[TF2] Rebalancing Team Fortress 2

[@tonyallentf2]

Very happy to see all the positive and constructive feedback this video is receiving. It's quickly become very clear that the health reduction for heavy was a bad idea. There's a couple other things here and there that I've been reconsidering but the main one I'd like to clear up is that I agree reducing heavy's health is a very bad idea after giving it more thought.

[@facemcshooty6602]

Tony Allen

[@luckyclubs1658]

remember (or don't) that we're here to support you and give constructive feedback!, if anyone went to far i will sick the pyro's onto them (:

[@Mrjukesy]

Nice to see that you gave your idea some more thought. Reducing a tank classes health, because you gave him a faster move speed never is fair to the class or the player. Instead of taking health, why no take away some of the minigun benefits? Instead of 4/rpm maybe reduce it to 3/rpm? Insta dying to a heavy using the tomislav around the corner with 0% chance to survive is never really fun.

[@Adder6112]

maybe just reduce heavy's overheal 450 is kinda ridicules

[@Mrjukesy]

@@Adder6112 450 is 1 charged headshot from the most debatably OP class in the game. It's not that big of an issue, as long as the opposing sniper(s) know how to click on heads.

[@robuxyyyyyyyyyy4708]

10:15 "Give him an ak-47" This is genius and they should be hired by Valve

[@drillbitz2816]

Precisely

[@SirSerSor]

Absolutly.

[@ElDeLasRecargas.2007]

Indeed my fellow le tranger

[@El_chara]

Honnestly, even if it's an AK47 the crossbow would still manage to be better lmao

[@goldngamer1365]

Ze healing is not as rewarding as the hurting

[@ChipDrewPog]

I'd like to add that the sentry knockback reduction should under no circumstance appply to the engineer himself, sentry jumping is a really cool mechanic and its honestly really balanced yet unexplored, like we're really missing a market pardner here.

[@beatman6673]

Every class that can jump deserves a market gardner weapon

[@axolotl593]

MARKET PARDNER

[@pacifistminigun3987]

@@beatman6673 agreed.

[@aceplante]

The change would apply to bullets not the Rockets

[@ChipDrewPog]

@@aceplante bullet jumping is still a pretty significant part of sentry jumping though

[@jeymic9231]

In terms of pyro, one of the things I hate most about playing against him is how nigh impossible it is to see through the flame particles. Increasing the transparency would be a welcome change

[@slovakthrowback3738]

YES. I use a transparent fire mod, and that alongside random crits is my main reason for preferring community servers - you just cannot see shit when fighting with Pyro, either as the attacker or defender

[@terluj121]

this is an intended mechanic of the flamethrower. if you listen to the developer commentary, the brief overview given on the pyro is that the flamethrower's attack is "visually noisy" to aid the class during fights

[@raptordan166]

@@terluj121 That was way before JI, and his flames were easily team identifiable because they had yellow and orange for BLU and RED and much nicer to look at.

[@terluj121]

@@raptordan166 given that the flamethrower's visuals have always been at least somewhat "visually noisy" (not like tf2c's see-through flames) and that the JI particle rework didn't result in easier to see through flames, i think it's safe to say that this aspect of M1 is still intended by the TF team who worked on JI, even if it's likely none of the people who worked on the game before it released worked on the JI update. also i don't remember the fire particles being different depending on your team, but it's been so long since i've played with true old particles so maybe that was the case.

[@jeymic9231]

@@terluj121 intended or not, it is still not fun to deal with. the natascha is intended to slow a target, and it is one of the most annoying weapons to play against.

[@Kinda_Nameless]

Spy player here, I can safely say that spy’s health threshold is not his main drawback. I’m a big fan of option 1, as in most situations I feel forced to use the l’etranger instead of more interesting combos. Also, you nailed how unlucky we can get at times.

[@gabbermac467]

I agree as a learning spy Player, 25 extra health on a hardly-nimble class who relies on his aim with a revolver to maybe kill one pyro running into him doesn't impact much at all, espically when most spies die from the unfortunate unlucky (and usually acciental) spycheck, and not often AFTER a backstab. If you want to survive AFTER a backstab you use the dead ringer, which has the tradeoff of making it harder to get into the position of stabbing.

[@doodlesyoru2108]

Spy is a bad class. You are more skilled than most tf2 players for maining a bad class.

[@jackattack347]

@@doodlesyoru2108 it's blown out of proportion. Spy at worst is a mediocre class, you just need to a different mindset to play him.

[@doodlesyoru2108]

@@jackattack347 You're playing Goldeneye 007, while the Sniper is playing Battlefield, while everyone else is playing TF2.

[@jackattack347]

@@doodlesyoru2108 thats one way to put it lol

[@purplehaze2358]

A friendly reminder that the sandman+cleaver combo also ‘took skill’ to pull off, and it was probably the most infuriating experience in TF2.

[@donningdocddmewascut2501]

I didn’t know Dr. Bright played Tf2😂

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

it should be brought back since the sandman doesnt make you completely defenseless anymore

[@arkaua]

So a Scout you can see hitting you with two projectiles at a mid distance range that still lets you move and wriggle about that does 150 damage is more infuriating than the class that can do the same in 0.2s at literally any range? Lmao

[@GamerGabe876]

Dr. Bright. I thought you lost internet privileges after your last stunt with the party “bats”

[@Mochaccina]

@@arkaua yeah because the sandman didn't also disarm you when that combo was a thing the sandman cleaver was infinitely more infuriating for the same reason a paper cut is more annoying than stubbing your toe. tiny little shit that's constantly a thorn in your side and making itself felt vs one and done. that being said sniper sucks fucking balls

[@gunjfur8633]

Heavy could/should have a fourth slot for his lunchbox items, would make him a bit more flexible

[@luckyclubs1658]

fully agree on this one.

[@Vizaru]

I feel this alone is all heavy needs. having access to a shotgun at all times would not make heavy frustrating or OP

[@airlynaces]

This is actually genius, as a heavy main I think the is change would actually be a great solution to heavy’s shotguns being so outclassed. Heavy can now have a shotgun to use when they don’t have time to rev up and don’t have to sacrifice lunchbox items to help themselves or their teammates.

[@certifiedfunnyguy]

This^

[@jaredhebert942]

I worry that'd make Heavy a tad too powerful to have access to both of his hitscan options (Miniguns & Shotguns), Lunchbox (Sandvich, Battle Banana, Dalokahs or Steak) and Melee all in one loadout as that might lead to harsher nerfs to all of the above AND more focus fire from other players for being basically a bulkier/deadlier Medic - plus that probably constitutes more changes for coding & UI than many Valve devs are able or willing to do (at least as of 2022) However, I think letting Shotguns be equipped in Secondary or Primary for Heavy & the other Shotgun classes (at least as an option vs. Minigun, Rockets or Flamethrowers) would be a fair-enough trade as Heavy would _effectively_ get a Subclass or two if he had choices of Sasha+Shotgun (for max damage), Sasha+Lunchbox (support) or Shotgun+Lunchbox (more of an All-Rounder loadout, less damage but a bit more mobility sans revving); I have more ideas for how a few other weapons could be shared among the classes, but they're more specific & less pertinent to Heavy

[@wolverdep4739]

I like your approach at the beginning. We essentially have an infinite time to keep this conversation going (unless Valve decides to dissappear out of reality the next day) so why not contribute. Overall though, I like your ideas. I want to comment on some but I dont think I can say it better than anyone already did. Also, in terms of balance changes I believe Fish Stick's balance mod/server demonstrate a really great changes to the classes and should be look into (but in the end, it only takes one pub stomping veteran to throw all of that out of the window. Not saying it's wrong tho, just nature in these games)

[@wolverdep4739]

One thing I could say with certainty is that sometimes the music in the video gets too loud. Keep up the good work tho

[@Loner098]

Wait, Fish Stick *actually* has Balance Mod servers, what are the IPs?

[@purplehaze2358]

My brain has been rotted by Terraria to the point that I can’t hear the word ‘zenith’ without thinking of the weapon from Terraria.

[@itznotstatic7446]

Zenith

[@jamethen]

I see you everywhere, shouldn't you working back at site?

[@Thebooooy]

"Rotted" by Terraria. I see what you did there.

[@Vizaru]

Terraria is my favorite game of all time

[@Thebooooy]

@@Vizaru I loved it when John Terraria went "It's Terrarin' time." Truly made me Terraria my pants.

[@h0ck3y66]

If the spy could toggle his movement speed, either going as fast as the merc he's disguised as or simply going as fast as spy normally goes, he'd be much more fun to play. The Your Eternal Reward would benefit from this as well.

[@gabbermac467]

TF2 Classic has this change, so if you ever wanna try it out you can check it out there, in my experience the speed up doesn't often come into much play but when it does? Ho boy it's a great QOL

[@h0ck3y66]

@@gabbermac467 I could imagine. I never actually played TF2 classic. Might give it a go.

[@slottize]

I think if you'd buff spy's base health you'd have to nerf the Kunai.

[@ammi5311]

i'd argue pubstomping is not a class or unlockable issue , how many spy get to kunai against similar skilled player ? kunai is pretty bad if you remember medic can overheal normal spy to 185 , without a gimmicky conditioned back stab pick .

[@Mrjukesy]

@@ammi5311 what medics heal spies, be honest

[@staticsphere_]

@@ammi5311 counterpoint; medics usually don’t overheat spy’s very much, unless it’s passing one and grabbing slight Uber advantage off it, or topping up a damaged spy, they just have entirely different jobs that don’t really benefit from eachother (except maybe kritzing a gun spy but… why). Giving the spy his own pocket medic in the palm of his hand is still an interesting concept, though I agree it is too gimmicky in serious play, but also too easy to abuse in pubs with tanking.

[@aSmallGreenDot]

@@ammi5311 kunai is not bad lmfao

[@jackattack347]

@@ammi5311 Kunai is the best knife after stock so no

[@sluggknight7130]

a change to demoman's sticky grenadde launcher I've had for a long time in my mind is to reduce the clip from 8 to 6, and increase the grenade launcher from 4 to 6

[@GravataBacana]

I'm not a Engie main but for me the knockback in the sentry fells fair, you spend so much time and resources to build a level 3 that being able to at least slow down a Uber push besides being a damage sponge sounds fair. But lower level sentrys or mini sentrys shouldn't stop Ubers because they don't take the time or the resources to build as a level 3 so either keep the bullet knockback only for level 3 or replace for another way of slowing a push besides just taking damage.

