[TF2] - The most overrated items for each class

[@rymatin]

How are you not popular? Your videos are entertaining, informative, and good quality. You earned a subscribe from me. Also pin for pizza

[@indigomer]

@rymatin I will pin for sausage balls instead

[@bruhmomento2985]

His videos being entertaining, informative and good quality is the exact reason why he's not popular and will never be, because that's how modern KZbin works

[@zurdoo0]

becuz it's the same type of content as every other tf2 youtuber, background gameplay and png images

[@widelia2008]

@@indigomerballs

[@indigomer]

@@widelia2008 like this video if you enjoy balls

[@ProfessionalEepyHead]

We don’t hate the vaccinator because it’s overpowered, we hate the vaccinator because it’s frustrating and not fun to fight against.

[@gingerpirate3624]

WRONG! OVERPOWERED! I PLAY HEAVY AND IT MAKES ME SAD! OVERPOWERED!

[@herec0mestheCh33f]

I mean it's the go to for making cheaters' lives unfun for a reason

[@jaumesillozzo]

I'm sorry but your comment doesn't make much sense. The Vaccinator is a medigun. All of the mediguns works the same. "Fighting against" any mediguns is the same "strategy". So, it's hard to believe the vaccinator really makes that much of a difference.

[@ProfessionalEepyHead]

@ in simple terms: if you hit all your shots on other mediguns, they will drop even with the constant healing and overheal The vaccinator denies most of that damage, you could hit all your shots while the enemy miss all they want and you’d still end up losing The vaccinator also has a faster Uber rate so it makes the “win any one enemy encounter” button even more expendable along with just spamming cycling the resistances The counter is just focus fire which is already super hard to come by in pubs or use the enforcer Basically: you can still win if you’re way better when you’re fighting a normal medigun because it’ll be unlikely they’ll waste their Uber on one person. The vaccinator on the other hand could cheese encounters and there’s almost no risk to using the Uber due to how fast it charges.

[@ttty2242]

@@jaumesillozzo the vaxx prevents you from dropping the med, when you get the spring on him he just pops a resistance and runs away. You're limited to the same strategies but now the medic can just avoid any damage you may output if he has at least one charge (which they almost always do) (even if you're playing as pyro/soldier with a shotgun, they only need 2 to resist everything you can output).

[@nolol1388]

This just sounds like weapon stereotypes ngl

[@Neogears1312]

Cept it’s not done by a smarmy douche.

[@TheFunnyLookin]

It's missing something tho.. (Soundsmith stereotype music slowly fading in)

[@PentaromaLMA0]

creativity is dead broken heart emoji

[@ElVictorEmilio]

What does nlg means

[@nolol1388]

@ “Not Gonna Lie”

[@AkiraSatou]

EVERYONE sleeps on the sodapopper, even in comp. The reload speed and "uptime" of the gun is surprisingly high despite only having 2 shots per reload.

[@ireallydontknow278]

+ because it has the same damage and the same amount of pellets as stock it doesn't suffer as much in damage as other scatter guns Also it doesn't have dumb knockback and it's accuracy is the exact same as stock if I had to choose an unlock over stock the soda popper gets the spot for me just because it's surprisingly consistent

[@poker3542]

Not really I see a lot of people say soda pop is scout's second best weapon people really sleep on bfb tho

[@Anshhhhhhhhhk]

not a single person sleeps on it. literally everyone knows that the soda popper is cracked as shit. the only reason no one uses it is because of consistency and the fact thats its banned due to how powerful it is

[@Potato-ei4fd]

@@AkiraSatou it’s banned in comp because of the ability, but even still it’d be a niche strategy at best. The scattergun is just way too important especially in 6’s.

[@JackNick2000]

I find the worst parts about the Vaccinator are A) most classes are restricted to 1 damage type + melee and B) the Vaccinator is the only medigun that lets you do the objective while ubered

[@indigomer]

@@JackNick2000 I can agree on that part at least, especially since the quick fix can’t do it so it’s a double standard. I would be fine with that feature removed.

[@TheRealFlyingRaptor]

Another few problems I find are that it charges uber while an uber is active and also it can stack multiple damage types for short periods of time which is really tereible to deal with. Few medics have it down but the ones that do make me want to bash my head through a wall.

[@TheTdw2000]

The vaccinator trades team pushing ability for the ability to pocket one dude and let him win 1v1s easier. It's balanced, you just need to stop trying to win 2v1s.

[@Walumancer]

You can cap while Ubering with the Kritzkrieg too.

[@filelost9194]

​@@WalumancerThe difference with that Medigun is that it's not a survivability effect. Since capping probably means most of the enemy is dead anyway, using Vacc charges to guarantee a win feels cheap when any other effect could be countered, especially since the Vacc will almost always have charges. Worst case scenario with Kritzkreig is that the pocket is playing DOOM while every player on the enemy team focuses them down to kill them, which will probably kill the Medic anyway.

[@lumiperuna]

I used to only wear gunboats but now I always use the shotgun instead because I hate pyros. Dealing with jumping scouts is easier too. Edit: 6:03 Is that Sly 2 OST I hear?! Man of culture, respect 🫡

[@bestestbread]

9:30 I actually love the panic attack’s sound design and it’s partly why I use it over stock.

[@smithbabies7886]

I only use stock because everytime I fire that gun at someone my pecker gets a little more excited, while the panic attack doesn't give me the same rush. To each their own

[@hylianmango8272]

"it sounds like a cereal box" -Uncle dane

[@sufficient4834]

You might think the Disciplinary Action is just a support tool, until you learn that it has three times the range

[@indigomer]

@@sufficient4834 and soldier is not built for melee combat and that only comes into play for places like medieval and the occasional “fuck it” moments

[@kolja783]

holy shit I didn't know this

[@polluxon]

@@indigomer consider: self damage and no shotgun (banners)

[@superbaddy4]

My big Hot Take: No Weapon in the game is more overrated than the Frying Pan. I can’t stand how much people glaze it non-stop, and that’s for just a Stock Reskin.

[@indigomer]

@@superbaddy4 I mean people use it as a meme, it’s an old joke but for a lot of us it’s better than a boring stock melee.

[@TYlolex]

loud = funny

[@Manny4Life948]

Counterpoint: I find the noises when it hits a player pretty amusing

[@Pyrosmosis]

​@@TYlolexagreed

[@ChaseyMcChaseyHead]

pan < superbaddy4

[@shardzard2365]

Entirely disagree with the vaccinator claim. 25% vaccinator Uber takes less time to charge than any other Uber, blocks enough damage while healing the target to basically make them in vulnerable, and you can even make a gun spy out damage a heavy with the vaccinator. It is the freest win in the game for the medic’s team

[@indigomer]

@@shardzard2365 a vaccinator uber is not invulnerable, I have had pockets die to their resisted type more than a few times. The charges are faster than full charge on other mediguns but they’re balanced out by only lasting 2 seconds as opposed to 8. And I would be confident in saying that a gun spy under quick fix could probably out damage a heavy, the revolver is no slouch.

[@shardzard2365]

I hit 3 directs and one splash from my grenade launcher on a medic with explosive resistance and he didn’t die.

[@indigomer]

@ Counter, were you alone?

[@shardzard2365]

In that scenario, yes. But the rest of the time was team v team

[@indigomer]

@ perhaps I’m wrong but maybe if you’re attacking a medic alone under some form of ubercharge then you shouldn’t be able to kill him alone?

[@DashM-O]

while i can see why you picked the stock scattergun for scout, it's praised so much for good reason, it's consistently good, has the highest tube size, and doesn't have any gimmicks. It deserves the praise 100%

[@indigomer]

@DashM-O it deserves praise, it is the best, it should be the most used. I called it overrated because so many scouts think it’s the only good option at all, as if you’re an idiot for using anything else. Which is not the case because the others are all very good in themselves.

[@twpsyn]

@@indigomer you're justified in calling it overrated, the soda popper exists and at it's skill ceiling it's objectively better than the scattergun in dps, burst and the hype making you win almost every fight you use it in if you can move and strafe well

[@potatoweaver4116]

@@twpsyn No it really isn't objectively better. First off DPS is completely relevant on Scout, it simply doesn't matter because Scout is a burst damage class. The Scattergun is typically considered better because it has better sustained damage. Basically imagine you're in 1v1 with another Scout. You're using the Soda Popper and he's using the Scattergun, you fire both shots and hit both, but he's still alive. Well now he can just win the 1v1 for free while you're reloading because he basically has a bottomless clip compared to you. The only way the Soda Popper is considered better is if you're comparing them in a sterilized testing chamber, but in practice the Scattergun is better. The hype is extremely good against Soldiers and Demos, but Scout is already really strong against them at high levels of play so it's better to stick with the primary that is most effective against other Scouts.

[@FredFaz-h7e]

@@potatoweaver4116both scouts miss their shots in 1v1s so doesn’t mattee

[@potatoweaver4116]

@@FredFaz-h7e If they are bad then yeah, but I'm obviously talking about good Scout players.

