tf2’s huntsman hit detection is magnetic

Music: Art of Rally OST - Victory or Death
channel discord --- / discord
channel patreon --- / shounic
channel tracker --- trello.com/b/L...
[ todo list / current progress on upcoming videos / channel roadmap ]
feedback --- forms.gle/bkuG...
custom files --- pastebin.com/r...
[ hud / crosshairs / hitsound / killsound / gfx cfg ]
big thanks to: Mustache for their contributions in research
old title:
"tf2’s huntsman hit detection is “magnetic”; how “misses” still count as hits; huntsman hitboxes :)"
FAQ:
Q: How did you make that? What editing software do you use?
A: I use Adobe Photoshop, Premiere Pro & After Effects. Photoshop for image editing and thumbnails. Premiere Pro for compositing and After Effects for motion graphics (the fancy animations).

[@shounic]

heya, this is my first video after moving to new home so i apologize for the shoddy audio. i didn't want to delay the video just because of the voice recording so i hope it's alright. 1. here's a separate video of the funny headshots :) twitter.com/shoun1c/status/1424421662926286848?s=20 2. note on explosions: the "hitbox" of the explosions are actually perfect spheres, but surprisingly, it's kinda difficult to show that properly with the debug outlines. that visualization only shows up for like 3 seconds of the video so i decided to just let it be. 3. also, continuing the trend from last time, i'll be making a second video - a < zero-dumbing-down > version of this huntsman hit detection explanation, so leave any questions or misconceptions you have and i'll try to answer them :) EDIT: it's out -> kzbin.info/www/bejne/boPNdYBsYtN_rsU 4. ALSO ALSO, to pre-empt questions about it, the red highlights for the "effective head hitbox" is a custom edit we made to the leaked build of tf2 so that's why it's 1. kinda janky and 2. it's unfortunately not available for you guys to use. 5. the hitscan hitbox debug highlighting is a valve command but it's disabled in the current public build of tf2

[@cielros]

@Rechinul 13 ok

[@watema3381]

The audio is fine. Thank you for providing us yet another technical video. Am going to implement this into my future training

[@SomeoneElseInTheComments]

Audio is fine, it's just that you pronounce "the" as "da" and "with" as "wiff."

[@fluury]

I didn't fully understand your explanation regarding when the tele stuff happens. Before colliding with the player hurtboxes the arrow will always first collide with the collision box, no? How can there be a scenario where we hit the player hurtboxes but not the collision box, e.g. the scenario where we *dont* do the 16HU teleportation trick?

[@NicolasA346]

Peg

[@watersomic]

Every person killed by the huntsman, and every huntsman sniper: I fucking KNEW IT

[@bruschetta7711]

Great pfp

[@mustangwolf1997]

Honestly! I remember killing a clanmate from the top of the tower in our old cp_orange server while he was all the way at the back of his side of the map. It pinned his foot to the ground. The freakout was awesome, "HE SHOT ME WITH AN ARROW!", says the victim, every other clanmate forgetting their teams for a moment and losing their minds in awe at what seemed to be an amazing shot. Now I feel crushed! To know it was a near unmissable shot ruins the fun of that memory!

[@stickmanonastick6089]

@@mustangwolf1997 Technically its not an unmissable shot; pipes and rockets use bounding boxes and those are hard to hit, and so a cross map huntsman is still quite the achievement. Imagine getting a direct pipe hit from across the map, that's pretty similar to what you did. (Plus, huntsman hitbox is smaller than pipes so it might be easier to hit a pipe than a huntsman). So I say, hats off to you!

[@andrewtoasterr9325]

I fucking KNEW IT

[@jackspedicy2711]

i know i used huntsman when i wanted my braincells to melt, but now i know why they melt

[@falsegodamongus]

Oh, that's what Sniper meant when he said "All your heads look bloody twelve feet tall".

[@mrziiz6893]

Especially scout

[@Catto.PK2007]

Lmao

[@insertinsults4567]

he knew what we couldn't until today.

[@hatandhoodie_]

r/BeatMeToIt

[@falsegodamongus]

@@hatandhoodie_ oh my god i'm gonna be on reddit? i'm famous??

