The Danger of Denying Works (w/ Pat Abendroth) | Theocast

[@cindymonk6994]

Content has changed many lives. Jon and Justin, please give each other more lights for Christmas 🎄 😮

[@GaryWGrice]

I thank God for you two. I see the faithfulness of God before me that He still sends workers in His harvest all glory to Christ!

[@Friepaps]

These two episodes were so good to listen to. Q: Do Christians ever need to examine themselves?

[@THEOCAST]

Yes! They are in unrepentant sin

[@TL-yl5tp]

Great show brothers, keep up the great work to proclaim rest in Christ!

[@THEOCAST]

Thanks!!!

[@carlgobelman]

Another great episode! As always, the guardrails of confessionalism protects us from the inconsistencies of biblicism and pietism.

[@melakellys]

Thank you, Brothers, this was excellent!!!

[@THEOCAST]

Thanks!

[@jayrubin6765]

Great discussion and explanation.

[@jburghau]

Excellent. Thank you so much.

[@blank-964]

good stuff

[@thompsonxander]

Can you explain the Calvinistic interpretation of: Not that I have already grasped it all or have already become perfect, but I press on if I may also take hold of that for which I was even taken hold of by Christ Jesus. Brothers and sisters, I do not regard myself as having taken hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Therefore, all who are mature, let’s have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that to you as well; however, let’s keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

[@corbinbrosneck790]

Regarding why people feel the need to say "but don't forget works!" It is, with certainty, a response and reaction to progressive Christianity in our culture. Sometimes it is even explicitly so. That's why it surged in popularity in the last 50 years- as a popular response to the sexual revolution and its dastardly consequences. Progressive christianity (an oxymoron perhaps) is frustrating. But we cannot therefore make the gospel into a gospel of works. The burden is easy, the yoke is light.

[@daniellim8964]

Works are NOT works of the true standard of the law, for Christian living but works of being profitable and godly fulfilment with the help of grace. . Respectfully . .

[@walterhardesty4700]

Please recommend the best Bible translations that are accurate.

[@joenr-d9v]

ESV

[@trishaaguayo367]

Respectfully, I want to share this quote from the late Herman Hoeksema who authored, Reformed Dogmatics. After very close scrutiny he came to the conclusion that this notion of CofW was an erroneous view. These (from pgs. 308-312) summarise his carefully developed analysis and arguments. However, this does not mean that Adam did not stand in a covenant with God. He most certainly did! 1) It finds no support in the Word of God, but is an unwarranted deduction from God’s command to Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 2) The covenant of works postulates a period of probation for Adam, at the end of which he would have received eternal and heavenly life, but this is impossible for man except through Christ (I Cor. 15:47). Also the concept of Adam’s entering eternal life in heaven has imbedded in it the idea of merit, a notion abhorrent to Reformed theology (Luke 17:10; Rom. 11:35). 3) This view raises other problems: How long was the probationary period? Would Adam have entered heaven with all his posterity? What would then happen to the earthly creation in which Adam was prophet, priest and king? 4) The covenant of works makes the covenant between God and Adam something incidental to Adam’s creation, for it was added to Adam after his creation. What was Adam’s relationship to God prior to this covenant? 5) If one looks at the whole concept from the viewpoint of God’s sovereignty and wisdom, His original intention in establishing a covenant of works with Adam ended in failure and God found it necessary to resort to another plan to accomplish salvation... "Adam was a covenant breaker and the entire human race broke God’s covenant in Adam. But God sovereignly and wisely, for the sake of the realization of His own purpose, moved Adam aside to make room for the second Adam, our Lord Jesus Christ. In Him, God’s grace is fully revealed and the riches of God’s covenant, greater than they ever could be in the first paradise, are lavished on the elect church for whom Christ died, the head of the true human race." (This came from an article found on prca website and offered a far more better explanation

[@Anteater23]

Was Demas saved ?

[@ryanjamietaylor1134]

The part I don't understand is these "fruit-checkers" will send people to hell so easily. Let's say someone is smoking cigarettes and swearing.. someone might say they are unsaved. But what if a week ago they were a heroine addict and just got saved? That's why looking at our works,,, never WORKS! Our inward work sometimes isn't obvious to others. Also, people have a different opinion of what Christians should look like based on their idea of a good Christian.

[@BornTwyce4]

Brothers, the Mosaic Law was NEVER considered to be a covenant of works; such a notion is read into the scriptures - because this particular law given to Israel and was never expected to be obeyed entirely concerning God for the sinner would have had to obey the entire law to be made right with God and obtain eternal life. Even the Law written upon the heart of sinful man could never be obeyed fully nor lead to life. The Law simply pointed out our sin and was a tutor that led to Christ and His righteousness. The Law is not of Faith. Man is justified by grace through Faith; even apart from the Mosaic Law such as Adam was. Adam NEVER belonged to nor was under the Mosaic Law as to live by it. The Law was given to the unrighteous. Pre-fall; Adam was without sin - so why in the world would he be obligated to obey such a Covenant? The command of the Lord to Adam was also pre-fall and before his eyes were open to both good and evil. You are conflating the Law given to Israel with the unique command given to Adam in the Garden. There is no such thing as a "covenant of works".

