The Best Change Coming in Wrath of the Lich King

In this video, I go over the best change in Wrath of the Lich King. Popular theory crafting and meta videos have not adapted to the new meta in Wrath, one that will be very different from TBC.
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/ zatar_wow

[@Dylan_McCombe]

The community needs more of this. After 4 years of min/max’ing the fun out of the game hopefully we’ll all chill out in Northrend. Pun semi-intended.

[@benlamb4052]

highly doubtful. Wrath will go warmane and be toxic and min max thinking they are realm number 1s

[@astr0n313]

@@benlamb4052 Unfortunately you're right, the warmane toxic mindset is coded into the nowadays community, no longer anyone plays this game chill. I played classic in 2019 and I can say that the playerbase was even more tryhard than Warmane at some point.

[@stonymontana9773]

Won’t happen. Nerds are min maxing and gear checking still for Kara even though the expansion is more or less over. These control freak nerds know nothing else but min maxing .

[@Alexjw1990]

I would argue that’s a major draw of playing classic is the min maxing. You can play retail for an overall casual experience.

[@poopylinklvl1]

@@stonymontana9773 Long gone is the days of raids setup by Ma and Pa where you may kill all the bosses in Karazan over the period of a week and maybe get graced with the chance to kill Nightbane before reset. Ma and Pa may have had to settle for the babies of yesteryear but I ain't carrying shitters who can't function on 20+ year old mechanics get real. If you have a problem with gear checks don't have shit gear.

[@supdevan4315]

My logic is get your buffs covered. After that bring in whatever you want. If you guild is wiping or underperforming because you brough two rets or two ferals than chances are the comp isn't the problem.

[@SAwesome2]

Honestly in Wrath, you could put meme raids together and still beat the content if you know what you are doing. I think in general kids who started playing wow in like 2014 then came back and minmaxed Classic into balls are just going to lose a huge section of their thought process. IE - you wont need every buff. It's not that crazy unless you are pushing into 25 man HC with no gear.

[@william4996]

"Take the player not the class." It's not a set in stone rule but it's very important to keep it in mind. People are terrified of letting an extra class into the raid and like you said in wotlk it's not as big of a deal.

[@Dualities]

it is just KZbinrs thing. we turned content creation and gaming into bussines

[@ophie2865]

""Take the player not the class"" gives me ptsd. The removal of class and spec buffs caused ""take the highest dps meta"", leaving specs and classes benched. It also enabled people to just take whoever they were friends with into raids regardless, stopped the need of them from recruiting someone new, leading to segregated community and causing much MORE damage to the social fabric of the game then LFD ever did.

[@Dualities]

@@ophie2865 people that only look at dps parses are usually not best players anyway. and when things go badlly in raids the dont know how to handle themselves

[@Mazxlol]

I'm just glad buffs are raid wide

[@F14Flier7]

Most, not all ;)

[@Mazxlol]

@@F14Flier7 no more shaman stacking and other various setups per party.

[@fankrys]

This happened to me. I played BM hunter in TBC (i know, like every hunters) and i liked it. My guild pressure to go survival, for the expose weakness buff. Not only did i pulled lower numbers in raid as expected, but outside raid, everything became harder. My pet didn't hold aggro anymore on my farming sessions, couldn't beast wrath to get away from tight spot etc... I try to spec for the raid, and respec to beast once the raid is over, for a while, but that's like 100 golds 3 times a week. I just quit shortly after.

[@idewmeth4203]

You can make 100g in like, a half hour of farming.... I never understood this mentality. People are willing to spend 500g+ on raid consumes a week, but not willing to farm for 30 minutes for respec costs?

[@temporaryname8905]

@@idewmeth4203 So an extra hour and a half each week for tue sake of being able to unspec from a shitty spec you don't even enjoy.. Yeah it's pretty obvious why somebody would rather quit wasting time. This was wrath nobody who was half decent even needed raid consumables. It was all easy.

[@idewmeth4203]

@@temporaryname8905 you're missing the fact that his guild made him go survival, he could have asked for it to rotate between hunters or negotiate/find a guild he could play the spec he wanted. But he chose to quit instead of playing the game an hour and a half more a week or seeking a better situation.

[@MrGlennJohnsen]

Guild should cover your respec costs if you’re playing your «offspec», our guild does.

