Phase 1 Loot Prio for Wrath of the Lich King Classic

[@Zatar]

If you guys have an questions feel free to ask here or over on my stream if I am live at www.twitch.tv/zatar_wow Updates: - I forgot to add the wands: Healing priests can use multiple mp5 wands. Plague igniter is best used by spriest. Archlich (10 man) and Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians are interchangeable depending on if you need hit. Will get them in the document later. Updated the Bis neck list slightly, moving ret down a bit and making sure to include feral and cat.

[@WiseFool888]

Can you do a disc phase 1 bis list and guide for pve?

[@Preacher_.]

Goated 🐐

[@Zatar]

I don’t play disc myself, I actually like to play holy on my priest. www.wowhead.com/wotlk/guides/discipline-priest-healer-best-in-slot-gear-phase-1 here is a bis list

[@Zatar]

Check description

[@elie195]

seems like there's no mention of feral DPS in the heroic key to the focusing iris discussion

[@stemina32]

Amazing work ! Anything for phase 2 by any chance?

[@milescook922]

I have fallen asleep to this video 3 nights in a row, still can’t remember anything when I wake up

[@qwerty8601]

Howdy, will you be creating an updated list for phase2

[@Awkamess]

phase 2 soon? :)

[@omarlozano9374]

Feels like you’re kind of underestimating the difference between Crude Discolored and Frosted Adjoit gloves for Ret. When fully buffed it basically comes down to 15 ap and 15 hit (if it’s all being utilized) vs 10 crit rating and 63 agi. That’s a shit ton of crit for what basically amounts to 1 dps worth of ap and hit that’ll more likely than not put you over the cap.

[@mrk10024]

Great guide, Phase 2 soon?

[@supermanthegod1785]

I liked the way the sheet was organized before where it had each boss and what that boss dropped with priority listed. It was nice to flip through it as we went through the raid.

[@Zatar]

Maybe that is better, when I did it that way I got a lot of feedback to change it so a melee could only hear about melee loot.

[@johanlahti84]

Agree. Old format was better. Let the melee buggers learn something about others gear too!

[@VinnyGreeley]

I don't even play wow but I love watching this dude's tier lists or w/e

[@Defenestrationed]

ASMR : WoW tier lists

[@Qwertyfied18]

Mans back!!! thank god

[@Psycrow142]

Ulduar loot prio when ?

[@william4996]

Could you make more gear rogue prio so I can send this to my guild and get full bis? Thanks in advance!

[@Preacher_.]

You have no idea how much time you just collectively saved all of us "Semi-Hardcore" boomer guild's.

[@brianmorin]

Heritage vs Boundless Ambition seems backwards (40:58) Death Knight's threat abilities are effected by (spell) hit, hence they want the +hit Paladin's threat abilities (other than Consecration and HS) are effected by expertise

[@Zatar]

That is one way to look at it, my prio was based on giving heritage to Paladin because they were last on the KT neck. Expertise is still good for dk, because death strike not hitting is rough. Hit is good for Paladin as it affects their spells: judgment, avengers shield, Holy wrath, and their attacks.

[@brianmorin]

@@Zatar Judgement tests against melee hit. Holy Wrath/Consecration/HS is mostly relevant against trash where you're not spell hit testing against +3 levels. For single target ShotR/HotR/SoV put in most of the work and they're all melee hit checks. Stop shilling for classes you main ;-)

[@Zatar]

@@brianmorin correct me if I am wrong, but judgment can’t be dodged. I was just comparing expertise vs hit. Pally reaches 26 expertise very fast due to their glyph. After that hit is better for them up to 8%

[@brianmorin]

@@Zatar It says miss in the combat log. It tests against melee hit (dodge/expertise) under the hood. Just like HotR and ShotR

[@Zatar]

Melee hit has nothing to do with dodge and expertise. It is called melee hit because the hit rating calculation is different for spells vs physical hits.

[@bigmike70]

7:52 you say the holy paladin 4 set is just decent, but because of the way the cost reduction works with glyph of seal of wisdom and Libram of Renewal, it's actually massive for holy paladin and is very important for them to be able to sustain their mana.

[@Fleato]

yeah like it's less relevant now, but will 100000% be a must have for ulduar prog.

