the characters Stranger Things failed | S4 analysis

[@FKA91]

The fact that Will has no dialogue in the first episode outside of "It's ok El!😥" when it's an episode that reintroduces everyone, says a lot about his character this season. We learned almost nothing about Will's high school experience or even how he likes/dislikes Cali. He has no personality outside of being nice and suffering in silence. And he deserves better.

[@jpz2009]

Everything we do get is in "blink and you'll miss it" Easter eggs. Don't they think they should've made it even more apparent that he's struggling with his sexuality/identity, instead of throwing in a Harvey Milk reference??

[@DLxxx]

Yeah, the writers have repeatedly squandered every chance they had to make Will a multifaceted character. Most fans were legitimately saying that if they had nothing for him by SEASON 4, then they should've just written him out altogether. At least that way the character wouldn't rot in the background. And the focus the Duffers claim the story will have on him in S5 is likely just a result of backlash too. After it was discovered that they straight up forgot Will's birthday, and people accused them of not caring about the character, THAT'S when they suddenly went like "oh don't worry! He's gonna have a big focus in S5!" Only to later reveal that the outline of S5 was already made alongside S4's, but they started rewriting it in response to criticism. So odds are, Will WASN'T going to have much in S5 either.

[@m.donez8]

@@DLxxx Yes, you’re so spot on. It’s sad to see they neglected one of the most integral characters in the entire series!

[@juonithzramos1089]

Agreed; I'm fine with his silent suffering over coming to terms w/ his sexuality, but I think his outer story should have been his relationship with El. They're siblings now, and family means the world to Will (or at least has in the past) and I think their journey (El and Will's) should have been about their new family dynamic. THAT should have been the issue that propels Mike and El and Will to discuss/take on their new dynamic. Will and El are close now, Mike doesn't know where he fits in.

[@zee-kat]

@@DLxxx outline ≠ entire script

[@lovefromwonderland]

I feel like Mike lacks a lot of agency outside of El. Like if they were not dating, what would make him interesting? He really could’ve been shown as a guy who highly values his friendship but I’m not even sure of that. That kinda sucks.

[@kayu.]

its probably shows that their relationship is falling apart it happens alot with first relationships. mike is also kinda queer coded that could also be the reason but i aint really sure about that. hoping that they redeem mike in s5 he was kinda boring this season.

[@hiimexist7276]

@@kayu. I rlly hope they explore the queer coding stuff next season, cuz I feel like he’s suppressing a lot of his true feelings

[@anaivanic7303]

The fact that he's gay and knew it since Snowball. That's what makes him interesting.

[@DaveyFish1]

Oh my god, these comments lmao

[@DaveyFish1]

Oh my god, these comments lmao

[@prestonrush8014]

I have some tips for the Duffer Brothers #1 STOP MAKING MORE CHARACTERS!!!! #2 STOP MAKING MORE CHARACTERS!!!! #3 STOP MAKING MORE CHARACTERS!!!!

[@kayu.]

thank god they wont be adding new characters in s5

[@snowpoler]

And then #4 Stop fake-killing important characters off and protecting them from being written off. Otherwise the stakes feel hella low when they really should not be, and the characters feel invincible when they really shouldn't be.

[@prestonrush8014]

@@kayu. Probably. They directors and stuff like that said "They'll try not to add new characters."

[@prestonrush8014]

@@snowpoler Exactly.

[@justnahayo8490]

They said there isn’t going to be any new characters in S5

[@clemenIemon]

the whole stancy thing with eddie and robin supporting it was so disrespectful. them trying to push stancy together because jonathan and nancy were struggling just left a bad taste in my mouth

[@cecilia929]

I agree. I also have to wonder if they know she is still dating Jonathan.

[@clemenIemon]

@@cecilia929 robin definitely knew bc i think nancy talked about her and jonathan having problems when they were looking through the news articles

[@cecilia929]

@clem oh yeah she did! I haven't watch in a while. That's definitely not cool.

[@Jadisons]

Disrespectful to Jancy because they're literally still together, and disrespectful to Stancy because it really does seem like they were pushing that relationship for no reason other than fanservice. As a Stancy myself, I was perfectly content with the fact that their relationship ended messy, they came to some middle ground, and moved on. But rekindling an old flame that barely had the chance to be anything significant before Jonathan and Nancy reunite is just poor writing. I would have prefered they just left it out instead of giving us the nothing burger that was their interactions in s4.

[@maramar7109]

I feel that things between Nancy and Steve were left unresolved. I don't think they ever got true closure so there is a bit of tension left. What I really don't like is the fact that Nancy is disloyal and selfish. When she was with Steve she was looking for Jonathan who at the time looked like a safer option than Steve who was a bit of an asshole, and now she sees that Steve changed and became honest, reliable, takes responsibility for his actions and is generally more emotionally mature and looks like today's flavor of safe option. I think the writers did Jonathan a disservice here because he never had any character growth throughout the 4 seasons, he's the one that remained stagnant out of everyone. I think Nancy needs some introspection, which she avoids in various ways resulting in her disrespecting and discarding people who care for her, especially whoever she's in a relationship with. I really liked how cute stancy was but Steve is not the same anymore and he deserves someone on his level.

[@lilliesinthegard32]

Mike was such a good character in season 1, he was an amazing friend, cared so much for Will and kind to strangers like El, he was a natural leader and one of the most loved from the show! And i have no idea what they did to him... I get that he is a teenager now and he is going to be complicated but his sweetness and his leadership of the group feels like its just gone

[@mochimellow4188]

The scene where Will calls him the heart of the group was honestly shocking to me because Mike has become so distant and unlikable amd if anyone has been the heart it's Will.

[@maria-melek]

@@mochimellow4188Or Dustin, Bruh he’s so smart since season one he has been.

[@SecretKeeperForever9]

The whole teenage angst was taken to extremes. I'm like who is this character. He's nothing like the original character. He was so caught up in finding Will in Season 1, but the way he treated him in Season 4 made me want to punch him.

[@Sam-wq9vi]

​@@mochimellow4188 Dustin is the brains, Wil is the heart, Lucas is the balls, Mike is the ass

[@VulCitres]

It's because they kept Steve around I think 😬

[@Iblamethebarrels]

Oddly enough, I wish they didn't show hopper until Joyce finds him. It would've added to her arch that she's fighting an uphill battle, again, but she trusts her instincts by now

[@TryingToWakeUp-qb7iu]

She has always trusted her instincts. Remember how she insists that Will is alive, against the whole world, back in season 1.

[@thescarIetbitch]

@@TryingToWakeUp-qb7iuthat wasn’t an instinct. she was seeing and hearing will.

[@caldercockatoo2234]

@@thescarIetbitch Yeah but nobody else believed it at first. She was shown an opposing reality multiple times, even seeing the supposed body of Will right in front of her, yet she still believes that it's fake and what's she's been seeing and hearing IS real. If that's not following your instincts then I don't know what is.

[@j6dedd]

i’m glad they did, the prison was one of the best parts of season 4

[@Iblamethebarrels]

@@j6dedd I feel like they should've done one big hopper episode, like we get the reveal he's alive and then backstory

[@katieedwards8151]

I probably would've made Robin be a bit more sceptical of Steve getting back with Nancy - not many best friends would recommend getting back with an ex that broke your heart by getting with another person. Great video, thank u for posting it!!

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

Especially since she knew that Nancy was with Jonathan. I mean yeah, Nancy and him had problems but they were still together. They had a long-distance-relationship of course it's a bit complicated but a friend would probably try to give advice on how to make it worse instead of getting you to cheat.

[@darkwoods1954]

They don't even know that Nancy had sex with Jonathan whilst still with Steve too

[@dozzy9984]

@@darkwoods1954 Where that came from? Nancy suggested to broke up with Steve while drunk in I think S2E2 (but she didn't remembered), while Steve broke up with her the next episode because she couldn't say she loves him. And Nancy slept with Jonathan in either episode 5 or 6. Sure, it's not much time after their break up, but they weren't together. Even Steve acknowleged that, from what I recall.

[@montserratmarroquin400]

@@dozzy9984They kinda were, sure they were fighting but they were still together Also this is the entire reason why Nancy refused to see Jonathan as a romantic partner, she was still with Steve and she acknowledged that Remember "We like Steve but we don’t love him" from Murray and how Nancy kept insisting otherwise

[@gthewolf7948]

​@@montserratmarroquin400wrong. They break up in s2 ep3

[@MrListaTelefonica]

The thing about Robin's change of character for me is about her being out this Season. She made fun of how Steve sucked at talking to girls until she realized she's even worse, and then even tried learning from him. Being close to Nancy let's her ease into it and it's what allows her to finger the girl with peanut butter at the finale. Honestly Will grappling with his feelings for Mike were relatable to me, as a fellow gay, it's hard to differentiate romantic feelings for friendship feelings with close friends especially at that age, and I think that storyline will climax when he talks to Joyce about it, but it had a really clear development for me. Mike being unaware of it is quite realistic too ngl

[@artatmidnight]

fair points! i'm looking forward to how they progress Will & Robin's stories in S5. Agreed that Mike would be oblivious to Will's feelings for him, but I wish he'd notice his tears as a friend and offer some comfort :')

[@LunarWhite]

finger her? wait what

[@flwrlizz]

@@artatmidnight personally i think the fandom is trying too hard to explain the inexplicable! there are many inconsistencies in this season, not only with the characters and their personalities, but also with their plots. honestly, I feel that since season 3 the Duffer brothers have written everything in a shallow way, as if nothing was deep and should only be understood... the episodes were literally around an hour and a half, they could explain a lot of things of a better way, but they preferred to waste time with argyle and yuri's stupid jokes, besides that totally unnecessary part at Suzie's house!

[@EmphaticNod]

@@flwrlizz I agree. Hopefully the criticisms they've received for the pacing on season 4 will convince them to tighten things up in the writing for season 5. There's so many different characters at this point, it'll be difficult to give them all satisfying resolutions without trimming the cast. I'd hate for the series to go out on a messy note just cause the Duffer bros couldn't resist some low-hanging weed jokes...

[@tommyswain3762]

Wait, she fingers Vicki?? Hahaha, don't remember that.

[@salyx]

For a season with such long, bloated episodes, it’s amazing how they managed to do very little with them. The previous seasons were so much more concise and all the characters existed for a reason. For season 4, I found all the plot lines outside of Hawkins to be way too long and boring. The episode that was almost all El made me wish I was doing something else, and that’s a terrible sign (she was SO amazing in season 1 especially). I guess Hawkins is my favorite character.

[@serayvlogs]

Litterally Hawkins is what I only watch when I rewatch season 4.

[@kunpunko]

you’re insane because elevens moments were the best the entire season! you’re telling me you didn’t like the back-in-time lab scenes????

[@cocosimone7754]

I found the Joyce and hopper storyline really boring,I love Joyce but it dragged out far too long imo. I'm loving ur videos sm!!

[@artatmidnight]

thank you!! and i agree. i was always so relieved when we switched away from the Russian storyline lol

[@lovve_buzz]

seriously like i fast forwarded through the entire russian storyline and missed absolutely nothing about the plot

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

​@@lovve_buzzIt's so boring. Like the show has monsters and other dimensions. I want to see more of that and not the soviets.

[@caldercockatoo2234]

@@Ich-Existiere-Nicht Fittingly my favorite parts of that plot were when they DID need to deal with the supernatural.

