The Exotic Weapon That DIVIDED the Entire Destiny Community - Destiny 2

[@evanf1997]

Keep it civil in the comments, if you want me to comment on it just come over to my stream, I know it will get pretty harsh quick haha, I love you all

[@aceinthepace540]

no

[@ericx6969]

garden is trash lol

[@Bananakingchad]

Ran here faster then the release of destiny warmind

[@grandmaster_9448]

@@aceinthepace540 real

[@weinerbacon3008]

Great vid Evan! But you forgot the puzzle after the 2nd one down in the jumping puzzle on the opposite end of the first secret chest

[@Forcer69]

*Tractor cannon laughs in the Distance*

[@evanf1997]

this is the one

[@Pinny_Skeenis]

Aka tractor cheese

[@SamisSacrius]

Just have a hunter swing in on strand and slap the boss with unravel and tractor. Since they can set up a node and do that repeatedly. Way more interesting and dynamic debuff play. Well and tether. Titans used to fly in and slam to apply a solar debuff. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@drlxlcecillxl]

Wouldn't it be Tractor cannon laughs up close?

[@jonsnow9541]

“Uh oh! is that a controversial opinion that the destiny player base is split on? It’s a good thing the destiny player base is extremely friendly and is renown for their respect when presented with information they may not like.” *sends death threats over a video game, like a boss*

[@ToadimusPrime]

It didn't divide the entire community. It divided streamers who's job is to play 24/7 and regular gamers who have 9-5 jobs and get to play 1-2h a day

[@bannedmann4469]

On the easiest version of the game.

[@0uttaS1TE]

Try 1 to 2 hours a week, sometimes

[@plotfinder5640]

I usually play like 2-3 hours a week. I don’t have dang time

[@ToadimusPrime]

@@bannedmann4469 It could be the easiest version ever, but if you can't play often enough to be a raid power level, it's still a hinderance. You reasoning here really isn't good. A person who became a mother or father can barely get 1h in weekly, and they're probably gonna spend that time to do a raid and not grind all pinnacles.

[@0uttaS1TE]

@@ADUSN Oh, so they gotta design it for no lifers only. Got it.

[@naota3k]

15:35 is literally the only time I've ever seen CBgray not ear-to-ear smiling.

[@cbgray]

Haha chat voted for me to solo a dungeon so I was trying not to throw because im bad 😂😂

[@bobafettgamer2495]

Man actually replied, legend

[@CubeItself]

@@cbgray sounds like u had a lot of fun, very poggers

[@naota3k]

@@cbgray LOL!

[@ghostlyrazgriz5228]

Personally i dont think it needs a nerf. It is a great tool for sherpas to help people through raids for the first time. Whereas optimised top teams one phasing bosses with primaries. Unoptimised casual teams struggle while using heavy weapons. My opinion. If these top teams dont want it involved in raid races. Bungie should disable it for day 1. Activate again after 24 hours

[@CallMeRengod]

MIssing the entire point of the actual problem.

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

@@CallMeRengod No I think he gets it. Only top players are really complaining about it, and nerfing it would probably make LFG more impossible than they already are, making a barrier for new players to raiding is too much of a tradeoff. While there is a problem with other debuffs not being on par, nerfing divinity will not actually fix the problem.

[@FadedMaple07]

@@CallMeRengod What? That's literally one of saltagreppo's argument. He said div makes day 1 raids boring because div is mandatory in day 1.

[@ryanheskin9861]

This is what I was thinking

[@mathieurobitaille653]

@@Boris_The_Turtle Exactly, as everyone would revert to tether Hunter and tractor. Still would be hurtful for loads of players on controller losing crits. Would move meta dps back to rocks or else that doesn't rely on crits.

[@Infinite_Ouroboros]

I have yet to see a single div out in the wild in casual modes like match making strikes etc. Rarely do people even use it for GMs anymore, only ever see it once in a while for certain raid encounters so it's not a problem at all in my eyes in terms of current destiny. If people want more of a challenge then maybe bungie should just disable it for day 1 contest mode raids. Another thing to add is that if we are expected to clear a raid 30 times to get the exotic then a div that saves time is always welcome.

[@timmyrau2806]

I have to disagree with the Gm and raid encounters part. If your going into any Gm with overload div is always most peoples choice because it’s so consistent. I think that’s a good thing since pretty much everyone hates overloads. Raid encounters on the other hand, I don’t think I’ve been in a raid in the last 2 years without someone putting div on. It’s simply a must have for a lot of people.

[@Infinite_Ouroboros]

@@timmyrau2806 I have guilded conquerer for 2 seasons and all of the GMs I did, my team didn't even entertain the idea of a div and just used the seasonal mod weapons. I think you misunderstand the raid encounter bit because I did say "only over see it once in a while for certain raid encounters" which means it is utilised for encounters like rhulk and warpriest. My point being it is only ever utilised in those types of situations (not casual pve). With Kingsfall, we don't even bother with div because most encounters are easy enough to 1 phase and 1.5 hour full clears are the norm.

[@AblonVtuber]

"Another thing to add is that if we are expected to clear a raid 30 times to get the exotic" Easy fix there is actually going through the effort and adding Exotic quest lines to actually EARN the weapons. Div is the only raid exotic, and few exotics that actually have a rewarding questline attached to it. The sandbox as is for Exotics is such a mess that I hope Bungie would finally learn to try to add some amount of effort for a weapon than the bandaid fix that are these "drop chance boosters" on the gaping hole that is the gear rarity system.

[@Infinite_Ouroboros]

@@AblonVtuber Exactly. Too many layers that need fixing, there are really only 2 rarity tiers in d2. It's either legendary or exotic. Whites, blues and greens have long been obsolete. Also I don't mind some rng raid exotics but there should be a proper form of bad luck protection such as guaranteed drop at 25 clears etc.

[@keithpierce5686]

@@timmyrau2806 literally have never used it in GMs..... And you don't have to either.....

[@Gamertron0]

Don't you just love when a back to back to back worlds 1st top 0.00000000001% player talks about the skill gap

[@bannedmann4469]

While playing on the easiest version of the game. Raid races are a joke in D2 thanks to PC, the versions need to be separated. If he really wanted a proper challenge, he wouldn't be there. But he won't put his money where his mouth is, cause he'd lose.

[@joshua117ify]

thinks the game is too easy so now he wants it to be even harder for casuals and increase the already existing gate keeping, he definitely needs an ego check

[@blast_invader4420]

Because someone with three worlds first clears una row couldn’t possibly know what they’re talking about

[@wesleyward5901]

Don't you just love when somebody shares an opinion but gets constantly harrased and sent threats? Yeah. People like you are the problem with Destiny.

[@EclipseHighroller]

@@wesleyward5901 don’t you love it when someone I. The top 0.01% of players in destiny thinks their wants should be forced in the other 99%? You do know he’s tried to gatekeep against low skilled players and those with disabilities before right? Last I checked, that’s the definition of elitism.

[@SifGreyfang]

"If it ain't broken don't fix it" is all I have to say about Div.

[@anunusualname5344]

It’s funny that not one person I talk to or play with had ever complained about Div ever.

[@GiorgosAigio96]

@@anunusualname5344 cause theres no reason to. Its optional regardless of peoples arguements over it. And it is a raid weapon, or people forgot about that. Since Moon+ isnt getting sunset the weapon will remain a raid quest exotic, if they nerf it or adjust it in a more negative way than it is now why would a new player or a casual who may want to get it eventually go for it?

[@ltccherno2536]

The average player can’t make public events heroic or do the corrupted mechanics. And then some dudes wanna talk div nerfs? Nah. Let’s not.

[@pierocolombo2643]

On god, streamers want a challenge? Id rather try to convince bungie to make the game a lot harder than nerf everything we got 😓

[@ipod1590]

At that point I don’t think div matters for them

[@dadenelson7570]

If div didn't exist as it did things could have smaller health bars in endgame

[@Dogma14]

L take

[@bannedmann4469]

@@pierocolombo2643 Streamers say they want a challenge while playing on the easiest version of the game.