[@srnybreak]

hi, please can you do same video for phase 2? :)

[@BlavBoySS]

Just wanted to ask about the chestguard of the recluse from maly as a ret pally, I was in a raid where a enhance shaman said that chest piece was his bis and a Ret pally has no place in rolling for it. Wondering what your thoughts are on that since it looks like you didn’t even list enhance shaman for that item

[@Zatar]

Definitely better for ret, because enhance can really easily get a 226 helmet, and besides that they want 4 set. Even ret would be very low priority, though.

[@BlavBoySS]

@@Zatar that was my thought also. I didn’t really mind giving it up since ret is my off spec anyway. Technically I shouldn’t have even been rolling for it in the first place since it was a pug. Also I want the 4 piece tier set from the chest with 226 helm from saph

[@appo8557]

Thanks for your content man, saves alot of time! What site do you use to sim?

[@Zatar]

wowsims.github.io/wotlk/ has a bunch of the sims. There are a few more I used, mostly on there.

[@foodiejustin557]

Cool video! Thanks for all the valuable information Zatar

[@anders2999]

Dude, holy paladin belt, the emblem one is BiS.

[@goontoagoblinlol]

A couple of the cat feral bis items listed were wrong, specifically the shoulders and wrist. Just a heads up

[@Zatar]

I mentioned during, but the wrists are interchangeable. One has hit, one doesn’t

[@tableslam]

I was interested to see where you were gonna rank Feral DPS prio for Favor of the Dragon Queen but it's not even on there

[@Zatar]

I added them, I just had bear. They gain about as much dmg as most, and less than hunter and warrior.

[@leaf8336]

is there a spread sheet version of this somewhere?

[@Zatar]

Just what I have in the description. You can search by name to look for specific items.

[@Davidbruun]

Unfortunately you are very misinformed about Holy Paladin set. 2 set is not important, but 4 set is mandatory, even prioritizing ilvl 200 to get it it over better gear. This is because of Holy Light is the go to healing ability.

[@JMockler445]

Did i miss something or were there no wands?

[@Zatar]

You are completely right. Healing priests can use multiple mp5 wands. Plague igniter is best used by spriest. Archlich (10 man) and Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians are interchangeable depending on if you need hit.

[@Zonder279]

Awesome video, its clear how much work you put into this!

[@ЮраПрудской]

please put item names into a document so that it can be searched with ctrl+f

[@maloiik]

very very helpful video thanks. one observation maybe for the future: avoid that jankiness of movement in going back and forth so fast when you're showing something, it's really difficult to follow

[@jwalker117]

Do you know how much of this P1 gear will carry over to be P2 BiS for any class? You made mention of Illustration and also Dying Curse. Just wondering if there are any other items to make specific note of?

[@Zatar]

Very few items. Boundless ambition for prot warrior and pennant cloak for rsham / hpal as well as casters that don’t need hit.

[@WonkyCoconut]

I'm going 4/5 tier on warrior because looks cool :)

[@shortbow5875]

The amount of shamans who tell me Angry dread is an enh item and I shouldn’t roll on it as a frost dk piss me off. It’s literally my bis.

[@implodingfruitz8093]

Tell those shamans they need to be using a spellpower mainhand or they are throwing. Wraith strike and the stray are enhance bis

[@neal9700]

You had ele listed twice for dying curse (and 2 very different prios).

[@Zatar]

Fixed, ty. They don’t gain as much as other classes. They also don’t need tier bonuses, so it is easy for them to move around hit.

[@gorefuzz6273]

@@Zatar like you said though, that trinket is all about the proc.

[@Zatar]

Yeah the proc is not as good for them relative to an item like embrace of the spider. Other classes see higher dps increases.

[@gorefuzz6273]

@@Zatar in my research Embrace of the Spider and Dying Curse are Elemental BiS for phase 1.

[@gorefuzz6273]

Also, you have the wrong shoulders for Elemental BiS Mantle of the Eternal Sentinel sims higher than Mantle of the Corrupted.

[@tylerfloyd1822]

No rogue spec is going to use any trinkets but DMCG and MoT, basically count them out of every trinket as the next best is 100 dps loss

[@Zatar]

Fury sims pretty close for combat especially.

