Surviving The Shiny Happy People Cult (Part 4) - Bootcamp | Friends With Davey

The "Shiny Happy People" cult ruined the lives of thousands of people all over the world with intense brainwashing and exploitative tactics. Cult leader, Bill Gothard, established several programs designed to spread his gospel and control followers, including a paramilitary training center located in Big Sandy, TX.
Ex-cult members, Davey Jackson and Brice, take an in-depth look at two of Gothard's most notorious programs and share what it was like growing up in the Shiny Happy People cult.
PLUS Davey talks to the group who exposed years of scandals and coverups in the cult and forced Bill Gothard to leave in disgrace.
Listen to Davey Jackson and Producer Josh, livestreaming with a new friend every Wednesday at 8:00PM CST.
Podcast audio available on Spotify, iTunes, and all streaming platforms.

[@amberjewell3894]

All of this stuff is basically my life. The difference is that my dad was his own "Gothard" in our family, and he would never have stood for someone else superseding his authority. He was very abusive. We were missionaries and very isolated in a dangerous 3rd world country for years at a time: no friends, no school, no doctor. All the rules, the courtship, the submission to authority, etc. was extremely prevalent in our family. I thought it was normal because of our isolation and because, when we did come back to the U.S., we only visited churches that believed like us. I didn't get away from my dad until I was 29. It took a while for me to even realize what a cult my family was, and even longer to move out. I'm still unpacking a lot of it, but thankfully I'm finally in therapy and starting to figure things out.

[@ATiredMom]

So sorry your experienced this! Sounds like your dad went so far from anything truly guided by Christ. It's disgusting to see how people warp the Christian faith or any religion to abuse.

[@sandybowers5085]

@amberjewell3894 I am so sorry for your experience in this high control cult💔I have a similar situation but was married with eventually 6 children.(God decides the size of your family; according to Gothard’s teachings) It turned my already narcissistic ex husband into a full blown sociopath. Out now over 18 years now as are my grown children. Thank goodness. So much collateral damage done! But we are all fighting to live our lives as victors not victims! Ex barely involved in my adult children’s lives at this point💔Sad but I believe it is for the best.

[@TibiSum]

Big loves. So proud of 29-yr old you, finally freeing yourself from programming, spiritual abuse and a terrifying authority figure. As survivors, our experiences range, but coercive control patterns are very similar. We can't know what we could not learn while being isolated and gaslighted. Whenever we wake up from that, that's a point in time we can be proud of. So I am proud of you.

[@Doe808eoD]

I love how memories slowly come to when you allow yourself to talk about trauma. So inspirational.

[@sandybowers5085]

Absolutely! Just beginning to process this after years of denial or suppressed memories?This is hard to listen to but so important to process my PTSD. Plowing through ‼️‼️‼️

[@susanwragg937]

Oh my days! I’m only half way through this and I may have brain fog after doing a long nightshift but this Alert ‘group’ seriously smacks of what a certain dictator of Germany created with his ‘Youth’ squad! You’re both giving us such an amazingly big insight, far more than the documentary did. And massive thanks to producer Josh too xx

[@ninaschultz6922]

Ah, ze Hitlerjugend frrrom ze Germanland. But, oh mein Hitler äh Gott, nein, what an unfortunate misunderstanding; in ze Hitlerjugend, youth was not trained for military purpose at all - vink, vink ;) ze Hitlerjugend was merely a fun social club where ze youth went for camping trrrips and learnt some useful life skills as vell as discipline. Neeeeein military training, nein, nein 😮 zese are not ze V2s you're looking for. Irony & German off: In Germany, liberal leaning families will still not send their kids even to scouts because scout organisation can remind very much of HJ with strong hierarchic (almost military-like) structures, expectation of strong group loyalty and obedience by its members to authority and sometimes weird war-like outdoor group activities (capture the flag?).

[@daveyjaxx]

Oooo there are absolutely some eerie similarities! The brainwashing and conditioning, massive conferences, book/music/movie burnings, pomp and circumstance almost like a show of force. It’s all super weird!

[@twofeathersspiritual3454]

I was thinking more about the Sea Org in the Scientology sphere. Same para-military slant. Shudder....

[@warrenoja472]

I’m a newcomer. Been eating these episodes up! I’m from a family of 10 and my older siblings were in ATI at the Chicago location. My sister was a “Gothard girl” and wrote a testimony on Recovering Grace. My family was crazy but they seem less crazy the more I hear about IBLP.