[@Vavalry]

Salts arguement was incredibly flawed due to the fact he thought Div was the problem, and not the lack of options that makes Div so good. Div is so good because all other options for debuffing enemies are just objectively worse in 99% of the game. Why would you use the hunter void super, tractor cannon, or any other option for debuffs when they debuff less than Div, don’t last as long, aren’t as applicable in end game, or don’t stack as well as Div? The answer to this problem isn’t nerfing div, its buffing the other options to be worth running instead. Maybe make anarchy give the debuff it did during season of the lost, increase the debuff time and crit multiplier tractor cannon gives, make tethers stick to moving targets like rhulk and warpriest, and give titans back melting point, and then Div wouldn’t be as necessary in raid teams since people would have to choose which debuff would be the most effective. Also his point about whisper is moot because it sucked before divs introduction and is just not a viable weapon.

[@melvindettinger3134]

Salt was not saying that the debuff is the main problem. He was arguing that div applies a debuff on top of the fact that the bubble makes precision weapons way too easy ti use

[@melvindettinger3134]

Also even if they buff all of the other debuff options, div would still be miles better due to the fact that it has the bubble

[@ligerking8924]

I heavily disagree. First of all we cannot balance the game for only contest mode bosses, if everything is broken the game is boring and then it’s a whole balance nightmare. If everything that can debuff is top tier, lasts 25 seconds, and follows a moving target then the entire game will feel trivial or be balanced so you have to be running those debuffs. The problem with div is that it is the best debuff and the best way to hit crits. I do not have a great solution to give you back as to how this should all shake out. Also what was that about whisper? Okay, was it meta the literal season before div, no, but the 2 prior? Yes. Whisper and it’s predecessors black spindle and hammer will always be some amazing guns, unfortunately due to it not getting buffs it is not viable right now. It will take some work but acting like a gun that is mid to unusable will never see the light of day is very short sighted. The big point i wanted to make, unless you make other stuff give a crit spot the size of Alaska like div, div will be king.

[@Vavalry]

@@ligerking8924 the bubble is a part of Divs identity. You can’t remove it or it ceases to become divinity. Therefore if you buff other options to maybe give better crits than a div bubble, then the question would be “should we go for higher dps or easer crit shots?”. If you nerf Div by removing the bubble, all you accomplish is making endgame content a bigger pain, and make yet another raid exotic worthless to get. Lets face it, the only raid exotics worth running are Div, Tarrabah for pvp, and probably Touch of Malice. Im not saying to make other debuff options broken, but more viable so they get actual use.

[@Vavalry]

@@melvindettinger3134 it was also flawed because most encounters these days have obvious crit spots for players to hit. I mean people use Div on Oryx and I never need to hit the bubble for max dps. The only encounters that make it easier are the ones that most warrent the bubble, like Rhulk, Warpriest, and and Atheon who constantly move and attack you during dps

[@ryanschulte3742]

If divinity gets Nerf who do you think it will affect more, the player with the enhance God‘s role versions of Cataclysm and have done every master raid and have gilded their conqueror title six times along with his friends who also play this game every day. Or the player with his best random drop linear fusion and that at most has only done master nightfall and one or two raids with only seasonal titles and is lucky to get a single raid in a week.

[@mriguy7989]

The only thing I keep seeing the hardcore argue in this scenario is: "I can't enjoy myself if other people are able to clear the same content as me". It's a very entitled, selfish, first-world problem mentality that is very toxic and one that game developers should ALWAYS ignore.

[@bryonchaney96]

Personally I feel that this entire situation is unnecessary. I understand that it is necessary for World's First races and such, but I think having the weapon disabled until the race has a winner is a better idea than nerfing it in all content. I unlocked the Divinity solely to assist others in raids. I know I can do sufficient damage in an encounter without it, and if the team doesn't need it to help a struggling member(s), then I am comfortable not running it at all. Outside of those situations, I hardly ever use Divinity. I have never needed it in a dungeon, GM, or Nightfall, and I didn't use it for the Witch Queen campaign. Having a support weapon like this is great for the game, and I would rather see other support weapons/exotics brought into the game to challenge Div's spot. Constantly nerfing things because of their dominance leads us to situations like Whisper and Anarchy. Sure, they are still decent, but they are hardly used in content anymore and that isn't something that I think should happen if Bungie wants to continue making a healthy sandbox in PvE. All in all, this feels like a partial gatekeeping attempt. It almost surely wasn't intended that way, but it does come off that way. Let people play the way that they want to play, and if Div makes it easier for the majority of the playerbase to experience content like VoW or KF regularly, then I see that as a net gain.

[@RyanMK666]

It hasn’t divided it in half, it’s just those with ego’s and who have a job to play this game all the time. Vs everyone else.

[@markmurex6559]

It's so fun standing in a well during DPS phases while someone uses Div. Such a unique strategy.

[@nicholasgrogan856]

I have to belive that if well and div got nerffed the game would be way more interesting and engaging

[@Rhulk_Disciple_of_the_Witness]

Because standing in a well without a divinity is sooo engaging

[@Rhulk_Disciple_of_the_Witness]

@@nicholasgrogan856 no it wouldn't it'd just be more annoying

[@neopolitaneagle212]

@@Rhulk_Disciple_of_the_Witness u mean becouse u would have to get better

[@Rhulk_Disciple_of_the_Witness]

@@neopolitaneagle212 no i mean I'd get flinched into narnia or have to hit a bosses head as he dashes two thousand kilometers away every two seconds

[@warlockholmes]

In my opinion the main thing about div getting a nerf kind of seems wierd as if it was nerfed that would just either still have it stay top tier or put tractor cannon in the same spot

[@tristanwright9572]

Tractor doesn't give the massive crit spot though. The "problem" with div is it is the easiest, safest, best, and most consistent way to debuff a raid boss. Tractor you need to be point blank and know when to refresh the debuff because it only last a short time. Tractor has weaknesses, but Divinity has basically none.

[@UnderratedMax]

Yes and no. Not every boss can be safely hit with tractor cannon or hit at all (GoS final boss and Oryx). However, it would completely depend on how they design the next bosses in the Lightfall raid and next seasons Dungeon IF they were to nerf Div, to make running a debuff gun useless.

[@joshsilliman5446]

@@tristanwright9572 Lol I don’t think it’s a problem at all I love destiny and the community but if people aren’t complaining people aren’t happy

[@TheRevsReturn]

the way bungie handles debuffs is atrocious in this game unfortunately, so yea you're probably right. Bungie would have to rework the way debuffs interact, as well as making them stack and simultaneously nerfing them all for there to actually be build crafting and loadout diversity in boss fights.

[@valsagar4917]

@Lil Mikey absolutely, it breaks the meta so much and creates such a need for it in raids that it's honestly amazing, even causing bungie to design bosses and such differently just because they know that everyone will use divinity

[@Jarem24]

Datto’s explanation with using Jeff Bezos as an example is pretty spot on in my opinion. It’s like first world problems in the realm of high skill Destiny players.

[@thebungler8150]

Div deserves a lot better than "unga bunga, nerf/don't nerf". It's the hardest exotic weapon to obtain in the game, and a raid exotic at that. An intelligent retooling/rework that makes it better in areas it's weak in (solo, low level) and weaker in areas that it's strong in (raids, nightfalls)

[@TheAsylumCat]

I was about to ask how hard is it to get. I don't raid often due to scheduling and lfgs are unreliable.

[@thebungler8150]

@@TheAsylumCat Very hard, I was lucky to find an insane LFG group to get it week one, but as our boy said he should be doing Divinity runs with people right now or soon, so maybe you could get it from there.

[@danteinpuro319]

@@thebungler8150 bro I can't find an LFG thatll stay for garden of salvation let alone do the quest

[@gsc8713]

@@TheAsylumCat it took my team 4 hours to get it

[@andrewmcelhaney312]

My entire issue with salt is that Eversingle one of his arguments devolved into him "bad take" or "why don't we nerf all boss health to deal with one gun." He didn't take criticism and just kept repeating those 2 things over and over and over again

[@ParisPK]

Exactly and he wasn’t giving any fair points. Keeps repeating it and doesn’t even realize that it will hurt the game’s meta and the community will not be playing the game

[@jamminninja8924]

salty cracker was LITERALLY copy and pasting responses . his kingship didnt even have the energy to speak with us peasants

[@ThatArgonaut]

I think there is an argument to be made that top tier players shouldn't be the end all be all judge for just about anything. I still remember when escalation protocol was made harder because Content Creators who got to try it early thought it was too easy, and then 90% of the at that point relatively small player base couldn't even beat it. Does that mean that Divinity shouldn't be nerfed? I don't know, but I know that the top tier players don't NEED Divinity to do well, and some lower skilled players do.