[@jonsku6662]

Hitscan sniping: "Just click on their head above the shoulders!" Huntsman sniping: "Idk, just shoot around them, the arrow'll know where to go"

[@RingingResonance]

they don't call it the lucksman for nothing...

[@TinyDeskEngineer]

"When you use the Huntsman, the gravitational pull of everyone's heads grows fivefold"

[@builderbosc]

Just click, above the shoulders!

[@king_james_official]

arrowll

[@jonsku6662]

@@king_james_official 'll, as in "arrow will"

[@stuffedsomething1699]

I love how the Engineer's effective hitbox map looks vaguely like Texas

[@toophoot2757]

bruh

[@katuwu5706]

it took me a minute to see what you mean . it does sorta look like a part of the bottom half of texas at a certain angle

[@memor22]

“I’m so texan even my hitboxes are shaped like texas boy”

[@stuffedsomething1699]

@nerfdartsarelethal I really wish I knew

[@ValeBridges]

It's sort of a stretch but yeah, the Engi's right side does appear somewhat like the southern border of Texas

[@alsoandanswer]

No wonder I kept managing to kill soldiers and scouts even without aiming

[@he3004]

This explains my immense headshotting skills against scouts literally inside my face while panicking

[@ericv00]

You monster

[@divinefaction9591]

@@he3004 XDDDDDDDDDDDD

[@Something_Disgusting]

This video explains why headshots on scouts are impossible from behind for me.

[@Burger19985]

@@Something_Disgusting because scout has gamer posture

[@CoolJosh3k]

So when the Scout is looking at the floor it is a free headshot, but a Heavy under normal conditions is mostly a meat sack with no head. This would explain a lot.

[@moronribbons5774]

Yeah I noticed picking heavies off isn't easy with the thing, especially from a lower angle...

[@goofyahdemoman1134]

That’s why you need two or three snipes to fully charge bodyshot the one heavy at the same time Aka insane coordination

[@ME0WMERE]

@@goofyahdemoman1134 you're confusing the huntsman with the rifles

[@isabellegrimes9366]

looking straight up with a large weapon makes it almost impossible to get sniped for crit damage

[@memor22]

Thats why huntmans just completly meat shot me and are an easy mow down

[@awe9217]

first the iron bomber, and now this the rabbit hole of bounding boxes and hitboxes grows deeper

[@pizzeria_mayhem8736]

Dont forget the wrap assassin

[@stoopidguy4544]

I guess you can say it's larger than it seems

[@sunbae-nim]

I don't care what anyone says the Iron Bomber takes less skill to use then stock because of that exact bounding box issue; same as huntsman

[@lovevonzweigbergk4130]

@@sunbae-nim It doesn't it's just more consistent

[@comfy_21771]

At the bottom of this hole there is nothing but spaghetti

[@Collisto2435]

So THAT'S why Huntsman Snipers are always killing Scouts right in their face like it's nothing!

[@Ivy_Panda]

I play a lot of huntsman sniper and the scout matchup feels reasonably balanced. You have to take into account the scout jumping all over the place, so they're also often above you.

[@Breakaway-ic5gj]

@@Ivy_Panda And Huntsman has some severe downsides, so it should be good at close range

[@JuliettKilo]

@@Ivy_Panda If you ever feel balanced while fighting scout, then it isn't. Because scout is supposed to f**k you up in close range.

[@ShortHax]

We all know shounic has triple monitors and a pro gaming chair so he can see and hit them headshots almost all of the time

[@thatrandomguyontheinternet2477]

And near infinite energy drinks

[@Harrisonmego]

Okay, verified person that I don't know

[@adelite]

He's got the 100 mil pewdiepie gaming chair

[@alik250]

He studies the source code just to find the best way to headshot

[@thechainsawnigga2543]

monokuma i swear to god youre on every gidoe i watch

[@TheIronArmenianakaGIHaigs]

I knew the lucksman was a bit sus. Interesting that the huntsman can just shoot at the same height and score head shots on all classes.

[@DemsW]

not the same height for all classes, aiming at the same height for heavy and scout will not result in the same

[@beppermint4092]

sus 😳😳😳😳😳

[@owenkegg5608]

Idk iron is kinda sus rn

[@Sh1ranu1]

I guess you can call it the Crutchman instead

[@mac6na6na26]

amogus

[@R4ND0MCR4P123R4ND0MN3SS]

Even armed with this knowledge, I still can't get a headshot with the Huntsman.

