The Untold Story Of TF2's Payload

[@LucidMakesVideos]

What did you think about the video? Is Payload TF2's best gamemode? Join My Discord: discord.gg/KZ7RPShsuY Follow My Twitter: twitter.com/letters_lucid NOTE: For the record, Splatoon is one of my all time favorite game series, possibly being my all time favorite. I'm aware of the story and lore behind things. I'm saying that none of that is really present within a match of Tower Control itself. Not a bad thing, the mode is probably my favorite version of payload from a gameplay perspective.

[@nobloreal]

uh

[@Bad_Player_of_games]

You probably don't remember me, but I was that Levi who also had the favorite color of lime green

[@thatdaveguy8895]

It's crazy how we are still getting this type of videos despite literally no real content updates for years.

[@spongygames]

@damsen978 no u

[@Fish-2763]

@damsen978it ain’t that serious buddy :/

[@smolcate]

Tf2 struggle media

[@xman9354]

​@@Fish-2763you could say the same about this video, but go off

[@Sir_Squid]

​@@spongygameshe does have a fair point

[@grfrjiglstan]

If Payload is a traditional three-act drama, ctf is a soap opera. Lasts way longer than anyone involved signed up for, a lot of the same repetitive plot beats happen again and again, and if anybody tries to shake up the status quo, they’ll be written out before long.

[@LucidMakesVideos]

This guy gets it, MVP comment :)

[@Wzeyisbacklmao]

Then what is cp

[@Imperials3nate]

​@@Wzeyisbacklmao Dude, consider the acronym

[@Wzeyisbacklmao]

@@Imperials3nate control point Not the control pointbof kids

[@gameworkerty]

Sure, Payload feels like Mount Doom for the blue team, but its equally fun that it feels like Helm's Deep for the red team.

[@HunterStiles651]

Yeah. I never got the feeling that Red Team was the "bad guy", and stopping Blu Team from capping last is just as rewarding as capping last yourself. There is no set "bad guy" in Payload. It's just whichever team you're not on.

[@nseven1117]

it makes me feel like me and the team are making our last stand against a seemingly unstoppable force whenever the bomb is almost at the last terminus. it makes being able to successfully defend all the more satisfying

[@fumothfan9]

Both are bad and good Theyre mercenaries. Clones lol. The real bad guys are literally everyone else ESPECIALLY TOM JONES!!!

[@salsamancer]

Depends on how you like to play i guess. Personally i hate playing defense in TF2. The game is subtly biased against the defending team by design and most of the time you either get rolled or slowly lose ground on choke points.

[@serioussponge6416]

In juxtaposition to Blue team's relaxation/planning during setup time, Red team is on the clock the second the game starts. It's not just a defense, it's a last second defense, as if Red team has been caught by surprise. Every second ticking down feels like a matters as the defenders rush out to prepare for the attack. One little mishap in the process can ruin the confidence of a player or even an entire team that they will be successful.

[@EmperorofMankindStuckOnAThrone]

Though defense maybe less fun, it’s still really engaging as in a good match it really feels like this is your heroic final stand against BLU

[@coygus4422]

I prefer defense, but I'm an engineer main. I feel like I have more impact on the game (unless I'm attacking last as engi, it can be very satisfying to know you're keeping the team supplied and keeping the enemy under pressure with your teleporter

[@gelozyg1732]

Especially in the last checkpoint which is so stressful when you can tell everyone is actually trying to win in the last few minutes😂

[@fumothfan9]

Main payload blu is always invading as it goes from blu to red on mine or rail tracks. Its funny. Like they connect 2 enemy force bases via a single straight line cart track; so either: 1 red invaded first blue counter attacks 2 blu invaded first red is counter defending.

[@oliverpyide7748]

​@coygus4422 as a spy main, those payload chainstabs are heavenly 😩

[@BerserkBeakie]

The Horus heresy was just a very big payload match

[@tajaribeckles4339]

Maybe the payload is the friends we made along the way

[@esthernaing5166]

Yes

[@ThePopTrain]

Or...maybe the friends we made along the way are the payload...

[@derpysquid6595]

I start work in ten mins, this better be short

[@SDT493]

im watching this while at work rn

[@alex.g7317]

Did you even look at the time bar?

[@TuxxyScout]

Bro's Boss: MICHAEL! WORK HAS STARTED 5 MINUTES AGO WHY ARE YOU STILL ON THAT PHONE OF YOURS!

[@Helpertf2]

Well, good luck

[@quintencornelissen2274]

I sure hope you set it to 1.5 times speed

[@Kirbro64]

As a writer, the little bits of story you tell from what's shown in Payload gives me so many ideas on writing a story and I love it so much.

[@d00gz_]

Honestly if you tried you could probably write a whole short novel about a payload match. It’s such a large scale battle with so many moving parts.

[@thewarlordhimself]

PAYLOAD: STORY-MODE

[@elkssr]

2:43 How dare you show us the picture of TERRITORIAL CONTROL (tc for short) map Hydro and call it CONTROL POINTS? This unimaginable insult to the Hydro fans community shall not be forgotten, Lucid, we will have our revenge.

