TF2's New & Important 64 bit Beta: Explained & Benchmarked

[@shounic]

i ended up having to rewrite the whole video 3 times because so much changed so fast ;_; sorry if scripting is a mess, though i think it's mostly okay? also, there's probably more i could explain and go over, especially dx9 vs vulkan but this video already took soooo long to come out, so if they're topics people want covered i'll just make a second video. trying to explain vulkan for example would've required quite a bit of research and fact checking that'd just push back the video so it didn't seem worth it for this video. thanks :)

[@Terrythetortoise]

It's probably fine 🙂

[@teecat1231]

can i have a shoutout

[@xnerynmvry]

I personally didn't find anything that suggests the script was rewritten so I suppose it's more than just okay 👍

[@yy6u]

the video is good, through what you said assumes work from the developer to utilize the new environment in first place but it could be seen as magic of just compiling and it being instantly faster for some people especially non savvy ones if you have a lot of addons in garry's mod, the fps difference from the bitness work is more substancial

[@unspeakablerja8556]

Ok

[@Aelfraed26]

The executable for TF2 no longer being hl2.exe feels like the end of an era

[@THEVOIDZ]

Emojis in chat is the new era :(

[@chucklenut7974]

​@@THEVOIDZ LET'S GOOOO 🥳🎉🎉🎉

[@THEVOIDZ]

@@chucklenut7974 awful

[@chucklenut7974]

@@THEVOIDZ If you don't like emojis, you can just like... not use them? Unless you are actively against emojis or something, that'd be so dumb wth.

[@THEVOIDZ]

@@chucklenut7974 If you knew anything about TF2's community and how they like to spam and chatbind, you would not see emojis as good news

[@user-jj6rg7yt5f]

That Minecraft example is the highest level of genius I've seen when it comes to people demonstrating how something works

[@ThePringels09]

Imma hard steal it to explain computer science to kids

[@Pyrodiac]

Agreed, and I hate Minecraft!

[@matchanavi]

I don't know anything Minecraft so that part I did not understand at all

[@Trashboat4444]

​@@Pyrodiac why?

[@SlippiSRC]

I know right, it was perfect.

[@MaybeNotARobot]

MOM, DAD, HEAVY UPDATE!! That's right, heavy performance update!

[@TheRainWorldCreature]

YEAHHHH BABYYY THEY GOT THE LOCALIZATION (files) UPDATE

[@somedesertdude1308]

true

[@waitingfortheequinnox]

Heavy perform well!

[@ryanfriscia1132]

I'll be the one to acknowledge your Simpsons reference

[@J03_M4m4]

LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO

[@ungezoockt]

this isnt just a performance update but an update to the lifespan of tf2.

[@dustloaf]

WE'RE GOING TO LIVE FOREVER

[@scapegoat4]

@@dustloaf So long as Gabe is alive, the chances of this game "getting EA'd" is extremely low. Let alone "blizzarded" into a dogshit sequel lol. It's AFTER he's gone that we can start to worry about this game "dying", other than a mass exodus of the playerbase (which Valve would REALLY have to fuck something up to do, considering we've stayed through nearly half a decade of bots, a decade+ of GARBAGE autobalance, meat your match, the crate depression, in-game trading not working for the past ~4-6 months...)

[@soakedcookies]

@@scapegoat4 seriously though whatever happens, I have to applaud this community. We have one of the worst yet best reputations. Half the the community hates (furries, lgbtq, trans, etc.) yet half of the community IS those things, we’re some of the most annoying people on earth yet have memes that have withstood the test of time, and we’ve eaten up and spat out 6 years of neglect from valve, bots destroying causal servers, trading bugs, no 7th comic 😢 etc etc. and yet we’re still fucking here makin conga lines, creating videos and blowing people to pieces ingame. We’re honestly, gonna live forever.

[@Louis.7493]

fun fact it probably just shortened it for some unknown reason

[@watema3381]

@@soakedcookies The TF2 community is amazing yet dogshit terrible at the same time. It's this contrast and duality that makes us invincible

[@thepizzaman6310]

You cannot just leave us with "the medic scottish resistance bug" with such glorious footage and not explain it.

[@kingj6477]

Him leaving it unexplained is hilarious tbh

[@littledude52]

iim saying lmao i need to know how that happened

[@somerandomguyintheinternet]

Finally, Team Fortress 64

[@marioisawesome8218]

this 3D looks so real!

[@ArbitraryOutcome]

If Team, then only Fortress! 🔥

[@dingusdong]

wahooooooo!!

[@EngineerTeamFortress2]

I can’t wait for Team Fortress 128

[@fnln3011]

Cue _Meet the plumber_ title card.

[@dabiga2315]

THEY RENAMED THE EXE LETS GOOOOOOO

[@videoman362]

Finally, no more playing TF2 that's disguised as Half life 2.

[@kR-qj7rw]

Only took what twenty years ?

