The Ultimate Weapon! | Discussing Star Trek TNG - The Arsenal of Freedom (S1E21)

[@targetaudience]

Watch ALL of our Star Trek TNG Discussions - kzbin.info/aero/PL5Pso33oqJDiRhXvjrn59Gy2Bby6JPW10&si=lAu7qzYL1kgEdzNn

[@wrorchestra1]

Riker wanted to serve on the Enterprise because it is the Federation Flagship. It is a prestigious posting.

[@KeoTower]

My fav part of the video is when you play the Star Trek TNG trailer from back in the day. I remember watching this as kid. So nostalgic.

[@tinkinc85]

Something to consider: context. This was the later half of the 1980s and the Cold War arms race was still a thing as was the USA's development of "Star Wars" weaponry. It was also the height of commercialism, both concepts lend familiarity to the events of this episode. It was nice to learn a little about Beverly's grandmother.......

[@ryank5424]

I think ppl sometimes forget that troi is more than her ability. She's a trained psychologist in charge of her own department. When she's talking to laforge it's more likely her training than her ability, maybe both IMO.

[@hemmojito]

Yes not a glorified lie detector. Pity she gets perceived as that sometimes.

[@AdamPurcell]

I knew I recognised Ensign Lian T'Su from somewhere but, having just looked her up, Babylon 5 fans may know Julia Nickson as having played Catherine Sakai (Sinclair's special friend!)

[@hemmojito]

Also Rambo II. Gorgeous lady.

[@markfilla9305]

Regarding the new format- it worked for me keeping the reaction and discussion as one piece in terms of continuity. However, one nice thing about having the discussion separate is that I can treat it more like a podcast than a video and have it run in the background while I'm doing something else. So this works for me as well.

[@mjbull5156]

An adversary which constantly upgrades itself against your tactics almost immediately? That could be a horrific and demoralizing sort of enemy.

[@Jukrates]

Merchandaising is futile

[@TheNoiseySpectator]

@@Jukrates Oh, I disagree! If *I* could buy that thing, you'd better believe I would! If no other reason, than to keep anyone else from getting a hold of it! 😦

[@thomasgrimm1664]

I didn't get hung up on the space drone not shutting down when Picard closes the deal. Could have been an independent system, or old and defective. Whatever the reason - luring it into the atmosphere was brilliant.

[@captainbryce1]

I don't know why, but I thought Riker referencing a Shirley Temple song was the funniest thing about this episode: "On the good ship...Lollipop!"

[@feralstorm]

I could imagine the people on the planet who were wiped out DID think of "OK I'll buy it!" to shut off the weapons, but they weren't able to bugger off into deep space when the payment collection came due, and the weapons got turned back on.

[@CrimsonRoseDancer]

When I was in the army I had times when I was a lower rank than the people I was put in charge of for certain details. They absolutely tried to flex on me. I just kept meticulous records and covered my ass, showing that I was doing things by the books and they ended up getting hammered by the higher ups for trying to get me in trouble. It’s an unusual circumstance and it makes things harder when people focus on rank rather than position.

[@charlottehammond8975]

this is sad to read. sounds like you have the priorities id expect from a protector. thank you for your service.

[@quoniam426]

Just a thought, When the order to shut down was given, the space ship thingy was going into the atmosphere to follow the Enterprise. There is plasma interference due to atmospheric reentry at that moment, I guesstimate that the thingy simply didn't recieve the order because it just couldn't recieve any signal at that precise moment...

[@richdurbin6146]

Or since they're not doing split screen, the ship vs device is suppose to be simultaneous with Picard talking to the salesman.

[@Drysart]

I always figured that the Enterprise was able to destroy it *because* it had received the order to stand down, and so it dropped its defenses.

[@greenbrown7776]

An enjoyable, hard sci-fi, mid-level outing. I liked having three different sets of characters split up and in peril from the one thing. That kept things hopping. Not up to the level of "Where No One ..." or "11001001" or "Heart of Glory" or "Coming of Age," though.

[@VonWenk]

I'm not sure I would characterize the sections with Geordi a B-story. Unlike Wesley's story at the Academy in "Coming of Age," both what was going on on the Enterprise and on Minos itself were elements of the same story, just from different angles.