[@mriguy7989]

Over the course of time, more often than not, if a game developer listens to the top 1% of the community and makes changes based on that, it almost always ends badly. Crazy how making a game that is designed around the top 1% of your players alienates the other 99% in the process!!!!

[@atsukana1704]

Ya like when people ask for div for oryx I kinda laugh because they don’t even realize that the person they are asking is simultaneously a void hunter who can debuff the boss all the same and the crit stays the exact same size.

[@bruhbruh4329]

If anything the casual/"low skill" players should be catered to more because there's simply way, WAY more of them than there are content creators/3x world first raiders. At the end of the day, normal skill players that get on, play for an hour or 2 then go to sleep/work pay the bills

[@ullman2793]

@@atsukana1704 tether doesnt work on oryx and even if it did it wouldnt be as good as div since the duration is way shorter

[@theamazinggarbage3209]

@@bruhbruh4329 in this situation, someone who can only play for 1-2 hours prob doesn’t Have the time to a day one either way

[@TokenWiteGuy]

Evan. The fact that you played this song from fury at 10:00 makes you the best KZbinr

[@jaredthompson8188]

All these destiny streamers and youtubers need to be honest with themselves. They make the game easy, they spend thousands of hours figuring out ways to do things faster with more damage and so on. Most of us weren't hotswapping guns to do the most damage we aren't stacking as many mods as possible to make sure we do more dmg. For the average player with a full time job and more the game is fine

[@Reiku78]

Agreed. Sadly the top streamers and youtubers the top .00001% think their the only ones who play the game.

[@jaredthompson8188]

@@Reiku78 exactly

[@evanf1997]

Yeah you’re right, I do think that there are criticisms that only apply to a top % of players who spend a lot of time experimenting, but I also am in favor of variety of play after a while, I think divinity is just not a fun weapon, in fact I’d argue it’s not really a weapon, it’s a utility that’s necessary to any practical teams loadout. The “just don’t use it” is lost when it just objectively slows down the whole fight. I want my clears, I like seeing health bar disappear faster, it’s the point of build crafting and the point of the end game as a whole, get stronger and optimize, that’s an mmo. Div is an outlier that applies to everyone, not just top teams, we’ve had destiny years before without div, I think a change would spice some life back in. Appreciate the opinion brotha, it is my job, but I still want what’s best for the game ❤️

[@jaredthompson8188]

@@evanf1997 I have no opinion on either nerfing div or not it just bothers me when the top players in the world think the game needs to change to their wants. Honestly I have no solutions and I'm not going to pretend like I do, just sharing my thoughts. 😛

[@awakecloud]

@@evanf1997 what’s wrong with utility. It’s a role in a raid. Instead of changing it wouldn’t it be better to bring other “utility” options into the game that provide other forms of utility nothing better just more options. It’s a most because it’s not just strong it’s the only thing we got. With solar 3.0 melting point would be awesome, make tether great again. Or a heavy sniper that has 1 shot clip and takes time to reload that could stun for 5 seconds only on crits imagine a top tier .000001% using that on rhulk that would take some serious skill. I think in moments like this nerfing or reworking wouldn’t make the community happy heck I don’t think it’ll make the top players happy adding more options and interesting different boss designs will make everyone happy without losing anything.

[@SarcasticDragonGaming]

What if Bungie buffed heavy GLs to be more competitive in DPS? Close to but not as good as Linears, they have the same high ammo capacity that linears have but don’t require crits. It would solve the accessibility issue people are worried about and would simultaneously give heavy GLs a new niche to fill, something they desperately need (Parasite excluded).

[@ericx6969]

lmgs need buff in pvp

[@SarcasticDragonGaming]

@@ericx6969 okay but that has like, absolutely nothing to do with this whatsoever?

[@whiterose2321]

I’d love to use prospector again tbh

[@randoidgames1004]

buff heavy gls. lets repeat anarchy boiiiissss

[@herstalthedemoness]

@@randoidgames1004 bring out the double slugs and ANARCHY!

[@wonderbread55]

Hardly anyone has this exotic. The quest to get it is a pain, and most players end up giving up on it.

[@bucketophil]

I fall into this category.

[@devilghostface8798]

And that's why raid teams lfg forever to get someone with it

[@masonwillms2542]

How is it a pain. If i remember correctly you need 1 maybe 2 clears and to do 4 lost sectors

[@valsagar4917]

@@masonwillms2542 yeah, half the people i find on lfg have it too

[@SillyRadish]

As a Certified Div Bitch, I honestly don't care what happens, Divinity will forever be my favorite exotic of all time.

[@antares8826]

Ah I see, you are a man of culture as well

[@ericx6969]

so what if they delete the exotic

[@Aceshigh4221]

Bro same

[@johnprice6271]

Not a Div Bitch, but i was there for that talk and... Boy was it an odd talk.

[@tristix3721]

Please tell which Dog organization certified you? so that it can have a serious chat with Salt.

[@Firaa]

I very rarely play raids due to not having a large enough friend group to play with, nor a clan to work with; but yesterday I found lots of players to help me beat Vow of the Disciple on an LFG discord. Due to the varying time zones and everyone only being able to devote a certain amount of time, I played with probably 20 other guardians. The raid took almost 10 hours for me (I don't care what you say, that 3rd encounter is evil), but I didn't have a negative experience with a single person I played with, and genuinely had a lot of fun. It's sad to see this toxic side of the community show up sometimes, because for the most part this game has an amazing and welcoming community, and I hope that Saltagreppo wasn't fazed by those who saw his suggestions as a challenge. This was a great video, thank you for always being the perfect example of the great and welcoming destiny community Evan :)

[@TACTICOOL_TEXAN]

Saltybitchagreppo wanted it nerfed. Bungie nerfed it. So yeah they listen to creators and streamers

[@ICARUSL1VE]

I think divinity is perfect where it is at. In a lot of LFG servers there are lots of players wanting to do raids but not knowing the mechanics and a high percentage of the D2 community won’t help them. Me and my buddies typically look for those people who need help and divinity helps them so much in learning damage phases.

[@EnragedCucco]

I don't think anyone is arguing for a nerf that makes it not helpful when teaching new players raids, nerfing the debuff to allow higher risk higher reward options for better teams would still let others use divinity to help newer players hit shots and understand where and when to shoot for dps.

[@lordpumpkinhead265]

From my experience, people are willing to teach encounters to people if they're willing to ask. More laid-back LFGs are fine taking a few minutes to explain how to do an encounter, but people refuse to ask for help or default to "ad-clear" instead of asking how to do mechanics. Granted, there are encounters where ad-clear is a viable option, and outright necessary in a few, but its mostly used as a cheap scapegoat.

[@reachcole514]

I will never advocate for the nerfing of a weapon into uselessness, which is what they're suggesting with the changes. I want more powerful weapons, not less.

[@redundanttrees]

I just want original Anarchy back.

[@TheSecondDiaryKeeper]

While I may not agree with Salts claims and I agree nerfing into uselessness is toxic, you have to admit Div is pretty dominant. The "Don't use it" solution doesn't work in a day 1 raid RACE or challenge runs.

[@reachcole514]

@@TheSecondDiaryKeeper the day one raid race and challenge runs shouldn't be the bar for content. It's not how the majority of raiders will experience it. The only thing these pro raiders are doing is wanting the content to be harder for everyone so they can have an exclusive pinnacle where only they stand. They want to be catered to at the disadvantage of the majority of players.

[@Lorentz_Driver]

Seriously. The eliteism and gatekeeping here by the top 1% of players is insane. When bosses are just DPS and gear checks Div is fine.