[@xennex2433]

12:33 doesn’t the vac block 2? Like you can stack them if I’m not mistaken

[@cuenta2-n1v]

Yes you can

[@SharkOSix]

You can actually get all 3 I've seen it on bread space a couple days ago and yeah we couldn't push out of spawn

[@potatoweaver4116]

Yes you can stack them and use the Crossbow while using an uber, and build another uber while using an uber too.

[@wisbilt1650]

You can stack all three, but you want to avoid stacking them because if you are constantly in situations where you must stack you are either positioning wrong or in a situation where stock is better

[@SharkOSix]

@wisbilt1650 why would you want avoid stacking all 3? Your acting like it's a debuff

[@Fofenho]

new slop fresh from the tf2ber factory just dropped

[@indigomer]

Eat up

[@Willistheclown]

The slop thickens

[@alvisigiuliano6184]

Why are you calling this slop? (genuine question)

[@Willistheclown]

@alvisigiuliano6184 its a joke lol

[@BUNOBUNO-so5nu]

Tbh, I expected low effort slop, brain dead balance opinions, just like a different top 10 most overrated weapons on tf2 vid. But I’m pleasantly surprised. A discussion of meta fetishcism? Not saying that the weapon is bad, just pointing out theres other options? Not putting down people who use it? Nuance in a video essay in 2024? Fucking incredible. Keep cooking. You have my sub.

[@indigomer]

@@BUNOBUNO-so5nu I mean I have gotten a few people calling it slop anyway so, there’s that.

[@RealRoid]

4:56 and THAT is the exact reason I love gunboats. It just allows to do insane and hilarious shit with beggar's like flying across an entire map and confusing everyone in a server

[@indigomer]

@@RealRoid I love the gunboats too, beggar’s jumping is awesome. I was mostly pointing out that most gunboat users treat them like none of the other secondaries are worth using.

[@wazoo41]

Good video quality, only one issue: about half of the reasons you gave for why any given item is overrated was "it's boring" or along that line of thought. That's not helpful, it's not even an opinion, it's barely an argument worth mentioning. Half of the video is a valid discussion such as the scout and medic segments. Good arguments. Then you say wrangler is boring, as if being a stale meta pick is always entirely uninteresting without exception. I did agree with most of your real points though. You did not take into account that jumpscare heavy is the way to play tomislav, however.

[@wazoo41]

Would like a sequel but without "boring" being used as the argument. Unfun could work, however. Quite a few unfun things, i.e. sniper.

[@indigomer]

@@wazoo41 I would say “it’s boring” mostly because of those items which are good in their own right, but if they were half as good as people make them out to be you’d never see other options. Also the wrangler isn’t boring, it’s broken. Unbalanced, overpowered.

[@coldstarcommand]

​@indigomer i personally think the wrangler should be split into two weapons one that gives a shield at the cost of rate of fire, and the other that increases rate of fire bit makes the sentry more vulnerable to damage. That alone would fix it and give the engineer one more weapon and more nuance for what to choose for what situation.

[@indigomer]

@ I think the shield should just be gone. Sentries are hard enough to kill with all the tanking and cooperative engineering, they don’t need any resistances stacked on top.

[@coldstarcommand]

@indigomer i dont think it should just be gone just nerfed.sentries aren't that hard to kill, 3 normal or 2 direct hit rockets can kill a lv 3.

[@Just_a_Dragon69]

I dont want to argue about anything i just want to make something clear: let say a heavy is being atacked by 3 demos, each shoot a pill and kill him 100x3=300 Now lets add the vaccinator to the acuation The demos need to dump their whole clip into the heavy (100-75) 25x12=300 Now lets say the granade launcher fires every half second, and say that vaccinator heals 24 per second, that makes it so every second pill of one demo makes 1 damage effectively un other words you need arround 33% more pipes to kill a heavy just because a medic pressed M2 and yes you can do it whit stock, but once the 8 secons are done they are dead, 4 vacc uvers las 8 seconds but can recharge mid uber too and blocks 100% of crits (just to make it so much fun to fight against) if having to change class to kill a sentry is annoying imagine having to do the same for 2 moving targets Sorry for all the rant, i just really undestand everyones pain whit this weapon and hearing someone saying "is not that bad" just sounds wrong, and dont take this as an attack the video was really fun to watch, its just that that was a little of a very hot take

[@_-Huligan-_]

I think what makes the stock Scattergun so popular is that, ironically, by following that meta you're able to experiment more with your other weapons/unlocks and still see success. It's hard to run Shortstop without pairing it with the Crit-a-Cola for better ranged damage, it's hard to run FaN or Soda Popper without a pistol's spray 'n pray damage to clean up your inevitable botched kills (also doesn't hurt to have some sustainability thanks to their clip sizes), and the BFB begs to be paired with DOT weapons like the Wrap Assassin and Guillotine while making mobility options like the Winger or Atomizer feel nigh useless. All these primary unlocks have obvious synergies and if you ignore them you're bound to struggle more than usual. With the Scattergun, you can run pretty much whatever else you want, get your use out of them, and you'll still have all your bases covered thanks to the SGs reliability. Also it's the only primary with more than 4 shots in the mag and that's a pretty big deal I don't hear brought up enough. Heard it parroted too many times that "the Soda Popper has a faster fire rate and reload, so it's basically just a better stock." while completely glossing over it's 2 shot capacity like it's no issue. Maybe it's just me, but I have seen a lot more Scouts running the other unlocks as of recent. The BFB seems to be especially popular now. Makes sense since it's too much fun (even in it's less than ideal state). Nothing beats a good match on cp_standin with the BFB equipped. they go together like chocolate and peanut butter, I swear.

[@indigomer]

I will say, in my testing the BFB doesn’t *need* the DoT weapons though they do work nicely. You just want a damage dealing secondary in general. I myself prefer the pocket pistol because the faster fire rate feels excellent. Also because to me the biggest downside of the BFB has nothing to do with boost but rather the magazine capacity.

[@CraftyMooMan]

I think Medic's most overrated item is easily the Ubersaw. Yeah, it's 25% uber charge on hit, but the sustainability and versatility of the Amputator outclasses it IMO. You can heal yourself up, heal crowds at a time at the same rate as the stock medi-gun, and you don't have to be in the enemy's face to get value out of it.

[@indigomer]

Amputator is better than I used to think but it’s also very situational. More credit to the medics who like using it.

[@CraftyMooMan]

@@indigomer I gotta agree. It takes the support role to the max, expecially with the Crossbow.

[@Manny4Life948]

No, gaining Uber is better than the medic having to barely give the team any HP with no overheal or Uber gain, and that health regeneration thing while holding it out barely does anything and healing your teammates literally heals you more than holding it out.

[@overlord3481]

Medigun and crossbow outheal the amputator in 99% of situations. Also, crit heals and building Uber. Anputator is only good in 100 player servers where large groups of people assemble at one spot. Amputator is still a gimmick weapon in casual servers, and inferior to ubersaw.

[@Willistheclown]

I think Ubersaw sucks cuz "it gives u uber!"Nah. It's worse for direct combat than stock. The only people you're getting uber off is foolish spies, and those don't exist if they're good at the game.

[@DaveMillerDsafReal]

I completely agree with the gunboats, and the powerjack is not overrated it's exactly good, the only thing making scout an mance and heavy so bad is speed so anything giving you speed is very good

[@indigomer]

@@DaveMillerDsafReal I don’t think s blanket statement like that is all that true. The powerjack is not bad by any means but the speed boost is so small that it doesn’t outclass the other good melee options

[@1coquo622]

The +20 health on kill on top of the speed make the difference​@@indigomer

[@Potato-ei4fd]

The thing with the scattergun is it is the best primary in 90% of situations, that’s why it’s so highly rated. All of them can work, but they force you to play to their strengths whereas the scattergun is versatile and can do just about anything. The others are definitely useful and I’ve had a lot of fun dominating with the back scatter. I think the real overrated weapon scout has is the pretty boys pocket pistol, because I see way too many people who genuinely it’s a tier above every other secondary.

[@indigomer]

This is true. And I did say in other replies, it being the most used in general is not surprising. It’s more to the fact that 80% or more of scouts use just that and nothing else.

[@blooharrison8105]

As a baby faces blaster main i wish scout players gave his other primaries a real chance. I'd even say the BFB is on par with stock in certain situations.

[@indigomer]

I still put it below stock because magazine penalty more than anything

[@HyperStormH]

The way you talked about the Tomislav is such a breath of fresh air. I'm so tired of people being so objective with how they rate weapons. The whole point of how TF2 balances its unlocks is allowing you to form different playstyles and using what you personally like the most. Good vid. I don't agree with all your picks but overall your thoughts were well-explained. Small tangent, but I definitely think the "e-sport-ification" of TF2 (Meet Your Match) contributed to people taking the balance of weapons way too seriously and focusing way too much on winning and topping the scoreboard (as you mentioned in the Scout section). I mainly play TF2 Classic nowaways, but I queued into a Casual 2Fort lobby recently for fun because I just wanted to play around with the Classic rifle for a bit. The amount of bitterness, rage, and sweatiness in the chat was mind-boggling to me. Someone was lambasting my team's Medic for not being "good enough", people all around were raging after getting killed, and in general it all just feels so vitriolic and miserable. Felt like those Skial rage videos to me. There were definitely sweats back in the day before MYM, but holy crap it's just gotten way worse since that.

