The Cold War Between Guitar Shops and Manufacturers - Strategic maneuvering for survival

[@anthony1068]

I've been in financial services for 20+ years, and we had this same paradigm shift over the years. The insurers are selling DTC, and they've put a ton of money into advertising on television and the internet. The investment companies have started doing a lot of that, too. In my field, what I've found is that the way to navigate through the battlefield between is and them is increased communication with the client base. Every 90 to 180 days our clients get contacted. I don't sell a physical product like a guitar, but I think that what you've done with the KZbin channel is huge. I wouldn't have found y'all without it. And the videos aren't all advertising about buying from you. You're giving value to the marketplace. Keep up the great work, and thanks for all you do.

[@mltproductionstudio]

An hour long of these two rambling!? Honey! Get the whiskey!! 🥃

[@chipcaronte]

Hahahhahaha... Cheers 🍻

[@GuitarFinds]

🍻 💯😁😁😁

[@markinthemix6055]

I can really appreciate how you guys keep an eye on the rhythm and heartbeat of the industry. A smart business mindset is being able to rationalize the volatility of your business. I’m in business and it’s like your climbing a mountain every single day. Managing your next move in marketing and product development can be challenging when you’re trying to survive in a market that has declined or disappeared. Sometimes it can feel like you’re talking yourself out of business but you manage the power of “one more”. One more day and if you’re decisions work out you managed 365 “one more days”

[@paulh4954]

Really interesting discussion. Appreciate you guys' balanced viewpoint - even though you sit in a particular seat in the process - as do all of the participants from manufacture to dealers to customers. I really learned a lot of the process and thank you for your time putting this together. I will say that I LOVE Casino Guitars!!! The quality of your shop is only bested by the personalities and hospitality of every one of you and your individual personalities!!! Even though I just found your shop, I feel like more than just a customer, I feel like a small part of the family! I've found my guitar shop for life! Thanks again!

[@fettuccinealraver]

I work in marketing and this video has been an absolute treat for getting some behind the scenes insights into the guitar market. Answers a lot of questions that I’ve thought of given the state of the instrument market.

[@morganghetti]

Im never going to order straight from the manufacturer. Going to guitar shops as a kid / teen was always a rare and special trip for me. Id bang around on Guitars i obviously couldn't afford for hours and was never mistreated by the employees. Im not going to abandon them now that I can afford that 335 or American Tele. We have to keep that experience alive for young guys.

[@jdfeldstein]

Yes, Casino has amazing guitars, but it’s the knowledge and insight you guys share that’s the real value of a great guitar shop

[@Ten2More]

Many other places just put out guitars with obvious problems - if they aren’t set up, might as well just buy direct. Not paying to get competent and good staff makes a store no better than the internet.

[@jdfeldstein]

Exactly!

[@HometownMusicHVA]

As always, fantastic video, guys! We really appreciate you using your platform to shed light on the industry. The more informed people are, the better for music instrument retail at all levels.

[@GoonersLA]

When im in some unfamiliar town for the first time and spot a record store or guitar shop it just makes my heart smile. I know the community thats required in making it possible.

[@rsrmotoltd1144]

I’m in the UK. I’m in the market for a Player 2 Tele. It’s interesting that dealer prices are lower than they are Fender’s own site. I’d buy locally but there isn’t a dealer for miles. I’ll get one online, probably from Anderton’s because I appreciate what they do with their YT channel.

[@SamHollidayV]

Looooooooove the long videos dudes! Blessings and peace be upon you!

[@andrewbecker3700]

Gotta admit, I'm impressed with this whole 10pt. breakdown of how manufacturer direct sales could effect the guitar market. It's a dicey time to be in the game right now. Having your finger on the pulse of the guitar community and understanding what players want. Is gonna be more important than ever, to have any hope of survival. This is a bold move, to lay out your opinions and sides of the coin. It is, what it is. Better to start sorting through the situation, openly discussing how you feel. Than let it come back and bite you in the ass. Grab the bull by the horns and hang on for the ride, it could be a bumpy one.