[@idewmeth4203]

@@MrGlennJohnsen yep this a good point too; that's what a guild bank is for. All those epic boes, and mats and random trash drops that goes to the guild bank should fund guilds things, like covering raid re-specs, special tank sets and supplying cauldrons/repair bots etc

[@TheRosswise]

In Wrath retail back in the day I ran in a very casual guild full of real-life friends. The very definition of nonserious hippy 'mediocrity'. We cleared all the content. The same thing will happen here, and I hope I end up in the same sort of guild. We didn't clear the content first, but we got it eventually.

[@bfdright9529]

I freaking love how your trying to normalize the mega meta min / max raid builds. The comfort pick for me is definitely a crucial part because that person has invested time into that class to optimize it the best they can with the means they have and these mega guilds asking players to re roll. No thanks. Keep up the solid content man loving it!!

[@MrGlennJohnsen]

I’d say covering your basics first, then you have "flex spots" which you can do whatever with. Things like: - 3(4) Paladins to cover all blessings. - 2 or 3 specs to bring Replenishment. (Shadow and Ret bring it throughout the expansion, Survivals eventually go Marksman) - 2 tanks + one offtank. - 4/5 healers + 1/2 who can dual spec heal/caster dps. Like a Shadow Priest, Ele Shaman or Balance Druid. - A Shaman for Heroism/Bloodlust and caster haste. - A Demo Warlock for scaling SP raid buff. There are more, obviously, but I’d say you have 6-7 completely free raid spots to fill with whatever people want to play.

[@tylerprice7486]

Very refreshing to see a creator reminding people that its possible to do this other than the meta comp. During original Wrath our raid team was running a Prot Warrior for Heroic Lich King. Its all viable

[@ryuranzou]

My guild was talking about how much easier it will be with raid comps compared to tbc and I'm just stoked that I can do damage on my ret pally without windfury totem being absolutely required in my party and I don't have to seal twist making me do such a huge burst of damage that I have to wait forever to start dpsing. I'm also stoked that as a prot paladin I won't go oom just because I'm not taking damage from way outgearing the content I'm doing, because my avoidance will give me mana and divine plea will make me want to race through places with only the healer's mana stopping me.

[@brandonkruse6412]

this is why i loved playing a bm hunter in MoP. in 10 man groups, i could bring literally any class buff that we were missing via pets and if we had them all, i could bring a pet with a battle rez or increased phys/spell damage taken in fact, after wrath, running exact comps mattered a lot less with how evenly balanced most specs were.

[@dfg12382]

Wrong. Some speccs outshine others by 10-30% dps. Minmaxing in wrath only means you have to stack less support classes for max support and then stack up on top dps (rogues, fire mage). Minmax comps will have much less spec diversity compared to TBC.

[@brandonkruse6412]

@@dfg12382 clearly you haven’t played wrath then, because spec diversity is far better in wrath than tbc. by ICC, all but 3-4 specs have some sort of necessity to a 25m, yes even speed run guilds. and i said *after* wrath. most specs were fairly even in mop, performance was dependent on the specific fight.

[@gaburierusan8179]

@@brandonkruse6412 yep.in mop you could bring any spec,my guild would not care that much bcs in the end we could kill all bosses. Same in a way in wotlk you can have 3ret ore warr but still there is a bit of restrictions. Some spec's aren't much preferred in wotlk Raids like En.shama

[@dfg12382]

@@brandonkruse6412 Talking out of your ass? Specs that have zero necissity in 25 and can be replaced by better specs without losing support: BM, SV, Arms, Ele, Enhancer, Affli, Destro, Protwar, Arcane, Frostmage, Frost DK, Shadow, Sub, Assa, Holy priest. No unique support and get easily outdpsd by fire mage, combat rogue and fury by t10. Stop talking shit if you're clueless. This video is about wrath, no one cares about mop, it won't even have a classic version.

[@Mr91Jmay]

@@brandonkruse6412 If you didn't have a paladin tank and at least 2x warlocks in MoP you weren't going to have a good time

[@XxKinGzxX100]

Man I miss the days when games weren't played on a spreadsheet

[@alistairbolden6340]

It is really common for people speed running on warmane to just stack melee since in icc with the exception of mages melee do so much more damage but, the important thing to note about that is that they are already geared, its just for clear speed racing. taking a comp that has some people using 2hander and 1hander and a mix of casters is going to be much faster to gear.