[@wyrmshadow4374]

The purpose of having a Counselor on the ship: people go Space Crazy on these long duration, far exploration missions. The time after Kirk and the start of TNG was a very long period of peace and exploration for the Federation. They even stopped thinking of Starfleet as a military arm, despite the naval ranks. The ships got bigger and more luxurious and you could take your families with you on these long missions. Why not? Starfleet has had 80 years of peace. The Enterprise isn't a battleship, she's a palace. Kirk's ship had a crew of 450 in a volume 10% of the TNG Enterprise with a crew of 1000. But even with all those luxuries and peace, sometimes people go kookoo out there in deep space. Hence trained Counselors are needed.

[@alandavies3295]

Love that you guys are going on this journey! I watched these as they came out when I was 7 years old and have loved Star Trek ever since. It is fun to watch the again through fresh eyes, it does only get better!

[@danjsilve]

The Enterprise is the Flagship of Starfleet.

[@frankb3347]

My biggest complaint about TOS is that they didn't develop the secondary characters more.

[@darthmaul13]

Like who?? U mean Geordi, Worf, Troi & Data, Crusher? They all had quite a few episodes about themselves.

[@kerry-j4m]

TNG also suffers from this also and it's such a shame too,because they had a much longer series run than TOS.

[@stonebaxter]

@@darthmaul13 TOS, not TNG

[@darthmaul13]

@@stonebaxter duh 🙄. LOL. He card read good. Thanks 🙏

[@stonebaxter]

@@darthmaul13 LOL! I hear you ;p

[@Ship-security]

I cannot get enough of your Star Trek content.

[@MoonjumperReviews]

This episode always struck me as: this is what happens when computer programmers who don’t understand how commerce works are in charge of programming the very machines we use to conduct it-case in point, a scenario in which the machine doesn’t understand that you can’t make a sale to a customer you just murdered.

[@ryank5424]

Also want to add that riker made a smart career decision by turning down the drake. I don't remember if it has come up yet but the NCC-1701-D is the flagship of the fleet.

[@ThePendragon1998]

I thought the planet was just an automated showroom, rather than a destroyed civilization. Maybe I missed something.

[@JamesC1981]

Yes my christmas is now complete! "classic Andreas Schmitt" has returned with the comments

[@danjsilve]

Love the way you refer to her as “Dr Beverly” Looking forward to your reactions to 3 out of last 5 eps of S1.

[@JimFeig]

The Enterprise is the Flagship of Starfleet in TNG

[@jpotter2086]

Here's comes Data with the high-risk maneuver .... OFF THE TOP ROPE ... !

[@corumhayes8178]

Behold Counselor Troi doing actual ship counselor's things! It's almost like using her as her title describes could help delve deeper into the characters. Who would have thunk it!

[@larrygreen8828]

this is one of the main differences between this show and TOS, every main cast member of the show feels equally important. Picard is Captain of the ship, but not Captain of the show

[@kerry-j4m]

HUH ??? Is this your first time watching TNG ??? LOL.

[@timothybuckley3764]

It took quite a while for the producers to realize it, but they got freaking LEVAR BURTON as a regular cast member for TNG - Maybe they should USE him. Burton was already a well-established and respected actor by 1987. After the first season, Georgi becomes a much more significant part of the crew and is the focus of more stories. Conversely, the writers never really figured out how to use Troi. In 1988, I saw Marina Sirtis at a Convention. I was amazed at how personable she really is. She mentioned that, after the pilot, she insisted that no one ever make her say, "I feel intense pain" ever again. I agree with you that the Georgi story works better than the planetside story. As you say, that story resolves a little too neatly, and the lesson is too obvious. That said, Vincent Schiavelli was a good pick for the automated arms dealer. Also, nothing is ever mentioned about what happened to the Drake. We assume it was destroyed, but no one ever mentions it again after the beginning.

[@wyrmshadow4374]

Marina Sirtis is also a huge gossip at conventions

[@charlottehammond8975]

omg i just realized the alien tech "read" the characters with a special effects "rainbow" hahahaha

[@CanuckGod]

BTW, it's Geordi, not Georgi.

[@hemmojito]

Vincent Schiavell huh? I love this guy. If you need a guy that can portrait a whimsical side but also a ruthless side that's the guy you want. He would say something quirky and don't bat an eyelid at the sight of someone murdered one second later like an underworld concierge where the tone doesn't quite fit the occasion. Totally enjoyed his short screentime.

[@michaeldeffendall1634]

Sulu took command of the Enterprise during the episode with the Organians

[@Tuning_Spork]

Maybe no one on the planet thought to shut it off by making a purchase because none of them ever fell into the salesman's pit like those klutzes, Picard and Crusher. 😅

[@kengascoigne5946]

9:15 lol Its great how u guys appreciate star trek as much as you do.

