Tesla Magic Dock Improved To 500A But We’re Having Some Interoperability Issues

Episode 267 - Join Francie and Kyle as they discuss some perculiar interoperability issues at Tesla Supercharger Magic Dock stations. They discuss the changes to 500 Amps with the Tesla Magic Dock chargers, why one EV may be able to charge at an EV charging station but not another, and where the responsibility lies to make sure everyone has access to public L2 and DCFC charging, and the importance of interoperability.
- Kyle's tweets about his experiences:
/ 1756191803122876437
/ 1749624708755333520
/ 1749657191114760662
Enter the Climate XChange raffle here!
carbonraffle.org/?...
Shoutout to our sponsors for more information find their links below:
- Star Charge:
www.starcharge.com/charging/
- Kempower:
kempower.com/america/charging...
Find us on all of these places:
KZbin: / outofspecpodcast
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0tKIQfK...
Amazon: music.amazon.com/podcasts/473...
For further inquiries please email [e-mail]
#tesla #supercharger #ev9

[@garrettkajmowicz]

As someone in the software space, it should be on the company which isn't following the communication spec to fix their end. If the protocol specification is under-specified or vague, Postel's Law comes into play and both sides need to be robust against strange interpretations. But in this case it sounds like the problem is with the Golf and so it should be on the vehicle manufacturer. I'd go so far as to suggest that a recall should be ordered for something this important.

[@idocmirk]

No one will complain about meeting the exact standard if their car successfully charges.

[@fjalics]

I remember a video where there was a big get together of both charger companies, and vehicle manufacturers, and they tested. I'm a big fan of testing, because that's how you find out that somebody is not following the spec, or about strange interpretations. Of course there is no test like production.😉

[@JohnRoss1]

Coda🔋🔋🔌🔌?

[@mikecarter2737]

Compliance car. Good chance the charging components were from vendors, not VW itself. Low probability of getting fixed; if anyone can do it, Kyle can.

[@brandenflasch]

500A on Magic Dock is a big deal!

[@Paul-cj1wb]

It's a huge deal. Just like the V4 chargers being upgraded/installed to offer the full 800v it's suppose to provide will be. I think they're just collecting more charging data on their Cybertruck before starting with that and allowing the CT to charge at it's proper maximum speeds.

[@rabidpb]

I think the real problem is the CCS standard. It is too vague and open to interpretation, such that both car and charger can conform to the standard and still be unable to talk. The only way to resolve the ambugioties is to amend the standard document.

[@christophersiano969]

In the not too distant future, it will be required by all charge manufacturers in the North American market that they must visit Kyle's home and certify that they can charge his entire fleet. (^_^)

[@lesliefranklin1870]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.

[@kylelarson4012]

100% on the automaker to fix their cars to the standard.

[@patrickhornacek8593]

100% Volkswagen’s problem to solve. Tesla can’t be wasting time and cluttering the communications because of incompetence from these manufacturers who can’t meet a standard. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@Gazer75]

In this case its on VW for sure. But there are so many weird issues that should not even exist. Wonder if they even care to follow the standard protocols. A car that can not charge on a charger model that is already out there, and the charger manufacturer can document it is following proper standards, should not be certified and be possible to register.

[@patrickhornacek8593]

Exactly 👍

[@mikapeltokorpi7671]

Tesla has now a general patent for NACS. So it should at least support VW to solve this issue. This was to be expected to have in some models. It is up to see, if it is worth the update for a legacy platform (ref.: e-Golf is quite an old model).

[@tedmoss]

@@mikapeltokorpi7671 Are you telling me VW can't do an over the air software update?

[@ab-tf5fl]

Even if VW can issue an update to fix the problem, I don't think they have sufficient incentive to bother. After all, they've already sold their E-Golf, and as long as the problem is fixed in new cars, it won't impact future sales. This is why, in practice, either the problem gets fixed on Tesla's end, or EGolfs simply won't be able to charge on magic docks.

[@berthogendoorn2133]

Interesting on the EV9 issue it is not only a N.A. issue. Bjron Nyland just did a 1000KM challenge on a EV9 tried a Tesla Version 3 and had the same cycle where it start to slowly ramp ups and then dies, he tried it several times, Telsa is also having issues outside of N.A.

[@robertnyahay7482]

That is what my 2017 bolt does, slowly ramps up then shuts off.

[@frankcoffey]

This reminds me of cell phone networks in the early days. The concept of roaming got off to a rough start and was confusing to consumers.