[@finalsoulution1367]

In their head they're saying if I want to parse I need an optimal comp. More buffs/optimal raid comp = more damage, more damage = better kill times, better kill times = better dps parses. It's a snowball effect and raid composition is the beginning of the snowball. The closer you kill a boss to the end of your one and only lust the better chance you will have to get a good parse if you're doing a lot of things right. For a min/maxer not having an optimal raid comp is like building a house on a bad foundation. It is nice having more flexibility when creating an optimal comp in Wrath.

[@j.w.2271]

Very good video. My two cents: My favorite healer composition is one of each spec. If you get five good people onto those specs, it's better than anything else. You absolutely don't need to stack any healer spec in WotLK. Especially not the S-tier Holy pala.

[@TrueMakaveli50]

Blood DK tanks will likely be a hybrid blood/frost spec which brings both buffs. (Ap/haste) so you don’t really even need a frost dk for any other reason than that they shred and look cool.

[@matthewb1601]

I'm curious, what's the absolute minimum number of classes & races that you'd need to cover all the buffs & roles needed for a raid? Could you base a raid comp around that skeleton crew, and then people can bring whatever they want to fill the remaining slots?

[@fizin1]

Great video mate. Can we get a link to the raid comp tool, and a shout out to the creator of it. Love how useful and user friendly it looks.

[@Zatar]

wrathraidcomp.com

[@frostburn311]

I was just talking about this very subject today, good summary of how much more flexible Wrath will be for all but the most hardcore guilds

[@dfg12382]

To be fair, unbuffed TBC was piss easy and your comp doesn't matter to clear any of the raids. Minmaxing in Wrath will be even more restrictive/have less class diversity, as you need fewer slots to get all the buffs, then stack up on top dps (and no, dps aren't balanced in Wrath, no idea why people think that).

[@seanmayefskie9525]

@zatar patiently awaiting the loot priority videos for wrath 👀👀

[@w1ndexpfc]

This is exactly the way my guild and eventually my break away team started building rosters during wrath. There is no reason to be super sweaty over the comp/meta. Great video. I may end up running a classic wrath guild as a safe haven from this everyone thinks they are world first competitive.

[@shtroizn]

The very forests of Lordaeron whispered - "BAD COMP"!!! Yup - I hope to find a guild on a fresh server that isn't too rigid. I also hope to be the only Demo-lock on that guild :)

[@dietcokedude]

probably the best composition video I've seen

[@F14Flier7]

So many Dad guilds think they are min / max guilds its annoying...

[@OGSamy]

Its like all the Pro Dads standing around the soccerfield with a beer in their Hand complaining and yelling about the refs decisions and the Attitude of the goal Keeper - bc they would do better

[@bradleyhankus5190]

Zatar you’re the hero we need…all these people pushing all the meta stuff without even putting thought into it

[@liamdalton79]

Excellent video and I totally agree. However, you're giving really tame/easy examples. 1 extra ret/mage? Fine. What if you're in a guild where 4-6 people want to play rogue? A bit of a problem on its own, but manageable. What about 3 mage mains and another person rerolling? What about no one rolling blood DK? What about those rogues being former warlocks and now we have 2 locks rostered? All of these things individually are fine, but what's the straw that breaks the camel's back? How many deviations from the ideal comp are acceptable before your raid is just fucked? This is the case in my guild, and what worries me is people gquitting because either they're getting benched or they're getting very little loot because they're competing with so many others. Because one of those things are sure to happen.

[@WonkyCoconut]

"Most likely to keep the guild in the gear" :) haha. On serious note, love your videos, I completely agree with this

[@fizin1]

I wonder if there is an ingame addon that compliments this. Something to help a raid leader (mostly for pugs) see what buffs are in the group.

[@shad0wfaxx77]

Thank you for this! Thank you!!!!!

[@chriscollins1097]

I didn't play tbc but am coming back for wrath. Did average joe guilds convince themselves they "needed" to be leatherworking for the drums?

[@Zatar]

They nerfed drums before launch

[@Knife1437]

LoL yeah, I got kicked out of my dad guild for bringing this topic up. Not playing the meta LK tier list comp was questioning the leadership.

[@stephenyang1255]

Who in this group comp should be putting up armour reduction (sunder rebuff)?