[@hxyri]

so true, i unsubbed after this ROOKIE MISTAKE. i hope lucid learns his lesson after he loses his MOST VALUABLE viewer

[@LucidMakesVideos]

I'm sorry for committing sacrilege, i'll repent and do better next time :pensive:

[@Vivian-Butterscotch]

​@@hxyrihow you speak reminds me of homestyck

[@Afish8me2china]

0:19 ah yes, the item description characterizing scout as a pedo.

[@NeonBlueLight]

Let's be thankful Scout never got a Dr. Disrespect cosmetic loadout 😂

[@zegafin]

​@@NeonBlueLightI saw a video with someone dressing up their Heavy as Dr. Disrespect. They got kicked in a Dustbowl match very quickly after joining.

[@gneu1527]

​@@zegafinLMAO

[@pogggaming4470]

@@zegafinlink?

[@zegafin]

@@pogggaming4470 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGTMn5muZtqHr9ksi=sfiYQnS6qBi0Kpu6

[@MmmMmph1968]

RED team: Ok, they're all dead, the game's over The BLU Scout using the Baby Face's Blaster: *Let's blast off at Super Sonic Speed*

[@Nobody-ue5qs]

I’m probably gonna be “that guy” who ruins the fun but at 0:53…..it’s confirmed that Red and Blu teams are all fronts,and that both sides basically control the world through various company’s and stuff that are ALL just fronts

[@usedhalfcart]

he glosses over a lot of facts just to make this video. fair i guess.

[@pilotbug6100]

I guess that's why the police or any law enforcement are ever involved with the story. Connections

[@jackhudner3804]

That was retconned out. The Administrator (who basically controls both teams at the behest of Redmond and Blutarch Mann) is a powerful figure, but not on the level of world domination.

[@jackhudner3804]

@@pilotbug6100 Actually, the police arrest merasmus in the comics after Miss Pauling (disguised as a cop) sets him up to take the blame for the murder of Tom Jones. Also in that bit where Saxton Hale mentions beating up a bunch of hippies, he also mentions that (off-screen) he had to deal with the police for several pages.

[@AIOXYZ]

i have to put my load for that pay

[@icy_liquid58]

Real shit

[@PURPLE_CANDY2008]

Shit's real

[@RandomBoiBuilds]

My shit is real

[@LeyScar]

I shat

[@k4n4st4]

This is what I've been saying. Tf2 and it's maps always "fell" like some place of a bigger story I don't know about. Even forgetting the comics, the maps are designed in such a beautiful way that I sometimes just stick around on empty servers wandering around and thinking to myself "who put all of this here?" specially in more classic maps like well or badlands (and even 2fort). The new and/or less Tf2-esque maps like Suijin or Odyssey never had that feeling to me. I think this video also encapsulates pretty well the feeling of actually taking part in a mission where you are one of the characters. You can very easily form your own histories, friendships and rivalties over the course of a match, to the point where everyone feels like their own main character. I think this is the reason why in sfm shorts the mercs can vary so wildly. Whereas in an Overwatch short Junkrat is always gonna act like Junkrat, in Tf2 sfms you can have epic and serious scouts, silly engineers, extremely competent heavies and even a sniper that is just adiccted to crack, and no one is gonna think any of it is strange. I believe this is because of how easy it is to insert yourself and the way you play in the character. When you are playing medic it is no longer just the medic, it's an centered and responsable doctor that always put others life first, or it is a completely crazy megolamiac that just wants to play God and stab people, or maybe he is just a egotistic surgeon that enjoys how important he is to everyone else. Idk, tf2 just look so inspiring to me and I'm always fabricating narratives in my head without realizing it. It not only speaks about how good and unique the artstyle is, but the map, gameplay , and character design, that even in its barebones feels like much more than just a silly videogame.

[@Creakstar8]

Guys guys guys The falling action….was FALLING

[@LucidMakesVideos]

Just like how I'm falling for you ;)

[@anthonysatbhabgurung5278]

​@@LucidMakesVideos yo what if that guy is a minor?

[@mrblusky6957]

That payload image of BLU team pushing the cart was always what drew me to the gamemode in the first place. First, I tried it in the tutorial with the Valve bots, had fun, then moved on to the real people. The artistic direction and little details make TF2 as someone once said "a timeless masterpiece"

[@femcelfunhouse]

The feeling of camaraderie that comes from a well coordinated and hard fought game of payload is second to none, and near impossible to feel in any other game. TF2 is a timeless masterpiece, it deserves to live forever.

[@DangerDurians]

There is a greater narrative for the payload in overwatch, just without a “payoff” Numbani had doomfists arm, then orisa’s drum, 66 had echo, Gibraltar is escorting a spaceshuttle to launch, junkertown is escorting junkrats bomb hidden under treasure to the queen’s den as a ploy to get in and blow up the place Every payload map has some story or objective “mission” that fits in the world of overwatch. Hell, in kingsrow, the attackers are terrorists, pushing an emp into the omnic housing district Which *does* go off if the attackers win. Overwatch even has the same setup time for attackers/defenders, often with the attacker’s base being like a hideout with maps and plans strewn about. It’s not hard to tell what the story is even from just those. Splatoon is an in universe sport Splat 3 has the lockers and lobby where people hang out post/pregame, has the accoutrements of people chilling in a locker room, playing cards and whatnot. A sport story might not have the same dramatic pull as pushing a bomb to the enemy’s base, but it’s still got the rising and falling action, the climax and all. And splatoon even has a dynamic soundtrack that can get people pub pushing just as well as an announcer. I don’t think your comparisons to other games really help the point in this video. The real difference is that tf2 is a much more casual game with (often) more open/bigger maps, and bigger lobbies, giving space for gameplay and shenanigans, where other games have maps made basically just to facilitate the gameplay.