[@danv4046]

God required Man to Love HIM with all His mind sole spirit in the Mosaic covenent to put everyone under disobidience so only Jesus would be capable of doing that and setting it aside! In new Reality pass the cross, we are Loved By God and we become Objects of Love and assistence from the Spirit so that the New creation spiritual being would get all the nutritions and sustenance from the Source..

[@danv4046]

From Gods reality He says there is OLD and New two covenents Jeremiah 31:31-34 Acts 8 Hebrew 8 "" the covenant or the Will of a dying Man""" The ultimate will of the Father to His Son!!! The Son as Moses was given chance to stand aside and from Him a new humanity would be made.... But the Son decided to fight Win Over come Isayah 49:25 the Tyrant and free the fallen spiritually dead humanity The Son chooses to battle the Enemy, To go into the House of the strong, take the weapon away which was the Writings against us as the Law was impowering those debts"" Jesus took the weapon away nailed the debts to the cross Over came Let the captives free And left Us A Will and anyone who Chooses to Kiss the Son, believe on to the works of the Son will be adopted into Gods Family by becoming a Child.... Err co err with Jesus We all are Jesuses booty He Battled for Us All The whole world Was freeed from Sins and debts But only those who choose to Believe ... Surrender To Grace Mercy """""" Gospel""""""""" This Gospel is now Empowered Has Enough Energy bestowed upon it To resurrect Spiritual humanity ....... New reality Post Cross The will Becomes Active After the Death Of the testator New reality is simple Beautiful """ trust""" believe the Finished work of Jesus Rest- abide on the Wine- the choice wine that produced the two fruites the father was looking for 1. Justice 2. Righteousness Isayah 5:1-7 Jesus became that choice vine And shilo binds His ass and young ass to His choice wine Jesus produced these two fruites And we Rest in His finished work Aftet He said """" it is Finished"" paid for""" What was finished was Danial 9:24 ZacharaY 3:9 Leviticus 23:11 And much more Now the new reality consists of No more sins No more confemnation No more guild No more fear Live Love Be loved by Your God And allow Him to Feed you from His spirit As the Fruit of the spirit feeds you first You are fed by Him Loved by Jesus Helped by the Helper """ now you get to be The Belowed of God""""" You do not love God as the demand or law or criteria You are loved by him

[@danv4046]

The LAW never promised Nothing Spiritual! It delt with flesh, to condemn- letters written on stone as service of condemnation of Flesh for Wanting to Live according to the Knowledge of Good evil to Be like God!! The law if anyone would to obey all at all times would maximum grant you what???? Deuteronomy 28 Fleshly benefits But the curses ohh read the curses The law was given to: Reveal sin Multiply sin Make sin more sinful To show shadows foreshadowings like Peter seeing clean and unclean animals " God said" what i have Clensed- meaning now all are clensed forgiven Because Exodus 32:20 and 13:13 was fulfilled because God gave ransom to purchase the unclean animals whos life was worthless unless a ransom was paid But even that only provided " clensing of sins" 2 corinth 5:19 All world is Forgiven- purchased out! But now people have to Choose to Believe the Gospel to recieve the Gift of the holly spirit... freely Redemption by blood Romans 5:6-10 But salvation- restorartion of life through the holly spirit which Adam LOST when He Disbelieved God God was dealing with 2 problems 1. Sin 2. Everlasting death Adam Had Glory! Spirit of God Breath of God was in Adam making Him a living sole.... "" all fell short of Glory!!""" God wants to restore Glory... Death of Jesus forgave desteoyed all sins of all people making all Be Forgiven past present future So that.. After you accept the Goos news realizing the bad news first ofcourse... The spirit of God is restored into YOU And There remains no more sin which could Kill you again as accorrding to the Law of Sin and death given to Adam, if you sin again you would die.. Thats why Jesus had to forgive all people So that after they get Resurected through faith , by the power of the Gospel, now no one will ever die spiritually again Because There is no more sins......... God holds no more sins against people Now the gosple is the criteria You obey to believe tge finished work Yoy rest in Jesus Or You remain to Be dead but forgiven and you will go to hell because The Gospel who ever Declines the Gift of Holly spirit will stay Dead!!!!

