That's Why Ascended Astarion DOESN'T Lose His Soul | Baldur's Gate 3

[@ArtsiteBunny]

Larian conformed that astartion did not lose his soul it's still astartion, completing the ritual just enhanced his bad traits. He's still our little adorable bat

[@iamkittybg3]

that's true ❤️

[@JMOlsen_]

I wouldn't consider ambition and confidence bad traits. Lol.

[@kennedyflint6140]

Im not going to lie I also believed he lost his soul. I tried to ascend to be different but I can't lol (hence why love watching your vids). But i think the reason why so many ppl think this is not only the ritual itself, but because if you keep him as a spawn he admits that he began to feel himself slipping away.

[@iamkittybg3]

@kennedyflint6140 yeah, a lot of people take metaphors too literally.

[@SkycometAnimeVamp]

It enhances his arrogance but that trait is attractive to some people. Which is valid

[@AlexKhodja]

When he looks at his reflection, I want to cry with happiness for him🥲. It is very symbolic that he has actually found himself again and not lost himself, as some say. He no longer feels the hunger he suffered from. It's like getting rid of an aching pain that previously could only be suppressed by temporary means. Spawn says his heart will "beat" thanks to Tav, but that's just a figure of speech. The ascended one's heart really starts beating and he begins to feel real emotions and he is intoxicated by all these. He's like a thirsty man who's been given the purest water to drink. And knowing all this, I can't deny him the ritual.

[@iamkittybg3]

@@AlexKhodja It's true. And spawn says that he will try to live again, while Ascended Astarion says that he already feels alive. ❤️ I also only ascend him now, I don't want to deprive him of everything for some moral reasons and leave him as a spawn.

[@Nakumiya]

Oh beautifully said!

[@mvpboleyn9389]

It makes me sad to see this community so divided about the Spawn vs Ascended question. I love both versions of Astarion and I am glad people like you make an effort in showcasing how this path is not automatically a way to doom him. It's simply a game and a character we all love. And we should all be able to express that love 😊🥰

[@iamkittybg3]

Thank you.❤ I agree with you. It's good that there are many people who see it the same way as I do.❤

[@silverink1824]

Personally for me, I haven't gotten there yet. I think both options are logical in their own way. It just depends on how you guide him even after he ascends it's how you guide him

[@RazberrieSherbet]

The pact with Mephistopheles is the reason why I think leaving Astarion as a spawn is one of the worse endings possible. If Astarion does not complete the ritual himself, he deprives Mephistopheles of those 7,000 souls, that is not something he is likely to forgive. A spawn on their own, will not last long; for all his cruelty Cazador still protected Astarion from outside harm (classic abuser behavior, only they are allowed to hurt you). We also know from lore that the gods despise vampires and their souls are deemed "lost". This means that with the ritual unfinished, Mephistopheles gets Cazador's soul and he can easily make claim to Astation's as well; the gods would not interfere. So spawn Astarions fate is to spend an eternity in hell, owned by Mephistopheles, who will most likely use Cazador to inflict the same punishment on Astarion that he endured while alive. When people say spawn Astarion is the "happy" ending, they are only looking at the short term. They are not thinking about the true consequences of not completing the ritual.

[@iamkittybg3]

Wow, thank you, that's very interesting.❤ I've never thought about it that deeply, but I think you're right. It seems to me that these people are driven by their own egoism and their own idea of ​​good and morality, which doesn't work quite the way they imagine in DnD. By leaving Astarion as a spawn, the player condemns him to eternal hunger, disrespect from other vampires, and hatred from other creatures in society.

[@serpent_seed]

​@@iamkittybg3 Right, the same goes for freeing these 7000 souls just for the sake of a twisted morality that they deserve a chance. And what about people of Baldur's Gate or Under dark? Shouldn't they have a chance? Or should they live in constant fear of the feral hungry vampire spawn roaming their world?