[@felicityspyder]

same here minus the recovering grace part

[@daveyjaxx]

Please feel free to reach out to me on IG! Would love to hear more about your story 🙏🏻❤️

[@Tam5115]

It's hard to accept that there isn't any justice. The trauma that thousands of people experienced, and may never be healed from, and Gothard is out there continuing to lie, is an insult to all. It isn't right.

[@jamiemcvay130]

Gothard will get justice just maybe not in his lifetime.

[@daveyjaxx]

I can tell you that a lot of the information that’s come out and the fact that gothard was disgraced and removed from the cult and people finally understand what was really happening behind the scenes-that feels like justice to some degree. Obviously I would love to see more done for the victims and that’s why we’re still trying to get the word out.

[@summerlake356]

There are people starving and being tortured. There are teenagers routinely treated much worse than what is described here, outside the US and Europe. There are kids in families with severe addiction or abuse in the US. Reality check! These guys got overdosed on scripture and purity culture. That's it! Nobody was physically harmed. Mainstream society too, has culty aspects. I got sent to boarding school at 12 against my will. It was not a party. There was more. But we dont spend our lives whining about non-optimal circumstances from childhood. We learn and move on.

[@user-px4mp6lz3o]

I am watching your whole series on this in order. Excellent work exposing the cult. I was introduced to Gothards teachings in 1978 with Character Setches. Raised a daughter of an independent Pentecostal preacher. Lots of cult stuff. I've written on christian dominionism for years trying to wake people up.

[@sandybowers5085]

Do you have a blog or KZbin channel? Would be interested in your story

[@elisabethshepherd9204]

Oh man…I was there too at that conference. The evangelist that died was Micky Bonner. His last words were something like, “You Must be broken!” Then he pounded the podium and fell hard and died instantly, I think! I was so terrified!

[@daveyjaxx]

It was definitely a shock and I had blocked that memory until literally last week…crazy!

[@nathanjohnson6971]

I heard you say you only went to the Knoxville conference one time. My family went to Knoxville just one time. I thought what are the chances that we were there at the same time. Then you mentioned the guy dying on stage! We were totally there at the same time! That is a memory I will never forget... I still remember the sound of his last exhale.

[@christymarsh3363]

I was at this Knoxville ! Bryce I remember you being there too, I went with OKC CF! E staff without my family that year to be slave labor at stokley 🥵 hall for the new program!

[@girlycat180]

I appreciate this series so much, another amazing episode as always. You are great conversationalists and you are so brave to speak out and expose this cult! Looking forward to the next one!

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for the support and love 🙏🏻❤️

[@-c3202]

The reveal of the binder was more dramatic than anything in the marvel cinematic universe

[@daveyjaxx]

Lololol we should have played some ominous music during the reveal 😂😂

[@laurenturner3578]

I remember discovering Recovering Grace in 2012 because a friend of mine had started insisting that the home church we grew up in had enacted all these crazy abusive things and I knew the incidents I had been present for had not occurred anything like she was describing. I felt like she was embellishing her experiences with something she was getting somewhere else. She mentioned Recovering Grace and I went and read and was horrified. I think it took me several days to really process what I was reading. It seems my friend had some really bad things happen in her family (even years after they had left and were going to a conventional church, it turned out) and decided to transfer the blame to the little home church instead of her parents and the church they attended for twenty years afterward. But I knew why she could do that because of how things had gone down with so many families as described on Recovering Grace. She decided to jump on the train, which was easy to do because there were several common elements, like homeschooling, family businesses centered around construction, biblical worldview, etc. Reading more about what happened with many involved Gothard families explained a lot of what I saw that was puzzling in several other families I grew up with that had a lot of trouble. I knew they had been interested in a lot of the IBLP material but I did not realize what effects that involvement was having. It still makes me sad. But after the first shock I was grateful that there were enough people who had taken the time and courage to make the problems known.