[@pez.emikazoo]

I got the TF2 mod that turns the last minute countdown to objective to play Now or Never from Splatoon, it feels so fucking good to pub push to that

[@reichtangleanschluss509]

Problem with Overwatch is that the teams will (often) include both heroes and villains/criminals working together and often for side/faction that makes no sense in universe, nor in lore. Like why would Tracer, Soldier 76, Junkrat, Mercy and Orisa be part of terrorist group at Kingsrow, with Torbjörn, Widowmaker, Doomfist, Lucio and Hanzo trying to stop them? TF2 on the other hand, both teams and their goals make sense: BLU and RED hate each other and wants to defeat/get rid off the other team and have hired mercenaries to do the job.

[@DangerDurians]

⁠@@reichtangleanschluss509I think hero/villain mixing is on the same level of complaining that there are multiple scouts on your team, and clearly he wasn’t born one in a set of identical triplets, and same for the soldier, and engineer. Why would heavy fight himself on the other team just because of a different color shirt? Tf2’s more “open” story of “fuck the other team” lends itself to more interpretations, but in the context of the video “a payload match functions like a story” I don’t think it’s any lesser.

[@pez.emikazoo]

@@DangerDurians I like to fill in the blanks that there are multiple scouts or x class just because they hired different people to perform the same mercenary job, but Overwatch characters are specifically HEROS or flat out villains. They shouldn't work together out of the character principles they wrote into them.

[@shaddysehly5040]

@@DangerDurians its there because if only one person could take one class people couldn't play their favorite class just because someone got to it first, plus in story you could just argue that its not guaranteed who will be one which class, heck you could just argue that they chose to hire multiple people for each class division cause having one of each for no reason other than personal choice would kind of be stupid, the administrator would gladly hire more people just for the sake of having more idiots to fuel the carnage while in overwatch the teams are so story driven that most of the time it just doesn't make sense because of peoples hero choices, why would tracer fight alongside widowmaker? why would mercy work for a terrorist group? why would junkrat of all people work to keep the peace?

[@millios3592]

Some overwatch payloads do have an animation for when you reach the end, like kings row emp, but its true that, without external material, you would have a hard time guessing why youre commiting omnic genocide

[@Jasonwolf1495]

Interesting, I feel the exact opposite about the dynamic where I see Red as the good guys and blu as the bad. Defenders tend to inherently pull hero in my mind.

[@bouncydachon]

Especially with blu being themed around industry and uniformity. While red is themed around more natural and rustic architecture.

[@vps31]

Fun Fact: Gravel was and still sorta is valuable, back then America had a huge highway boom They made highways with gravel so it makes sense why Redmond and Blutarch would fight over gravel

[@fumothfan9]

Rocks can have trace metals too Australium is like the superman of metals. So it all makes sense

[@vps31]

@@fumothfan9 forgot about that lol

[@Slye_Fox]

Only a slight correction here: The gravel only had real value during TF2's time setting (1960's-1970's). When the Mann family first bought the land (~1850), it didn't have this value.

[@pimcast]

Even the newest TF2 maps like embargo maintained this lore by pushing a payload of blue paint to drench the fat stacks of cash at the last point deep into the casino. Edit: To make it clear, the lore I'm talking about is the payload map having a lore and not in the context of the entire tf2 lore. The map is great and all, but it indeed strays from the desolation of the early maps. It's because lucid emphasised that payload maps in other games does not have any lore as to why one team pushes and the other defends it.

[@thehandyfamily806]

My man, on the the blu logos it changes it from builders league united to some other shit. It's also in South America instead of New Mexico. Hell, they were hired by some other dipshits and not Redmond and blutarch. It doesn't maintain the lore at ALL. It his however a good story though. Just doesn't fit in tf2

[@DotMithryLP4]

What if the next comic entry takes place in South America. Ever since Jungle Inferno, Valve has been making it a lot more South American/Brazilian maps and lore

[@ExplodingImplosion]

fr I love the idea of it as like a spin off. Almost like a one-shot comic. It also applies some of the strengths of overwatch’s payload maps + hoodoo/frontier, and then some other community payload maps different payload appearances and sizes, which also makes ppls safety around the payload dynamic throughout the map. Like at first you’re mad vulnerable cuz its a normal payload, then on second and third you’re way safer around it, and later on it goes back the way it used to be Hella setpieces for each checkpoint and stage, plus unique dialogue for each checkpoint (for instance eichenwalde, kings row, junkertown). Snowycoast also has a couple of payload doors, and on each map they’re cool cuz they help break up the pace of the game. Meanwhile on some of tf2s older map, you can get so much momentum off of 1 team wipe that sometimes u don’t get to see the next point play out with a solid defense. Then it adds the “unique objective” gimmick that each Overwatch map has, where it’s always some different macguffin that needs to be delivered, and it even includes prolly the best map-specific ending effect, which is sick cuz the only non explosion end effects I can think of are kings row and dorado (gibraltars rocket doesn’t count) also by being in SA it leans more into the globe-trotting spy trope, which is sick as hell embargo is fuckin fire dawg

[@TheSpacePyro]

They are mercenaries they are paid killers they can be hired by people to do things

[@marcellpinter4031]

@@thehandyfamily806 18 sociopathic mercenaries hired by some dipshit criminals to fight each other for money and/or criminal record erasing? That sounds like TF2 to me :D

[@mememe37]

10:45 TF2 is a hero shooter confirmed

[@HunterStiles651]

It's not? I mean, everyone calls it a "Class-based Shooter" but I'm not exactly sure what the difference is.