[@turkviktor]

@@reachcole514 I think you missed the entire point of Salt's message,this is not about that he wants to be catered around,divinity does make the dps checks a joke,you cant die from well + T10 res plus you cant even miss with divinity,there is no risk even on day 1 races.Also not to mention he responded to almost every take other people had,he just wanted to start a conversation which he did,but people like you bash him for no reason,try to have a normal conversation with him and find out it works because he values your opinion aswell but most people seem to not do the same."The only thing these pro raiders are doing is wanting the content to be harder for everyone so they can have an exclusive pinnacle where only they stand." This is so bullshit,one of the nerf/rework somebody suggested that they nerf the debuff and the bosses hp,so for "casuals" it doesnt effect anything,but on day1 races or speedruns or when just a group of good players wanting to min-max so they can clear the raid for the 100th time can use tiny things that add up like tether rotation,or risking tractor,making kind of new strategies etc. Even Bungie said that they were happy with the GM clears when it was brutal,now its a joke and everybody wants to be "part of it" or rather just get carried like 50% of the playerbase,Bungie always and will cater for people who are lesser skilled,and its fine,but a change like that would "cater" to the "high-end" players while still staying the same for the "low-end" players.

[@CHEWYPROOF]

I don't think DIV needs a nerf... I think everything else that does "similar" things Tractor cannon, Tether, Weaken Grenades. If these higher risk/ Harder to use options were buffed then Div would only be the easy option not the best option

[@Masoch1st]

You just described increasing power creep to the tee. That is NOT the answer. Well, it is the worst answer.

[@obeysyn6575]

The best solution I’ve seen was to give div two firing modes. One that creates the crit orb but no debuff(can still be applied by other sources) or no crit orb but applies the debuff. I feel this would make other debuff sources relevant again

[@DeepHibiscus]

Make div the consestent easy option but give us harder, better options.

[@CHEWYPROOF]

@@Masoch1st These other things that are harder to use do the same Debuff (minus Weaken Grenades) as div without a crit bubble. How would buffing the other hard options to plan, use and keep going be power creep?

[@ninjarat7006]

I would say just make div do 10% debuff div should not be the best and easiest debuff in game make it so that you have to run some other debuff along with div or you will loss damage overall.

[@GoodOlKappaTea]

FYI, Coldheart is amazing now. The amount of Ionic Traces it makes is insane. I run it on Warlock all the time.

[@etsaru9553]

Yeah, a lot of folks seem to have forgotten that buff last season. It’s one of my favorite solo exotics right now

[@evanf1997]

hmm, gonna give it a try, I still think it needs some more love

[@xxsouldust3rz]

A Coldheart user? now ive seen everything

[@rhouxfang4172]

I don't think Div should be touched at all. Rather, I think Bungie should design some bosses where Div is useful because the boss moves too much or it's too hard to hit the boss crit, and some bosses where it would be better to not use Div at all. I think the big issue right now is that Div works for everything, it doesn't have a specific use so everyone uses it. If we had more bosses where using Div was less effective than not using it, then we wouldn't be having this argument. Bosses like Aatrax and Kali come to mind because either the damage window is too short for Div or the boss doesn't move, isn't waving its head all over, and takes more damage with well aimed shots rather than a div bubble. Bungie has a lot of freedom and tools when it comes to designing a boss encounter I think they could easily come up with something fun and creative where we don't need to use div. P.S. This Div issue is not the same thing as the Bridge of Folly from Reckoning. Div isn't making us unkillable or putting our supers on 0 second cooldowns, it's just making it a bit easier to kill bosses. Designing Anti-Div encounters shouldn't hurt the game and shouldn't make us any less powerful for not using it. If anything it actually helps the game by giving us a reason to not use div all the time and save it for when we really do need it.

[@joliquidflow2296]

You see we have jobs out of our homes and like to come back and have some me time and play Destiny with the promise of using the hard earned weapon that took a regular non try hard to finally achieve the whole raid and puzzles within the quest to have it and be able to use it how it’s been intended. Now if you live inside your house all day long getting to play and make enough to survive and pay the bills ,more power to you. I just don’t have your skill level because of my outside life commitments. For those of us who probably need the divinity to act and it’s do it’s intended purpose, we’re more than grateful for having it in difficult stages within Destiny. I say leave it alone , we worked hard and are still exited to own the darn thing. If it gets to easy for an individuals team to use it. Well DONT. Hoping we can carry on and have fun within the game we all love.

[@angryGinger62]

This entire situation is really pointless and all i've been doing with it is recreating real world examples to try and pallete this whole debacle. Heres one... To me, its basically hearing some dude who got so jacked everything seems to light to him, and instead of realizing the heights he reach and seeing the forest for the trees (*couph* Datto *couph*), hes instead calling for everything to be heavier. Why? The game isn't unanimously easy for everyone, you've just gotten stronger, and divinity isn't broken, it just doesn't have a competitor. The taste is only bitter if theres only one flavour...

[@zylo4029]

Wrong argument, noone is saying that the game is too easy here (even though it is) "It just doesn't have a competitor", that's the line you're using to describe Divinity. That's exactly why something needs to be done about it. It is simply the best thing in the game at debuffing a boss, the massive crit bubble is an insane bonus on top at that. There is no valid reason for it to be able to do both of those things while also being extremely easy to use

[@angryGinger62]

@@zylo4029 I agree with the ease of use and understand your aproach. There needs to be an increase in support based exotics and the possobilities are damn near endless

[@zylo4029]

@Ya Mum Yeah but the discussion about Divinity has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game. Saltagreppo suggested that they lower the HP of bosses to compensate for the nerf of Divinity making the game harder which I think is completely fair

[@limbobilbo8743]

“Not everyone plays this game full time just because you are at the top doesnt make something bad for casuals” Hold on, let him cook.

[@senpafl4405]

What an unnecessary discussion. I also play Warframe and recently the AoE-meta there got nerfed and the game got review bombed to oblivion and a good part of player base stopped playing. Don't get rid of something without knowing what follows.

[@mriguy7989]

Any time game developers listen to the bitching of the top 1% of the community, nothing but bad things will follow for that game. Guaranteed!

[@Schaeferyn]

You're sleeping on Coldheart. With the new warlock exotic helmet, the ionic traces from Coldheart give you absurd ability uptime.

[@oliverwithers9736]

Div is very dependant on the fight, it comes down to crit multipliers at the end of the day, E.G you use div on Golgoroth and oryx because they have crit modifiers which are below the divs crit modifier, however you don’t use it on warpriest because his head is easy to hit and has a higher modifier. If an enemy is hard to hit or has bad crit modifiers then use div. it’s an issue with bungie designing bosses to be hard to shoot or not giving them a fair crit mod not div itself. The only way they could change it fairly would to be make the bosses easier to hit and have a baseline crit mod however that would make div useless making the gun never used again. If we really want to talk about balance and fairness then how about how that for a handful of raid teams which consider themselves community champions race to beat an activity first and the entire rest of the raiding community is expected to put aside for them and wait a day just so either Datto or Elysium can big up their egos again.

[@arakemi1080]

Could you please explain that last part? I am unsure if I understand it correctly.

[@Razzer_racer]

The last bit of what you said is bothersome. You don't want a contest mode because it boosts good teams egos to pull off something extremely difficult? Thats some participation trophy "everyone's a winner" logic. Some aspects of this game are meant to be competitive. That is how you get the most dedicated part of the playerbase to stick around, and get players to strive for something. Who cares if you have to wait one day for the raid to be released for the rest of the games lifespan? If it bothers you that much, just think of it as contest mode being released a day earlier than the intended full release of the raid. Or shield your eyes from the raid race. Or do something for a day that isn't destiny, and comeback the next day to play the regular raid?

[@arakemi1080]

@@Razzer_racer I do agree with you mostly. It is meant to be competitive, but its one thing to be competitive in a raid where everything is set anonymously with no help from the community, and everything is fair game with div disabled, and another thing to have the top 1% of the community test the map in normal mode and then make the timers the bare minimum in required to do an encounter, based around a timer with little to no ammo drops and champions to absorb the already little ammo that people have, is another thing. Raids shouldn't be based around one element of the game which is div, it's which team can do more damage with their original loadouts, not who can do more damage to a giant bubble of crits. If they add a new raid, I hope they disable div for it's day 1 so the best teams can show their skill at shooting, debuffing and cooperating, without someone shooting a crits laser at bosses.

[@arakemi1080]

@@Razzer_racer dammit I went on a rant again. What I wanted to say on a more short notice is that Bungie should disable div and make boss health actually fair.