[@kritzmaker]

​@@kR-qj7rw almost, just 16 or so.

[@kR-qj7rw]

@@kritzmaker tf2 came out in 07 yes but it's been probably using the hl2 exe since that released in 2004 If not earlier hmm

[@oracidrep]

i can finally run tf2 and portal at the same time...

[@notloopers1110]

whoever is left at valve is doing god's work in setting it up for the community to keep this game alive longer then valve

[@mark-jf5ik]

i like to imagine theres a janitor that mops and brooms around the valve office until they stumble upon a computer with a sticky note saying “Please press this button occasionally” and that updates tf2

[@Teku69420]

Maybe it's the janitor at Valve working overtime 🤔

[@evdestroy5304]

Uh, what? Casual is still flooded with bots, and the intended way to play the game is unplayable in some regions.

[@mar2ck_]

Its Joshua Ashton, the same guy who made the DirectX 9 driver for Steam deck (D9VK). He's contracted by Valve for various Linux related development 🐸

[@leonardo9259]

Yeah, let's keep getting valve off the hook for letting the game be riddled with bots, no real content updates, terrible picking for crates and shutting down projects. GREAT JOB GUYS WOOHOOO ISNT TF2 TIMELESS MASTERPIECE ISNT TF2 THE BEST GAME EVER COME PLAY TF2

[@woodsie2985]

Btw, I'm the guy with the 1050 ti playing on the 100 player server. It's in an Asus gaming laptop I got back in August of 2017 at Microcenter

[@watema3381]

Digital footprint

[@appalacha7278]

​@@watema3381 confused

[@wezerd]

​@@appalacha7278Your digital footprint is information about yourself that you voluntarily give up to the internet. Such information can later be recovered on archives and the sort, so it stays. This is very mild information (but potentially valuable if you wanna identify someone), but it's good advice to not share personal details about yourself online. This applies more to social things, like saying things on social media that you wouldn't want other to know normally.

[@tyrantworks9604]

@@appalacha7278 if somebody had nothing better to do in their life, that amount of information is enough to lead back to woodsie's real life information.

[@igorka5exe]

i still rock NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 that i got 6 years ago

[@portalfreak7628]

5:46 >TF2 Update: "Team Fortress 2 actually got more bit." >Emesis Blue: "Team Fortress 2 actually got morbid."

[@Snooopy28]

bro i just made that same comment about it being morbid, and now i see it in yoursXD

[@YahiamiceLIVE]

Can you do a whole video explaining that medic scottish resistance thing

[@TJ-Henry-Yoshi]

I second this notion

[@unfunny4346]

Yes please

[@snp..]

i agree with yahiamoose

[@mr.teobruh977]

@TJ-Henry-Yoshi OMG it's the one and a half presses Yoshi

[@dzikidzikers4082]

I agree please

[@SonicMaster519]

I'm not sure if a lot of people realize how big this is. Imagine if Valve updated all their older games to be 64 bit as well: Modern PCs can finally gain that power they really deserve.

[@vilian9185]

why?, cs:go and dota already uses source 2, and it's not like you need more fps in portal

[@cocksneedfartin]

@@vilian9185all 10 of us fistful of frags players are gonna be happy

[@bumpersincapped]

​​@@vilian9185you have absolutely no idea what is going on dude, go home

[@monkeywithocd]

Modern PCs can already run most Source games at hundreds of FPS without problem. TF2 mainly benefits, I think, due to it being a multiplayer game that's been constantly updated for over a decade, and so it's undoubtedly more of a "tower of duct tape" than any other Valve title. That being said, I can imagine sourcemods could potentially benefit from a switch to 64-bit.

[@skipperg4436]

Well, TF2 is still for the most part single thread application...

[@MeesterTweester]

3:58 Finally, the Syringe Gun buff

[@GoofySlugpup]

Someone tell me how that happens. JUST, HOW!?!?!?!?!?

[@MeesterTweester]

@@GoofySlugpup shounic plz

[@KptKosmit91]

​@@GoofySlugpupsource spaghet

[@foodaah]

​​@@GoofySlugpupits the source spaghetti wonders. somehow the syringe projectile got messed up when some values changed,like it used to read something on the memory(and that something was a syringe),now that the size of it changed,it tries to read it on the same place on the memory,but now its overriden with something else,but now in this case its a demo secondary edit: this is a rough guess,but its probably something of the sort,anyways,source spaghetti

[@lev7509]

@@foodaah yeah, probably to do with widths of structure fields changing and therefore incorrect reads... however, i guess that'd only happen if the sources were only partially recompiled, leading to mixed code. Or, if there was duplicated code and they only changed things in one place and not another.

