The dark side of fawning & autism

[@heedmydemands]

Yeah shit, this isn't the first time I'm learning about fawning. I relate so much. It's so hard for me to go against the flow

[@bradyshannon8452]

Men fawn too, its why a I could never say no, and had a nuclear meltdiwn after loss of my carrier..I just had to tell them I refuse to do that which I don't agree with, give it to someone who doesn't mind being a lier!!! Anyways, Im done fawning, now I am fighting..Thing is, I never learned healthy conflict resolution. Its pretty depressing, but I am learning.

[@ericxb]

proud of you dude

[@kalima7446]

How did you manage that? I also want to step up to fighting response but in real time in the heat of the moment, not afterwards when sh.. happened to me again due to pre-programmed freeze-fawn. Is it possible to override the nervous system automatic response? I don't think so. But I am glad for everyone that found a way out of fawn/freeze response.

[@Emma-nm6zu]

There were so many things I did as a teenager that I always felt so guilty about and never understood why I did them. Some of those things were related to romantic encounters. It is the first time I’ve even heard of “fawning” and I haven’t even finished the video yet but this is starting to make my actions make so much sense. The thought of embarrassing the other person felt like the worst possible scenario and I would constantly forfeit my own comfort. On top of it all, I had such a hard time understanding what feeling uncomfortable meant. So many things make me uncomfortable, I can’t tell when I want to or don’t want to do something. What frustrated me the most though, wasn’t even what I was letting happen to me. It was the confusion I felt about how other girls went through life. I didn’t understand what I was doing wrong. I always tried to mimic the other girls but some things I just couldn’t and still don’t fully understand what I’m doing wrong. I was bullied a lot in middle school and called names, like “sl*t”. I never understood how I deserved this reputation because I had never even held hands with a boy. It was because of instances when I would essentially “fawn” now that I’m realizing. I would be nice to boys when they flirted with me by basically smiling and I didn’t want to embarrass them. I never interpreted it as flirting back, and I didn’t usually like these boys. But to the girls who were watching, I was flirtatious and apparently flirting with other girls crushes and whatnot. I didn’t understand how I was flirting and therefore didn’t understand how to fix the behavior. In high school, fawning began to manifest more physically for a short time. I allowed myself to be in situations that made me so uncomfortable and I would be so embarrassed when others would think I wanted to do the things I did. There was so much confusion about my own actions and others perception of me. I struggled so long (and still struggle) with feeling so stupid and lacking common sense. No one close to me would guess that I could be autistic. But everything I’ve ever experienced points to it. I don’t care to tell others in my life about it, they won’t believe me. But I’m hoping it will allow me to learn how to help myself in ways I’ve never been able to before. Life has been so hard and I have run out of solutions

[@HomemakerDaze]

I've fawned so many times in sexual situations it makes me sick.

[@neon.neutral]

Its so hard. On multiple occassions, from someone hitting my car, to me too experiences, i first accidentally comfort them/validate them. Rather than saying what i really feel or think deep down and getting my own needs met. Sigh

[@Minakie]

I've had situations when I straight up told a coworker not to touch me on a particular day (because I could feel I was nearing sensory overwhelm). She not only ignored me but, instead of just giving me a quick hug like she normally did, she thought it was a good idea to give me a very tight bear hug. And I just stood there, my glasses not only crooked but also slightly bent, completely frozen in place, staring at my computer. I'm not sure if I was just in utter shock or half-dissociated, but I couldn't move for a few minutes. And no one at the office even noticed. I was as mad at my coworker for not respecting my boundaries (especially since it's hard for me to not only realize what I need at the moment but also voice it out loud) but also at myself that I had been unable to be firmer and either push her away when she got too close or walk away and put some extra distance between us when she started walking toward me. The mix between the alexithymia and the delayed processing makes it extra hard for us to self-advocate.