[@prosto_a_user]

12:32 Correction: ALL THREE damage types, if you have enough Übercharge

[@scumknight6074]

8:12 Baseline yes. Demoknight is braindead if there’s 0 counters and you’re free to get kills as you please. Eyelander is easiest to get kills because the crit guarantees a pick while your speed and hp lets you go freely. However, to have Demoknight work effectively in any team comp is much more difficult and easy to counter against more competent teams. Also if I were to choose an overrated Demoman weapon, it would be the Iron Bomber just because of similar reasons as the Original.

[@indigomer]

I stand by the eyelander to be overrated but it was pointed out to me shortly after upload that the iron bomber would have been a better pick, because it’s so close to stock it might as well be a reskin.

[@applekhi3962]

2:15 YES BFB REPRESENTATION, im serious when I say this you play ground scout like I do the speed boost is so heavenly even if it doesn't last that long, honestly to rebalance it to make it better to just make the loss of boost not as low so you dont lose it easily and even better, let it keep 6 shells

[@indigomer]

@@applekhi3962 biggest draw of the BFB is the magazine penalty. I myself am okay with the damage as it is because you lose boost fast and gain boost fast. I love that thing.

[@applekhi3962]

​@@indigomer (sorry for the hella late reply) I understand but to me I feel like it's too easy to lose ALL of your boost because 25 damage is a threshold that's very easy to get which and it can kill your momentum very easily, therefore I think it's fair to have it require 75 damage to lose all your boost and if you double jump you only use 35% of your boost tho in your other video ik you did mention that you're still the fastest class, that is true but that lost of all your boost can truly be a death sentenced at times

[@indigomer]

@ My experience is the opposite, actually. The biggest thing I try to get across to people is that zero boost is not a big deal at all. Partially because you’re fast enough to be a problem and all it takes is 25 damage to match a stock scout. But I understand why people consider the boost loss to be a bit extreme.

[@applekhi3962]

@@indigomer that's valid but ofc its usually personal preference and experience but we can both agree on one thing.....the loss of 2 shells is arguably a bigger handicap than the constant speed loss, ngl it may be why losing boost so easily is such a frustration to me- cuz constantly having to recently is such a pain especially for longer sustained fights

[@beh256]

With all respect there's difference between overpowered/good and overated. Wrangler is absolutely broken, vac is absolutely broken, piss is absolutely broken and thier so good it makes them boring. NOT overrated. But i the only point i agree had to be minigun it just feels more satisfying to use.

[@kossa_maneka315]

I'm glad i found this video! It definitely was interesting and i agreed with some of your takes ! You definitely earned a sub plus bonus points for the Turbo Dismount OST used :D

[@ZaTrapu]

"attack with more than 1 damage type" Vaccinator: "how about no *stacks a bullet and a blast resistance bubble*"

[@rederic7]

As a semi-Pyro main I agree with the Powerjack pick, the amount of times people seem to completely overlook the Axtinguisher and Back Scratcher just because they want that extra movement speed is crazy, personally I think the three are equal in terms of the slot, the only times I see people not put the Back Scratcher as a good alternative is in competitive mainly due to the existence of Medics and even then it's useful.

[@kailaine3974]

My personal headcannon is that jarate snipers piss themselves irl as well whenever and enemy is closer than half the map away. Adds extra flavor

[@JaxDaGuard]

This video was actually very entertaining, so kudos to that! Honestly I was taken by surprise when I saw you only had 900 subscribers.

[@indigomer]

Unexpectedly when I uploaded this four days ago I had about 690ish. I got an enormous boost, and I have no idea why the algorithm blessed this nothing-sandwich of a video.

[@magoleo-pr7if]

For spy, i am honestly sick of kunai and dead ringer. I see 90% of spy mains use this when it's only good at getting cheap and scummy kills when they disguise as scout for the 123rd time, it would be awesome to see spies actually experiment with loadouts and actually be, you know SPIES, being a menace through stealth instead of tanking several pipes to the face

[@indigomer]

It’s for this reason I advocate for a modernized disguise kit with more acting tools. If half of the spy mains don’t even try fooling people anymore then clearly something is fundamentally wrong with that tool.

[@Manny4Life948]

@@indigomer I mean, there’s nothing you can really do about people shooting each other randomly and killing the spy (unless you gave him a 99 damage resistance, which they will still notice the hit sound)

[@Fr3nchCat]

Yea, I use every spy weapon and I have a very flexible playstyle so I can easily swap between being an aggressive trickstabber and a sneaky disguise acting menace. But out of the two I prefer to be more sneaky cause i find it more fun and rewarding. Especially when I fool the enemy medic with my disguise and stab them after they jump in front of me.

[@widelia2008]

Because fuck the Dead Ringer! Fuck the Dead Ringer! *FUCK THE DEAD RINGER!!!*

[@cantbcryinovadatho]

I honestly use stock or YER with cloak and dagger or stock spy’s kit needs a huge update which will definitely never happen

[@TheADHDGamer420]

3:29 Raw Pit

[@theonlylordtachanka]

So close to 1000 keep it up ❤❤

[@MmmMmph1968]

The Tomislav is the best minigun if you're using a lunchbox item, and since lunchbox items are a key part of Heavy's meta, the Tomislav got confused with the best minigun in general. Heavy's meta in general is so set in stone and has been for years that shotguns have sprung around to being superior if just for the surprise factor.

[@Zal_TWasTaken]

I have to disagree with the scout one I believe that the pbpp is way too overrated, the healing isn’t as crazy as people make it out to be and the winger does more damage which is probably scout’s most underrated weapon

[@indigomer]

To a point I think you’re right, but truth be told I don’t see scouts running that thing nearly as much as mad milk. And I myself prefer the pocket pistol, not for the healing but that fire rate just feels better.

[@GDsanson99]

Hey, nice vid! I just have something to say about the Kunai I think that trickstabs aren’t that important when using the kunai, the kunai is more focused on keeping you alive so that (if you use it well) you can have lots of kills and also survive! I feel that the kunai is better at chainstabs than trickstabs, if you want to make trickstabs use the big earner. So you can do a more passive gameplay getting some kills, heal up, hide, and repeat. I’m also bad at trickstabs, but I still use the kunai because of the chainstabs But yeah, in conclusion, in my opinion you can still use the kunai as a passive weapon, I also understand that the revolver is a really good weapon but is like the engineer’s pistol, just take it out in case you fail. Pd: sorry if I have some orthography problems, English is not my main language :(

[@indigomer]

@GDsanson99 your English looks perfectly good to me, I’m impressed. I’m more of a stock knife person myself. For me it’s either that or spycicle if it’s necessary. Also I did say revolver but I myself am an Ambassador user.

[@nehpets17]

one thing to mention is that 5/9 weapons are hard meta in Sixes or Highlander or both and some people don't like to bother with weapons that are banned in the main format that they play

[@indigomer]

I mean I can see that being semi-relevant but I’m pretty confident in saying most people don’t play competitive leagues where certain items are banned from use.

[@ryanphillips4123]

The backscatter is my favorite scout weapon. Seeing that “mini-crit!” Pop up every few hits keeps the dopamine flowing 🤤

[@reiyo2644]

Ngl, the only reasons for scouts not using other weapons, other than soda popper, is that they are straight up inferior. BFB makes the classes that counter you the most, counter you even more. Backscatters inaccuracy makes you do nothing on mid range, FaN is near unusable thanks to knockback outside of meming around. Scattergun is simply better and more forgiving. The only unlock that beats scattergun is Soda popper, that weapon is a straight up direct upgrade, but it requires good aim, and punishes you way more harshly than stock, so nobody goes for it as well.

[@indigomer]

I think you missed my point with that segment. The other unlocks are not upgrades, but the difference between all of them is nowhere near as great as people make them out to be. Soda popper and short stop are so close one could argue they’re comparable. FaN and BFB are a bit lower but if you actually learn the nuances of how to use them, you can team wipe with those. I know this, because I use and love both of them. My only Hale’s Own is the Force a Nature, and my BFB is about 4 and a half thousand. Back scatter isn’t used much because the gameplay isn’t any different or more interesting than stock, and it’s worse because of the magazine size. But in the ideal situations with stock, you’re still set up for success with it. I have seen a couple top scoring scouts who were hipsters and using the back scatter. All of scout’s primaries are great in their own rights. Scattergun is king, but the rest are *not* far behind. Unlike what the community leads you to believe.

[@Axolotllord333]

Whenever I have the rare occasion of playing spy I only disguise if I need to kill a sentury nest because I don't really have My time where I use the disguise I also normally have the spycical

[@aanproduction1516]

Degreaser is the most overrated option on Pyro. It's useful, but 30% switch is not that big in reality and the cost of having much less afterburn damage to rely on makes using shotguns with it completely pointless. But I've seen so many people thinking it's better than stock just because it switches faster. Like, sure, it's not like Pyro has any other was of fighting other than combos.... .

[@indigomer]

@@aanproduction1516 that would have been an acceptable answer too, though I think the switch speed difference does actually have some purpose depending on the playstyle.