[@pickly4747]

This is a massive update in all the subtle ways, while new content or weapon balance would be cool, ensuring TF2's future proofing is extremely important to its continued existence

[@KingKrouch]

It's worth noting that the Vulkan "implementation" is just DXVK wrapped on top of DirectX 9. The gains from that aren't going to be substantial like an actual Vulkan renderer (With full multithreading and such), but it's definitely going to have an improvement from the DirectX 9 support on NVIDIA and AMD's graphics card drivers, which are effectively in maintenance mode. I've been using DXVK installed in my TF2 directory for a while already.

[@yalldrinktea]

I think that's also the solution valve used for vulkan in all the other source games.

[@KingKrouch]

@@yalldrinktea correct

[@kreuner11]

SSE2 is not a compiler, but rather an instruction set extension the same compiler can now target along with x86_64

[@Lax_Oficial]

Yeah, they might be using a better version of Microsoft Visual C++ compiler (MSVC) or maybe another one

[@mar2ck_]

I wonder what the fps increase would've been with AVX2. But they probably went with SSE2 so people with really old CPU can still play.

[@PeakKissShot]

@@mar2ck_yeah avx2 was not mandated until x86_64-v3 in 2013

[@albertovelasquez9027]

Also I wonder if they somehow changed the C++ standard they're using

[@dhkatz_]

​@@albertovelasquez9027 That isn't that difficult. C++ is literally designed to be backwards compatible (which is also a reason why it sucks to work with)

[@girres43]

The minecraft bit is a very good analogy. Good video, I wouldn't have known about this if you didn't upload it.

[@LuisEdGm]

One UI element the 100 player mode needs: the top bar that shows which teammates are alive is unreadable, it needs to be remade showing the 9 classes and a number of living players of each class

[@keltonschleyer6367]

GREAT solution 🎉

[@CoolyCools]

im pretty sure 100 players itself is a experimental feature, so dont blame the devs

[@Zeraph-Zen]

>Uses unsupported feature >Demands a relatively major change for sole sake of the unsupported feature

[@walkingonneedles]

​@@Zeraph-Zen yes that IS what experimental features are put out for!

[@Zeraph-Zen]

@@walkingonneedles >32 players is NOT experimental. >32 players is an OFFICIALY UNSUPPORTED feature which they simply let us play with.

[@Fatmagic]

Good to see some work getting done on the game. Very happy to see that FPS increase

[@GrubbyWubby]

get back to work porting cheats to 64 bit

[@kochamalternatywke]

big win for potato pc's

[@limbus66]

he's so large

[@JohnDoe76791]

Large man

[@creaturedanaaaaa]

At 2:31 the most impressive gain HAS to be the A10 5750M, that is a bulldozer era laptop chip.

[@profilepicturer]

you made me feel old dude

[@ultra0000_]

my main pc has an A8 7600. god help me (ok it's not that bad but i wish i had something better)

[@foodaah]

​@@ultra0000_how about an ryzen 4600g ?,im brazillian an built my pc with it relatively cheap on a sale,its runs plenty of games decently for me

[@laceflower_]

​@@ultra0000_ I collect those old chips now, don't even use them in builds. I've got an athlon x4 940 and A10-9700E.

[@piotrmazek540]

@@foodaah We're talking about the A series processors which were slow even when they were new. Ryzens are pretty good.

[@magicUFO]

Sheesh, Valve released an update in Dota2, CS2, and now a beta in TF2? Gabe is cooking something

[@augustday9483]

Valve 2

[@Touhou2006]

I wish, they mostly only care about CS2

[@appalacha7278]

tf3 confirmed

[@BonfireFPS]

not about the parts that matter. anticheat is still a mess and it doesnt matter how good the game is with how bad the cheating situation is. they mostly only care about dota2 @@Touhou2006

[@MetaBloxer]

@@Touhou2006 "Dota, Dota, Counter Strike"

[@shinydewott]

Honestly the hl2.exe change is the most hype thing in the update

[@wr3nche5]

WE'RE FINALLY BREAKING FREE FROM HALF LIFE 2 BOYS

[@xxsegaxx]

​@gu3282 I guess they should match the Advanced Options style with the regular Options style to achieve that

[@JuneNafziger]

@@xxsegaxxI think that might be hell due to how UI programming works for source? It’s a lot easier to use the thing they built for the purpose and made deliberately simple to modify. Like the keybind menu is configured with just a list of convars and readable names.

[@dihydrogenmonoxid1337]

We are not longer a Half Life 2 Mod bois

[@mar2ck_]

Another change is the Valve startup video is in 1080p now (and is encoded as a webm instead of bik)

[@shallex5744]

man, game developers really love obscure bespoke fucked up proprietary formats for the most basic of things

[@NimbleSnek]

@@shallex5744 If I understand correctly, it mostly has to do with licensing and difficulties imbedding certain types of video decoding in the game renderer

[@ougonce]

@@shallex5744 Huh? Webm is literally the exact opposite of what you described. It's an open source, royalty-free and widely used codec.