[@daveyjaxx]

It’s really the underlying ideology that created this environment for abuse, especially within the family. I’m not surprised your friend associated it with the home church because that’s probably where a lot of it started for her. Absolutely tragic to hear these types of stories but I hope it saves someone else from having to go through the same thing 🙏🏻❤️

[@lavenderbluemama953]

Thank you for these, so informative! I feel like I was "lucky" that my parents only attended two seminars & then probably couldn't afford any more. I had enough creepy-ass abuse shit to deal with in my uber Southern Baptist home without adding fuel to the fire. I remember reading my mom's big red book as a teenager & thinking, "Yeah, but what if the devil already lives under your umbrella & is your authority figure?" I guess my Church Every Time The Doors Open father didn't feel like sharing his "eyetrap" daughter with anyone else... Shudder. I do have a real question... any insight on what Gothard is currently promoting on his website with the Embassy University courses? It sounds even more off the rails than usual... like regurgitation of the seminar, but packaged as a "degree." It also sounds like he's trying to appeal to "new age" type potential participants, instead of already churched people. Fresh blood, maybe? It makes it sound like he's had some kind of "new" epiphany, since being ousted. WTH?! Hey, Bill, it's time to extinguish your incense stick, my delusional dude. I think your messages from God are actually hallucinations. Leave the smoke & fire to Moses & Lucifer, please.

[@daveyjaxx]

“What if the devil already lives under your umbrella” 😓 This is exactly why this cult was so dangerous and toxic. There was no recourse if your “authority” was evil. You either had to “cry out” which would just get you in more trouble, or suffer through it as “trials and tribulations.” There was no protection or help let alone justice. I’m so sorry for what you went through ❤️ I’ve been monitoring Gothard’s website and social media activity pretty closely and we’ll be talking about what we’ve found more in Episode 5. 🙏🏻❤️

[@QuantitativeMethods]

Thank you guys and gals for speaking so openly, rationally, and fairly about your experiences. I grew up Mormon, served a 2-year mission in Guatemala, got married in a Mormon temple, etc… Hearing different, but very relatable, experiences that others had around the same time as I had many of my own experiences is so helpful. My wife and I left the Mormon church about 4 years ago. For many years, I knew something was deeply off, but it took hearing from others both in and out of the ”Mormon diaspora” who were fair and honest about their experiences (as opposed to those who have been so hurt and are still so deeply in their feelings that all they can really express is anger and pain - no judgement btw on those people) to really start to process what I was feeling and start to deconstruct everything. Not everything about the Mormon church was evil and awful. I had some wonderful experiences and some great leaders, mentors, and friends. There was also a lot of really awful stuff and I had some horrific experiences that were traumatic at best and criminal at worst. Worse yet, I’m a straight white male, so I experienced what it was like to play with the best hand of cards one could have dealt to them in that church, just as you gents point out about your experiences in IBLP. Thanks again so much from a fellow Texan and cult survivor.

[@RebeccaJoyner]

Can confirm that ALERT was the “fireman calendar” of the IBLP girls. The dream was to get with the ALERT guy of your dreams and have 7 boys that would also go through ALERT and marry the EXCEL girl like you were. I was at EXCEL and a team leader had brothers in ALERT and two came to visit her. The blushing was REAL for all of us girls. Lol. My sister did the CF!E stuff for a while too. She did it in Australia. She did enjoy her time there.

[@daveyjaxx]

Fireman calendar of IBLP 😂😂😂😂 omg that’s a perfect analogy! And I wonder if your sister knew Brice?!

[@ninaschultz6922]

Ooooh you are making it sound very s**y, drool 😂 for sure! Maybe I should get into IBLP to get myself an ALERT hottie? Ah, oh no, wait, I am 41 and won't be sufficiently fertile anymore to pop out those 7 kiddos, just realising 😮 nooooo

[@RebeccaJoyner]

Possibly. I know she was there fall of ‘02 to spring of ‘03 at least. She went for a year and then again for six months. Cannot remember the other year. Lol

[@RebeccaJoyner]

@@ninaschultz6922 lol they were untouchable though. Lol. You can’t overtly flirt, so you just had to wear your navy and white and pray they’d notice you. Lol

[@ninaschultz6922]

@@RebeccaJoyner oh my, so I would be an insufficiently fertile, unruly prostitute in IBLP terms, wouldn't I? Well, life is life, I guess ;)

[@merricat3025]

Love how he calls it Shiny, Happy People Cult

[@susanbarackman-artist7670]

A good christian man will act in a loving way towards wife and family no matter if he is under patriarchy complementarianism or mutuality whereas pat/comp teachings give an evil narcissist man exactly what he needs to practive his evil ways. but put that same man under mutuality and he will immediately be identified as the wolf in the fold

[@sandybowers5085]

Yes!!!!