[@raj_d2178]

Great discussion - appreciate the candor.

[@stevenorton8442]

My local brick an mortar shop is dying a slow death. He doesn't carry the big brands anymore because he can't cover the minimum order. He mostly relies on lessons, setups and restrings and used product. It's really sad. The online mentality is hurting a lot of businesses. I support my local shop as much as I can.

[@klew5988]

Same here. And it's in a city of over 100,000 people

[@RobertNolan]

They need to develop an online presence to stay floating above water. I discovered Telluride Music Co. because I walked into their shop and followed them online immediately. It's a really small store and they focus on fewer items of higher quality, but they spend a lot of time to cater customers online as equally as in store.

[@brettpennington2951]

Thank you guys for going over this. Lets hope some of the reps from the companies see it too

[@stephencook4577]

Great insightful discussion. Helps me understand my local dealers a bit better. I always try and prioritise them over online but sometimes you just can’t.

[@Vanswithbenefits]

I appreciate you guys not going into so many off tangents in this video. I like when you stick to the topic :)

[@PaulEldridge1]

Thanks, that's a lot of ground covered! It's important that multiple perspectives are revealed.

[@dmac3316]

Great discussion guys, thanks! I’m still old school and am a brick and mortar fan. I’m in Canada so it’s a bit of a different market place as we have to contend with more exchange rates, taxes, import fees, etc when looking at buying online. I’ve bought a couple guitars online but didn’t enjoy the process. I’ll rebuy a pedal or something I regretted getting rid of through an online store but if I’m buying a guitar, amp, something new or untried I’ll go to a store.

[@SlowOldMe]

Good show guys. Just keeps getting better.

[@kcsvantasticvoyages9729]

I love, love my local Ma and Pa shop. Especially their personal services and ability to offer their perspectives and advice to help me. Plus, they can also let me try different guitars out, too! That's impossible online! Remember this, please. Big fan of try it in person before you buy it here. That statement, "It's a human business>is the key." Unless someone is a hermit.Right now it seems like the market is still flooded. But, just like with automobiles, a salesperson can still help out a customer to find right one for their needs.

[@charlesdavis5942]

I enjoy your honesty humor and perspective 🤙🤙🤙

[@MarcStanton1]

@@charlesdavis5942 Totally! The Casino crew is just a blast to watch- And I feel like I trust them like a friend even though I don’t know them

[@MarsGuitarOfficial]

Wonderful breakdown guys a lot of things in the business will always coexist;)

[@DaveMcCall]

Sometimes there are really good products that the designers/engineers clearly were passionate about and put a ton of effort into... but there are just no customers interested in it (or at least not enough to purchase even the initial production run). The trick is putting that passion and effort into something a lot of people will really appreciate (with dollars). Example: I've had an idea for a pedal that combines a wet/dry blend with an expression pedal... so you can dynamically change your wet/dry for an FX loop of pedals on the fly. It would really take my sound to another level, but I don't think very many people would pay for that.

[@mileswatkinson8135]

Good topic of discussion. It's nice to get a view from the inside of the industry, and you guys are very fair in your way of looking at these things.

[@johnwashburn3793]

As a life-long self employed person with a business management degree, I found this discussion fascinating! Several decades ago I discovered one of my suppliers also owned a competing company. I switched suppliers. This has been happening in other industries forever.

[@JuddLofthouse]

Cool video that thanks I enjoyed that 👍long but well worth it

[@Rich-ur4kv]

What's happening in the music industry is the same thing that happened in powersports. I opened a music store almost 3 years ago. Powersports went through the no MAP and dealers discounting everything down to invoice. To having MAP and then the 2007/2008 financial crash. I have been going back and forth with 2 manufacturers and arguing about orders. The problem we are in is that these companies' forecasting is terrible. Things were going crazy durring covid supply was way low, they thought this would keep going and it didn't. So now we have too much inventory and not as many sales. I was a district sales manager in 2007/2008 and was losing dealers like crazy because of too much inventory in the field that the previous DSM loaded in the dealers. Some of the manufactures put on the breaks and adopted an order management system where they took orders quarterly for a rolling forward 90-day sell-through. Now they all do this it keep from having too much inventory in the field or in the warehouse needing a home. They would have a minimum line representation depending on the size of the dealer and order commitment would adjust for in-stock inventory vs sales.