[@tylerfloyd1822]

@@Zatar although I agree it's the closest at only a 35~ loss, the ease of access to the trinkets that are true bis for them outside of raids I would say puts them out of the conversation.

[@Zatar]

Not everyone would consider a 15-20k gold trinket easy to access.

[@REDLiiNE18]

Dps dk not listed on quest neck?

[@Shaklor]

DK like str a lot. Hard to prio them

[@nickzand7597]

U put in a ton of work. Ty

[@L3mings]

Awesome video. Commenting for the algo. 👍

[@ryananderson586]

All my fellow unholy dw players are dying watching this. You’d never give Last laugh to a tank over dw unholy. Among many other gripes just literally don’t humor anyone playing 2h unholy l.

[@Zatar]

You definitely should give it to prot warrior first. It depends on how many frost dks and unholy dw dks you have, but angry dread sims close to last laugh for unholy dw.

[@snorresnorre123]

@@Zatar have you taken in to account that Angry dread is a slow wepon and therefor changes the rotation for bloodboil/death strike? or is this straight up just simmed in same setup vs each other?

[@Zatar]

Even if you play the death and decay version with both weapons, they sim the same. Obviously the slow weapon would do better with scourge strike.

[@snorresnorre123]

@@Zatar Well, slow wepons change your dps rotation outside death and decay aswell seing as you will then prio your blood runes on BS instead of bloodboil, and I was just wondering if this was accounted for in the simulation.

[@khcstewie]

according to this video most top contested plate items should go to ret

[@johanlahti84]

Tank gear, plate. Yeah where is the leather gear for bears?

[@Zatar]

I talked about it with physical dps gear, because that is who they compete with on leather.

[@johanlahti84]

@@Zatar yeah kept watching and there it was! :)

[@austinhensley6553]

dying curse "ele uses this item better than ele" sums up ele shaman in a nutshell

[@TheJarnell_J]

I'm ready!

[@Fleato]

im say it, a couple items here like have to be wrong, like fury of five flights, assassination rogue low prio for crit so mirror of truth is pretty bad for them where as ret loves crit mirror isn't great but still they arent hurting with it in place for fury.... i play ret, so im only harming myself here.

[@Zatar]

Mirror is bis for rogue and not ret if you check bis lists.

[@Ashanthala]

Thanks

[@Kevin-uj4uu]

i think a good idea for a video is what pve items are useful for pvp

[@Otaconsps]

Volume so low

[@vanidar21]

idk man, according to you the most stacked class (affli lock) are at the back of the line for almost all items. Always gear your stacks first IMO.

[@Zatar]

They can get almost all the contested cloth, weapons and they get tier as high prio.

[@Skadonya]

I truly love your guides, and appreciate all the work you do, but why did you stop using that great website and do a google doc?? It's hard to tell where I need to go to put notes in TMB because some items don't even show what instance they are from, there isn't any order/rhyme or reason in the listing beyond seperating out Tanks, Casters, DPS... >.

[@Zatar]

The old website I made myself. I did not update it for wrath , and don’t know of a suitable replacement. The items are ordered by slot if that helps.

[@markmichael6529]

Love these videos tbh

[@JagoSevatar88]