[@delcaprascalar1860]

​@@HunterStiles651 It's due to the context, in other games there's heroes who fight against the evil in order to protect the innocent or something, in TF2 it's a bunch of Mercenaries who are there for a contract just professionals in the field of killing doing their stuff because someone with the enough money to pay them to do what they are doing

[@liqu8fish]

@@HunterStiles651 tf2 is a hero shooter though, because at this point hero shooter just means a game where the classes have notably unique abilities and personalities.

[@FrancisL4D]

​@@HunterStiles651class-based evolved into hero shooters. Tf2 is in the middle.

[@alexanderticonuwu7591]

​@@FrancisL4D It's a sliding scale, yeah. Overwatch is way over to the Hero Shooter corner while TF2 is somewhere between it and traditional shooters like CoD alongside Garden Warfare.

[@GustavoSuperSonic2001]

This has to be one of the best TF2 videos I've seen. I've never thought about this narrative side of payload. Lucid keeps getting the good stuff, with a great editing. Good stuff man

[@TheEventGuy]

Interesting editing and choice of words @4:15 while showing tracks that aren't used and lead nowhere.

[@Pygargue00fr]

Fun fact: the early lore of tf2 tells the story of RED and BLU each owning half of the world's governments and fighting for global domination with each maps being facade for hidden cold war era spying facilities. This was essentially redconned rather early on.

[@Vivian-Butterscotch]

Damn

[@regionfuego6]

You know, i don't know why but I really thought the video as about the story narrated by the map and the setting, like how the game begins in somewhere relatively peaceful and ends up in a massive building which implies something greater happening than we realize.

[@lambda6564]

The game "Chivalry: Medieval Warfare" actually had a good implementation of the payload mode. As part of larger siege missions the attackers would need to escort a car full of explosives or a ram through the battlefield to break through a castle gate. From all the other games who tried to implement payload, I think this is the best example for it. It's spiritual successors Civalry 2 and Mordhaus have similar features, but Chiv1 did it a little better in my opinion.

[@VexagonGD]

5:13 he said a "Great Gameplay Experience" at the moment a Phlog-Medic combo was on screen, now that's ironic😥

[@TheSurvivor637]

I know you mentioned the defending team being portrayed as the villains, but there’s just such a special feeling of tension when the cart is just about to be captured and you and your team are desperately fighting to hold off the attacking team.

[@demongamer_IX]

1:55 clipping too high, hearing gone.

[@KoiKai]

Overwatch's payload mode often clearly tells a story. You showed clips of the payload that delivers treasure to the "queen" at the end of the map. There's a map where you deliver a bomb that's implied to be used to destroy an entire underground city of robots. Not all of the maps have a story, but saying none of them do just isn't true.

[@modman287]

12:09 technically those do serve a purpose, the space plane is being carried to be loaded onto the larger shuttle at the end, and the gold bomb is junkrat and roadhog basically giving the middle finger to the junkerqueen and blowing up her thrown/gold hoard with her own money

[@IsYeaYesyup]

say "payload" but replace the "p" with "g" calm down BLU.. it's called RED humour.

[@LucidLIVE-h6c]

Woah! He clearly REALLY likes it!

[@alex.g7317]

Likes what?

[@shapeswitch_mood7221]

I think this is well reflected on the modern maps of payload made by the community. Some even added voice acting to illustrate the purpose of these rounds, and let's not forget how great the scenery are!

[@Cadette4448]

Lucid Letters never fails to deliver

[@typicalgentleman]

He definitely uploaded this early to avoid 9/11 jokes.

[@fumothfan9]

💀💀💀

[@PostboxAnimation]

My favourite part of payload has to be also the spawn rooms of red. At the first spawn it looks very rushed and put together while at the last spawn it looks very built up with computers and even activily used things like coffee mugs and pencils. Just goes to show how important some of these bases are

[@BM-yy8db]