[@BillPotter-bb6hh]

I charged my Hummer on a V3 Magic Dock site in Glendale AZ. I got 500A (185kw), so this is not limited to V4. Previously at this site, I only got 137 kw, with the previous 350A limit.

[@arubaga]

Three party dances are complicated: Tesla + OEM + Standard Bodies 🐞

[@josh5201]

I would like to see Rate Your Charge return. I think it provided a great health report to owners and stakeholders on the state of charging. It seems like the automakers and CPOs really like it too. Perhaps they may even help support it in exchange for some data about their respective units.

[@rickmorenojr]

Leaving people stranded can also be a safety concern. NHTSA should also require recalls to Auto manufacturers to correct improper charging protocols. That may be the only way to force them to update their vehicles.

[@vikramdias5496]

Interoperability testing is a very crucial aspect of communication, cross compatibility quality across products. I worked in software quality assurance for 13 years and we executed this practice across multiple versions and devices. Tesla along with individual car companies like VW, Volvo, GM, Ford, Rivian, etc, will have to continue to ensure for their NACS to be successful, that there is a smooth exchange between the physical and digital aspects of the J3400 to be super successful across all the car brands that have committed to be NACS compliant. This ain’t just a Tesla game, it’s an industry wide collaboration. You can’t just say it’s either VW or Teslas fault that’s just a pure blame game IMO. We are going to find outliers like this, that than need to be identified like you Kyle did (great job). It’s definitely the VW and Volvos of the world that will have to start taking leadership and ownership in terms of fixing incompatibility issues. Back in November 2023, I took my Volvo C40 Twin motor down I55 S to Jackson, Mississippi, and took a detour to Vicksburg, Mississippi which is a Magic Dock enabled supercharger. None of the units worked and there were 20 of them, I think. I went to most if not all and none of them worked from the app. I was getting a communication error message. I called and spoke with a Tesla rep who couldn’t see any issues with my Non Tesla account. I also had a propulsion system warning message pop up during this trip, so my investigation feels like it was related to the communication issue. I have the C40 fixed up for the propulsion system message and want to functionally test it at a supercharger once my Lectron CCS to NACS the adaptor comes shipped to me hopefully once Volvo, Lectron notify me it’s ready for prime time. I landed up getting stranded at Vicksburg and had to stay the night😅.

[@skyemalcolm]

Bjørn showed the EV9 starting then failing to charge at a Norwegian SuperCharger. See the end of his 1000 km challenge video on that car that dropped today.

[@777Outrigger]

Bjørn

[@Paul-cj1wb]

Is the EV9 not 800v architecture? Tesla chargers are still 400v. Even the V4 stalls still use V3 charging cabinets. So it appears that Kia still needs to work on their inverters to get the EV9 to not have issues on 400v chargers. So far their E-GMP vehicles have used the rear motor's inverter, which is limited to 100kw, to charge at 400v. Are they still doing that on the EV9? It's also a brand new EV, so I'm sure they're still working on it software wise.

[@PurpleSideBlack]

Love when a new OOS Podcast comes out while on a roadtrip :)

[@gix40]

Going to check the one in GA tomorrow. Met the guys who were repairing them while there a couple of weeks ago. 2 guys installing and repairing for the state of GA and AL. Wow much appreciated them. Need more along interstates on these 2 states.

[@lynyrd65YT]

I feel like the VW Golf is an open and shut case. VW must be made to recall them and bring their charging into spec. If VW actually cares about sustainability, they shouldn’t be making these cars less useful over time. Charging operators can’t be expected to screw with their standards compliant communication just for VW’s incompetence.

[@ChadCourtneyTAZ427]

I feel the onus is on VW to update the FW to be within the standard spec. Or else you're in a constant game of 'fixing' what isn't broken on future chargers, to support products that aren't following the spec.

[@dennisschlieckau8723]

Francie, Tom Mologney recently interviewed one of the new NACS to CCS1 adapter manufacturers (AZD) I think. In the interview Tom spoke with the Chief design engineer for the adapter. Tom asked him about the issues with CCS1 charging. The Engineer said, the digital communication specs are very tight. These tight tolerances are the main reason for the issues. I think it would be great if you could get him on your Podcast to explain the CCS protocols. Contact Tom to get the engineers contact info.

[@tedmoss]

To bad the physical plug isn't as tight, I helped a fellow trying to charge his car for the first time at one of those CCS1 stations and the plug was falling out, I just showed him how to hold it in until the session was started and it worked. After that experience, I bought a Tesla.