[@JMOlsen_]

Exactly. Those praising the virtue of the spawn path always forget the bigger picture. The one where Mephistopheles (only the second most powerful arch-devil) doesn't get a desirable resource he was anticipating to receive, where Astarion is left a mere spawn (not on equal footing with actual vampires, despite spending over 2 centuries in undeath), with many enemies because of his undead status but very, very little power. This is considered "good", rather than harmful and cruel towards Astarion and not remotely long term viable. Sometimes the notions of "good" get crazy.

[@Nakumiya]

@@serpent_seed in my *one* run where I kept him spawn and freed the other 7000 spawn I got a letter from Sebastian where he said lots of those spawn died in the Underdark or vanished and they basically killed every single living creature they found until Astarion's siblings showed up to help them. Soooo yeah, not the best idea to free them anyway lol

[@serpent_seed]

@@Nakumiya This explains a lot! 😱 In my Spawn Astarion run I usually leave only his siblings in hope that maybe Dalyria will find a cure against vampirism, about which she has written in her diary (you can find one in the Casador's palace). She looks the most prudent of all the spawn.

[@TrancerDesigns]

Yes! Thank you for making this. I'm so sick of people spouting their "he lost his soul" headcanon as fact.

[@iamkittybg3]

@@TrancerDesigns I'm also tired of this nonsense about him losing his soul, although the game doesn't say anything close to that. On the contrary, he gained a lot ❤️

[@britt6184]

I completely agree. I normally like to play a morally good person in games(chaotic good specifically)but Astarion's quest is the first one where I prefer the evil option more because it greatly benefits my favorite companion. What the devs try to pass off as the morally good option only serves to infuriate me with how dumb it is. Seriously, how is it a good thing to release thousands of feral vampires into the city/area surrounding Baldur's Gate? Not to mention the absurdity of Astarion, one of the spawns that played a role in all those people's initial deaths, becoming their leader. Oh he controls them through fear? Why should they fear him when they vastly outnumber him? I guess I prefer ascension for Astarion because it feels the most natural for his character is the point I'm trying to make, even if that route still has its inconsistencies/plotholes.

[@iamkittybg3]

Yeah, I also think the ending where the spawn Astarion becomes the leader of the other spawns is the most absurd. Firstly, he never liked being in the underdark, secondly, he didn't like his brothers and sisters, thirdly, he himself calls the other spawns ghosts from the past. He wanted to escape from all this, so this ending with him and the spawns in the underdark seems very ridiculous to me.

[@elenapanova8297]

@@iamkittybg3 he seems even didnt create any spawns as Ascended. He like "rule from shadows"... or more likely just enjoy his hedonistic life. Seems he dont willing control any spawns. Especially those (7000) who dont have any reason to obey. IMO only thing he like as spawn it is "lets find way walking under sun". Also, i think we owed him this, because we concede him give up on ascension.

[@iamkittybg3]

@@elenapanova8297 Yes, in the epilogue after half a year all he did was repair the palace.😄 And he feels happy with Tav in a romance. I think he doesn't need anything more than to be in each other's arms. ❤As for the spawn ending, I agree that finding a cure is the best thing Tav can offer him if he remains a spawn.

[@elenapanova8297]

@@iamkittybg3 well, righ after ascencion he tell about creating army of new spawns. But then act like just wealthy corrupt noble. On last party only "vampiric lord" thing in him is adorable bat. He expand his power in very... human way.

[@wingedcelestial]

Omg, that's a wonderful point about the soul orb. It's right there in plain sight - Withers can still resurrect him because he still has his soul. Fantastic video, thank you!

[@iamkittybg3]

thank you ❤

[@Nakumiya]

Oh I love this, thanks so much for putting it together! A great video, as always. "Arousals and appetites of man will be returned to him" and there we have it according to Raphael too, Astarion has his feelings, including love. This is something Cazador lost, he only felt grief (which you can read from his mind if you beat him without Astarion) and his vampiric hunger. He yearned to feel again. Since a lot of people say AA doesn't feel love and that he only lies if he claims he loves Tav lol. And while I hate doing it, I love how he reacts when Haarlep uses Tav's body. Only Astarion reacts with empathy, other companions basically say "eww", only he knows what's going on and feels protective and angry on Tav's behalf.