[@Davidhenry1210]

Remember the reason they gave some classes the same buffs was to make it super easy to get them and to make it easier to fill a group. Wrath was targeted at non mmo players to introduce them to mmos. It the most casual friendly of all classic. 25 man super optimal is only needed if you feel you like you want it.

[@devonherron9935]

You’re pretty spot on about this but you probably should have talked a little more about melee versus ranged. 2 rets, 3 dks, 1 feral, 3 rogues, 2 warrs, 2 spellhance… oh wait that’s 13 melee. A lot of casual guilds have an LOT of people wanting to play melee. I am going to have to have a talk with my guild telling people “if you like ranged, play ANY ranged” and I suspect a lot of other guilds will be in the same boat

[@Applestoroger]

With 3pc tier 2 I can battle shout harder than anyone else by 38 ap, then switch pieces off and it stays up for 6 mins

[@doctordemento965]

This was why wrath was the best of the classic games. You just covered the buffs and debuffs and if someone swapped classes...there was always an alternative way to cover a buff. Like many have said...if you can't clear the content...it's probably not the comp anyway. I HOPE for ONCE people stop meta min-max nonsense and just play for FUN. Guides are fine...but sometimes a min/max spec leaves a lot to be desired in other ways. They keep talking about making the game harder lmao. HERE is your opportunity... play the game YOUR way.

[@Trefort90]

I'm wondering, what class would you recommend if I want to have an alt that would be used as a pumper for GDKPs? According to your video, I'd say the rogue could be fine since there aren't so many rogues in TBC PvE.

[@Zatar]

Rogue will be very popular. If affliction warlock bugs are fixed that is probably your best bet, a lot of groups want to stack warlock.

[@Trefort90]

@@Zatar I'm sure rogue are going to be more popular than in TBC, but generally speaking, I don't think that many ppl will reroll them. Since raids want to stack locks, it's probably the sure bet. The problem is that a lock seems to be extremely boring to me and I hate dealing with pets. I've been playing WoW since 2005 and never played a warlock :D

[@Trefort90]

@@Deno_7_ Honestly, when it comes to GDKP runs, I'd prefer to press 1 button and be the top dps and get some extra G for the performance :D My main char for guild runs is gonna be ele shammy.

[@bradleyhankus5190]

@@Trefort90 lol that’s one for the books press a button get a pat on the back with extra gold…

[@Trefort90]

@@bradleyhankus5190 Are you talking about a rogue or the ele?

[@wotlklvl80]

another big thing is people stick to mains because they have reps/mounts/achievements/discovery etc... if you're asking me to re roll im basically a raid bot, im there to provide the "buff" or whatever for your raid team to be "optimal." My main is a warrior and Im exalted with almost everything and I have all my vanity, mounts (which cost a lot of raw gold even from vendors), and pets. Im much LESS inclined to just give all that up because you want 4 warlocks

[@MarshallYuan323]

can you share the link of this tool in your video? thx

[@QoStoOds]

Competency over composition (once you get all the buffs)

[@whoopsie321]

fuq the meta but yeah im just glad its not as restrictive like TBC not being in the pumper group.

[@Zionith]

I'm the only disc priest for my wrath guild, and I'm super happy about that

[@Allenschezar4890]

interesting. But why would you ever run an arms and a combat in a "meta" comp? that seems so redundant. You could either let the combat switch to assa or the arms switch to fury.

[@Zatar]

The whole point of the video is that you don’t have to play the exact meta and you will be fine. In this case arms is commonly considered better than fury early game, and assassination / combat are very close with combat often being more popular due being more fun.

[@Allenschezar4890]

​@@Zatar Yes i got that. I know meta is not necessary and so on but i mentioned the meta comp since this comp always looks for all benefits. And I just wondered about that fact since i know you normally look for either arms or combat to bring the physical % debuff. Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions but thanks for explaining.

[@Zatar]

No problem

[@zoshnel]

Long as you don’t have more than one dps warrior before togc. Only need one arms to sunder and provide buff

[@IceTax69]

The duality of classic wow community, saying how easy the raids are and having to minmax their comps to be able to do them and refusing to divert from the meta.

[@Lee-jc1gb]

Take the player not the class/spec is such a bigger thing in wrath. Back in original wrath I was doing LoD with absolutely ridiculous compositions. You aren’t going to break any records, and it may be a bit more difficult, but you can still get it done no problem whatsoever.