[@tombou5889]

What you explain around 20:45, it happened to me for a Bolt in Malta, NY. It wasn't that cold and I tried few stalls. At the same time, some Tesla was able to charge and me, I had to move to an inconvenient location with single digit SOC. I was expecting this to work flawlessly so I didn't plan a backup as usual. That was my first experience with this network on a road trip not in my country. In Québec, we mostly have Flo charger. They are not as fast but they are reliable. It's the power company, Hydro-Québec, that manage them and they take care of them really well. I though Tesla with magicdock was about the same experience and I was wrong.

[@tedmoss]

Teething problems, give it time.

[@berthogendoorn2133]

Yes bring back rate your charge on the Tesla interoperable issues!!!

[@johnnycooper630]

In frankenmuth mich. Chargepoint has 2 ports and the 1 has been not working 6 months and we notified them 6 months ago and last week same one down No wonder they wont turn a profit

[@mewtwo255200]

With Chargepoint, it’s up to the site host to get the problem fixed.

[@steveurbach3093]

@@mewtwo255200 True. And this is the problem. The consumer only cares it CHARGES when they need to. Their NAME is on the dispenser. The contract needs to specify that the owner has 'N' amount of time to get it fixed OR remove the recognizable Chargepoint markings (color and text). How they get it fixed is up to them (Local talent or a Chargepoint tech)

[@dennisschlieckau8723]

@@mewtwo255200And that’s part of the problem. My employer looked into the cost of putting L2 charge point units on site. Not only were the EVSE units very expensive compared to home charging units the also wanted several thousand a year for contracted service maintenance. I can understand why businesses don’t fix them. The service maintenance costs are higher than the units themselves.

[@tedmoss]

Some of these comp[anies were just started to take the investors money and don't care about reliability since they won't be around for long.

[@KaceyGreen]

Coasting in on static Kyle, fumes are for combustion cars and Hydrogen tanks

[@piersdenney]

If you say that the CPO’s have to cope with whatever crap the OEMs produce, the OEMs will never implement the standards properly. Standards exist for a reason, you follow it, your product works in the real world, you don’t, you have upset customers.

[@Gazer75]

Why do cars that follow the communication standards then have random issues at random charging hardware? Its a mess on both sides tbh.

[@tedmoss]

@@Gazer75 This is simple, if you can charge many different cars except one or two, the problem is with the cars. If the problem is with the chargers, you would have trouble with many cars.

[@Gazer75]

@@tedmoss But if those two cars charge fine on every type of hardware except one? There are for example some that work perfectly fine on any hardware except Tesla SuC, even though its all CCS2 here.

[@robertnyahay7482]

My bolt will not charge on magic dock

[@dusty-vo8gh]

On Bolt Facebook groups, people post successfull charging session on Magic Dock daily. Problem might be your car.

[@tedmoss]

Just be glad it works at all.

[@malcolmbennett3555]

charged my Q4 several times using Magic Doc at a supercharger station downtown Calgary, AB, Canada.......I believe this is the only magic dock supercharger in western Canada, not 100%..........the times Ive been there I was the only non Tesla, the charging session worked well albeit slow rate ~45kw

[@JohnRoss1]

3 in Canada 🍁

[@TomVillars]

The solution is for every non Tesla car bought in the US is to test drive it to a Tesla Supercharger and ensure you can charge before signing. If dealers start losing sales because the car fails a charging test, then things will get fixed much faster than complaining about it after the fact.

[@tedmoss]

What? You don't do that already? Just buy a Tesla.

[@xxMegabeast35xx]

NTHSA should recall the e-golf

[@Harrythehun]

What is the safety issue?

[@xxMegabeast35xx]

@@Harrythehun More of a tongue in cheek comment for all of the Tesla recalls, when this seems like a big deal that the communication is incorrect. Maybe, send the wrong signals to the charger and could confuse the charger to send the wrong power. Miscommunication cause people to be stranded on the side of the road. Seems safety related. A bigger deal than slightly odd fonts on a Tesla.

[@kennethjoseph4227]

Was in Colombia SC and the V4 Magic Dock charger only game me a max rate of 128kw on my Silverado EV. 4 days ago

[@Dmreeves1]

Have you done any videos on charging on solar? I’m not sure how it would work if the cars asking for up to 48 amps and a cloud goes over and the solar array drops to 10 amps what happens?