[@paulcody8973]

1. Went to your website per your plug...love it! The photos are art...put a little bit more of that on your KZbin vids! Musicians are appreciate art...and I'd value having photos of all of the guitars I've bought and sold over the 7 yrs I've played guitar...and I only have pictures of them when I've sold them on Facebook and they're all with my living room rug...decent rug, but... ugh! 2. I am a Strat fan as well, It's my favorite guitar...I own only one 'Player' (Mexican) HSS Strat... I play the other electric I have way more often...and think...hmmm...this isn't as good as my Strat.

[@paulshurmon138]

Thanks for the video.

[@Ten2More]

Simple. Guitar shops need to do what the internet can’t - maybe host an open jam somewhere locally to make relationships with musicians and keep them playing locally to buy more guitars. Or hire a person for a few hours to coordinate it. Create a local scene and client base.

[@James-vr5wh]

Love the shoutout for Donny Rod!! Dude was awesome when I worked at GC.

[@kcsvantasticvoyages9729]

You guys seem like the type of cool music store that I would enjoy the experience of shopping at, that's a rare compliment. I think that corporations are seeing an increase in their bottom line by online presence. I use to have to travel 50 miles just to see a Fender authorized store"s lineup, good case in point. Maybe we should have a mobile shop, lol!? My GC here is understaffed and overwhelmed by traffic there,maybe corporate expects miracles I guess.

[@johnkontos]

I reckon a lot of these big manufacturers have been eyeing out the Apple way of doing things and have been moving slowly towards it for a while: Keep everything under your control, build that walled garden for the "users", sell direct, offer exclusives and have a few flagship stores in big cities where people can try out things (while fighting off the tourists). It's all supposed to be fun, and this sounds like no fun.

[@ehiracheta]

I was like....an hour....oh...pause...grab a soda and a bag of peanuts....LETS GO.

[@MarcStanton1]

Aggressive marketing is really a thing now during holidays. This being the beginning of Labor Day weekend, My Sweetwater rep texted me on on Thu. and asked what gear I was currently into. Long story short he’s shipping me a silver sky SE for about 20% off.

[@dondavidson9619]

Great insight reminds me of my time in the fishing tackle industry

[@DaveMcCall]

The reason retail is dead for most consumer products is that most products are no longer serviceable/repairable. You'd always get your appliance or gadget repaired by the store you bought it from. If it was under warranty, they'd send the warranty repair bill to the manufacturer. If it wasn't under warranty, you'd just pay for the repair. That's no longer relevant for many products (unfortunately, IMO... I wish everything was repairable). But for music instruments, it's still completely relevant. Instruments really haven't changed in how they're made (ever). They're just as repairable today as they were in 1965. Music Industry manufacturers need dealers to service the products they make. They need each other. When you buy direct, where do you take the instrument for repair or service? The shop that went out of business because the manufacturer put them out of business by selling direct?

[@MarcStanton1]

I went into my local Guitar Center yesterday and was talking with my longtime sales rep. I was expressing my frustration that every time I go into GC it’s just so impossible to do anything. He took me aside and told me they unlocked all of their guitars under $5000, even in the acoustic room so you can actually try this guitar then that guitar then another guitar without trying to find a sales person. This was a necessity since they only have three people working the whole front end of the store. There is a warehouse crew but they stay in back and there was a top manager not seen anywhere.

[@TommySG1]

Over here in New York they’re still locked up on the wall and it’s just gotten me to the point where I’m just not going to go there anymore. It’s a hassle for the buyer and the salesman too trying to do three things at once.

