Sustainable fuels; what are they & are e-fuels better for the planet than running an EV or PHEV?

In this video I look at the different impacts on CO2 emission levels when driving a BMW i4 full electric car, a Range Rover P400e PHEV, or a classic car fueled by Coryton Sustainable fuel. Find out more here: coryton.com/sustain/
This video was created with the support of:
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bit.ly/Magnitude_Finance-HG
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www.ctek.com
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[@ElectricClassicCars]

Lot's of things to correct here. You didn't add the gCO2/kWh for the electricity in the hybrid Range Rover, but you did for the BMW. You used a spot value (i.e. what it was that moment) for the carbon intensity (for a region you don't live in, even though you said you did live there) of 400g/kWh, when the average for 2021 is 317g/kWh for that region (which you don't live in), or 181g/kWh for the UK average. Most EV owners charge up overnight when electricity is cheaper (for me it's 7.5p/kWh) and the grid is less carbon intensive. You complain about the weight of the BMW but didn't mention the colossal weight of the Range Rover. But the biggest thing you chose to ignore is that it takes up to 10 times more electricity to produce the synthetic fuels compared to just putting that electricity straight into an EV.

[@markotrieste]

Excellent points. Actually, a Range Rover to take your kid to school is the symbol of energy waste.

[@TheWinstn60]

Also its not just CO2 sustainable fuel produces Methane 100 times worse than CO2 for global warming and Nitrous Oxide lovely stuff

[@barchetta06]

also no mention of comparable maintenance costs and incurred CO2 from that. Of course the recharging network has to be improved and fed with ever more sustainable energy but it will .... and recycling of batteries, after their million miles will happen.

[@ElectricClassicCars]

@@grandtourerpt It's worse than that, he says 'where we live' and uses the figures for East Midlands DNO. He doesn't even live there, he lives in the Southern region. Later on he goes on to say that Birmingham and Oxford are also in the East Midlands DNO region, they're not, they're in the West Midlands and Southern region respectively. At best this is innocent incompetence at worst this is intentional misinformation. Very poor......

[@LukeNielsen1]

Thank you for pointing all of these out! Absolutely hit the nail on the head

[@UAPJedi]

Such a great level headed channel from a confirmed petrolhead that’s willing to talk about and not demonise alternative fuels and EVs.👍

[@chunkymonkey3594]

Agreed. I know I'm getting old but I consider Mr Metcalf an antidote to the silliness we're increasingly exposed to.

[@LCOF]

I’m not paying three or four times the price of fuel today for a PR fuel that’s solely designed to maintain the direct connection between the customer and the forecourt. I’m all about severing that link and cutting ties with them altogether. Imagine thinking it’s good to grow a crop half way round the world, harvest and refine it ,which is an intensive chemical process, then transport that across the globe in bunker fuel powered tankers. And after all that I’m pretty sure they expect some generous subsidies from governments. No bueno El Capitan. This is a boutique fuel for a very small handful of people and not really an answer to anything. Oil companies are desperate to keep their infrastructure and revenue streams relevant.

[@sq1rlsqu4d]

@@LCOF I agree with your point about transport, but Harry never once claimed that this e-fuel is anything other than a means for him to keep his fleet of classics going without using fossil fuels. Boutique fuel maybe, but better than no fuel at all. If only a small handful of people can afford to use it on a regular basis then so be it. I'll be sticking to my diesel smoker for a while yet (after a few fantastic years in a BMW i3 that no longer suited my daily drive), but then again I couldn't give a damn about the environment.

[@JStryker7]

@@LCOF ooof. Forgetting about battery production? Batteries are still nowhere near as energy dense.

[@joemeatball1080]

The facts do not support electric cars. If the rose colored glasses are taken off, and the real cost of building these pieces of woke crap is studied…then only the most rabid and purposefully ignorant continues supporting it

[@darrenbootland2316]

As a classic car owner, I'll be watching Coryton's product with great interest

[@VolkerHett]

Just one caveat. When you factor in the CO2 from electricity production, shouldn't you factor in the CO2 from fuel production, too? In your calculation you have the CO2 emitted from the exhaust only. So well to wheel for the EV and local emissions for the hybrid and ICE only. This being said, for ICE enthusiasts eFuels will be an alternative. Probably very expensive. Even in Chile they have to recoup the cost for wind turbines :D

[@adamfry1125]

It's always conveniently missed off along with mpg claimed book figures suddenly being so accurate you can calculate fairly from them!

[@tbrdoescinema]

LOL, surely not? Fuel just magically appears in a tank doesn't it?

[@Pique147]

@@tbrdoescinema I want your tank. It magically disappears from mine!

[@NigelsModellingBench]

@@adamfry1125 agree 100%. Back in 2005 I needed a very economical car to do a long commute, so I bought a Citroen C2 Diesel. Claimed 78mpg. I ended up trading in for a Skoda Fabia VRS for the better fuel economy. The C2 averaged about 45mpg in reality!!

[@andrewlarking7492]

My own calculations including total CO2 cost to pump still doesn’t make sense. It’s close but not there yet.

[@willa5612]

Must include CO2 cost to produce traditional fuels when comparing cost to run an EV and the CO2 impact of filling it with electricity. Great first insights into this important matter but to be a fair comparison, metrics should incorporate CO2 impact of getting petrol to the pump.

[@Munkenba]

Totally agree. There’s a lot of talk about how electricity is produced but little about the damage done by oil rigs, oceanic supertankers, refinery facilities and delivery infrastructure (Not to mention what happens when any one of those points fail). That’s a like for like conversation. If we aren’t willing to dive into that kind of depth across the board then yes, evs are as zero emission as is worth mentioning within the typical remit of a car review.