[@bikergeekgd]

Now we just need Tesla and the other CPO's to create charging lanes with roof protection (just like gas stations). Franklin's Charging is heading in the right direction. And Out of Spec have documented several examples of good charging stations in Europe.

[@steveurbach3093]

Those should be Solar (PV) roofs in most cases (decent Latitude and lack of shadow. No OSFA thinking)

[@Gazer75]

@@steveurbach3093 Solar would barely cover the lighting needed under the roof I think.

[@tedmoss]

Tesla will add them when they can.

[@firstbigbarney]

The chargers should have to be built to the standard and it is the responsibily of the Manufacturers to do the same.They should upgrade any older car that can't charge due to an error in the vehicle software protocol.They shouldn't have to adjust the charger to the car that will only introduce more incompatabilty for other cars.

[@777Outrigger]

It's gonna be a little time. Rivians, Fords, and VWs seem to already be working great with Magic Dock. Hyundais and Bolts not so much. Especially Bolts.

[@ericroe]

One of the difference with Europe is Tesla runs CCS on its cars in Europe. So it did testing with its cars before slowly opening the Superchargers to non-Teslas. In the US, none of the Teslas use CCS at the Superchargers. Even if you use a CCS adapter and a Magic Dock, you still use CAN communications.

[@AustinFerguson]

I really thought the rear motor inverter for charging could figure this out, even with supercharging? it will still be limited under 150kwh I believe.. But would still charge at least. So far this hasn't been the case as its been flaky / not working as intended. SO it seems to this point that Kia / Hyundai have some gaps in there firmware's that need resolved.

[@Gazer75]

Only way to get interoperability is to fix issues either on the car manufacturer or charger hardware/software side. The two need to talk and figure out what is cheaper and divide up the cost. If they dont there should be laws put in place saying any charger/EV is required to work with all combinations. If not the car/charger will not be legal. Can't just have this thing going where the charger CPO/hardware or car manufacturer just saying no. It's just going to crop up again in the future as the tech develops.

[@Joinusinfrance]

Seems to me that Tesla has a strong incentive to do as little as they can to accommodate other brands because, like you said, they want to continue with the reality that if you want few problems you buy a Tesla.

[@tedmoss]

Tesla is not in the drivers seat as far as what the other manufacturers do. They could, if they wanted to make a good affordable EV, none have yet.

[@RebelRanger2009]

I wish I could get a ticket, but I live in Canada. Wish such a raffle were here.

[@tedmoss]

Canadians don't need to sully their lives by gambling.

[@whitlockbr]

A policy or law in place to say if the vehicle maker does not play ball with charge providers then their entire layout of vehicles will be exempt from federal incentives.

[@lovswr]

I tried charging a 2023 Mach-E RWD standard range (77 kWh) at the V4 installation at the Lowe’s on Camp Creek Parkway, southwest Atlanta, on Sunday January 28 at about 6:30 am. Three attempts on two different dispensers failed; all with connection error. I think I used 4D first & then 4C. Ironically, it was the EVGo site about 12 miles away that prevented my wife from killing me on the spot. 😂

[@alanmclaughlin5275]

Kyle - Regarding interoperability and the 2019 eTron you own as a "dog car"....have you tried charging it with a magic dock? I have seen two newer P8s be successful on KZbin, but I notice on my Tesla App. that is only lists the eTron P8 and a Q4. I purchased a used one just after you purchased yours...same model as yours...What do you think?

[@blairjayson]

But how much does it cost to charge a non-Tesla vehicle on a magicdock Tesla charger? If it's not uniform, how much of a premium does one pay to charge a non-Tesla on Tesla's network?

[@MikeSTGL]

Glad things are getting faster and opening chargers . If ibpurchasing something would probably need to have the tesla plug ( NASC?)

[@ronaldjszymoniak162]

How about the compromise of each sell not as effective as the sell next to it?

[@CraigMatsuura]

@kyle have you confirmed the new way to use MagicDock by holding the button for 2 secs? Heard from BF on twitter it seems to be the new way to unlock the dock.

[@tedmoss]

Nice to know.