[@8ootySmasher]

Im just excited that for yall to come to Season 2,3, 4, etc it only gets better exponentially. Story, writing, character depth, mystery. So good, so excited for yall to see this particular show set its roots and grow from it. There are some absolute mind melting banger episodes to come. Then the movies :3 (First contact is my fav)

[@WarpigGaming.]

1 thing about the riker not taking his own ship .......the enterprise D is the Federation flagship

[@jowbloe3673]

I suppose being second in command on the flagship is more prestigious than being Captain of some backwoods garbage scow.

[@pigs18]

I think they refer to it as such, too, though I don't remember enough minutia to say when they start making that reference.

[@kerry-j4m]

Being in command of your own ship usually leads to making-CAPTAIN-much faster tho.

[@c71score]

Riker turned down a main event spot in TNA to be upper mid-card in WWE

[@tensix5481]

this was kind of like the subplot for the Incredibles - with that robot that kept upgrading to kill the supers

[@floydlooney6837]

I can hardly wait until they reach the end of season 2. So much to talk about.

[@Yggdrasil42]

I loved this episode as a kid. The idea of a constantly improving AI was very original at the time and gave a real sense of urgency. Geordi having to make the difficult decision to leave. Couple of plot holes but those didn't ruin the episode for me. The idea of a civilizations legacy being the automated weapon systems is so interesting to me.

[@unchainedsilver9702]

This was a great episode and got me into the show originally when i first saw this one on syndication when i was little ....then i started watching newer seasons as they were released on a weekly basis at the time .... People like to poop on Season 1 but it has a some good fun ones like this ...

[@jdb101585]

I love that you guys are on the holodeck. :)

[@HalkerVeil]

I can't wait for the next few episodes. Going to be interesting.

[@targetaudience]

Watch our reaction to The Arsenal of Freedom - kzbin.info/www/bejne/poS1qJubecuVndEsi=wriWKrP_kjAvJSrx

[@TearDownGenesis]

This isn't a spoiler but Troy can't "use her power" on anyone as much as its just reading people's feelings. She's an Empath, sensing emotions. There may be a little more, but she can't control people, or calm them, etc. its just receiving.

[@JacobStJules]

Great take on this episode. Thank you for your work.

[@BlueBookGuy]

Speed up your watching! .. I can't wait to see your faces on SOME S2 and ALL of S3 !

[@richardb6260]

If the main purpose of the weapon was to adapt, then even if they included a failsafe, the weapon might have still adapted to counteract the failsafe.

[@hemmojito]

fascinating. I wonder what advanced race it would have taken had the Enterprise failed.

[@KineticSymphony]

At this point I'll just say it, TNG season 1 not only doesn't suck, it's actually pretty good.

[@MrDrako2012]

I think the show improves progressively through the first third of season 2. So by this point you start seeing some really solid episodes.

[@kramermccabe8601]

It's good but the rewatchability doesn't match later seasons

[@s.panimations]

I think it's become one of those Mandela Effect things where it's been so hammered into us that we just believe it. Then we look back and we find out that it's not the case.

[@prime-of-two3753]

Not sure why it got the reputation. I’ve always thought it was miles ahead of the last season in quality.

[@joonaa2751]

I think the first 3rd of it is pretty weak (roughly Farpoint through Justice, though a few within that group are OK), then it becomes mostly rather good

[@whisperienced]

Two of the guest actors appeared in Buffy and Angel.

[@williamozier918]

I want to see more of Enisgn Tsu.

[@OtakuByNight]

I always took this episode as the civilization simply died out or nuked themselves vs the machines getting too strong and turning on them. Things were just left "on" and the crew stumbled upon it.

[@HowToX]

I believe that the larger unit that was in space is the one that destroyed the planet. It has improved itself over time. The ones on the planet were a different set for a different transaction, and they were the starting package. Purchasing them would not have affected the big one in space; that one assumedly had already been bought.

[@jdb101585]

Great point.

[@okankyoto]

Maybe the "turn it off" moment should've come just after Geordi destroys the drone- as the NEXT drone comes up from the surface and all looks lost.

[@drueking]

I thought maybe that the planet was attacked by an outside force to take the weapon system, so they turned it on for real for defense. But the system destroyed both sides and then reset itself into a demo mode. Just an idea.