[@jjturner]

Production adds 30% to fossil fuel CO2. If you add this to the RR and the CO2 from the grid as most would have, its around 250g CO2/km

[@FOX11GUY]

@@Munkenba because that falls under EV infrastructure as well.

[@Munkenba]

@@FOX11GUY oil rigs, supertankers and oil refineries?

[@siraff4461]

Thats fair enough so long as those metrics also take into account getting the fuel (gas, coal - whatever) to the power station too. Oh and how about the losses transfering that power between power station and vehicle? I'm all for including everything for ice's but that has to go both ways. It would be nice to see some genuine figures for overall impact starting with nothing and ending with the cars end of life then averaging impact per mile based on that. I have a feeling the least harmful would be something like an i3 or Yaris hybrid (small initial impact, minimal electric and fuel usage, long life) but I also have a feeling the most may well be something like an early Leaf thanks to their overly short lifespan. Whatever it is I would love to see a simple list because when you ammortise it over average mileage it really is fairly straight forward.

[@TBS8431]

Much like most people when comparing electric vs fossil emissions, you've included the CO2 created to generate the electricity, but not included the CO2 created to get up the fuel, refine it, transport it, the ships and helicopters travelling to and from rigs etc etc etc.

[@wolfiestreet6899]

Not much more is it really.

[@siraff4461]

He also missed out the fuel the power station needs and the losses from sending the electricity through the grid to the chargers and then the cars. When its a few percent at each change over then upto 10% charging losses that adds up pretty quickly.

[@Dave.S.TT600]

@@siraff4461 yes exactly

[@Gdank72]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6C5o3x-mMmroKM

[@philhealey449]

@@siraff4461 Think the whole process right through for the lifecycles of alternatives and it is all incredibly complex, but I suspect a truism is that the lifecycle CO2 payback for renewable electricity solutions is about 2 years. The case for running old cars indefinitely with sustainable fuels seems very good compared to frequently changed EVs that are unlikely to sensibly survive beyond their first battery lifecycle.

[@matevo2286]

Love you to tell the fully charge show, there so blinkered where your open and explain things so much better

[@dublinboxnut7919]

Harry thank you for all your videos on both channels, they transport me to another place 👍

[@seberdee8824]

Thank you Harry for pointing out what i have been saying for years we need to make sure things last ,Cars washing machines , everything ! Things used to last ,now things are designed to last a couple of years and then you replace it .more carbon is produced in manufacturing than standard use

[@WayneFoxUK]

I think those same manufacturers may argue it's in our best interests to have longer lasting equipment... it means they make less money, and let's be honest, that's all it's ever been about.

[@dstarley]

I would encourage checking out the "Right to Repair" laws passed by the EU - there's some progress here (but a long way to go). I would like to just caveat your finally statement in that it really depends on the situation whether manufacturing or operational carbon is higher (I recommend reading the Volvo C40 life cycle assessment that Harry references in the video for more information on this). For cars, if it is only used for say 50,000 miles then scrapped yes the manufacturing emissions will be a huge proportion of the overall; however if it is used for 150,000 miles then suddenly the answer looks very different.

[@amilton2128]

The problem is old appliances like washing machines fridges freezers us vastly more electricity than new ones.

[@nealm1814]

Look at the cars that are "lasting" in Harry's garage. Not exactly the equivalent of a Ford Focus are they?

[@tonyedgecombe6631]

Modern cars are far more reliable than the stuff we had to put up with from thirty years ago. Not only that but they are more economical as well. If I was still driving my first car it would get half the mpg of my wife's modern car.

[@procatprocat9647]

Depreciation is one of the biggest costs of car ownership. It's still so commonly ignored. Manufacturing new cars is also incredibly damaging to the environment. Lifecycle assessments are never discussed because they discorage new car sales.

[@maxflight777]

The slowest depreciation seems to be either a “quality classic “ such as an E Type , or any Tesla !

[@ixifutureproof9286]

@@maxflight777 because Tesla control the resale value.

[@sh-hg4eg]

Don't forget that Ice can be used indefinitely with simple repairs whereas EVs have a short lifespan and then have to be replaced.

[@procatprocat9647]

@@sh-hg4eg I strongly disagree with your claim. To use ice indefinitely, engines, gearboxes, fuel system etc all need to be gradually replaced. To use electric drive lines indefinitely, motors, batteries, and invertors have to be replaced. There is no fundamental difference!

[@ruschman96]

Harry, I applaud your big picture mindset that doesn’t rely on trends but rather utilizes mindful thoughts based on real world effects. Excellent work. Let’s spread this reasonable thought process. Thank you for the videos.

[@nt5919]

Briliant Harry - ongoing and unfolding and thanks for your efforts

[@Wisesap]

I very much look forward to your updates on sustainable fuels. I believe their is an AND when it comes to how we fuel our cars. Meaning, why can’t we have both? Electric and some sort of fuel for us classic and visceral Sri big enthusiasts.

[@ciaranwebb6871]

Exactly. Electric can work for a lot of people but for the minority where it's either way too expensive (ie no cheap overnight charging) or we have a fun ice car then let em coexist!

[@xBris]

Fossil fuels won't die out in the foreseeable future. I'm pretty sure we will still have gas stations in 50 years time. The problem with "sustainable" fuels however is, that they're just a fairly tale that doesn't work. Depending on how you produce your "sustainable" fuel, the process actually emits more carbon into the atmosphere than classic fossil fuels. It's pure greenwashing and I'm afraid Harry has completely fallen for it :(

[@ambivalentonion2620]

@@koma7252 very true it was never about the environment, the tightening of the grip against us and benefiting massive corporations in monopolising transport, too perfect

[@NeoJ4K3]

Exactly. There is room for both.