[@bruschetta7711]

Just tell the enemy team toalways look down

[@yarknark]

@@bruschetta7711 well noone looks up in TF2 so they're already doing it, how kind of them

[@purityisastateofmind7439]

Try closing your eyes

[@speauks_4667]

Aim high

[@pupkins000]

use the force !

[@maxwelleichman6825]

3:15 Now I don't feel as bad about not being able to head shot revved up heavies with the huntsman.

[@archmagemc3561]

Same. I thought I was just bad, but that hitbox is tiny!

[@shinobuoshino5066]

@@archmagemc3561 yes you're bad because the hitbox shouldn't be that big

[@milliondollarmistake]

As someone who uses the Huntsman quite a bit I knew it had some shoddy hit detection but gotdamn. Though Heavy having the smallest hitbox does make a lot of sense.

[@Mantafirefly]

Yeah, coming from any rifle where heavies *should* be easy to headshot, yet I just keep hitting that forearm of his.

[@wonderofgaming2798]

As someone who has 200 hours on huntsman sniper I can confirm that

[@plantgum]

it is annoying but I don't think I can complain though, after all Heavy is usually unplayable whenever there is 2 or more snipers on the enemy team

[@TheOneWhoHasABadName]

normal sniper is supposed to be an anti-heavy weapon that dies to scouts it’s quite interesting to see that huntsman is the opposite; use it when there are like 5 scouts trying to kill you with a fish

[@Mantafirefly]

@@TheOneWhoHasABadName You still die most of the time, but sometimes you luck out.

[@Sqlslammer]

Finally, an answer to the question: "How is that not DIRECTLY in his GIANT HEAD?"

[@hunterhaon4265]

I'm calling it now, we're gonna see a lot more huntsmen

[@sovietraccoon6007]

I'm already seeing more :( playing scout is a nightmare

[@josephjoestar3275]

You are correct

[@phoonwax]

ive always played huntsman more as sniper, so nothing has changed

[@hunterhaon4265]

@@phoonwax I'm probly going to pick up huntsman if I go back

[@Zenith_Guard]

Now go play pyro and get some reflect arrow kills >:)

[@matthewwhiteside4619]

Have you considered test how the huntsman feels with this disabled? Like in the auto aim video, when you showed how annoying it was to aim projectiles without it. I just wonder if it works this way because it's too frustrating to use the huntsman otherwise.

[@Mantafirefly]

It'd be near impossible, since basically all projectiles, not just rockets and grenades, use bounding boxes for collisions because it's much more efficient. The only thing you could do with the huntsman easily is to just disable headshots entirely, which what the crossbow does. Besides, think of how hard it is to hit with syringes... Even those use the bounding box collision.

[@Mantafirefly]

@smelly paws Yeah, but can you actually hit anything?

[@pinguin4898]

@smelly paws try it in an exhibition match or in the training mode

[@ewio1326]

probably frustrating, or at least very unintuitive. projectiles don't have lag compensation like hitscan does, so even if you led your aim perfectly on a moving target, having high ping would cause it to miss.

[@bloodraven2o1o]

There was some medieval mode in tf2 long ago where most classes could only use melee weapons, but the sniper kept his bow. I remember it was a lot harder to hit the shots, probably because the bounding box collision was disabled for that. So if you can find a way to play that mode you will see how it is

[@TheTSense]

And I believed aiming above them was balancing out the arrow drop

[@QuantumLeclerc]

The arrow knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the arrow from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the arrow is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the game. However, the arrow must also know where it was.

[@Jakugen0]

Indubitably

[@2BrosOfficialGaming]

i dont remember where exactly this is from but ive heard it before, i think in one of those mediashare stream things whatever they’re called

[@QuantumLeclerc]

@@2BrosOfficialGaming It's a USAF satirical training video

[@Noooo23523]

bruh

[@2BrosOfficialGaming]

@@QuantumLeclerc thank you

[@salsamancer]

Scout: "You'll never hit me! You'll never hit my tiny head!" Source: 2:22

[@Spartan375X]

5:56

[@elfasto2255]

Scout: Ah crap.