[@poopyjoe7435]

I feel like scout should have some sort of weapon or mechanic to atleast have a little bit of counterplay against an engineer

[@poopyjoe7435]

I know a scout should be punished for even being in that position but it’s a lil unfair

[@ammi5311]

@@poopyjoe7435 bonk juice

[@lusca999]

mini sentry should tho

[@n1nsen666]

I cant tell you how many times ive been ubered by a medic only to get completely swept away by some random sentry snd wasting the uber.

[@leotard17]

just a few takeaways, - if you wanted to nerf stickybombs, just give them back the damage ramp up he got in love & war, that way you aren't reducing the effectiveness of traps at all whilst still reducing the effectiveness of iron-gripping m1 and m2 - the heavy changes feel pointless, 3% speed does nothing for him and just rounds out the numbers, decreasing his health is pointless and would fuck with carefully balanced damage thresholds that both the heavy and all weapons in the game are and arguably have been balanced around since QWTF - i'd go for a lot more drastic version of the first set of spy changes, such as making modded spy sprint vanilla and giving the "silent killer" stat to all knives, as a general rule the health of a class should almost never be changed outside of drastic situations with no visible alternative solution - with (bugged) dps that has about as much of an effect as taking a warm piss on the faces of your enemy, i'll play devil's advocate in the 20% corner and say that if anything, pyro needs a buff, airblast's hitbox is massive because the blast radius of rocket launchers, grenades and stickybombs is even larger, nerfing it makes him a non-threat to experienced explosive classes who'd just wither him away with splash, add on the indirect nerf to airblast via soldier/demo's damage nerfs and the proposed nerf to afterburn, already the weakest ability in the game with how easy it is to extinguish and you've preformed a kennedy-level assassination on what is already essentially a walking gimp suit ragdoll class, perhaps your intention considering shitting on pyro is a tf2 youtuber rite of passage, if you really want to make a fair, less airblast-oriented pyro, just revert the april 2010 flamethrower changes, weakening airblast in favour of making pyro's primary fire a far more deadly asset - the "0.2" argument is pointless considering quickscoping is far from the only mechanic with this time window/a similar time window, with an example being the aforementioned airblast, the "it takes skill" argument is just as pointless considering the sandman-cleaver combo took skill and still made you want to drop dead from fucking cholera every time you had to fight it, the problem with sniper is that he's uninteractive and actively encourages players to never engage with his gameplay, an incredibly unhealthy design, these changes do nothing to address this issue although i can't really blame you considering how monumental of a task "balancing" sniper is sorry if this looks like alphabet fucking soup, i've tried to organise it into bulletpoints but if you need more calification/just wanna talk about it reply and i'll hit you up, cool video

[@JS-iu3ce]

I wouldn’t be too upset with the headshot delay if you physically could not shoot during the time window. Because shooting and it counting as a body shot would probably feel quite clunky and frustrating

[@spoon9141]

I think giving sniper an actual scoping animation when he scopes in to accommodate the headshot delay is a good idea

[@NoHands46]

@@spoon9141 that's a great idea

[@boobgoogler]

Haha classic

[@Vizaru]

@@spoon9141 this is exactly what I imagine when I hear quickscope delay. simply a slower scope animation, so that you can still feel "fast" by shooting as soon as you scope in.

[@sunparasite]

thanks for putting chapters in cause that intro was long as hell

[@IInferno]

Well structured, well put together, somewhat fair sample size, solid video Tony, looking forward to future stuff, nice to have you back.

[@liligote]

I always thought heavy should be able to use the shotgun and the sandvich at the same time. It would give him mobility without a direct speed buff as well as giving him a reliable secondary for repositioning. The sandvich gives heavy the sustain he needs but without it his huge health pool is just one and done without medics or nearby health packs. PO10TIAL made an incredible video about this.

[@russainhockeypuckman7376]

I've always thought about this, letting the heavy equip shotguns on both gun slots would be fun. and you could take 2 shotguns into the fight and that would be amazing (also buff the family business).

[@liligote]

@@russainhockeypuckman7376 I was thinking it would be a whole new slot for shotguns maybe there could just be a whole new primary for fat scout

[@pandapruitt2542]

Ok so the video was great BUT I really suggest lowering the volume on the transitions or atleast bringing your voice up in post to match them...its HUGE loud to TINY quiet back to back Also the heavy health lower was an awful idea, he needs more speed but maybe the way to make him more interesting is to give him something akin to rocket jumping but unique to him yknow? Some sort of unique thing he could do that wasnt just "can't move can't die either"

[@GeneralZimmer]

Was gonna say this! I think I missed some things because I was focused on constantly adjusting the volume and being ready for whenever the boss music appeared

[@LightCrib2]

16:15 This sound clip would match perfectly with Scout saying "You listening? Okay. Heh" in Meet The Scout

[@DaBumo]

There is one buff for the heavy that wouldn't change much, but it would make him more fun (mainly for his subclasses), and that is increasing his base melee damage (or switch to speed). Heavy already has a slower than average attack speed on melee's, and making him do around 75 - 85 damage per pop could make him more viable when in close quarters, without his minigun spun up. (Edit: also making the damage to that 80 per pop would mean the warrior's spirit would 2 shot soldiers and 3 shot heavies and could one shot every base health class with a crit which would be quite powerful if the heavy was speedier as suggested)

[@Vizaru]

this is a unique change I haven't heard yet, but I really like. there is already precedence with scout for non-standard melee speed and damage. imagine heavy with a slightly slower but very powerful melee. 90 damage would be nice as it can two shot everyone but soldier and heavy.

[@whirl3690]

"Heavy already has a slower than average attack speed on melee's" Uh... No, he doesn't.

[@DaBumo]

@@whirl3690 Oh.. I really thought they did, but after double-checking they don't. Well that's an oopsie on my end. So making them slower (around the Ubersaw's firing speed or slightly faster) would atleast sorta balance things out.

[@msgameandcake628]

It is possible to punch with both fists, left click for left fist, right click for right fist. There is currently no difference between which fist one uses, nor is there any different when alternating between fists. When using Heavy's melee for the first time, I was aware of this feature, and even aware that there was no effect for different punches, but regardless I intuitively tried to start doing right punches as my left punch had connected and was coming back in. This could be a neat feature for Heavy melee weapons, essentially giving him something akin to Scout's melee speed by alternating punches, but with the standard melee damage per hit. Maybe even give him the Third Consecutive Hit Crit of the Gunslinger for a left-right-left or right-left-right combo.

[@-RandomStranger-]

The guy that has a minigun and a shotgun should NOT get another close quarters weapon. And if he can two shot soldiers as you said, at MINIMUM, the buffalo steak sandwich will let heavy one shot light classes with a single punch

[@shanemacmillan5732]

Remember the sandman combo? Everyone hated sandman-cleaver and it still had; a minimum range requirement, 2 projectiles that you could fire both .67s apart at the absolute fastest, and a 6s cooldown that left you without a secondary. It was a slightly safer version of what you can do now with crit-a-cola sans oneshotting a medic. It's not even about "don't peek the sightline" there will be times a good sniper with a half decent team will peak You, and there will be nothing you can do to stop it, your team will loose a player.

[@ImDaRealBoi]

Apparently, there might have been something in development for spy where he could build traps of some sort, kind of like the engi pda. My suggestion? Allow spy to act more like the backline espionage speciliast he looks like and give new item types to take the place of the sapper slot in the form of special traps. Maybe tripwires? Maybe a climbing rope to scale walls? Maybe anything, but allow for him to replace the sapper with something more active or defensive. Also, my sniper suggestion is to make him have a laser sight that reveals where he's aiming sort of like the machina. On quickscoping, his laser sight quickly flashes at full brightness before becoming transparent again. Then as he charges up, the sight gains opacity again. Snipers holding sightlines at a full charge will be apparent when doing so, which makes it a little less of a struggle/pain in the ass to insta die to snipers from a full charge shot. I know they can just face another surface to hide the line, but snipers still have to flick back

[@beatman6673]

I don't think the sapper will ever go away but it would be cool to give him a trap weapon that takes up the same slot

[@notnoob9274]

This is a great suggestion ngl

[@AliceLoverdrive]

I'd say for sniper, the best way is to _embrace_ quickscoping. Reverse the charge, so it starts at the max and rapidly decays, making quickscoping the only viable way to shoot people.

[@nathanfrank9469]

@@AliceLoverdrive Sorry but that is a terrible change. You know that means sniper would be able to deal 450 damage instantly with a quick scope right?

[@AliceLoverdrive]

@@nathanfrank9469 I've sat through ~8 hours of replays recently, and I've been killed by a quickscope exactly one time. The shit is hard, that screamy guy has way overblown the issue.

[@Pogi820.]

About pyro: If you change airblast: Do not change its height or you can't push enemies up Actually it needs a slight fix to put it in the middle of the pyro instead of slightly up. The dev team made airblast hitbox consistent for a reason, half the pyro players don't even know how flame particles work... I don't mind other dimensions which require testing but please remember that the airblast size doesn't portray well in game, the current airblast punishes timing at close range yet compensates players who have high ping in mid-far range. (have you seen the rocket splash damage visualization? It outranges the airblast) (also that reflect behind your back is a cheap argument, people literally demonstrate it in custom servers when enemy is touching their back) Airblast in close range is almost always a prediction, which makes it more easy to play around or simply avoid. It does make you weight your actions more, but I if a soldier can freely spam rockets without a sacrifice, why can't a pyro freely reflect those? Your change is interesting but slightly too complicated to calculate mid fight. I gotta think about it more… That's the shortest version of my comment - sorry! Overall very nice video, have a nice day.

[@szczesliwyszpieg7462]

Even if i don't agree with every change in the video, the quality of this video is amazing!

[@RegalRoyalWasTaken]

Speaking as a Pyro main, I love the airblast rework proposal. That sounds like a lot of fun, especially if the ammo cost is removed. It’d make airblast easier to justify using while also being less spammable.

[@xeudonym_]

I would add that it doesn't cost 1 use to extinguish players, what do u think?

[@filomes]

​@@xeudonym_what about if it gave 1 charge per extinguish?

[@xeudonym_]

@@filomes u obviously have a Huge Brain

[@redstonewarrior0152]

​@@filomes I can now picture a scene where an enemy pyro has spent 4 of his charges only for your pyro to light up 5 of the enemy gamers with the scortch shot. The enemy pyro then extinguishes his teammates and recovering 5 charges as a result. The pyro then proceedes to bully your medic at 99% über off a cliff using those 5 charges.

[@AttacMage]

@@redstonewarrior0152 sounds like all you could hope for both has a pyro player and hater.