[@xxJagMasterGxx]

The issue with nerfing it, is that then it will just go back to the tether/tractor cannon meta. That will then be deemed boring/op/make the game to easy. Something will always replace the number one spot and there will always be hardcore players wanting the highest thing nerfed because the game is easy for them. I get wanting a game to be harder when it's become to easy, but there are many alternate routes outside of nerfing a weapon that makes large parts of content (some of the best content in the game) accessible for others. There are top teams that can DPS with primary ammo, while there are other teams that can barely kill raid bosses with heavy. I don't think the backlash to Salts statements would have been so toxic if it came from many other people or creators. However him being part of the team that got 3 worlds firsts in a row makes what he said leave a bad taste in peoples mouths. Like others have said, "it reeks of rich people problems".

[@daninjadasinful1139]

I just don't get how a guy that has worlds first 3 times and whose team used Divinity to win 3 raid races complain about Divinity. If he feels like it takes away the challenge then don't use it.

[@mriguy7989]

That's been my line of thinking. If he thinks it's a crutch, then don't use it and see if he still come out on top. If he does, then obviously the top 1% of players can all just ignore using Divinity from here on out.

[@seagullsays5831]

@Ya Mum I mean if he has such a problem with it then yeah he shouldn't use it day 1. Damage checks are prevalent in day 1 races but they aren't the be all and end all of the race, that's reserved for deciphering mechanics. If Salt has a problem with Divinity then he should stop using it out of principle or stop whining.

[@jamminninja8924]

@Ya Mum a real man with stand by his principles . salt revealed himself to be a coward and a weak boy. if you say it makes the game to easy, be a fucking man and stop using it when it benefits you . that boy needs to grow up . being a 3x worlds first means nothing . his opinion should matter the same as ours but we all know bungie only listens to them .

[@scoodlemcnubbers1959]

Evanf1997 has been pumping out videos recently and i love it

[@tillermydudes117]

I don’t think nerfing divinity is the move, I’d rather buff other things to open other avenues of strategy and load out variety, because my raid team, literally draws straws to who has to run divinity. I think allowing different strategies through buffing other weapons/mods/etc might be a better way to keep divinity viable and starting adding more variety

[@MM-cg9tk]

Gonna say the same thing I said at fallouts video: divs became mandatory because of certain bosses (warpriest) and especially because of some players who immediately abandons the whole raid if no one has it. Especially warpriest of all the time I went to that raid (27 times) I only made to oryx twice because people had it and half of the times we had it we never dmg him enough. And some players who says (anyone got div?) Or (whose gonna run div?) half the time will abandon the raid because no one has it for bosses as tough as warpriest.

[@PhotonBread]

Divided? Bro it’s Dividing! This is gonna be a never ending battle

[@nickmacias00]

From my experience I never see divinity used outside of raids, and sometimes I’ve been in raids where it wasn’t used, sure it’s a common raid weapon but I don’t see how it’s any different than the other 1% of guns that have always been used in raids, maybe they can nerf it a little but not too much

[@doombottv6524]

No ones divided. Its just a content creator being a content creators

[@gsc8713]

CUNTent creators

[@mriguy7989]

Lol pretty much. It's a top 0.1% player being mad because they think they can't enjoy content when other people below them can also do said content.

[@whyamihere6375]

46% of the community has div and yet it barely even has 1% actually using the damn gun. Its not that its good or bad, its the fact that people NEVER want to use the damn thing because people care so much about their own dps trying to out dps everyone else in the fireteam. Do I think it needs a nerf? No not really, will it be nerfed cause of one person? No it wont.

[@tinysquidwardonachair2236]

Now this makes too much sense

[@MetalDEmpire]

Thats what you call Rich People Problems, and we're the poors

[@zylo4029]

It's not that people care more about their own DPS, we want the encounter to complete and when that happens you don't even see the damage done We don't want to use Div because it's extremely boring. All you do is hold the trigger down (or spam it if you're really bored and want the mag to last a bit longer). The Divinity player contributes the most damage thanks to the debuff given, even if the wipe screen doesn't show it

[@jayluis7701]

Well personally I don't like using div because it's the most boring exotic in d2

[@whyamihere6375]

@@zylo4029 This, it's a bit of both but I definitely agree it's more so the fact that the gun is boring

[@Jerphun]

Div puts a debuff and a crit cage to make it easier to hit crits. you get the same thing from a teather and hitting headshots. you miss out on damage on yourself to help you team hit their shots. Actually an optimal dps loadout whole team with teathers is more damage. There is no solution to div because there is no problem with it.

[@zelo3238]

Did you not watch the video my guy?

[@lele_goof]

1-flinch 2-u get to have damage supers instead which greatly surpass whatever u would get otherwise, tether is inconsistent and short, you would need multiple tethers for a full dps phase, where div+celestial or thundercrash would just be easier and better

[@leandrometfan]

Wtf Evan, props to your editors, this was a fast one lol

[@nathanowen8456]

I don't see div as a problem the only problem I actually is solo players who don't have any time for raids and still want to get the raid exotics solo players need something for that or change something for solo players on destiny 2

[@hkillerpr]

I guess Tractor Cannon means nothing x'D

[@Vlad-bu3mr]

why would a solo player need divinity? serious question

[@user-dd4fv6qj8g]

@@Vlad-bu3mr Best question.

[@nathanowen8456]

Has anyone noticed that most solo players in destiny don't have the raid exotics 80 present of players have raid exotics well the other 20 don't

[@Vlad-bu3mr]

@@hkillerpr I usually run around debuffing with tractor when solo in and sometimes get asked what I'm doing lol

[@ikophi7093]

the only people who asked for a div nerf were 0.1% fucks who are still using it after it becoming suboptimal, can't land crits ? 🤨 anyways, it absoltuly didn't divide the community, if anything it consolidated the hate towards the elitists, they just ruined something nice for everyone out of spite, if i speak more i'm in big trouble so let's end it here.

[@sabrogaming4602]

This weapon was a literal pain in the ass to get from the very beginning, initially first thoughts were wow a trace rifle, then later on WOW WHAT A TRACE RIFLE!!! Nerfing it now would be pointless, you didn’t complain then so why complain now? this community can never make up its mind sometimes

[@drizztdourden4855]

The one thing I would say about the fact div is the fact that it IS a quest. That means a guaranteed drop after only 1 raid as opposed to RNGsus. And many fireteams are fine with carrying a Garden run once for a guaranteed exotic as compared to carrying up to 50 for a chance. TLDR: 1 run guarantee makes it so much more accessible and easier to get that random drop or even buying (see: spoils gain per raid run)

[@tripatomz3441]

Hahaha u must be using cracked ptw carry services if u think it's more easily accessible. Pretty shure i read somewhere it has the least amount of players who own it.

[@atlasblast2082]

It's a weapon that if just ONE person on your team has. It immediately makes your whole team stronger, and that creates inclusion so I'm totally ok with it. Div is fine the way it is

[@Gee-bg2rv]

Also that one person sacrifices their DPS

[@kurtispowers5776]

@@Gee-bg2rv no that is bullshit if your doing more total dps, that argument has no merit cause there is no real sacrifice that u speak of

[@Gee-bg2rv]

@@kurtispowers5776 so that person isn’t sacrificing their DPS ? They’re doing as much DPS as they possibly can ?

[@Cheesecake17345]

@@Gee-bg2rv Personal dps is completely irrelevant compared to team dps, of course that person sacrifices dps, but the more relevant team dps is increased. I've never seen a single person complain about the div user's dps after a wipe.

[@Gee-bg2rv]

@@Cheesecake17345 so in other words one person sacrifices DPS. Right or wrong? Yes it’s for overall higher DPS of the team, but one person still sacrifices DPS

[@bilsack1389]

I was waiting for this video, i knew you would make 1 about this.

[@syphonexp4695]

Coldheart buff pitch: multi kills generate arc wells and becoming amplified auto loads and overloads the magazine by 1.5% (every other proc of amplification if the timer is still active)

[@AkamuSlayer]

It's nice to be able to run Well and Div, I like playing support, I like buffing my teammates and helping them play better. Somehow, all the support tools are on the shitlist of the """elite""" players and streamers. Boots of the Assembler got nerfed, Lumina has never been good, healing grenades are a pain to use, there's really no system in place for monitoring the status of your teammates and providing buffs and heals when they need them like in many similar games. The game that these 0.1% Day 1 runners are playing is not the same game everyone else is playing and I honestly wish they would be completely ignored by Bungie. Everything they want seems to be bad for literally everybody else.