[@shallex5744]

@@NimbleSnek i'm talking about bink video

[@Sammysapphira]

Jesus christ, why webm? Webm is such an out dated format already. Mkv has existed for ages now and has better encoding in both quality and size not to mention AVIF which directly replaces webm.

[@thedivide9559]

One thing you need to keep in mind is the 64 bit version on Gmod improves 1% and .1% lows by a lot.

[@richardmillhousenixon]

Especially on servers with more addons. There was a massive RP server I played on that had something like 50gb of addons, and the difference between playing on the 32 bit main release and the 64 bit beta was insane. My system wasn't even that top of the line at that point (Ryzen 2700X, 64gb of RAM and a GTX 1660Ti) I've since upgraded, and the difference is even more insane

[@thedivide9559]

Your Cpu and a bit extra of gpu power to utilize the assests and effects happening all at once helps a lot after upgrading. The system requirements for Gmod is really outdated imo.@@richardmillhousenixon

[@aknife8336]

this is quite a heavy update

[@davisdf3064]

You could say they really set the Buffalo Steaks high with this one

[@unflexian]

​@@davisdf3064what a brass beast of an update this is

[@jamcal8086]

⁠@@unflexianValve has quite the warrior’s spirit overhauling a game this old

[@MrDraco981]

sandvich

[@WickedLizardWizard]

The Minecraft demonstration was a great visual analogy.

[@werterios1531]

3:06 that is because he is the primarch vulkan Itself, he came back to guide us un this hard times

[@AbadabaForever]

VULKAN LIVES!!!

[@suqicheng8196]

Stomp stomp

[@wesleyjones4036]

Hes here to hug us all

[@JagiUGG]

huh? :D@@suqicheng8196

[@SIRUNOWN]

Hohohoho he's here to give us all a biiiiiig hug my friends!

[@uppedtrout]

Holy shit I'm actually super excited for this, like way more than a gameplay update

[@TheRyuSword]

I’d say this is a pretty Major Update guys.

[@Snickerway]

TF2 is now playable on Mac again, let’s goooo Edit: Installed it and it doesn’t actually seem to work rn, but it presumably will with the non-test release of x64 since the only thing keeping it from running on Mac was being 32-bit

[@vilian9185]

until them stop the x86 support lmao

[@wile123456]

They added a metal renderer?

[@nanopone]

nope

[@netbat]

@@nanopone what the fuck is that nano from fedi holy shit

[@BananaPhoPilly]

"Chippi chippi chappa chappa"

[@hanssturemberg3855]

The localisation files paid off guys‼️‼️

[@kingacrisius]

The minecraft example of registers and ram was great! I was concerned that you either wouldn't explain it, or explain it in a way that was hard to understand, but the minecraft analogy perfectly encapsulates the important parts for easy understanding without needing to cover the difficult technical details.

[@asj3419]

The classic analogy I was taught is a library. A person reading books in a library has the shelves (RAM) and their desk (the cache) to pick their books from.

[@kingacrisius]

@@asj3419 That doesn't really make a lot of sense as an analogy for the cache but it does make sense for registers.

[@asj3419]

@@kingacrisius Honestly, I'm not sure I agree. Both analogies can be used to explain how a cacheless machine could be sped up by adding more registers. The difference (when you simplify this much) between registers and cache is that in one you explicitly move things, while the other does that implicitly and analogies can't really capture that. The Minecraft one is definitely simpler, given that everyone already knows how that game works. It's pretty neat.

[@kingacrisius]

@@asj3419 Yeah the part about the cache analogy that doesn't really work for me is that write-through/write-back are large components of caching. I feel like a better analogy would be cloud backups or smth

[@rensomeoneelse1241]

Your videos are honestly so amazing, i love the direction this channel has gone. Lazer focused on the topic but taking just enough time with very neat explinations of larger concepts in a way that its watchable for everyone. Avaa

[@identity__thief]

Your explanation of register sizes was so smart omg, I might mail it to my OSNI lecturer

[@BouncyBear]

Damn the Janitor and potted plant are popping off huh?

[@shallex5744]

no, this was a somebody they contracted

[@BouncyBear]

@@shallex5744 Yes, the janitor and potted plant

[@shallex5744]

@@BouncyBear they actually don't work at valve

[@ChoomGuy]

​I can't believe they fired the janitor and potted plant

[@shallex5744]

@@ChoomGuy they didn't actually

[@org.name_here]

"more bit? in my source?"

[@PD_CĪPHĒR]

more likely than you think

[@ChunkyIsDead]

I'm always amazed by how well your analogies/visualizations work. It takes some real skill to summarize a topic like memory alignment so well

[@ColePhelpsLAPD]

And then there's Chunky.

[@EX0-kriller]

​@@ColePhelpsLAPDHe's dead...

[@ColePhelpsLAPD]

@@EX0-kriller Huh! DK! Chunkys dead!