[@cabbage164]

Really enjoyed the video, just had a few things to add regarding Medic and Spy. 1. The changes to the syringe gun you made, while improving defence scenarios, doesn't address why the crossbow is such a good option compared to the other syringe guns; That being the significant amount of healing you are enabled to do at a distance, combined with also being a decent, far more reliable long-range tool. If you aren't equipping the crossbow when healing as medic, you are at a disadvantage due to you being unable to heal your team as fast and reliably, and having stronger syringes isn't really changing that. However, buffing the syringes also makes Battle Medic more viable, which is very based. 2. The fix of the smoke no longer showing when disguising then going invisible should be removed for either solution imo, as it's really easy to avoid by just cloaking then disguising, making it pointless at best and hindering new players at worst without them knowing. There isn't really a reason to have something like that when it can be solved with a simple bug fix. Edit: Also give Demo a glock

[@mjm5899]

Just make the syringes heal teammates too 🤔🙃

[@Polish-Phoenician]

​@@mjm5899 tc2, the roblox tf2, has this, and its still useless, crossbow is still better, so yea, u could add it but it won't be that useful,

[@genericTC2ber]

@@Polish-Phoenician TC2's syringe gun is absolute ass, sure it may be hitscan, but it's also incredibly inaccurate and is in general a worse weapon than the stock crossbow in that game. In fact the Medic in TC2's entire primary selection kind of sucks outside of stock

[@ZestyJesus]

If anything, just put tracers on all of Sniper's rounds. One of his biggest issues is visibility, since his effective range extends far beyond where other classes engage in a fight, making him hard to see. By the time you see the Sniper, you've already been killed, or are milliseconds from death. Tracers not only give his current location (soon to previous if you have half a brain), but also punish him for missing a shot by telling the enemy team #1 there is in fact, a Sniper, and #2 kinda where he is. Also, give us a "Sniper!" callout as we have for Spy. Could care less about reduced reload speed or quickscope time, at this point. Awareness of a Sniper's presence covers 50% of the problem. Right now, all we have is a tiny dot, or dying, to let us know he's there. Unless we manage to catch his 5 pixel high body on screen for a couple frames. inb4 the usual replies of "cope seethe mald just dodge get good respect the sightline racist transphobe" yadda yadda

[@tonyallentf2]

Hi Zesty, thanks for watching. I find the Machina's tracer round to be quite obnoxious so if this were done I'd like if it looked the tiniest bit more subtle. I really like the idea of a sniper callout, that would be nice.

[@ZestyJesus]

@@tonyallentf2 Oh yeah for sure, more like the Classic's tracer rather than the Machina's

[@squid-boy4178]

airblast change idea Reduce the area on the sides of the hitbox so it's more of a long rectangle rather than a box, so you actually have to aim at projectiles rather than just see them and reflect

[@Vexonia_Music]

I quite like the changes overall that you suggested. I don't dislike the changes to Pyro's airblast that you suggested but I think there's a better solution. Fish Stick on a Stick's servers have an Air Pressure type of system, which affects how it knocks players around. The lower the pressure the less it pushes the player back by, and each airblast lowers the pressure. The idea is to make it less spamable for pushing around players without neutering its defensive capabilities against projectiles. I think this on top of making the airblast hitbox smaller would be a good change. Also lower sniper's ammo pool to like 15 shots so he's forced to reposition more often would be a good idea.

[@ammi5311]

got to love air blast stops you from strafing

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

the problem with sniper isnt his ammo, lower the ammo pool and itll just be an annoyance to sniper mains, theyll run to an ammo pack and go right back to their op sightline sniper is op because of so many reasons, heres some i can name 1. map design. map design is a double edged sword, you make a big, open area for people to move around in and have fun fights in, and you end up making huge sightlines. case in point: upward 2. too much counterplay against spy. bushwacka and razorback shouldnt exist, spy is the only class that can consistently get behind everyone and thats whats supposed to make him snipers hard counter, so that snipers gameplay isnt just clicking heads 24/7 3. poorly balanced weapons. the bazaar bargain shouldnt exist, and the darwins danger shield shouldve never been changed on launch, +25 health only was perfect. the jarate is also a bit op but its mostly due to the bushwacka 4. quickscoping. snipers main weakness other than the obvious ones is that he has to hardscope to get picks on tankier targets, which is what i would say if he couldnt just hit 2 headshots in a row and kill every class except a fully overhealed heavy.

[@Mrjukesy]

I like the idea of reducing snipers ammo pool, but the problem with doing that is, he doesn't need to reposition. If people want him dead, they're gonna walk up to him, and try to kill him. If they fail, free 8 ammo back (half of 15 = 7.5, tf2 rounds up, yata yata yata) and he doesn't need to move. Not to mention the amount of ammo packs there are on maps, and the fact dispensers exist. If people see a sniper doing well, they're gonna bank on that and help him out as much as possible, not to mention if he's holding down a choke where his team is already set up, with an engi watching the flank with his sentry and a scout or random soldier (happens more then you think trust me). Very good idea, just falls on its face when you realise that the problem isnt his positioning, its his team and his power. If he has to RELOAD (3 - 5 shots & could only reload when he's out or he wastes ammo) AND had this, then sure, actual balance change that actually does something to mildly hinder the snipers power.

[@WristFreeze97]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Agree with everything else, but I think the explosive damage resistance could've stayed, the only problem was possibly not dying from a headshot.

[@YouTubeTryingToBeTwiter31581]

​@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 2. "razorback shouldnt exist" Just shoot the sniper. Razorback is a crutch that bad snipers use against bad spies 3. Jarate does what cleaners carbine does, better, for free, and for everyone to utilise. So I disagree about it being mostly due to Bushwacka. I would nerf recharge time and give it option to be instantly refiled only by big ammo packs which usually are sparse and in spots that are disadvantageous to snipers.

[@Qurent]

My opinions on classes (looks long, but it ain't that bad): 1. Scout: -balanced -wepons (because i have some understanding of them) primaries - lack utility with the exception of scattergun and soda popper secondaries - great side grades, peak balance malees - underated with the exception of Sun-on-a-Stick [edit: and sand man (forgot it existed)] (bad) and Fan O'War (awful beyond human understanding) 2. Engineer: -spaming him is too effective, they shouldn't be able to repair and upgrade each others buildings -wrangler to op 3. Soldier: -i think he lacks a down side and i also think his hp is balanced without rocket jump in mind so i would give him 175hp, he will be easier to kill and rocket jumping would requier even more awareness 4. Demoman: -i think is mostly fine, i don't really have an opinion on him 5. Medic: -balanced -vaccinator shouldn't have a crit resistance and quick-fix should, i think this will make medic guns run on a rock, paper, scissors idea while keeping stock consistent, but charging longer -i think crossbow is fine and other primaries just lack utility 6-7. Heavy and Spy: -your ideas seem the best to me -1 option for spy tho, because i don't think the other one solves the issue, detected spy is as good as dead 8. Pyro: -scorch shot too rewarding -idk i main scout, i either die to him because I'm stupid or i kill him while he can't even fight back 9. Sniper: -what you said and i would also give all of his primiries except huntsman charge dependant headshots like classic has, but based on how far enemy is, at close range full charge required to headshot and the farther away the enemy is the sooner he can be headshot

[@d4nny912]

I don’t get why people care when your content is similar to others like it’s not like it’s identical ur still original and genuine in ur vids man keep it up 👍

[@IgorNetoAnimation]

As a spy main, I feel like the problem with spy is just how clunky he is, giving him a bunch of QOL changes would benefit him, after that, buff with with a very small movement speed to run slightly faster than Medic, then make his decloak just as fast as his cloak, as of right now decloaking takes twice as long as cloaking and it just feels so slow in the moment when you need to quickly get a kill and dip. As for the Pyro, I feel like the proposed airblast mechanic isn't a good idea, soldier and demoman are the most annoying spam classes so it's only fair if a Pyro can redirect that whole mess back at them, more soldiers should learn how to use a shotgun, it would also make pyro even less viable than he is in Competitive.

[@TheGeneral177]

I think sniper should lean into a more tunnel-vision nerf. I think making it so he doesn't descope after shots and making the process of scoping/descoping take significantly longer. This would give an advantage to flanking classes which the sniper could lose track of when scoped. It also kinda fixes the quickscoping issue as the decision to scope becomes a much more important issue as it makes you more vulnerable due to the time investment to scope then shoot. I think your proposed changes should still be applied over top of this to reduced snipers overall damage output and allow for easier detection of snipers.

[@masterchefmarshall]

I honestly think that, that would be overkill. I agree that snipers quick scope ability is op af. However I think that making you hard scope like that makes it neigh impossible deal with anyone at mid to close range. Like if you scoped in and then you hear a spy. You are just fucked. Like you will take too long to scope out and insta die making it really hard to even want to play sniper then. Because you essentially just do not want to scope in.

[@zombieranger3410]

@@masterchefmarshall Sniper also has access to the anti-backstab item so I’d say its fair.

[@Kidgoo]

@@zombieranger3410 We are ignoring unlocks, and that is by far one of the worst unlocks in the game. It is its own problem entirely.

[@Nibelungenwarmongers]

The main problem with sniper is his camping playstyle in long-range while other guys plays mid/close-range movenent shooter. I think he should be enforced to play more aggressive and near of his enemies.

[@CoolyCools]

​@@masterchefmarshallhonestly i dont care if sniper becomes underpowered, seriously fuck that if that makes everyone stop playing sniper im in

[@lightningkitten]

-a dim, thin, translucent laser line between the sniper rifle and its scoped point of aim to act as a visible yet subtle cue for the opposing team -damage falloff on low-charge shots

[@Nerd_Sauce]

Great editing, great quality, great balance changes, and most importantly, that sexy voice, amazing video Tony!