[@couch_turtle]

I'm not diagnosed yet, but finally got dates for a diagnosis in July. Maybe I just put a TW for SA or smth like that here. A while ago I had a first date with a guy in a café. We talked etc. Then he wanted to show me smth, don’t remember what he said, but somehow we ended up in his flat. He made a move and I got with it. In the act he stated many times that he didn’t liked it with a condom. But I always said to keep it on, cause I’m not on birth control and didn’t know if he was healthy. We kept going and after a time the condom slipt of accidentally. I taught her would take another one. But no he just continued blank. I was so shocked that I couldn’t say anything. As he finished he didn’t pulled out. I was expecting that he would at least do this, but no, second shock. I was so angry at him and me, cause I didn’t stopped right away. The biggest problem was that I was in the phase of my menstrual cycle where ovulation could happen anytime. So I was stressed out a few about being pregnant. I said I need to go home immediately after and he walked me to the train station. I never wrote/answered him again, but wrote a text that I wanted to send to him in case I was pregnant. Gladly I was not. I also tested my health a few months later, before my first relationship. What also came to my mind listening to your Story, was that I think I never really made the first step in intimate situations. So I kinda question if I really wanted all of these situations or just fawned going with the flow, to not disappoint the other person. I also absolutely despise kisses (except the soft short ones you gave your close family as a child) and think I maybe in the asexual spectrum somewhere. My first relationship also didn’t worked out, cause I couldn’t give him the affection/love language he needs. I also didn’t had such strong feelings as him. And felt like he didn’t really get me and my differences. I also have bad meltdowns since school start or something around this age. Unfortunately stress and anxiety manifests in pain. Sometimes stomachaches, headaches, back pain, muscle pain, … Not really fun. Hope with a diagnosis and understanding myself better, I can regulate sooner and learn to unmask. Kinda long text. This is the second video I watched from you and it will certainly not be the last. Keep going and greetings from Germany.💜

[@beingme7235]

thanks for writing this all out, i could relate to so mich also undiognosed and asexual probably. A friend in me teen years also startet intimite body contact and i went along for an hour. all touch came from him and i thought i should enjoy it and was unsure and wanted to wait and see if i did, because as you sad in th evideo, it takes a while to recognise what you feel,. afterwrds i was angry at me that i did not just say good night and thought of my self being asexual,and i also never texted him, avoiding conflict fawning and masking comes to a big crosspoint here

[@lavonnebenson7409]

I will be 64 - I have self diagnosed. You are very helpful . Thank you.

[@playground2137]

I got diagnosed at age 42. I only recently started realising that unexpected events can cause me to freeze, and often I ended up going along with a situation that I was actually not ok with. But at the time I wasn’t able to react, say no. As a man this was never in a sexual situation though. But it still has left massive scars on my soul. It is very hard for me to trust people.

[@ralphneptune9881]

The massive scars end up developing comorbidity. Find help and support. Stay strong.

[@Anoirmori]

I honestly think I may have autism, and, its something that i myself continue to doubt, to believe: considering the people around me are quick to question it. Ive never been diagnosed, but ive related a lot to the experiences your channel shares. Your videos have seriously helped me find inner conclusion.

[@Taoscape]

Your video wasn't as all over the place as you think. It flowed together well. I have been enjoying your videos and trying to keep fauning or PDA in mind, and actually enjoying doing it. However your story smashed my naiivity. I think my heart stopped beating until you said "he appoligized". It definetely is sending me back to consider how to approach fawning or PDA behaviour. At the end of the video you read out some helpful tips for the ladies out there who might have a fauning response. However it might be nice to have some tips for those of us who aren't on the spectrum in making things safer for you :) Not just in romance, but all situations in life :)

[@elenacarr0ll]

Love this comment!! Thanks so much for the input 😊

[@tdesq.2463]

Great Comment!!!

[@kendrickkx]

Great and very informative video.

[@elenacarr0ll]

Glad you enjoyed it! ☺️

[@lovelessfolk]

This video means so much to me. I've never been a victim of SA or anything like that but something that has happened to me a couple of times now is that I'll be making out with someone even though I don't really like kissing and during the moment I'll do whatever the other person wants/is doing and then afterwards I feel really really bad and I cry. The last time this happened I had a shutdown hours after it. My friends tell me it's not my fault but I don't really know who to blame if not myself because the people I kissed thought I was enjoying it based on how I was acting so it's not their fault. When you talked about how it takes you sometime to process what's happening I related to that so much because in those kissing moments there is no time to process what's going on and everything is really quick so I just go with it so the other person won't feel bad, even though I'm not sure how I feel about it or what I want. Watching this made feel like maybe it truly isn't my fault and I'll definitely research more about the fawning response. Thank you!