[@sydissuave]

Agreed- I honestly really liked it at parts and hopper and joyces reunion was sweet but I think they dragged it out so that it would stay at pace with the vecna storyline

[@casper3105]

i have many problems with season 4, far too many but my main personal beef is Eleven herself, this season felt like they were too scared to do anything different with her, it started out strong with EL having to worry about who she is outside of her powers and being a hypocrite by having to lie to Mike, that is an interesting concept and dares to god forbid humanize El, however the duffer brothers seem to be allergic to not have El bleed from her nose and scream so they decided that in this season they are literally gonna force her to get her powers back by making her unlock the most traumatic memory, a memory so traumatic that her brain basically blocked it out and for whatever reason it works. It's just very ironic to me that the character who was dehumanized and trained as a military weapon since she was a baby isn't allowed to grow outside her psychic abilities she isn't even allowed to have a moment to figure her own identity without being thrusted back into the lab in fear of the series loosing their beloved ""nose bleeding, arm reaching, screaming psychic" mascot, it is just sad honestly also the Russian plot sucked absolute ass, i dreaded it everytime we were cut back to it because it added NOTHING and wasted my time, you can cut this entire subplot off and just have Joyce explain that she found Hopper in appalachian mountains and it would make more sense. fucking hated it

[@foxymoon7860]

I agree so much. I like El's character and she's one of my favorites but it looks like the Duffers don't care about giving her agency aside from making her nose bleed and use her 'badass' powers to save the day. It's just very reductive to her character and development imho.

[@thatguyap_]

@@foxymoon7860 fax. To basically echo your point, there is no stakes when a main character is in “trouble” I’m just like “oh well Elevens gonna save them 🤷‍♂️” no stakes. At this point you can tell that they only really k ill off side characters. (bob, Eddie etc)

[@margarotwelv]

I disagree tbh. El finally, finally had some character development in s4 and I liked how they handled it. She shined most in the last few episodes. I mean, she never would have been able to stand up to Brenner before, but she was able to see the truth of everything he’s done. Eleven hasn’t ever really had a long, emotional filled argument like that- where we get to see her verbalize her thoughts. They decided to have her rehash the “i’m the monster” dilemma from s1, which I think is a great choice. But, to each their own.

[@andreeab2948]

The russian plot was my boyfriend 's favorite :))

[@xoxoRachelZegerSuperfan]

I hate that the Russian storyline lasted the entire season, I would’ve preferred a much shorter arc even though I love Winona I would’ve rather she did something else too

[@M53614]

SAME took up so much screen time when there are underdeveloped characters are running around who need screen time to grow. Aka Mike, Jonathon, and Argyle.

[@NathasyaStellaHermanus]

Exactly, like you're telling me that you got Winona Ryder in your cast and all you did with her character is put her in an already dragged out storyline that lasted almost an entire season? I would've love to see Joyce interact with El and seeing how their relationship progressed even if it's just a bit.

[@pohia]

hopper escaping (the first time) was the only captivating scene out of that entire subplot for me. i wish they scrapped the whole thing. i totally thought and WISHED that hopper was going to have to dive into the upside down portal in order to survive that explosion at the end of s3, and then have to deal with surviving on the other side all by himself. that would’ve been COOL! instead, he just jumped and somehow survived the same blast that disintegrated everyone else in the room? just to get captured by russians, then escape, then get captured again, then escape again, then GO BACK AGAIN. like! wtf! where is the creativity!!

[@giuliac9735]

I fast forward those scenes..😅

[@lenglecharis-carlson1698]

Another character they kind of failed on was Erica. I just wanted her to have more screen time!! Priah was in all the press so I was expecting more.

[@EmonEconomist]

Seriously! I love the Sinclair siblings and felt they were both done SO dirty this season. Both of them had epic wins in Episode 1 that felt like it was narratively setting them up for a similar epic moment in the final episode. Instead Lucas can do nothing more than hold Max and cry, while Erica is foiled by... a door?? (I know it's a D&D trope, but come on!) And the only tie Erica had to D&D in that final showdown was screaming "natural 20!" while she whacked a guy with her flashlight, which felt exceptionally contrived. It was so underwhelming and they both deserved SO much better. Especially considering the Duffers had extra time to revise the writing for this season.

[@mochafrappawhat]

An issue i have was with Will because he was my favorite character. I thought he had so much potential to be deep and super relatable/interesting, with him not really "growing up" the same as everyone else (due to the upside down/trauma) and his connection with it, and basically being an outsider. I love him being gay, but i wish that it wasnt the MAIN/basically only aspect of his character they explored. Feels like wasted potential :(

[@howard4558]

I personally feel like there was more, especially in season 3. You see the boys at preteen age all talking about preteen stuff like girls and relationships, growing up so to speak. Meanwhile Will still wants to play dnd. A lot of people are attributing this to him being gay and not interested in talking about girls, and that might be part of the reason, but I largely feel like it's about him not wanting to grow up. He's missed a lot of his childhood as everyone treated him differently after he was missing, and because of that he clings onto his childhood, never wanting to grow up. This can be proven by the fact that a few scenes later you see him destroying the castle of will byers, because he feels like his childhood is well and truelly over. Besides this, I still feel like he's an interesting complex character. In season 1, he is victimised by the upside down, and once he is saved he is coddled by his mother and brother, and treated differently by everyone. He is called a freak, which is bad, but also his friends treat him differently, are very careful about what they say about him, as if he's going to break. Because of everyone treating him like a victim, that is what leads him to taking Bob's bad advice of standing up to the smoke monster. He's been in the upside down, he shouldve known that he shouldn't take that risk, but he did because he wanted to prove everyone wrong, he wasn't just a victim, he isn't a freak, he isn't going to break, he is strong. But of course that plan fails, and he's once again the victim. That's why in season 3 he regressed to being more childish than his friends, wanting to go back to an era before he was victimised again and again. Since his friends are growing up and he's regressing, it forms a chasm between him and his friends, especially Mike, who he's probably had a crush on for quite a while. In season 4, you see that he is fully realised his victimhood persona. He isn't trying to fight it anymore, he just seems to accept that he is and always will be a victim. He practically flinches when a girl lightly touches his foot, he has the same awful haircut his mother gives him even though at that age most people develop their own style. Even a lab rat eleven developed her own style, so the reason he isn't developing his own style is because he is just letting the world happen to him. It's also why he barely stands up for eleven, because he's still in that victimhood mentality. Eleven stole Mike away from him, so even though she is right in front of him being bullied, he still acts cold and distant to her. This makes him quite unlikeable in season 4 imo, even Mike points out that he is being mopy and stroppy with everyone. But I do think that he's going to escape his victimhood mentality when he is vulnerable and comes out to his family. Then he'll likely blossom into a really amazing character in season 5 (I'm so glad I worked in his haircuts into my analysis lmao 💀)

[@batmanfan15]

@@howard4558speak!

[@MyCarnageExtreme]

The easy answer is that the Duffer Brothers don't know how to handle the story. They lost focus a long time ago. The fact that Mike and Eleven, the protagonists of season 01, are useless and almost filler in season 04 says a lot.

[@Jdudec367]

I mean not true, they do know how to handle it. The focus is still there but it has shifted. How are they useless or filler? Both have their arcs especially Eleven which is very important to beating Vecna.

[@miserablehuman5663]

Idk about Mike but eleven's arc in season 4 was amazing. She's one of the best written characters in all the seasons imo

[@3ggPankak3s]

exactly! their writing isn't good, but the actors are great, and really carry the show. writing got lost after season 1, and had it not been for the actors, i think the show should've ended there

[@miserablehuman5663]

@@3ggPankak3s I agree that they haven't handled some characters like Mike and Jonathan in the best way. But I wouldn't say their writing is bad. The storyline, visuals and plots gets better and better with every season. That's amazing writing imo. They did a great job with most of the characters. Although some like robin and Mike might have been a bit out of character. I mean you can't say season 4 was a blast just cuz of good acting right?

[@osmanyousif7849]

Yeah, and that’s one of the biggest issues with this series in general. Which is the fact that it didn’t need to be an entire series but just a miniseries. Season one wrapped up all the arcs pretty well, even though it did have a sad resolution. Most have felt that that was kind of the point. Trying to drag the series out for more, really ruined the story.

[@theshimmereffect3506]

Yea while I liked the Russia storyline it felt like joyce didn't do anything.

[@artatmidnight]

and she usually is involved in so much! her story in S1 is my favourite plotline of hers

[@Iblamethebarrels]

She for sure was just being dragged along for the ride

[@voymacao4625]

Exactly!!

[@thebookwormninja9193]

Robin’s change bugged me so much. She felt like a caricature of herself and I rest missed old Robin. Felt like they just really missed with her

[@pohia]

same. she was so cool in season 3. i get that realistically, she would open up and be more herself after coming out to steve and being accepted, but the switch is SO dramatic. she used to be this quippy, sarcastic, super dry witted girl who was a little bit mysterious and loner-like. then she totally flipped into the most passionate, sincere little loser who wears her heart on her sleeve. like, it just felt so wrong to me. you can take away some of her mystery aspect (which was there because she was secretly queer), and have her be closer to these other characters without losing what made her charming in the first place.

[@LK-my3wq]

I don't agree. Robin is very clearly nuerodivergent and I think the change in between the seasons represents her becoming more comfortable and unmasking around steve and around people in general. I think having a nuerodivergent character is good.

[@thebookwormninja9193]

@@LK-my3wq no one is saying having a neurodivergent character is bad. It's good! I'm not referring to Robin's humor, vulnerability, etc. She has a clear personality shift: she goes from being comfortable to awkward and adapting an entirely different sense of humor and way of speaking. Maybe you can pin that on her opening up and not knowing how to have deeper relationships. However, she also becomes very physically clumsy. I don't think being comfortable around people makes you suddenly become physically uncoordinated when you were not that way before. It's still possible, but again, it's hard to view the changes in Robin as all opening up, versus poor, caricature-style writing.

[@alanabanana752]

@@pohiacompletely agree!!! I’m so happy someone else could put this into words, better than I have.

[@All-ze9cl]

she was a snarky and clever character in season 3, but in 4 they just made her Nancys opposite. Nancy became the serious and smart one and Robin was there to crack jokes and be confused. She became less important to the plot and was just there to make some goofy jokes (which was not really her season 3 humor).

[@edgemcmuffin925]

I have a bit of a controversial opinion but I personally feel like Stranger Things should have stayed at one season. I love how self contained it was and there were really well done horror elements. I also loved in S1 there were the right amount of characters and everyone had the appropriate amount of screen time and it felt that everyone was working towards one goal: Getting Will out of the Upside Down, making the story more digestible. Another thing too is that I loved the mystery of what was going on in S1, as the season progresses you slowly learn what's going on. I feel like all these elements are kind of missing in the rest of the seasons (especially because with S2 and S3 you kind of know what force the gang is dealing w/). S4 does kinda go back to it's roots with horror, and it is better and more memorable than the rest of the seasons (for me personally), but I can't say it's easily rewatchable as the first season. P.S. Will say, the Russian plotline is probably the weakest for me. Every other plotline kind of meshes well with each other, but the minute it goes to the Russian subplot I feel like I get whiplash. Anyways, sorry for the essay lol. I really love the video and I love the intros to each section!

[@artatmidnight]

thank you so much! i love making the little intros hehe Season 1 is still my favourite season because of the mystery, like you mentioned. but I think they did a decent job continuing the story for S2-4 and growing the characters. I am hoping that the mind flayer is still the actual villain, and is just using Vecna as a puppet. I like that idea because it would connect well with how everything started. Even though I love Vecna, i hope there's more mystery to unravel in S5.