[@blacklight683]

this is actually a pretty great vid. gj its really entertaining

[@MrxD-cg5xs]

Aight, here are my thoughts on all the nine proposed changes (as requested in a short format :D) 1. Scout: agreed. 2. Engie: didn't even think of that until you brought it up, but 100% agreed. 3. Soldier: sounds good, I can get behind that. I'm not an experienced Soldier though, so my take is probaplyl pretty worthless on this one. 4. Demo: I actually don't like those changes. I could get behind the slight damage nerf, but the clip size reduction is too much. Instead I would increase the base arming time of stickies so spam is less effective with them to passively force Demos into using the Stickybomb Launcher for laying traps rather than spamming. 5. Medic: At first I was unsure how to change him for the better, but the Syringe Gun changes all seem good to me! 6. Heavie: started out good, the base speed increase is a neat idea - but the health decrease gets a BIG no from me. Heavie is the tank of this game, he is supposed to take a lot of incomming fire for his teammates behind him and honestly, he is already pretty bad at that, given the high single target damage from certain pick / power classes. Don't decrease his health. 7.1 Spy: I really like the added sneak options for him. 4 seconds longer cloak would have a good impact, the disguise smoke not showing when you cloak is how it should work (I'm pretty certain that's considered a bug) and the cloak blink damage threshold would make getting through contested areas so much easier - especially if there is a Pyro running around. I just hope this damage threshold also applies to getting burned. One thing I would like to see is for Sentry Guns to take longer to notice a Spy when he is undisguised. Right now they track him perfectly just like any other class, which makes dealing with Engies rather difficult, but if Sentries had, lets say, a 1, 1.5 or even 2 second delay on detecting a Spy, that would make a big difference. 7.2 Spy: I really like the first option more. Spy is meant to be a glass cannon and I think that's fine. 8. Pyro: I agree with the afterburn and airblast hitbox. But I heavily disagree with the airblast being "too spammable". There is already a system in place to keep airblast spam in check, that is his ammo. Spamming airblast like you did in the clip shown eats through your ammo reserves extremely quickly, that's the downside to it and I think that is perfectly fine. I don't think airblast needs any specific changes whatsoever. 9. Sniper: Ignoring all the controversy, here's my opinion: Sniper needs a mechanical counter, he is the only class that is balanced entirely around skill, which is problematic. Solution: Crusaders Crossbow treatment. He now deals full damage when far away from his target, but drastically reduced damage when up close. Combine this with your points and I think we're golden.

[@pissers7114]

I feel like the arm time is fine but making the damage ramp up based on how long its been armed would be a better change making sticky spam less effective but wont leave you with your pants down when you get rushed

[@brokenbreaks8029]

Ammo packs are all over the map for pyro. Very spamming, can be used 20 times and often it's needed once or thrice.

[@croma2068]

I have many problems with this video, but the Pyro change in particular is really stupid. Pyro already has airblast charges, it's called ammo, and if you spam it too much, you don't have any ammo left to deal damage or defend yourself against projectile spam. Speaking of which: projectile spam exists and Pyro is the only class that can punish projectile classes for turning off their brain and spamming into a chokepoint. Putting airblast on a set timer cooldown would nullify Pyro's most important support aspect and encourage projectile spam (which is already incredibly strong by the way). Airblast doesn't deal any damage by itself and stops you from shooting flames while your enemy CAN deal damage to you, which means airblast spam will hardly win you a 1v1. Even against a Soldier with gunboats in close range, there is still counterplay. The airblast fire rate and rocket fire rate are identical, which means missing an airblast will result in a guaranteed rocket to the Pyro's face. It's all about correctly judging your enemy's strategy for this encounter and can result in very tense exchanges between high skill players. Quick fun fact about Sniper: TF2 is designed as a close to medium range shooter, clearly shown by slow projectile travel speed and/or arcing projectiles, bullet spread (random or fixed) and severe damage falloff that sets in very early. Sniper's focus on long range burst hitscan damage is entirely antithetical to TF2's combat design philosophy and there is no way to reconcile the two that doesn't turn Sniper into either a generic shooter character archetype or just a really shitty class. The only other possible fix is reworking all maps to only feature close-range sightlines, but nobody wants to play on that because other classes can still have interesting but low-risk and fair exchanges over long range (stickies, flares, Spy picking off nearly dead enemies, ...). This is why I am in favor of outright removing Sniper from the game or forcing him to only use bows, which give other players across the map ample time to react and also work in close range, like other classes. I understand that this is never going to happen, but I actually believe that Sniper is anti-TF2 at his core and the game would be better off without him.

[@pandapruitt2542]

When it comes to sniper I really have to remind everyone of the idea of reverse damage fall off...its just a REALLY good balance for him

[@SankyEON]

the problem most people have is that he kills you across the map. also as someone with 250+ hours on sniper I can say that hitting a close range headshot is REALLY FUCKING DIFFICULT.

[@cookiecrumbzi]

Idk if it's just my chaotic side speaking but I always felt like making the sniper bullets have some drop of and travel time like in some other shooters would be a fun idea

[@DodgeThatAttack]

@@cookiecrumbzi well done, youve invented the huntsman

[@redstonewarrior0152]

​@@SankyEON But then again... getting that close in the first place is pretty hard...

[@aska221]

@@redstonewarrior0152 but then again, a heavy shooting the sniper at 100meters away makes the sniper completely useless because he will get aim punched or god forbid the enemy team has a pyro that pretty much one shots you by just firing a flair in your general direction

[@crouton7070]

engineer: decrease sentry ammo decrease sentry knockback (does not apply to sentry owner; does not apply to lv3 sentries) increase noise sentries and all buildings make metal refills in spawn teleporters cost 25 and take 100 metal to upgrade (hiGPS balance mod) -50% healing on other engineer's buildings (hiGPS balance mod) let engineer build speed boost pads (hiGPS balance mod) soldier: I genuinely don't understand WHY you felt the need to nerf him, I don't feel like there's an established problem he has demoman: Make stickies glow and make ambient sound +all of your suggestions Medic: your suggestions heavy Ok with the speed boosts, I don't think it would break anything. otherwise I think he's fine can equip secondaries in primary slot spy: +25 extra health (thematically fitting, enables gunspy and dms, still very fragile due to low dps. only hp change I think is good. Good spies already have great cloak management, so the 1st rework doesn't really help to make him more viable. also doesn't make sense that medic is the only 150 hp class in the game) Disguise smoke will now immediately dissipate on cloak (literally just a quality of life change) cloak blink damage threshold of 15, damage still gives off blood splatters and spy noises (doesn't really do much, I think it's a fun change) buff disguises by expanding their capabilities increase speed by 3ish% Pyro: increase flamethrower range by 50ish% (it's still not that much range; I think it's fine, personally) change flame color on burning players based on afterburn severity (a woolen sleevelet) make afterburn damage scale based on afterburn severity +your changes to airblast. fun meter, i don't think it should lock you out from using it for the entire cooldown though... seems a bit too much. reducing the # of charges but getting rid of that mechanic gives you a slower airblast when spammed, which i think is a good enough punishment. Sniper: replace sniper dot with sniper beam (shounic's rework) add 4 shot clip to sniper rifles (fsoas's rework) increased time to headshot to scope to .43 seconds (Tony Allen's rework [you!]) I prefer fsoas's clip over just nerfing attack interval, i think it doesn't' ruin the flow of playing as sniper as much while still punishing sniper for missing. Also, please see shounic's video on testing the sniper beam, it should be added in no matter what. If you still stand by anything i got rid of or against anything i suggested, please tell me. soz for being late

[@sheacorduroy5565]

The quick scope delay increase would never work because it effectively guarantees that the sniper who’s already in position and has his scope ready is going to win. Increasing the quickscope time actually makes sniper harder to deal with because you effectively can’t countersnipe on offense anymore. All I want changed about sniper is better communication between the sniper and the opposing team. Sniper’s biggest weakness is good communication by the enemy team, so doing something simple like adding a “Sniper!” button like spy already has would go a long way. Edit: The longer reload suggestion is fine. That’s one that never really bothered me.

[@zapadap1328]

Here's my take as a scout main with about 500-600 hours of actual gameplay -Scout - Agreed -Engineer - VERY MUCH AGREED -Soldier - Honestly, don't feel he needs any sort of change -Demo - Agreed -Medic - Agreed -Heavy - Agreed with everything except the health reduction, but maybe buff his rev up time, considering that his biggest failing is offensive gamemodes or situations -Spy - Agreed with option one, because it helps spy's primary function, as opposed to trying to make him a damage class -Pyro - Honestly really inventive, but I have to say I'd just nerf the airblast speed, and I would keep afterburn the way it is -Sniper - Keep the quick scope and reload nerfs, get rid of the tracer rounds, nerf the SMG a little, and nerf melee a lot, so that he's actually weak at close range, like he's supposed to be, give him either damage fall off or inability to headshot (or both) after a certain distance so he can't hit people for lethal from across the map

[@zapadap1328]

Wish I could have made this a little shorter, but it was really the only way to cram all the thoughts I had into a comment while keeping it clear

[@will.g9277]

On the topic of medic, I always thought that the syringes fired from any syringe gun should add a poison effect, I mean, he's firing syringes, they should do smth

[@hamanthaa]

Some suggestions for the spy balance changes to either add onto your suggestions or be on their own: 1. Make disguising more believable by allowing spy to fake fire while disguised, mimic class specific animations, or fake reload at any time 2. Slightly increase his speed from 107% to like 110% or 112% to make it easier for him to secure stabs Also great video really cool it put big smile on my face

[@TsuyAr]

Don't give Spy more health. Having 125 health points is what gives the class this "glass canon" archetype. Option 1 is overall better BUT I'd say you give Spy an option to fake a reload with the weapon his disguise is holding. He can fake a reload in the vanilla game, but only one time because his revolver reloads the entire clip at once and either you hide it without any bullets or you disable autoreload like the madman you are.

[@Battle_Droid_26]

Sniper should leave visible traces when he fires, the death cam reveals your position anyways so teams that communicate are at a severe advantage. This would also punish camping in one spot and encourage switching positions to get back the element of surprise. The sniper dot is an absolute joke, all good snipers know how to hide it and the dot doesn't even do anything on maps that are open such as upward.

[@axmoylotl]

i think spy, when cloaked, should not be hard stopped by enemies, but rather just nudged, like how you are with teammates, except more. They should still stop you, just a way softer stop, so you it's not immediately noticeable when you have a pixel brush against an invisible spy. I like your idea for thresholds. Overall the spy needs to not get killed by spam every time he is trying to invisible walk to the fight. He should not get killed by spam at all, he should only be killed by people trying to kill him.