[@Dryfloorsign]

honestly, that 30% really comes in handy on multiple situations. but granted thats because i overuse flares and axes and particle manipulation is hard.

[@aanproduction1516]

@@indigomer well, yeah, it it a positive difference, but some people over exaggerate how impactful this difference really is.

[@TheRedzMann]

I'll be real, I think your argument for demo knight is fair, but only applies to CTF or games that don't have an end timer, because there is a lot more counter to demo knight then just pyro or engineer, examples? A soldier rocket jumping away, a scout dodging a demo knights melee (even with 5 heads, its not hard), medic just ubersawing... anyway, sniper jarate bushwacka, heavy.. well heavy, pyro obviously airblast, engineer minisentry or sentry base, spy? Trickstab or get screwed idk, and demo himself just use the half zatoichi. And obviously player skill is 100% needed for consideration ofc. This is also going under the assumption that the entire enemy team is just stupid, which 9/10 time's out of 10 isn't the case? Sadly anyway, The reason why demo knight is good on a fair few CTF maps at least is because of close quarters, that's.. frankly it Demo Knight THRIVES in close quarters combat, plane and simple. Do I think it's overrated? Probably but for specifically demo as a whole I'd argue the iron bomber is more overrated, similarly to how you describe the Original ironically

[@TheRedzMann]

Anyway, great video Indi, just thought I'd throw my opinion out there too!

[@indigomer]

@@TheRedzMann Yeah in hindsight the iron bomber probably would have been a better choice, but a big streak for eyelander is still easy to get even against everything you said. Mostly because when stuff gets dangerous, a full headed demoknight can just run away. Being faster than everyone except a baby face scout, having a max health of 235, 50% blast resistance and 30% fire resistance, you can reliably escape all but a couple remedies. Even if the streak builds very slowly because you have to keep running in and back out, it’s still very easy to do because almost no one is going to be able to actually kill you, they can only make you fuck off for a short while as you go recharge. But the iron bomber would have been better because it’s literally stock. Like the difference almost doesn’t exist.

[@TheRedzMann]

@@indigomer Trust me, from experience it is not as easy to even get to the 5 streak, like if you get there then yes.. it is easier to play a melee class but at the same time, it's not hard to kill a demo knight at the same time. Because yes +Speed-MeleeClass is really good and with enough skill you can easily live for a while, but I rarely even see that in game, let alone do it myself am I just unlucky or bad? Probably but tbf going off how you describe it sometimes I should be getting it 70% of the time lol Either way glad we agree on the Iron bomber lmao

[@indigomer]

@ oh that is something I neglected to bring up, the first 5 is not quite as easy because you don’t have the speed or health to run away from all your problems. So the first 5 is about the same as most other play styles. But once you’re beyond that threshold it stops being difficult.

[@Daihuu]

I don't even play tf2 anymore but I am very happy I have another tf2 youtuber to watch vids from.

[@HyperMotionDX]

Big crossbow had spread so far it didn't even make the list

[@TrixterTheFemboy]

I agree with literally all of these, except the sound effect of the Tomislav. The thoom-thoom-thoom-thoom-thoom is weirdly satisfying to me

[@indigomer]

I think it would sound better to me if it was a bit bassier, then it would sound like a real autocannon.

[@TrixterTheFemboy]

@@indigomer Yeah, fair enough

[@alex8808]

12:37 you can actually have multiple damage types for the Uber just so you know

[@Salvador_but_he_plays_gd]

8:28 Heavy is my most played class (I cant say I main him tho, i play spy just as much) And imma be honest, I don't like the Tomislav, the slower firing speed doesn't feel like 20%, it feels more like 50 - 60% which makes the weapon feel way more punishing than almost any other minigun except the heater, the heater feels way too punishing. Imo Heavy's best to worst Miniguns are Stock/Iron Curtain Brass Beast Tomislav and Heater My go to is either Iron Curtain or Brass Beast (Im not ranking the Natasha, that gun is just unfair to fight)

[@fireblast133]

a lot of the time the stock purists are in denial. Yes, stock is often the all rounder option, the one good in all situations. The unlocks trade strength in one area for it in another.

[@leepik28]

10:33 as engineer main i literaly like no joke did a prowler meme here XDD

[@wooperO0]

this is like watching a soundsmith video made by great blue, i fw it.

[@indigomer]

@@wooperO0 a weird number of people think I sound like Blue, I’ve also been told I sound like Dane which makes no sense to me.

[@wooperO0]

@@indigomer i do see the similarities to your voice sounding like Blue, but i think honestly its more of the format and style of jokes that kinda reflect it and bring more of a similarity then just voice lol

[@indigomer]

@ In all fairness, Blue is a bit more PG than I am

[@twpsyn]

scattergun is the best general option for high sustain damage and great burst but soda popper is just straight up better, there's a reason it's the only scout primary banned in 6s. it has insane burst damage and doesn't push your target away like FaN does, and the hype makes you unkillable if you have good movement and air strafes. loch-n-load being considered underrated is p funny considering in most scenarios it's just straight up better than stock/iron bomber vaccinator is awful in pubs because there isn't coordination. forcing focus fire from multiple damage types to counter it is why people hate it, in most pubs there are 1-2 players at the top of the scoreboard that are dominating, the middle of the pack are just there and the bottom of the scoreboard are people that are either new or just goofing around. this means you can hard counter the few good players who are usually either a sniper/heavy/scout or a soldier/demo, you only need 2 dmg resist types at most. you can even pop both types at once on a single heal target. not to mention the build rate is so high you can never really be caught out without at least one charge, making it brainless to play with but requiring far more effort to counter idk how you can say jarate is overrated, it literally wins teamfights if you throw it on a control point being fought over. it's boring to use sure, but it's broken in how strong it is and that's why people dislike it's effectiveness. if it was only able to mark one player max then sure it might be overrated since it's only usefulness would be countering a spy or scout up close, but that's not why people say it's sniper's best secondary

[@potatoweaver4116]

I agree with almost everything you said but the Soda Popper isn't banned because it has better burst damage. It's banned because salty Soldier mains don't want to deal with the hype. However it would be a limited pick at best if it was unbanned because Scouts that stick with the Scattergun will have a big advantage against other Scouts using the Soda Popper. If you put both Scouts right next to each other in a testing chamber, then yeah the Soda Popper Scout will win, but in a real game you're not going to be constantly getting 2 point-blank meat shots, and the Scattergun might as well have a bottomless clip compared to the Soda Popper. The Vaccinator is ridiculous in pubs, the vaccinator is basically a litmus test to see how good a player is. New players and middle of the pack players will typically have a more favorable view on the weapon compared to more advanced players who almost universally have a very negative opinion on it when it's used in pubs specifically. I know b4nny and almost all invite level players hate the weapon for example. I do think the Loch-N-Load is a little underrated, it seems most people consider it trash when it can be better than stock/Iron Bomber is a lot of scenarios, I also agree that Jarate is broken good.

[@TheTrueMuffinGhost]

@@twpsyn the jarate is literally a free buff banner charge every 20 seconds

[@twpsyn]

@@potatoweaver4116 out of interest how much comp experience do you have to just brush it off as "salty soldier mains" instead of like, everyone in 6s including scout mains saying please do not unban soda popper because it makes scout better lol

[@indigomer]

Opinions from sixes players should be considered but only lightly. They play a version of the game that is drastically different from the Tf2 most people experience.

[@twpsyn]

@@indigomer imo it's not that different, it's not like 4v4 passtime vs regular pubs. they play on the same maps with the same gamemodes with 25/160 items banned and class limit 2 (1 on powerful classes). there you see why loch n load is a straight upgrade in most cases even in a gamemode without a permanent engi just because of what good demos can do with the projectile speed, and in NR 6s soda popper is insane. dynam's video on the soda popper is a pretty good rundown of it from a pub and comp player that also features itjazzy who mains the soda popper and is utterly insane with it

[@niviera7807]

I'm not taking it seriously and know that you didn't play that much Heavy and Pyro but it really shows, once you equip Tomislav or Powerjack they really make you feel how slow you are without them.

[@shiro_says894]

As a former comp engineer player I must agree with the rescue ranger and wrangler, when ever I used it in casual even defense it just wasn't that fun because of how powerful it is.

[@sparky00777]

Back when the Rescue Ranger didn't use metal and the Wrangler didn't reduce healing 🚬🚬

[@roktman]

Very well put together video, found myself actually agreeing with most of what you said which is quite rare with tf2 content creators. Keep it up!

[@tmkschmidt2402]

9:40 Youre not alone, I think the same thing

[@carpet163]

I use the Tomislav for greater range and the ability to flank as heavy. No rev sound is such a huge upside when surprising enemies.

[@potato_enjoyer5544]

I accidentally switched the meaning of overrated and underrated and was like: “Wtf, how is kunai underrated?” Then I re-read the title and was like: “Oohhh…”

[@GamerGridStudios.-vq4hp]

(Im new to TF2) Personally for Heavy I use the brass beast, because it just feels better for me. Plus, the Silent Killer stat from the Tomislav doesn't help all that much when you're pushing or defending besides that one surprise kill that happens once every 20 matches. At least that's my opinion. Might just be a skill issue idk, I'm an Engi main anyway :/ (im trying out other classes from time to time tho)

[@indigomer]

@GamerGridStudios.-vq4hp Brass beast isn’t the best minigun but it is hella fun. Wear that thing out, and don’t let anybody tell you it’s inadequate.