It's a very interesting thing to break down the payload map as a sort of interactive narrative, fun watch! I do want to make a counterpoint to some of your points about the Overwatch payloads' lack of storytelling and payoff. Even without actively looking into it lore-wise, as a (former) OW player it was always quite clear to me what the majority of the payloads did or represent, and they do all have a narrative. I do admit that they are not always clear, like I wouldn't have figured out Dorado without looking it up, but: - Watchpoint Gibraltar: the payload is the literal payload of the rocket at the end of the map. It even has payoff: In the victory screen you can actually see the rocket taking off in the background. Narratively why are we trying to launch it/stop it from launching? Given Gibraltar's connection with Overwatch and Winston's trailer, presumably this is tied to the recall signal that Winston transmits, something Talon would want to prevent. - Junkertown: this map was released with a bunch of fanfare and its own cinematic that told you exactly what the payload's goal is, story-wise. But even without having seen that it's not hard to figure out that the idea of delivering a stash of gold with "hidden" bombs directly into the vault of junkertown, directly into to the throneroom in the center would be indicative of you trying to pull off / prevent a trojan horse scenario. - Route 66: The mysterious nature of the payload here served a narrative function in the greater story. Initially all we knew was what we could see: you're pushing a techy looking mystery pod from a bunch of broken trains to the middle of a terrorist headquarters. The whole map's point was to make you question what it was you were delivering, as a teaser, and this was paid off with the reveal of Echo in the Ashe release cinematic. Telling exactly what happened here and why. - Rialto: By visual storytelling it's clear the final point is Talon HQ. The payload has a shipment crate on it, and while it's not clear what's in it, it's clear that Talon wants it delivered. And if Talon wants it, it's in the good guys' best interest to stop that from happening. A bit of a lack of depth there, but not terrible. - Eichenwalde: You need a battering ram to get into the castle, presumably to reclaim the dead guy's suit of armor. - Hollywood: escorting a VIP to safety - Numbani: escorting Doomfist's Gauntlet to a museum without getting it stolen on the way While there are definitely maps in the list that are narratively much less clearly defined, or impossible to figure out without looking it up, such as: - Dorado: You're apparently delivering a vital piece of technology to a powerplant. Good luck figuring that one out without checking wiki's - King's Row: You're delivering an EMP to the undercity where all the Omnics live, basically genociding them. I don't think there's anything to indicate that that's what you're doing, but honorable mention to this one having a visual payoff with the payload blasting out an electrical energy wave when you deliver it. - Blizzard World: Fuck Blizzard World (I stopped playing Overwatch when OW2 came out so any payload maps beyond that I wouldn't know about) I write all this because it seems to me that to go that deep into TF2's payload's storytelling whilst outright dismissing the storytelling of Overwatch's payloads seems like an oversight at best. I love TF2, but in terms of Payload-narrative it consistently comes down to "push bomb: blow up enemy base" whereas Overwatch, flawed as it may be, does have a lot more narrative variation in their payload goals, and it comes across clearer to players paying attention to visual storytelling than you might give it credit for here.

[@amiiboking569]

Videos like these are so interesting, I miss lower quality edited videos focused more on the script. Every video is edited to hell these days trying to grab your attention every second. Love this

[@ct3000]

6:06 I love how your talking about people just chilling in the pre match and in your footage there's people sharing thier OC's in the text chat, I love the artists that play tf2 🥺

[@ENDfilms44]

I wouldn't say OW was the first to adapt payload, as games before OW and even some before TF2 have similar game modes. For example Splash Damage's lineage of class-based shooters (the Enemy Territory games in the 2000's, Brink in 2011, then Dirty Bomb in 2015) typically have sections in their standard modes were you have to repair and escort a vehicle from one section of the map to another (it's closer to OW's "hybrid" maps than TF2's pure payload, but still in the same vein).

[@ENDfilms44]

Also Dirty Bomb did a pretty decent job with match story telling, helped by the 2 announcers (one for the attacks and one for the defenders) as well as scripted animations at the ends of segments (ie the payload destroying a wall or anti-air battery before you then capture the final objective in the next area that gets flown out by helicopter).

[@FzeroVaporeon]

The splatoon series has Tower control which is like payload, you have to climb a tower (more like a block) and standing on it causes it to move, with the goal being to move it into the enemy base where there's a goal, you also have to hold your position at checkpoints to keep going. Unlike tf2, this is the goal of both teams, the tower starts in the middle and any team can push it. If you get on top of the tower after an enemy has pushed it towards your goal you can reverse it to make progress for your team going backwards out of your area and into the enemy, but the progress they made stays, whichever team has made it the farthest into the enemy area by the end of the timer wins, or of course if they get to the goal they win by knockout immediately.

[@FzeroVaporeon]

Wait I'm stupid they just talked about it later in the video 😭

[@retrohero5475]

One thing i wish more payload modes in games would do is to make payload be a more than one round experience. If payload is just one round of attack vs defense, it has to be balanced around either side conceivably winning, which I think hurts this narrative you're talking about. Red, or whatever the defending team may be, doesnt really feel good to win as or lose to if they do incredibly well. Nothing happens if defense wins, quite literally. I think a way of making this feel less dissapointing is to have it always be a sort of payload race, seperated by rounds. Instead of just trying to stop something from happening, you're trying to defend your score or prevent the enemy from getting too good of a headstart.

[@ThatNoobKing]

12:50 I mean, it makes sense for splatoon. They are just playing a game in universe

[@bigheadtales]

Nice analysis. I wonder how much was by design by Valve and how much was serendipity?

[@oxximorastic]

"the cart is not moving lads!"

[@Pudding404]

Lucid just used the plot chart for the entirety of payload matches. I feel there's some college presentation potential somewhere in here. Except hightower, no one does the payload race there, lol.

[@Mark-qe2gc]

1:19 happy birthday to Storm

[@Bazaar_Bargain_main]

Im gonna wait for CP, CTF, PR, KOTH, A/D and PASS Time lore.

[@thedestroyerofworlds8685]

NOOOOOO DONT ABBREVIATE CONTROL POINT!!!!