[@mikereinhardt1244]

I have been talking about the supercharger network opening up to all EVs (well most all) by the end of 2024 as being a sea change in the migration to EVs in the US simply because of the uptime. However, I have put that date as 2025 because I think it will take all of 2024 for Tesla to work out how to work with each of these vehicles. That said, I think issues like your old E-golf are not going to be a priority for them simply because there are not a lot of those vehicles out there. They will obviously work out issues with the more common EVs first. I think Francie hit the nail on the head with the comment that it matters what Tesla's priority is. If their priority is to be the charging network for everyone they have the engineering talent to make that work, but it will be a problem they have never faced in the US, and it will take a lot of effort. I suspect they will have some middle ground where they care about the most popular models first (outside of Tesla) and then move down the rank slowly until they hit a point where it isn't worth the effort because of the tiny number of those vehicles around (like you older E-golf).

[@tedmoss]

The idea is for the cars to meet the standard, the chargers already do.

[@mikereinhardt1244]

@@tedmoss I don't understand your comment at all. The older cars will not be modified, so expecting the cars to match the standards is not viable, at least not for cars already out there. Most of those companies don't even support over the air updates at all, much less for something that major (changing the charging protocol code). Even with new cars that simply isn't how compatibility testing works. I work in software and a long time back worked in the Microsoft's Windows WHQL. Every manufacturer will interoperate the standards just a little differently. Interoperability is one of the more complex problems in software.

[@LarryRichelli]

I just want Tesla to update all the V2 charger out in the middle of nowhere and in Texas to V3 or higher. One magic dock in Texas in Dallas. I just moved to Texas and I have to say that it is the worst for EV charging in the country!

[@israndy]

Typically Tesla will ADD V3 to a location and not remove the V2 (or upgrade). They understand we need MORE chargers so spending money and NOT making more is not their thing

[@Paul-cj1wb]

With all due respect, who gives a crap about an E-golf that not even it's own manufacturer cares to support. I know Kyle want's everything he plays around in to bend to his wishes and make it work, but it's like the CHAdeMO connector and protocol. If you own one of those, then you need to go to the manufacturer who sold it to you to either give you an adapter, or retrofit it to work with NACS or CCS or build an infrastructure for it. You know, like a little startup like called Tesla did. Don't tell us massive Japanese manufacturers could not do that when a little startup did it all by itself.

[@francis_lang]

An intermediate solution could be a plug-in adaptor that has the proper software to communicate built into the unit to provide the proper interface protocols.

[@tedmoss]

This is a sure way to burn down both the car and the charging station, what kind of engineer are you?

[@francis_lang]

@tedmoss if I am understanding your question correctly, your concern is heat dissipation, potential AC/DC cross pin mismatch, and/or incorrect/loss of data between devices. As mentioned in the video, the communication protocols were the issue. The adaptors are already in widespread use and testing. Adding a microprocessor to the communication lines should not interfere with the high amperage connections.

[@georgepelton5645]

Ok OOS gang, how far out of spec can OEMs build their cars and still expect charger OEMs to accomodate them somehow? IMO, VW needs to fix their cars to meet spec, unless it is just a different, but valid, interpretation of the spec.

[@ericroe]

No Tesla Supercharger Installation meets NEVI requirements. Not a single one.

[@engr.scotty]

Soon not a single CCS charger will meet the Nevi spec, in their haste to try to disallow Tesla. They wrote that Nevi funding could not be applied to a plug that only serviced one manufacturer. Once Vinfast or Mazda switches to NACS the final company will be the only one using CCS and therefore CCS will be disqualified for getting nevi money. Please take this as ironic not actual fact.

[@ericroe]

@@engr.scotty youc are talking about the Infrastructure Law. NEVI explicitly states CCS 1.

[@lyfandeth]

There is no better way to discourage buyers, than to tell them they'll be shooting craps every time they try to find a fast charger.

[@mattyp99]

Seems like the charging networks likely need to work with state DMVs to determine what cars are still on the road. Based on this info they can determine the standards that the chargers need to communicate with. As older cars drop from use and the standard becomes non-existent the charging networks can drop the communication standard.

[@tedmoss]

Will this take 20 years? 30 years?

[@jackcoats4146]

Rate your charge is a great service. ...

[@kracusomniax3933]

Not following communication spec? amazing, surprised that it is from a German manufacturer as well. And to answer your question at 15:51, Tesla should change nothing, handling an improper spec is the opposite of what you want to do. That's why there is a spec. And on the German side, it might be something that isn't worth spending the time to update, if that isn't flashed on there - could be a hardware issue as well, and if you can charge elsewhere? Why put in a fix for this corner case. Not worth the $$$

[@COSolar6419]

Tesla’s plans for expansion of the Magic Dock are vague at best. Outfitting their V3 dispensers with the MD adapter seems to be a very inexpensive option to enhance EV charging in more remote locations with very limited DC fast charging options. I am thinking of places like Moab UT which now has Magic Dock and Green River which does not. There is a new Supercharger going into Durango which really should be equipped with Magic Dock.