[@IAM_Reedy]

My wife and I were discussing this very topic the other night. 😊

[@friedtaters8940]

War never changes

[@ryangunwitch-black]

As far as the brick and mortar store going away, I don’t think that will ever happen. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve gone into a shop for strings and left with a guitar. 😂 Some expensive strings. Because I was able to pick up and play that random find rather than simply adding it to a site’s wish list and scrolling on. I can’t be the only person who’s experienced this. I bet shops make a lot of sales like that way.

[@MarcStanton1]

@@ryangunwitch-black impulse buys. Yes I’ve done that. Sometimes when you’re not shopping for a guitar you find very exceptional ones. I learned many years ago to play 20 if you can before buying the one to make sure it’s the one. But when it is the one you need to buy it (Taylor 910, Clapton strat). The Taylor is still in the family

[@TommySG1]

I was just thinking about this the other day regarding exclusive models, for instance : Gibson now has their dark walnut models on the LP’s, SG’s and 335’s that you can only purchase via Gibson. This stuff is certainly hurting the local businesses and I don’t see it stopping either, sadly.

[@TommySG1]

PS ~ I do wish you dudes were located over here in NY, I’d be there shopping and chilling out regularly. Dig your feeds guys.

[@shoer5151]

I bought from fender direct ,it was a great experience had the guitar in 2 days no hassle Way better experience then dealing with sweetwater where I waited 2 weeks to get the guitar

[@mikemcsween1847]

Great topic! Wondering if you’re hearing from customers of QC issues coming direct from mfgs? I personally bought 6 guitars online during Covid, two from direct from mfgs - both went back. Fender is not SW. Fender’s QC to dealers is very diff from dealers’ QC to customers. Cheers!

[@johnbriggs3916]

Nice to see the Acoustasonic Jazzmaster make a cameo appearance 😉

[@misternobody4786]

The difference is service, brick and mortar or virtual.

[@m.d.4949]

This is opportunity for a "Boutique" guitar production, which some of them are the "TOP-NOTCH" quality guitars (Suhr, Tyler, Xotic, LSL, ...), to enter in the retail stores more aggressively. After all, I love a store, love to bargain for the "good" price or just to take a probe, to see what is knew and to have "My guitar store". This is my couple of cents.🙂

[@xxGriff]

It's still reactionary. Not a single manufacturer knows how this will play out or when it might change. The manufacturers are also not so fast to course correct. it is what it is. Personally I prefer to have a person to deal with. its all good until there is a prob or issue. Then, your rep is Chrome, Edge, Safari and Gmail. Smith v Nash comes to mind.

[@CurranKevin]

The timing of the image of the accoustasonic was brilliant.😂

[@johnbriggs3916]

Not just any Acoustasonic -- it was the Acoustasonic Jazzmaster! Literally the third attempt to flog a dead horse. (We pointed out at the time that the first Acoustasonic was actually one guitar for the price of two...)

[@jamieb7799]

I think the result will be dealers will sell more boutique brands instead of the majors & this will lead to more small guitar brands getting into more hands because buying a guitar is a tactile experience that can’t be replaced. I believe the major brands will end up on the wrong side of this eventually. But the dealers will have to implement a transition plan before they end up a slave to the major brands or close shop. I can see independent dealers forming buying co-ops to form a “strength of numbers” dynamic and kicking back against the DTC brands. Start doing some content on quality lesser known brands. My local shop (big regional city in Australia) just yesterday told me that “Music Man” & “Ernie Ball” had recently decided to go direct as well.

[@DaveMcCall]

Dealers NEED MAP to stay in business. Margins are already a bit on the slim side. When dealers do a lot of extra value-add for customers, being undercut by a high-volume, low customer service store is devastating. Shop at the stores that actually care about you coming back and try to learn what you like.