[@staringgasmask]

@@Spartan375X by 45 NATO

[@oogaooga0000]

ironic how the smaller the target is, the more likely you're getting a headshot.

[@seronymus]

BONK

[@LDMythos]

This explains how I managed to be so good right away with the Huntsman back in the days of the Sniper vs. Spy update... and it's pretty disheartening.

[@BlazingShadowSword]

The engineer has fucked with the huntsman arrows to test whether or not he could make teleporting bullets. The results have been...inconclusive so far, but the sniper has been making homemade unicorns a lot more, recently.

[@xilpes6254]

Imagine if the lore tried to justify Source Spaguetti, shit would be funny as hell

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

@@xilpes6254 "Scout's Wrap Assassin is equipped with ornaments, or baubles, as I'm sure you're aware. What you don't know, however, is that these baubles are cheaply made, and sometimes break upon impact from too much air resistance."

[@rickywalters7717]

@@xilpes6254 I want more of this, honest to god. Let's go with... Trimping! Best I can do is the explanation MTA Demoman came up with: Got drunk and started decapitating people.

[@dagda1180]

@@rickywalters7717 "Demoman's ability to climb and catapult himself results from the almost godlike intuitive skill of physics he acquires while very inebriated. Perhaps it is the eyelander giving him some knowledge too. Another thing worth mentioning is the shield: It doesn't physically give him the ability to charge or higher protective values; he just 'feels' like it does."

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

“The reason we have to be careful when crossing the road is because if you and a friend happen to be side by side when getting run over, you have a 50% chance of fusing. This has been solved by eating Australium and Invis-Watches, even Australia’s brightest minds are confuddled by this, even more so than the mysteries of stairs.” “Anyway Pyro, get to bed, Engineer’s not Engi-here yet, so night night”

[@DeletedTaters001]

This explains a lot. Why I've gotten BS headshots and why shots right into a heavies head didn't count. And of course being on the receiving end of such BS

[@shayboual1892]

Any shots actually into heavies head will be headshots. It does normal hitbox collision first, and then if you don't hit a normal hitbox it does the bounding box hitbox.

[@TKsh1]

Valve might have an ex-Bethesda in their TF2 team because Sniper just works.

[@fourd8438]

What TF2 team?

[@The_Rising_Dragon]

@@fourd8438 The plant Bethesda gave them for some E3 a couple or 5 years ago, I guess. :P

[@evee_evvillamar4477]

@smelly paws *loads huntsman arrow in the bow*

[@xavis7617]

@smelly paws That's not even relevant to any of this. You've done what is effectively the equivalent of standing up in the middle of a meeting to announce that you have a foot fetish.

[@monsoon3816]

@smelly paws *loads Hale's Own Specialised Killstreak Festive Australium Rocket Launcher*

[@bryannaing6316]

Once again, Soldier is protected from headshots because of his arm being in weird places

[@vaiyt]

H learnedd from sun tzu

[@NekkiNosra07]

Demoknight: My sword want heads Sniper: Hold my arrows

[@Outpost38C]

Sniper: actually no give those back I need those

[@P1CKL3_RICK]

dude your joke sucks

[@ThePigeon5734]

"You should've aimed for the head..." "No, I was using the huntsman and fired slightly to your left"\ "Understandable have a nice day **Dies**"

[@darkridoom]

this is what we in the business like to call a “bruh moment”

[@BruhMoment-vq2xw]

Truly

[@P1CKL3_RICK]

reddit

[@ricardopaixao6367]

Shounic touched upon it a little at the end when he mentioned that bounding boxes do not rotate with the player but instead they rotate with the orientation of the map, so if you are trying this in a game and find it inconsistent then you’ll know why sometimes aiming in the same place won’t produce the same result, the fact is, the more you learn about bounding boxes the better you will be at sniper and at soldier/demoman

[@CoolJosh3k]

I think you should have mentioned that they align the boxes like that for performance reasons. For those wondering: this is typically called AABB (Axis-Aligned Bounding Box). If you don’t have to account for any rotation, then things become much easier for the computer to handle.

[@LazyMaybe]

Really what it comes down to is that this is totally fine for most projectiles weapons(especially explosives, which are very imprecise), but for a weapon that does fatal crit damage on headshot it's very questionable.