[@chriswestenskow5202]

I agree, but a major challenge is that many of those sites are V2 and Tesla has not committed to supporting NACS on any V2 site

[@abraxastulammo9940]

I would like a 3000 EUR egolf too, but even eUp seems to be 3-4x the price 🙈

[@Mari0o0o]

Imagine putting the onus on Tesla because VW didn’t follow spec… lol

[@justinjones6810]

If I were hyundai Kia I would be working on splitting the pack like gm does that way you can still use tesla superchargers I do not think the tesla superchargers like the 800v architecture so that is why it faults out because it tries at higher states of charge to pull larger amounts of power vs at a lower state of charge it would pull less because if you pill in with 1 to 2 percent it can't preheat the battery therefore giving lower speeds

[@jackcoats4146]

Is there a way to bring cars up to meet the real charging standard? Could a 3rd party service provide updated microcode? Even EVGo possibly licensing charge information to 3rd party charger makers or even the data on a car to let them know what is 'wrong' with their vehicles?

[@ab-tf5fl]

I don't really know, but I would guess that, for security, the software is locked down and that updates are only accepted if digitally signed by a crypto key that only the vehicle manufacturer knows. There is also the problem that vehicle manufacturers don't really have much incentive to update their old cars, since they've already made the sale, and their focus is on selling new cars.

[@trpblr]

I think what we are seeing here is that maybe we have all been a little too hard on EA, EVgo, and other CCS charging providers on all the issues with the CCS cars that all seem to have different backends when it comes to charging and how the cars/systems work. Everyone thought the answer was Tesla because they are so great, well the were great on their own cars (shocker) but will they figure out the CCS issues?

[@steveroper8733]

I certainly have no answer to these issues but I do have a concern that auto manufacturers have a long history of passing the buck on charging the ev's they sell. They have done little or nothing to ensure their buyers have positive charging experiences once it is out the door of the dealership. I honestly have questions about whether the automakers will even consider changing their chargerport location.

[@rusticroads]

If you do bring Rate Your Charge back, please funnel the data into a website as opposed to the ad hoc Twitter reporting. Collecting Tweets with varying levels of information is chaotic and bothersome, and difficult to compile anything that is actually useful and statistically meaningful. Use a web form to collect good data and display the data summary on a website using widely available stats visualization tools to make sense of the volumes of data points that you're collecting. After almost 30 years of being in the web design business, maybe I'm a little biased in that direction, but this is a database application not a Twitter monitoring chore for some poor person that didn't run out of the room fast enough when the idea came up. Do it however you want (you're paying the cost of time and resources), but I can't imagine doing it the way you were...

[@lakefiftyseven]

Going forward with the new NACS standard will all cars produced with this standard have to buy and carry along an adapter plug for NACS to J1772?... It seems like instead of every new charger having compatibility with both standards they should make them only compatible with NACS and then just the people with J1772 ports will have to buy an adapter. Seems stupid to force all cars owners to buy and carry an adapter.... Instead have just the older cars buy an adapter to the new standard.....Let's avoid the insanity and get the conversion over and done.

[@jackylsmith8138]

The Tesla charger is now called J3400.

[@Gazer75]

If Tesla and other CPOs are smart there will be dual options. Plenty of Tesla V2 dispensers here in Europe with two cables instead of this magic dock thing. We still have both Chademo and CCS2 here in Europe, even though Chademo is maybe added to 1 or 2 of 10 chargers at a site.

[@MichaelEricMenk]

18:10 laughs about delivering CHAdeMO charging service, meanwhile in Norway a newly improved charging location 20km from where I live have 11 newly installed CCS/CHAdeMO stalls... 100% of the stalls have both plugs. It is allowed to deliver service to paying costumers.

[@markrichards9792]

I've been saying all along that Tesla would lose stability when they start supporting CCS cars

[@Nunya-lz9ey]

I think the federal government should get all the charging companies together to come to an agreement. Except Tesla, don’t include them.

[@tedmoss]

Very funny.

[@richb2229]

It’s not Tesla’s responsibility to fix a problem with a certain cars. It’s the car manufacturers responsibility. Tesla’s willing to sell their chargers (BP and others) and provide reasonable access to a wide variety of cars for a service fee.