[@Bulldoggy-v3c]

love watching you guys havent watched one for a while im thinking johnno has lost weight (great work bro.) ..........Its simple sales and production was inflated beyond anyones expectation during covid.................Anyone running a manufacturer should have dealt with this but they didnt...........The problem is they are desperate, sales would be under what it was before covid and now they have ten years inferior stock ahead of them...............Roasted timber on necks etc they make it seem like an upgrade..............GUYS IT SO ISNT ITS THE LOWEST DOWNGRADE AVAILABLE.....................but we believe what they say. As a manufacturer the only people who will survive the next five years are the ones who concentrate on quality and not profit......Hope this makes sense ...............Love you guys take it easy :)

[@Otterman316]

Likes of the Gibson garage could be the blueprint the large manufacturers go to. The direct selling was just the start. Once online sales boom I don’t think Fender and Co will care about pissing dealers off by opening their own shops. If they can offer discounted guitars via online and their own bricks and mortar stores they have every angle covered.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

I may be in the minority, but I have a local music shop that is tremendous. I don’t play but my Grandson does. They treat him as if he is their only and first customer. They help him with everything. I support them by purchasing everything from them. Customer service should be rewarded by customer loyalty.

[@MayorMcCheese2000]

You guys have clearly worked tirelessly for these manufacturers, and now after all that you've gotten the shaft.... it's total bullshit and I'm glad you guys are standing up for yourselves!

[@johnwashburn3793]

Y'all may not be in Las Vegas but you are still Heartbreakers!

[@hod8931]

Only guitar Ive purchased direct was a cutom shop 61 335 from Gibson because my regular store didnt have one in stock and said could be 8 mo out. Yes it was during the covid time. I would rather buy from people I know and can talk to about the item.

[@ShawnBrockMusic]

Even Martin started selling direct to consumer. I was very disappointed, as I remembered 30 years ago when I was a kid my local Music Store was a dealer for Martin, Gibson Taylor, Fender and many others. They were a very small store, but had these great dealerships. I remember when Gibson and Martin started requiring them to buy huge amounts of merchandise, $100,000 per year or so, and away went the dealership. So Support for the dealers from the manufacturers has actually been decreasing for a long time. I think it’s pretty stupid myself, and bad business. But who am I, I just play the damn things.

[@markinthemix6055]

Yes … we live in a TIME and it’s a strange TIME and you really need to consider that we are living in a time of “PEOPLE LAST” I am absolutely blown away that dealers tolerate the Gibson Demo shop and whatever they call it online shop that post new guitars weekly 😵‍💫 how can a dealer deal with that. It’s another Gibson psychology science project on the heartfelt guitar and music lover. I watch absolutely every Trogly’s show loving the idea of the guitars with blemishes, nut problems, the paint went wrong so we put a stinger on it and a couple stripes and raise the price 2-3K and sell it with minor blemishes. Wow. 🤔

[@andrewhess2978]

I was pissed the other day when I saw Epiphone advertising DG-335s “back in stock” for direct sales. Meanwhile, my local shop isn’t due to receive their order till mid-November. And they move Gibson Murphy Labs, so you’d think they’d have some level of priority fill.

[@johnperiard9594]

Been there! 28:36 Great video.

[@GreggBennett-j3p]

I’m at a loss to understand what I’m supposed to take away from this video.

[@69spook]

It's all smoke & mirrors .... 💨🪞

[@MichaelBethke-ni6zb]

I purchased a guitar during the slowdown. IT it came from a dealer and I had to take it to a shop to get it set up and playable.

[@adamgarrett4758]

Without lay-away i couldn't get the guitar I want. I don't want five $300 guitars, i want one American Tele. Poor people love the shops. You can't get this service from online or direct from manufacturers.

[@danieljaymeshansel5086]

You can get financing online almost everywhere like reverb, GC, sweetwater … and you get it right away not on lay away. I’m all for financing and lay away options, I had to do it with all my gear I bought new. Also to me it seems that retailers selling used will help lower prices all around- more choice for yhe consumers, as well as price competition it’s a win for consumers IMO.

[@MarcStanton1]

My GC rep told me yesterday they don’t do layaways anymore

[@turdferguson3091]

I use zzounds they do no credit check financing 0% interest. So I was able to buy my first gibson that way. It's actually better than gc.