[@dyfnwalmoelmud8362]

This is all very well accept for the fact independent scientist say there is no man made climate change. Only dependent scientist say man made CO2 is causing climate change. It's a proven fact that electric cars are less eco friendly than petrol or diesel cars. This is not about the environment, it's about restricting the worlds resources to the likes of me and you. Communism in other words.

[@poppabear3664]

Hi Harry, Love the content and a good overview of the various fuel sources / Co2 emitters. One thing that is always overlooked is the affect that the deforestation often carried out to grow the ethanol producing crops has on net Co2 absorbtion. Forrest and jungle trees are said to be the lungs of the earth, their Co2 absorbtion is far greater than the short lived seed crops grown to produce “Green” fuels. Keep the vid’s coming,

[@barryphillips7327]

Correct! Finally someone talking SENSE!!

[@riley124]

The problem is further compounded when farmers receive tax breaks to grow such crops as fuel stocks. This is at a time when we need to use the land to feed humans and animals alike.

[@rcpmac]

Oversimplified and inaccurate

[@MdvK13979]

@@rcpmac well elaborate then

[@siraff4461]

@@rcpmac Go on then - whats innacurate? It may be very simplified but most people tend to agree that deforestation means less absorbed CO2. Of course you know better so lets hear it.

[@BigMacProDaddy]

Kudos Harry for being so tech savvy, love your channel

[@warwickritch]

Yes! Keep this up Harry. Very excited to see how you progress the fuels for classics. We should all be keeping the cars we have for longer like you say.

[@h.google]

An amazing thought provoking video Harry along with mind boggling stat's, so much so, that I'm going to have to have a sit down now ! Well done on your quest to find a classic car fuel for hopefully, everyone to enjoy? As they say "You're the man" 👍🏼

[@johnsmith1474]

Your mind was boggled by that? Really?

[@andrewhurstcars]

As with nearly all new cars, the biggest cost will be depreciation. Doesn’t matter how much free electricity you get, a £100k+ Range Rover will depreciate quite a lot over say 3 years (in a normal market).

[@chappy2121]

They don't want normal folk running round in cars they own. The only way people will have a car going forward will be to lease

[@WarrenF]

@@chappy2121 always buy second hand

[@lutomson3496]

and older teslas are being scrapped as the batteries cost to much, and here in the US there is no Lithium recycling program like there are for lead acid batteries which are 99.9% recyclable, and 50% of the lithium batteries end up in landfills

[@peterwilliamson1825]

@@lutomson3496 Nothing you've said is actually true. For example, the US company Redwood Materials, a battery recycler created by Tesla cofounder and former tech chief JB Straubel.

[@chappy2121]

@@WarrenF I did. Running a 21 year old Toyota Crown Athlete VX, best car I've ever had by miles

[@richardappleton4802]

Brilliant thank you Harry. Real life insight into running cars today.

[@Pavel_Bazhnyov]

those numbers and thoughts on the matter... its THE automotive journalism that MATTERS. Absolutely brilliant

[@garrettosullivan8830]

The other environmental issue to consider is tail pipe emissions of byproducts like NOx PM10s etc from the burnt diesel or petrol particularly within cities

[@snowlover71]

Yes surely there are more trade-offs. Although this is very interesting and promising and I look forward to the series, Harry should be careful not to be a mouthpiece for an energy company

[@Nodontbuymeportal]

Agree with your comment, CO2 is only one factor that the world is focussed on. This is an interim period of massive change in the automotive industry. Got to start somewhere. Ultimately no tailpipe emissions is the way forward, better for all our health. Cost of electric cars is higher in CO2 plus many other things , but this is changing exponentially and over the life of the car, this CO2 figure will reduce and the electric production will also change to be more renewable or green going forward. Interesting stuff though.

[@QBDLettuce]

Even in today's world, the numbers are insignificant. If a bunch of you eco-hipsters buy yourself some EVs, leaving the remaining few petrol heads... the numbers are even more inconceivably insignificant. So it's not really something to consider. You should be more concerned with how a single volcano eruption can undo all your 'hard work'.

[@chappy2121]

@@Nodontbuymeportal there are other industries like Refrigeration, that I work in that emit c02 massively disproportionately to cars, due to the GWP of the refrigerants that are used. There are many easier and cheaper ways that have multiple knock on effects for all of us but it doesn't get discussed, as this is operation tax the poor people. Have a look at a C02 refrigerant calculator, then go to your local supermarket and ask why they don't put doors on the fridges

[@jimj2683]

@@QBDLettuce Exactly!

[@Ariskot007]

I am actually fascinated how cheap the sustainable fuel is. I would've guessed at least an order of magnitude higher price and very limited supply. Is it taxed in the same way as regular fuels in UK?

[@Wildeheart79]

Petrol's cheap if you take 69% tax out of the equation and yes to answer your question all fuels are taxed one way or another. You've only got to look at our electricity price crisis to see that whether they call it "tax" or "profit" or "overheads" a high price is a high price and a lot of it isn't going on the raw materials you're purchasing.

[@zypp33]

But it is debatable as to whether clearing ground to grow it is really sustainable, I don't think anything is truly sustainable. I think electric cars just put the smoke in someone else's back yard .

[@louisholden5127]

@@zypp33 Emitting CO2 is putting the smoke into someone else's back yard, literally. For most people, an EV emits less CO2 - and once we've eliminated more gas burning, EVs will get cleaner and cleaner.

[@rogerhudson9732]

@@zypp33 That plant in the Atacama desert in Chile isn't like cutting down a Brazilian forest.