[@aticus21]

I just tried the magic dock for the first time a week ago with my e-tron and I could not get above 40kw. I tried 3 different stalls and they were all limited. It wasn't a great first experience 😕

[@tedmoss]

I got a Tesla and it magically charged correctly the first time and every time since. (Comes with NACS).

[@mnorma12]

Bring back RYC OR work with Rivian to get it incorporated into ABRP. Please please please!

[@tomm5936]

The problems charging Hyundai/Kia cars also exist in Europe. Tesla Bjørn couldn’t charge an EV9 either see end of 1000 km challenge. Please let Tesla know if you have any way, it’s so annoying for us and we have no way to get them to do anything about it.

[@dusty-vo8gh]

What is Kia doing about it? Did you communicate your problem to them? What was Kia's response?

[@tomm5936]

@@dusty-vo8gh I talked to the dealer where I bought my EV6, they say the problem is on teslas side but I admit it could be their way of blaming someone else. It is odd though that I can charge at Tesla v2 sites without issues and sometimes it works on v3 sites (I haven’t tried many times and have given up). The dealer also knew it works on v2 sites. From this video it sounds like the EV9 problem may be worse because people say they can never get a charge.

[@tedmoss]

@@tomm5936 Tesla didn't change their chargers, the problem is likely with the cars software. The amount of information you need is pretty limited.

[@tomm5936]

@@tedmoss the cars didn’t change either. There are problems with many 800v cars, maybe all of them.

[@andrewt9204]

Hopefully all these adapters have a current hi-limit intercept. Pumping 700A through an adapter that may not be intended for it sounds like a bad idea. Maybe the conductors were beefy enough in Kyle's situation but still, chargers only accepting certified adapters should be a thing. This isn't exactly the same level as wrecking your phone with a poor USB cable...

[@tedmoss]

Let the user of non spec hardware take the responsibility for burning down the charging station.

[@ThiagoVelloso]

Expecting Tesla to support the e-golf is the same thing as expecting Apple to provide updates to the iPhone 3GS 😂😂

[@kenwong7404]

Car manufacturers should fix the communications issues if the problem is on their end.

[@tedmoss]

It is much cheaper to get someone else to fix the problem.

[@tedmoss]

I know you are just experimenting but be careful with those adaptors, not all are built the same.

[@rusticroads]

I have to believe that Tesla and Ford have hundreds of adapters in alpha test on Mach-Es, Lightnings, and E-Transits on the various editions of the Superchargers in the US. Once they have achieved an acceptable success rate, the net widens, and then rinse and repeat until the full public rollout (which could be limited by Ford throttling the shipments of adapters). And so on and so forth with each of the other manufacturers.

[@tedmoss]

This should hardly be necessary, just get the software right.

[@rusticroads]

@@tedmoss that is how you get it right. This is complex interoperability with disparate devices, even though they were supposedly built to the same standard. This is normal for hardware/software development. There’s the standard, and then there’s reality. Every standard has enough slack that each implementation can be just different enough to matter. This isn’t anyone’s fault, it’s just how software and hardware development happens. Tesla has had the luxury of dealing largely with only its own vehicles in the US, which still present a multitude of hardware and software instances to work with. That’s much easier than dealing with the hundreds of variations of vehicles from a variety of manufacturers. Now they have to deal with the reality of many more devices accessing its network and chargers. It’s what they signed up for, and I’m confident that it will get ironed out over time.

[@kennethjoseph4227]

SOC was 20%

[@teslasnek]

One thing I'm still confused about: why is Tesla still rolling out the magic dock when everyone is coming out with their own adapters? It seems kind of pointless and a waste of money

[@davidroddini1512]

I think the reason for this is to minimize risks from 3rd party adapters since the auto makers are generally not producing the adapters in house and 3rd party adapters introduce more companies into the mix as another potential point of failure.

[@teslasnek]

@@davidroddini1512 interesting thought 🤔 but when everyone switches to the NACS connector built into the car next year and no one needs adapters anymore, then the magic docks will still end up redundant

[@davidroddini1512]

@@teslasnek “When no one needs adapters anymore” i.e. all vehicles have the NACS connector, will take quite some time as cars with CCS will be on the road for several years after the manufacturers have switched the newer vehicles over.

[@teslasnek]

@@ArbitraryFilmings Yes, and every single one of them is going to have an adapter from their respective manufacturer. I'm saying *eventually* every car in the US will be using NACS which will render the magic dock useless.