[@BabydollTanner223]

Keep it coming, I can’t get enough of the information

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@SwedeProof]

Thank you SO much, guys, for sharing your incredibly disturbing experiences. Your humour makes it palatable. My immigrant family is compassionate, informed, and liberal. Inexplicably, one sister morphed over into extreme right-wing Christianity, and has rejected us -- especially me -- as heretics and radicals, even denying she's an immigrant. I've tried reaching out for years, to no avail. Seriously sounds like she's been brainwashed. Your podcast is helping me to understand just how bizarre and frightening these extremists really are. I'm very grateful that you're both leading happier, productive, and meaningful lives, and helping others like me to gain more insight into this disturbing cult.

[@sandybowers5085]

My heart goes out to you @SwedeProof Sending prayers and positivity for your sister to get out ‼️‼️‼️

[@elizabethwillis885]

Some of the young adult Duggars and Bateses have made their own group of “disaster relief” that looks similar to ALERT. It’s called Medic Corps. And it’s all adult men who grew up in IBLP and some of them went through ALERT when they were younger.

[@daveyjaxx]

Are they also indoctrinating these guys or is it more of a volunteer organization?

[@elizabethwillis885]

@@daveyjaxx it’s more of a volunteer organization. But I imagine they are proselytizing while they are “helping” people.

[@mienafriggstad3360]

FYI occasionally girls/ ladies do participate in Medic Corps. Janna Duggar has. Currently John David Duggar is the head of it; the office is on one of his/ his dad's property. According to Katie Joy at Without a Crystal Ball

[@patrickpatterson3775]

I was there for that conference where the guy died on stage. Former cult member here checking in 🙋‍♂️. I've got some stories from those days.

[@stacywilliams1624]

Great episode, looking forward to the next one!

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️

[@merricat3025]

Me too. I never heard of Davey before. I watched him after watching Shiny Happy People ( great docu that needs season2) He and Brice do fantastic job. I found what little I knew about IBLP frightening. I was right. This group needs to be continued to be exposed. Great videos. Hope he does more and brings on ex members

[@TibiSum]

I've been thanking a few of you folks speaking up about cults. I just want to say that for people like me, who's families were part of "cool subcultures", no religion, but def major communal narcissism, it has been so helpful to see these dynamics uncovered. My main abuser was able to make me proxy in her fictitious disorder enacted on another by isolating my family and really only having their cool art/music/activist friends around, which we presented a perfect family image to, so they didn't know we were being abused. I was groomed to perform disability so my mother could be seen as this amazing caregiver, which lead to me being predated on by dangerous men later. I was thrown out at 15 because my family was super strict and I was rebelling by not always holding the line with the perfect image. Not a bad kid. I did nothing, really. I was just a tiny, little bit, myself. Lived on the street from 15-19, a pretty similar trajectory to what happened to youth who were "in rebellion". We weren't in a cult and my parents were not religious, but the coercive control operating in my home followed very similar patterns, with the authority in our case being matriarchal. We had an absolute shit ton of totally random rules, such as going to bed at the hour of the grade we were in and being forced to be silent for hours in bed while it was still light out, just anything weird that threw us off of the individuation process healthy kids get to go through. Sounds like nothing, but lying there being quiet so we wouldn't get spanked with a wooden spoon, not allowed to read. It was these really, really long weird nights. Anyway, my abuse was very isolating because it's rare (I'm talking about the Munchhausen's here) and I have to go to podcasts like this to see anything even remotely like I went through. Being a street kid was also an unusual childhood experience that I can't ever truly get others to see. So I am grateful to have access to these topics that are so close to mine that I can feel less alone. I'm also a harm reduction worker who walks beside users of substances in my work, because I know someone loving you as you are, not as you are expected to be, literally saves lives, Davey. I would have walked beside you if you had needed housing, a sammy, someone to talk to. Substance use actually saved my life because it got me through my highly unsafe and lonely teenage years. I was struggling with my mental health and probably would have done something permanently unfortunate without the respite substances provide. I'm grateful I had them to help me process when I could not have processed on my own and now I can process without them, proof that we are not bad people, just living with sustained psychological injury from before the prefrontal cortex had completed development. A language-less pain. The stuff around substances, such as contact with the justice system or infection are terrible harms. The drink or whatever themselves are not so much the problem. The problem is not having a childhood and not knowing what safety actually feels like. The problem is isolation and alienation. I live with DID and CPTSD from being outside of pro social determinants of health through all key childhood developmental stages. This stuff is so real. So real. I believe you. I believe all of you. I was thrown in jail for 4 days at 20 and was placed in solitary "for my own safety". It took me a long time to recover from that experience alone, in a sea of traumas that can only be understood if your childhood was a long-seeming, dangerous road. Big loves to all you survivors of cults. I totally see you and believe you.