[@valeriecomplex9685]

It was supposed to be one season. The plane was for it to be an anthology which I think it should have done by just making Eleven the only thread.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

I don't believe that's controversial at all, actually. Though we love the characters, a lot of the fandom realizes that season 1 was the best we had. Season 2 was not as good, and the story took a turn after the ~racist~ backlash against the episode introducing Number Eight. The story of season 4 specially, the main story with the satanic panic and an actual supernatural entity preying on kid's traumas to kill them, could've been a completely standalone show. AND IF IT WAS STANDALONE MAYBE CHRISSY WOULD'VE LIVED and I'm gonna die mad about this

[@LunaWitcherArt]

@Ks I guess you missed the part where I said the seasons should be standalone. The Duffer Brothers are create at creating and introducing new characters; they could have made every season a different supernatural threat set in the 80s. THEN, they could have had this story set during the satanic panic where a rebel kid who's a dungeon master teams up with the cheer captain because she wants drugs to numb the effects of being preyed on by a supernatural being who feeds on traumatized teens and their fears. He tries to help her get rid of that threat while everyone in the city is after him because it looks like he kidnapped the cheer leader. That's what I meant. If the seasons were standalone, there'd be no need to have 10+ characters from previous seasons taking space in that plot.

[@clareflattery8720]

I truly believe Season 1 is the best season of television ever created.

[@marythompson903]

its crazy how the main character Mike, who is supposed to hold all characters together, has no plot this season other than giving a heartfelt speech at the end.... how does the main character become the backburner to his sister and her love interest?

[@alexinator-hh5fe]

So I actually have some thoughts about this video. I get that a lot of people hated Jason. And if they feel that way, that's totally valid. But I personally felt like Jason was kinda just S1 Steve but a tad more extreme. In S1, Steve is presented as a kinda antagonist. But if you look at his actions from an outside perspective, he's just weirded out that Jonathan has been kinda creepy towards his girlfriend and then suddenly they're hanging out together behind his back. He has no idea about the supernatural elements. And he has no reason to believe anything supernatural is occurring. So he acts accordingly. Jason believes something supernatural is occurring because of the 80's idea that D&D is tied to very bad things. And Eddie just so happens to be at the scene of the crime for multiple supernatural instances. So he thinks Eddie is the cause and acts accordingly. I think it would've been a much better storyline and an opportunity to create a far more nuanced character if Jason survived. Maybe have him just barely avoid the cracks and it makes him think Eddie really is evil. Only for him to see the actual supernatural elements in S5 and slowly realize that he was wrong about Eddie. And he spends S5 trying to right his wrongs and even trying to convince the town that Eddie had nothing to do with any of this. Maybe even having a moment where he saves Lucas to parallel his moment in S4 where he thinks he's also apart of all of the madness going on to when he realizes that none of them had anything to do with this. Rather than just ending him. I decided to split my other comment in two because I wanted to talk about Jason separately

[@artatmidnight]

that could've been an interesting redemption arc for Jason! but i'm okay with ending him in S4. he's a character where over confidence and misplaced justice fails him. his entire platform and beliefs are unfounded. and because he believes he is highly moral, he ends up being close-minded and that's what drives him to his demise. so i think that concept is interesting but would've been more satisfying had he realized his mistake right before the end

[@hannahm2837]

*talks about Jason* I wanted to split my other comment in two- I can't be the only one going to hell for laughing at this

[@allergictoalliteration6033]

I like your perspective, but I like that Jason did not get his redemption arc or "aha" moment before he died. Else, his character would mirror Steve too much. I like that we got to imagine Jason as someone who Steve could've become if things had played out differently. More importantly, he would've just become one more new character in an already crowded story.

[@serayvlogs]

Honestly they should have done that for Jason, but I understand that they want s5 to be about the main cast.

[@serayvlogs]

​@@hannahm2837 LMAO 🤡

[@coreybell2223]

Disagree about Argyle. Jonathan would not be able to drive all that way by self. The group never took steps to rest because Argyle and Jonathan kept switching as drivers. Also Argyle shows Jonathan’s growth in that he finally opened himself up to have a friend. Prior to this, Jon was always known as the moody loner. Even Will called him out on this back in season 2. Will was able to get a friend group at a young age while Jonathan never could/did. If Steve’s allowed to have Robin. And Later Nancy opens herself up to Robin (first girlfriend she’s had since Barb). Then it’s character growth to see Jonathan open himself up to Argyle.

[@serayvlogs]

Facts no printer!

[@damaged.collateral]

i agree but argyle’s personality wasn’t funny or added anything to me tbh

[@mads7710]

@@damaged.collateraleveryone has their own opinion. to me, he was the only thing that made that part of the season tolerable. everytime we switched to the guys i knew i was gonna be bored the whole time, to me he provided some much needed entertainment to that storyline of the season.

[@HelloJellojrl]

I'm very neutral on argyle i don't love or hate him as a character. plot wise though, I feel like everything he does could have very easily been transferred to one of the other characters. which would have made the season feel less character bloated and also add more interesting dynamics to the trio. He gave them transportation - the only reason they needed a car was because jonathans was broken; don't have it broken, they have a car! or they could have driven in heroic police mans or even stolen a car from a bad guy. Jonathan can't drive 24/7 on his own. Both will and mike are 15-16 which is old enough to have a learners, they could have easily taken a shift during the day at least. He wrote the grave stone for Dead man and found clue. Give that to mike or will. will was always said to be the quiet but sensitive one so this would be in character. Were as Mike we keep getting told is the heart/leader of the group, and he's been mainly fighting with will and ell this season so that would be a good way to prove he is the heart. the leader. and he would have been the one to find the clue then, making him more proactive in the plot. any conversation he has about Nancy and college. If with will, brotherly bonding moment, over their collective issues with the wheeler kids. If with Mike the writers could easily use that conversation to add double meaning, either to mikes broken relationship with will or with El. Maybe it'd help him understand why he has troubles saying "I love you" to El. They only needed the pizzeria for the deep freezer. Which argyle could be included but not come on the road trip so they could have just called him up and still gained access or they could have broken into a store emphasizing how desperate they were. I also don't feel like Argyll was a personal growth moment for Jonathan, if anything them hanging out and the weed feels like a back step for him, he's running away from his problems with Nancy/college and not being their for Will or Ell. i mean imagine Season 1 Jonathan making any of the decisions of season 4 Jonathon. He'd have yelled at Will for even thinking of getting into the back of a van with a dude who was most likely high while driving. He also would have interrogated Joyce when she said she was leaving, 'Were to, how long, why?' instead of 'okay, have fun!' season 1-3 his problem was that he was a worry wart with too much responsibility. Season 4 he's abandoned all responsibility until the plot got going and forced him back into the big brother role. Not to say this is a bad decision character wise. as stated above Jonathan use to have to much responsibility and now with half his burden lifted he's spiraling instead which is common. I just don't think Argyle represents Jonathon opening up, and they could easily shown him having friends without bringing that friend on the road trip.

[@28starwarsfan]

Will has always been a background character. He was essentially a plot device--a plot point--in the first two seasons, but not much of a character in and of himself. The third season he was more of a background character with a small struggle.

[@nathalia120]

Which makes me sad because he legitimately has so many aspects that would be interesting and cool to explore if given proper time

[@28starwarsfan]

@@nathalia120 such rich conflict to draw on, so different from the other four, such a big gap after the first season to overcome. But, no. He's just kind of there. Potential noted, but glossed over.

[@munchedpotatos6576]

When it comes to Robin's change in personality, I really related to it as a neurodivergent person. A lot of neurodivergent people, especially women, do something called masking which is where you hide or mask or neurodivergent traits in order to fit in to a neurotypical society. I might just be projecting but to me Robin in season three seems like her "mask" and Robin in season four is more her being more comfortable and learning to unmask. The first time I ever started feeling comfortable enough to unmask in front of people it was such a relief to not have the constant stress of that that it became difficult to stop. As someone with add I really related to the scene where she talked about not being able to stop talking as well as the scene with Nancy at the library and as an autistic person I really related to her attempting to explain that she struggles with social cusles and Nancy seemingly not caring or believing her. There are loads of great youtube videos about masking and unmasking made by nerudivergent people if you want to better understand my perspective. I feel like there was more focus on plot this season then with previous seasons and they just really wanted to keep the tone lighter as to not give the viewers tonal whiplash and instead had much more subtle character parts that you might not realise unless you've had or know of similar experiences. To me it seemed a bit like that with Will as well especially considering the show takes place in the eighties and Will's not just struggling with his sexuality because we live in a hetero normative society but struggling because he li es in a actively homophobic society. It's not something that was really talked about back then other than in insults so he doesn't say it out loud, because he wouldn't. Anyway, sorry for the long comment, I hope you have a great day and maybe try to learn a bit more about the experiences of others in order to gain a greater understanding of both characters and real people :)))

[@kayu.]

THATS WHAT IM SAYIN BRO THANK YOU

[@kayu.]

@@ambriaashley3383 or youre not giving any credit at all we cant really know until s5

[@darby_asleep]

Didn’t read the whole thing but literally this is so real. Robin’s character as a neurodivergent/showing neurodivergent traits really is very comforting and helpful to see a similar character to you for those who are not neurotypical.

[@bubbles4897]

Ok but…..she was not written as neurodivergent so what does this even matter? She was not “masking”. Maya hawke said the personality change was bcus of how she speaks in real life and the creators decided they wanted to see robin do that. We are talking about storytelling, not headcanons

[@munchedpotatos6576]

@@bubbles4897 I wasn't trying to say that she was written as neurodivergent, I was just trying to say that her characterization and the change in it could be seen as neurodivergent. To neurodivergent folk it can be comforting to see your own experiences reflected in a character or show that you like and what I was attempting to do was acknowledge that her character and change in character can have a certain value to certain people. It's the only way a lot of us can see our own experiences reflected since the good representation of us is lacking to the least. Some people only get to have "headcannons" or nothing at all. I don't mean to be rude I just wanted to share a different perspective. Also, I think stranger things is quite a plot driven show but in this instance you were talking about a change in characterization and sharing personal opinions about what you did and didn't enjoy about it so I thought it was alright to chip in. That's just my perspective though, you don't have to agree with me :))

[@ct737]

Season 4 is good but will never be the same is Season 1. I cannot quite put my finger on what made that season have such an impact on me... It's just so phenomenal, and with season 3 and season 4 something just feels off. It doesn't have that crazy atmosphere that almost feels like you've dreamt it before. Season 3 and 4 feel like textbook Netflix style. At 16:15 you can see how much the tone and style has shifted from Season 1. That shot of Joyce talking to Hopper has a much more thoughtful tone, art direction, and acting when contrasted with the season 4 clip of Joyce and Murray..

[@Luv4Series]

That's what I'm saying! Season 1 and 2 flows so well together! They have the same atmosphere. But I still don't know why season 3 and 4 feels so different. They certainly can't compare to season 1 in my opinion. It's just something about it that feels so comforting. idk.

[@thisprospectjoint9738]

Robin seems like she’s only there for snarky comments and sarcasm

[@GOKUL-rm7md]

That’s why she’s one of my fav characters from that show

[@anjalik1136]

True they missed with her character this season

[@lulutraylor5187]

i feel like what the duffer brothers struggle with is not so much that they have too many characters, but that they have a hard time figuring out which ones need to be at the forefront and need to be more vital to the story. Having many characters we learn little about is okay as long as they add to the story, but i feel like with season four, they were trying to give way too many characters "their time to shine" so to speak. I think El was the only character that was at the forefront the entire time but even still, it was lackluster. I can't wait to see season five though and i solely hope that Will is a truly main character next season :)

[@anonymous891]

You have made very good points tbh!! I think that the whole thing of Mike being heart of the story they should have spent more time on him perhaps even more than the Russian storyline. He was perfect until s2 then in s3 too I kind of liked in fact that was one season where we saw his and el's relation bloom the most and I believed it was going to be used well in s4 I won't deny they did it to some extent but also undermined Mike's character a bit too much and it feels it's beyond repair for some reason. I feel like they need to strengthen and make his character be what he was in 1 and 2. Then automatically their relationship would be much more stronger too and I am emphasizing so much on it bcs I feel their relationship for some reason is very central or kind of heart of the whole series!!

