has the conversation just changed re: gaming vs pro laptops

[@Neil3D]

Thanks to the channel members for their feedback on this before it went live! Quick note, there's a typo at 2:39, the text caption should say "3070Ti" but I mistyped and put "3080Ti".

[@hunteil]

Am I sensing that you'll be collaborating with Tech media circuits like LTT and Puget Systems soon? They both focus on validations of computer systems. LTT has some engineers but they seem to mainly focus on Solidworks. Maybe you can collaborate with them on testing your theories out. Linus is usually game for these gaming vs enterprise units. He may even have some of these parts on hand to test in PC towers. He just needs a professional to critique the setups. In case you missed it, LTT invested heavily in a labs to test situations like you're talking about.

[@rickpalechuk4411]

Good to know Neil, thanks for sharing Cheers

[@JeffreySBarrero]

Very good point and thanks to one of your early videos explaining the importance of "workstations" change my mind set about work laptop configuration, and it certainly does help a lot when asking a boss for a 10k laptop when it says workstation and no a gaming super machine; the facial expression is priceless LOL

[@fjnagle2nd]

I've always respected your opinions ever since I started following your channel. That being said, I've been in the other camp (AMD, gaming type desktops) and the reason being has always be cost driven motives. I've always been able to build my own workstation (AMD based) for a price I could afford vs the cost of a pro workstation. I've never had any hardware compatibility issues when running Inventor. And my "gaming" rigs have always out performed the Intel based "pro workstations". How do I know this? At work I used an Intel based "pro" workstation while at home I used my AMD based home built workstation as I was allowed and even encouraged to take work home. For the record, this was pre pandemic, pre retirement. As always, enjoy your content. God bless, stay well and looking forward to your next video.

[@TooTallToby]

Hi Neil! Great comparison - that's crazy that the same hardware can give such a difference in performance (due to the PSU throttling or other tweeks).

[@juanpablo-vn1xo]

Use revit, twinmotion, autocad, etc, etc and never used professional grade - always built my own workstation with high end gaming tech and never had a problem.... Tried the nvidia professional quadro cards in the past and always found them under powered compared to main stream gpu's.... So I agree 👍

[@SaltyNomad]

I noticed recently that the Nvidia Geforce Experience app has an option to switch driver preference from gaming to creative (I think it's been there a while before I noticed it). If workstation and gaming gpu's share the same silicone, the only difference being the drivers, maybe we will see the same trend in gpu's as we are in the cpu space. It would be interesting to see the InvMark results toggling this feature on and off. I'm sure it has been tried already, I might have to try it for myself. Thanks for the content.

[@SermedAlWasiti]

A good one, mate... As I commented in an earlier vid, I went ahead and got a refurbished Lenovo P17 Gen2 with an i9-11950H, purely for price reasons (sub 3k USD). I had been looking at the gt77 and the strix scar 17 se for weeks before that, and drooling, but 5k+ prices for a personal workstation-grade gaming system was too much, even though I knew I was getting less performance. I will keep on following this discussion, for my next upgrade...

[@jamiereader]

Really interesting breakdown bud, thank you for that

[@grizzleebair]

A few years ago, I was buying a laptop for work and all the ones powerful enough were more on the gamer side. I asked if they at least had a stealth looking one. Lo and behold they recommended a very beautiful looking professional laptop. It had same specs as the gaming one but was labelled as their Creators model. Suffice it to say, both my boss and I were ecstatic with it. So, I am not surprised this is the path this is going.

[@BlueLeafSoftware]

Thanks. You saved me from wasting $NZ6.5k on a Fury g9. I thought I found the perfect machine in the Legion 7i, but their sales team tells me it doesn't support thunderbolt 4 docks. Seems like manufacturer's are determined to cripple something. The quest for a new machine continues.

[@Barboron]

If I had the option, I would avoid pro work stations. I speced the ones we have but only in terms of CPU, GPU, and how much RAM (not brand) etc. Our actual IT guys go through Dell to purchase the final product with their MoBos. The amount of issues we have is unbareable. That's even before we go into any modelling program. Issues with the OS where moving windows acorss the screen is delayed, as if it's floating in water. Taking several seconds to create folders. Never had any of these kind of issues on my own PC which cost about have the proce and would outperform these. Work comptuer using a P4000 (RTX4000 in our newer ones) and W-2125. Company has opted to turn a blind eye to the issues and we got VMs not running on Azure. Apparently Microsoft themselves found it pretty shocking we got Revit running on them without issue.

[@J_McPhearsom]

I picked up a Dell 7770 for $8,000 off recently, expected an overheating nightmare, but I’ve been impressed. There have been 2 major driver updates, I wonder if they did something to address some of the issues you’ve presented and many complained about?