[@GamerGridStudios.-vq4hp]

​ @indigomer The funny thing is, the brass beast is good, since everyone cares about the Tomislav, they often don't pay attention to an brass beast Heavy when there's other enemies. Like, I killed a Demo, Soldier, and Overhealed Tomislav Heavy on Turbine in like a minute when they were rushing us. The brass beast isn't bad, it just makes Heavy even more of a specialist. Plus, it's funny how Heavy's react to a Brass Beast Heavy, they don't shoot for like 2secs wich always garanties their death and it's funny as hell. XD

[@emirwattabor6991]

I 100% agree with you, with some additional points; 1. The Scattergun is reliable but the Soda Popper is easily at least the second best, if not on par with stock. It requires a different playstyle to a more standard Scout and very precise aim to do well, which I imagine is why most players prefer the Scattergun. Also, it just feels less satisfying than stock to be honest. Stock has that satisfying click on the reload and a more generally appealing design overall, kinda like your Tomislav versus Minigun comparison. 2. FINALLY someone addresses the Gunboat Garry's in the room. I understand that it's ridiculously flexible and opens up a lot of expressive plays, but I've managed to create my own Soldier loadouts that do the same in their own unique way, leaning into Soldier's role as a self-sufficient frontliner and taking on the oft-forgotten role as the uncontested deathmatch king. The addition of a shotgun allows a Soldier to easily gain the upper hand in situations where he'd otherwise be forced to retreat and doubles his damage potential. I understand why he takes on a more specialized role in competitive, and why people enjoy a playstyle oriented around flanking and outpositioning the opponent, but in the chaotic and unpredictable environment of a pub, the shotgun is an incredibly reliable supplement to the rocket launcher that mitigates its most glaring weaknesses and important to keep in the back of your mind, and not only when a competent Pyro joins the enemy team. 3. 100% agree. The Axtinguisher and Backscratcher deserve far more praise than they get, enabling massive bursty plays or a self-sufficient playstyle oriented around flank rotations. The Powerjack feels like a nice middle ground between these two options with the benefit of rollout speed, but its downside is definitely there, particularly when Snipers are involved. 4. The Eyelander is nice for snowballing, especially if you aren't particularly good at charge manipulation or melee combat in the first place. It's a good crutch for players who are frankly terrible at Demoknight by letting them farm a few heads off of newb Spies and proceed to play like a less effective but tankier Spy or Scout. The problem with this strategy is that it discourages prioritizing high-value targets like Medics, since that would risk losing all of your heads assuming they're competent and relatively well-defended. It encourages you to focus on easy targets - mostly useless enemy players whose absence barely provides an advantage to your team. As far as Demoman melees go, I'm on the side of Solarlight that all the options are valid, but the most consistent has to be the Half-Zatoichi. The raw health value it gains you on each kill lets you snowball at least as well as an Eyelander while enabling highly aggressive or even nearly suicidal plays. That said, I like the Eyelander because it looks fucking badass and has a unique and interesting mechanic attached to it that the Valve devs clearly put a lot of love into. The way the sword whispers to you for heads or the way your eye begins to glow as you gain more power is just pure AWESOME factor. Also the funny thing where you swap to stickies after getting 4 heads to become a faster and harder to kill demoman and stomp a server :P I think people let the awesome factor and iconic nature of the Eyelander somewhat skew their opinions on other Demoman swords when, if you're trying to play Demoknight in a way that gives your team an advantage, other options may be better suited to a particular game state or are just plainly more fun to use, allowing you to chain kills straight out of spawn instead of needing time to ramp up to full effectiveness. 5. Fair enough. I'm a Tomislav main myself, but that's because it better matches my particular playstyle of Heavy with an emphasis on flexibility and self-sufficiency. 6. Thank GOD, another player who also despises using the Wrangler. I know a lot of Engineer players swear by it for a reason, it provides a lot of value, but I think people forget just how strong the pistol can be. In all my testing, the TTK against a target being focused by both a sentry gun and a pistol is faster than that of someone being focused by the Wrangler outside of the farthest edges of the Sentry's range where the Wrangler's lack of spread starts to become a meaningful advantage, and that's because the Wrangler actually provides a much smaller boost to fire rate than people assume; it's nowhere near DOUBLE the Sentry's fire rate, at most around 50% when used on a mini-sentry, the lowest damage version of the Sentry Gun. If you're building exclusively for maximizing damage, the Pistol is simply the obvious choice. It's the most damaging Engineer secondary with the added benefit of being completely separate from your Sentry Gun, allowing you to fire from two different angles instead of one. The advantage of the Wrangler is obviously as a utility item; being able to expand your Sentry's range, increase its already immense knockback, and most importantly triple its effective health are the reasons you run it when assuming a traditional defensive support role for the Engineer, but the Pistol is more than deserving of a seat at the table when it comes to alternative playstyles, particularly ones that want to trade defensive utility for offensive power. 7. A little known counter to the Vaccinator is Pyro, particularly the Phlogistinator. This is because of a change during Jungle Inferno (or was it Gun Mettle?) where the afterburn caused by a Flamethrower reduces the effectiveness of a Vaccinator bubble by a significant amount, including its protection from critical hits. While the resistance still exists, a Vax medic expecting a fire bubble to save him from a Phlog uber will be proven wrong in a shockingly short order due to this effect, the combination of crits and resistance reduction giving it roughly a similar TTK to that of a stock flamethrower against a defenseless Medic. Also just playing a defensive Engineer seems to do the trick since it's pretty rare a Vaccinator combo can actually get the momentum needed to take out a gun that's being actively tanked. 8. The piss jar is honestly overpowered. It has a similar effect to the Buff Banner for next to no risk or opportunity cost and enables the unreliable if somewhat unfair option of a guaranteed crit with the Bushwacka. I do really like the way the SMGs synergize with the Sniper Rifle, though, so I tend to use them instead. 9. The Kunai is 100% an annoying weapon to counter sometimes, especially since it feeds off of your teammates' lack of awareness in a similar fashion to a snowballing Demoknight build, but with less reliable methods to shut him down besides the one class in the game that can deny a backstab with nearly perfect consistency within a pretty sizeable radius, the babysitt- I mean the Pyro. Even then, Heaven Forbid the cocky bastard doesn't bring the Diamondback and two tap you with a tenth of his stored crits that he can farm dozens of by the end of a round due to your clueless Engineer. But, as you say, Spy isn't entirely oriented around backstabs, and while enabling a well-timed stab to be a get out of jail free card can be powerful, it also assumes you can reliably get a backstab when you need it, which isn't always true. Good use of Cloak is already a pretty effective getaway for Spy, even against enemy Pyros due to the halved debuff duration; clever enough evasive movement can get you out of almost any sticky situation, to the extent that the number of situations where the Kunai can provide value isn't necessarily enough to make up for the times you get oneshot before you can even make it to a juicy back.

[@indigomer]

@@emirwattabor6991 I should specify, I don’t dislike the gunboats. I love using them myself. I put them on the list mostly because the majority of players who use them treat them like it’s the only secondary worth even considering. It’s like that guy who eats the same exact thing for lunch every day and refuses to try anything else. I’m the polar opposite, not a single class I play regularly has only one loadout that I use. Most of them I use all four slots. Variety and unique weapon design is one of the big reasons Tf2 is so great, so it makes no sense to me why people pick *one* lane and stick to it.

[@TheTdw2000]

7:21 That's why GabeN invented Natascha.

[@indigomer]

I myself prefer to use the BFB to counter demoknights because I’m the only person fast enough to chase him when he runs

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

It's really fun to nail people to the wall with the Rescue Rangers projectile, though.

[@HaroldIsHere]

I feel like some people got their panties in a wad over someone disagreeing with them...

[@indigomer]

@@HaroldIsHere you can scroll down and see just that for some people.

[@tappajaav]

I wouldn't call vaccinator overpowered. If anything, I think it's a very well balanced weapon. That being said, it's also extremely annoying to fight against. In a pub environment lot of the time you're fighting the vacc combo alone, and both the 10% resistance and the actual vaccinator ubers make those two players almost unkillable. Most classes are incapable of dealing multi-style damage outside melee, and many that could will regularly exchange that ability for something else. Like being singled out by the enemy team in a sport, or a videogame - while your team goes unpunished. You win the game(because they don't have ubers/kritzes), but they ruin your fun in the progress. Also it's possible to swap your primary&secondary weapon and still retain the heads as a demoknight, as long as the target loadout has the eyelander equipped. So if you're good enough you can take some heads, visit spawn room, and become fast and tanky demoman.