[@xiopaovid1215]

I'm so glad you're doing longer videos! I really enjoy your color analysis videos, and your character analysis of Euphoria. I hope you continue them.

[@artatmidnight]

Thank you so much! I really love making all this content and I have more on the way. I'm so glad you enjoy ! 🥰🫶

[@alexinator-hh5fe]

Moving on to Mike and Will, I want to say that this is just my opinion. If you disagree, it's fine. First, I'd like to talk about how they've both been getting less of a spotlight as the seasons went on(I'm aware the Duffers have stated that Will will pretty much be the main focus of S5). But S1 was mostly about Will. Mike was a great leader, but he also had moments of being impulsive and a bit hypocritical. Which is understandable. He's a kid and one of his best friends is missing. He finds El and she helps him find Will. But when he finally gets Will back, he loses El. S2 and Will is once again the main focus. The possession, the mind flayer, his moments with Mike. Mike is a bit less of a leader in this season but he also spends most of the season being a supportive best friend for Will so it's understandable. He wants to help and protect his friend. In the S2 finale script it mentions that Will is staring at Mike the whole time while dancing with the girl. I just want to point out that Mike has a strange look on his face after Will goes off to dance with that girl. Even though he knows El is coming. S3 is perhaps the most disappointing season for me. Will and Mike have a storyline for the first three episodes of the season where Mike still wants to protect Will but he's having trouble balancing his time between El and Will. And he seems super regretful that he ends up hurting Will's feelings. Then it's dropped for the rest of the season. Will is reduced to spidey-senses duty and Mike is kinda just there. No leadership moments. It feels like this is the season where he went from being a leader to just being the "boyfriend" character. Will and Mike have a tiny moment at the end of the season but that's it. S4 is interesting. Will and Mike have little to nothing to do with the supernatural plot this season. So instead the show focuses on their relationship with each other. Their reunion is awkward. Mike seems a million miles away, Will doesn't tell him about the painting he made for him. Mike is spending time with El, but we also learn that he's secretly been watching Will enough to know that he's rolling his eyes and not having a good time(keep in mind that Mike also noticed Will was quiet in S2 whereas Lucas thought it was just Will being Will). They have a fight that kinda mirrors their S3 one. Will is upset because he thinks Mike doesn't want to spend time with him. Mike is upset that Will didn't reach out more during their time apart. It's important to note in Volume 2 that Dustin says Mike was annoyed that Joyce was always on the phone because it meant the line was busy constantly. We know that Mike and El had to only communicate via letters because the Hawkins Government has the phone lines monitored. So Mike WAS trying to talk to Will, but he couldn't. They make up in episode 4 where Mike apologizes for being mean to Will and admits that he's still having trouble with splitting his focus between El and Will. But that Hawkins isn't the same without Will there. And that really stuck out to me. We know that Lucas, Dustin, Mike and Will all consider themselves to be best friends. Yet the show keeps going out of its way to portray Mike and Will's relationship as special. They spend the rest of the season attached to each other. El told Mike at the beginning of the season that she thinks Will is painting something for his crush. Mike seems super happy when Will gives the painting to him. But if you watch the scene, he actually seems confused when Will tries to claim that "El" commissioned it. Then we get the veiled love confession. We get a shot between Will, Mike and El that parallels the scene in the same episode between Robin, Vickie and her boyfriend. Then in the finale, Mike confesses to El because Will encourages him to using HIS veiled confession about himself as a base. His love confession is based on a love confession that isn't even about a girl. In S3, we saw that Steve had an unrequited love situation with Robin. It got resolved in that same season and they became better friends. The show could've easily done that with Will and Mike. But instead they keep giving more hints about their relationship. It just doesn't make sense to me to write 5 seasons worth of buildup towards Will liking Mike if that was just going to end in rejection. Which is why I think Will and Mike are going to end up together. Once again, this is my opinion. If you disagree, that's totally fine

[@myst7001]

This is so true and a video I recommend to the creator is LesbianMindFlayers analysis video of Suzie's house. It has some wonderful insight into symbolism.

[@growingupwithdisney]

I agree 100%, there’s a reason why Mike and Will’s points of view weren’t shown fully. There’s so much more to be revealed in season 5. I don’t think the same applies for El, I think she’s becoming more independent (which explains for the last shot of season 4). Season 3 was just a hint of what was to come. El became independent (with the help of Max) and ended things off with Mike. It was taken as a joke in s3, but it did sorta come to fruition seriously in season 4, and I’m sure it’ll be completed in season 5.

[@apolloismydad]

hi random person on the internet who also watches gayer things!

[@jokeroppi]

EXACTLY!! you get it!! i was so confused when she was saying that will’s crush came out of nowhere because it’s been a thing for basically all of the seasons thus far.

[@armi_tae.6341]

Byler forever

[@Katiek444]

My sister and I were watching season 3 the other day and saw the scene where Will desperately wants to play DND and tries to initiate it w mike and Lucas only for them to be sarcastic and rude. She mentioned how she understands that will lost basically two years of his childhood and is still in that mindset while his friends are even more matured due to saving him. She said how he can’t expect them to be on the same level because they had to mature in order to save him while he was essentially in a coma and I agreed. I didn’t however remember that will was LITERALLY AWAKE IN THE UPSIDE DOWN. He is probably so fucking traumatized and I feel as though the show never truly delved into his trauma. Yes he destroyed castle Byers and broke down, but I feel as though now that can just be seen as a mike and will narrative and just him feeling nostalgic. They must do will more justice.

[@Luv4Series]

I love Johnathan. im so sad about what the Duffer brothers did to his character. They made him into nothing. They ruined his relationship by pushing stancy for some reason. Steve and Nancy's breakup made them grow as characters. It should stay in the past. And im upset about Will's character as well. They gave him no story plot besides being their for el from a distance. They also changed mikes character. He used to be a kind and caring friend. He wouldn't notice if someone wasn't okay and he was always there for his friends. He was very loving, but now he doesn't seem to nofice other's feelings anymore. For instance, he didn't notice Lucas's feelings for the game or will's feelings.I also noticed how they changed Robbins' character. She used to be a cool character, but now she's steering into that annoying "uhh guys? Character. Im not sure how to explain it, but her character has changed. And to be honest, the whole Russian storyline was extremely boring. It seemed dragged out, and i didn't care too much for it. It kinda felt out of place because stranger things focuses on the unusual, mystery and monsters. I also think the overall storyline is not consistent. They used to have everything planned, but now they're constantly changing things because of the new fans. For example, they've become too scared to kill off characters. Dont get me wrong, i absolutely love Max, but the entire situation with el suddenly having powers to bring someone to life was weird. It's like i cried for nothing. And im a bit confused with season 2 and season 4 because apparently 001 killed everyone, but 008 is still alive.

[@justpeachybaby5929]

I absolutely agree. But I will say, I think what they're doing with stancy and jancy is that nancy seems to have lost love and passion for jonathan sadly, but she's suddenly starting to rekindle with steve. I think ultimately they're swaying the audience back in the middle again for both ships because I think Nancy is ultimately going to end up alone. A platonic friend of both. Its probably being done in a subtle way so it's not the typical "she's getting back with her ex again" storyline. Yeah the whole el having the powers to bring others back came absolutely outta nowhere. I did enjoy season 4 but that really was a head scratcher. It could have possibly been hinted with hopper, though, as she somehow survived a massive explosion in 3 it could have possibly been el shielding him through power and love for him. But I'd like it better if they just didn't introduce this at all or if el wasn't even aware she had this type of power, it would make the scene and introduction to this power more powerful as a viewer. And Mike they need to give this guy a storyline that doesnt involve el. I dont mean will though im not convinced or keen on byler. But i have faith in 5 as the main group will be together, the teens, the young adults, and adults. I hope we just have one big story and no more groups. Or if so, not for long.

[@animemi]

i’m super early lol 😂 also I def agree about Will he was criminally underutilized in S4 he’s one of my fav characters 💗💗

[@artatmidnight]

i'm pretty sure he'll be more useful in S5, but he def deserved more this season. he also really needs a new hair cut :')

[@anaivanic7303]

I just have to say that there's a reason why Mike and Will were held back as a characters and their real character development will come in s5.

[@zolaeight7574]

Season five is the finale, you don’t do much character development in a finale- it’s time to close the arcs

[@anaivanic7303]

@@zolaeight7574 Yeah, that's why i say. Mike's and Will's real character arcs are kept for S5. Especially Mike,he had a huge character development,but his development is hidden in subtext, it's not revealed for audience. That's why flashbacks will be very important for his character in s5

[@zolaeight7574]

@@anaivanic7303That would be the worst type of writing. For character development to feel earned it has to be overt and occur over a long period. It is never a subtext. They were given an entire plot line this season it’s just that people didn’t like it nearly as much. Mike is what he is, to change him drastically in the final season would mark a failure of the previous four in establishing his character. Now it’s time to close arcs, not rewrite them, that’s why you can’t introduce any important new characters. It’s about the final confrontation with Vecna/Mindflayer and a resolution of the arcs for all of the main characters.

[@anaivanic7303]

@@zolaeight7574 Mike's real arc that hasn't been told in the show,but subtly shown has been planned since S1,it wasn't rewritten. And honestly it wouldn't be suprising if one episode is entirely dedicated to him dealing with his sexuality and showing you scenes that have been filmed since S1,but haven't been shown. This show is not just about Upside down/Vecna, it's a very character driven show. Not to mention that entire supernatural stuff is an allegory for homosexuality. Upside down pretty much represents homophobia and the gate is a metaphor for a closet. I could explain you how the gate opening/closing during the show is a metaphor for Mike's own closet cause it makes perfect sense. You guys think it's a joke,but you won't be laughing when it becomes a reality in S5 about what i said

[@serayvlogs]

​@@anaivanic7303 if it doesn't we are sueing the Duffers for queerbaiting and for waisting the build up the writing the symbolism for nothing

[@belinda8313]

They need/ must let important characters die. It's normal.

[@hassansulaiman3848]

Yes exactly my main problem with this show is that is kinda predictable because it doesn’t really feel like their stakes because we all know that the main cast will stay alive and a new character will die

[@RespectableRick]

As much as I loved season 4, it really did just kind of feel like a precursor to season 5. Although I feel like a lot of characters are going to have an opportunity to do more in season 5 (like Will for example who looks like he'll be off the sidelines and very central to story), I really wish season 4 did a better job existing as a stand-alone season as far as its characters.

[@RX-12]

The show really just makes me jealous of the kids because I was a social outcast growing up and I never could have had close friends like them.

[@maria-melek]

Me too except for me my biggest thing was depression and anxiety ever since I was 10, now I’m 21, I missed on so many things. And my friend (s) were always halfway there, they’d say hi to me, we’d talk, but now looking back I was more like Will, even after COVID hit they’ve never once reached out. I never really had true friends after age 9, nor can’t trust anyone, I was bullied when I moved schools at age 9, I once again had to start over and get used to change but my bullies would make sure I didn’t. It’s just so horrible, when this show came out I was Sadie’s age (btw she’s 4 days older than me) and just seeing how happy they looked even in interviews or even on set or even in a make believe tv show friendship hurts because I would’ve loved to have friends like them. 21 and still no friends, and still finding the courage for a lot of things.

[@kofabillion]

GL Maria, you got this!