[@jonbolton3376]

I knew you'd enjoy the stuff with Geordie.

[@matthewross2915]

I’ve been shocked. Going back through these episodes with you reminds me of how many decent to good episodes there are. I think there are more bad ones than you do, but still. It’s not nearly as bad overall as I remembered.

[@rscottdjr]

I would like to have seen a follow up episode where collections comes after Picard for non-payment.

[@rayhume1971]

If I remember correctly, Beverly Crusher was born on the Moon.

[@oaf-77]

Now that the federation owns the self evolving weapon, i hope we see more of it utilized

[@ianmckenzie2168]

I like the episode trailers!

[@SandraBeaumont-oh2hp]

You comment on the weapon attacking Enterprise not disappearing. the weapon and Enterprise were in the atmosphere so it wouldn't receive the shutdown command because of communication blackout.

[@gregquinn7817]

Crusher is a human. But she was raised on a colony on another planet. Some day that planet will be visited....and ummmm...I'll leave it at that.

[@lazarus5609]

The next generation commercials we had nothing like that in the UK

[@Raja1938]

Consider yourself lucky. Having watched the episodes when they originally were broadcast, I always felt that they spoiled too much.

[@mosser-wm3dx]

Echo papa, these things have been burned into my memory because of how ridiculously op they were in the game "Birth of The Federation". First battle, 2 of them killed a group of Miranda's like they were stepping on ants lol

[@LeutnantJoker]

⚠ NO SPOILERS PLEASE ⚠ These guys have not yet watched any Star Trek beyond this point. So NO SPOILERS of future content, NO HINTS at future episodes, movies or characters please! We are all excited to share knowledge but please keep their journey spoiler free. THANK YOU!

[@hemmojito]

"Nobody thought o' that?..." I think nobody got to that showroom to be able to shut it off in the first place. They didn't even get to see the salesman. So at some point a demo went wrong and for some reason nobody was in that room anymore and it ran from there. A demo that never ended. In order to get to that underground room you'd have to fight your way through all of these machines. Yes it's complete luck and sooner or later they would have been wiped out. The question remains if Jeordi's plan would have been any good but oh well... Convenient? A little bit but intriguing enough to overlook. The concept alone was gripping for me personally. I wonder at what point it would have been near invincible and what super advanced race it would have taken to shut it down had the Enterprise failed. Stuff like that....

[@darthmaul13]

Hidi hi hidi ho only 2 episodes to go !! 🤯 When I saw the upcoming episode in 88 when I was 14. The hair on the back of my neck to the base of my ass all stood up 😂

[@gallendugall8913]

On the good ship Lollipop Its a sweet trip To the candy shop Where bon-bon's play, On the sunny beach Of peppermint bay Lemonade stands, Everywhere Crackerjack bands, Fill the air, And there you are, Happy landings on a chocolate bar. See the sugar bowl Do a tootsie roll In a big bad devils food cake, If you eat too much, Oh, oh, You'll awake, With a tummy ache. On the good ship Lollipop Its a nice trip, In to bed you hop, And dream away, On the good ship Lollipop

[@vincentpuccio3689]

?

[@LeutnantJoker]

@@vincentpuccio3689 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jX2vhKSmjt6Deposi=26SzU3j0uuPluUYv&t=52

[@gallendugall8913]

@@vincentpuccio3689 agreed

[@Vulcanerd]

Wwheeeeee~ For the algos!

[@vincentpuccio3689]

Kind of like the premise of forbidden planet you build machine that turns around and kills you

[@CavemanSynthesizer]

I think the effectiveness in the "A" storyline is due to the stakes. Obviously we know they survive, but the whole planet was killed off and the weapon is billed as an "ultimate" weapon so our heroes are in a real pinch, and they can't rely on outside help. I at least found it somewhat exciting. The solution is really simple and I'd never really realized that was a plot-hole ("why didn't anyone else think of that?"), but it kind of fit in with the show's anti-war utopian sci-fi vision. It continually paints contemporary human society and its various alien stand-ins as "barbaric," and the silliness of the solution really fits in with that whole philosophy. I thinks that's why Picard plays the resolution with a kind of horrified incredulity.

[@empirejeff]

A Christmas Miracle 🎄

[@hornorsilk2901]

I've long thought this was influenced by Douglas Adams. That's why I can accept the A story.

[@jowbloe3673]

Magrathea?