[@brounee2]

As a heavy main, I'm okay with almost every class. The class I like to fight the most is the scout. It is fun because I'm like a mini boss to him and he jumps and giggles that it is actually a challenge to kill him. When I kill other classes it's a bit boring because I just 504dps' them and they're gone. Now, into balances: Make heavy faster. Being a snail isn't fun. Don't decrease his health. He is a tank after all. Make his bullets be able to stun snipers' scope (it's the only class that fucking can't!). Maybe also increase his accuracy while crouching (like every single shooter ever) as well as for the other classes as well I guess. That's all for him I think, I have other ideas but they are major changes that I don't know if will be OP. For the sniper it is really simple. As a PUBG veteran, I'm really used to snipers, both using and dealing with them. If you don't want to get shot by them, do zig zag and crouch, make erratic movements. Most of them will panic lol. Don't run in straight lines. Don't be an easy target. Now, what would I change about them? Make their bullets have travel speed, and also damage decrease upon distance. That's all. You can also add bullet fall off but I'm not sure if it would fit the game, as the maps are small. With these changes, snipers will have to calculate when to shoot. And if you giggle it would be almost impossible for them to headshot you. Anyway, that's all I have to say (while I do agree with every other thing you said on the video, especially with the sentries, pyro's air blast and demoman's bombs) 13:32 Also it makes me laugh knowing I annoy players lol get rekt PS: I'm sorry if my grammar is not good, English is not my first language, and also sorry if my comment was long

[@krimson8089]

Shame i missed the poll, but i'm still gonna add my own opinion on a sniper nerf. One of the solutions that came to my mind was to give mini-crit damage to quick scopes and to do full headshot damage, you need to wait for that delay to pass.

[@cigaretteeater3286]

wow! that intro song really surprised me! i havent heard that titan souls song in quite some years, good choice!

[@ununnam8859]

I mean you could just reduce the sticky bomb launchers base damage and then keep the same damage for when the bombs have flashes red (they ramp up) but admittedly it would still probably instakill people anyway but I don't think you should get punished for making smaller traps that are more temporary

[@zenithzv]

Hi Tony! Loved the vid! Just thought id bring up some points as most of what you said was perfectly reasonable and good counterarguments to my vid! I still dont rly see my video as flawed (if anything the pyro comparison could’ve been articulated better, and that little mini rant i kept in shouldve been cut, but other than that i feel like the crux of my argument is pretty air tight. I just feel like some of my points were not said correctly, and have been misinterpreted since (me joking that airblast is op for example, i shouldve just said “no” there) I also never mentioned another “solution” because that wasn’t the point of my video. I brought up some solutions i did like in the comments when people asked (for example Fsoas’s vid, or shounics sniper line vid) but i feel like fully charged bodyshots are the real issue. And since the vid was trying to prove that one specific argument was really really bad (and my vid was written and edited way before i knew of, or watched fsoas’s or shounics vids. So i didnt know these counter arguments existed. I didnt have a “solution” to my specific problem at the time, i just knew this wasn’t it) When it comes to the .2 seconds argument. I feel like saying all the sniper has to do is click head, while the other player has to “move his ENTIRE MODEL out of sight” is framed unfairly. If we’re going to chalk down “clicking heads” as just that, then it would be just as fair as me saying all they have to do is “click mouse 1” or “click the ctrl key” or “click the spacebar and move their mouse”. Sure none of these are 100% effective, but there’s also not a 100% chance that the sniper is going to “click the head” I will say the turbine clips could be considered bs, but i still am of the belief that “approaching” other players, depending on the game is not that hard. I main scout, and if im in a 1v1 against a sniper from really far away, i am going to win 90% of the time (for example: the mge segment) I hate the 24:32 argument because it disregards the enemy team’s existence. Sure sniper is stronger if the fight is a team vs one player, but also, sniper is literally the worst class to fight multiple people at once. The best counter i can give for a good sniper is have two people shooting at him at once. I even bring this up in the video “If the sniper is only op at certain times with certain stipulations (these stipulations being “having the team all the way in the back), then i think you need to see what OP means.” Also its not even a quicksciping argument lmao. Hardscoping is 10xv better if you’re hiding behind your team No dont call me “zeeney” tonerd 25:15 is a valid argument tbh. That was my main gripe with it, but iirc there was no way with basic commands to allow us to test it otherwise. Also we were going for “best case scenario” quickscopes. But ultimately you’re right one part of it feeling horrible is most likely the fact that we didn’t actually click to shoot. We did not get used to it though. I edited the clips in a way so it would go by faster. Again iirc i think that round of mge took 20 minutes. Id credit the string of kills that we did get to the other person standing still. Still it felt really stupid to just stand still looking at each other waiting for one of us to be given the chance to shoot the gun. My feeling is if you could hit the shot, then shoot the gun Also when you’re spectating a sniper you have to take latency into account. What you see is not always indicative of what other players are actually doing. For example the monkey clip. He couldve been scoped in for .8 seconds for all we know. “Bullshit” headshots are going to happen no matter what. The .2 seconds argument exists to pretend to give a one size fits all answer to a very complex question. Do i feel like getting quickscoped feels bullshit sometimes? Of course. But i also feel like dying to a sticky trap feels bullshit if you dont know where it is. Does that mean we should nerf demoman? 26:19 I disagree, unless you’re playing against a comp level coordinated team, or the sniper is jbird, explosivedee, or dafukwazat approaching a sniper is not that difficult. During September i only played Soldier, and although there were sometimes where i got quickscoped by a sniper. Most of the time i was able to get to him, or attack at an opportune time. On paper your nerfs sound fine. But in practice time and time again it has proven to promote hardscoping (look at HiGPS’s server for example). Seemingly everytime someone tries to nerf quickscoping, the only thing that changes is that now the sniper can sit in the backines, where he is so safe, and can hardscope bodyshot / one shot any class in the game. You may not like quickscoping, but its far better from the alternative 27:50 Why not? In a game where you’re competing against other people, skill should always be a factor. When you hit an airshot in a soldier you do get a massive advantage in the rest of the fight, thats why people go for airshots in mge, if you hit it you pretty much win. Sure if its “across the map” then no, but if you’re across the map as sniper, you’re going to he hardscoped. Overall i liked your points, and i think you explained everything really well. I think there were a few shortcomings with how I phrased some things. But i still believe my argument holds pretty true

[@zenithzv]

also I wanna make the point that there is no difference from the clip at 25:54 if the sniper quickscoped or was hardscoped. He could've just as easily peeked the corner while fully charged and one shot the medic with a bodyshot. That in my eyes would feel just as bs as him hitting a quickscope. The only difference is that one required a lot more skill, and is a lot harder to pull off than the other. Also a problem I have with the .2 seconds argument is what you said in the beginning of it, how it "normally takes .3, .4 seconds". If you nerf the quickscope timing, the problem people want to solve, of a sniper being super effective at long range with quick shots isn't fixed. People will still complain about it. The only difference is that a sniper is now worse at defending himself when he is already engaged in a fight. I brought this up in my video, but the only time the .2 seconds is really used, is when someone has already seen you and decides to engage you in a fight. The whole "no interaction" argument makes no sense, because if you decide to fight the sniper you are interacting with him.

[@Pogi820.]

@@zenithzv This is a shortened version of an essay. I'm really interested in what you think about that. Though reading this is completely your choice: One of the problems with sniper is that his potential is only limited by a skill ceiling, objectively it means that his max potential is statistically distributed between the skillful player base. There are no additional caps to his technical abilities, which contributes to his "OP" scenarios. You say that players interact with sniper, which is partly true in my opinion - when you engage with sniper you interact with his aim, which happens commonly but there is a limit to how much you can do so, at the end if he hit his shot whether it was luck or skill you are dead without much of a choice. This is also why it is so hard to balance insta-kill mechanics, even when they are balanced they are not very fun to play against because it removes so much of the fight and skill expression (aside from aim).

[@zenithzv]

​@@Pogi820. I think I agree with you to a certain extent, but I can make the argument that anything can be chalked down to "if the person hits their shot you die". In a perfect vacuum where it's tr_walkway,. the player is standing still (or hell, if you're using cheats), and you have direct line of sight, then yes from any range you are going to hit the shot 100% of the time (or in the case of cheats, most of the time). The problem I have, and I briefly mentioned this as a side note but should've went more in on it in my video, was that once you change any parts of that equation the act of "hitting the shot" becomes exponentially harder to do. Sure if you walk in a straight line against the sniper from a mile away, if the sniper has dealt with people who do that enough you will most likely get hit. But you will also most likely inevibately die to any other class doing that too, it's not the fact that the interaction doesn't "exist", it's just different. People make the argument that you "can't dodge hitscan", basically meaning if the person aiming misses, it's the aimee's fault, and not in any way related to the dodger. But this idea is a very unfair projection of what's actually going on. Yes, techincally speaking you can't "dodge" it but as a player you are capable of moving your character model to a point where it would not be humanly possible to hit every shot (again, remove instances where the sniper is cheating, because that's not a fair / realistic comparason). There's a reason why high level scout players move the way they do, it makes actually hitting the scout class ridiculously hard to hit for any hitscan class. Promoting the idea that you can only dodge projectile classes because you can "react" to them, while disregarding that messing up someones hitscan aim is next to the same thing is a flawed argument. If hitscan was impossible to avoid getting hit by, it would be removed from every game entirely. If fairness was based around "interaction" with a class. Then spy is the most op class in the game, which we both know isn't true.

[@Pogi820.]

@@zenithzv I think I got your points, was nice to read them. I left my thoughts down here Thank you and have a nice day. About the "if they hit their shot you die" it is true, however when interacting with non-insta-killing mechanics, you are guaranteed to have a chance of fighting back or retaliating. It adds a layer of complexity where the fight doesn't end in just one go. in a sniper fight that you engaged in I can see the aiming interaction comes into effect, however it is very ambiguous for me to determine how it affects the sniper, because when you dodge, you see the sniper misses and you just won the fight, when he headshots you - you don't even get a feedback aside from "I should have moved better" while in other interactions you get a rough pointer at your mistake (like "I missed the first shot" or "I should have surfed his rocket" or "I should have waited to his reload" ) [in a scout fight you can see many more misses to the point where you get a grasp on their aim pattern, you have a lot more info to use and chances to use the info against him] It is extremely frustrating when it comes to classes with lackluster mobility, where you can't really do complex delusions (pyro, engi, spy, medic), if my class's effective range is close, then why should I suddenly play at even terms or at a disadvantage with a class that could have gotten me any time from far range? -You'll probably laugh but when I'm playing pyro against a dd shield sniper, I feel hopeless, because not only I can't flinch him from afar, my flamethrower does nothing so I am now as good as an engineer fighting a sniper, which greatly harms my ability to engage him in the first place.- (irrelevant example - edge case) You make a lot of sense, was nice hearing you out. I still find the aim argument relatable, mainly because it adds up with other problems in the sniper fight. People have way more control in the fight than what they think, but it doesn't stop their arguments from making you think.