[@demonipo]

Everyone focusing on how Div makes DPS easier as if raids and dungeons are only about damage and not the encounter mechanic that will always wipe you if you fuck up

[@googleaccountNr]

Div only makes sense in 6 man activities, so let them have it. Superior players like salt will always find a way to challenge themselves, so the content is never too easy. And if everyone has the chance to use it in raid races its not unfair aswell. There are so many other things that make this game "too easy", like every new ability. Look at duality for example where all you need for a flawless run is solar titan melee... just boring imo

[@anarchy6138]

They could just make it do less dmg if people are using the same weapon to dmg the div bubble. So two Hotheads would make the dmg halfed, three would make the total crit dmg 1/3 and so on till it's doing 1/6 of the total crit dmg. It would help force weapons of the same class to be used and make for a more diverse loadout amoung the team. They could add a catalyst that makes one person divide at random when they've done a good amount of dps, if they shoot div guy it would reload the div guy from reserve. Any ideas on how to improve this idea?

[@FairyFarron]

I'm annoyed because no one in my 4 man group has this yet and I've been trying to get it to help us out but if it's nerfed how he wants then there's no reason to get it. Bungie tends to overdo it when it comes to nerfing things.

[@spherexxx44]

I would love for every CC that made a video about Dev lately to dedicat an entier weekend to do only LFG raids, one weekend non other than raids because lets be honest it's only used there in raids , 5 randos and CC rolling on Rhulk, and only after this experince I'll lestin to all of your argement about changeing yet another fantastic raid exotic to join the fallen in collection, as it stands now it's elite problem, or like Datto puts it , rich people problem, us average joes are totally fine.

[@j-weava2330]

Divinity is a good way for people to have a ready load out quickly as it allows my friend to play the raid who which has a job and college to still play and be raid ready so I don’t think it should be nerfed even then div doesn’t really work on bosses like golgoroth and crypt security and atraks and more

[@joaquincaceresguibovich3182]

i play like 3 times a month and doing a raid isn't really that hard

[@masonwillms2542]

Its objectively too strong, easiest and best option negating all other debuffs. Because of that it needs a nerf

[@j-weava2330]

@@masonwillms2542 if that is the case maybe they can work out a buff for the other debuffs without it becoming obsolete because the problem of nerfing it is it becomes useless and becomes whisper 2.0. But I am curious on what you would like to see if it did get a nerf

[@melvindettinger3134]

@@j-weava2330 remove the debuff and it would be pretty balanced.

[@melvindettinger3134]

@@j-weava2330 or just make it a 15% debuff that overrides other debuffs

[@the44head]

cold heart needs to be the young wolfs howl of trace rifles. What better way to outscale div is then to just have everyone rock trace rifles , and have one empower them across the board. The exception? Having it not work with divinity.

[@MasterJunior93]

No one is asking the big question: Why is it that fireteam leaders and raid teams recommend everyone to have Divinity in the first place? the answer is this: because the boss encounters are made to have complex but easy to fuck up wipe mechanics that can frustrate lots of players AND are giant bullet sponges. Divinity circumvents those problems by debuffing the boss so that it can die faster and lessen the risk of a wipe from happening. hell, the warpriest in King's Fall has a DOOM counter, the three pillars are a countdown to enragement. once all the pillars are gone, the raid team has a last stand, and if they fail to kill the warpriest during final DPS, it's a wipe. that's the problem. Bungie makes these giant complex bullet sponges that they expect everyone and their mother to spend all their free time in trying to beat them, however everyone has lives outside Destiny. Hense why several players just want to get the encounters done with, get the loot, and finish the raid. Having a complex boss encounter is never the issue because some encounters are done right and can be enjoyable because of how they're designed, however it's because they are giant bullet sponges that becomes the issue, hense why raid teams and fireteam leaders insist on having Divinity, Outbreak Perfected, Gjallerhorn, Sleeper Simulant, Izanagi's Burden, and Whisper of the Worm because they are high damage/poison based weapons that debuff and do heavy or lingering damage. At the same time, this further brings back the whole gatekeeping mindset because if you don't have at least one of these exotics, you're not getting in. Yes, gatekeeping is still a thing, but whomever does it is being nice about it rather than toxic, however it still exists, and those that deny it are being very dishonest. This is what Bungie has to pay attention to and make the changes, stop making giant bullet sponges to the point where it becomes a necessity to break the game with overpowered exotics, or this is gonna continue happening. Hense why no one is ever asking this question or answering it. Bungie has to be called out for their own faults in making bullet sponges that take up everyone's patience and time to the point where one slip up will make someone rip their hairs off. Keep the complex raid mechanics, but stop making giant fucking bullet sponges that have lots of health, that players will be spending at least 3 weeks a piece.

[@LittleWritingV]

Yea, I don't think is fun when you are obligated to use a specific set of weapons to play and win. It's not about skill, is about who has the shiny new toy.

[@CMTechnica]

That’s not really a Bungie thing, that’s just raids in MMO in general. Really doesn’t help that it’s *all* Bungie does tho. Every raid is the same, just with different enemies and in a different location. Stand on a plate, shoot some enemies, DPS. Rinse. Repeat.

[@GlizzardWizard81]

completely off topic but does anyone know what that warlock chestpiece at @14:47? it looks sick.

[@SALEENS7GTR5]

Disable Div on Day 1 raids. Easy. Day 1s are supposed to be challenging, and no one should expect themselves to be handed a day 1 clear unless they are willing to face the challenge. It can be used for every other form of content, a little bit of compromise for everyone.

[@bannedmann4469]

After all they disabled ALL fuckin GLs and the exotic that just dropped.

[@imnotyourshadow]

If something is too strong that is has to be disabled then it is not balanced. They just need to give it a slight nerf like reducing the debuff to 15% or no debuff instead so if can still be used to help people aim better but not the best and easiest option for everything

[@laurentleplat333]

@@imnotyourshadow I’ve got no problem with Salt. He didn’t deserve to be the target of the entire community infinite well of toxicity. BUT. I wish he’d put his money where his mouth is. It’s a damn shame that controversy started AFTER Neo King’s Fall release. Otherwise I would just tell him “well, just go ahead for world first without divinity, see how it work for you”.

[@TheCourtProjects]

Two corrections re: Divinity's effects. 1. The Precision Cage doesn't make all Weapons "crit". Only weapons that possess the ability to perform precision damage can do so; Fusion Rifles, Xenophage, Explosives, most Supers, etc do not benefit nor get any additional effects when shot on this Precision Cage. They are only affected by the debuff. 2. The Debuff is 30%, not 25%. It also doesn't stack with any other Global Debuffs.

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

Only streamers agree. The people who get bored of the game because they play 12 hours a day. I'm content with complete ignoring all of their tales as they are not the ones keeping the game alive. They give it exposure but nobody is playing Destiny 2 because their favorite streamer plays it

[@mriguy7989]

And the times when Bungie actually listened to the streamers, like Escalation protocol difficulty and scaling back in Warmind, it turned out horribly. Color me surprised when designing content for the top 1% of players also alienates the other 99% and makes things worse overall for the game!!!!

[@redbaby814]

Thank you for the history of this weapon. Like I'm a VERY casual gamer, and as much as I love watching everyone play Destiny, I myself don't have the time or friends to group up and play like this. The few times that I have actually done raids, they were cheese runs and I didn't even realize what was going on most of the time. My raid experience has been Eater of Worlds, Leviathan, Spire of Stars, and Last Wish. I never got to do any of the newer raids or even dungeons for that matter. As far as if it really needs a nerf; I personally don't think so. I don't have the weapon, and I've barely seen it in use. Shoot, I've just learned what it means when people are screaming "Div" in the runs, lol. Although I believe it doesn't need a nerf, does not by any means discredit what Saltagreppo said. He seemed to have very valid opinions based on his experience and skillset.