[@sh-hg4eg]

EVs only produce less on use. The production of the EV will often add up to more than what you emit from an ICE vehicle. When you start factoring in the fact that we still need to build an entire infrastructure for renwables, that relies heavily on limited and harmful heavy metals (gained through strip mining), that cannot be easily recycled (just as much of the resins used in wind energy cannot be recycled), you start seeing the bigger picture. Renewables and EVs sound good in theory but the reality is far from what is touted.

[@chrisdodd3501]

Great video Harry, many thanks for dissecting this subject, looking forward with great interest to its progression!

[@03Esprit]

That was a great informative peace at last light at the end of the tunnel for our classic cars 😊

[@johnsm100]

Great video Harry, but some points to consider : 1) a large % of phev cars are rarely or never charged through the socket so they are just dragging round a heavy battery and motor for no benefit. 2) bev batteries can be 95% recycled, so first time manufacture they do take significant co2, and second and subsequent use in cars or stationary storage use uses minimal co2. 3) UK and other countries electricity supply are quickly moving to renewable energy, in 5 years time even Oxford will be significantly better than today. But good to hear your sensible views and interested to see your relationship with Coryton develop.

[@GT380man]

I agree that lead/acid batteries can be recycled, it’s closer to 99% than 95% and it’s very low energy and cost requirements to do it. This is not true of the complex chemistry and complex physical manufacturing processes required for modern BEV batteries. I’ve seen no real world data so far. Not journalists stories, original hands on data on car traction batteries. Do you have some really good empirical sources? Ta.

[@johnsm100]

BTW, if you really are a GT380 man, from what I remember of the 2stroke smoke screen when driving behind one of those in my youth you clearly have more concern about the environment than you used to 😂

[@paulflynn8720]

I think the massive missing part on the fuel side is the sheer monitory and environmental cost of extraction and transport of fossil fuels and the processing of the efuels, add them into the equation on the well to wheel equation for the c02 numbers. Great video though and keep up the great work Harry

[@jimj2683]

As long as the process is CO2 neutral, profitability is all that matters. Efficiency is only one of many factors.

[@michaelfleming8517]

Fascinating stuff Harry. Please do lots more videos on this. Thank you. Michael

[@massimilianopisaneschi9701]

Great video! Thorough information and a glimpse of hope for us classic car aficionados. Thank you!

[@Munkenba]

Caveat - the unsustainable construction argument against electric cars goes against all cars, in fact it goes against all (new) things. I commend Harry for recognising that the maintenance of an old vehicle beyond its intended lifespan is an objectively sustainable thing. But, to stand between two brand new cars - one of which effectively has two drivetrains in it - and emphasise the damage done to the environment by just one of them is nonsense. Yes, the BMW was carbon intensive to produce. So was the Range Rover. In Harry's own words, the planet noticed them both. The most effective solution is to move away from the overconsumption of brand new products, on every scale, and towards an economy of maintenance and repair.

[@anthonyfarnan5935]

Wrong. Look at the Volvo study looking at ICE XC40 vs EV XC40. The EV needed to travel 140,000 km before the CO2 reduction was realised, on current energy mix in Europe.

[@acemcgraw1]

@@anthonyfarnan5935 wrong - 146k on global electricity mix. 84k kms on EU mix. So basically, if you were to buy a new car now, over the course of a lifetime, it is more "environmentally friendly" to buy an a Volvo XC40 EV rather than a ICE XC40 as most cars will still be around after 5 years / 50k miles.

[@anthonyfarnan5935]

@@acemcgraw1 wrong - at that mileage, the EV batters are destined for the scrap heap. Whereas the ICE vehicle has another 150,000 km to give.

[@acemcgraw1]

@@anthonyfarnan5935 says who? Most estimates are that batteries will go on for 10-20 years. Most new EVs you buy have a 10 year warranty. How many ICE cars really go on to 150-200k miles before being scrapped? Look, I am a petrol head, but in order to "win" against the EVs, we can't just make stuff up that isn't true!

[@Munkenba]

@@anthonyfarnan5935 oh come on, that’s a decade old speculation at this point, there are a number of ev taxi companies that have pushed Teslas and other vehicles to over half a million miles on original batteries. Meanwhile, 250k on an ice car assumes a rigorous maintenance schedule. Doable, but your every day consumer expects to move on to the next car after 50k.

[@426baron]

Those precise calculations may need serious re-evaluation with energy and fuel prices hikes. New fuels and/or self-produced electricity may get even more interesting.

[@NigelsModellingBench]

I did notice Harry used a cost of £1.60 per litre on the RR?

[@426baron]

@@NigelsModellingBench Indeed.

[@FranzTraininand]

@@NigelsModellingBench My local BP is still at £1.60 for diesel

[@marcmcsorley7707]

Very insightful video. I’ve just taken delivery of a CLA250e and agree with everything Harry has said .

[@richardoverton9599]

Brilliant summary Harry!

[@louisholden5127]

Keeping cars longer is great from a 'toy' perspective, but when it comes to daily drivers, the mileage people do makes swapping to an EV almost always worth it. Most people won't be buying expensive BMW EVs with poor efficiency - they'll be buying something closer to a Renault Zoe, which has nearly double the efficiency and emits far less CO2 during manufacturing as well.

[@bigjml]

It makes more sense for cars to last longer and not be replaced every few years Most of a cars pollution is caused during production Volvo have shown this with their well balanced research

[@anthonyknox1493]

I'm very excited to see development of a direct fuel replacement for classic cars. Doubling fuel cost is a stinger, but i'd stomach it to be able to keep my vehicles on the road in their original state.

[@xBris]

Depending on how you produce your "sustainable" fuel, the process actually emits more carbon into the atmosphere than classic fossil fuels. It's pure greenwashing and I'm afraid Harry has completely fallen for it :( We should just keep fossil fuels available as a reserve and continue to push electric alternatives with government incentives.