[@modman287]

1:50 literally last night was playing corruption, which is payload, and as demoman I was lobbing grenades around the bomb but no one was on it and the enemy was up ahead, and my demo goes "the carts not moving lads!" I rush up on it, in game turn my back against it to watch for spies, but then he goes "put your backs into it!" And I imagined sfm style my demoman character trying to push it using his back and legs, and then the others on my team saw me and rushed up to push with me. As they did I was able to focus on lobbing more grenades and heads with my sword... That's... Story. I've had a different match where I killed a spy with a 'lucky' grenade, and I let my guard down because I saw the kill icon... But didn't check my kill count. He snuck up on me and backstabbed me just as I was feeling safe. From then on the whole match I was hunting him while he was hunting me. That's. Story. I don't give a fuck about what new overwatch character comes out to tell me their life story. I just want the game to give me a chance to make them for myself.

[@unsureprobablymaybe3527]

I know garden warfare doesnt have a payload game mode but its main gamemode is 5 control point but only the attacking team can cap. Its really similar to payload storywise as something happens when the attacking team wins, but something also happens when the defending team wins and i just wished things happened when red defended the final point too

[@Michael-f9f4d]

I would just like to say that red team is the protagonist in the overall tf2 story

[@Shibacki]

Man your writing is just top notch. This was a great watch

[@PolishSheriffProductions]

What about the payload on King's Row? You're literally delivering an EMP bomb to an Omnic town to commit domestic terrorism and it explodes at the end.

[@DrippedMrKrabs]

What a brilliant video that touches on what hasn't been said. The brilliance of Payload and why it fits so successfully in tf2. TF2's artstyle really does tell a brilliant story and leave more questions than answers that the player will never get.

[@BadNewsBrendon]

Great video! Keep up the great stuff, loving the last couple of uploads

[@TheArchangelSeth]

These types of video essays are my favorite when it comes to TF2, Props to you for making this!

[@DJBaphomet]

I love the way Payload is explained and dissected here and why it works, but the video soured a bit for me when it came to bringing up Overwatch and its "lack of story" for payload. While it's true that the matches you play lack a lot of context, primarily because they're considered non-canonical (while the overall story of the map are a display of canon, much like TF2 where matches are non-canonical but the map itself is), saying Overwatch doesn't present much story is just a flat out misrepresentation of what is widely considered the best part of the game, the lore Every Escort/Hybrid map has a unique payload which has a reason to be pushed, some make the defenders the good guys, like King's Row where the attacking team is escorting a literal EMP into the omnic's housing district, a genuine terrorist attack. While other maps make the defenders the bad guys, like Circuit Royal, where the attacking team is transporting a racecar which is presumably meant to race in the Formula Lux (OW's succession of Formula 1) race that's taking place all around Circuit Royal (the race track lines the map) In Dorado you're delivering a fusion core to the LumériCo power plant, in Rialto you're delivering an illegal shipment for Talon, in Gibraltar you're delivering a satellite drone for takeoff (which is why that massive rocket is there on the last point), Junkertown you're pushing a bomb disguised as a treasure hoard from Junkrat and Roadhog's shack in an attempt to break in and bomb Junkertown (there was LITERALLY a short about this that came with Junkertown's map release), EVERY MAP has a unique payload with a story behind it! The only two that didn't were Route 66 and Numbani, which were later updated when the story made more sense, with Numbani's payload containing Doomfist's gauntlet being delivered to the museum (which was later stolen when Doomfist was close to release to tease his existence), and Route 66 used to just be a random delivery to the Deadlock Gang's hideout, until Echo was close to release where the package was changed into Echo's capsule, which is seen in the Reunion short in preparation for Echo's release! While yes, it's true that you have to look outside the game to fully understand this, that doesn't make the maps lack story. The thing people love the most about Overwatch is the story, it's why the game is so big even 8 years later, and suggesting that it's just Not There is either ignorance or a lack of care about the subject, which stings when the first half of the video is so well-written, and it comes off as just dunking on Overwatch because you want to dunk on Overwatch instead of genuinely trying to look deeper into how it handles the "Story of Payload" as you'd put it This also comes further when you consider that TF2 is a far more casual game, and the "story" of a payload match just comes down to how the map is designed and what you experience in a match, while Overwatch is a far more competitive game, so a match largely focuses on the gameplay rather than the lore. And even despite that, Overwatch tries its hardest to make beautiful maps with deep lore behind them, *especially* when it comes to Escort/Hybrid maps, and it does an absolutely amazing job if you just look a bit deeper than the gameplay (which is what you're doing here for TF2). While the "Story of Payload" in TF2 is presented through the player match, the "Story of Payload" in Overwatch is presented by the actual map's design and lore, the two take different angles. (I'd also make a comment about Splatoon's gamemodes being in-universe competitive sports which is why they lack an overall "why is this happening" context but multiple other comments have done that already)

[@LucidMakesVideos]

I'm aware, but the video was more about story presented *within* the game's themselves. There, of course, exist reasons for why certain payloads in Overwatch are there, but you have to engage in material outside of Overwatch itself in order to figure most of it out. It's incredibly difficult to figure out why you're pushing the Hollywood payload in the game, and therefore it's not easy for players to invest themselves in the matches from a story perspective. In short, Overwatch and Splatoon *do* have backgrounds for why they happen, but they aren't presented in the modes themselves. It doesn't make it bad, it just means that it doesn't have the same benefit that TF2's payload does, where the story is quite self-explanatory.