[@pinkfluffyunicorn9712]

After the topic gets this big in the last few days we also talked in our clan about it. We're all not the best players - in Oryx World first race this season we completed the first clear, but not the challenges. Some of us have "Fatebreaker", many other, including me, will do all the raid titles in future - what i want to say: we are far away from beeing bad players, but also far away from beeing the best. And I think we, in our 6 man raid team, could do most content without div relativly easy. But we have also clanmembers, that are not so good or had not the time to farm godrolls of any good weapon, just for the case they need it anytime - and there div is a necessary weapon. We dont want do exclude them - they should get clears and raidgear, even if they are stuck to double primary to this day. But with a 45 year old family dad raiding can be stressful - and so anything to get the clear fast and save is welcome. In all other MMOs I know, its absolute standard, that normal raids are a joke for organized teams with relativly skilled players. So my attempt would be to give the .1% best players more challenges and rewards: memento for speedruns, a ornament for no death, eventually gear with more modslots, sparrows, ghost shells, shaders and so on - things that show: I am a badass. Raids are the best PVE content in this game and I want so many people as possible to experience this. Not to forget that absolute stupid and lazy bullshit to obtain raidexos as random drop. Some of us need 50+ clears to get Vex - and you get only 3 chances a week to obtain it. After months farming the same raid it becomes boring - and we want to clear it efficient - and Div got our back for this.

[@PSSKYWALKER_-]

Still never got it. Had all steps up until final boss 3 times and people would bail on the fireteam at end and could never get it finished. Super frustrating...

[@ParisPK]

The thing about Salt is that he has his own dedicated raid team that he has been with for a while who are really good experienced raiders while people like us who are casuals have to LFG and communicate with new people we don’t know. It’s like Salt is disconnected with the community. And it really was even worse when I was making fair points and his response was “if you don’t have divinity on your raid team, you are trolling” like have you done an LFG with randoms or dip your toes in the community Edited: his mains points for change was nerf Well of Radiance, Nerf Divinity, and nerf the Raid Boss Encounters and Dungeons so the game is will be harder. This will make LFGs more harder to find and it will divide the community in half. Also divinity is not mandatory in any raid LFG or dungeon, this is plainly incorrect

[@HumzyTumzy]

if divinity gets nerfed my purpose as the div bitch is over

[@e1eventy7t]

my issue with the nerf is that every time I had it and wouldn't have had it post-nerf, my team would be doing piss poor damage because the argument of "elitist" or "top whatever percent player" is valid especially when I have to play with 5 people sharing the same malfunctioning braincell. div makes lower skill play bearable and forces bungie to up the hp of every boss in a day one challenge raid anyway. However, if it were to get a nerf, I would suggest giving it insane recoil, lower flinch resist, and a specific pattern to be memorized alongside lowering the bubbles size slightly. This would turn it into a more skillful weapon that should be used by the player whos best at aiming on the team. Additionally, they should make it function so that ONLY sustained fire activates its perk-- no bursting. Which would lower its ammo efficiency overall and the lower the bubble's uptime in longer damage phases.

[@phillipgamer2222]

I agree with these nerf ideas, if they do decide to nerf it. Keep the bubble and its buffs, just make it to where it isn't up as long

[@waitwhat238]

It's just Gatekeepers vs. Normal, Level-Headed people

[@brendanpowell6043]

Divinity should be tweaked so that you don’t need to tap fire it. Have judgement and penance work in a similar way to how both Coldheart and Prometheus Lens do. Damage ramps up and the bubble grows. It could also be tweaked to do the opposite. Damage starts off higher and crit spot starts off bigger, but both the damage from the weapon and the bubble reduce over time

[@Killomainia]

Or everytime penance pops it applies the debuff, but it only lasts a few seconds. So you have to lay on the trigger to keep it applied. Because the ammo economy for div is to lenient when tap fired, meaning players have to dump the entire reserves for a dmg cycle

[@0Rosanna]

Maybe also give it like a fourth times the charm perk as well

[@barnabyhenderson3599]

Divinity doesn't need to be nerfed, but not for the reason everyone thinks. There are only 3 encounters were divinity is required for optimal damage - taniks, oryx and rhulk, and even then taniks is debatable. In every single other raid boss, it's more optimal to run debuff tether or tractor cannon and double slugs/snipes. This is because you get the same debuff, except all 6 people are still doing damage. This means that casual players get their easy damage with div and more hardcore players get their more optimised damage for quicker and more consistent 1 phases.

[@olaff4223]

This has 100% turned into a "let them eat cake" situation. One of the best players calling for a nerf to a gun a whole lot of people don't have, and then the unwashed masses say that that's just dumb, then the other aristocracy has just turned on the casual peasants over night. I made it like 2 minutes into Datto's response, and I've never had a videogame make me want to build a guillotine. I'm more weary of this than literally every creator calling literally every change broken. The good thing is, Destiny Antoinette did give all of you creators at least a 2 full weeks of low effort videos.

[@bannedmann4469]

Lol

[@seagullsays5831]

Based.

[@CrimsonThunder_]

Title seems like a perfect representation of the Divinity situation: an exaggeration of something that would otherwise not be a problem. Don’t know if that was intentional, but if so, well played.

[@bobisconsumed520]

personally I think problem is theres no more challenging content in Destiny other than Raids and Grandmaster. Thered be less calls for nerfs if there was more content like Legend Witch Queen or option to solo Strikes like Dungeons

[@830whart]

In my best joker impersonation: “Bungie decides to nerf the mountaintop weapon and quest (since not that many players had it) and nobody bats an eye, but let someone suggest a divinity nerf (a more common weapon) and everyone loses their minds!

[@S6Photon]

Just increase the Crit Ratio on bosses to be more than that of the Divinity Crit. More shots hit for less damage, or risk missing shots for greater reward damage.

[@cyborg5088]

BRO FACTS

[@MX4hm3d]

More Shuro chi like bosses

[@shiloh3541]

Such a simple but effective solution

[@frasertowns1530]

A trade off for div could be the same as ager the debuff drains super or even have the defuff effect the user aswell. Div makes teaching raids to new lights alot easier imo. Another thing they could do is exclude it from day 1 raids.

[@EnragedCucco]

Drain from super is an interesting idea, but I don't think that nerfing it would make much of a difference to teaching new lights a raid anyways. Removing or nerfing the debuff from the gun doesn't change the fact that it helps new lights hit their shots more frequently. It also allows bosses to be designed around having a lower uptime on debuffs making it easier on new lights, especially for those newer players that might not purchase shadowkeep.

[@i_am_dusky113]

I agree with datto this problem is “rich people problems”

[@trombonerist2856]

Did a Divinity run a few days ago. It’s truly one of the Divinity runs of all time.

[@gios2211]

That was really fast. Good job :)

[@solitudeau8188]

Back in Shadowkeep, i was a recognized sherpa. I took noobs/casuals through every raid we had available, start to finish with no man left behind. I did a few divinity quests for others but my first was extremely painful and that pain must yield some reward. Before divinity we had Izanagi, tractor, spike nades and debuff abilities/supers (shadowshot) In 95% of these runs, i didnt use divinity and the people i was taking with me didn't always have the best weaponry. Usually spike nades, rarely izanagi but we made do with what we had. I think that divinity is not a necessity for public runs, but if you really want to optimize damage, then in most cases divinity did that for you, but its only as good as what you pair with it. A week ago, i booted up Destiny 2 for the free event for the first time since the infamous "Season of the Bounty" which forced me away from the game that i loved and the community i had personally fostered of trusted players to run new content and help others reach our level of knowledge. We weren't champions, but we were good enough that we got the job done and the shadowkeep jacket (pre-extension). I booted up with some friends to get ghally, none of us ran divinity. I think two of us used a sword and the other might have been using whisper or spike nades. We all had divinity, it didn't even cross our minds when it was time for the boss. This constant mentality of instant gratification in gaming has come down to one side being 'sweaty nerds who need to touch grass' and the other being 'extreme casuals who get 30 mins of playtime before they have to sleep on the couch'. What happened to just having fun? Why can't I load up a raid with people and have a good time, even if we dont complete it? Wipes are somewhat tilting, especially the close ones, but you get past it and if the teams burnt out, you try again next time. You have a whole week to get it done. That said, if i had a choice between divinity or a gun with overload on a difficult nightfall, i'm probably going to pick divinity because of the time/score requirements. There are of course alternatives, as not everyone has divinity, and people should be more open-minded because wipes will happen to lesser players with or without divinity. I can safely say with confidence that the vast majority of those crying for nerfs don't actually think it's a problem, but the problem comes from public LFGs making having Divinity MANDATORY or they get kicked because someone doesnt have it. The same way everyone had to have izanagi or they got kicked. This is a community issue first and foremost and this is not unique to destiny, it happens in *every* game. I cannot speak of what happens in the upper echelon of players but i understand the angle that it trivializes fights. When i did Riven legitimately in last wish (no cheese) it was the most fun i'd had in a raid to date. The satisfaction was incredible, everything about that boss is fantastic and honestly, I would feel rather pissed if my dev time went into something people just decided to go "lmao spike grenades go brrr" and delete the boss, but thats what happens when you have a trove of information at your fingertips like we do today, someone else has already done the hard yards and crunched the numbers so little tim tim can speedrun content, denying people along the way who didn't have everything, and then complain there's nothing to do in the game anymore. I apologize for the text wall, but I miss destiny, I miss my community and I miss that feeling of satisfaction when you overcome a struggle. I think everyone does, they just don't want to admit it. What happened to us?