[@bemo_10]

I don't think the rotation is disabled on the collision hull for performance reasons, since hitboxes use rotation and there a lot more of them, if performance was an issue then it would apply to them too, the reason is probably because movement and collision with with walls/ground would be inconsistent. If collision hulls rotated with the player then if for example you where standing on a ledge and only one of the corners of your collision hull was touching the ground, then you could easily fall the moment you rotate your camera.

[@CoolJosh3k]

@@bemo_10 It is not something that is disabled. It is something that just isn't coded to begin with.

[@shayboual1892]

@@bemo_10 I think it's because collision detection just becomes easier when they're aligned with the axis specifically. Since normal hitboxes wouldn't be aligned with the axis anyway, having them rotate wouldn't decrease performance so much. And it would also make the game unplayable if they weren't

[@yvrelna]

If I had to guess, the reason for the funky aligned hitbox is because the Huntsman arrow is basically using Soldier's rocket code just with no splash damage. If you're Soldier that's good with using Direct Hit, then Huntsman would just be a higher risk, higher rewards alternative (higher risk, since you don't get splash damage when you miss, higher rewards because you can get headshots for stupid damage).

[@Hchris101]

The explains why it seems like the huntsman is so lucky at getting headshots

[@The-su4pj]

2:22 "You'll never hit me, you'll never hit my tiny head! so tiny, I got a freaking, such a tiny little head!"

[@StickMaster500]

Now we know why it’s called the “Lucksman”

[@crittr]

the fabled tale was true all along...

[@crittrsinnermonologue]

LUCK'S A SKIOLL, M8

[@sugaryhull9688]

I prefer the "Khuntsman"

[@James-oj6ru]

I rather call it the: Khuntsman Cuntsman “I will kill you with my arrow going through the entire enemy team just so it hits you for some reason” man

[@Preinstallable]

@@crittrsinnermonologue i fear no man but that thing (your pfp) it scares me

[@zombieranger3410]

Scout: “why son’t you come over here and say that to my face tough guy?” Sniper: aims huntsman at my foot at a 45 degree angle “no need to!”

[@thedoctordallin]

What I learned from this video: Heavies against regular Snipers: "I'm too weak!" Heavies against Huntsman Snipers: "Unlimited power!"

[@FIVEBASKET]

PAIN

[@noisemaker1696]

I really can't get over how professionally these videos are put together

[@janlohndorf9665]

Yeah that seems about right

[@DEWILL]

Amazing visualization.

[@NinetyEight418]

Hm

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

At least the spaghetti provides entertainment while we forever wait for the update.

[@Yahiamice]

that explains... a lot

[@earlyticketmann8626]

Ok a checkmark youtuber with no comments and few likes that was 7 months ago? Damn

[@squishybrick]

Well, this explains why I'll miss like 18 shots, then suddenly magically headshot a scout with no effort who was running right up on me. This also explains why it always feels impossible to get headshots on players who are facing AWAY from you, even when their head is in full view. AND this also explains why it feels extremely easy to get headshots on heavies, when you're shooting from almost directly above them.. The arrow really Is magnetizing to his head, when shot from that angle.

[@rosar.mp4]

0:03 spy:*sobbing sounds*

[@archsteel7]

... So, genuinely, this explains why it's so much harder to hit heavy headshots with huntsman than it is to hit them on scouts. With scout, it feels like just shooting at them results in a free headshot, whereas heavies make me work for every bit of damage. And half the time it feels like they just catch arrows.

[@alextheumbreon1363]

This gives "All your heads look bloody 12 feet tall!" a whole new meaning

[@conducter6381]

3:41 Ah so thats why headshoting a pyro from behind is imposiable

[@aneasteregg8171]

Yeah nobody comments on it but the near impossibility of headshotting from behind is equally jank

[@patheticworm]

@aneasteregg8171 this is because you don't understand the issue. It will always headshot a pyro if you shoot him in the back of the head. It only fails to headshot if you hit somewhere else, or instead hit the upper bounding box which should never count as a head hit box anyway.

[@Cringineer]

That moment when the characters are so iconic all you have to do is look at their hitbox and you know what class it is

[@SnazBrigade]

what im getting from this is to aim to the left of every characters head

[@skipmanghondarg]

And a few pixels higher for Heavy

[@daddysempaichan]

Just use left handed view-models lamo. Let the game do that for you.