[@PeterPopovicsaStrucc]

Good point.... Shame or not... I ended up with an Asus Rog Strix- after almost 2 decades of using Dell business and professional mobile workstations. After the release of the 12th gen Intel CPUs I was really looking forward to move on towards a Precision 7770... But... Could not wait for the release... It was just not there, could not order, and could not wait for it anymore... In our region was the same issue with MSI Titan. I really like all the features of it / especially 4 slots for RAM, and support for next gen SSDs... and in theory, a professional workstation with exactly the same specs was about to come out... But, still couldn't get it in time.... So I ended up with an Asus gamer laptop. The brand is not my favorite / sure I won't use it as a babe magnet,,,, And yes, take it to a meeting I see some concerning eyebrows expression... But in a way I enjoy it. It's a little scandalous to appear with a gaming laptop - what's funny I myself didn't use my computers for any serious gaming for a long time.... Anyway, it's funny, but more important: it's impressive. Using inventor, currently it is beating all the competitors in the benchmark tests. This is not the major point though - (honestly Inventor is very lame using a single CPU core for most of its calculations... in many cases not even an optimal. way... ) But during a presentation or engineering conversation ad-hoc loading any of my huge Inventor assemblies in a reasonable 5-15 seconds, without the need of apologizing and asking for more patience involving 1-2 minutes of uncomfortable conversation definitely increased my self confidence.... It's just good and cool. Besides, the actual warranty, repair, and other professional services.... I could barely benefit of. ... However, there are some irritating issue, like> - even with the built in numerical keypad (I'm old, and for me it's a must) I miss page insert, up/down keys... Or.... I'd rathe see F1-F12 with proper keyboard backlight, than the FN symbol... But still - the pure performance of this beast is convincing.

[@kondaments]

I have bought about 5 HP Omen, 12th Gen Intel laptops directly from HP (In Australia) - Generally the 3070 Ti versions for General Revit Use. Downside - They only come with 16 Gig RAM (HP documents say only total 32 Gig 'supported', which is BS) and 512 GB m.2 and 11 Home Upside - : I buy 11 pro upgrade & 64 Gig DDR5 & 1TB m.2 and swap it out without risking warranty issues. (have verified this with HP) Fantastic bang for buck. Revit Benchmark tests trump previous generations by a sizable margin. Maybe the transition to faster DDR5 helps, which, (correct me if Im wrong) has its own error correction built in ( ECC RAM like?) - so further enhances the argument of embracing 'consumer/gaming' grade hardware? edit: Another Upside: Only if you ask for it, you *can* purchase the 3 Yr Next Business Day/Accidental Damage coverage.

[@REMISCStv]

I have always respected your stance on this subject. Shocking that Dell has allowed for that limited power on that Precision laptop! Happy to say since 2015 I have been selling Intel Core series CPU with Geforce cards to workstation clients in my custom workstation builds. Solidworks is the only software I go Quadro on unless the client needs more VRAM than what Geforce offers. What makes or breaks a workstation is the stress testing involved. As always, enjoy your videos.

[@OssanZangetsu]

LOL!!! Workstation laptops are for consistency where as gaming laptops like their desktop counterparts are living on the edge...if they break just go out and get another one or in the case of a desktop PC just replace the component.

[@pieterlalleman956]

Thanks for sharing, at the moment the msi CreatorPro Z17 - A12U is also certified for Autodesk Inventor, Vred , solidworks e.g. isn´t that an option? -latest 12th Gen. Intel Core i9 -NVIDIA RTX A5500 Looks fine to me, a serious consideration. Cheers, have a good evening.

[@johandegreef3846]

Maybe Dell & HP zbook go for reliability and stability, and not for squeezing out max performance out of workstations.

[@princemarkokibe7661]

His voice is good for ASMR 😃

[@fjnagle2nd]

On another note, is there a Cad Bench version that works with Inventor 2023? Thanks for you time.

[@Neil3D]

Yea my InvMark has worked with 2023 since it released... is it not working for you? I've used it hundreds of times with 2023

[@fjnagle2nd]

@@Neil3D I was using Cadbench I think, but I found yours and got it working. Thanks for your help.

[@raflialiim8927]

can you make video about msi creator pro x17

[@Lisa_Turner]

Fab video :)

[@paulo_lf_]

Dell’s alienware x17 is smoking 🚬 most if not all dell’s workstations…you better believe it 😉

[@ricardoneri809]

I love your jacket! where can I get one?

[@Neil3D]

Thanks! That one is an Autodesk issue for Expert Elite members, but it's from a brand who do custom merch so if I ever get to a point where there's enough people wanting to buy Tech3D merch, I could make my own of them!

[@ShainAndrews]

Zero chance I will have my team running around with gaming laptops. 1. We are professionals. At no point are we going to present hardware that represents anything less than that. First time I see fing RGB somebody will be receiving their severance papers. 2. Robustness. I am not convinced that any gaming laptop is as robust as their enterprise counterparts. From the chassis to the boards and interfaces. Asus in particular has horrid quality, and it all rapidly changes from year to year, and model to model. 3. Warranty. A person has to look closely as to what kind of support is really available on consumer products. 4. The heavy lifting will still be done with desktops. Frankly desktops are the space I consider custom builds as viable. I doubt OEM's will ever match the aftermarket thermal solutions.

[@Neil3D]

And like I said in here, I've always been in the exact same camp as you. But the performance difference is too much to ignore, RGB can be turned off... the point of this wasn't to say that everyone should go buy gaming laptops but instead the conversation about it has changed for me. Isn't black and white now.

[@FunnymanBadger]

Deez