[@ultrawinggaming9764]

As a Pyro Main. I really love that airblast meter idea. Could also add a whole new layer for weapon balancing too. Like I can Imagine the Degreaser having less charges but recharges overall quicker or maybe adding a new flamethrower that has like 2 charges but recharges one instantly upon a kill. Adding a risk/reward type of thing

[@generalgrievous638]

I always thought it would be cool if the syringe gun would not only deal damage, but have healing properties on teammates, kind of like an automatic crusaders crossbow, and it would be a really effective spychecker, as if it is a spy he takes damage, if not, you're still healing your team

[@redstonewarrior0152]

That kinda steps on the crossbows toes a bit too much... That kinda steps on the medigun's toes a bit too much... Different idea. Shooting teammates causes crit healing to kick in significantly faster. Each hit should shave off a second or two before crit healing hits its max rampup. You have a teammate in critical condition? Hit him with a few syringes and you will get him back in the fight in half the time. And this would also give you a way to spycheck with the syringe gun, however, in a bit of a roundabout way. If you fill a teammate up with syringes and then start healing them only to see your base heal rate, you know your patient is a spy. And this is not supposed to be a syringe gun buff. This is a syringe buff. Everything that is not the crusaders is supposed to get this as a buff.

[@owenbunten6536]

​@@redstonewarrior0152 To be fair the crossbow already obliterates the mediguns toes and annihilates any use from any syringe gun

[@Appletank8]

Do note that afterburn being increased in Jungle Inferno also came with the requirement of a few seconds of flame particles for max afterburn time. The flares could have less afterburn though.

[@Adrielinz]

So this Guy on steam made a Heavy update wishlist, its quite old but its still updated with better balance and stuff, and its VERY long like 400 pages long. He DID suggest a new damage formula for afterburn I found quite interessing: •Deals less damage the lower enemy’s health % is. Deals 4 -> 10 damage per tick vs targets at 100-90% max health, 4 -> 9 damage vs targets at 90-80% max health and so on, up to 4 -> 1 damage vs targets at 10-0% health max health •No longer reduces the healing from medi beams and dispensers *Afterburn will be more about softening up the targets - 20 dps vs full health targets is no joke. Dying to afterburn will also be less often. Afterburn duration was also reduced across the board. Other balance stuff for pyro •Reduced max afterburn duration for flamethrowers: 10s -> 8s •Decreased afterburn duration for flare guns: 7.5s -> 4s *Afterburn deals a shitload of damage at high health now (20 dps at 90% health and above), so a duration nerf to long ranged, often with splash, easy to spam weapons is just mandatory. It’s actually the reason why splash flare guns are banned in 6v6, since the afterburn got buffed from 3 to 4 damage in Jungle Inferno with no nerfs to compensate for splash flare guns - they don’t rely on combos, so airblast trajectory nerf haven’t impacted them that much.

[@Adrielinz]

(almost) All Pyro Primaries •Reduced base damage: 6.5-13 -> 6-12 (close); 3.25-6.5 -> 3-6 (far) (~-8%) *Slight nerf, because Pyro will get some great perks in return •Pyromania: Targets under the effect of max afterburn (8s, 2.5s for Dragon’s Fury only) take 25% more damage from all sources outside of fire, provide a 10% lifesteal to Pyros but take 50% less damage from flamethrowers' primary fire, except Dragon’s Fury. All those effects last for 3 seconds, and can be refreshed by any afterburn source. Works on other Pyros - they will start burning if they reached the max afterburn duration, and will be marked with that 25% vulnerability mark *Roast enemies to full duration and finish off with your other weapons! Makes Pyro even more combo oriented. Considering the universal melee switch bonus, a combo of m1 -> secondary -> melee might become a staple of Pyro’s 1v1 combat, and not just holding m1. Max afterburn can be indicated by a special sound, more intense and team colored burning particles, or/and special icon - some gas mask, or Pyro’s class icon, I guess. It also stacks with crits and marked for death effects. 112 damage Flare Gun is real. •Flame particles linger for longer on solid surfaces, for up to several seconds *More strategy. Pyros can use long-lingering flames for area denial. Doesn’t include Dragon’s Fury. •Airblast applies knockback to user when airborne *Airblast jumps! Works similar to FaN jumps, but ~50% greater height gain. Gives some needed baseline mobility to Pyro and allows him to ambush people from unexpected places. Ambushing is often mentioned as Pyro’s strength, even though basically any class can be strong if they caught someone off-guard, outside of Medic, maybe. •If the airblast hasn’t reflected any projectiles or extinguished any teammate, the cooldown will be 100% slower (0.75s -> 1.5s) *Nerf to airblast spam, and to not make new airblast jumps too abusable. You can also think of it as just a general airblast cooldown nerf, but with 100% faster recharge rate on successful reflect/extinguishing. •Reflected projectiles deal 50% less damage to the Pyro who reflected them (if the reflected projectile was airblasted by the second Pyro, the self-damage reduction will be taken away from the first Pyro and given to the second one, so on and so forth) *Reflect jumps are sick and take skill to execute, might as well double down on the increased skill ceiling. •Airblast hitbox reverted to pre-Jungle Inferno state *This is just stupid.

[@thedarkwarlord2323]

So uh, I see that your comment acknowledges the whole heavy health thing, but I did want to say (unless someone already has, in which case I apologize,) that many health values are sorta based around heavies (or vice versa, depending on how you look at it). A fully charged stock sniper headshot is the exact same as a fully stock overhealed heavy, for example. Instead, I think that a few good ideas for how to balance heavy would be to no longer make him shoot from his eyes (which makes certain spots really hard to damage him from) or add increased falloff for his minigun. These arent perfect, but I am fairly new to the game as a whole, and think that testing these could show some interesting results.

[@cokespy]

18:02, Option 1 for sure. People are already complaining about Kunai and DR even with his current healthpool, increasing it would only indirectly buff these items. Re-adjusting the items will be also difficult, because if you go wrong, the Kunai will either become even more goated for pubstomping or useless. Same for DR, albeit to a lesser extent, probably. An alternate buff I like more is buffing his speed more, to something like 112% or 114% (Current speed is 107%) This way he would be more noticeably faster than Medic, his key pick, and in general, makes it easier to get a pick and get the hell out of there. Would also indirectly buff Big Earner which is very cool and based and awesome and sick and nice and cool

[@yurayt1913]

The problem with heavy's hp being lowered is that it creates a sort of feedback loop: Less health means more reliance on teammates and positioning, which means being set up further behind the Frontline for survivability, which means it's even more boring to play heavy. Honestly heavy doesn't need any kind of nerf in my opinion, in fact, he could use a further buff. One great one I've seen is letting him use the sandwich and shotguns at the same time, it'd make him more mobile and viable in different situations, and cover his vulnerabilities, but only to a minor and reasonable extent.

[@yurayt1913]

Also I like the spy suggestions too! The cloak stuff and max hp buff could both work well imo.

[@Small_child_punter]

Your spy changes are great. At least for option 1. They are nuanced and that fits him because he’s a nuanced class. I would make his hp 140, not 150. That makes more sense to me for some reason. And no! Don’t touch heavy’s health! Never!

[@Claytonator10]

Great video and I know you said to keep comments short so I'll try too. 1. I think TF2 either needs class limits, stacking more than 4 of a single class is either useless to a team or overpowered 2. Engineers should not be able to help other engineers buildings, this leads to everyone stacking engie on last and the game comes to a standstill 3. Heavy should have a 4th loadout slot (this is also in a KZbin video somewhere), one for food one for shotgun, gives him the chance to be like a gunslinger engineer on offense while still able to heal effectively. (Also could help buffalo steak sandvich, make the melee only, only apply to the mini gun and you could have mini crit shotgun at the expense of taking more damage yourself). Overall great video and I can't wait to see more of this.

[@Claytonator10]

Oh and make it to where when heavy goes into melee mode he covers his head with his fists. That way at the expense of not being headshot from the front (should still be able to headshot from behind and the sides) you don't have your weapon out.

[@DeltaSkylar201]

Dear Tony Allen, Before I begin on the main portion of my comment, I would like to mention what an amazing job of editing you did for this video. This is the first video of your channel that I have watched (so far) and I have to say it is absolutely outstanding. Both from a visual standpoint and an audio standpoint. I especially liked that every single title card of each class was given its own unique font and a bit of a "theme song" was introduced during this title card, which faded out into the background throughout the rest of the section. That was excellently done, props to you. The music choices also fit very well for each section, as did the fonts of the title cards themselves. I haven't checked the rest of the comments section yet, so I don't know if anyone had commented on the same thing. So just in case, I wanted to preface the bulk of my comment with my appreciation, because you really did do a great job and I'm sure it took a long time to do. As for my actual response to the video and your points, I'll just talk about the classes that I feel needs changing from what you've suggested. Scout) I personally think the stock pistol for Scout should have more reserve ammo. 108 or so, so he'd have a total of 10 clips with the clip already loaded. Medic) I agree the Syringe Gun needs a buff. I disagree that this is the right buff. The changes to how the syringes fly I'm fine with, the ability to instantly reload on a switch is necessary, but upping the damage does not actually fix the genuine issue with the Syringe Gun that is presented. It's just not the Crusader's Crossbow. Thus, my suggested change is simple; Make the syringes heal teammates for the equivalent that they would inflict damage. Meaning that the Syringe Gun is now a viable alternative to the Crossbow in terms of short-to-mid range healing, and the crossbow is better for mid-to-long range burst healing. Heavy) I agree with the speed changes, but I genuinely think Heavy doesn't need a hit to his health. Spy) I'm gonna say... Both. Both option #1 and #2. If I were only able to pick one, then obviously #1, but I think Spy would be fine if he had #1's changes with #2's health increase. Dude needs it. Sniper) I agree with the changes you've suggested, but I also submit an additional potential nerf. A damage threshold (perhaps 20-25) which can knock the Sniper out of being scoped in. Y'know, like how in Meet the Sniper we saw him get spotted by a Heavy and immediately have to duck and cover. Suddenly, Sniper sightlines can be potentially broken by suppressive fire, allowing for actual interaction. Thank you very much for all the hard work that you've put into this video, it was incredibly informant and entertaining enough to sit through every second of it! Sincerely, SortHac

[@MatithiusX]

I agree fully here, especially the medic suggestions. The healing with syringe guns is something I've been wanting for a few years now.

[@MaximumBloop]

I actually really like the sniper nerf idea. Also syringes healing teammates sounds like something that should already exist lmao

[@Nibelungenwarmongers]

Sniper nerf is a bad idea. He became even more camping class than he is nowadays.