[@iamkittybg3]

@@Nakumiya Thank you very much! ❤️ Yes, AA feels everything much stronger, including love. It is even clear from the dialogues that he wants to constantly talk about his love for Tav. He finally becomes himself, without masks. And as for me, he becomes much more honest with himself and with others. ☺️

[@sammyisanoctopus]

Astarion is the most empathetic companion. The others have their moments, but it's always there with Astarion.

[@Nakumiya]

@@iamkittybg3 I agree. After ascension I felt like I was finally talking to the real him. I love spawn, I really do, but the first time I ascended him I thought "ah, there you are, the real you." And instead of being scared or disliking him I liked him even more.

[@Nakumiya]

@@sammyisanoctopus he really is. And I love how the group's "evil, self-serving jackass" is the one who has the most empathy. You'd think it would be Karlach or Gale, but nope, Astarion.

[@littlelady79KK]

@@Nakumiya oh no. Karlach even won't you friend anymore after tell her You a Vampire. 🥲 Gale has enough Empathie too. He s ok with 2 vampys at Camp 😅 ( oh i muss test him to bite. I don't know his reaction yet 😂)

[@PatriciaAncunínBG3]

Another great video 👏🏻 Your work truly inspires us to defend Lord Astarion's good name 🖤

[@iamkittybg3]

thank you so much 🤗❤

[@KiinDovah-z5i]

I hadn't considered the rite and its consequences from this point of view. This video brings another look at the story of our beloved vampire ! I love it, you must be so passionate, thank you Kitty for sharing this with us !😄🥰

[@iamkittybg3]

@@KiinDovah-z5i thank you, I am very glad that you looked at this ritual differently and found my video interesting ❤️☺️

[@Marielle685]

Thank you for the great work! ❤💯There is absolutely nothing wrong with Astarion's soul. The “AA lost his soul” gaslighting was based on one line Karlach said for UA (“He could've had it all, but he kept his soul”). This “losing his soul” theme is reminiscent of some sectarianism, thanks for your knowledgeable approach in dispelling that myth! Astarion is in no way connected to Mephistopheles, he didn't sign a contract with him, he doesn't serve him. “Souls in exchange for power” is a one-time deal, just as one-time as the ‘killing Jurgir in exchange for information’ we had with Raphael, only the price and reward is higher. The same type of deal with the devil as our Ascension worked great in the movie Pirates of the Caribbean. Jack made a deal with Davy Jones (the sea devil) for a hundred souls. And no one condemned Jack Sparrow for it, everyone laughed and cheered. 100 souls, of course, is less than 7000 (though doomed in advance, by Cazador, not Astarion), but the importance of what the ritual gives is higher for Astarion than just being able to have a cool ship for free for Jack. Astarion is just as entitled to a full life, just as the player who loves Astarion is entitled to a happy ending with the Ascended Lord. 💞

[@iamkittybg3]

Honestly, I come across this nonsense about losing his soul quite often, so I decided to make this video because I'm tired of chewing the same thing over and over again. 😅 Apparently people take metaphors literally and the fact that the game never says that he loses his soul is not enough for them.😂 Thanks for the example with Pirates of the Caribbean, I completely forgot about that moment there and it's a great comparison.❤️

[@Marielle685]