[@themather1]

@@LucidMakesVideos Some of the maps you have to engage with content outside of the game to understand. But in a lot of them, the context clues are all there in the maps themselves. Junker Town especially, the attacking spawn literally has a massive chalkboard right next to the door, describing the steps to Junkrat's plan.

[@DJBaphomet]

@@LucidMakesVideos I'd argue it really isn't hard at all to figure out why you're pushing Hollywood's payload. The guy in the limo literally yaps all the damn time, I feel it's fairly clear that you're meant to be transporting him to the studio, or as mather mentioned, Junkertown giving you a Ton of context clues in the attacker base. There are definitely maps where it's less obvious like Rialto, or where there are way lower stakes like Shambali where you're just transporting a random local truck, or where you do *need* to know out-of-game lore to understand it like Route 66. I won't deny that players rarely invest themselves in the match's "story" but that's not because of the lack of the lore like the wording in the video suggests, that's because of the format of the game, and it being far, far more competitive than TF2 by design. Every player matters and you don't really have time to be thinking out a story of the match when you're worrying about ults and what abilities they have and what your team is doing. My main contention is that the mention of Overwatch was communicated in a way where instead of saying/specifying there's no *player-made* story in matches like with TF2, it made it sound like the game has No Story At All when it comes to its payload maps, which is flat out untrue, and it says that instead of exploring *why* players don't make that personal story (Which is because it's a highly competitive environment, even playing casually.) I think this could've been a major point of the video that helps uplift how TF2 does it instead of just "Other games don't/barely try" when they in fact do, it's just that the mental environment that players are playing in is entirely different between these games.

[@LucidMakesVideos]

@@DJBaphomet I think we just disagree. I never said that OW has *no* story. I even admit that there are probably reasons for why the payloads are being pushed. However, I think the majority of those reasons are difficult to figure out from the in-game matches alone. I talked to several OW players before and since the videos release, and *none* of them knew what Hollywood's payload was, much less the other payloads in other maps. If you think the story is well communicated in OW's payload maps, I think we just gotta agree to disagree, because I don't think it is at all.

[@3cheeseshigh]

0:18 nah not the fuckin track terrorizer😭

[@cebul9267]

A really good video! Glad to see awesome content like this! 10/10

[@DrHorribleDH]

I made more friends through Payload than any other gamemode. Ran into (multiple) groups who play exclusively payload, and specific people who play exclusively payload. I've seen more cases of other people befriending eachother and I've even seen more enemies made on this gamemode compared to any other. I was never emotionally invested in other goal-based first person shooters, but I have genuinely shed tears over a match of Payload. (I am a Medic main so it may or may not have been tears of pain LOL) The story built and the relationships garnered throughout your matches is outstanding, even on the long term. I know there are groups of people who play Payload exclusively because I've played with a group! And while playing with them we've found OTHER GROUPS! Building a group of people that you can rely on to queue up with and work together on the seemingly simple journey of a Payload match (and not really have to worry about all the non-TF2 stuff) is incredibly rewarding and it's always been my favorite part of Payload, and also just TF2 in general. Or maybe I'm a deranged Medic collecting pockets. I can't tell yet.

[@dr.cheeze5382]

I feel like something rarely talked about when it comes to upwards final point is the ramp and ramamifications it has on the gameplay of the last point. In a lot payload maps there isn't a ramp to buffer red, so the entire point is built around giving as much control as possible with the idea being that once blu finally cracks red, they win by default. But upward gives much more control to blu, leaving the teams at about a two thirds split, leading to far more chaotic a dramatic fights.

[@NoBloons]

The payload image is exactly how it feels to play medic. You're behind a heavy, in the middel of many other teammates. And the huntsman hits you of all things.

[@hixx-fn5rh]

This was such a well made video great work!

[@queencity778]

Some of overwatch's payloads actual do have stories. But not in the way tf2's do. The payload on junkertown was a trick to get into junkertown made by junkrat and roadhog after they were banned. And before doomfist's release as a playable hero the payload on numbani had his gauntlet in a glass box on it. A couple weeks or so before his release and announcement the glass had broken and the gauntlet was gone. Im sure there is more but thats all i can remember off the top of my head.

[@jvbfjvbf]

High quality video! Amazing!

[@szelski.]

Wasnt payload inspired from the civilian game mode of team fortress classic

[@valeriorocket3620]

great video! i never looked at it that way but it makes a lot more sense now

[@justinyuen4950]

I think embargo is a map worth mentioning for its unique story compared to the other maps. It makes red team to be more of a villain since the announcers are different for each side. There is also a really cool section where blue team puts the paint bomb in a truck to smuggle it into the casino.

[@Dizeased]

I love that each payload map can tell its own story based off the map design alone. Posters, and objects help the player come up with their own reasoning on why blu is pushing the cart at this specific red controlled area. I think embargo is my all time favorite because of that. Side note, I think overwatch does the payload narrative decently well on some select maps, as someone who was in love with the game since closed beta WAYYY back in 2016 I was a huge story nerd with the series and each map has its own. Kings row is probably the most fucked up one in that youre transporting an emp to the heart of where all the ominics live in kings row. Basically to kill them, Junkertown was junkrats plan to get payback from the queen for kicking him and roadhog out, its even a SFM short they made thats on the overwatch youtube channel. Im not so sure about the newer maps admittedly because I've lost interest since ow2.