[@ralphneptune9881]

A delay reaction. It cause a form a delayed traumatic reaction. Detachement and appearance of enjoyment in the moment. Abondant tears and regeret later. Stay strong take care of yourself.

[@smileart37]

I am so glad you discussed the experiences with the clear cut “bad” with strangers or other people you don’t necessarily have feelings for versus the “blurry” with friends or people you do like but can get swept up in. That’s such an important distinction AND an important awareness to have clarity around.

[@cowsonzambonis6]

This is SO important!!! I’m going to talk to my three (probably Autistic) daughters about this today. Thank you so much for sharing! ❤

[@tdesq.2463]

Hugely important! If they have difficulty reading faces, intentions, social situations, &c. ... Predators pick up on that and target ND Women & Girls ... being careful to keep all hidden from Your view. Secrecy is a dead give-away of a Predator. 🎼TD, Boston

[@nancyhope2205]

71 when I figured out. Yes, being very kind and helpful to everyone is a road to nowhere, We have to analyse whether people are worthy. They have a surface, they MASK, and underneath are their real feelings. We worry because our masks feel false, I don't think all normals have that issue.

[@Fer-De-Lance]

It took me too long to draw my boundaries. But, I am glad that I did as I am a lot less angry at people.

[@JnTmarie]

It is our responsibility to pay attention and give the appropriate signals. We need to observe our behavior also. We tell people how to treat us. Then there are predators. We can be so self involved we don’t pay attention to what is going on around us.

[@tdesq.2463]

Excellent points. We ALL need to be aware of how we're presenting ourselves. And yes, there are predators lurking about with their radars tuned so as to pick up certain signals. That being the case, we all need to look out for one another ... and to sound the alarm when a creep is near and acting strangely. And I myself need to be much more quick to speak up than on a certain prior occasion. It can be a tough dance addressing certain situations while trying to respect the friend's privacy & autonomy. Yeah ... I dropped the ball. That won't happen again. Anyway, again ... Excellent note! 🎼TD, Boston

[@spacebar9733]

The way you worded this was quite poor but yes to what you’re trying to say.

[@blessed7927]

You put words to something I always say- “I don't want to embarrass them”. Why are we always being the “bigger person?” Maybe we extremally thoughtful to a fault- at least in the wrong scenarios. I think it can be learned though.

[@nura4090]

This was so important to hear and brought back painful memories. I'm sorry you had to grow through what you went through, and I hope you are freed from it

[@tdesq.2463]

Excellent presentation! Sorry you had to deal with that situation. Sounds like you handled it well. Your advice pointers at the end were solid Gold!!! I hope a certain Young Lady Friend of mine has the opportunity to view your work here. Best, ~TD, Boston

[@elenacarr0ll]

Aw thanks for the feedback

[@donnanewby3386]

I very much appreciate your video. It has really helped me. I am 41 and still waiting for my Autism diagnosis. I have experienced the fawning that you have spoken about. May I make a suggestion/ request? There are many people who would not watch a video with swearing in. So would it be OK if you tried not to swear on your videos, because it may be that I'd like to share your videos with other people, to help them understand things i would struggle to explain myself, but with swearing in the video, i would be very limited to who i could share the video with. I really want to encourage you though, because your video was very informative and clear. So thank you. And thank you for your consideration.