@@iamkittybg3 Yes, it's confusing when you go through the game and everything is fine, and then suddenly you read sweeping statements that “Astarion has lost his soul”. It reminds you of those guys who ring your doorbell and offer to take their books, make donations and urgently join their organization, otherwise it's all over, your soul is lost...🤦‍♀ The game canonically shows a pact with the devil (Wyll and Mizora). And, if contract workers lose their souls (and Astarion isn't even a contract worker), then we should have met zombie Wyll back in the day, who also lost his soul by making a deal with Mizora. It would be very convenient for the devils if anyone who made a deal with them would lose their soul right away, and would only do what the devil wants. There wouldn't need to be any punishments, any rewards, any incentives for the contract worker to perform well. And, if those who made a contract lost their souls (and Astarion didn't even make a contract), then we'd have to meet zombie Wyll, who also lost his soul by making a deal with Mizora. It would be very convenient for the devils if anyone who made a deal with them would lose their soul right away, and would only do what the devil wants. There wouldn't need to be any punishments, any rewards, any incentives for the contract worker to perform well. Mephistopheles is also called “the god of lawyers and contracts.” “Mephistopheles is possibly the most lawful being in existence. Mephistopheles hates those who would lie, and for him to commit a lie would violate a deep aspect of his own nature. If Mephistopheles commits to something, it can be counted on to be done”. This is true law-abiding evil. He does not lie and honors the treaty faithfully. If the contract says 7000 souls, he will not take 7001 - that would be a breach of contract. Mephistopheles always honors the contract. You made a good point about the moment of Astarion's resurrection in the video. The resurrection process itself is the return of the soul to the body. Besides, the soul in DnD is you yourself, your personality. A intelligent being without a soul cannot exist. A being without a soul is a zombie. The soul of the deceased is in the deity's domain, and a necromancer can raise their body with magic, but without a soul, the body will only be a shell, a biorobot that has no consciousness of its own. The soul of our adorable bitey sunshine is perfectly fine. And metaphorically - his soul has opened up, he is free and expresses himself as he is.❤

[@Nakumiya]

​@@Marielle685 you are so right, I was SO confused when I ascended him after seeing all these horrible shorts that show him as abusive and in my game he was so sweet to my character. I kept thinking I missed a scene somewhere, because I kept waiting for him to become abusive but no. Instead it's just some people who headcannon something and suddenly they go around and pretend it's cannon. They fantasize he's abusive and lost his soul etc despite the game giving no evidence that this is true but then laugh at us when we point out Tav probably gets turned into his vampire bride and not spawn, despite the game following the description of that ritual almost to a tee. They are so desperate to make him an abuser, they manipulate videos and keep repeating the same tired phrases over and over, it's ridiculous. Somehow he is Cazador 2.0 despite not doing anything remotely like Cazador, he only kills what we point at, he makes Tav a vampire as gently as possible, he is protective. And despite there being no evidence he suddenly "loses his soul"...

[@yuhanma6205]

As Astarion origin, after completing the ritual, narrator said something like his heart beats again and nothing else. Souls are play things for gods and devils in DnD lore anyways, it's a messy subject. But within BG3, Ascended Astarion is not bond to the archdevil. It's Larian's homebrew lore and I am happy for it.

[@iamkittybg3]

Indeed ❤️

[@MizuMing]

And that's the thing too .... The archdevil GOT 7000 souls, he got what he wanted. It was purely transactional, he doesn't require Astarion's soul on top of that. That wasn't a requirement for Cazador either, so why would it suddenly change for Astarion who took Cazador's place? 🤷

[@lettywurmeister224]

I like how [some] ppl argue that spawn is the best and aa is the worst based on lore. but they really forget that dnd lore states that when a person becomes a vampire spawn they become evil, no matter they alignment before. so, in theory, aa would be the best shot for a good astarion as it is a new kind of monster, I doubt he would chose this path tho. also astarion learning to be a good person could be cuz of the tadpole changing the rules, in this case I have to agree with the person above that said spawn astarion is a terrible outcome long term. but let's not forget this is a fantasy world and all headcannons are valid.

[@iamkittybg3]

@@lettywurmeister224 that's right❤️

[@vampiregoth9]

didn't wotc pretty much do away with alignment though - nobody is good or evil anymore, and even in the monster manual alignment doesn't *really* do anything. the decision was based on the clear racialization of playable races being associated with alignment (e.g., half-orcs were canonically evil). (imo) bg3 makes a big point of letting people's actions speak for themselves, and not telling the player "this person is good/evil".

[@elenapanova8297]

Why even peoples think he lost his soul? Just because he become extremely arrogant from arrogant? (or more like dont need to be polite anymore)

[@iamkittybg3]

@@elenapanova8297 I don't know. 😂 The game never says he loses his soul. Maybe people made it up to themselves that he loses his soul to justify their playthroughs. 🤷🏻‍♀️😂

[@Orchard473]

They can't accept that AA fully reveals his dark side, so it's easier for them to invent a fanon where he "lost himself" and "lost his soul." The developers have completely debunked this fanon. Additionally, they tend to interpret the darker sides of a personality as something alien, believing that the true self can only be good. They actively deny Astarion's evil side, attributing it solely to trauma. I think this is just a defense mechanism for them. Also, they often take didactic phrases/messages literally. When Karlach said that he would lose his soul if he ascended, they assumed it should be taken literally, although Karlach was simply presenting her stance based on her worldview. They also frequently misinterpret and selectively interpret D&D lore.