[@randmmitch]

Love your podcast! I have known about Gothard and IBLP via the Duggars for a long time, but I had no idea how widespread and harmful it was. I have a request. Can Brice speak to my perception that some of the men who worked at IBLP headquarters seem like they'd be more comfortable in an LGBTQ setting were they not in IBLP and raised in a more progressive environment.

[@daveyjaxx]

Oh that’s a really interesting question, I’ll definitely bring it up with him! Thank you for the support 🙏🏻❤️

[@debrastrayer8600]

Great show as always.

[@daveyjaxx]

❤️❤️

[@lilyduvenick2139]

You guys are doing great work ❤

[@daveyjaxx]

🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️❤️

[@grainnelambert881]

Another brilliant video. I hope you are all doing okay and fighting through life xxx

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much! Life is great and the universe provides 🙏🏻❤️

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you. Watching from Alaska.

[@LaceyA-rm4vi]

I grew up in ATI with IBLP material. I even worked at a training center for a year, it was insane. I'm a strong Christian but I had serious issues with IBLP's twist on the Bible. By the time my younger brothers came along, our family had pulled out of the program. However, my brothers were interested in ALERT when they heard about it and they each went through Basic Training after high school. Totally there own idea and without being under any pressure from ATI or Gothard. Actually now, though ALERT is sharing the campus with IBLP, it's not under the management of IBLP. Recruits join up from all over, my brothers said most of their team mates had never heard of IBLP. The were there for the experience and loved it, even though it was crazy hard. The Christian aspect of it, including memorizing scripture, was a highlight for them since the are Christians. There was no teaching included from IBLP or they would've left, my brothers can't stand IBLP or anything of Gothards. It seems unfair to me that you're bashing ALERT without having any current graduates there to share their experiences. ALERT today seems to be a great experience for some guys. My brothers went on to use their skills in law enforcement and airplane mechanics. They still hang out with friends they made at ALERT, it's like they're boot camp buddies. Not everyone in ALERT comes out brainwashed or miserable! 🙄

[@greenleafgardens]

I saw an ALERT guy out in the wild a while ago when I was shopping. He had his ALERT hat and khakis with a tucked in polo, and I was wearing short shorts and a tank top so I felt bad “defrauding” him 😂

[@shortybarnesyanik]

I remember when I flew from CVG (Cincinnati) airport down to Big Sandy for my stint down there. I’ll never forget getting off the plane and two ALERT guys were there to pick me up in full uniform!! lol Everyone in the airport were looking at us like they were trying to figure out who I was. I was like a celebrity or something! 😂 It turns out that was the best part of that trip.

[@laurengarcia1023]

I really appreciate this. I always heard about Alert but didn't know what it entailed. I saw an interview with Dr. Romani who interviewed cult expert Janja Lalich on the channel Navigating Narcissism called what is a cult? It was so interesting since she came from a left-wing political cult in the 80s. So the ideology couldn't be more different, but the tactics are all the same. It might be really helpful for ex IBLP people because they discuss the similarities in narcissistic relationships and cults since so often toxic families were wrapped up in IBLP. I just came from LDS and regular evangelical churches. And I found it eye-opening in a lot of ways

[@daveyjaxx]

The tactics for keeping followers in line are always so similar regardless of the cult’s actual beliefs. That’s why it should be so easy to identify problematic organizations but people still end up falling for it 😓

[@laurengarcia1023]

@@daveyjaxx Exactly, she said there was even a dog training cult. They can be anywhere for anything

[@TheTrailOfDestruction]

You two are fricken awesome 🤘🏻thank you so much for sharing your stories and giving ‘em hell. We know they’re watching 😂

[@leannedietrich7884]

Can't wait to see tonight's episode

[@daveyjaxx]

👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻❤️

[@felicityspyder]

What's the story behind the library at BigSandy. I heard there was some metaphysical shit going on above the roof when ALERT moved down and had to summon the demons out or something. It really creeped me out. And there's a secret tunnel behind a bookshelve in the lobby area on the east side i think. Oh, and that room (same building) that was completely tiled and was, I guess, used for private baptizing. That campus was haunted af. And what was with the prayer closets in the barracks.