[@FancyNight3D]

3 months late, but I wanna mention since the full release of 64 bit, I have an RTX 4080, my average fps in TF2 was around 110 - 160, since this 64 bit update, the lowest I've been is 320, the performance update was actually massive for me personally, my fps tripled, it's crazy

[@m4rt_]

btw, SSE2 (Streaming SIMD Extensions 2) is an instruction set and not the compiler. It's a feature that the compiler can use to optimize how it will run.

[@potato5119]

1:33 That's such a great example to show how ram works!

[@atiedebee1020]

Funny, because it doesn't show how ram works

[@bowser3017]

​@@atiedebee1020explain

[@HumbleBeeUK]

@@atiedebee1020 booooo! get off the stage!

[@shinoku250_gaming]

​@@atiedebee1020it's an analogy for the not so tech savvy people, and it does work : p

[@eternalunion7025]

@@shinoku250_gaming The example is perfect I love it, it is just that it does not show how ram works, registers are located in the CPU not the ram. (example is correct btw, I mean that the comment is wrong)

[@dreamwalking]

5:33 *_WHAT!?_* That actually blows my mind.

[@basilblack9928]

Can I ask why that's a big deal?

[@BeeCaver]

@@basilblack9928 It was like tf2 disguised as hl2

[@dreamwalking]

@@basilblack9928 This game is over 15 years old, it's like a sibling suddenly changing their name.

[@SgtZook]

hl2.exe is no more, gamers. we are free

[@xxsegaxx]

​@@dreamwalking It's like a twin renaming his name which belonged to his other twin but remembered how different he was from his twin so he decided to change his name to something that represents him more accurately

[@goji3908]

Literally the the best improvement of the year

[@realsoldier8595]

Not year, decade

[@Redsword603]

I consider this actually the biggest update the game had in years. The things that players will be able to make with the help of 64bit is what really got me excited. Alongside making the game a lot more optimized that now even modern PCs will run the game better.

[@Helloamjp]

Right.... :'(​@@realsoldier8595

[@rake483]

It is still a useless improvement when the game is unplayable because every server is full of bots ...

[@sesad5035]

​​@@Redsword603"will make the game run better" Bro hardware from 16 years ago can run this game at 60 fps. This update is useless.

[@ChromeDesigned]

The minecraft analogy was so perfect, going to have to borrow this for future intro computer systems lectures

[@theshyestguy4221]

I actually really like the Minecraft inventory slots comparison you did there. It’s cute

[@waamintion5653]

I'm also curious if 1% and 0.1% low frames were improved with the engine update. Frame dips being less severe is also a significant factor in how smooth the performance feels.

[@trozeran]

just from personal experience from 30 mins of playing id say yeah for sure better on those 99% lows

[@Not_interestEd-]

I can only imagine... going from like 4 gigs of RAM at most to.... God knows how much, more than a few thousand terrabytes. Also multicore processing waow!

[@bluerie._.3021]

Probably so, with improved ram access.

[@lychy645]

Source has had multicore since 2007@@Not_interestEd-

[@Not_interestEd-]

@@lychy645.... Kind of. On a 100 player server, someone noted that only one CPU core was being utilised, but there is a way to force games to run multicore. I'm not sure if TF2 is under that banner...

[@Optive]

everyone said there was going to be no fps improvement and now it's 30% what a nice surprise

[@Sammysapphira]

Typically 64bit updates never really provide much performance but due to tf2 being extremely CPU bound it's a big deal.

[@reD_Bo0n]

SSE2 is not a compiler, it is an instruciton set. Instruction sets like a list of words a CPU can understand. If you use more instruction sets you can compile a more efficient program with the cost that older CPUs without support of these sets can't run the program anymore.

[@kataja34]

Thank you clearing this out. But what is the compiler then? Did it change?

[@reD_Bo0n]

@@kataja34The compiler used by Valve for the Linux version is gcc, for Windows it's MSVC. For Linux specifically the GCC version got updated from 4.8.1 to 13.2.1.

[@jumpingjoy7689]

Small correction at 0:45. the limit for ram on 64bit is 256 terabytes, because even though the processor is 64bits, the physical address bus is only 48.

[@oplik0]

In newer server CPUs (and the newest Threadrippers apparently) there is actually a 56 bit bus and you can use it for addressing if you enable 5-level paging, for a total of 128PiB of addressable memory.

[@jumpingjoy7689]

@@oplik0 absolutely, and it's nuts that this is even a thing (thinking back to when 4gb was seen as overkill). pml5 allows this, but not quite 128PiB of physical ram yet (not as if servers even use even close to this yet).the processor supports 57 virtual bits which is 128PiB, but it only has a 52bit physical bus. So with page files the processor can access 128PiB, but only 4PiB can be physical ram.

[@Hexagonaldonut]

​@@jumpingjoy7689These numbers are absolutely insane to me. That is a comically ridiculous number of RAM chips, right there! Even a couple TiB of memory involves dozens, at least going off of modern RAM sticke, and that's several orders of magnitude higher!