[@rossmallo]

This, explains so damn much. I had always felt that Scouts seemed to be PARTICULARLY vulnerable to HuntsJank, whereas I almost never dealt with it as a Heavy.

[@thedoctordallin]

So you're telling me that to be most effective with the Huntsman, I should tell the entire enemy team there are pennies on the floor?

[@Dat-Mudkip]

Ooo! A penny!

[@memelover6917]

​@@Dat-Mudkip*Critical Hit Sfx*

[@scaIawag]

"You got a forehead on ya like a coffee table."

[@pumpkeenhead]

huntsman is the best weapon in game confirmed: it melts robots and giants in mvm and always headshots in normal game

[@JohnRDVSMarston]

6:05 - In layman's terms, if you wanna outsnipe a sniper bot, you have an easier way using the bow

[@lygames_1027]

Thats why im "better" with the huntsman then any other rifles

[@lindholmaren]

Something I always felt was off with the Huntsman was how you could trade the air next to someone, see the tracer from the arrow, and still get a HS. I guess I know why now.

[@doga5899]

This makes so much sense, I've had so many times where a headshot should clearly hit, but registers and a bodyshot

[@DeletedTaters001]

Especially on heavy

[@sirfirewolfe5647]

2:00 so that's what sniper means when he says "all your heads look bloody 12 feet tall"

[@sydssolanumsamsys]

lucksman finally explained

[@sergioescobar1391]

We need to send this to every TF2 player that has ever uttered the term Lucksman.

[@draconocor]

Holy shit it was a meme but we knew it all along

[@WooHooLadttv]

Somebody is gonna bind this videos URL and spam it everytime they die to a huntsman to prove it "takes no skill".

[@PixelatedLeo]

Uh oh

[@abno3084]

That "somebody" will be me.

[@mono_si]

good

[@VeenThePanther]

and then theres gonna be the huntsman sniper that presses his bind whenever he gets a kill with the huntsman

[@TheSalemiLid]

So it's not luck, it's just source spaghetti? Spaghettiman time! Edit: It seems I caused a minor war in the comments. Pick up a rifle and prepare to fight down there.

[@skye6184]

at this point i'm starting to believe that valve is an italian company

[@nix3l_]

Basically every tf2 class is Spaghettiman

[@inedholp1565]

@dr_counelis that is true, but spheghetti also refers to the code being a mess, still working but it's not well made

[@hi-i-am-atan]

@@inedholp1565 it's actually pretty decently commented, laid out in a way that makes sense, and uses variable names that are, like, actual names in fact, these vids would probably be a lot more complicated to make if the code _was_ spaghetti, because ... y'know, shounic would have to untangle the code before reading it. kinda gets in the way of breaking down code and explaining it in layman's terms

[@randomcatdude]

@dr_counelis Yeah, it's not even spaghetti. It's doing exactly what it was meant to be doing. It would be spaghetti if it was poorly structured, messy, and hard to maintain. That could go for TF2's codebase as a whole, but the functionality of an arrow? hell no Gosh, the TF2 community pisses me off.

[@thatartistnox]

the spy at the start was definitely praying for his life while a sniper rifle was aimed 5 centimeters below his pelvis

[@CoolPlayersVic]

Oooh so that's how shooting into a corridor just works most of the time

[@fnln3011]

2:10 "you'll never hit me! you'll never hit my tiny head!"

[@tristancampbell4941]

Could you imagine if tf2 had Tekken style hitboxes? The bow and arrow probably wouldn't even be used.

[@PatrickHopkinsSaint]

_Laughs in Dorya_

[@buraunii]

Dunno. I'm a Hanzo main on overwatch and the hurtboxes are very accurate to the player models. Not to mention there is a lot more sporadic movement in OW. It's a lot harder to hit headshots in that game than in TF2, but not impossible enough to be unviable.

[@Supermonkey981]

This just explains the confusion of both the huntsman sniper and the invisible spy they accidently headshot

[@PoppySis]

Would've been interesting to see what it would look like with scout's melee animation, though, since he holds his hand so high up, it would likely blocknearly all headshots on his right-hand side, right?