[@ness_quick92]

I relate to this so much. Im 31 and was diagnosed with autism and adhd at 30. When I was 23 I went on a date with a guy, I'm female and this was at a time when I thought I still liked men, thought i was bisexual but only out to a couple of people, but since realising that Im not actually attracted to men at all and identify as demisexual and gay. I told him before we met that I wouldn't have sex with anyone until i was in a relationship with them. After i think our second date i was confinced to come back to his house. I didn’t think his intentions would be bad and agreed. I never understood how to leave and he ended up making a move on me and we had s*x. I never said no, but my mannerisms said otherwise, he just said that he wanted me to be more confident, when i felt so uncomfortable and just went along with it when i didn’t want to. After he was like oh so this must mean we are in a relationship now. And so i just agreed. We were "together" for 2 weeks and i told him i wanted to break up. He got upset and i just said that we can stay friends then, because i just wanted to make sure he was ok (fawning). From i think 23-26 he constantly manipulated me into having s*x with him, kissing me and i just didn’t pull away. I did all this whilst falling into a very bad mental heath state and SH. I felt so much shame and guilt and hated myself. Yet defending him to family and friends and convinced myself that he was my "friend" because he constantly told me that im his best friend, that im the best he has had, that i liked it, and constantly made sexual remarks to me. When i told him that i liked women, his response was oh i knew this, and im hoping once i find you a women we can have a threesome. From 26-29 i withheld myself from seeing him after my birthday and he brought me a " vibrating d*ldo" and wanted me to use it and i said i didn't want to, and he constantly tried to make me and tell me if i used it, i ended up throwing this "gift" in the bin. He kept telling me it's healthy to use, that im meant to use it and basically telling me that i have to have sex or mast*r**te to be healthy. I avoided him after this because i didn't want to put myself in a situation of having to have s*x with him as i just felt so gross about it. But after he broke up with his girlfriend he invited me to his birthday, i was 29. And i was drunk also high and he took me to a strip club because he wanted me to have a lap dance with a female. Again s*xual manipulation. After this i had to sleep at his house because i couldn't get home safely because i was still drunk, he made sure this happened i have come to realise. He then had s*x with me and again i didn’t say no. After he started crying to me because of his ex girlfriend and i comforted him, whilst feeling so much self hatred for putting myself in this situation again. Not long after this i met my current girlfriend, who was/is my first girlfriend. I told my girlfriend that i have this male "friend" that i had had s*x with before. And only a year ago did i have a trauma response memory come to me whilst have s*x with my girlfriend, because the lights were off and we were in a position that triggered the memories of my past. I then realised that the trauma i had gone through because of this man was SA. I remember telling him many times whenever he asked me to "come over" through text that i did not want to have s*x with him again and that i didn't want it, that it felt wrong and i didn't like it. And often he would reasure me that he wouldnt touch me if i saw him, if i came over we would just hang out and watch movies and promise he wouldn't do anything and then I'd agree to come over and he would still touch me and make me have s*x with him. I now understand that he was not my "friend", his intentions were bad and i was coerced into having s*x with him as an undiagnosed autistic female and my trauma response would be fawning or freezing into a shutdown. I repressed so many of these memories and have finally opened up about them to my girlfriend who understands. I really hate that this happened to me and i still feel self hatred about it and a part of me still does blame myself. But i want to heal and understand it more. I really want to know if this male "friend" knew what he was doing or did he really think i "liked it", when i was so very unsure at the time and he took this as me being shy or not confident...😢

[@donnanewby3386]

Thank you so much for sharing your situations you have been through. I can understand what you say through what i have been through also. I am still waiting for my Autism diagnosis. I am 41, and have spent so much of my life doing what others wanted, never really being able to say no. I've been in situations and wondered how i got into them, and once in them, nor knowing how to get out of them. Inside o have greatly hated myself for these things and felt very confused and trapped. I do thank you for explaining your situations so well, because it has helped me greatly. Thank you.

[@alecksgates]

I can't relate to fawning at all but I really appreciate this perspective. Thank you.

[@ralphneptune9881]