[@josabby474]

I think that making Will pine after Mike kinda crapped on his growth in season 3. After he has the fight with Mike, he’s speaking for himself and sitting above everyone else and speaking for himself. It was subtle growth. In season 1, Will hung back to tell Mike that he’d rolled the 7. In season 2, he was standing behind Mike as Mike explained to the others about Dart for him. Season 3, after the fight with Mike, he speaks for himself to the group. He also tells Mike and Lucas when he thinks they’re acting like idiots. Mike and Will’s friendship was pretty one sided in season 4 and most of season 3, but at least Mike had two moments where he showed concern for Will in season 3. It was jarring after their Frodo- Sam Gordy- Chris dynamic in season 2. The talk in California in season 4 where Mike is apologizing to Will felt kinda hollow. It may have had more impact if we’d seen them talking about what happened to Castle Byers or if maybe we’d seen Mike thinking about Will at all prior to arriving in California, his speech might have felt less hollow. They could have had him miss Will while looking for someone to join the campaign. As it was he came across as a douche for getting mad at Lucas for going to the game when he’d given the “we’re not kids anymore” speech to Will. We see Will constantly supporting Mike in season 4, but we don’t see Mike even noticing that Will is doing anything until the final scene. His relationship with El hasbecome unhealthy for both of them, in my opinion. El has put all her self worth in what Mike thinks, and Mike tries to push his own insecurities onto her. They’ve made each other worse instead of better. El, despite having powers, was a passive character in season 4. She got new and improved super powers, yet couldn’t fight Vecna until Mike said he loved her. She was watching Max about to die a horrific death , but gave up until she got validated from the guy pushing his own insecurities on her. I think El would have been more interesting if Angela had been cut from the show. The screen time that the bullying took up could have been dedicated to El having a relationship with her new family. She had lost Hopper and her powers, so she had more than enough to be sad about. Maybe they could have had her notice that she hadn’t heard from Max and be concerned. She and Willing had that big hug. Maybe we could have seen them bonding over shared trauma. Both were breaking away from utter dependency on Mike in season 3. Maybe their bond as siblings and having each other for emotional support could have made Mike’s insecurities more compelling. Instead they had both Will and El pining over Mike. I think that they made Robin more goofy because they were trying to make Nancy look super competent by comparison because they’re trying to frame Nancy as the smartest person on the show. Considering that Robin cracked the Russian code and noticed things that Nancy overlooked, I think that Robin is actually smarter. Joyce too. The Russian story had its moments and the final reveal by Henry was fantastic, but overall both the Russian and Nina project lines felt bloated.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

Oh that would've been great. Could you imagine if the tension when Mike came to visit was because El and Will had grown way closer and Mike was feeling like the third wheel instead of Will? Mike realizing that the two people he cared the most about and introduced to each other were now closer to each other than to him? Will and El joking about people from school they could see in the rink, having to explain inside jokes to Mike and eventually giving up altogether because Mike had to be there? Ooooh that would've hurt way more than the bullying. Will still being mad about Mike not calling or writing to him, but the emphasis being even more on how Mike didn't call because Will also didn't? And Will maybe joking a lot with El simply because he wasn't sure about his feelings for Mike and didn't want to confront them, so he instead just avoids Mike altogether and justifies it to himself that it's because they haven't kept contact? I might write a fic about that someday.

[@serayvlogs]

Greatest comments! I wish their storylines went this way. Also for the El and Vecna fighting scene she didn't get the strength to fight until she saw Max being Vecnaed. Mike's "love" speech made her feel sadder and weaker as it was inauthentic and how he didn't see her for her, he only saw her as a hero.

[@serayvlogs]

​@@LunaWitcherArt pls do!

[@juniorayala185]

​@@LunaWitcherArtI know i'm late but please write that fic

[@All-ze9cl]

I feel the exact same way about Robin

[@skakirask]

Will was always an underutilized character because he was the MacGuffin in S1 and pretty much the same in S2. When he complains about being ignored/left behind in S3 it almost feels like a meta joke.

[@ellagoreyshorrorstories7524]

I was distracted by the fact that there's NO WAY El's clothes would have stayed that white and clean for all that time...

[@platanoluver]

100% agreed with your thoughts on argyle and jonathan. It's so obvious I have no idea what the writers thought necessitated Argyle's existence

[@monovision566]

I could tell Will was in love with Mike even in season 2. I love how steadily they’ve built it.

[@lottieishot]

omg literally real, i was so upset and a little confused when she said it came out of the blue like are u blind???

[@annabelle.rose.slay.]

@@lottieishot frrr you can see it through the whole show there’s so many hints like hello

[@soulserenade.kcn1992]

Can you tell me which moments?

[@HelloJellojrl]

Well their are some people who even after season 4 are going "Wait, Will is gay?" I think people who are a part of the lgbtq community are just use to looking for subtext in a way that you don't have to with straight presenting relationships on film. but yeah same. for me it was Season 1- Is will gay Season 2- Is will gay for mike Season 3 - Okay yeah, Will is gay and it's for Mike. (personal confirmation) Season 4 - Okay yeah, Will is gay and it's for Mike (duffer brothers confirmation.) Now . . . is Mike gay for Will? Season 5- coming soon.

[@monovision566]

@@HelloJellojrl I’m not LGBT+ myself but I still think they began to telegraph it early. A lot of heteros just don’t pick up on any subtext that isn’t hetero.

[@ameliajones2898]

I love stranger things I’ve loved it for years but the Russian story line was dragged on for way too long. Hopper escapes in episode 4 then gets caught and sent back then he escapes again in episode 8 then he goes back in episode 9 then escapes again 😭 usually I’m a fan of hoppers storyline but when I’m rewatching season 4 I often skip any Russian prison parts now :(

[@serayvlogs]

Honestly when I am rewatching s4 I dead a** skip to the Hawkins parts LOL

[@misspapo3444]

Your commentary on the entire California story and characters were spot on. Argyle should not have existed.

[@ennuiblue4295]

I think it could have worked as a minor character, helping them out in a pinch, the schtick got old fast

[@221BBakerStreet]

I completely disagree that there were never any early indications of Will's feelings for Mike. One example, when Will wakes up in the hospital surrounded by his mother and Hopper and Dr. Owens et al, he's asked who he's able to recognise out of all the people there. He doesn't remember Hopper or Dr. Owens but when asked if he knows who Mike is, he stares directly at him and says "That's my friend...Mike". He was immediately able to remember Mike because despite being under the influence and control of the Mind Flayer, the part of Will that loved Mike was still so strong that he instantly recognised him as his best friend. Another example is when Eleven "dumps Mike's ass", much to the secret delight of Will, but when Mike makes any effort to get back into El's good books, you can see Will start to panic. He even reminds Mike at one point that Eleven broke up with him and tries to convince him that getting back with Eleven is futile. And the more Mike argues against that idea, the more desperate Will becomes. The fact that Will had romantic feelings for Mike was pretty clear in my humble opinion.

[@Gingersdad]

dude it was like 10 seconds of him starring till he realized it was his friend

[@221BBakerStreet]

@@Gingersdad Dude, the point is that he wasn't able to recognise anyone in the room apart from Mike. And it's understandable that he would initially stare at Mike because he was under the control of the Mindflayer. But Will was able to bypass that control because of his feelings for Mike. It's not rocket science.

[@nocturnalcove9736]

It's clear the Duffer Brothers have no idea what to do with their new season characters and just kill them off with Max as the only exception. Eddie could have easily done more and his sacrifice didn't even make sense. Mike has honestly become a bad friend to everyone and Johnathan hasn't been important since season 2. Steve is still the best character and has been since season 1.

[@kellifavazza8021]

I totally agree with a lot of what you said. I didn't care for argyle, I felt it was unnecessary. Mike made me mad because it seems as though he just forgot about everything will has been though and is being a shitty friend to will. I feel like they butchered Robin's character this time, she seems so different. If they try to put Nancy and Steve back together I will lose my shit. I want Steve to find a perfect girl, he deserves it and it should NOT be Nancy. And I hate that they try to make Nancy seem like a bad ass. She is NOT a badass. I also did not appreciate that hopper was just immediately alive. Like what. They could have played with the idea a little. I thought "the American" was Brenner or something. Also, Joyce just happens to have 40k in the bank and she just leaves the kids to go to Russia? Idk, things seem weird with that. Also, I absolutely HATE what they did with the lab and the other kids (2-10) or whatever having similar powers to El. In season 2 when we met #8, it seemd like all the other numbers had different powers. But 8 was just... not like the rest of them? Idk, that was a weird choice and I really didn't like it. Plus EL being bullied. Plus they all seemed to he talking a lot... then why did El hardly know how to talk in the 1st season? It was all weird idk

[@kellifavazza8021]

ALSO, wasn't Nancy a senior the first season? It was so weird that Nancy was still in high school this season

[@kayu.]

@@kellifavazza8021 no she was a sophomore

[@doomfox6241]

I feel like El may not have talked do to just not wanting to, or being scared because she hadnt interacted with people outside the lab before. Maybe she was worried she was being listened to, or shed accidentally say something that could put her or her new friends in danger. All speculation though because El is barely humanized.

[@snowclifford8376]

Here as a counter point for the Russian plot line; I honestly thought this was one of the bast story lines the show has placed out through out the entire show, although the story of the show itself has a lot of parts that needs to be placed together, the show itself is pretty fast, which not a bad thing at all, yet the Russian story line was so clearly different from the rest, it was slow, it had a lot of character development mainly through dialogs, and the scene where hop is in the "barn" thinking that he had escaped, covering himself with warm layers and sitting on the floor eating peanut butter like a little boy while crying, the exhaustion, happiness, relief and so much more emotions that are showed and felt in this scene is what making it the best scene in the entire show, for how perfect it is made.

[@EmonEconomist]

I agree, I enjoyed the Russia storyline in S4 - in fact it was the only plotline this season that didn't annoy and frustrate me.

[@kingkaiiius]

For the California plot line with Will being gay and in love with Mike, it would have been nice to introduce another boy from school as minor character (not being involved with 11, upside down, etc) and Will having subtle hints at him being attracted to this boy. Meanwhile, Mike may have noticed and eventually respect Will’s sexuality as the episodes grow. That would have been healthier I feel compared to Will and Mike’s friendship potentially being ruined by overbearing feelings 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@kirbyandstargaming8886]

I AGREE

[@yeahbuddy7217]

its fiction, the plot doesn't have to show healthy dynamics

[@mochimellow4188]

Max, Lucas and Eddie honestly carried this entire season and its so disappointing that Eddie is gone and Max is probably going to have a much smaller role next season.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

"Would it be too much to ask for this in a show that is already so long" absolutely not. We've had so many scenes this season drag on and on just for the spectacle of it. Gosh the entire Russia plotline could've been resolved in 2 episodes as a B plot. That Mike speech to El was atrocious. And it even affected the painting dialogue, which also dragged on. We had a montage with Argyle making pizza, for goodness sake. There was absolutely time.

[@AkiH203]

I also think there was way too much filler. I think the lenght of the episodes was unnecessary and - this might sound real negative- pretty much done just for the writers egos about how epic show they made. Looking back at the season, I remember a couple of plot points and situations, but there really didn't happen much.

[@LunaWitcherArt]

@@AkiH203 I think it is less about the writers' egos and more about what Netflix demands of them. The creators wanted the show to be an anthology, but the characters were so beloved that Netflix wanted them to continue with them instead of making a new series every season. This is literally their cash cow, so I can certainly picture some exec being like "make it bigger, make it more epic, make it stand out" so that they can bring more people in and use the show as the main attraction of the platform.

[@bruhdon4748]

Season 4 was great compared to season 2-3, season 1 was legitimately perfect & it should’ve ended there. They always seem to spoil a good thing.