[@overbuiltlimited]

@@xBris My man, the whole damn ev industry is greenwashing.

[@ralphmillais5237]

@@xBris I hope Harry reads your comment because you are precisely correct.

[@nickgoode8579]

@@xBris any actual proof of this?

[@sjoroverpirat]

Is fuel cost really a big expense on classic cars? My experience is something very different.

[@robertrotterdam9]

Thank you, Harry, a very insightful explanation.

[@chrisgarside7974]

Highly informative perspective on fuel options and in particular ‘what the planet feels’ with each - this is what we should be focussed on.

[@markwilliams5654]

Did you forget about exhaust particulates

[@barchetta06]

seems to have slipped his mind?

[@leighandrews8863]

Like the videos but now this is the second time when reviewing or comparing electric cars you have used the CO2 levels for the electricity but completely ignored the impact of the fuel production. If your going to list and use the CO2 impact of electricity then you MUST do the same for the fuel production. So the impact of your renewable fuel has to include the production process, shipping impact, and delivery to your door. Electricity is delivered directly to your home on an existing network and is already used to deliver power to your home. Any fuels that requires refining, shipping, transportation and in the case of your bio fuel containerisation there is a huge impact to the environment. Also the mining you refer too for the batteries and the process you failed to mention a few areas. The process of bringing oil to the shore, the mining of lithium is actually pumped to the surface and dries in the sun naturally. Lithium is used on batteries in mobile phones, tools, and ICE car batteries such as McLaren and many others.

[@ciaranwebb6871]

Right but this is an endless circle. Might as well do that for the gas that's produced, extracted and refined in the power stations to generate electricity for the cars. Then transmission losses in the grid network and inefficiencies in the cars charging system. Gas power stations aren't 100% efficient at all.

[@jasonmugridge]

@@ciaranwebb6871 Surely EV's are making our electricity production more efficient given that much of the energy produced in the low demand times, ie at night, is currently wasted. People generally charge their EV's at night with energy that would of otherwise been lost.

[@honestyisthegucci]

True, thought the same!

[@leighandrews8863]

@@ciaranwebb6871 not all electricity is generated with fossil fuels. Nuclear, hydro, wind and wave power to name but a few. Also are you planning to turn all your electricity off then so you don't use it for anything? You talk of losses in the grid, but what about all the carbon produced to deliver your fossil fuels. Electricity is delivered to your home, street, work, and everywhere you go on a network which doesn't add to the carbon emissions.

[@saschareader6696]

Keep it coming Harry, a very interesting space that needs much exploration. Cheers

[@MyWatchTherapy]

Such a well done video. Powerful, compelling and relevant.

[@DaveBoxBG]

First you have not counted the electricity as CO2 in your Range Rover that is why you somehow got lower figure. Second there is no perfect cycle for the "bio fuel". It uses energy to make the fuel , transport it etc. It also adds CO2 .

[@harrysgarage]

The vast majority of the energy used to make the Sustain fuel comes from the waste bio-LPG produced during the production process.

[@Audigiant]

@@harrysgarage Any chance of making a video on the wind turbine setup (maybe on the farm channel)?

[@Rhowhat]

@@harrysgarage do the figure include the energy input for the conversion from biomass to fuel?

[@elwayward3668]

You really must include the extra CO2 released on the gasps of horror produced by that BMW’s front grill.

[@sh-hg4eg]

Lol

[@gazzafloss]

Well presented information, based on experience, the numbers don't lie. Looking forward to any follow up Harry.

[@judebrown2672]

Fantastic topic. I love HG as it covers all topics well. Very interesting and a lot of work gone into this vid. Thank you. Especially as you have a farm to run too.....

[@sparky4878]

I'm very interested in these e-fuels/synth fuels. My cars are toys that do very few miles per year so cost isn't a big concern, would be if I was driving everyday! I'd rather keep my old cars going on something like this. The amount of energy taken to make a new car is far too much for the use I would get out of it and a total waste.

[@aabidamn]

Harry said that they are twice more expensive than normal fossil fuels. Considering that they are now only used probably by 0.00001% compared to normal fossil fuels users, I'd say that that's not too expensive actually. They would definitely be a lot cheaper once they have a bigger market share.

[@pistonburner6448]

@@aabidamn Incorrect. Shell has already announced that their first, immature, initial production which will be done in very small quantities (so doesn't have advantages of scale) will cost only 2€/liter...including taxes!! Biofuels also have been used by hundreds of thousands of people for years and we know for sure they haven't cost anywhere near twice the price, in fact they've only cost a few cents per liter more...even though they don't get the massive subsidies EVs do! You are right that they will certainly get even less expensive when production is further increased.

[@DDd-hr6mz]

Mass production could also drop the price in time. What's neat is unlike EVs, the distribution network for fuel is already in place.

[@aabidamn]

@@pistonburner6448 Harry did say that the synthetic fuel that he uses, cost twice the price of a normal fuel. But if Shell are already able to have their version priced at €2/liter, I wouldn't say no to that.

[@pistonburner6448]

@@aabidamn Yeah, well Harry is buying his stuff delivered in a barrel. From Chile or something if I'm not mistaken...

[@user-sy2mv6my8l]

Sustainable fuels; is like creative accounting. :)

[@zivlu3850]

Love what you do. Thank you, Harry!!

[@christopherwigmore2107]

Brilliant , well done Harry , food for thought .

[@TomPembertonFarmLife]

Completely agree! Eletric cars have to be better. Shocked to how well your Range Rover is doing 😊

[@notrut]

Electric Vehicles produce most of their pollution during the manufacturing process.