[@hornorsilk2901]

@@jowbloe3673 yep

[@Z1gguratVert1go]

Geordi was a character they didn't know what to do with yet, so they kept experimenting with him. They do find a permanent job for him though. I won't spoil.

[@TheArmase]

I know you keep asking "where are the bad episodes", but what you should be asking is "how good are the later episodes" 🤣🤣

[@aircap]

The drone practical effect was pretty low-budget… From the wiki: “The model of the drone was created by Dan Curry, from a L'eggs pantyhose container and a shampoo bottle. He hand animated the model instead of using motion control photography, using his years of Tai Chi training to keep the movements fluid. To blend into the background, he wore a pair of green tights whilst he was manually moving the model on screen.”

[@hemmojito]

Anyone notice the girl from Rambo II ?

[@christopherelwood8525]

I'm confused about oat bran.

[@JoeKawano]

The species did not kill themselves with these weapons. What must have happened was that customers were so enraged at these dangerous, even lethal, sales pitches ('demonstrations') that they bought the product and then turned the weapons on the planet that produced them. 😅

[@BCBaron]

I always got kind of a planet Magrathea vibe from this episode, except instead of constructing luxury planets, their particular industry focused on hyper-sophisticated weapons systems. Turns out they were way too good at their job.

[@BeachcomberNZ]

Once they stop doing the fake planet settings, and use actual location settings, things get a lot better, style-wise.

[@TearDownGenesis]

It may be that if they hadn't destroyed it the one in space would have returned even stronger, like the ones on the planet did.

[@MarkPlemmons]

Does Riker's arsenal look big in those pants?

[@targetaudience]

This is our first comment of 2024.

[@Shootingstarcomics]

Dude, they only made 2 Terminator movies.

[@KineticSymphony]

Terminator 3 wasn't that bad.

[@Shootingstarcomics]

@@KineticSymphony yeah, I did like 3. I thought I was the only one.

[@cashflowhustles]

3 is decent and not a complete time waster. It also answers a few questions as well.

[@PenikeseKidd]

👍

[@Shootingstarcomics]

Riker wanted to serve on the Enterprise because they have an android, a Klingon, the finest women in starfleet and R rated holodecks.

[@tristanrose1343]

🖖

[@Michael-id9bw]

Weaponized A.I. run amok.

[@richardzinns5676]

You're right of course about secondary characters in TOS, except occasionally Scotty, not having really featured parts in any episodes; but this kind of fairly hard and fast distinction between lead characters and supporting characters was the rule in all the serious dramatic TV shows of the era (though not always in sitcoms). As far as I am aware, the first show that moved serious TV dramas into something more like ensemble shows was Hill Street Blues in the early 80's; I don't remember anything like that before then. By the time TNG came along, this approach was fairly standard. And I always figured that the species that created the weapons in this episode must have programmed their devices to think of them only as sellers, not buyers, and forgotten to tell the devices not to kill sellers for purposes of demonstration - which would mean that couldn't turn the devices off simply by offering to buy them themselves.

[@bradchoi9679]

Hmmmm.... perhaps the main storyline was a well-disguised comment on gun control? lol.

[@gershman23]

So a couple of things: First, Why do you keep calling Dr. Crusher, Dr. Beverley? It is a little annoying, not to mention linguistically wrong. Secondly, Why did you find it weird that there are humans serving on the Enterprise that weren't born on earth? What does is matter where did they grow-up if they went through Starfleet academy and graduated? Also, I get that you guys are a product of watching TOS and the first 6 movies that somewhat mucked this up, but the federation is not made up of Humans(and Vulcans), but of more that a 150 member worlds, and so Starfleet should be composed of more than just Humans from earth...in fact, there should have been a Vulcan, an Andorian, and a Tellarite, at the very least, on every SF ship we witnessed so far... Thirdly, It's not just a ship named Enterprise, it's the flag-ship of the federation, and the Hood was a relatively minor ship, so Riker felt it was more beneficial to his career to be second-in-command of the flag-ship rather than a tertiary command.

[@greenbrown7776]

What's the Hood?

[@gershman23]

@greenbrown7776 It's the ship Riker was offered command of before he decided to join the Enterprise.

[@greenbrown7776]

I thought he was offered the Drake. I get the off-screen ships mixed up sometimes. @@gershman23

[@huskerchuck9212]

Yes, there are plot holes in this episode. The machine would also need to have a self-contained and uninterruptable power source. The fleshing out of back stories is the saving grace of this otherwise forgetable episode.