[@germanacola2234]

Am I the only one who thought that the characters of Angela and her gangs were a little bit useless. I knew they served an excuse as why Eleven went on the lab, but I thought that they could make a story without them and I thought they made Angela and her gang sociopath bullies without a reason. I thought that Eleven's bullying was really exaggerated.

[@mochimellow4188]

That's not exaggerated at all tbh. A lot of people expereinced bullying like this in high school.

[@MoeSzyslak20]

If that isnt exaggerated, what would exaggerated look like? ​@mochimellow4188

[@anonymous891]

You have made very good points tbh!! Also the fact that every main character just doesnt die in the series doesnt add much threat of villain tbh. And also i would like the story arc in s5 with will dying rather than el mainly bcs el dying feels too predictable at this point bcs it happens in most of superhero movie plotlines but will dying would be poetic and tragic bcs it started out with him and would end with him as well!! I think that the whole thing of Mike being heart of the story they should have spent more time on him perhaps even more than the Russian storyline. He was perfect until s2 then in s3 too I kind of liked in fact that was one season where we saw his and el's relation bloom the most and I believed it was going to be used well in s4 I won't deny they did it to some extent but also undermined Mike's character a bit too much and it feels it's beyond repair for some reason. I feel like they need to strengthen and make his character be what he was in 1 and 2. Then automatically their relationship would be much more stronger too and I am emphasizing so much on it bcs I feel their relationship for some reason is very central or kind of heart of the whole series!! (And also adding in lucas,max,dustin and will its also their friendship)

[@leahpelotte910]

Can we remember that this season was done when there were still a lot of covid restrictions. Which is probably why the Russian plot line lasted as long as it did. I love the new characters. With covid restrictions and having to split up the actors for the plot lines, without the new characters it would be boring. As for other points, there were probably some things they had to change from their initial plot line to keep it interesting and worth watching due to covid.

[@kaylynnlorrainetoney967]

I love your videos, keep up the good work. Especially the spring break video that you did and euphoria, this one is also a really good one. Made some very valid points within the Stranger Things of certain plot lines that were weak. ❤️❤️

[@artatmidnight]

thank you! I'm so sad my Spring Breakers one got blocked in almost every country lol but glad you got the chance to see it! excited to make more long-form videos soon 💗

[@TK_Danes]

I want to add perspective Note: I haven't seen even to S3. I'm behind, yes Okay, as children, we can take open friendships as love. You feel safer and able to express can provide that curiosity. Nothing wrong. I do agree just because, friend, does not mean romance. But that's the thing with love. Love isn't necessarily about your gender or sex or occupation... but familiarity and safety to be curious For example, I don't see a reason for 11 and Mike to be an item. It didn't have to be romantic at all caring and being there. To be considered and to be there for someone shouldn't equate romance. We need it to be normal that you can have open platonic relationships with any genders and sex

[@TryingToWakeUp-qb7iu]

"We need it to be normal that you can have open platonic relationships with any genders and sex" Why?

[@baby_its_the_biscut_boy]

5:15 this is not in fact a love triangle at all this is more like a love corner or just unrequited love because to our knowledge Mike doesn't love will and he supposedly loves 11 and she supposedly loves him

[@kirbyandstargaming8886]

literally

[@birbwho]

this show (and even the comments!) forgetting about Jonathan is the one thing that frustrates me the absolute most. He's easily my favorite character so seeing him getting sidelined over and over is really heartbreaking. I don't mind Argylle himself, but adding him only took away form what little screentime Jonathan already gets. I understand they wanted to give him someone his age to talk to, and that's fine, but he did not need to stick around for the plot, clearly since they wordlessly eliminated his character for Season 5 lmao

[@luna-moon-n]

Hello! I saw your first long-form video, which was a while ago, but I'm happy to see you doing another one. I love it! Stranger Things is such a complex show, and can be broken down in so many ways. Since there is a lot of interpretations possible. Your opinions are so well thought out and enjoyable to listen to. Thank you for making this! It made my day a lot better.

[@artatmidnight]

Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm going to keep making long videos because I find them so fun to do. This definitely gives me motivation to continue 🫶💞

[@itscherylplayz8925]

Hopper, to be honest, didn't need to be alive it would've worked better for Eleven and Joyce's character arcs. Eleven has lost another father figure, and now needs to get on in the world once again without one and has an even stronger urge to kill Dr. Brenner. Joyce would've learned to tell someone she loved them without hesitation because of what happened to Hopper. There really was no reason for him to be alive

[@hassansulaiman3848]

Fr bro it just made that heartfelt sacrifice in season 3 so pointless

[@Luv4Series]

Right, I'm sorry to say this, but I was okay to let him go. The Russian plot added nothing to the story imo

[@itscherylplayz8925]

@@Luv4Series seriously like what was the need

[@KhadijahsMamma]

They could have done so much with Dustin. No father, no siblings, bullied at school, rejected by girls. A lot of trauma. Vecna could have tortured the hell out of him. And Steve could have been the person that helps him through those attacks. Instead of killing Eddie they could have injured him or trap him in the upside down. Because I think they’re going to bring him back to life in some weird way. I think they should’ve kept billy alive too. Switch his personality with the help of max. They could have a traumatic past for argyle. Made his trauma the reason of his smoking habits. And now that he’s in town be a victim of vecna too. Kali should not exist.

[@neptuniantreasure]

realistically, dustin wouldn’t be the one to become one of vecna’s victims. he’s very self assured despite the bullying nd is the optimist of the group. vecna preys on people with weakened minds due to trauma - dustin doesn’t suit his MO. i do think the same thing about eddie (definitely could’ve saved him) but not so much billy as he had no other storyline outside of max nd the actor asked to kill him off. similar with argyle - he’s really just meant to be comedic relief in an intense atmosphere, which is nice to have. them adding another “/iam14andthisisdeep” storyline with another side character they’re likely gonna kill off in 2-4 episodes is a little old now. no offense to you, just sayin 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️

[@KhadijahsMamma]

@@neptuniantreasure yes that’s true but it could be a wall too. However, after the game they made they indeed can’t do it anymore because vecna tried already in the game. But, if something happens to Steve this season it will definitely affect Dustin. I love Dustin, I don’t know why Will said Mike is the heart of the party. Dustin is in my opinion. He always had ideas. Made Mike and Lucas solve their issues. Accepted eleven super fast and easily in season 1. I’m referring to him asking her to make the ship float. He guinenly (I don’t know how to write that in English) cares about everyone and doesn’t have his ego in the way. I feel like a lot of the main characters struggle with their ego but Dustin doesn’t. Idk if the writers purposely kinda ignored it so they can adress it in the last season. Maybe through a fight, a vision of vecna or something else. But I always become extremely annoyed with the mains not really acknowledging how important Dustin is. Maybe because he’s a bit goofy, and a bit reckless by keeping dart.

[@milay543]

THANK YOU. I really disliked Argyle because he felt like a caricature of an 80s stereotype (just like Eddie, although his character was better developed). While he did counteract some of season four's darkness, most of his jokes were poorly written and fell flat. In any other show, he would work well: something just made him the wrong decision for Stranger Things. I also disliked the attention placed on the Hawkins' jocks...why couldn't more screen time be given to the original characters? And you're spot-on about Murray! The Duffer brothers really ruined him by exaggerating character traits that worked best in small doses.

[@maja2526]

I really enjoyed this video, great remarks ☺I liked S4, but I was skipping most of the Russia plot, I think it's also fault of S3 where Hooper was horrible to Joyce and Eleven, but showrunners didn't seem to realized that (?). I found the cliffhanger rather funny, because I didn't care at all what happens to him, and it carried to this season, despite my love for Joyce, she should have run from him not try to rescue him...

[@Octobris]

For a Golden Boy Mike REALLY has nothing to offer to the group.

[@jpxfrd6924]

When I first learned that Hopper is alive and being kept in Russia I hoped that it is for giving an audience a chance to learn about Russians. They apeared out of nowhere in season 3, I don't understand how they learned about Upside Down, it's honestly quite cofusing. But we didn't get that. This plot exists only for Joyce having something to do this season.

[@fxtmata]

100%. The whole russia plot meant literally nothing because all people wanted to know was more about their connection to the UD, how they even got the monsters there, how they even KNOW about the UD? But no, none of that was answered and i’m honestly not surprised if it won’t be answered next season. Whole thing is just so bloated.

[@Elnont]

Characters like Billy and Hopper worked the most because they had real complexities. Billy in particularly was obviously not a great Persian yet the audience understood why he was that way. They keep killing off or changing they’re best written characters… strange.

[@lucijapaula]

I don't think Jonathan's personality in S4 was a stoner. That was Argyle and you could clearly see the difference the moment Joyce told Jonathan that she has to leave for Alaska and Jonathan is left in charge. Until then he is shown high multiple times, but the moment he is in charge he doesn't get high once, while Argyle does. Jonathan uses weed to run away from his problems and previous trauma. That's why he doesn't take a single picture in S4. Even the only classroom scene with Jonathan isn't a photography class which they easily could have done - it's a woodworking class. Clearly there is something wrong with him besides being high and he tells it himself to Will in the last episode - he was running away from his own problems. Is saying better than showing it? No, but there are so many characters that at some point you can't show everything. And yes I agree - Jonathan didn't do much and besides deciding to leave Lenora and go to Hawkins (a plan that almost instantly goes sideways) he didn't really affect anything, but also giving Jonathan the realizations Argyle had would be dumb and out of character for him. The reason why Argyle works is because he doesn't think like the rest of the party, he brings something new - who else would have thought to have a mind fight in a pizza dough freezer, who else would have gone looking for a small woman named Nina only to find army vehicle tire tracks? Not Jonathan. Jonathan was too busy thinking they were lost. And of course it could have been written in the show differently, but also Argyle has my favorite line of S4 so I can't hate on the guy (Open our minds?! There's an open grave in front of me, man!! ). Jonathan's relationship with Nancy for me also made sense and the conflict that arose from their long distance relationship was believable and relatable. Jonathan genuinely cares about Nancy and her accomplishing her dreams and Nancy genuinely loves and appreciates Jonathan - even the very same thing that is driving Jonathan to lie to her - his relationship and care for his family. Now those are two people who understand and love each other. Nancy not once makes those same comments about Steve, she never even respond to Steve whether it be his invitation to a double date or his Stancy headconan/traveling around the country with way too many kids. Those aren't things that Nancy wants and ultimately I think Steve is just confused so he is turning to the only relationship that has ever worked, and he should just accept his self worth without a woman by his side. something As for Will - I didn't think his attraction to Mike came out of nowhere. I watched S1-S4 back to back for the first time so it was pretty consistent with what I thought Will was going through with all the little comments about him in S1, seeing his friendship with Mike in S2 and with their fight in S3. The curious thing with Will is that in S3, the moment he realizes that yes MF is back for real, oh shit, he stops caring about his own issues because that's the kind of person he is. Obviously what Mike said had hurt and changed something in their relationship and he had destroyed castle Byers because he was hurt by that, but he also knows that there are some things more important that whatever he is feeling because if he ignores those problems, people will die. He even refuses to talk about it with Lucas in S3 and his main and only focus is dealing with the MF. So him being in any other situation beside being stuck in a car, not able to do or change anything, would just mean he puts his own internal issues on a pause. Again. So it made sense that Will finally does something (not enough) about his own feeling now that he literally can't do anything else. There is a lot I think that happened with Will and Mike in S4 that we aren't explicitly shown or told yet, but fingers crossed it will come back in S5 (most of it being byler related, and I don't think it's much of a love triangle when Mike and El both obviously don't love each other like that and probably would have broken up in the pizzeria if Argyle hadn't interrupted them so it just a matter of time and appropriate situation now for it to happen), but I'm not going to get into it. My point is I don't mind if a character isn't the main focus or maybe that interesting in one season if it is addressed and affects the next one which it seems it will for Will and Mike and Jonathan since they are now back in Hawkins and back together with everyone else. And I hope that what ultimately happens is that by the end of s5 viewers will look at S4 differently in regards to some character relationships or moments - that the next season will give it a new context. And I don't just mean byler (if it even happens), I mean in general - Mike's monologue to El or Nancy's internal struggle about Jonathan or Nancy's friendship with Robin or Argyles whole deal, whatever.