[@squid-boy4178]

Spy Ideas Add Spy speed Obviously Your eternal reward effect becomes standard and remove health downsides of Kunai and Big Earner this makes spy not have to worry so much about immediately dying after kills since the effects only take place after kills

[@MoterX]

Thats the kunais only downside that god damn weapon is already way too good hell nah

[@alphonyt7250]

A nerf to Heavy's HP is a terrible idea. It means you're less likely to get funny ragdolls against him as The Demoman

[@Riasiru]

As a pyro main, pyro's air blast shouldn't be slower than a Soldier's rocket launcher. A skilled pyro shouldn't lose to a soldier just because rocket lawnchair go brrrrr. A competent pyro also has to defend either the medic or engie from rockets, so a nerf to his air blast is an indirect nerf to those two class's survivability. It is, however, a buff to uber in medic's case as it becomes harder to separate him from his heal target. (Nerfing knockback on engie is also a buff for medic.)

[@kommu6114]

Heavy's problem is not his high health pool nor his damage output. He doesn't even suffers a problem to be fight against, because of how slow he is, if you're in a situation face to face with him, it's 90% of the time because of your fault. He's meant to surprise unaware attacking enemies, kind of in an opposite sense of what a Spy's role is. Heavy needs a buff in the ways he can back up or approach his enemies. He's not bad at fighting, he's bad at GETTING in fights on the first place...

[@Nibelungenwarmongers]

Pre-nerf GRU and eviction note was made for it

[@DodgeThatAttack]

I think thats the problem though. as heavy youre a glorified sentry. you wait for enemies to come to you just to delete them because they werent ready for you except they are because you make a bunch of noise and are always next to the choke, or sitting on the payload with a pocket medic destroying everyone I think promoting a more active playstyle is a good change to heavy, even if its quite minor, it just makes him more fun to deal with

[@mrhappycoolable]

spy option 1 ideas seemed reasonable. to be honest I think one of the biggest problems with spy which is also one of the easiest to fix is spawn wallhacks. spawn wallhacks don't really give any benefit but you can easily see enemy spies anywhere on the map for a few seconds after spawning: - Someone with your name - Someone who is somewhere they shouldn't be - Someone who pops into/out of existence - Someone who changes class before your eyes - multiple people with the same name (at least one of them is a spy)

[@alternativewalls4988]

I'd like to see a mechanic where if a pyro that put you on fire dies, the afterburn can't kill you and stops at 1hp

[@DoubleTwo2AA]

Yeah there are a lot of videos where people talk about balancing the game, but i like watching most of them cuz i like hearing what other opinions people have, especially yours cuz the music you use is amazing, your editing skills are awesome and im not gay or anything but i actually like your voice, its relaxing. Anyway, its a well put together video, keep up the amazing work!

[@spoopa7733]

Thoughts on your balance changes: Scout: for the most part I agree that Scout does not really need any changes, at most I think that increasing the spread of the Scattergun would be fine, to make him less effective at mid-range Soldier: I honestly disagree, Soldier is in a good spot (aside from his melee unlocks), and I don´t think he really needs a nerf, the Liberty Launcher for example, despite its fistful of upsides, its Soldier´s worst rocket launcher because of how little damage it does Demoman: I found this really funny, I completely agree with reducing the clip size of the SBL, but I disagree with the damage nerf (so the opposite of what you said lol), I think that Demo´s offense as it is is can be incredibly oppressive with 12 explosives on the clip, and reducing the clip size should help combat this issue as well as sticky spamming, but I don´t think that nerfing the damage is the way to go about it, i´d prefer to just make the time it takes for him to start reloading faster Medic: I do agree with buffing the Syringe Gun, that weapon as it currently is just sucks to use, but I don´t think it would actually solve the issue, because the sheer utility of the crossbow can´t really be contested, and you can´t really buff them to the point where they stand next to the crossbow because then Medic would be overpowered as shit, the only real solution would be to nerf the crossbow, but then everyone and their mothers would start wailing about the sick, skilled and expressive weapon being neutered. Heavy: yeah, reducing his health is a STUPID idea, Heavy as it is right now feels underwhelming, taking away from his strongest attribute in exchange for an effectively insignificant speed buff is dumb, the speed does not make up AT ALL for that 25 health Pyro: ok, these Pyro nerfs are just dumb lmao, when you said that you were maybe biased as a Soldier main you weren´t joking, huh I agree with nerfing the size of the airblast hitbox, and thats pretty much it, airblast is Pyro´s only real way to fight back against explosive classes, and with the exception of soldier, reflecting on reaction is hard and requires the Pyro to predict when the enemy is gonna shoot, taking that away from him is a big nerf on an already underwhelming class (as far as stock goes) 20:42 honestly if you manage to get killed by this kind of Pyro you deserve it lmao, all I can say is skill issue

[@spoopa7733]

If you asked for my two cents, I would give Heavy a... medium rework? give the lunchbox items their own, separate slots from the shotguns, Heavy´s biggest problem is not his speed, it´s how clunky he is, if he gets caught running somewhere while not spun up he will get obliterated by anything other than maybe a Pyro, and he can´t just waddle everywhere while spun up, by the time he arrived they would have to move to the next point, shotguns solve this issue by giving Heavy a way to do reliable pinning himself to the ground, the issue is that the shotguns can´t compete with the longevity granted by the lunchbox items, jut give them their separate spots and problem solved, also i´d remove spinning ramp up; dumb bad mechanic, and if this sounds like too much of a buff, make spinning up slower like i´d used too be, but not so much that Heavy is as bad as he was when the game released. as for Pyro, make the Dragon´s Fury stock lol

[@guilhermef.cabral8252]

On pyro Fr yeah Most soldiers rely too much on the rocket launcher, and are deserved to be punished by pyros and engineers Just use the shotgun if a pyro is annoying you too much and combo them Also, i think the airblasts knockback is just to big, you can push people so much with this thing, it's really impressive

[@guilhermef.cabral8252]

@@spoopa7733 nahh Spinning up and rev are core essentials to predict heavy He is the biggest damage dealer on the game, having a way to avoid it is necessary Besides, your idea was same as mine, with the shotgun in use why even remove this mechanic? Just use the panic attack almost instant way to defend itself

[@spoopa7733]

@@guilhermef.cabral8252 I didn't say to remove spinning up, it is necessary to balance out the sheer sustained DPS of the minigun, but it also forces Heavy into a lose/lose situation where he either can't defend himself properly or can't reposition properly

[@thelastmlg2699]

I also liked the idea of turning the YER's silent kills and no killfeed being applied universally, maybe also make do that he is not shown alive or dead to enemies in the team status bars and leaderboards, it would turn the spy into a far more dangerous class because the only way you can even know if he is alive or dead is by actually paying attention instead of just looking at his name in the feed or pressing tab, and you wouldn't even know if the enemy has a spy without changing to spy and doing a disguise, which you'd only do once in the beginning of the match to not waste time. Sure would nerf the YER but that thing needs a rework anyway, it sucks. If you want to see his kill icons still, maybe it only appears to his team or if you are a spy yourself. Idk if it would be broken tho

[@basileusbasil4041]

For the YER, make it mute the player. If the player dies with no killfeed, silently and they can't say anything about it, the YER'd be pretty good. But I disagree with making it universal, play and counter play is important for the game and fun factor. There are better ways to buff spy, which mostly revolve around being more consistent and increasing the amount of mind games the spy can play.

[@louizeandrei]

I really like the idea of Spy messing with the HUD elements, it could be great if you ever backstab someone the killfeed could only be shown at a certain radius someone got backstabbed, it should make him more forgiving to play as. This would make casual gameplay a lot more interesting as they have to actively call out a spy that has killed someone nearby. It's a nice addition to discovering spy as well.

[@jackattack347]

just revert yer. it's such a pointless knife now. used to be fun.

[@somnvm37]

14:50 no, that makes heavy less heavy inatead of being slow tank, hes now slightly less slow and tanky. Tho maybe thats kind of needed. Maybr he can have something like mvm medic shield? thatd be interesting

[@ghostbush148]

I feel that a small speed buff for spy would go a long way It pains me trying to stab a medic while they just walk away

[@SomeDudeWhoIsntDead]

Changing heavy max health would need to change sniper damage since sniper's max charge damage is supposed to be just enough to insta-kill max overhealed heavy

[@Mochaccina]

i love your pyro changes! in fact i think you're being too kind by lowering the cost of airblast. a decent pyro player can generally get any job done with 3 presses of mouse2 unless you're against a spammy demo, which is itself solved in this video. great job king!

[@gdsparky6465]

Yeah, I think that even with the degreaser I rarely find myself running out of ammo, I think that the system of charges sounds good, and maybe instead of just making your primary unusable for 2 seconds with the dragons fury airblast, they could make it only have 3 charges or something

[@Trollface-hs9ow]

I'd say for scout to up his pistol reserve, from 36 to 48, as you run out of ammo less often if you are forced into only the pistol. But other than that stock scout is perfect I'd also say that spy needs his backtab hibox fixing, and the hitoxes in TF2 need a massive rework anyway, the option 1 changes for spy are actually really good.

[@MoterX]

Ok the pistol change makes sense i like that but also i think maybe the stock bat can be buffed a bit cause right now its just a worse stock melee than the other melees

[@Jazztache]

17:59 Option 1 - It's a decent quality of life change, and I really like the 0.6 collision time before cloak-blinking, probably my favorite change. I would probably buff that to a full second or remove it entirely, since then people have to feel it out based on collisions.

[@daveseviltwin11]

you could just give spy a grappling hook. it could be weaker then the mann up grappling hook like it has a cooldown and limited range but, yeah, a grappling hook would really really fit his vibe and that little mobility boost could maybe bring him to par with stronger classes

[@chippedgoat]

Honesty, A realy fun video, its fun seeing someone put fourth the idea that, things core to the game (Spy having 125 health the rocket launcher dealing 90 damage) might be changed, good work!

[@playfiendfolio4777]

19:02 Jesus Christ. I always thought Pyro's airblast was like a slightly bigger version of themselves, not like THAT. Honestly the airblast changes here are very interesting. I can imagine the unlocks having different hitboxes and charges, like the Dragon's Fury's airblast becoming a shorter but wider. Though I think if airblasting is cheaper, or completely free, then maybe max ammo would be reduced due to having less uses to "burn" it with. Good video btw.

[@MegamiImperatrix]

Soldier's rockets should be SLIGHTLY FASTER.