[@adamgarrett4758]

@@tomholman4991 I have... I want 3 of 'em👍

[@johnsmith-ug5tp]

I did not know, Baxter is the owner. ha I deep dived your site and your bios. Very impressive along with your store. Also you live in a beautiful state and town. Yeah, I was totally lurking.😟😱 🤣

[@johnbriggs3916]

Well, half owner -- his wife owns the other half 😉

[@johnsmith-ug5tp]

@@johnbriggs3916 Package deal when ya married. ha

[@rmzzz76]

My thoughts: Gibson is owned by private equity, I believe Fender is as well. C.F. Martin still private family-owned, Taylor private "company owned" but the bottom line is all of these companies are prioritizing profits and survival because that's just the way Capitalism works... It's not about what's best for the customer, it's about how much will the customer tolerate and not impact our bottom line... Case in point, early in the video it's mentioned that even brands known for solid quality checks out of the box are declined in this area... It's about "how much will the customer tolerate". Brick & Mortar store fronts sell in part of customer service and I don't want to live in a world where I can't take my guitar to store I trust and get a good setup or fret job done, but these businesses need more than revenue from services to survive.

[@WinstonWhite-l9j]

The new normal that’s coming: A large part of the country will be unable to physically try a new guitar before buying…

[@RobertNolan]

Buy a guitar from a store and help keep it open, get your guitar work done by that store as well. Tell people about that store.

[@synonyx]

Fender is the one really at the forefront of this "cold war". They were doing about 17% off Ultra Strats this weekend PLUS if you had a fender play account you get an additional 10% So a guitar going for $2249 -my cart said total was $1637.99 a 27% off deal. A mom/pop dealer couldn't do that much I'm sure. This is unfair to the dealers for sure. Dealers will make sure end customers will have better brand experience overall as usually the guitar would have been inspected and setup to a players liking. If dealers could do huge discounts on say Fender for example, they would sell more and thus dealers would re-order more Fenders thus emptying Fenders warehouse. Pure cash grab by Fender. It's the only time I've bought direct and it will probably be the last time. Fender is incapable of offering customer service on these levels. They would have to hire an entire team just to do a second QC and a setup before it leaves the warehouse. I will also add, that same model, fully in stock on the website, but out of stock at every dealer's website I looked at. It's possible Fender is holding back inventory for themselves.

[@babagadoush1]

Yall start building!!!!

[@ryangunwitch-black]

My local mom and pop does a lot of church business so they’re generally able to cut those prices a bit. Martin CEO-7? $2999 instead of $3199 or whatever. Great shop. Great prices.

[@babagadoush1]

I want that hat!

[@roberthelpus]

I've never heard you mention Ibanez, while you mention Yamaha fairly frequently. I would guess that Ibanez is a bigger seller in the US than Yamaha. The Ibanez that I have owned and currently own are fine instruments. My Yamaha saxophone is pretty darn good as well.

[@Michel-r6m]

Manufacturers made shops sign for like 1000 guitars a year and the big re-sellers kept them to this at the loss of quality. More and more guitars that where rejects ended up in small shops and these were told a reject is just a set-up. So many small shops stopped carrying big brand guitars opening up a niche for smaller brands with good after sales. To be honest I do not care if Fender or Gibson go bust. Fender and Gibson do not care about the player since the re-seller is their customer.

[@sup1e]

For years the manufacturers Needed dealers to market their guitars. With the internet and people's willingness to buy online they really just don't need them nearly as much anymore. Things could shake out in a variety of ways(Fender/Gibson showrooms etc) but I think local music shops will probably be around for a good while. The smaller shops could get crushed in the crossfire or manage to slip by being in smaller towns/markets. The big manus going dtc seems more like a corporate(vs GC etc) battle lol

[@Michel-r6m]

@@sup1e Well if you skip the reseller you need storage (just one example) to have guitars ready for shipping.

[@xray606]

I don't even know how anybody survives in the retail world. I make about 3/4 of our products that we sell, the rest is reselling other brands. We make so much more from the products we make, I often ask myself why I even bother with the other brands. I feel sorry for people that have to sit there, scratching and clawing it out with a million other guys, over selling the same stuff.