[@FancyNoir]

this explains why i keep getting called a bot whenever i go crazy with the huntsman

[@maninham1]

Man, and here I was thinking I was a huntsman god. :(

[@cousinjohnny6584]

"You'll never hit me! You'll never hit my tiny head!" -The Scout- Heavy Weapons Guy - 2007

[@PolarShift]

So when retreating from a Huntsman sniper, on most classes it is advisable to turn to the right instead of to the left (thus exposing your left side while hiding your easily exploited right side).

[@oblivion_2852]

No. The rotation of the player doesn't matter. The rotation of the map does lmao

[@intensellylit4100]

@@oblivion_2852 the rotation of the player changes the nearest hitbox, which changes what will become.a headshot.

[@oblivion_2852]

@@intensellylit4100 nope the rotation of the player has no impact on the rotation of the hitbox. The hitbox is an axis aligned bounding box which means it has no rotation.

[@arabidllama]

Incredible work on the visualizations, you always make everything really clear!

[@Thornskade]

Yeah, I've never managed to headshot a Demo from behind on tr_walkway with the Huntsman and his effective hitbox demonstrates why. I would hope that Valve reconsiders this mechanic to only use the model hitboxes, or alternatively do a second trace for the arrow to check if it hit the head hitbox and otherwise deal bodyshot damage instead of whatever this abomination is. But given that we're in the biggest update drought ever there's a good chance this will never change and that makes me sad

[@daddysempaichan]

Game advanced forward one frame to see if the arrow hit's any of the hitboxes. If it did, that's where it hit. If it didn't, then it does the thing of moving forward 16 units and hitting the closes hitbox. At least, that's what someone else said in this comment section.

[@Thornskade]

@@daddysempaichan ??? Why are you repeating the video to me? I watched it. I promise you I watched the video.

[@eq2361]

this knowledge feels like some kind of forbidden text

[@joshuasmith6909]

This is going to completely change how I play with the Huntsman.

[@denzelwright8475]

Its so funny that I kept missing headshots on heavy. I'm thinking "He's so slow and his head is so prominent, why am I still just hitting body?" I eventually needed to teach myself to aim just above his head and now I guess I know why.

[@concommie4050]

Damn, good to know my huntsman strats were right, but I didn't know how. When I was in close quarters with an enemy I'd always aim like a head above their head, if that makes sense. If you try actually shooting at their head in close quarters, it ALWAYS registers as a bodyshot. Aim a little above, and it's perfect. On that note, revved up heavies are way easier to headshot, so I always wait.

[@damonminnix4660]

Welcome to another episode of “Source Spaghetti some of your favorite games are built on”

[@jokkepokke95]

Is this still relevant today or changed/outdated?

[@USSNewJerseyLover]

Still relevant in this day

[@futabasakurairl]

Blizzard watched this video and takes notes

[@doctormoney106]

As much as this grants many hilarious wierd free kills, i would 100% have the huntsman have a consistant and reliable hitreg model instead of this Every time I use this weapon I feel like a clown Ive always wanted to get good with it but this obviously gets in the way

[@overlord3481]

or better yet, remove the ability to headshot

[@derdoctor1895]

@@overlord3481 you know what? Fuck everything, remove TF2.

[@overlord3481]

​@@derdoctor1895 or even better yet, make the game 10x more fun than its present state by removing crits, nerfing headshot dmg on sniper, removing bullet spread, just to name a few.

[@derdoctor1895]

@@overlord3481 yeah just remove all classes and replace them with stock mercs so its balanced.

[@overlord3481]

@@derdoctor1895 yeah just continue to plead ignorance

[@EpikJamer]

after 9 years in development, i hope it was worth the wait! thanks and have fun.

[@MrDirt]

does that mean, you could for example aim with the Huntsman a Scout from behind 2:25 into his head and it won't count as a headshot? I'm not a Huntsman player and never heard anyone else complaining about headshots not registering from behind.