[@elenapanova8297]

@@Orchard473 but he never really hide his dark side. He approve alot cruel, ultimate selfish things. He want take control on Absolute. He want perform ritual even if it takes not 7, but 7 thousands souls. He is arrogant. He is racist. What more they need to understand that Astasrion is evilish in general?

[@pamelagoneillmartinez1405]

Hahaha exactly! Love that be arrogant from arrogant. He was already arrogant and a brat and there were LOTS of moments where he showed his personality because that’s how he was and IS. He was a magistrate! He knows power from a high law rank perspective. See what having power over not only yourself but others can do. Not so far from the world we live in now. Hierarchy. The system. I stopped choosing for him in my second play through and on and if you don’t persuade him or anything he knows to take decisions by himself. He doesn’t kill Petras. He approves of you saving children and animals in need. But he also thinks of self preservation in a world full of piranhas. Like the guy tells your Tav he knows when he has to BE GOOD. All in all love your comment haha🫶✨❤️‍🔥

[@Nakumiya]

@@elenapanova8297 they like to pretend spawn is a sweet little baby (they even call him "my sweet boy" "pookie baby" as if spawn is not also a murderer and evil, I mean he is a vampire lol), so Ascended must be evil and lost his soul just because be no longer pretends to be good. They just seem to completely ignore the fact that spawn is also a vampire, and he's been power hungry and evil (or at the least self-serving) from the start. Spawn, as you correctly state, is the one who wants to do the ritual.

[@Dusty_Inkwell]

This whole debate over Spawn and AA is getting really tiresome. Just let people enjoy what they want. It's fictional. And a fictional story should be were we explore decisions and twists in a safe space. Discourse is important and interesting if people remain respectful. For me personally, I simply do not enjoy how he behaves after his acension. It makes me uncomfortable. It's just not my flavour. I prefer him as a spawn, while at the same time recognizing the problems for him that come with it. I don't think either of the endings are really good or really bad. It depends how you look at it and what's important to you personally. We all have different tastes, pasts, possible traumas, etc. so we will all chose different approaches or reactions along Astarions story. His story and the plethora of different feelings, as well as moral conundrums presented in it, is what makes Astarion's tale so compelling to me. Also thank you for putting these videos together, it's great to have a quick reference at hand if you're not currently in the game to go through save files and thousands of parchments xD

[@iamkittybg3]

Thank you. I'm glad you found this video useful.❤

[@serebranka]

Thank you for this! You totally described my feelings. Like, I tried AA path too, I get where it came from and even pros for the character - but AA's attitude towards my character is what makes it uncomfortable for me. But what of it that lots of others choose this way to play? It's an rpg for god's sake! I was so surprised that there is a whole SA / AA thing going on, didn't even know it existed at first. These fandom holy wars are just ridiculous

[@Nakumiya]

It would be so lovely if Spawn and AA fans could get along yes. After all, we all like Astarion, we just prefer different endings. Spawn isn't for me, I like AA, but I definitely won't begrudge a Spawn fan the ending they like. After all, like you say, it's a game, just because someone else has him as spawn doesn't mean he'll suddenly turn from AA to spawn in my game, or just because I ascend him doesn't change anyone's spawn to the ascended version either. The only endings I really hate for him are the ones where he ends up dead or a zombie.

[@thecrackpotartist]

I like both versions of Astarion, it's just a game in the end. The people who complain about acending him or not !

[@Nakumiya]

It's also funny how ascending him riles them up but it's okay to stake him or let Cazador take him. Not seeing many people get on the barricades for that, unlike all the backlash Ascended fans face when we simply ascend him. At least we don't end with a dead Astarion. I tried both versions, I personally like AA more, but yes like you say, it's a game. Let people have fun. None of us are really marrying a vampire lord (alas...).