[@bigpoopies789]

Great video

[@dirtnap9641]

The 3 things that are closest to a NEED are, 1) a prot pally OR DK tank, 2) range/melee balance 3) Gear/drop splits. You could also consider bloodlust and battle res, but thats spread across 6 possible specs

[@dubachatron4094]

Demo lock is also a big deal

[@joelswatten9611]

@@dubachatron4094 Exactly 💯

[@paulwalther5237]

You seemed to still really want a variety of classes. At the beginning of the video I was thinking you were arguing pretty much any comp would work but it seems just a few spots out of the ordinary.

[@Buro11]

You are 100% right but ppl will still do everything they can to min max the fun out of the game.

[@54tisfaction]

The voice of reason.

[@Bumbum_Inspector]

I'm so excited to not get a raid spot for an entire expansion again on my prot warrior.

[@marcrenshaw3444]

it was super frustrating playing a prot warrior first time round. I always had a spot and cleared it all but just having to do more work for worse results was not fun. I would change to DK or pally as they are much more fun to play. Good luck if you do stay warrior, it will be hard work but you can get all the content down

[@Lingura123]

Important note: You cannot replace actual people as easily as you do in WRC. Goof around and your raid comp will consist of you, the GM and your friends, who are already quietly looking for a new guild.

[@dubachatron4094]

WRC?

[@Lingura123]

@@dubachatron4094 WrathRaidComp

[@connorkenney6938]

2h frost DK for the memes

[@ibowlhammer]

Another thing people are overblowing is professions. Everyone wants to run engineering. It's not necessary.

[@Zatar]

Engineering is fun though. Rocket boots are sick.

[@alistairbolden6340]

I dont think any guild will take affliction warlocks snap shotting is not a thing on the wotlk classic ptr. Its only a thing on warmane because of its terrible scripting. You can ofc take 1-2 but its far from good.

[@WoWUndad]

Snapshotting was a thing in wotlk if anything blizz is worse than private servers

[@Dualities]

shadow priest dots can crit now

[@thewiseegg]

Good video

[@piffyplays]

Whats the website for this raid comping?

[@Zatar]

wrathraidcomp.com/

[@john-xo9mg]

That comment alone sums it all up , Let people play what they want..

[@guudepuder]

4:34 and i had to stop the video. I raided with my ret and in that guild they had 4coh priests 1druid and 1holy paladin and only 2schami in total in the raid and i can say it sucks! On my other char with which i raid the have 2schamis, 2druids and 2priests and a total of 4 to 6 schamis in their raid and alot of dmg gets better dealt with. I admit that "the best raid compt" in theory is not nessecary the best for your guid, but i have my doubts if my guild want to heal in wrath five cohpriests and 1 druid. I think you need a clear goal to aim for withh your raid and build the comp in that way, but i know that without any holypalas our raid will not be able to do "hardmodes" and achivemnts

[@JB-wf8et]

These streamers were a hot topic on the blizzard live blog. Everyone will be upset when you can't raid because dk and pally will be oversaturated. So they are already talking about buffing classes and specs to counter those thoughts.

[@Muddyowns]

3 DKs, bruh?!

[@Davidhenry1210]

Before you guys doubt his words. Remember how many "meta" guilds ssc and tk weeded out.

[@Tsubaki189]

No spot for ele sham? :c

[@soymilkdrinker2514]

U blind?

[@GameDevMadeEasy]

I'm gonna continue to be a destro lock, because I am sick of hearing people say that they aren't high dps compared to Afflic spec. Meanwhile, most of them have no idea just how much of a pain it is to play Afflic well.

[@WoWUndad]

Ya keeping up ua and agony every 20 seconds is so difficult

[@GameDevMadeEasy]

@@WoWUndad Well, not just agony. Snapshotting dots, not clipping dots and keeping up the rotation.

[@ryananderson586]

I feel like a lot of Ret paladins are going to be sad when wrath hits. Anything more than 2 is just bunk.

[@gaburierusan8179]

Nah my Guild will run this sht with 7 ret pali and nothing will change

[@ljf1963]

Elemental is gonna be BIG. Watch.

[@aadabimfmkad6041]

dude shhhh pls.

[@EB-bl6cc]

Ele is good in pre-bis/early T7 but then gets outpaced by other specs as time goes on, and by ulduar you're left in the dust bc ele doesn't scale worth a damn (which is actually very similar to how ele is in TBC). There's only 1 fight in ulduar where ele is good: General Vezax.