I believe you. When dealing with someone like that you have to sometimes (often) say no and wait until they ask again to make sure they really want. That need to comply can also be exarbeted by a fear of rejection. Dealing with someone with autism particularly if that person have any comorbidity is very hard. If you don't watch yourself you can end up abusing that person pretty badly, their fear of rejection would bring them to ask for things they don't really want simply to please. Say no if they ask for something not align with their best interests but that benefits you. Also that person would have very disturbing behavior and reaction about stuff that appear minor to us (Noise for example) To an average uneducated mind those reaction appear extremely exagerrated and absolutely inappropriate so the "punishment" or "anger" feel by those around would be pretty intense. Again say no ! No to the reaction buy don't over react or punish, they would simply be damaged by your own incapacity to cope. I suspect autism people that appear fonctionnnal are more likely to develop comorbidity for the reason that they are constantly abuse and pretty badly by those around them who constantly expect "normal behavior" The autism is harwired very often the second or others comorbidity are develop by a harsh environment wich ultimately make that person even more disfonctionnal. This is a sad state of affair. It is far better to remove yourself from that person life if you can't manage things well. But avoid punishment and over reacting, it only cause further problem. Punishing an autistic mind that suffer from other grave comorbidity is the equivalent of torturing a blind for not seeing. It is plain cruel and unnecessary. The problem is that some appear very normal wich make the abuse they receive far worst. Such a person need special assistance and a very patient and caring environment. The advancements of science will bring healing to those tortured mind in the comming decades.

[@LilyRiver-FoxandLittlePrince]

Thank you so much Elena, this video help me to better understand myself. As an autistic woman i have been several times victim of abus. What you explain here is the story of my life and help me to more apologize myself about men did to me. It s important to talk about that for autistic little girls... So thank you so much.... really, this vidéo would have to be seen from all over the world to alert... You explain so well our difficulties.. TAKE CARE .... 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@HomemakerDaze]

Im so sorry you went through that.

[@MonkeyOnTheContrary]

Thank you so much for this video. You're really intelligent. It's so nice to know I'm not alone, but it also makes me sad that this response is so common in people, because it can feel really isolating and lonely. Fawning is definitely something I do and have done pretty much all of my life. I hate conflict and I get such anxiety at the thought of someone no longer liking me if I don't agree with them or say something I assume they'd prefer I didn't say. I've only recently been learning about the fawn response and I feel there's so much in my past and current life to reflect on and unpack. I related so much when you were talking about how focusing on making a friend felt more important than tuning into how the other person actually made you feel and whether or not they made you uncomfortable. I read a comment below about how with autism so many things make us uncomfortable (like for me, socialising is so nerve-wracking because I just want to do a 'good job'), that we just try to perform seemingly like how other people can while pushing that socialising-discomfort to the side as we mask. We know we don't like the interaction, but we assume that's just because we don't enjoy socialising anyway. But really, sometimes people make us extra uncomfortable but we ignore that intuition and brush it off for the sake of fitting in and 'doing it right'. I've fawned in friendships since I was a child, could never say "no" to a peer, and as an adult I've fawned so much in romantic relationships and ended up in situations I'm not even happy in that go on for way longer than I would have liked them to, doing things I didn't even want to do. I think one of the biggest things I'm to learn how to do and get good at in life is in fully acknowledging my true feelings, wants and needs, and finding the strength in myself to express them clearly. I think the more I embrace myself and my true nature, the less I'll feel the need to try to get everyone to like me because I'll have a much better idea of whether or not I actually like that person or situation, and I won't be in a hurry to prove anything to anyone.

[@naomitbishop]

Thank you for sharing your experience

[@0tterMom]

I always wondered why I did this very same thing and it makes so much sense now. I'm working on getting a diagnosis lol I started watching your videos recently and relate to a lot of your experiences.

[@flyygurl18]

This is so powerful: thank you for sharing 🖖🏾

[@beingme7235]

and thanks for this list its so precious shuld be handed out for teens in school or something

[@beingme7235]

wooooooooooooooooooooooow soooooooooo importannnt , thank you a looot i resonated to everything!!!!!

[@ErichRaeder]

Elena just wanting to ask in regards to your autism, have you been through panic or anxiety attacks?

[@elenacarr0ll]

Not really, I’ve had a few in my life. My anxiety is a very internalised experience 😮‍💨

[@A_Me_Amy]

i dunno why i feel autism and god are related. rather, scripture. it seems to echo something HIGHLY precise.

[@A_Me_Amy]

paticularly, i cant resist stretching 0s. its just what i do. cuz im a man. its what men do, they stretch zeros. ones and zeros. for ... life... and ai... and computers... and everything! I like how the video starts witch a stretching 0. cuz im a man and men think of ones and zeros all day. or so they say. they know.