[@iamkittybg3]

@@thecrackpotartist Thank you! ❤️I try to show both versions of Astarion on this channel, but I also think that Ascended Astarion is unfairly bullied. It's sad to be honest.

[@iamkittybg3]

@@Nakumiya "None of us are really marrying a vampire lord (alas...)." -Alas, indeed 😭😅

[@Nakumiya]

@@iamkittybg3 the way I'm mad this will never happen to me haha 😅

[@thecrackpotartist]

@@Nakumiya Right. Also If you have the approval mod installed both gale and shadowhart want astarion to drink from the drow because of that potion. Yet people think Gale and shadowheart are perfect. All of them are messed up. lol!

[@littlelady79KK]

But we are bad people and need to go out to touch some grass 🤪 I love my vampy lord ❤❤ You're tav looks great ❤

[@iamkittybg3]

yeah, we are so bad people with our pixel vampire lord😂😂😂 Thank you ❤️❤️❤️

[@elenapanova8297]

There is winter. Where i should find fkin grass? :) Better i go play my... i think it will be 5th game with AA romance :)

[@Nakumiya]

Touched some grass, still love my Lord Astarion 😂😂😂

[@littlelady79KK]

@Nakumiya 😂😂

[@TrancerDesigns]

@@Nakumiya We touch grass in the sun with our vampire lord lol.

[@lucienkage3229]

I don't know. I mean I get the perks of this ritual i really do. It's just, if only there were a way to achieve it without having to sacrifice seven thousand people to an arch devil. If only there was some alternative way for Astarion to walk in the sun and be free of the pain of the sanguine hunger. I hate that the writers didn't even bother to write out that possiblity. It's like being a vampire is all that he's allowed to be, and nothing else. It's like pick this wretched power or suffer forever in the dark as a slave to vampiric blood thirst. I've always hated that about vampire characters because it's like their not allowed to be truly good. Astarion means "Little Star" not "Vampire Light".

[@britt6184]

Vampires are evil by nature and based on some of his dialogue throughout the game Astarion might not have been the best person before turning to begin with. I agree though that there should have been an alternative to performing the ritual to let Astarion walk in the light without burning like a cure for his vampirism.

[@lucienkage3229]

@britt6184 I just can't help but feel it unfair as they do redemption arcs for werewolves all the time. I mean they could figure out how to give a bhaal-Spawn a redemption arc without the misery yet they suddenly couldn't do it for this character. Um yeah right. This makes the writers sound incredibly lazy, and wanting this character miserable just deliberately. I don't know about you but that really grinds at me.

[@abdelellahtalmasani7746]

This video is very useful and well made, and I want to know your thoughts on some points that I have been thinking about. 1. AA is very close-minded, he has the power to give immortality and more with the only string being obedience. Do you know how many would accept this deal, Astarion could conquer the world. He might be much less powerful than gods, but he isn’t bound by any rules and that makes him far more powerful than them. Those who accept his gifts would have no need of gods, and the gods would lose followers and more against The biggest threat they have ever seen.But no, Astarion is content playing petty games and only controlling baldur’s gate. Even a mindflayer tav can criticize his petty goals, and astarion would say that these are the only games worth playing. In a romance banter, minthara herself asks AA to bite her so that she has his powers, however AA foolishly refuses to have her as a spawn( remember how useful she was to the absolute), because he is content with Tav. He is the ascendant vampire, yet he behaves and is using his powers like your run of the mill vampire. 2. The only good ending with the 7000 spawn is them being shepherded by you and astarion( this ending does make sense, because while Astarion would not do this on his own, he would with a romanced Tav), all the other endings involve releasing monsters to the world. 3. This is more of a question, but why do the siblings of astarion behave more like the spawn than Astarion himself, even after you free them, their eyes are still glowing, and they run away as fast as they could, just like the spawn. Why are they less independent and have less self-control than Astarion even after getting their freedom? So in the end,(if you are not romancing Astarion), you are stuck between releasing innocent monsters or making your companion more powerful? It is obvious which choice I am doing every time( the latter).