[@jumpingjoy7689]

@@Hexagonaldonut `introducing our newest triple a game "sodifjojpowsef", requires 426TiB of ram to play`

[@potatoes-gud]

Honestly I feel like only massive server buildings would use that amount of ram because honestly, software hasn't reached that level of insanity yet (thankfully)

[@justinlua4848]

The crafting a Lectern clip was such a good visual metaphor for CPU register limitations, very well done.

[@catbugtf]

another interesting, lesser known benefit is that the 64bit upgrade fixes an outdated library dependency that breaks the game completely on arch linux and any arch based linux distro (manjaro, endeavouros, steamos[!!], etc) the workaround is/was: - delete the outdated library from the game files - install a package from the arch user repository (a user-driven library of package installation scripts) containing a more up to date version of that library - add a launch option telling steam to preload the library you installed when starting the game - realise that doing this also breaks steam overlay so you cant screenshot anything anymore or check the profile of that guy who may or may not be using silent aim

[@Thornskade]

What? I never had to do anything to play on Steam Deck, it just worked

[@barry5]

Weird, i use Manjaro and the games always worked fine

[@khhs]

Oh thank god. Was a pain to get it to boot + a working steam overlay is always a massive bonus

[@gordonf5553]

I use arch btw

[@LazarNaskov]

It's a miracle! (I use arch btw)

[@AnthonyCabezon]

Shounic, you deliver the communication we wish we got from Valve

[@TheTedder]

SSE2 is an enhanced instruction set, not a compiler.

[@ethandavis7310]

I guess maybe upgrading the compiler allows the devs to make better use of the instructions?

[@nobleradical2158]

I was wondering about that part…

[@Minty_Meeo]

Newer compiler better, but what probably really happened was cutting off 32-bit meant TF2 could finally compile with an instruction set extension from over 20 years ago.

[@nobleradical2158]

@@ethandavis7310no, but upgrading to 64-bit lets them use those instructions.

[@b4ttlemast0r]

Yeah, ig he was tryna simplify it

[@MightyElemental]

5:09 Going from 32 bit to 64 bit in itself with no other changes shouldn't be expected to change performance much, other than memory usage issues. However, it's the compiler options that would make the difference. As mentioned earlier, the SSE and maybe even AVX instructions sets should greatly help performance by parallelizing computation. Plus general other modern compiler optimizations could improve performance.

[@reddraddev]

another thing: since this is now 64-bit, a build for mac is now possible (NOT CONFIRMED, JUST POSSIBLE) since mac discontinued 32-bit programs a while back. if this is the case, that's hype

[@stevethepocket]

All it would do is buy them time. Once Apple drops x64 support in another year or two, every single game on Steam will become unplayable. Valve already dropped Mac support for CSGO when they replaced it with CS2; they're definitely planning to shut down Steam for MacOS as soon as they can figure out how to legally defer the blame to Apple.

[@kvdrr]

​@@stevethepocketyou can emulate x86 on arm so no, not really

[@dr_sax1479]

They would have to bundle MoltenVK for a mac build to be possible as the Vulkan implementation in TF2 is simply DXVK. I'm also not sure if DXVK 2.3 supports MoltenVK at all

[@kvdrr]

@@dr_sax1479 They are incorrect about *all* Steam being unplayable because of arm, but I do agree that Valve might decide to just not do business with Apple in the future

[@shallex5744]

@@stevethepocket well then amen. hopefully it serves to make more people move away from apple

[@Poronnahka]

We’re so back

[@whitepolpot]

were so fugink back tfbros

[@dustinnabil798]

It's not Joever yet

[@Neoniq41]

Tell that to the bots and cheaters still plaguing the game lol

[@Helperbot-2000]

@@Neoniq41 thats only on the beta male american servers, on the gigachad european servers you have to go out of your way to find them

[@QuarkGamingLLC]

I wouldn’t go that far but this is still a welcomed spoonful of hopium

[@b4ttlemast0r]

Wow that's crazy, I did not expect them to make changes to the fundamental architecture of an almost 20 year old game. Are they also multithreading it? That's gonna majorly increase the framerate on modern PCs.

[@GeneralZimmer]

It's already multithreaded but I doubt they've touched it for a long time.

[@vaelophisnyx9873]

multithreading is not a magic bullet and in fact can make things slower. Stop demanding everything multithread

[@rikuleinonen]

​​@@vaelophisnyx9873in the case of valve doing multithreading, it's a magic bullet. They won't just make the game stall waiting for threads, after all they probably aren't dumb. This complaint is only really valid if there's nothing productive to slap on another thread, the engine can't handle it properly or if the devs are inexperienced with multithreading.