[@BornTwyce4]

Brothers, the Law (bad news) should precede the Gospel or pave the way for the (good news) of the Gospel. The Law was given to a rebellious people (1 timothy 1:8-11). Furthermore, even the Law that's written upon man's heart is in regards to those born after Adam and after the fall; his posterity. Pre-fall Adam was not in need for neither bad news or good news - he was created upright and already in good standing and enjoyed fellowship with God. So why would Adam be under a covenant or obligated to obey any Covenant such as the Mosaic Law that's associated with sin and rebellion if he had not disobeyed God and was not found to be in sin in the garden pre-fall as of yet? There is no such thing as a "covenant of works" regarding Adam.

[@joev2223]

I haven't watched the video, but my understanding is that Adam was not under any covenant except, '"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat". That was his covenant of works. It wasn't 'keep the law and live' but 'don't do this one thing and live' As long as he didn't do that one thing, things were good. To maintain his relationship with God, this one thing was required of him. Under the law, in order to be justified by it, one must keep it without fail. One mistake and it's all over. As a born again beleiver, it's all faith. Romans 4:5 - "And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness," source:BibleGateway

[@BornTwyce4]

Adam didn't need any type of justification from God before he disobeyed; he was already in right standing before God. God's command to him was simply a command not a "covenant". If Adam disobeyed (which he did) then there was consequences resulting from his disobedience to God's command, not covenant. Adam was judged in regards to his disobedience to God's "unique" command toward Adam alone (romans 5:14). Adam's transgression is not like the transgression of those born after him because the command God gave Adam to obey apart from any sin was ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than the command God gave Israel while they were deep in sin. God's command towards Adam did not point out his sin (for there was none) unlike the purpose of the Mosaic Law; Adam had no sin prior to his fall. There is NO covenant mentioned in the scriptures at all in regards to Adam; this teaching is unbilical. The consequences that came to Adam regarding his disobedience was not a result of his so called "works" but rather his disobedience involving that one unique command. We can't disobey God in the same manner that Adam did regarding the Tree of Life. Gentiles disobey God regarding the Law that's written on their hearts and Israel disobey God concerning the Law written on tablets of stone. Nonetheless, Adam was neither under a Law written on his heart OR the Law written on stone tablets because this Law came for all those born from Adam and after his fall in light of those after Adam possessing the knowledge of good and evil. After the fall; every human being can rightly be condemned due to mere "works" of the flesh apart from Christ righteousness. However, the command from God to Adam to "keep" the Garden was a "work" not carried out in sinful flesh but from a nature that had not been tainted by sin as of yet. Therefore it wasn't Adam's "works" that brought about God's judgment upon Adam but simply deviation from what God had plainly spoken to Adam by way of command. Unless you want to attribute "eating" and "listening to his wife" ( genesis 3:11 and 3:17) as a work but that would be a stretch. Point being, there was no "covenant of works" that was involved for Adam didn't disobey regarding any "works" but rather simply "eating" from a tree that was forbidden and "listening" to his wife.

[@joev2223]

@@BornTwyce4 I can see what you're saying to some extent, but something was required of Adam to stay in right relationship with God. Something was required of those under the law. If one placed themselves under the law, they were obliged to keep it in its entirety. That was not the point though, the point was to show you your need of the promised Messiah. Anyway, point being, God's 'covenant' with Adam was 'don't do this one thing and live'

[@danv4046]

The law prophets the Book of the Law moses prophets all Was dealing with Issue of Flesh "" can the Flesh Live according to the knowledge of Good and evill and Become Gods"""satanic lie God helped humanity He revealed all that is good and evil And allowed them to try it out, to live according to the " tree of knowledge" the law To show all that it is imposible because no one could be GOD or as Perfect as God So the Law was tempruary from moses to until the coming of the seed Jesus You hear the words... Its tempruary from Moses when transgression multiplied until the coming of the seed to whom the promises were made.... As law all of it was weak... it was weak because of us Jesus fulfilled it Set it aside Replaced it by something Greater """" grace"""" God made a covenent with Him self As He couldnt swear by no one higher he Goes into a covenent with Him self and fulfills both sides in Him self..... Also doing what law demanded 1. Total obidience 2. Death He obeyed and died on our behalf as with Him all we died through agreeing with the law that we are siners, we died to the law... Our nature adams flesh was cut away by that death... And allowed us New Us to be born... Now we have nothing to do With NO law Moses Noone We are Free under the Mount of Zion the mother of all Free Children of God, and those who are under Sinai are slaves to the Flesh Law is for Flesh for Descendent s of Adam earthly... Law never had no promises for the spiritual being Jesus Brough a new reality that Deals gives Spiritual Reality And Now we can be loved by Our God And the Fire of His breath will not consume US As He dwells in Us forever

[@danv4046]

I am sad to see bright fellows who are stumbling because of their own theological history! Because they are not able to see straight because of all the " grids" theological non sense which was made up by their rabbi and the rabbi before them... and they keep quoting All the works of the previous And hundred of years ago some yahoo had it wrong now these guys are suffering.. That is what happens when simplicity of The Gospel evades you And when you try to make a living by being a teacher of the blind Blind lead blind