[@Meeekuuuu]

I like Eddie and Robin a lot but I honestly couldn't stand them when they kept pushing for Steve and Nancy to get back together. It annoyed me so much that they were trying to convince Nancy to get back with her ex just because she and Jonathan were struggling and it was not only disrespectful to Jonathan and Steve, but also to Nancy. Relationships arent perfect, just because she and Jonathan are going through a rough patch doesn't mean she should instantly run back to Steve. And damn Nancy was annoying too, constantly drooling over her naked ex. It made me wish she was just single.

[@justpeachybaby5929]

I dont think it was exactly pushing I think they're actually gonna make all 3 for separate ways in 5. Or 1 out the 3 will die. It was clear nancy was conflicted with the both of them so it may not be a shocker if stancy aren't together in 5 for the fans.

[@FridaAvosetta]

I wish there was more discussion around Argyle being the only real brown POC representation, heavily implied to be indigenous, and for that character to be portrayed as very very reliant on substances and having very low intelligence. Like yes he brings comedy and he’s incidentally helpful but if you look at his character as a whole it’s actually a really disgusting portrayal

[@breerex4957]

Does lucas and his family not count as POC?

[@FridaAvosetta]

@@breerex4957that’s why I said brown people, specifically Indigenous. I think they did a fantastic job with Lucas and his family but just because they did well with one demographic doesn’t mean their representation as a whole is great

[@impastabowl2328]

Man, I really do feel like they did Jonathan dirty

[@hassansulaiman3848]

Me too

[@kirbyandstargaming8886]

Jonathan was one of my favorite characters, so seeing how they massacred him in season 4 gets me SO HEATED!!!

[@soulserenade.kcn1992]

S1 Jonathan was the best. I absolutely loved his scenes with Winona Ryder. They carried a certain charm and magic and worked really well together. We need more scenes of Jonathan and Joyce!!

[@gthewolf7948]

​@@kirbyandstargaming8886jonathan is boring. Him became nothing after s2.

[@EmonEconomist]

I hadn't thought about it but I love the idea of deleting Argyle (much as I enjoyed his character) and letting Jonathan replace him. As you said, Jonathan could have been the driver and could have worked at the pizza place. Argyle's other function was as a confidant for Jonathan, but instead we could have had Jonathan discuss his conflicted feelings about Nancy with Will (which would have brought them closer together and potentially provided an opening to explore more of Will's sexuality), or Joyce (to see more of their mother-son relationship - most of what we've seen between them was their fighting in S1) or even Murray (after all, he was there when their relationship started). The downside would be that tonally, all the Cali kids other than Argyle are quite moody, and it would've been harder to bring some mucch-needed levity to that storyline.

[@necropolis004]

The Duffer Brothers really need to kill off at least 3 main characters in the next season because there are literally no stakes when all you do is kill off side/minor characters. We really do not need four or five separate groups full of multiple main characters.

[@AkiH203]

I think there is no point in trying to make it edgy anymore. I really, really, really hate how much people there is, but it's the last season, let it have a happy ending and run it's course. People are gonna be upset whoever you kill and it's gonna be a mess anyway 😂

[@LezCharming]

Great vid! In regard to Russia,it's always dangerous to split the party of characters. I would have kept the characters unified through each part of the adventure. After the events of Season 1,it makes sense that they would stick together.

[@kizunadragon9]

The cat was out of the bag much earlier about Will. He confessed being gay to Mike in season 3 i think it was when mike said "it's not my fault that you don't like girls" and i totally agree if Will was in love with Mike he would have started showing signs much much earlier. But yea I really want Will to have his "im not afraid of you anymore" moment in season 5

[@flower_girl4983]

I feel like some of these characters are added bcos famous people wanted to be in this show, since it became popular

[@Blazing004]

I think Robin’s personality change was some sort of trauma thing or something

[@oneday7574]

Yeah maybe anxiety from the Russian situation, that’s what I thought

[@cameroncouvillion1718]

I think people forget that in season two the guy number 8 takes El to kill tells them the doctor survived. So it’s not that crazy that they bring him back from that standpoint, but overall yeah I hate this season. The show is no longer the same show it was in season 1

[@LettyMapstheWorld]

I always love your analyses/deep dives! I just wish you could post more because your content is really interesting! You’re really great at this!🌸

[@ZiggyVanZandt]

I disagree with your point on Joyce in season4. It was super interesting to see what was once just a normal mom, to go to Russia as a secret agent and save hopper. That’s a whole arc.

[@giuliac9735]

Actually I thought Will had feelings for mike since the previous seasons... I cant remember when it started to feel that way but I remember wondering if it was me reading too much into it or if there was something there, so it didn come out of the blue for me!

[@justpeachybaby5929]

And me they made it obvious in 3. However I do think it's shown to be one-sided. I'm not saying mike and el are end game but I don't see byler happen at all

[@pilotman463]

Elevens backstory was very very weak including Vecna but I’m mostly upset that Brener didn’t serve a bigger purpose and had a stronger connection to not being redeemed There was so much potential though

[@LunaWitcherArt]

I loved that Brenner wasn't redeemed. Vecna being One, and every other kid's powers deriving from him, and him just... being supernatural because? Hated that.

[@tarekbouwmeester]

​@@LunaWitcherArt im guessing that they r gonna explain that stuff in s5

[@just_tom00]

nah I fully thought El was the one who merked all the other kids and we were slowly realizing how fucked up she is when she hits Angela. Than we slowly release it was 001 who did it, we were wrong, and shes the hero all along

[@juonithzramos1089]

I loved Robin in S3, but I felt that the writers sacrificed some of her character in S4 bc they needed Nancy to shine brighter. Nancy and Robin were side by side this entire season, and if we had the strong, assured, loyal and brave Robin of S3, Nancy would look like the actual selfish priss she is. So Robin became neurotic and zany so that Nancy would seem grounded and capable. Which pisses me off bc Nancy does not deserve the spotlight/our respect. Also, Robin being neurodivergent was an added element that I really liked, but is it helpful if no one talks about it? Nancy, for all that she thinks she's a brain, didn't comment on it. It would have endeared her to me if she had a lightbulb moment and casually mentioned it to someone and canonized it in the show.

[@heelmoxley365]

Season 4 gets worse I every time I think about it while Season 3 gets better and better.

[@serayvlogs]

It's the truth. The more I rewatch those seasons the more I like s3 over 4.

[@gthewolf7948]

Wrong

[@coldgrandpa]

Honestly I disagree I think they shouldve just went further in with hinting at Mike's true feelings toward will. I dont think it is a love triangle bc i dont think el or mike truly love each other. Idk theres a lot of writing that needs to be done in order to save this show. I think it just needs to be way more obvious that that is what they are doing with mike

[@zolaeight7574]

The problem is that you are replacing the story that’s being told in the show with your own head canon and internet gossip. In the actual show El and Mike are in love. Yes they are awkward and have insecurities but are working through them. You can’t invest in a relationship for four seasons and change it in the last season. Not enough time to actually starting and developing a romantic relationship between Will and Mike. It’s okay to ship them but you separate that from the story being told in the show.

[@FKA91]

@@zolaeight7574 People are confusing Mike and El's growing pain as a couple with them not being in love. Yes, they can be problematic. But guess why? Because they're literally still children! They're 14! They still suck at communication, still suck at not being insecure, still suck at understanding everything and knowing what to do. It's normal! Look at Nancy and Jonathan! They are still terrible at talking things out too, it's frustrating actually 😭. And yet they're a top tier couple according to everyone. And I don't even like Mileven. I would rather Mike to have more scenes with his sister and friends who aren't Will instead of being stuck in a bland love triangle. But Mike and El arguing doesn't mean that they aren't in love.

[@zolaeight7574]

A lot of people don’t pay attention to the actual story in the show and focus more on POV’s from content creators and online comments. Yes, the writers could have written the El & Mike’s love story better - used to be my favorite, but they used to feel like best friends as well as lovers. I like the way they kinda reset Max and Lucas’ relationship after being distant and in conflict - getting them to open up and embrace each other in an even deeper way than before. They showed their us bond & didn’t tell us much about. They could have easily done that for El & Mike, plenty of time was wasted sun that CA timeline. But still, according to the show, Mike’s love gave El the courage/will to fight back against Vecna. I don’t how much more clearly can the writers make their love known. I wish people would stick to the story, and qualify their headcanons as such. My only complaint is that the writers should show us their bond as teenagers now, no longer middle-schoolers.

[@kirbyandstargaming8886]

​@@FKA91 Speaking of Mike having more scenes with his sister, I think we need to see more of Nancy and Mike interacting with Holly.

[@fumofumo7815]

I think El loves Mike but is on a bit of an impasse with him now. Mike's feelings are waning and he constantly lies to her. When Eleven hit Angela with the rollerskates Mike was scared. Weird, considering Mike knows Eleven has had the capability of murder prior with no real judgement. He saw her blow up like 6 agents brains. He kinda acted like a brother would to a sister who's in deep trouble. "She didn't look fine" "I care for you so much" You said love before, what's changed? At the airport Mike wore the wrong clothes. Argyle said it was a 'knockoff'. The whole time Mike acted cold to Will and didn't hug him right. Is Mike just a really bad human being, or is it deeper than that? I'd think the latter given I have hope for the Duffer's to make a good story.

[@ryanstauffer119]