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

​@rikuleinonen the point is that better cpu and memory utilization will not solve TF2 abusing the CPU when it could be using the GPU more. The root cause of poor performance in TF2 is Valve initially believing cpu clock speeds would blast off after release. They didn't, but GPUs did

[@rikuleinonen]

@@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish GPUs aren't a magic bullet, even in the hands of valve. GPUs only become relevant when extreme parallelization can be done, which isn't the case for most things. GPU physics is in early development (say, PhysX) and the only other suitable thing is rendering which TF2 already uses the GPU for. The GPU is worse than the CPU for general tasks.

[@Jmcgee1125]

0:58 "uhm actually it's a compiler toolchain which includes the assembler that--" Anyway this is huge. 64-bit TF2 is probably a stepping stone for something much bigger. This might be why they've been "inactive" for so long - this is a big change with nothing to show for it until it's done.

[@seronymus]

We can pray 🙏

[@unfunniestman]

Watch Valve add another seal and then go silent another 6 months

[@Sauce787]

Valve employees aren't even responsible for the 64 bit update, it was done by the 3rd party contractor hired to work on TF2. and the 64 bit update was not being worked on for the last 8 years. Valve doesn't put time into TF2 because its hard, and not at all rewarding. The tf2 community punishes Valve for working on the game, the last time they changed the meta in 2017 they got chewed out by the community for their hard work.

[@mar2ck_]

@@Sauce787 He wasn't hired to work on TF2, he was hired to work on Steam deck related software like D9VK. This TF2 thing is a side-project.

[@seronymus]

@@Sauce787 meet your Match was disgustingly corrupt for listening to out of touch tourneyfags

[@Thee_Saturn]

Let's acknowledge that this IS showing us that a major update is around the corner (hopefully)

[@Sammysapphira]

No it doesn't.

[@PlarthOS]

I'm happy with this update but it does not mean in any way shape or form that a major one is coming soon

[@TheMuffinman191]

This IS a major update. We haven’t seen optimization like this in a literal decade.

[@Thee_Saturn]

People who disagree are just deniers. Valve took years to make a new Half-Life game, and it's amazing. So, with TF2, it's not too long until something comes along. (like Vs Saxton)

[@PlarthOS]

@@Thee_SaturnValve had no involvement in the creation of Versus Saxton Hale at all. It was entirely created and submitted to the workshop by some community mapmakers, and all Valve did was add it to casual rotation. It'a been confirmed that there are only 2 devs working on TF2 at the moment (cause everyone else is working on Neon Prime and CS2), one being Eric Smith and the other a contractor Valve hired (who's behind the 64-bit update). You can't make major updates with only 2 devs, so one isn't coming any time soon like you're claiming. I'm all for having hope, but not when it's just blatant misinformation.

[@gunnercat8045]

after 17 years, we got our own exe name

[@enigmaticphantom8389]

Hopefully it will have been worth the wait.

[@spacesheep6547]

1:33 bro explained in minecraft terms

[@iambumbo7534]

And he nailed it

[@hunlepto2239]

This is actually epic to hear that they actually started doing such project, a 64-bit upgrade for Source games is not amazing, because of performance increase, but because the games actually become much more stable, especially if one mods the game. As someone who back then tried to mod L4D2 with alot of vanilla high quality mods, I got crashes too often due to the game not being able to handle it all (I was also frequently playing on a great 25 players coop server), which is why I had to ditch them.

[@SapphireThunder]

Holy dang, this is absolutely huge change.

[@crayfray]

Real quick but that RAM with Minecraft crafting analogy was brilliant! Very good visualisation!

[@mancavestudios8955]

"And if that don't work, use more bit"

[@ipaqmaster]

This is a great step forward. I'm glad this fixes so many growing pains of the game especially on modded servers that push engine limitations.

[@wile123456]

The performance jump don't matter much if they still haven't fixed the bug that means multi core rendering is never enabled. It's why the Linux build runs so much faster because it doesn't have that bug

[@Moonistic]

wait, there is a bug with multi core rendering??

[@Straw_Breaker]

@@MoonisticI believe shounic mentioned it in a previous video but yes, enabling it literally does nothing iirc

[@seronymus]

I don't believe your words because you have a hateful avatar

[@RandomGreenKirb]

Wdym hateful ​@@seronymus

[@vyor8837]

It should matter *more* because of that bug though?

[@demolisherman1763]

I’m just happy for the sign that tf2 isn’t completely abandoned

[@Griffith74]

ITS LIVE

[@transientwaveform1475]

Also, SSE2 is not a compiler. SSE2 is an instruction set extension for IA-32 which was made baseline in AMD's 64-bit extension and so is available by default when compiling for 64-bit.

[@master74200]

It is also available on 32bit x86 though. And this update VERY likely makes use of SSE3 as well, which is now as old as Half-Life 2.

[@ascertonthethird]

1:06 🤓☝ akchtually, SSE2 is the instruction set extension, not the compiler - the compiler makes use of SSE2 instructions 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓

[@lemonposting]

a good um akchtually

[@sulphurous2656]

Jfc, it's not even a nerdy fact. This is literally the main description of what SSE2 is.