[@WastedMeerkat1]

I think it'd be fine if you hit their head hitbox, it seems like the bounding box thing only happens if you don't hit a player model hitbox, although I could be wrong

[@arvidbergman]

No, because that time it would actually be hitting the head hitbox. The bounding box correction is only for if the arrow misses the actual legitimate hitbox, so proper shots won't be cucked

[@Arslan35]

no, if you ACTUALLY hit the player hitbox it will count as a headshot, this only applies to the bounding box. shounic already said that in the video

[@MrDirt]

@@Arslan35 Thank you. And he indeed said it, a few seconds after my time stamp. X)

[@hi-i-am-atan]

yes and no. if an arrow directly collides with a hitbox on the same frame it collides with the collision hull, it'll just use that hitbox also i'm pretty sure that the red boxes are a pretty loose approximation, anyway. because video games work with discrete units of time, objects don't really _move_ so much as they _teleport._ collision therefore is realizing that two objects have either teleported into one another or are about to do so, and fixing their position, speed, etc. appropriately. so, minute differences in how far away the sniper is from his target means the actual position at which the arrow hits the target is changed, even if there's no difference in the actual time of collision ... which means the position the game uses to determine the target's closest hitbox is also changed, and thus so may the closest hitbox if you've ever seen a game where you can run at a wall at high speeds and get stopped just fine, only to try it again and hit the wall _just_ right to suddenly fly right through it? usually it's because of the same principle, where your max speed is _just_ enough for your collision box to pass the wall's collision box in a single frame, but _only_ if the frame before you do so has the two boxes _almost_ but not quite touching. the source engine uses a lot of linetracing to help mitigate issues like that, and in fact that's how the arrow determines if it's hit a hitbox after hitting the collision hull, but ... linetracing only traces a straight line, and if an arrow snags the corner of a collision hull and there's no hitboxes within the arrow's trajectory ... yeah, you're gonna need to figure out a different solution

[@iMicro]

Your video always look so clean and smooth in editing. What program do you use for this. Is there a website for it?

[@blukat9903]

much like real life being short in tf2 gives you a huge disadvantage against taller guys

[@kayj312]

I love videos like this, thanks shounic

[@Chichaetomate]

i wonder... does the spy disguises affect the hit boxes?

[@taxevasion6309]

I don't think so, the regular hitscan hitboxes stay the same regardless of your disguise and the bounding boxes for projectiles are already the same for every class. I doubt it changes anything.

[@mane8246]

nope it doesnt, and it can also be used to avoid getting headshots when you desguise as a spy. this is why you see engineers ignoring hs and other small classes

[@The_Novo]

Still better then Hanzo's arrows, from overwatch.

[@cipher6207]

Why is that ?

[@LoneHermit]

Shounic straight up shows us the red highlight for headshots on each class, now all we have to do is to memorize and abuse.

[@kouchka09]

The graphics keep getting better!

[@MooshBoosh]

Shounic, if you were like B4nny level of TF2, you'd essentially be the Mew2King of TF2. Which I guess makes B4nny the Mang0? Or Armada? Would have to think more about that. Also, nice vid as always. The work you do always enlightens something about TF2 that I had known intuitively for many years at a technical level.

[@GhostofFarta]

He was b4nny's editor

[@jveerf8573]

@@GhostofFarta yes

[@flucke1000]

I am in awe. This explains so much! Having the right angle on the head was so irregular that of course if felt like RNG

[@Riiludragon]

Close only counts in horsehoes, handgrenades, and huntsman

[@invalid_user_handle]

So there _is_ a reason why the Huntsman decides "Huh, I'm going to get a headshot today".

[@ysgramorssoupspoon2261]

so huntsman is just ranged backstab, you aim for the enemy's weapon and they get killed. Also it's an explosive because why not.

[@ysgramorssoupspoon2261]

Also speaking of backstabs is there a source code explanation for the weird forehead backstabs, I recently got one and I play with cl_interp 0

[@ysgramorssoupspoon2261]

Video where I first saw it (after 4 minute mark): kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6rPYaeqnMxohdU

[@BigLuke1324]

Now i know why my strategy of "Just shoot in the General direction of the enemy" worked so well lol

[@NekkiNosra07]

Good, more accuses for me to say to that one Huntsman

[@danmiller7649]

Your infographics and animations are honestly some of the best on KZbin. Love your stuff.

[@RedStinger_0]

TF2's code continues to befuddle me.

[@xx_insert_cool_username_he6876]

The arrow knows where it is at all times