[@olis_garage]

@@notrut that's the point, they produce more emissions during manufacture, but this is made up compared to an ICE in circa 3 years of ownership

[@lesbrown5829]

@@olis_garage I remember when ICE meant In Car Entertainment!

[@jerehada]

@@olis_garage and according to Volvo 70k miles before an electric moves ahead of an ice.

[@yvs6663]

the fake mpg number he read off the dash is fake. if u don't plug the car in and use it normally, it wouldn't go any further on the same amount of gas than a comparable hybrid and a comparable hybrid vehicle of the same size isn't getting 68mpg. the actual highway mpg for a BMW X5 plugin with an empty battery is in the mid 20s and even a Yaris Hybrid doesn't get the MPG he stated he was getting. similarly, a plugin is less efficient than a comparable electric car when running on full electric. i wouldn't be suprised if the Range Rover does about half the miles on the same amount of electricity compared to the BMW and there are more efficent electrics out there compared to the i4. "electric cars have to be better" nope, the infrastructure needs to be better and it will get better with more electric cars on the road. most chargers where i am from are vastly underutilized. there are also some locations(outside my home country) where the number of chargers hasn't kept up with the rapid adoption. but those people would profit from installing more.

[@JamesThomas-wf9sl]

A really interesting video. I run a 68 Fastback Mustang, I'd be happy to run that on E-Fuel even at twice the price, I could probably get away with running my 996 C4S on it as well as that doesn't do a huge amount of mileage either. My guess is the price will come down with volume and economies of scale so well worth getting in on it now, in order to ensure it has a viable future.

[@ethanthomas68]

Nice presentation! My wife and I have been happy with our BMW X5 e40 hybrid.

[@fg87fgd]

Important topic, brilliantly presented. Thank you, Harry.

[@superbear617]

Great video! You hit on a LOT of excellent points here in a very short time. (recycle cost of electric batteries might be one more). I hope there will be more technology advances soon to better answer some of the questions you raise.

[@InspirationSessions]

Apply the same kind of Moore's Law logic to EV tech as for semiconductors and there are bound to be some quantum leaps forward over the next decade. Assuming Putin doesn't nuke us all first.

[@pabauza]

I love the videos about energy Harry. The one on hydrogen for industrial equipment was great as well. Keep them coming.

[@jamessuttie2506]

Fascinating video, Harry. I think you are on to something. I like your perspective on sustainable fuels. I look forward to hearing more.

[@eastielover]

Wonderful video. I really enjoy these videos that go into such detail re electric, Hybrid etc

[@n9athan]

The BMW seems to be very inefficient compared to a model 3 and Hyundai ioniq 5, both achieving >4 miles/kwh relative to the BMWs 2.5 miles/kwh

[@adpmol]

Fat tyres...

[@graemetucker8150]

The BMW was his real world driving. Once your at 70-80mph the m/kwh drop

[@n9athan]

@@adpmol model S plaid tires significantly fatter. In fact model 3 performance is the same.

[@dreamcrusher112]

Coryton being double normal petrol sounds a lot, but when we have seen premium essentially double since 2019, I think it may prove a good transition. If the Govt cut some fuel duty (supposedly there to punish CO2) then the cost wouldn't need to be £3/L

[@WayneFoxUK]

Problem being, if this replacement fuel is the same cost (or close to normal fuel), by slashing the tax on it, suddenly there's no demand for electric cars anymore. If anything they'll continue to keep hiking the price on both this, and normal fuel, using the propoganda stories as their excuse. They NEED to have us in electric cars, or else they don't gain the control they need.

[@mbak7801]

@@WayneFoxUK I want electric as I make my own fuel (solar). Nothing to do with this weird idea of 'control'. Just pure economics.

[@tbrdoescinema]

@@WayneFoxUK They? 🤣

[@alexanderhenshaw3177]

Brilliant video yet again, very interested to follow the progress

[@mrmoss149]

Brilliant, Harry. Simply Brilliant. Cheers

[@perroviejo666]

It would be great to see a video on the costs per mile in the case of Hydrogen fuel cell cars like the Toyota Mirai.

[@silencer303]

I agree I think hydrogen is an interesting option. Also there is the internal combustion hydrogen engines and the fuel cell.

[@nicholasrigg8999]

My e-Niro got 4.5 m/kWh on a journey yesterday. My current off-peak rate is 5p per KW. So EV usage can be so much cheaper than your figures suggest

[@SarGara]

"current off-peak" being the key word there. Try finding a provider offering that currently, i'll wait.

[@Munkenba]

@@SarGara if you want to talk transport costs “currently” rather than “typically” then you’ll have a hard time backing oil’s corner. I paid 185p per litre yesterday, and that was for petrol.

[@dangermouse12345]

@@SarGara My Octopus Go rate is 5p per kWh for 4 hours overnight. But from April it becomes 7.5p per kWh. Day rate goes from 13p to 30p but I can charge the car almost solely overnight at 5 or 7.5p. Way cheaper than Petrol or Diesel. I also get 4 miles/kWh in my e-Niro so I can get 28 kWh overnight for £1.40 and do 112 miles. At 7.5p it is £2.10 to do 112 miles

[@paulsm77]

@@dangermouse12345 you won’t get many miles added in 4 hours on a domestic supply?

[@dangermouse12345]

@@paulsm77 Well, as I put in my reply, you would get 28 kWh through a 7 kWh charger in 4 hours which is what most home chargers are.

[@olivermaltby2943]

A fascinating subject Harry. Thanks for making such interesting content as always.

[@markuswagner370]

Thank you, thank you so much. I have always been a fan of your work, Lord Metcalfe - ever since I lived in the UK. During the last 10 years I have based my buying decisions on your verdict, or on what I read in evo magazine. This project you are describing here is exactly what we need! Greetings and best wishes from Germany.