[@aadabimfmkad6041]

@@EB-bl6cc Not exactly true. Maybe you have heard this from youtubers/ poeple with lots of time on pserver (where scripting in many cases is VASTLY different) The changes to fire elemental totem not resetting where as other classes DPS cds do will probably be the biggest hurt in dps for ele. (considering as it is like 10-15% of our dmg currently on many nax fights). I'm not sure why people are super against ELE but it goes from like top 3 dps in p1/p2 to by the time ur in ICC ur still in the middle of the pack. Defs worth doing a bit more research before you talk so harshly in black and whites such as 'doesnt scale worth a damn'. I will also finish this comment by saying it has far and away the LEAST amount of min/maxing research done into pushing it to the limits. Thanks for your comment and hope you have a lovely day.

[@EB-bl6cc]

​@@aadabimfmkad6041 what additional research do I need to do? I've played Wrath and seen it with my own eyes. Also it's pretty easy to look up parses/logs that prove everything I've said. Also also, there's way less to min/max with Ele than with most specs because it's an incredibly simple spec. There's not much to build on, and nothing additonal to "figure out", unlike with something newer and far (far) more complex like spellhance. Btw ele is never top 3 dps in the whole expansion other than before raiding starts, even somewhat early days patchwerk if everyone is equally geared/skilled you will be 5th at best.

[@aadabimfmkad6041]

@@EB-bl6cc 'far more complex like spellhance' LMAO thats just a spell damage weapon and flametongue on normal enhance. Thank god you put this part early in ur replay so i dont have to read the rest and respond seriously. also if ya wanna talk about scaling.... u will stop using spellhance in phase2

[@nicolaevergu3008]

For wrath you will be need 2 pala healers and gg

[@jiripekny3905]

Its going to be shit anyways. I can play on Warmane and dont have to deal with GDKPs as well.

[@doncorleone1720]

smhw i think the same

[@EB-bl6cc]

I'm on warmane right now as well and while there's some issues, it's much much better than what classic wrath will be. We have content which is buffed a good amount so it's actually fun (whereas there is little to no buffs in wrath class content, you will be clearing everything first week in blues). If you want another challenge they have the weekly mythic dungeon (basically a 5 man raid) that is sometimes pretty challenging. People are going to be bored after a few weeks in wrath classic when they realize everything is a complete faceroll joke

[@dflowers6771]

well said.. dont be a meta slave if you arent in a top 5% guild

[@connor3198]

People that try to always be optimal and always play the meta ruin the game. The content is easy. Play whatever you like and take whoever, you'll still clear it all.

[@Yu10l10]

I always laugh at ppl who make guides as to the setups on raids, come to the aussie server, lmao we can barely get 25 players, let alone pick and choose. in progression we were averaging 20 players a week vs 25.

[@bruzer_8465]

GG

[@Salu7an]

Tank - DK and Pal Heal - Pal Pal DIsc Sham Dru Melee - Combat Cat UDK Pal Pal Fury Fury Firy (or combat or frost or enh) Range - MM Shad Shad Shad Balance Fire Fire Demon Afli + 1 slot (fire afli balance)

[@vanidar21]

people are perma sleeping on MM hunter, its gonna outperform survival

[@vanidar21]

and to your point saying "well, I dont want to play MM, I want to play Surv". Sure, do what you want. For myself, if Im not trying to min max the game, im not having fun. If you want to play suboptimal stuff, just for the fun, go to FF 14 or smth.

[@MrFeige1]

I think out of all dps 70% will be melee dps

[@Zatar]

Melee is more popular, you just have to be careful in your guild that it is not too lopsided, because gearing will be a pain if everyone is physical dps.

[@MrFeige1]

@@Zatar just invite 5 spellhance shamans they will take the spellpower gear haha 😂

[@travisolexa3074]

"Take the player, not the class" logic by blizzard honestly made things worse than TBC in some ways. If you had 2 classes that brought the same buffs but one did 20% more damage, why would you take the weaker one?

[@Zatar]

Part of that expression means you bring the better player. You would take the more skilled player who does mechanics right, and they can outperform someone on a class that should in theory do more damage.