[@brittlebricks10]

Tell us more

[@daveyjaxx]

Whaaaaat?!! I haven’t heard any of this stuff but I was out of the cult by the end of 2001 so they’d only had Big Sandy for a couple years and that point. It used to be “Ambassador College” with Worldwide Church and they would host their “Feast of Tabernacles” every year so who knows what weird history is involved there

[@ninaschultz6922]

Oooh, secret tunnel? And why/how did ALERT supposedly cause a demonic infestation; military rituals gone bad, or what? This sounds so outlandish and specific at the same time that it could actually be true. Please elaborate ❤😮

[@felicityspyder]

@@daveyjaxx Yeah, I think I was creeped out by the previous owners of Big Sandy wearing robes and stuff and didn't know how to process it in comparison to ALERT/IBLP because there was so many similarities (e.g., circumcision). I was only on campus at most for 4-5 weeks, and I'm not the best source for sharing all of the haunted stories at Big Sandy. Thank you for doing these episodes - really helps process things since watching SHP.

[@felicityspyder]

@@ninaschultz6922 pm me if you have any *specific* questions. FYI, I am not into trauma sharing.

[@ninaschultz6922]

Once again, great episode 😊 Davey, you lead conversations exceptionally well: very empathic, emotionally & otherwise intelligent, you give much space to your guests and are very respectful & tolerant in your messaging. Haha, I also enjoy your Non-IBLP episodes when potty-mouth and dirty topics are more prevalent - your skills show all the same in these regular episodes. Really fun content 😅 Cudos on having spoken about why you think Trump may win 2024 election during one of your more recent podcasts. Not everybody in US dares to speak publicly about politics in fear of polarisation of viewership, and not many can speak about politics without polarising. Very good example imo of your strong abilities. You seem to be born to talk to and connect people, keep up the good work and reach for the sky 🎉 (Also, thanks to Josh & Bruce, naturally, for the consistently high quality of this podcast & IBLP series)

[@daveyjaxx]

I really appreciate this thank you so much 🙏🏻❤️ couldn’t do it without Brice and Josh though!

[@toks1c]

I watched every cult episode of yours, sorry you went through this crazy shit.

[@mikescrazycomedy7362]

I live in south east Texas and you are great. Keep on the good work. Right now I am trying to get subscribers and work on videos. Love your channel.

[@kathrynshaffer7809]

When is the live show? Or more details? My siblings and I grew up in this cult. One of my siblings lives in Austin, and we all knew John Cornish back in the day as well. We would be interested in attending

[@leannedietrich7884]

July 26th

[@daveyjaxx]

Yes! Wednesday, July 26 in Austin, TX. Tickets will go live this weekend and I’ll post the link on the community page and and my social media. I’ll also give you more details in the next episode 🙏🏻❤️

[@pollsfriend]

I know I keep commenting comparing Teen Challenge with the various IBLP programs but here we go again. They also found a way to get their Christian fundamentalism into public schools and other government run places such as 30 day rehabs. We had a program called “Stay Sharp” that was allegedly an anti-drug program such as D.A.R.E. (We all know how well that worked out) but hidden inside were the fundamentalist Christian philosophies. We also had two versions of the Stay Sharp program-one for youth groups that had all the explicitly Christian stuff, and one for schools and other places that had the explicit Christian stuff hidden. But the ultimate goal was to get “secular” people into our fundamentalist Christian rehab program. The parallels I keep finding are wild to me. Another thing is that we had a long list of “character qualities” that the guys had to memorize, along with the opposite quality and the Bible Verse that went with it. I’ve recently discovered there is eerie overlap between the Teen Challenge character qualities and IBLP character qualities.

[@daveyjaxx]

Hilarious they called it “stay sharp” when “sharps” or “points” is slang for needles used to do intravenous drugs 😂😂😂😂 Definitely agree that teen challenge has a lot of similarities but I don’t think it was quite a strict in terms of forbidding interaction between men and women.