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

12:29 The reason why people dislike this so much is because this requires team coordination in a game almost entirely designed around players mostly working around their own selfish agendas, and teamwork mostly being emergent. Most people log onto this game to just play their favorite class and getting frags or a killstreak, and for most of TF2, that's perfectly fine as long as you're not stacking more than two spies. The vaccinator punishes the enemy team for having that kind of individualized playstyle, and that's not what most people find fun about TF2. The other strategy for dealing with the Vaccinator is going for melee hits, and for most players, that means switching to Spy or Demoknight. Problem is that weapons that force the enemy to switch classes in order to beat also fuck with the game's design philosophy, as it means switching off the class that's your favorite and that you want to play. Aside from not stacking Spy and making sure your team has a Medic, TF2 mostly tries to avoid forcing players into those kinds of choices, and Valve's said that directly. It's not OP, people just don't find the counterplay fun cause it turns the game into Overwatch.

[@TheGuywithacomedicallylonguser]

Hey, I saw that guy in a landfall server. Cool video.

[@indigomer]

Landfall best map

[@TheGuywithacomedicallylonguser]

@@indigomer Yep, its certainly much better than 2 fort

[@BeBruh2912]

If you didn’t know, the Vaccinator can apply ALL THREE damage type Ubers simultaneously. And with how quickly they build up, you practically have the stock medigun.

[@BlueGibbus]

In my opinion, degreaser’panicattack’powerjack pyro is the new meta after lazypurple talked about his loadout in the how it feels to play pyro

[@elito7023]

For medic, I'd say the Ubersaw is more overrated than the Vac. Sure, 25% uber instantly is powerful, but as a medic you have no reason to be taking melee fights unless you're out of position. Ubersaws supposedly dealing random crits more often is probably the most egregious case of confirmation bias in the game as well

[@indigomer]

I can’t speak all that confidently because medic is my least played, but my interpretation for ubersaw is it’s boring and situational but the alternatives are either more situational or worse versions of the ubersaw. The closest alternative is the amputator, would be awesome if it weren’t so limited to choke points. But you can take that as you will, when I play medic it’s usually because the team needs one so I just run the meta of crossbow/stock/ubersaw. And ubersaw isn’t used by “press w and hope for the best,” it’s more useful when “hey this guy is close and focusing on my pocket, I’ll run and grab a quick hit.”

[@gingerpirate3624]

Heavy main here. Tomislav is better, but the kill times of the mini guns are consistently under a second. I use the mini gun because the model, especially the australium, looks better than the wimpy Tomislav. And in a serious setting as heavy the thing that matters most is not getting caught reved down. The slight rev speed increase doesn't save you, if you're caught panic-revving then you messed up and you should lose that fight. Tomislav wins most heavy 1v1s, but how often do you have a heavy 1v1. You should be holding a position, and if you are, you will beat the heavy that is pushing up to that position. Mini gun isn't a factor there.

[@Willistheclown]

Most overrated for Engie is Jag. It's good on offense, but not a direct upgrade as everyone says.

[@certifiedicecreamtruckmoment]

On the scout one i'd go as far as saying the Soda Popper is Better than the Stock

[@indigomer]

@@certifiedicecreamtruckmoment situationally I can see that, but I myself really don’t care for it. It’s good but for me at least it fills the same role as stock while having a smaller magazine capacity so it’s just not for me.

[@Manny4Life948]

Stock still better for just wanting to enjoy the game and not wanting to put 3000 hours on learning how to use a double barrel shotgun

[@thisbox]

As a whole, I'm mainly going to speak on behalf of the weapons that could be improved upon in terms of thoughts Powerjack - While I can get behind why you see it as overrated, genuinely it does start to stack up. 15% (going from 100% to 115%) doesn't really sound like much - and if you're not the most aggressive player, sure, it won't feel like much. But in terms of making the distance, going from Engineer Speed to Medic+ (8% more) Speed can get you much closer to the battle than most other Pyros. With that being said, I would choose the Scorch Shot in this position. Not that it's bad, it's definitely good - point being, like the Stock Scattergun, most other options on Pyro's Secondary not only can be relatively viable, but also comparably more interesting. Whether it be flare punching, additional mobility from the Detonator or Thruster, or being useless with the Gas Passer, and pretending the Neon pairing makes it good. Engineer - Realistically, I don't think there is one overrated option for Engineer. The way you presented the two didn't really seem like you had anything, and just wanted an excuse to rant about the duo of hell - which I can understand. Vaccinator - Yes, it's not the Medigun that is pushing the enemy back - but it's not the most reliable thing to counter. Yes, if the Medic is in the middle of the battlefield, you can go send a Scout, Demo, and Pyro, and he'll be dead. But if he decides to play defensively - say behind a Sentry that would make Pyro ineffective against - good luck trying to kill the guy whose currently being near-immortal, blocks your crits, and continues to farm away on the same two Spies over and over. The only thing I can really call overrated in regards to a replacement is maybe the Ubersaw - with how the Solemn Vow can debatably be a decently viable alternative. With that being said, it's hard to call one or the other more overrated.

[@capy684]

uhhh... I don't know if you perfectly calculated your opinions or something but I agree with practically every single one you mentioned. you must be the chosen one, it's the first time something like this happends to me lol

[@Manny4Life948]

Time to make an extremely long comment to express my opinion on all your opinions! (I got nothing else better to do) 1. scattergun Now the idea of saying the stock scattergun is overrated without your context immediately leads to people saying a big fat no, but I think you’re not wrong (I think it’s a problem with most of Scouts primaries being below average or being rather inconsistent with its damage output then the the stock gun) options like the soda popper, force a nature, and the shortstop can make entire new fun place styles for Scout, but but they can’t really beat the consistency of stock and most people that have spent hours in mastering stock probably don’t want to switch off the weapon (rest in peace Baby face blaster, perhaps we treated you too harshly) 2. gunboats While I do think this weapon is overrated in some aspects, the concept of saying it is overrated due to your preferences entirely is a little close minded if you ask me, since I have legitimately heard people say that the stock shotgun is one of the worst weapon in the game (it’s one of the best and I will hunt that person down eventually) the gunboats are pretty good and allow soldiers to express their full potential with the rocket launcher while giving up a reliable shotgun or a team supporting banner, but I’m not gonna disagree in the fact that most sweats and pub stompers that have not breathed in oxygen in about 10 months to 10 years (I say this is a OK pick) 3. Powerjack I don’t care what you say, *I CAN’T* live without the powerjack! (I can’t use any other Pyro Melee unless I’m using another weapon that gives you more mobility the detonator or Thermo thruster, because I will crash out from how slow I’m going) and like how the uncle of the Danes once said “speed is better than health”, and if he says that then it has to be true (I think) anyway I understand, thinking it’s a little overrated since from the outside view it does seem like unnecessary speed, but that speed is the only thing keeping my marriage together so I want you to keep quiet OK? 4. Eyelander Ohhhhh I think you forgot the word that this video was based on, this is more a tirade on people using it to get a kill streak on the innocent f2ps (I get that it’s annoying but I expected a well thought out argument on why the other swords can be superior to it And how people glaze this one in particular due to all the funny stuff you get per head, but I guess we’re saying a weapon is overrated for something out of its control, A soldier with good aim could probably get a 20 kill streak with a direct hit on 2fort and so would a phlog Pyro, if you’re gonna make an argument for why it’s overrated, come up with a proper one) 5. funny Tommy gun This weapon suffers from repetitiveness, what do I mean? Well you see: heavy has the minigun, the minigun with a slightly tighter spread, the minigun with fire, the minigun with awful game design (stuns in an FPS), and the minigun that does more damage (golly G I wonder why people don’t like playing heavy?) the Tommy gun suffers from being way too similar to stock (not like that’s a bad thing since it could be a fun black box comparison like weapon, but they’re so similar that I feel nothing using either of them, the downside of the Tommy gun is so small that it doesn’t even matter and it feels like you’re just using stock, unlike the black box which almost entirely changes the game plan of the soldier due to having one less rocket but giving him more sustain) TL.DR: heavy has a minigun that is slightly different from stock that most heavies like to use due to being like 2% better or something (it’s like the iron bomber, but you can barely feel the difference) 6. Rescue Ranger The rescue ranger is balanced, but it suffers the same problem like the phlog, that a second weapon can be used to combo with it that makes it absolutely busted (god, I hate the scorch shot, but I can’t really say I have been encountering the Wrangler enough to say I hate it), I think the rescue ranger is definitely overrated in the sense that it’s completely bloated up due to the s(in)ynergy it has with the wrangler, but saying it’s not fun to use is a little bit of a lie, since the rush of keeping your sentry alive by the skin of its teeth by using this weapon can kinda compare to being a funny battle engineer (and you get the being hated by the enemy team just like being a gunslinger engineer too!) 7. Vaccinator ….. so have you ever heard of Uber switching? (The medic scrolls so fast that he can put multiple Ubers on the same target allowing him to become a temporary God + dozens of crossbow arrows in his back so the damage that does seep in is almost completely absorbed, and now the weapon is broken) not to mention it allows you to capture the point while you’re Uber + you gain Uber extremely fast allowing you to Uber charge your teammate far more quickly + you don’t even have to stay connected to your healed target for the Uber to stay on them (also I’m pretty sure you’re just bad with it, that mostly explains why you can’t see it for yourself) I don’t know about you but the funny medic uncle dane wannabe literally says that it’s overpowered, which I think goes to show that even the medics using it think it’s overpowered. 8. Jarate It just sounds like you don’t like the weapon, not that it’s overrated or anything (I can’t even fully say it’s overrated since getting free crits on target and being able to douse any enemy with minicrits from the back line while they can’t do anything about it is kinda op) And plus it’s pretty funny to throw urine on your enemies, so your adjectively wrong 9. Kunai Can you actually try? I know it’s your opinion, but you’re using these such a broad labels as like the most “overrated” yet it’s just a weapon you don’t enjoy using, while I do think this knife is a little overrated, it suffers like the rescue ranger and phlog that you can slap the dead ringer on it and now you get a free speed boost and it’s just farming health off of your teammates for trick stabs and it just goes on and on and on, all I think the weapon needs is a slight tuning on how much health you get from repetitive stabs and just completely reworked the dead ringer because it’s not a good designed weapon (also I like being a sneaky conniving Frenchman as well, but I’m not gonna say this weapon is overrated just because of that) So overall, I think your video was all right, you strayed from the path of the righteousness and a little to close to the -phlog- sun with some of these being unjustly called overrated, but I guess this video is aight (see you later random stranger.)