[@travisolexa3074]

@@Zatar Yah, I really never saw that in classic so far lol

[@gaburierusan8179]

@@Zatar true. I would outperform with my frost dk with 5.4 k gs many rets and other dk with 5.9 or 6 k gs

[@gaburierusan8179]

@@travisolexa3074 bcs till now the raids have been a joke. Wait till Ulduars come out and the noobs will cry out for nerf

[@n.s.2017]

Naxx is too easy for meta raid comps

[@dirtnap9641]

Warriors are absolutely fine as tank and dps

[@MoistLlama69]

imagine trying to get the perfect comp and forgetting you are playing a video game.

[@faveli6369]

You can’t make unrealistic rosters like this and expect to not piss people off come ulduar25. When substitutes have to be made and you realize certain things are needed for hardmodes

[@Vaelin69]

To be fair though, ele shaman, and enhance later on are just plain dead weight. I have cleared heroic 25 man LK with both at the same time, but it asks so much more from the others in your raid. Ele isn't particularly fun and interactive, and it brings literally zero unique niche uses.IMHO it just has no place in raids.

[@connor3198]

You could literally take someone who loves Frost Mage into a raid and you will still be fine despite it being probably the worst dps in the expansion for pve.

[@dfg12382]

To me, this is one of the worst changes in Wrath. Don't get it wrong, if you're minmaxing your comp it is even more restricted. Fire mages, combat rogues WILL outdps survival, eles, warlocks by 10 to even 30%. Only needing 5-10 slots to get max support means you only focus on the last metric (dps) for the other 15 slots. Arms warrior can be replaced by fury, feral, which deal way more dps. BM, survival, arcane all get replaced by retri support, no incentive to bring any of that. If you think minmax setups will be less restricitve, you don't understand what minmax is. In fact there will be much less diversity compared to TBC. If you don't care about comps, there's literally no difference to TBC.

[@Dualities]

diversity will be huge since every class is good

[@dfg12382]

@@Dualities You either care about minmaxing or you don't. If you minmax, it's less diversity as you need less specs to get all buffs, then stack the biggest dps (rogue, mage, later fury). If you don't care about minmaxing, it's the exact same as in TBC.

[@Zatar]

In the non min max comp example, it is much easier in wrath to recruit and incorporate new members due to being able to be much more flexible with class and spec options.

[@Dualities]

@@dfg12382 having fun is also an important factor. those that tend to have fun can play better.. it is really all about experience and knowing counters. that why i kinda hate this wolk classic youtuber fiesco and wotlk classic closed beta. beta should be about bug fixing not who can make money first. yeha i love the content but this constant chase for making content and turning cotnent into a bussines... many dont realize how many negatives effects are there... youtube is bad for young mental health, content creators are not geniue... anyway... I think it comes down to knowing your class too and afcors gear... it is a number game after all...

[@Dualities]

@@Zatar in short, when every class is op everything is baalnced xd.. it is about experience, counters, playing class to full potnetial and gear afcors... it is a number game after all

[@soymilkdrinker2514]

Yes but fury warriors wont do as much dmg as other classes

[@Zatar]

Late game they are very strong. Also, like I mentioned throughout the video, you bring the player not the class, a good fury will out dps a bad dk.

[@soymilkdrinker2514]

@@Zatar i believe most people are to slow to play warrior perfectly. We had 2 warriors in our dad guild in tbc and they played like shit. When we asked them why they dont perform they said they are out of that age where they can perform warrior perfectly. They are both in their mid 30s. To me this is a pathetic excuse

[@Zatar]

I mean that is a pretty big generalization based on a pretty specific situation. Warrior is not really even fast paced.

[@doncorleone1720]

@@Zatar ohhh dude it fucking is when you have 6.4 GS as a fury warrior lmao.

[@vb3819]

Arms + combat makes no sense, they provide the same debuff. either the warrior goes fury or the combat rogue goes assassination

[@Zatar]

The whole point of the video is that your rogues / warriors can play whichever spec they prefer and it is fine.

[@easytokillme9910]

I don't know what community you're talking about not adapting but I mean everybody that I know and play with know all of this stuff already.

[@josephtheisii9891]

/join Trade or /join LFG and tell me you don't see it. If you don't, you're blind lol

[@stonymontana9773]

@@josephtheisii9891 lol these guys must play on dead servers. I play on bene and seeing this everyday is nauseating for a 18 yo game 😂

[@lucianalliancestargate6475]

Meta is for the top 1k guilds and race for word first.