Love the videos but some of your positions for Ret are strange. For Obsidian Greathelm Ret should be second behind FDK because our 2 piece tier set up is considerably better than our 4 piece set up. Shoulderguards of the Undaunted are not great at all, Haste is a pretty bad stat for Ret nowadays, the Upstanding Shoulders are far better with a ton of crit, AP and a socket. Undiminished Breastplate is weird, maybe as a place holder but that is likely going to catapult us past hit cap if a Ret has their pre raid bis already especially as a Human or Dwarf using Titansteel Destroyer. We will just keep our 10m tier chest from badges to keep our 2p bonus. Chestguard of the Recluse is a straight up trap drop for Ret, do not loot this to your Pallies. No point in taking Crude Discolored Battlegrips, just a ton of hit and would likely be breaking our 2set until we get Frosted Adroit or Tier Gloves. Putting Rogues above Ret when Assassination doesn't use Frosted and Combat only uses them over their 4p setup as a very slight upgrade seems kind of odd. Rogues in exchange should be above Ret on either Fury or Leggings of the Honored. Girdle of Chivalry and Belt of the Tortured are within 10dps of each other. Stalk Skin Belt is our bis non hit option as well and most of us will be coming from the badge belt which already doesn't have hit. You have us very low on the first two belts we use and not even on Stalk Skin. Leggings of Honor is a yuuuuge item so glad to see you put us up there on a 226 piece. Iron Spring Jumpers are Hit and Armor Pen... not sure how those are "tied bis for Ret" considering how both are likely to be dead stats at this point. We do not want those. We want Melancholy (purely because of ilvl and crit even with the ArP) or the Dawnwalkers for Hit off of Anub. Failing that we will use Valor boots. Fool's Trial/Imprisoned Vassals placement is fine leaning towards the former to maintain Hit. I'd put us higher up for Ruthlessness and take us off of Surge Needle entirely. Surge Needle is too good and we only use it in the 4p set up which to reiterate is inferior. It pains me to say this as a Ret but I don't think we should be top for Fury. It's amazing for us sure but it's a huge trinket that's very contested and we just don't pump as hard as some of the other specs. Greatness is so incredibly strong for us and Bandit's Insignia off Sapphiron is like ~20 dps behind it with way less contention. Any serious Ret should be getting their Greatness and getting handed the first Bandit's. I think putting either Warrior spec above Ret for Betrayer is silly, Ret is going to be bringing way more to the Raid in phase 1. They do way more trash/cleave damage and are playing a hybrid with a billion buffs/debuffs. Maybe Arms but Fury? And Fury wants 2 of the damn things. I feel like Fury should be higher up on the "runner up" weapons like Inevitable Defeat or Death's Bite simply because they want the same amount of 226 items as everyone else AND want 2 2h weapons. Cryptfiend's Bite is also not good for Ret, neither is Inevitable Defeat. Jawbone is our runner up under Betrayer with Arma/Death's Bite as back ups/hit options.

[@Zatar]

In regards to specific items I used the ret sim to determine how big an upgrade was, and how close an item was to bis. Fury is only true bis for ret. For Betrayer, ret just gains way less from the upgrade according to the sims. This would make sense because warriors like crit more and ret loves strength.

[@JagoSevatar88]

@@Zatar if you're going off of pure sim data without context I feel like you should state that or you did and maybe I missed. You have a good rep and do your research but some less informed LC's may take this data at face value and start shooting out gear willy nilly thinking they have your knowledge to fall back on.

[@Zatar]

I think bis lists + sim is the best info we have

[@boarderz8275]

Lol the ret cope is strong with this one. Lolret

[@boarderz8275]

@@JagoSevatar88 you want to go off feelscraft over Sims? Lol

[@Nonxsn]

Im not playing wrath but mega thanks for all the content. Really helped me a LOT, during TBC. GL in everything mate ! (unsubbing lmao)

[@achromatic8637]

lmfao nerd

[@RichieBenno]

maybe the caster staffs are so shit because they get a better enchant so sorta balances it a bit.

[@Zatar]

No, even accounting for the enchant they are much worse than 1 hander.

[@Shaklor]

It’s like 18 sp enchant vs 70 odd from offhand.

[@RichieBenno]

@@Shaklor yeah I forget the offhand as well, staffs all trash

[@bigairbrucey]

I know videos like this take a lot of time to make but ...you picked the worst day to release it...most classic players are going to be busy for the next 72 hours.

[@GamingDualities]

Need or greed. If your guild has loot prio disscusion better not be part of it. This can divide guild very quickly. U gonna get hate anyway if u roll on something u dont need or someone else needs it more. Most wotlk gear will be upgrade for anybody anyway

[@boarderz8275]

That's a good way to make sure everyone in the raid puts in the bare minimum effort every week.

[@jamesbyrd3740]

smourne is blood dk prio. bis for 2 dk specs!

[@lvsoad22]

It’s bis for any spec that can use it lmao. And most guilds will prio it to a pumper warrior but it’s more about the player rather than the class.

[@braydon62509]

Big agree we're giving it to our blood dk

[@cococock2418]

This isn’t tbc, player over class. Ret’s one spec benefits more from it more dps gain wise than any other class in game.

[@boarderz8275]

@@cococock2418 lolret cope and seethe, it's going to me as a fury warrior then I'll take your second bis in my offhand before you too.