[@iamkittybg3]

Thank you, I'm glad you found this video useful. Now I'll try to answer your questions and write what I think: 1. Minthara: Would you ever consider sharing the gift of immortality with me, Astarion? Astarion: I think not. That is for me and my darling to share. Minthara: If they have prevented your eyes and fangs from wandering to other necks, it must be a special bond indeed. Astarion only makes Tav a vampire in the romance and this is a reference to how vampires make mortals their bride/groom from the DND lore. I have a separate video on the channel about this. ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZbQkIWHis-MhLM ) This is completely different and it is understandable why Astarion refuses Minthara, because what he did with Tav is a vampire marriage. In addition, ordinary spawns are not given the blood of the creator, but he gave it to Tav. Cazador made spawns for the ritual, and not because he just liked it. Astarion does not need this. AA, on the contrary, breaks the rules of Velioth and shares power with Tav, makes them his spouse/consort. That's why he refuses Minthara. Also, he is involved in politics and does it not as some kind of monster, but as an ordinary politician. The ritual made him alive again, it was important for him to walk in the sun and not experience constant hunger. I think he just wants to live and enjoy life in Baldur's Gate, why destroy it all. He understands this. And he has a lot of time to achieve a lot here. 2. I don't think that a good ending is to release 7000 spawns and go with them to the underdark in a romance with Astarion. He did not like his brothers and sisters, called the rest of the spawns ghosts from the past and did not really want to linger in the underdark. When Withers sends an invitation to the party, the narrator says that we hide in the ruins, afraid of everything and trusting no one. This does not sound like a happy ending. 7000 spawns are dangerous and releasing them is worse for me than not releasing them. This is my opinion. 3. To be honest, it seemed to me that their eyes stop glowing. But this is not so important. I do not think that they are less independent, on the contrary, they leave so quickly for this very reason. They do not owe anything to anyone anymore and are free, why should they linger in the palace?

[@undyne1]

I love both AA and spawn equally now, but I still don't like how power hungry and rough he is. I could excuse it by saying that he's simply high on his new power and can't control himself, and its up to Tav to either cool him down or fuel him. Both paths are good and bad on their own right, I just wish I had an AA that acted like spawn, if that makes sense. The only reason I usually do the spawn path is because of how he acts and gives us the sweet graveyard scene, but hated having the lingering thought of 7000 vampires wiping out the Underdark and Baldur's Gate in my consciousness, as well as dooming everyone with eternal hunger. The ascended route is more logical and better, but Astarion's new personality doesn't appeal to me and I lose The Gur as allies, unable to resolve the conflict peacefully.

[@Nakumiya]

You do get the "Retinue of the Vampire Lord" instead of the Gur though. And if the Gur wanted a specific outcome maybe they should have gotten down to Cazador's basement faster lol.

[@britt6184]

The Gur are basically worthless anyway considering all the other allies you can potentially get. The bloody Orthon alone is much better than a bunch of self-righteous monster hunters and I find it hilarious how you can convince him to not only dispose of his minions and then himself but also turn against Raphael to join you in the final battle.

[@Nakumiya]

@britt6184 plus he calls you "Little rabbit" 😍 I like Yurgir.

[@SkycometAnimeVamp]

I don’t like ascended Astarion, but that’s only because I don’t like him treating Tav like property. But AA is still Astarion. SA and AA are two different parts of his personality. Like he split in half or something. The player makes a choice on what version of Astarion they want. The player can choose to help him (but you are still choosing his path) or they can choose to try to convince him to change his mind. Regardless, it’s a choice based on the preference of the player. I hate the infighting. Astarion is evil regardless. You’re choosing whether to be his spawn or his equal. That’s all. Some people like being submissive to a dom. that’s ok. It’s also ok to not like that.