[@engr.scotty]

They are doing it to get nevi funding which requires CCS, oddly, there was no requirement to service the three quarters of a million Teslas which will not be able to charge at any "public charger"

[@TJPavey]

Manufacturers on both sides need to follow the specs. Chargers should be required to have backward compatibility for older standards. If the automakers can’t adhere to a standard then it will hurt them and they will go out of business.

[@rwjr1944]

Hyundai, Kia and Tesla need to work together.

[@ArnolddeLeon]

Kyle really likes to talk. This could have been 10-minute podcast.

[@Nebula1701]

Finally the 400V Ultium Vehicles can get near their top charging speeds.

[@mikecarter2737]

E-Golf is Out Of Spec?

[@Nunya-lz9ey]

Yea Kempower says that but are they really going to do it in the US? They have the luxury of using license plate Datsun Europe to know which vehicle is charging. It’ll be harder in the US to ensure reliability. I think a good middle ground is to grandfather in older models with messed up software but make it clear that they won’t do that moving forward. You can’t in enable bad behavior.

[@tedmoss]

If it doesn't meet the standard it is likely to be a hazard.

[@chriswestenskow5202]

Bring back rate your charge, but find a way that I can contribute my experience without broadcasting all my charging behavior to all my followers. Broadcasting my daily activity on social media could be a security risk.

[@williamlathan6932]

Yet!

[@Jeddin]

Its VW responsibility to fix the Golf charging problem not the CPO aince it is VW that made the mistake programming it out of spec. CPOs cannot be responsible for implementing work a arounds for every design error OEMs make. That would be like gas stations having to install gas nozzle workarounds for every car thar manufacturers build with improperly sized out of soec gas nozzle intakes.

[@davekozlowski1266]

With cars switching to nacs, magic docks won't be needed. Let adaptors supplied by each manufacturer be the solution for CCS cars.

[@engr.scotty]

Unfortunately the problem is not the physical plug. It is the interpretation of the CCS spec which will still be around adapters or magic dock.

[@GrillarGaming]

I do feel bad for all the people that got scammed into buying a non-Tesla. And this really is a charity for Tesla to open it up to these poor souls. No amount of charging sessions is ever gonna off set the cost to tesla for all these weird e-golf/every other protocols they are going to have to program in, maintenance, kws, etc etc. Like Kyle said if you want a good charging exp. buy a tesla and charge it on the tesla network.

[@johnlabernik4599]

I wonder if there’s IP disagreements going back on here…

[@herbfst]

Either you follow the spec and have issues and a worse experience or be like Tesla and make awesome stuff that just works and make the spec come to you.

[@lyfandeth]

Does carbonraffle sell my personal information, like most raffles?

[@simson4t]

It was easy to be reliable and unproblematic when Tesla superchargers only had to work with only four cars made by the same manufacturer as the chargers. Who should fix the golf issue. Who will make money on the fixed cars, Tesla or Volkswagen?

[@tomm5936]

Tesla makes money because they have a higher price for non Tesla cars.

[@s3cr3tsqrl64]

Why have a standard if you are going to advocate for allowing the Automakers to "interpret" the standard how they see fit. If it is the standard, and you don't follow it and your customers can't use a charger network using that standard as written then that's on you not the charge network. I mean let's be real, the "weird and quirky" EV's isn't Tesla's problem, it's the Automaker's problems.

[@garyclark6747]

500A*500V=250kW🤔EGMP🤨 28:05

[@mrmawson2438]

Good afternoon

[@puppet-head]

Tesla chargers are obviously rubbish!......Seriously, we could have told you this, the same thing happened in Europe to a number of cars. Interoperability is hard, for everyone.

[@rwjr1944]

not Tesla's problem. Not for one old VW Golf. If VW won't fix it, you grin and bear it.

[@dusty-vo8gh]

Does Tesla need Kia to charge at Superchargerson? No. Does Kia need it's cars to charge at Superchargers? Yes. Seems like Kia needs to fixe its cars.

[@engr.scotty]

I find it a bit ironic, when the government and you are worried about a group of people left out of this critical infrastructure. But it is ok to leave out almost 3/4 of a million Tesla owners (pre 2020)which are left out of this critical infrastructure. If EvGo really wanted to be inclusive, they should also include this 750,000 vehicles which are left out in the cold. I guess it's a good thing Tesla supports them. The public infrastructure and government surely aren't.