[@alderstifen7738]

I can atleast speak for the section having an entire week, typically I don't. 6 people have to align their schedules so that they have a multi-houred session to complete a raid. That is a tall ask for people who have uni/college and/or work, but you can manage with one a week maybe. Not completing a raid the first few times because you're feeling out the encounters is fine, but if raids are hard enough that it's taking many weeks to even crack one as a team that's a little much for me. Also to speak on the feeling of satisfaciton when overcoming a struggle, I/we still are. Recently did King's Fall, had to maximize our DPS and even then Warpriest kicked our ass and we didn't finish the raid. The only "easy" boss (which took us less than an hour) was Daughters.

[@solitudeau8188]

@@alderstifen7738 obviously I didn’t mean you are online for 7 days to clear one thing. You took that way out of context I’d like to add as well that I got into destiny only because of mate at uni, while also working PPT in tourism. If I can make time for a raid so can you. Unless you’re doing 10-12 hour shifts 6 days a week, it’s hard to speak here. “Taking weeks to crack a raid” If you have as little time as you say it’s going to take you weeks especially with “such severe time constraints”. Especially if you miss a week because of scheduling

[@alderstifen7738]

@@solitudeau8188 I wasn't talking about taking the whole 7 days to do a raid, that's ridiculous and I wouldn't imply that. What I was saying was I only get 1 chance to raid with my group a week at best. We wont get more than one shot to complete a raid, so coming back later isn't an option. "If I can make time for a raid so can you" yea sorry that some schedules with family, other commitments, and so on tend to go before Destiny. Our group isn't actively tied to Destiny, we have it as a game we can play as a group once a week at best for 6-8 hours if we're lucky. You're stickmaning me saying that your situation is the worst possible case. Ok buddy. Also as a side, atleast one person in our group is doing consistent 5 shifts every week 10 to 12 hours each day. Not exactly what you asked but it's close I think. I'm not sure where you got "such severe time constraints" to be quoted but the "taking weeks to crack a raid" was as a last case scenario. I would rather have easy raids rather than very hard ones that require many weeks of effort to finish.

[@naiveveg8447]

cuz the people who dont play the game for fun expect everyone to struggle to get to the top like them. evry time i make d2 easy (or easier in this case) i feel accomplished from that, not raising some bar so others cant join me.

[@solitudeau8188]

@@naiveveg8447 if something is easy it’s not worth doing

[@toddriehle7675]

12:30 these voices had me dying 😂 I love this channel

[@GalenLeRaaz]

Div is mandatory on 2 bosses - Taniks and Oryx. Taniks, because the crit spot is bobbing and weaving and Oryx because he cannot be tethered. 2 bosses. Every other encounter in every other raid, strike and dungeon can be beaten without it, even on Master. But yeah, "Divinity is mandatory". NO. Divinity is optional. in almost all actiivties, Div can be used, but there is no need for it. Never has been. This a "1%'s problem". No one wants to hear it.

[@Cheesecake17345]

It's not mandatory, but calling it fine just because it's optional also isn't a sound argument. If we had an exotic linear fusion rifle that straight up did 50% more damage than any other dps option, it wouldn't be mandatory in a single activity or encounter, but everyone would still agree it needs to be tuned. The point here is that div is very clearly the best option on every fight that has an extended dps phase in any raid, div's use frequency is not the problem, its insane dominance in its use case is.

[@GalenLeRaaz]

@@Cheesecake17345 we had that. It was called Sleeper Simulant and it could do 200% or more damage due to riccohet dmg. Also, there was autoloading with rifts/lunafaction boots and rally barricades meta, and multiple debuff/buff stacking, nerfed before... SHADOWKEEP _shocked Pikachu face_ It's just like Bungie made all those nerf in anticipation of an exotic that would allow players to compensate... But no one remembers that was a thing. Just screeching "Div is too strong!" like a bunch of fudds, when You dare to say something bad about M1911. And is it the best option? My team uses it only for one phasing some bosses during couple of raids, haven't even used it in AGES in GMs or dungeons.

[@EclipseHighroller]

Div isn’t mandatory on oryx at all, he literally has the largest crit spot in the game. I’d say Taniks and rhulk as their crit spots are near impossible to hit.

[@GalenLeRaaz]

@@EclipseHighroller on Oryx, it's not the crit spot, it's the debuff - tether doesn't affect Oryx for some reason

[@abemeyers5009]

I don’t think it was really about the nerf to divinity but more about the fact that salt just kept repeating himself over and over the guy has an ego the size of a planet and when he argues he comes off as condescending a lot of the time I think if he would’ve taken a different approach to how to nerf div but in a more forgiving way then people wouldn’t hate on him so much

[@mijailjn]

I think that a way to resolve the divinity problems, instead of nerfing it or "reworking" it (lets be honest it will be either good or bottom tier) why not desing encounters that requiere more mechanical work instead of "shoot the bad guy" lets take a look at DSC and the first encounter (to blow the fuses you dont need div), descent encounter (more about teamwork and coordination) or using well executed mechanics to indirectly damage a boss (just like in the division 2 with the train in iron horse raid) or even adding some mmo mechanics to destiny... imagine puddles or aoes that chase players during damage phases or splitting fireteams. There are alternatives to phase out divinity without the need to touch a good exotic.

[@kingtrentinius659]

Think another good option since he literally won worlds first 3xs is just stop using it. Since he thinks it’s too easy

[@Lorentz_Driver]

THANK YOU. Div is fine in the current state of the game, which is just gear checks and damage numbers.

[@MetalDEmpire]

I dont like quests that require additional people to complete, because some of us dont have people to play with, so already, Div started within a walled garden, pun intended, and only those that are of good enough caliber, or with friends, can complete the quest. Me personally, I'll probably never get Div, so its not a problem that I deal with, aka, RICH PEOPLE PROBLEMS

[@manuelvalerin8914]

I feel if higher end players want to challenge themselves, use div... but use a lower light level class item. Idk. Just bc u have high gear, doesn't mean you have to sport it out. Kind of like making your own challenge mode. I don't want to come off toxic, I just thought it might be a different way to try it

[@retr0pearce765]

As Datto put it, Saltagreppo saying Div needs a nerf is comparable to rich people problems. The average player does not care about those, because they're ridiculous. Streamers play this game for a job, of course the game is ridiculously easy for them, hell I play it as a second job and I'm good enough to hit crits without it, but why bother if it is there? Not all of my lfg's are gonna be as good or better than me, sometimes the 1 player being taught has Div and then they get to be useful and makes them feel like they're helping, let them feel that way

[@bannedmann4469]

Content creators and streamers have been a detriment to the game multiple times before. Remember this when forming an opinion. They aren't your friends. This isn't a game to them, it's money.

[@reapermanjr4891]

I don't like how a part of aztec vid was cut. Aztec didn't think divinity needed nerfed.

[@hearthearter]

How has this divided the whole community. From what I can tell only streamers want it nerfed or toned down a little.

[@BCrudeless]

I think their biggest mistake was expecting twitter to be respectful of others

[@diamonddaveproductions8427]

“Let them fight”