[@Marielle685]

In fact, if you analyze the game and possible lines/actions for Tav, in the case of Ascension it is not Astarion who is categorically dominant, but Tav who is a priori a submissive. Tav basically can't tell Astarion that she doesn't want to play this role, there are no such lines. There's no way to react to the narrator's line about “you like to degrade yourself” - it's the only check in the game, passing it gives no additional lines or options. There's no line about Tav wanting classic kisses, etc. Astarion sees Tav submissive in front of him who actually enjoy it and behaves accordingly. Of course, some people like to be submissive, and it's good that they were given such a gift, but the fact that they left no choice for other players - it certainly violates all the basic principles of an RPG game. The player character is canonically submissive, I wouldn't say that's a great asset to the game. But for those who don't like it, modders made great mods with alternative kisses, the game gets much better with them. Choosing to help or not to help Astarion is a choice not only of player preference, but also of his fate - whether he will remain a “spawn forever” with starvation, eternal darkness and a horrible “burning ending” or whether he will be able to feel alive again and enjoy a full life. Frankly, I find the very idea of choosing the fate of a beloved character extremely distasteful when it requires looking at him as a tool to satisfy a preference. Larian have made the game so that you “submit to the narrative” (“redemptions”) or you are “narratively submitted” (you're a submissive and have no options). It's just a game and, of course, it's perfectly fine to choose the type of romance you're most comfortable with, but not all players choose Ascension because they like submitting to the dominant.

[@amouramarie]

@@Marielle685 yes same! I just want Astarion to have everything he's dreamt of, whether it's a "good" idea or not. The only ick for me is having no choice but needing to be submissive to do it. It feels too much like, 'well obviously if you want him to ascend it must only be because you want him to put a ruby choker around your neck and call you his pet.' I don't. But in the end I'll probably do it anyway which is sadly ironic, since it then becomes a not entirely consensual sexual dynamic due to Tav not having a choice if they want to help him achieve his dream ;.;

[@KxNOxUTA]

Having a soul is not the problem. Some people not being suitable for power due to their type of trauma and type of trauma coping is the probelm. When solid morals aren't there to contain a person, then external circumstances must take on the work or fail to take on the work, with according results. A way how we as society produce abusers, is by looking away in the earliest stages what guidance and limits people need to do well. We look away while ppl rot, not helping them with their protective skills, not helping them through the hard conversations. Down the line we fail them more and more. They have ownership for their choices, always, but we are complicit when they do not have the ability to sort themselves out and we don't uphold the incentives for them to do so either. Astarion's character is a fantastic showcase of that principle. He's morally grey and will go whichever road he can get away with. So he's strongly dependent on his surroundings while wanting to break free when he's in no capacity to do well without a solid community (makes a lot of sense when Baultdur's Gate is a mess. His reaction is sensible 😂)

[@SquirrellySkeptical]

And handily, Tav is just the person to...erm....tell him what to do and make sure he sticks on the straight and narrow like a good little vampire, right?

[@wolficer-66]

I refuse to believe this is a serious comment because wtf is Baultdur's Gate. Also saying an abuser only abuses because of how their partner behaves is wild victim blaming. Being supportive and moral isn't going to stop an actual abuser. And Astarion displays no cyclical pattern of abuse with his LI. If you think Astarion only becomes an abuser because of Tav's actions and inability to be a properly supportive partner, I will kindly ask you to time travel back to the 1950's from wince you came. Holy god 😂

[@iamkittybg3]

@@KxNOxUTA Btw this video is about technical part of the ritual. What does what you wrote have to do with it? I don't understand how you can judge in advance what a person will or won't do based on the fact that they have trauma? In that case, don't let 7000 spawns go, lol. But again, this video is not about this.

[@Nakumiya]

@@wolficer-66 "Baultdur's Gate" 😂 I keep seeing people write Balder and Baulder, but this is really a new one. And yes you are absolutely correct with the victim blaming, what the hell even is that comment?

[@Nakumiya]

@@SquirrellySkeptical why the hells do these people always think we need to keep Astarion on some sort of leash and "make him behave"? If they don't trust him, why are they even in a romance with him? My Tavs trust him and happily help him ascend, because they know no matter what, he'll never hurt them (and hey, look, they are right). You either trust the guy you are dating or you don't (in which case you should break up). From the way this person speaks it sounds like we are supposed to be Astarion's mom lol.