[@merricat3025]

I would be really interested in seeing indept look at Teen Challenge. When I first heard about them thought great something that works but more I heard the more I don't trust it. I always knew I would never want to go there. They seemed like pushing their religious beliefs, not real treatment

[@pollsfriend]

@@daveyjaxx They were very very strict about male/female relationships. Like beyond strict. In order to even think about getting into a relationship you had to be there for at least two years. And men and women in the program could be kicked out just for talking to each other. If you were a male in the program you could only speak to females when spoken to and then it had to be a female staff member. So after a year as a student, and a year as an intern, it loosened up a little, but not much. And just being there for two years was no guarantee you could “start talking” to someone even if you asked. If you wanted to date someone you had to approach to director do the center you were at and talk to him. He would then talk to the woman’s pastor, family, and whoever her umbrella do authority was and vet her. Then you would be given permission to “talk” and there were parameters even around that- Once the talking stage was over and a relationship was approved they used the courtship model. Never any time alone. Dates always chaperoned. Very little time spent alone together until engagement/marriage. Oh, it was strict. Also the point about the “sharps” is funny and something that never occurred to me, even as a former IV drug user. Keep the videos coming they’re great and I can identify very very much as both a PK that was raised very conservative and going to a conservative holiness school from k-12. They are a different flavor of Fundie.

[@pollsfriend]

@@merricat3025 I can tell you anything you want to know. I was part of the organization for five years.

[@chrisharris9643]

I'm a bit confused. I grew up 8n Assembly of God and hearing about David Wilkerson and teen challenge. ......theres one in my city.....they've been to our church multiple times. I've read David's book. ...I was under the impression the guys choose to be there and that the recovery rate is like 80 or 85 percent?

[@marczumhagen4149]

I remember when Micky Bonner died. That was a wild night. People thought it was a dramatic part of his speech.

[@daveyjaxx]

I was telling my producer after we recorded this episode that I specifically remember a guy behind saying “he’s been struck by the Holy Spirit.” Absolutely insane.

[@bingersinger1517]

Yep Micky Bonner! Very traumatic for my young family.

[@debrastrayer8600]

Hello again from Eastridge

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for watching 🙏🏻❤️

[@goodkarna]

Do you have your Google alerts set up for Got-Hard OBITUARY?

[@daveyjaxx]

Lololol I probably have some news alerts set up for cult related updates 😂

[@alwaysAF4ever]

Who was the Alert group that spend time in Blue Ridge, GA?

[@daveyjaxx]

I’m not sure actually…

[@summerspicer6153]

What are we doing today brain? Same thing we do everyday pinkie, take over the world.

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

This is Dominionism. Seven Mountains.

[@gaylemacdonell104]

Oh yeah, guys at our church went to ALERT. When they came back they were totally different people.

[@salvatorelongo5994]

I really grew up in all this stuff too, taught Childrens insitutute, did ALERT, went to Journey of the Heart, Student Sessions etc.. I want to say (based on my experiences as having been a friend of Gothard and his family, and still friends with some of his family to this day) IBLP was the PRODUCT of Fundamental Baptist Christianity. Yes they spun things in different directions for sure, but the root of all of this control and standard setting and women oppression stems from that. I have helped so many people come out of that swamp of a mess, having attended Baptist bible college, getting kicked out for being gay, dealing with sexual abuse (as a male but not by Gothard himself) at IBLP HQ, among other things, the root of all of this is high control religion of which Fundamental Baptist religion is. And yes I am still a Christian :) Keep speaking out guys you all are saying the exact same things I have been saying for years and years and years since 2014. We joined IBLP back when the Knoxville conferences were split up into regional conferences (2004), and I spent many many days in the Indianapolis Training Center. Remember how slow those elevators were? Peace out bros you guys rock.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thank you so much for this 🙏🏻❤️ would love to talk to you more about your experience so feel free to DM me!

[@nathanieldabney225]

I have a million stories about alert 😝 they couldn’t break me. Lol.

[@daveyjaxx]

Dude I’d love to talk to you about your experience! Glad you made it out 🙏🏻❤️

[@lindasoderberg9477]

Did Josh Duggar attend the Life Focus program?

[@daveyjaxx]

I have no idea honestly. I highly doubt it because that program was a complete mess.

[@nurserobin]

I know 3 or 4 Duggar boys went to alert as well as many of the Bates boys. These boys have formed Medicorps ... this company they formed is very suspect. The Bates had a shrine in their house dedicated to the Confederates with a Confederate flag. These guys all have very dangerous ideology. The Girls in both families went to Journey of the Heart. I do know the boys attended other Gothard stuff too. The Bates girls traveled around the world with Gothard. These family have continued the hate ideology as the kids now adults, who are raising more abused,brainwashed kids.