[@jaynichols1906]

Late ass reply, but... Personally I really like Fishstickonastick's garand-style clip idea, where rifles get so many regular shots before a long and loud hard reload to insert a new clip. The main reason I like it is entirely because the concept of adding in clip size and reload time as tools for balancing sniper weapons is really appealing. Imagine if the Bazaar Bargain got two shots before you needed to step behind cover to reload, making it take longer for a sniper to actually gather 6 heads, exposing him to more risk during his reloads and making a single missed shot a massive punishment. Plus, the hard reload would make getting quickscoped while you rush the sniper a non-issue for multiple seconds because the sniper, you know, has no bullets to shoot you with.

[@PurpleBroadcast]

Spy would be overpowered if he could stab while invisible. Sniper shoots while no one can see him + cant fight back well.

[@evil.zombie.]

i think out of all the classes, what needs re-balancing the most is your audio levels. (great video, your voice was just very quiet compared to everything else)

[@MarioDarkboom]

Love the last thing added to Sniper in this fantastic video, I personally think it'd be more fair, I'd also come up with more ideas but brain is mush!

[@2Scarhand]

I had an idea for a simple but drastic Medic buff: +Syringe guns can use secondary fire to drop a small health pack (10-15 second recharge or w/e) -The Crossbow cannot Many people have mentioned Syringe guns are bad as part of Medic's niche as a dedicated medic, so this evens the field while staying in that niche. Now as a Medic you can quickly heal people without dedicating any time to them and cure bleed and afterburn, or even heal yourself which is huge. With the Crossbow you trade that for range. Other balance changes can be made from there (pack size, recharge time, max packs carried, Crossbow balance), but I think that's a great starting point.

[@adna6958]

Cloak Always cloak

[@dont-cv7ms]

lel

[@IAmZeSpy]

For spy I would say one of the best routes for a buff would be to buff both of his PDAs (disguises and cloak) by reducing activation times: decrease shimmer period for cloaking and shorten time for disguise to activate. I think uncloaking time should be left as is because otherwise he would be able to get guaranteed backstabs and survive if he could avoid people while cloaked. I think the the disguise time is just to long because it rarely comes that much into play and it would make for a good buff, and the cloak activation buff just makes sense -- your whole purpose is to sneak around, get a backstab, and disappear, and while he still has to wait a bit to decloak, his survivability after getting a stab, his biggest weakness, goes way up. In terms of numbers, there is a .5 second delay for attempting a backstab before you can cloak, and I think either removing this or taking the time to cloak from ~1 second to .75 or .6 would be fair, and of disguising, the disguise shows up at 2 seconds but the smoke take about 1 second to fully disappear so I think disguises should take 1.5 seconds and the smoke should disappear at the exact same time.

[@blacklight683]

the only way to balance sniper is to just delete him. simple ok but actually the fact a long range class is in a mid-short range game is bad cuz you guessed it no one can even touch him and yet i guess a good way to keep him as sniper without being dam broken is prob just the classic,cuz now you have to wait 5s before killing anyone which is fair and gives time for people to rush you and make missing actually punshing maybe also make the reload a little bit slower. also am saying this cuz i found myself a lot less frustrated when i play against a classic sniper and all i say is "fair enough" cuz just like the demoman nerf now you have to think before doing anything and cant just go in without getting punched for it and me dying for it is the result of the sniper thinking and pulling of the kill

[@cutedragon2303]

I actually really like the medic ideas, it would make him almost like the original scout, with the nail gun, but slightly slower, and slightly more health! Over all, would the syringe gun suck? Yeah! That's the point! But, would reworked unlocks give him the ability to be more agressive? Yeah! Again, that's the point! For pyro, I'd like to see his reflects take aim! Make them the cone again, and really really make that cone tight. Make it hard to reflect, so it takes you to actually be at the right angle, and have the right timing.

[@VisualOrchestra]

Two things I would have changed: 1. Syringe Gun - Instead of more damage it would make more sense to have it do something similar to Natascha, because in my opinion the medic should only be pulling out this thing to escape death, not get frags. Thus, it becomes an escape tool. Naturally, TF2 players would find a way to abuse this somehow but considering it is syringes filled with whatever Medic created in his mad scientist lab, raw damage just seems unimaginative, personally. 2. Sniper - I've always felt having his shots be hitscan was the biggest issue. Why not something that takes distance and bullet drop into account, you know like real snipers have to deal with?

[@gas132]

honestly, I'm tired of people trying to "fix" sniper there isn't really anything you can fix about sniper, that's the simple truth there is only one fix to be had, and that's to remove sniper from the game entirely sniper does not belong in tf2 I frankly don't care about sniper-apologists and kids who only know point-and-click gameplay sniper does not belong in tf2 his gameplay mechanics are alien to the rest of the game, there is no class with even remotely comparable gameplay to sniper, and I'm not talking about some silly superficial thing like "duh, no one but him has rifles". sniper gameplay is completely antithetical to the close-range nature of tf2 it takes less skill to play sniper than it does other classes you might think that's subjective, but sniper does literally nothing that would require skill beyond aiming in itself sniper also invalidates the existence of spy, since he does the same job with none of the risks and wouldn't you know it? spy is a close range class, like everyone else, EXCEPT SNIPER sniper does not belong in tf2 I will die on this hill

[@Thomas-vn6cr]

You did a great job listening to the truly vast amount of opinions, trying to stay objective, and being delicate with suggestions. As for Heavy, I feel that making Heavy less heavy is avoiding the issue rather than solving it, the issue being that making a class that can't interact with movement in a significant way seems to be impossible to make engaging in TF2. This is why I feel Heavy needs a way to actively tank. Taking damage isn't fun. If you don't get to have fun with the WASD keys, Heavy needs something to replace that. I had a concept for a weapon that allows Heavy to use ubercharge in the same way a Pyro can use airblast; in brief bursts to absorb damage in a interesting and reactive way. Maybe it could be tied to an unlock weapon, or perhaps Heavy needs it as a stock ability, I'm really not sure. I don't know what other ways taking damage can be fun, and it we can't find a way, simply increasing the speed kinda shows that we've failed at making a proper tank.

[@moonmoon4537]

Heavy suffers a lot just because of his lack of range, I think reworking his accuracy - falloff ratios to give him more damage at range would make him more valuable as a team member. Increasing his speed up to 85%, and maybe make him slower while revved up, so you can’t advance as quickly. Give him enough to mow down a sniper at a decent range, but not long range.

[@Leo.23232]

syringe gun should apply poison to enemies hit and heal over time to allies hit, this allows it to have impact without using up a lot of your uptime so you can switch to it, shoot a few people, switch back to medigun and heal with that while the poison and healing continues to take effect, making its use more similar to how the crossbow works

[@Nibelungenwarmongers]

Meet the team fortress classic medic

[@getsu0]

spy's cloak could have the threshold raise the longer he's under cloak. either that or his damage resistance could ramp up the longer he's under cloak, effectively making the threshold to reveal him higher. maybe 15% ramping up to 25%, just to keep an average of 20%, since introducing the damage threshold would make it more relevant to cloak as a mechanic rather than the damage (and debuff) reduction just being tacked onto cloaking, which encourages cloaking before you're even at low health to make use of it. this would make cloak and it's added effects less exploitable for both the spy and the enemy, and encourage making as much use of it as possible without removing the time limit you get. the c&d could either keep the flat 20%, have it scale by cloak remaining (which makes sense since backstabs grant ammo packs for invis and c&d), or possibly encourage using the scaling resistance to build up tankiness and therefore move into more risky spots when you've been cloaked for a bit. basically, a spy's cloak gets more effective the better his movement is when escaping a situation, and once he's been under cloak and noone could know where he is anyway, being invisible actually works as no one's gonna accidentally chip shot him and be rewarded for it, and he can use every last bit of cloak to focus on avoiding being in the line of higher damage sources without worrying equally about the lower damage sources revealing him just as easily. also, maybe a similar mechanic to tfc's spy where if 2 cloaked spies bump into each other, they both immediately uncloak and are forced to rely on their DM to escape since they're likely both alone in the flank.

[@kingstaze9696]

Loved the video! The changes felt fair, and I especially loved the pyro changes. Anything to incentivize playing him more intelligently, as he has some seriously cool tech and combos that make him my favorite. It even solves the issue of airblast spamming back an uber, to an extent. The heavy changes felt kind of arbitrary, as it doesnt really make him more interesting to play and just moderately easier to fight. Your changes arent bad at all, I'd welcome them, they're fair, but again, they feel kind of arbitrary.

[@fearlesswee5036]

Personally for sniper I think he has 3 primary issues: 1- Quickscoping. Nuff said. 2 - Having a buttload of ammo, with no need to reload, and being behind the lines 90% of the time he can easily grab an ammo pack, walk up to a dispenser, or even resupply cabinet with minimal issue. There's effectively no skill ceiling because of this, a good sniper can just rattle off headshot after headshot after headshot, and is extremely broken. 3 - Sometimes it can be hard to tell where a sniper's sightline is, the dot kinda helps sometimes but it's not always visible, like if there's no wall directly ahead of the sniper's sightline and you come from the side you'll just get deleted with no warning, and your killcam zooms to a sniper 2 countries away. If I was in-charge of rebalancing sniper, I'd implement the longer quickscoping time you mentioned, nerf quickscope damage (still able to oneshot scouts, but leaves other classes with just barely enough health to duck into cover in time before the sniper can quickscope again) but I'd also make his rifle need to reload; it'd hold 4 rounds, and reloads one round at a time slightly faster than the shotgun. (This way a sniper can reload 1 round after every shot for a slower overall ROF but no real downtime, or he can rattle off 4 shots like he normally can but with a noticeable downtime where he has to reload all 4.) Shounic did an experiment where you could see directly where a sniper is aiming with a laser pointer, and that had some issues, so I think maybe the laser pointer could start invisible, but slowly grow in visibility the higher the sniper's charge meter is. This would also help communicate that a sniper has his crosshair over your head and is charging up a shot to take you out.

[@thecluckster3908]

I feel like syringe gun damage shouldn’t be buffed as I view them as something you use when you got no one protecting you or if someone with low health is running away. Instead I would give them some sort of utility that would help in certain scenarios. Maybe better mobility idk

[@oranbluethorn3956]

Gotta say as a pyro main, im so glad you didnt go the route that like, half the community goes when it comes to Pyro. Aka either "Remove him entirely", "Make his stock become dragons fury", or "Make fire do 1 damage a second". I honestly would like these changes, make airblast a lot more skillful than "If projectile gets inside your screen at all: No" without just outright gutting him like many players seem to wanna do. Good changes, agree with fully