[@khrys_maxwell]

Owning an independent shop in coastal SoCal, I can tell you that MAP pricing results in zero profit due to the cost of rent 😬

[@19sickboy71]

I don't think manufacturers will ever take out or not need the brick and mortar shops...there are still buyers who want to try things hands on without having to ship back n forth.

[@archer4556]

This is just me, but I will never buy direct from the makers. I want hands on.

[@mattsanders5922]

If a guitar shop does and excellent setup, and some customization on the guitars in their stock, they have value added. Otherwise, if the manufacturer is shipping guitars that need no setup it's just a meaningless middle-man with mark-up. If I were a guitar shop, I would import overseas OEM product, customize it, do an amazing setup, and forget the brands that are just using the retailers... Frankly, 2/3rds of the "lower tier" of most of the "big brand" guitars are no better in quality than the overseas OEM "generics"... Additionally, I would pair back on amps, and start pre-loading amp sims, like the Tank-G with awesome amp and cab IRs, and focus on "complete solutions". I think this is the space where a guitar shop could make a killing and get a loyal repeat customer-base.... Figure out how to do good amp, pedal, and cab IR captures (since you have the physical inventory and equipment) and advertise that! That's where the gold is today! Besides the ability, due to the internet, to market and sell direct to consumer, the BIGGEST change, also due to the internet, is the ability for the consumer to do product review, and learn about different guitars from their couch at home. It is no longer necessary to go to a guitar shop to gain this knowledge. Additionally, most guitar shops don't actually have this knowledge anymore. That's why I think adding value to "cheaper" base products as mentioned above is the way to go. Most "high-end" buyers already know what they want. I think focusing on this tier is a money-loser. Additionally, focusing on "old gear" will continue to be a losing battle as the baby-boomers die off. Digital audio processors are so good today that even my dog can't tell the difference and getting twice as good every 2-4 years.....

[@XoseGuitar]

I don't get how MAP are not an anti-trust violation for price fixing.

[@johnbriggs3916]

Well, that was novel: that was the first time I have heard someone summarise his talking points by reading them out backwards 😉

[@kenzuercher7497]

Having played guitar since the mid 60s, I've been following the business for a very long time. I can't help but think that the market is so oversaturated that it will be difficult to ever recover. Even with inaccurate at best estimates of the total number of guitar players, Every Stratocaster that will ever be needed has already been built and sold! The Boomers (like me ) who augmented their guitar collections are starting to pass away and their families will be putting their collections up for sale, overall causing a glut on the market. But who am I to talk? I have three Telecasters and had four. My collection totals 10 but I have friends who have 50!

[@allenmitchell09]

I’m a drummer and have more guitars than I do drums lol but yeah you’re right, how many guitars do we need produced given how many are in circulation.

[@starfighter2952]

Casino should find a local builder. And have them build ten guitars to casino specs. And start from their. And have builder not build same spec guitar for anybody else.

[@babagadoush1]

This!

[@starfighter2952]

@@babagadoush1 ?

[@NintenDub]

For a cpl guys with a shop, that make no money on selling guitars and running a guitar store, their wives must be doing pretty good cuz after years and years, they're still doing this store somehow and paying the electric. At least they're happy that they get paid in certain amount of time on playing the nice guitars that they sell but don't make money doing. It's like all the KZbinrs who do it as a job,but say there's not much money on KZbin, yet all they do is KZbin, and they're making AdSense and merch sales and patreon and courses and sponsorships. But there's barely any money in KZbin, so you should just watch them and like and subscribe but not start a channel or anything cuz it isn't worth doing cuz there really isn't any money in doing it

[@DiogenesCaulfield]

remember how disco killed playing live for a few years but then punk grew to become nirvana, its in botton of the next cycle, the edm and non-music phone era will also pass

[@Michel-r6m]

My local store does not carry Boss and always complains about Fender 😅

[@wewin03]

Driving dealers out of business will be the death of the manufacturers. I personally, won’t buy a guitar unless I’ve actually have touched it first. Forget the QC issues, sometimes you have an idea of the guitar you want until it’s in your hands and you don’t vibe with it. And just imagine if you need a repair. Where are you going to go? By the manufacturers, I’m assuming they mean Fender and Gibson, need to tread lightly.