[@mienafriggstad3360]

As far as I know; from listen to Katie Joy at Without a Crystal Ball... Josh didn't attend that or any progams; other then the conferences and the homeschooling program. He only did "counciling" and "mission work" because he needed to be available for filming; also to help his dad and other politicians with political campaigns.

[@debburd2903]

Didn’t one of the Duggar sons go through the alert program?

[@taiwanaliens1675]

You've been penetrated by the arrows, Dude. lol

[@daveyjaxx]

😂😂😂

[@tj8114]

Hearing about ALERT, is anyone else getting Hitler Youth vibes?

[@daveyjaxx]

A lot of the same tactics and pageantry for sure

[@audra6015]

I wonder what the correlation is between police that went through Alert and was involved in a shooting or other dirty cop shit.

[@daveyjaxx]

Honestly I think a lot do the guys that came out of ALERT and wanted to serve in the actual military or police force were good dudes that had just been brainwashed and exploited by the cult.

[@c.w.johnsonjr6374]

Chaplain Burch would lead the recruits in a chant Burch: Faith is justified by? Recruits: Works, sir! Burch: And faith without works is? Recruits: Dead, sir! Burch: And anything not done out of faith is? Recruits: Sin, sir! Burch: And are you going to prove your faith?! Recruits: Yes, sir. If a recruit was failing in something the cadre would tell them that it was because they were trying to do it out of their own strength and in their pride they were resisting God’s grace. Yet they were also told if they asked God for help in a task and didn’t give it 110% effort they were shackling their fists in God’s face saying they didn’t believe He would answer their prayers. I wonder how many recruits injured themselves thinking that God’s grace was merited by their works. If that’s not a cult, I don’t know what is.

[@daveyjaxx]

Thanks for being so active in the live chat last night answering questions and giving additional insight! This is the kind of stuff that people won’t truly understand unless they’ve been through it 🙏🏻❤️

[@ninaschultz6922]

Classic "double bind" method which is facilitated by any good leader of a destructive cult.

[@c.w.johnsonjr6374]

@@daveyjaxx one of the messed up things about ALERT was that despite Gothard’s teachings on not gossiping the Academy created a snitch culture. Every few weeks the other recruits were given forums in which they would evaluate the other recruits and turn them over to the cadre. The cadre would then read the forums to the individual recruits and not give them a chance to confront their accusers. So much about going to each other in private and exhorting each other as individuals.

[@StandFirmApologetics]

It would also be good to give the proceeds to the documentary “until the truth” they still need money to finish the documentary.

[@daveyjaxx]

I would LOVE to get in touch with them!

[@rteegar78]

Am I the only one wondering who the speaker who died was? Don’t leave us hanging!

[@daveyjaxx]

I think someone else in the comments said it was an evangelist named Mickey Bonner 🙏🏻❤️

[@Standownevil]

I still cringe when I see bread being fed to birds 🦢

[@daveyjaxx]

Ok this is a new one???

[@lizajane2971]

Like in Mary Poppins? "Feed the birds and what've you got? Fat birds!" 😂

[@phyllisphilp9014]

????

[@Standownevil]

@@daveyjaxx Bill Gothard taught not to feed anything BREAD or wheat related :) Who are you? If you don’t know that YOU DON’t know Bill Gothard!

[@Standownevil]

@@daveyjaxx my friend NO that is a well documented fact! BILL SAID DO NOT FEED THE BIRDS BREAD PERIOD :) I agree! Tums or Rolaids! At least he was kind to the birds:) lol just a multi million dollar industry that got me to remarry my abusive husband to the detriment of my entire family!

[@RWorley3sl]

Id say watching a man die is a bad experiance.

[@daveyjaxx]

It was definitely intense and I had blocked it out for a long time just like a lot of the other memories I have associated with IBLP

[@Crusaders76]

GROW UP AND MOVE ON 🥰

[@daveyjaxx]

I think that’s easier said than done for a lot of people who have been through this kind of trauma. Maybe “heal well and grow strong” is a better mantra

[@kirielbranson4843]

They have grown up but why would they move on? I am grateful that people like Bryce and Davey are active. These groups have goals of influencing government and society. These groups oppress members and abuse children. People who are active telling their story and interviewing others help keep us on the outside aware of where influences to laws and culture is coming from. They help those leaving or thinking of leaving do what you said and move on.

[@darreljohnson5416]

Those shirts and pants are pretty tight on those guys showing off a lot of arm, muscles and butt muscles