[@LiamBowie]

WHOAH! The quality is australium gold.👌

[@dustsans3476]

7:45 unless when the engineer is spaming the short circuit from the payload cart

[@elpato20001]

0:52 I think the former is still very much true as the gravel wars were clearly just a distraction and means for the administrator to advance her own interests.

[@mistercue]

No wutville mentions, L video

[@nata-it7ez]

Wutville is to be reworked by it's creator i beliave

[@parkerdude5682]

Another Lucid masterpiece

[@schalad1302]

he clearly likes it AND I DO TOO LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO

[@ozgurkurtoglu6005]

Splatoon and Tf2 are my go 2 shooters so Payload being in both of them are awsome for me . The splatoon’s payload story for me is a bunch of inklings having fun so yeah Splatoons story thing is True both are Fun .

[@UponFurtherReviewPodcast]

He clearly likes it!

[@CookTF2]

0:18 TF2 confirmed Soulsborne-like.

[@Spy_sappin_my_sentery]

And there is that one hoovie what turns server from story into a sitcom funny televission.

[@ItsDesca]

I used to play overwatch all the time, there was so much whiplash getting into tf2 with how genuinely thought out and well cared for the game is

[@maxresdefault_]

I love the environmental storytelling in Swiftwater. This mode has seems to lend itself well to that kind of story

[@Korozija]

Builders League United tries to destroy by pushing the cart, Reliable Excavation Demolition tries to stop the destruction.

[@CursedSFMS]

5:51 music? a kind fellow told me it was Invective-Karl Casey

[@GregoryGaming942]

Yeah its music

[@CursedSFMS]

@@GregoryGaming942 [Shocked black man with agape mouth and hands on head]

[@dacousinscousin]

​@@CursedSFMS Invective-Karl Casey

[@CursedSFMS]

@@dacousinscousin Thank you so much

[@dacousinscousin]

@@CursedSFMS :P

[@Sustrii]

And for some strange reason, they all avoid the payload like a cat avoids water. Anyway the payload on Junkertown consists of the riches Junkrat and Roadhog collected in their global heist spree along with a "surprise" of explosive as revenge for being exiled.

[@CidCDdrafts]

Payload be like: Snowballing stomp push Casual matchmaking end screen

[@---Shiny428---]

I'm sure it was developed from the mode mentioned in the video; I wasn't actually playing Fortnite at that point, but the Fortnite: Save the World game mode also has a payload escort mode that comes around every summer called Hit the Road. It's a class-based horde shooter, so the individual strengths of each class get to shine pretty nicely :)

[@TheAmberFang]

Something you've implied but didn't quite get into is how much of a high it is when you get to have a big climactic moment of your own. It came to my mind when you showed a brief clip of a Blue Engineer setting up a sentry on Upward last: it's one of those moments that you plan, build up, and have to find the perfect timing for, and it's amazing when you just know it was what secured a victory. But it's a moment that can happen for just about any class in any number of ways. Blue Spy getting a sneaky last push when the rest of the team has fallen. TF2 provides that opportunity to *be* the hero of the (payload) story in a way that, as you've laid out, is just paid off better than in other supposed "hero" shooters that have come after.

[@crimsontanooki7212]

You did a video covering supports and tanks, would you do one for DPS/offense?

[@dennisv1882]

The most recent pl map, Embargo, really emphasizes on this, and I really like it :)

[@XDZ_Bryam000]

I've been playing for a month and I can't stop playing tf2, it has something special that I can't describe. The tf2 community is, I believe, the most loyal ever. years without updating content and still playing? No new game could do that without dying. The tf2 community has all my respect.

[@professorlizzard2509]

Payload has always been my favourite for its clarity of objective, and due to how the battlefield changes and gets recontextualized as the match progresses. Defensive areas getting used by the offense past a certain point and such. Also, I was always of the opinion that if RED wins on payload, the bomb should roll all the way back to the BLUE spawn room and explode there, ensuring both teams have a good narrative end. It might be silly, but more importantly, it would be fun and funny.

[@robbartist37]

There’s one version of payload I remember a lot that is the pvz Garden Warfare turf takeover map of cactus canyon or something like that, where the zombies need to push a bomb into a giant golf course hole to destroy it and take it for themselfs because they find it fun. I think that’s the story at least it’s been a while since I played that game

[@Kalergi_Plan_Accelerationist]

Fr, payload is literally the only mode I'm playing. Others don't feel the same. The last stand. U giving your all to win. It's beautiful experience.

[@blub9607]

upward: the movie

[@NiCoNiCoNiCola]

Best hidden narrative about Payload: BLU, an organisation of builders are destroying buildings belonging to RED, who are an organisation which mainly does demolition I'm not sure if Valve intended this as a joke or what, but I genuinely love this

[@adam-Qt2]

the problem I think with payload(at least as you said) is that theres a "hero" and a "villan" team. I dont mind playing either but i think devs want everyone to feel like the hero, hence the move to payload modes where both teams can push

[@shiro_says894]

That soldier in the BLU spawn room is 100% Zesty Jesus

[@gneu1527]

Blu team: push Red team: stop them