[@revelry1969]

They just need to slow production. Sorry…building more and more and more and more seems stupid. Unfortunately the new guitar business has been a dying breed for a very long time. Market is very saturated.

[@11000038]

Just buy at your local shop. Get the right guitar. Maybe pay a bit too much.

[@allenmitchell09]

Gibson and Fender are getting their ass kicked from the Far East. They’ve watched the videos too and know what we want, and they’re providing it.

[@softsouthernknight]

I am seeing a lot of over-priced guitars and the manufacturers show little innovation. I think that brick and mortar dealers should be the only sellers of guitars.

[@jackhood4448]

What’s up dudes

[@thomasallen832]

It’s a bumber if you ordered a high end guitar that doesn’t work! Let’s be honest here! Just like Harley Davidson the guitar manufacturer doesn’t give a damn as long as your check clears! Pay $1500 to $2000 or more and then need someone to set it up, another $100-$200. This is a ridiculous practice and it’s the normal way it goes. As a shop owner I charge double for the online buyers! They have no other option because the online store they bought it from will charge for shipping and everything that I do for free with purchase from my brick and mortar store. And the high end guitars are trash these days from the factory! Fender and Gibson are overpriced and they can blame their greed for their failure!

[@johnbriggs3916]

One criticism: there was a total absence of data. How would your arguments have looked if each one had been underpinned by data?

[@matthewdeheus3124]

As someone who works in a guitar shop, I think the guitar companies and are overestimating their ability to deliver a guitar that is playable out of the box directly to the consumer.

[@johnbriggs3916]

They are also overestimating their ability to sell direct to the consumer.

[@matthewdeheus3124]

@@johnbriggs3916 Agreed. I think they can grab the impulse buyer and the type chasing badges or marketing. I find selling guitars is a consultative sale. Most of the guitars that people bring in for non-specific playability issues have been order online and the person never touched them before they bought them.

[@rustyshackleford288]

Tons of dealers keep sending offers for barely over their cost on all Fender guitars, way better deals than Fender ever gives directly. I would only by from dealers giving those deep discounts. Are they offering such low prices to compete with Fender?

[@agent_o_range]

The problem of today’s business models are that doing good isn’t good enough anymore. If you don’t grow you are dying in the eyes of today’s market. The profit has to increase every year and it’s that or die trying. And that attitude is killing the healthy market.

[@NuTsi33]

its all about prospective here. at the end of the day if fender or gibson or anyone knows for a fact they will make more money doing dtc they will do dtc. thats all there is to it. if they will make more money cutting off dealers they will. gibson showed us when they ran that tractor over those guitars, they arent a guitar first company anymore. as a dealer, pumping other sections of the shop is a good idea. repairs, lessons, used gear, CURATING!! music isnt going anywhere. youre a dealer of music not prs or gibson. yes you have the rights to sell them, but thats no all you can sell. my local shop sucks, i want nothing more than a shop that i can go into and pick up and try a few necks, test out a few pickups. but every guitar no matter price is strapped to the wall. gotta ask someone to come over and unlock it, and put and lock the other one up, coz you cant have more than 1 out at a time. blah blah you have put together a spot i would love to be in. the kind of shop youre excited to go to even if its just to get strings. sell yourselves and youll be fine.

[@Cut2Finish]

You need brick and mortar stores. Guitars are not even consistent along the same models. If I can't get my hands on a guitar, I'm not paying thousands of dollars for it.

[@WinstonWhite-l9j]

You would get the exact same sentiment from someone looking to buy a saxophone or cello…

[@alanpettibone]

I get there has always been greed in the musical instrument industry… but it was always thinly veiled. Now the likes of Fender and Gibson just wear that greed like a badge of honor. I, for one, will only buy from my local store and never new from Fender and Gibson.