[@DC.409]

Fascinating video I was intrigued to note your only getting 2.5 miles/kWh out of the BMW I4 M50, testing in Norway under winter conditions, they are getting 2.98miles/kWh in standard, not economically mode. Assuming this is a journalist’s car, given they have a tendency towards a heavy right foot particularly when the car is the performance, were the computers reset before the testing to ensure the true everyday consumption figures.

[@jasper6531]

I highly recommend the videos from @EngineeringExplained which have a more scientific approach to these comparisons. I'm normally a big fan of Harry's videos but it's become a trend among UK automotive youtubers recently to only consider the full life cycle of the EV and not the ICE. Let's compare apples with apples.

[@jimj2683]

Learn to read instead of basing your opinions on some random youtubers!

[@PhilbyFavourites]

@@jimj2683 wow harsh words from a random KZbinr….

[@shineyboots]

Very grateful for all the "energy" that you put into your vids and the information forthcoming. In no way wishing to promote Damion of The Car Guys piece that he has just put online may i suggest that along with your findings your viewers take an equally long hard look at Damion's findings because they, alongside yours are incredible valuable. Thank you.

[@martinmentor]

Fascinating. I wait with great interest to see how the investigation develops.

[@bjmullan]

As always Harry, you treat your audience as intelligent people. Excellent presentation!

[@MikeNunn-LWM]

I would like to see consistency in the CO2 and pence per mile calculations. How can one vehicle have free electricity with no CO2 and the other the projected costs of a future bill? Please also include the CO2 of producing the synthetic fuels, which currently uses a massive amount of electricity.

[@davidm5842]

As Harry said, the synthetic fuel is produced using entirely renewable electricity, so no CO2. He didn't add in the transport impact though.

[@MikeNunn-LWM]

@@davidm5842 the fully electric car could be charged from his wind turbine and cost nothing and produce no CO2, but he chose to make up those figures. Don’t forget synthetic fuels need transportation and there are CO2 and cost impacts for this.

[@sh-hg4eg]

In that case, let's factor in the production of renewable infrastructure (including all the strip mining for the limited heavy metals (500ton per battery)), the fact that solar panels cannot be feasibly recycled by most places, the oil used in wind farm maintenance and the resin propellers that cannot be recycled and are currently just buried in landfills.

[@andrewschirmer3849]

Fascinating Harry thanks great content as per usual.

[@giovannigallo8429]

Harry, great informative video 👍🏻

[@eclecticcyclist]

The CO2 emitted in your elecricity supply is not constant throughout the day, at night it tends to drop in most areas as the demand drops off but wind energy is still produced at the same rate (given that the wind strength remains the same). As many EVs are charged overnight this means that they charge on cleaner electricity than you might think.

[@sh-hg4eg]

The awkward moment when you look into wind technology and realise it uses masses amount of oil to maintain the mechanisms and the propellers aren't able to be recycled.

[@eclecticcyclist]

@@sh-hg4eg 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 OIl which can be recycled as opposed to the fuel in IC engines which is burnt and the toxic exhaust gasses released into the atmosphere. Scrap turbine blades can be crushed and used as filler for architectural building panels and Siemens Gamesa have developed a fully recyclable turbine blade

[@danrenshaw]

A lot of savvy EV drivers in the UK use tariffs such as Octopus Go. Charging vehicles overnight at 5-7p per KWH, so using an EV would be a fraction of the cost that you predict.

[@clivethomas6864]

And you should be able to get between 3.8 to 5 Per Kwh.

[@joshjoshi1978]

Fantastic, thoughtful video. Thank you.

[@markwilson3971]

Go Harry! Love the sustainable fuel idea, been intrigued as well! Can’t wait to see a 12cyl Italian car run on this incredible technology!

[@zypp33]

Thanks for this great analysis, very encouraging for classic cars; I've seen various classics converted to electric including a100k ++ Bentley, which tho beautiful and works of mechanical genius lose the point of a classic, and as you point out what life span? I think these are like putting a quartz movement behind a grandfather clock face, accurate but dead and dramatically diminished value. My old car is 60 years old still with its original engine... occasionally I do get range anxiety if I think about it!

[@rn5362]

Good old proper automotive journalism. Thank you Harry

[@guywilson187]

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for creating this thought provoking video.

[@paulcoles3265]

As informative as it gets Harry. The best real world comparison I’ve seen. Add in the Volvo report on EV vs petrol (Autotrader) and The Car Guys’ exposé of EV’s and you have the definitive source on the subject. Am following with interest. Many thanks..

[@joelsmith9311]

Wow, great video Harry, thanks for producing all the stats too. I’m fascinated by the bio-fuel - and although it’s double the price currently, with the cost of oil going through the roof at the moment it’s probably not far away from looking like reasonable value! Do you have to make any engine modifications to an older vehicle to safely run it?

[@louisbryant2302]

It might be double the price, however it is a new technology. Once it starts becoming more mainstream and the bumps are ironed out, the price will hopefully drop a fair amount (:

[@FurkanCemTurfanda]

Porsche is investing into synth-fuels to keep the classics on the road, so I assume yes.

[@FridgeProductionsLtd]

If it has a very high ethanol base, then yes. Fuel lines and carburettor gaskets etc. I'm sure both adaptable with relative ease if available.

[@paulleonard1296]

Does this factor in the CO2 emitted by shipping the fuel from Santiago to Burford? You should probably factor in the refining and shipping of the petrol in the Rangey as well. Would be interesting to see your findings on how this fuel compares to e5 in terms of power and efficiency. There's plenty of old M3s still about so I'm sure that M50 will last as long as your Rolls if it's looked after. Not like you need to worry so much about servicing, just fit a new battery in 20 years time and it'll probably have double the range too.