I agree that Jason should have realized that Eddie, Lucas, and everyone else had nothing to do with the murders. His character arc felt so incomplete without him realizing that Lucas was telling the truth. The whole season, I was waiting to see him find out that he was wrong. Yes, if we never knew about the Upside Down or anything else that went on during the show, we too would have thought Jason was being a hero. With that, Jason wasn't a villain. He was an anti-hero. He was just trying to stop the murders. Save Hawkins. He just misunderstood what was really going on. And I'm sure the reason why we didn't see the whole town going nuts about the satanic panic is so it can be saved for season 5 in which they give the main character shit saying they're the reason why Hawkins is in trouble. Like Jason's friends wanting revenge over his death. But anyway, people need to understand more that Jason wasn't really a bad guy. I might be wrong, but I think he was inspired by Tommy Jarvis from the "Friday the 13th" movies. He even looks like him. Tommy Jarvis witnessed Jason Voorhees come back from the dead and commit murder, Tommy reported it to the police who didn't believe him, and so Tommy had to kill Jason to prevent anyone else from dying. Jason Craver witnessed Patrick's supernatural death, told the police how Eddie is a vessel for Satan and didn't believe him, so Jason decided he needed to take care of what was happening himself. I literally wonder if he was literally named after Jason Voorhees because of the character's similarities to Tommy Jarvis. Still though, I felt that Jason's story wasn't handled well. If he found out that the main character were good, he could have been helpful to them. We all hated Steve at first, but came to loving him. We all even disliked Billy, but he redeemed himself at the end of season 3. Why couldn't the same be for Jason. I wish he got a redemption arc. Similar to Harry Osborn in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy. He thought Peter killed his father, so he tried to kill Peter for revenge, then he found out Peter wasn't responsible, so he helped Peter fight the villains and save MJ, Harry sacrificed himself to save Peter, and Harry died saying the negativity they went through didn't matter anymore because they were friends. If Jason had lived and found out the truth, I think this is what could have happened... Jason wakes up after Lucas knocked him out. He sees Lucas holding Max in his arms and tells Erica to get help. Max says she doesn't want to die and Lucas tells her to hold on. Jason is confused by this since he thought Lucas was sacrificing her. He's surprised to see Lucas crying. And when the gate opens up, Jason moves away in time so he isn't killed. Lucas continues grieving over Max. He then tells Jason that this is all his fault. He explains that the walkman Jason stepped on was the only way to wake Max up because her favorite song was the key. He explains their plan on how they were going to stop Vecna. He explains that it's because of Jason that Max is dead, thus leading to the four gates merging so Vecna's army can come and destroy us all. Jason then comes to hating himself. Not just that his actions led to things getting worse with genocide. But also that he caused Max's death in which Lucas will be grieving over her, the same way he has been grieving over Chrissy. Jason hates how he caused someone to be just as miserable as him. When Lucas goes to the hospital for Max, Jason comes along, but Lucas tells him to go away. Jason tells him that he promises he'll listen to everything that has been going on, but Lucas is too pissed off and too upset. When the rest of the characters appear to see Max and Lucas, Jason apologizes for everything he's done. Then when hearing from Dustin that Eddie is dead in which he sacrificed himself to give them all time to kill Vecna and with Dustin telling Jason what Eddie told them on how he tried to help Chrissy, Jason gets emotional. He wishes he could take back how he was with Eddie and wishes he could thank Eddie for trying to help Chrissy, despite it involving the drugs. He would wish he could thank Eddie that he appreciates Eddie being there for Chrissy since Jason didn't know about what Chrissy was going through. Even if the characters show Jason Chrissy's file along with Fred's, it will make him further know that Lucas was telling the truth. Jason will tell his friends that he was wrong about Lucas, Eddie, and the rest of Hellfire. He wants the characters to tell them everything so they can understand what they're up against. With this, Jason would be shocked to know what actually happened at Starcourt. Over the course of the next two days, Jason tries to convince the police and everyone else in Hawkins that Hellfire had nothing to do with the murders, but he knows no one will believe him about the Upside Down and Vecna. When the California group arrives, he tells Mike he's sorry for the ugliness he's going to receive from the town since he's part of Hellfire. With meeting Eleven, Jason will say "So, you're the superpower girl they've been telling me about." Jason and his friends can tag along to help out at Hopper's cabin. They apologize for trashing up the place a little bit since Lucas told them that Eddie was hiding there. And when Hopper arrives revealing he's alive, and with him telling everyone his side of the story, this would be when Jason's trust would ultimately be hooked onto the group. This would be officially when he knows they are not lying and he would stand by their side. Now, I did want Jason to find out the truth sooner and team up with the group this season. When Jason saw Patrick's death, I thought that would be when he realized Eddie had nothing to do with Chrissy's death. Imagine the two of them together and Jason listen's to Eddie's story on what happened. We could've had an important moment with them together. Even if they did team up, I think Jason and his friends would've liked Eddie's guitar solo. As for Eddie's sacrifice, Jason comes to help him and he says "Why'd you do that?" and then Eddie would say "Because... Chrissy would want you to go on." But Jason sacrificed himself instead, Eddie would hold him in his arms and Jason would say "I was wrong about you.... You're all right... Go. Do it... for Chrissy." But if Jason did make it for season 5, here's what I think could've happened. If Vecna decides to have more people fall under his curse, I can see Jason being a victim. First, he would see a dead Chrissy telling him that he wasn't there for her when she was being haunted by these nightmares and that she's mad at what he tried to do to Eddie. Then a dead Eddie appears blaming Jason for his death since he was being hunted by him. He blames him for turning the town against him. And that now Eddie will never graduate. Then a dead Patrick appears saying that Jason didn't even try to save him and that maybe he wouldn't have died if he did hunt down Eddie. Then a dead Max appears saying that she's dead because of him stepping on his walkman and that he wouldn't listen to Lucas. And that now, because of his actions, the gates merged and everyone is going to die. She will say "Lucas was right. You are a raging psychopath." Then Vecna appears and says "They were weak... just like you." This would anger Jason enough to fighting back and say "This is for Chrissy! And Max! And Patrick!.... And Eddie." But in the end, Jason would die, but with sacrificing himself to save Lucas and/or Max. With that, Lucas would hold him in his arms saying they'll get him help, Jason says there's no time. Lucas says he wishes he forgave him sooner so they could've patched things up by the time working together to take down Vecna's army. But Jason says that doesn't matter. Jason says he's glad that Lucas and Max are alive because that means they get to live a happy life together since he and Chrissy won't get the chance, but he's glad knowing he'll be reunited with her now. And he says he's glad he died knowing that he and Lucas are still on the same team. Jason should've died as a hero. Him dying from ignorance just doesn't work. Without a redemption arc, it just feels empty. The death he had with being ripped in half should've been for a true villain. Like Grigori in season 3 when Hopper threw him into that machine. Or the guys that were harsh to Nancy in that season in which how they died at the hospital.

[@BasementDweller_]

A Johnathan supporter is refreshing to see.

[@ameliabaer3860]

Would you consider doing a video on the other characters that you think are just as strong or stronger in S4? Also I generally like your stranger things takes!

[@LunaWitcherArt]

Lets be honest, the only good things regarding characters came from Max's storyline and other characters interacting with her. Steve was trash, Nancy was trash, the entire California plot and the Russia plot was trash, from a storytelling perspective.

[@ali773n]

Robin sucked. How did she go from cool mysterious girl to panic attacks all the time. And that monologue at the asylum was so cringe.

[@alexharman9001]

Argyle was fun, but if he’d never existed we wouldn’t know to miss him. Instead of the largely ineffectual stoner version of Jonathan, I would have liked to see more of his protective/supportive big brother persona, extended to El as well as Will now that she’s his de facto adoptive sister. In that version of the story, he’d be worried about the bullying but unsure what to do about it, since it’s mostly being done by other girls. If it were a clique of guys bullying Will, Jonathan would pick a fight with the one instigating it and probably win (as we saw when he fought Steve in season one, he’s a lot tougher than people expect a geeky loner to be), but he couldn’t deal with Angela that way.

[@EmoBananaSummer]

I didn’t like how they wrote Jason as a villain he’s actually a good guy and his rage at Eddie is honestly understandable but them making him convinced the whole town that a teenager is a killer was very irritating to me, as well as them making the cops completely useless. Something else that irritated me was Nancy and Steve flirtatious relationship when most definitely her and Jonathan are going to be endgame, it made sense that Steve was still in love with her but for Nancy it didn’t and it just made her character unlikable. Lastly and I don’t know if this was on purpose or not but I didn’t like Mike’s speech and how he constantly refer to Eleven as a hero when that makes her sad like she clearly doesn’t want to be a hero but has to be and also to me it seems like she thinks that’s the only thing that Mike likes about her sense she became insecure abt their relationship after she lost her powers

[@ennuiblue4295]

I thought so until he blamed Lucas for their friend's death. They kind of whipped through that one, and wasn't his takeaway 'Lucas put a spell on him' or something? I don't even remember, except that it made no sense

[@EmoBananaSummer]

@@ennuiblue4295 yeah but his rage at Lucas is understandable

[@fumofumo7815]

It was a cool scene but he shouldn't have been killed off like that. He should've somehow realised he's in over his head and completely wrong about Eddie and everyone else after Eddie died from unknown circumstances. If he at least died after comprehending what he's done and for what purpose that might've been a better way to take it. Killing him via portal rip seems more rule of cool than story wise.

[@fumofumo7815]

Also Mike didn't seem to really grasp anything beyond "superpowers" with Eleven so I hope they just part ways completely as partners. They've had it OK but this many tumbles in a relationship is unhealthy. Mike not being able to express his love for Eleven very well after four entire seasons of never being able to simply means he either cannot love Eleven or really hates the word Love. At all points throughout the seasons he has extreme difficulty portraying his care for El. Also Will told Mike that he's the heart and that's what pushed him. When he first said I love you Eleven didn't seem to believe it because the vines tightened.

[@justpeachybaby5929]

It's so refreshing watching an analysis video from a creator that's not a big fan of byler or can see the flaws. Such a good video

[@adammartinez8061]

Unpopular opinion: I get why they focused on El in The First episode but I think they should’ve explored How The Party and Hawkins were Fairing and Coping after the events of Season 3 In Episode 1.

[@ghostinlovewithaflower]

“My life started the day I met you in the woods!!” Mike was capping the whole speech, I think him and El fell out of love long ago. Also that’s the day Will went missing 😭😭

[@fumofumo7815]

Yeah Mike made those words up on the fly. Even more-so considering Finn literally improved half the speech. Almost like something's changed with Mike's opinion on Eleven.

[@idontuploadanym0re]

who was the best character in s4 in your opinion?? to me it’s a tie between Max and Steve. Max’s storyline had me gripped the whole time, and Steve is just Steve (one of my favorite characters in fiction)

[@fumofumo7815]

I don't like characters trying to set up Nancy and Steve. It should be wholly Nancy's choice. That's my main point of contention with it.

[@Seablobel8]

I agree. There were way too many characters this season and many from the previous one were butchered

[@Frainbowarrior]

When I watch video like this I realise how people forget about season 1 Jonathan and how people completly misinterpret Mike in season 3 and 4!

[@HuguFota]

the way you connect with us viewers is just amazing!

[@SAArcher]

I hated the Russian story line. I finally just had to fast forward through it whenever it turned to them. I really don't know why people like Hopper. He is loud, mean and abusive. And he couldn't take 'no' for an answer from Joyce. I hate that she finally took his pushy behavior and gave in

[@sylwianowak2287]

I liked Hopper in season 1 and 2, in season 3 he was much worse, he change into completly different character. I also don't like ship Joyce and Hopper, I liked their friendship, Hopper was supportive towards Joyce and tried to help her. But no, they have to give romance everywhere, there is no space for friendships between man and woman.

[@CrashNTheBoys2002]

Yeah I don’t get how people supported such a toxic relationship. Hopper seems like the kinda dude to slap his wife after coming home to a burnt casserole.

[@blissfullycat02]

I tend to wonder if they intentionally left Mike and Will,and also Jonathan to a point, out so much because they plan to refocus on them in season 5... They literally set Mike up as the main character season 1 with Will being his focus so I can't see them just writing them off without reason.

[@DLxxx]

They did have a reason. The reason was that the writers simply didn't know what to do with them anymore, and what little came to mind wasn't well executed because it wasn't a priority.

[@EmphaticNod]

I cannot stand for this Enzo slander! Or whatever his name is... Dmitri. Seriously though, I feel like he would have been much less effective or memorable as a character if he'd been used as just a mouthpiece for the Russian agenda in the show. Actually, I think stating the Russians motivations outright or even giving too much information on _why_ they're doing what they're doing is not needed. We already know that the series is set during the arms race between the US and USSR in the early 80s. We know the Russians intended to weaponize the Upside Down in some way. What more do we really need to know? They aren't really the focus and they aren't _meant_ to be, beyond showing how far-reaching and consequential the events of the series are. And maybe to provide greater context for Eleven's origin. She wouldn't be the way she is if the experiments she was part of weren't part of the arms race, after all. Now, if your criticism is "What is the _point_ of all the Russian stuff on the show going forward?" I think that's much more valid. That's just a lot to dump on poor Enzo. 😋 He's there to spout wisdom and help Hopper develop as a character, and I think that's fine. Its more than Argyle does, at least.

[@someonewhosnotyou6874]

will is so underutilized it hurts me so much, ever since season 2 when he was one of the main things i still felt he was underused and then he was completely ignored the next seasons it made me so upset because he became my fan favorite