[@menacingpyro2005]

Me personally I think the powerjack is overrated too. The damage vulnerability isn’t worth going barely faster when holding it. The axtinguisher on the other hand is underrated, I use it a lot for combos and terrorizing light classes because of how easy it is to combo into a melee. Especially hard scoping snipers, Demoknights, and cocky melee scouts.

[@TheTrueMuffinGhost]

In my opinion the only times I notice the damage vulnerability is against heavys and sentrys

[@menacingpyro2005]

@ I always notice it bc snipers can quickscope and kill you even at full with it even normally you would be left with 25 hp

[@TheProtagonistGabber]

I fully agree with you about weapon feel being the most important. The Reserve Shooter particularly is a hard sell for me because of the horrible firing sound, meanwhile my favorite scattergun is the Back Scatter because it looks cool and has the most satisfyingly heavy firing sound. The Huo-Long Heater is my favorite minigun for the same reasons. It looks sick and sounds dope as fuark.

[@cubanwargaming4879]

I wholeheartedly disagree with both the heavy and medic picks. Firstly, tomislav isnt anywhere near as fanatically worshiped as the sandwich, and secondly, the crossbow/ubersaw hold that same situation as the sandwich on medic.

[@zakaryloreto6526]

Vaccinator hate comes from low populated servers and Arena mode, for the five arena players we hate it

[@ghevf830]

Med main here. "I hear so many people complain about the vaccinator like it's the most broken item in Medic's kit, and I hate to break it to you-not even close." True, that honour goes to the crossbow because it's viable in all situations. "The vaccinator can enable an Uber for one damage type at a time. So the solution is to attack it with more than one damage type." No, you can use multiple types leaving a combo soldier/pyro to the same crit melee praying as everyone else. "If you're fighting with a team like you should be, then it's not difficult to just prod with multiple damage types." Fair but why should a single weapon lock everyone into playing optimally? "Even if you're fighting alone, if one is giving you a hard time, you can switch to Soldier or Pyro so you have two damage types on your person." Why should one weapon have the ability to turn off my interaction to another player? "Allow me to remind you of the insane power of stock UberCharge or even the Kritzkrieg. In the right circumstances, you see team wipes with those mediguns somewhat regularly, and never once in my life have I seen a vaccinator medic carry a push on his own." Yes but would you like me to tell you how many Ubers/Kritz I've nulled due to the vaccinator? "In some situations it's annoying, just like anything else. I mean, you can't really have something be perfectly balanced in every situation-that's impossible." That's the point of side grades to be stronger in SPECIFIC circumstances. The vaccinator is very annoying in a majority of situations. "For being so 'overpowered' and in need of a nerf, it's a very exploitable medigun." Fair enough but it is still too strong in pubs with random players who may or may not know how to properly exploit it. "People who cry out to the heavens begging for a nerf on this thing? I cannot see your logic." Their logic is that it limits fun more than any other weapon. Ya like running a banner? Too bad the enemy medic is using vacc. Like flare punches? That's an ez 6-18 seconds of building to turn that fun combo off. Hit a nice quickscope just before you died? Eh, he was on bullet res so he's still standing.

[@kolja783]

Fun video idea, here's my ramble Scout scatter has it's merit, I'd definitely say pistol/pocket pistol is overrated because his other secondaries are pretty amazing but rarely used even though stock scatter has enough dmg already. I've never heard discourse on it but I definitely see gunboats the least of any soldier secondary (except bison) so I don't think that's right. It is fairly underpowered though, it allows a soldier to solo lurk to health and ammo easy but the lack of a secondary makes his duels and bombs lackluster. Usually a good idea is treating the market garden as a secondary to make up for the lost damage. I think the escape plan and battalions are a little overrated based on discourse and use. Powerjack utility is OP and a CQC class doesn't need an effective melee anyway. It's not overrated just the best option. I think the flareguns are a bit overrated but they're still solid. I think Dragon's fury is ass but some people (not everyone) swear by it so maybe that idk. Demo, tru. Heavy, tru but stock isn't the only other minigun they're all solid. Maybe sandvich overrated too. Maybe GRU since heavy has some sleeper melees but everyone swears by GRU. Engie I'd say wrangler. Medic vax, it's really not that threatening it just stomps uncoordinated teams and annoys the shit out of solo bombers. Sniper true but jarate crit melee combo, his other secondaries are good and his kukri has 100% crit chance anyway. Kunai is overrated but it's because it's badly designed, it stomps bad players and punishes good players for having bad teammates. In that sense it's not overrated. In balanced coordinated matches I'm pretty sure stock and big earner are the only realistic options. Cool vid👍🏿

[@ginam5497]

Dragons fury has the best dps, best sentry busting, and is sort of the best offensive pyro weapon, a air blast cool down is harsh and you should not get increased cool down on a reflect, but it is still there, unlike the phlog, and it is the most reliable anti pyro flamethrower, tarnished crown but still a crown, The phlog is by far the most overrated, "the only team your stomping without air blast is a team your stomping anyway" :50+ people. Basically the main drawback of the dragons fury is longer air blast cooldown, your fire is now direct hit rockets, and you need to aim, which is a fair trade.

[@Manny4Life948]

There’s no way Homie just said the wrangler and dragons fury is overrated 💀💀

[@CuddlyTheMadElite]

Disagree with the Vaccinator being here because it's "not broken". The only classes that can damage a pocket or the medic with different damage types (other than Melee) are Soldier, Pyro, and Engineer, all of whom need to have the correct loadout. Using Banners or Flares? Your opponent is practically immortal. Using Gunslinger? Also practically immortal. Even in say a 2v2 scenario you might find yourself in of Medic + Pocket vs you and a teammate, it's very easy to get around multiple damage types, if you even need to do so. Remember, 5 out of the 9 classes only have bullet + melee, only 2 have explosives with 1 being only explosives, and only 1 class has fire they can consistently produce. You can leave the damage resistance on Bullet for most of the time, be practically invincible to bullets, then occasionally swap to explosive and fire when you need to. Only threat to you are spies and Demoknights.

[@maximized_1]

taking a shot everytime you say "don't get me wrong" wish me luck

[@indigomer]

@maximized_1 what’s filling your shot glass, cause if it isn’t whole milk then we can’t be friends.

[@maximized_1]

liquid

[@indigomer]

@ liquid nitrogen, I see. Bold choice.

[@CoyoteMao]

True. Eyelander Demoknights and Kunai/Deadringer Spies in pub matches often leave the second someone who knows how to counter them walks on stage, lol.

[@crowbargaming9118]

Feel like we need this thank you

[@gunthereinritterdesheilige8436]

you are 100% correct with your tomislav claim: performs basically the same as stock, just sounds worse

[@maciejkosiela3577]

13:10 lack of strong uber is one of two things that make Vaccinator merely an annoying gimmick, the other being effective lack of overheal.

[@SurfbyShootin]

BF Blaster is nuts with bleed loadout.

[@kalebestevez5963]

The most overated weapon is definitly the phlogistinator. Yea you are able to get crits, but due to not having airblast you are now left defenseless against the entire enemy team. Because of this getting in a fight with a soldier or demoknight, (2 of the few classes pyro counters) becomes impossible, and your lack of supportive skills, alongside the ability of impacting player positioning, makes it so getting into flamethrower range will most likely end in your death. the Only 1v1s you'll win as a phlog pyro are against a spy, a scout in a closed room (Which you could already kill effectively), or a medic or demoman. However you cant even kill a Medic effectively since they are always surrounded, and not having airblast means we cant reflect back explosion damage as a way to get group kills. Its only benefit is that once you get 300 points of damage you can activate your crits, which although doesn't sound like a lot damage it feels like it since you have to be extremely careful not to get instantly killed when your hitbox dares approach a group of enemy players, since without airblast you lack all defensive capabilities. Even when you actually achieve to kill a group of players with your crits youll still end up dying, since in order for the phlogs slow playstyle to be effective you have to practically throw yourself towards a group of enemies and hope to kill as many as you can before you die. The only thing that makes this gun bearable are the flare guns, which allow the pyro to rack up mphhhhh without being closed range. Then again flares are hard to hit, and at that point just use a normal flamethrower, which awards minicrits for reflects and still gives you the crit for landing a flare shot on a burning player, plus the additional defensive capabilities. the only reason this gun is so hated is because of the scorchshot, since its AOE does massive area fire damage, and is extremely OP. This raks up the Mphhhh meter very fast, and in truth is a very OP combo since you don't have to deal with getting countered by every class in the game as long as you can just gain your fire damage from far away, ranking up the fire damage and giving the phlog an actual aggressive playstyle. However the phlog is still the worst flamethrower since it absolutely sucks with any other loadout other than that specific one.