[@jimj2683]

Shipping it is very efficient. About 97% actually because the ships carry so much fuel compared to how much they use.

[@garethd4948]

A really great video - level-headed and balanced.

[@DW-dd4iw]

Great analysis as always

[@Edward3D]

Given your concerns about emissions from BEV manufacturing, have you looked into energy intensity and emissions from the manufacturing process for sustainable fuel?

[@kilux85]

Exactly, also the BEV is build once, the E-Fuel has to be generated constantly with huge amounts of energy needed.

[@geoffwoodgate7450]

You seem to have missed the point. The sustainable fuels are produced with renewable energy only.

[@EP-mc5hx]

could the bio-LPG produced from the process of the sustainable fuel be transported also and used to generate electricity for additional power to the UK Grid and other grids. you also need to factor in the shipping fuel and co2 output of transporting the fuel in tankers, but i suppose its the same as normal fossil fuel

[@kilux85]

@@geoffwoodgate7450 Still, it takes a multiple times more energy, energy that could be used for more useful things. E-Fuels will be needed for things like aviation and ships where batteries won't be feasable in the foreseeable future, whilst for normal cars it's the most efficient way, there is no way around that.

[@joeynessily]

Your co2 emissions for the Range rover/PHEV are today’s numbers. The EV Co2 emissions are dropping as the grid moves to more wind and solar.. the PHEV and Petrol cars are locked into that rate of CO2 emissions. Look at what the emissions were when the grid was supported by Coal stations (now almost gone) 10-15 years ago.

[@sh-hg4eg]

Renwables can't match current demand, let alone if tens of millions of people then started using EVs. There's a limit to its usage and anything else is a fantasy.

[@MrSheymie]

Thanks Harry. Very interesting.

[@scdesign1565]

Good stuff! This is all very exciting for the future.

[@chriswyman]

Great video Harry. I’ve seen a lot of anti-EV stuff coming from ‘car KZbin’ recently but you always offer a reasoned POV. I totally get that lots of people are emotionally invested in the continuity of the internal combustion engine and in a sense cars are being picked on as an easy target in the climate change conversation. However, looking at it from a macro level it just doesn’t make sense to continue pursuing with ICE. The simplicity and efficiency of the electric motor is the key to its superiority. It’s the batteries everyone complains about, quite rightly too but that is technology which is relatively new and will only improve. The internal combustion engine has reached its shelf life in terms of innovation, the technology cannot possibly get the factors of improvement that we need from it. It just doesn’t make sense to continue with it as our core mobility solution. Fundamentally the ICE is an inefficient 19C invention that has given us a huge amount of social progress but isn’t fit for purpose when we’re talking about technology for the next 50-100 years. By the way I’m not saying ban them, I love engines and cars and we should continue to celebrate them. I just understand why nation states are pushing OEMs and society towards electric ‘cos it makes sense long term.

[@chriswhite8728]

@wymo85 your reply is the best on this board, logical, well written and not a ‘diss’ insight, brilliant

[@MrVielanda]

Is there any risk for engines and parts of old cars like the RR in using sustainable fuels?

[@rabcarver333]

It creates deposits and corrosion.

[@johnsmith1474]

I think you can presume that is a consideration. Duh.

[@chrishb7074]

@@rabcarver333 Not necessarily. The chemical equation (at 11:16) shows it going all the way to a pure hydrocarbon fuel, not an ethanol/petrol mixture that will dissolve water and do the corrosion you mention. The sustainably synthesised fuel can be specifically optimised for really efficient combustion in vehicle and aero engines. It would actually work better than the mixtures we have today in petrol and diesel made from the catalytic cracking and distillation of crude oil.

[@mcspikesky]

@@rabcarver333 what fuel?

[@monikacognomen1096]

Harry is being paid (and no doubt, imdenified) to find out. If it does happen to destroy them, well, I'm not privy to the contract...

[@typhoon3s943]

Well spoken and a fair debate showing both sides of the story and their pros and cons. 👏

[@rossfripp4503]

A very good, insightful video, as useful for Harry.

[@garrettosullivan8830]

Yes more of us need to install our own electricity generation from solar and wind at small scale

[@James-oo1yq]

If I had the space to install a wind-turbine I absolutely would. Unfortunately 95% of UK residents don’t have the space.

[@ericpisch2732]

I love Harry but he’s not going to give up burning stuff till the planets dead lol

[@spencerfunnell1973]

I never comment on videos normally but owning a few classic cars and bikes, I love the idea of a sustainable fuel….looking forward to following the project with you Harry….!

[@egi75]

great insights. Thank you Harry!

[@Pietervdv]

I'd be very interested in your findings on the classic car fuel. I hope it's a new way to move forward.

[@xBris]

Unfortunately "sustainable" fuels aren't a way forwards, they're two steps back. Depending on the exact manufacturing process, "sustainable" carbon-based fuels actually emit more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than classic fossil fuels. It's greenwashing. Harry has unfortunately completely fallen for it and hasn't done his research :(

[@martinnorth2680]

@@xBris Harry doesn't strike me as a man who fails to research.

[@mikesage9544]

Utterly brilliant Harry. If I were forced to only watch one youtube channel, then this would be it. So well researched and methodically presented with clear and concise information. My apologies go out to:- Sig Cironi, Mr Dutton, Mr Carlson, imy2, N4HNH and others. Thanks Harry. Bw from the Black Forrest.

[@AMSillje]

''If I were forced to only watch one youtube channel, then this would be it'' Ha same here!

[@paulwinterbourne2875]

Thank you for a very informative explanation.

[@aidanmunnelly769]

Excellent information as always.