[@ascertonthethird]

@@sulphurous2656im sorry i forgot this channel is about the inner-workings of tf2, that's like. exclusively nerds. like me. :)

[@foodaah]

Achtually, SSE2 means Skyrim Special Edition 2

[@MisterCake]

TF2 BETA? .. *_long puff on cigarette_* .. now that's a name i haven't heard in years

[@MEWOVER9000]

The lectern example is excellent, terrific explanation for your target demographic

[@CPSPD]

furries?

[@Whomobile]

RIP Medic Scottish Resist bug, the buff he needed

[@charlotte_0_0_0]

Something that wasn’t mentioned in this video is that currently TF2 doesn’t run on Mac due to its restriction to only run 64-bit applications. If they introduce this to Mac too, which I assume they will, they’ll be able to play.

[@realdragon]

UPDATE: Compiled game again -Localization files- Increased memory for modern (2014) computers

[@fiddleriddlediddlediddle]

So this is what the Janitor has been up to.

[@nathaniel1207]

WOOO YEAH BABY ITS OFFICAL NOW TOO!

[@youtubeisawebsite7484]

thank you so much for shedding light on these changes. they're not as sexy as new guns or competitive-friendly maps but they're really important and the energy spent on them needs to be rewarded

[@geestwagen4614]

0:43 The memory limit is smaller than that. A physical memory address is 52 bits long and a virtual adress is 48 bits long. Which means the total limit on the system is 4096 TiB. And the memory limit per process is 256 TiB.

[@felixdavinci2850]

what do you mean the medic scotish resistance bug

[@jamiehughes5573]

There was a bug in the beta that replaced the needle gun projectile with the model for the Scottish resistance. So you were shooting them

[@felixdavinci2850]

@@jamiehughes5573 thank you great sir for that important piece of information. now my curiosity is satisfied

[@shallex5744]

he showed it in the video

[@felixdavinci2850]

@@shallex5744 i didn't knew that it was the syringe by default, i taught it was a bug that would turn your needle into the scotish resistance

[@toadboydude5015]

Thank you Shounic for covering this man

[@WooHooLadttv]

Im honestly gonna miss the misnamed exe

[@adul00]

Minecraft crafting example is not only a great visual analogy of register pressure, it's surprisingly accurate as well.

[@SeyredemeseM]

İ feel like this update happened because of your 100 player content, i knew the only two or three devs of tf2 were watching your content!

[@AvastAntiPony9445]

The SSE2 part is really confusing because it sounds like it's being refered as a compiler, which it is not. It's an instruction set. Also it's available on 32 bit builds. However, a lot of compilers by default does not enable SSE2 on x86-32 due to legacy stuff. The GCC compiler is a great example on that. You can also find old threads where it's brought up that Valve _supposedly_ compiled HL2 with SSE2 intrinsics later breaking support for some some (now ancient) CPUs. How many binaries were compiled with SSE2 support i don't know.

[@lollermann]

tf2 full link-time optimization compiled with LLVM for linux when

[@Kalmaro4152]

When the game gets native vulkan support on Linux, like that'll ever happen

[@tux_the_astronaut]

@@Kalmaro4152ehh DXVK works good enough even runs better than some games with native vulkan

[@_dh0ull_]

RIP hl2.exe

[@KurtWilsonProgramming]

I _love_ the minecraft inventory analogy - definitely using this in the future

[@JonathanThe501st]

Whether we get a new content update or not, this could lau the groundwork for one in the future and, more importantly, help elongate TF2's lifespan

[@jacobwhitecotton]

"tf2 actually got more bit" so true gaben

[@Iteration456-8_codename_goblin]

Time to speedrun lecterns with only 2 inventory slots

[@xDahl]

Pardon me, I might be mistaken here, but when you say 64 bits has a hard limit of 16 exabytes, and we now have access to 4 billion times more memory, while that's technically true, we're still limited by virtual memory, which limits us to 48bits. In practice, this doesn't matter, TF2 isn't going to use that much memory, and your main point still stands. Also, your minecraft lectern analogy is great, well done.

[@whoamI-tk3qz]

Well ye its 256 terabytes which is still a lot better

[@LG-ii7gl]

i want this man to tuck me in and explain code to me like its a bedtime story

[@itswompie]

Gives a whole new meaning to a "Heavy" update!

[@BoyOHBoy123]

its here now

[@bigbobby8244]

honestly that analogy is insane, i couldn't think of a better way to explain it

[@thegamingnugget3520]

Its finally out today!

[@touhouspam]

i'm super excited for this 'cause it means that i won't have to manually replace the broken 32 bit malloc library they ship with tf2 on linux.

[@MCSteve_]

you've always been so good at explaining more complex subjects for the layperson. amazing communication and presentation as usual