[@indigomer]

I wouldn’t say so. Phlog gets a lot of use but according to most Phlog users I have spoken to they understand it’s the worst flamethrower due to its lack of airblast. So even though it’s popular I don’t think I would consider it overrated because even the people who main with it rate it moderately.

[@Manny4Life948]

Don’t blame the phlog, blame the scorch shot which is basically a second primary

[@CharlieBodieBob]

12:25 it can have 2, fire is rarely used because pyro usually can’t kill an over-healed heavy. Explosives are decently more common and bullets are the most common, so you really only need 2. The vaccinator gives 75% resistance to any damage type. So over healed heavy with 450hp and 75% resistance equals effectively 1800hp against selected damage type. The vaccinator charges 67% faster, that’s 3x the speed of the normal medi-gun. Most fights in tf2 are only a few seconds, so 2.5 seconds of quadruple health becomes way too powerful.

[@icefire4814]

The vac doesnt make you almost invulnerable at one resistance at a time but you can stack them, also, you can actually make your patient invulnerable by healing into mini uber into arrow into back to healing. Your opponent will get tickled while getting an insane amount of heal, I do it when there is one good player in my team and we win the majority of the time. Also, kunai spies think they are good because they backstab a new player and become very tanky, in fact, most kunai spies ive seen are genuinely terrible, play another knife and learn how to play the game (not to you, indigo, but im talking in general)

[@nick_name0208]

The problem with scout and his stock is that scout is the only class that suffers from the "I see multiple ppl on my screen and have to kill them, so i need all the shots i can get" problem. Every other class either has splash dmg, range or instakills with a relatively ez get away. So every other scatergun having smaller clips is just a huge downside.

[@grenadanotthecountry]

in my experience with stock on scout, its just that ammo is insanely good in this game, but i like the other scatters a lot for having fun too

[@thegoldenbrickstone]

Okay, look. I get your reasoning as to why the Vaccinator is overrated and overhated. On paper the counters you specified should make it a non-issue, but there are some issues with it in practice and how its used that make it a seriously hated weapon. 1. Stock Uber is way better. I agree that stock uber is Medic's most powerful tool by far, but the stock uber is a serious commitment to try and get, and use effectively. You need to try and survive for around 40 seconds building it up for an 8 second period of total invincibility that can change the game in your team's favor. The Vaccinator ubers can rarely accomplish such a feat, but the commitment isn’t there. The Vacc ubers are much more disposable to use, and basically grant total invincibility against 1 dagamge type, plus nullifying critical damage when active. Bullet resistance effectively turns off 4 of the 9 classess 2. Use 2 damage types, or play Soldier or Pyro. On paper, they are easily the best counters to a Vacc Medic since they're the only 2 classes with 2 damage types at once. But trying to kill them effectively on your own is much harder when the Medic can simply stack 2 types of Ubers while their pocket kills you. Each Uber last 2.5 seconds, so with 4 charges, a medic has 5 seconds of immunity to 2 types of damage alongside their pocket. Remember, it also nullifies crits, so no flarepunching, no minicrit airshots, only melee attacks will completely ignore the Vaccinator, but if they're pocketing a Heavy, good luck landing a Market Garden 3. Work with your team to completely overwhelm the Medic. This line of thinking just isnt good. I dont need the full support of my team to kill any other Medic halfway into charging their uber, or even have to worry about after they popped and killed most of my team. The logic for relying on your team to kill 1 person doesn't work since in most matches, nobody's on the exact same page. Unless the Medic pops their ubers during a push, you cannot rely on anyone helping you out since you may just be roaming the backlines. The Vaccinator demands so much attention to kill the medic and pocket against 1 person that it feels targetted to you and you specifically. Flarepuch the Medic but he popped fire resistance? Sorry, no dice. Flanked the enemy as Scout and the Medic noticed you? You will never be able to kill them before their pocket kills you. Do enough to wear down their ubers and another teammate comes over to finish the job? They recharge ubers so quickly because of how disposable they are. I haven't even mentioned how the Ubersaw gives them 1 free uber. Headshot the medic while he was using bullet resistance? Take another shot quickly buddy because he'll pop it and nullify any headshots you go for before they can find a healing source. The Vaccinator is very effective againat solo players and is so disposable that trying to kill them becomes a chore. Vaccinator medics tend to pocket 1 guy and ignore everyone else because they're already cracked at the game, this makes them way harder to kill in a disorganized setting, even if you are trying everything to counter them. That's why the Vaccinator is so hated it does so much for so little, with little to no commitment, and demands everything from 1 person to even leave a scratch on either of the medic or pocket. Its like fighting a player with a wrangler shield and continuous healing, it's miserable on your own. Edit: I forgot to mention. Vaccinator ubers don't stop captures like stock, so if your biggest threats are bullet enemies (which usually are) the Medic effectively has 10 whole seconds of immunity for way less commitment. And if there's a friendly Pyro helping them push, good luck trying to kill anyone with anything

[@indigomer]

@@thegoldenbrickstone I can agree, it’s definitely annoying, especially if you’re a roaming pick class trying to get that medic pick for your team’s benefit. Take it from a scout main. I just disagree with the claim that it’s broken or unbalanced. It trades off medic’s strongest and most influential tool for a weaker version which keeps him alive for longer. I consider that a positive, since it’s a unique design that completely changes how the class is played. Also people have mentioned the lack or coordination in casual, which is valid. But in my experience, coordination isn’t even needed to take a medic down. A medic worth his salt is going to be at the objective with the power classes, and all eyes are on him by default. Any player who isn’t a fresh install understands that you have to shoot the medic first. Sometimes you don’t even have to think about it, you just attack at the same time without a word spoken. It could definitely use a little tweaking to make it less annoying, but what I *don’t* think should happen is a huge nerf that drives it to obscurity. We got enough of those already.

[@thegoldenbrickstone]

@indigomer On that, we agree. It's just very annoying to deal with a Godlike Hale's Own Soldier being continuously pocketed by a Vacc Medic and basically react the same way you would when a Kunai Spy kills most of your team because they were too busy shooting at a sniper with a Razorback on. There's a much more dangerous target to go for, please just kill them already! Regardless, the Vaccinator definitely needs a tweak. It's an interesting concept but it's just so frustrating to deal with. I think nullifying crits along with the 75% resistance to damage is just overkill

[@indigomer]

@ primarily for me, I think the ability to capture points under charge is dumb. Quick Fix can’t do it, so why does Vacc get to? Nobody likes double standards.

[@calebkelly8221]

13:34 this one had me LAUGHING cuz OSHA 10 was bad enough 😆

[@indigomer]

I have had OSHA 10 and 30. 10 was worse because we had to do it online, but 30 was still difficult to stay awake through. We had a great instructor though.

[@calebkelly8221]

@indigomer yeah... I ended up taking OSHA 10 twice due to a slip up at my tech school. The first time was with an instructor, the second time was online and at home. And BOY HOWDY doing it at home sucks, but at least I got my certs

[@TheSquareEngineer]

As for being the Demon and the Devil advocate: The Rescue Ranger and Wranlger combo were *nerf* along time ago, which due this combo, the Wrangler now blocks 33% repairs, it doesn't affect much repairs from wrenches, but it DOES affect repairs coming from the Rescue Ranger, making only repairing 20 hp per bolt, which to fully repair a damaged sentry it will take more than 4 bolts to repair IF the shield is active, which in that time-span, classes like Soldier and Demo can easily destroy if no one helps the engineer, but about the Wrangler, Engineers often *don't* place the sentry on horrible spots but rather reinforce a good spot to make sure the defense is hold tight, as show in the video, the wrangler being used with a mini-sentry is very annoying due to the fact even you destroyed the sentry the engineer still have another one just to be placed, which in fact is annoying and brain dead, but using the wrangler as defensive engineer helps alot do deal with spam and of course classes that can easily destroy your sentry, but doing this, like this 11:40 ? I think turing 2 sources of damage info one isn't effective or even fun doing so. yes the last phrase is from uncle dane

[@mathierry]

nice video. I would say that the ubersaw is overrated, yes 25% uber is really good, but i've been using it exclusively and almost every match I dont even hit someone with it

[@indigomer]

Medic is my least played, so when I do I just run the meta, which includes the Ubersaw. I can call it overrated to a point, but it’s popular for good reason. Ubercharge is medic’s best tool, and getting more of it is very strong. It’s not the only viable option but I’d definitely call it the best.

[@lordlammi1562]

The Tomislav better be listed for heavy

[@cinquine1]

Rocket jumping is the only reason I play tf2 tho

[@indigomer]

@@cinquine1 you probably live on Jump maps most of the time