The F-15 Is Good, BUT... | War Thunder Update : Air Superiority

[@Petkopanchov]

So when the F14 had 6 AIM-7F against 2 R-24R, everything was fine, but now when the Su-27 has 6 R-27ER its a problem... a boneless hypocrits... Seek-er try the but-hurt rant samoware else...

[@SeekerHead]

You should probably at least know a little bit about somebody before you make comments like this. Here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5_UeZRsetJlm9U kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWLPY2l-n7OYa5o People like you are so caught up in your pride, nationalism, and favorite jets, that you cannot POSSIBLY fathom somebody can dislike ALL forms of imbalance, regardless of which nation it is occurring in. I was a big advocate against the F-14, which was definitely a more egregious addition than the Su-27. That doesnt make the Su27 okay though, and it's completely fine to be against both.

[@theflyinggasmask]

lol, the R-24R was and still is better than any of the current AIM-7s. As bullshit as the F-14 was, It could at least be dodged.

[@sigmatate3235]

Yes because the aim 7s are trash even compared to the r24 maybe think for more than 2 seconds before making brain dead comments

[@mike4402]

common brainless russian player that doesn't know how easy they got it.

[@25husky]

it's the one nice thing the US got lol, you guys are pampered 24/7, calm tf down

[@dondelchulia3189]

The fact the r-27 with its 9% historic success rate has a better seeker than 7ms with a 68% success rate is just too gijan Edit: cause this caused such a stir. I get that Russia probably needed a better missile when the aim-54 was good, but the r-27er entered service in 1990, and the aim-120 did in 1991. That itself isn’t massive issue as the in game counterparts both are fox-1 missiles, but just acknowledge that it’s a little silly when historical data argues against the levels of performance we’re seeing.

[@jerryle379]

Interest , data link ? Only war r-27 use was by ethiopian and enritrea , the ethiopian su27 pretty much rape Eritrea f5 - mig 29

[@buschacha]

Buddy the Russians couldn’t even shoot down an unescorted RC-135 with its R-27. But keep huffing the copium

[@FastEagle301]

​​@@jerryle379During that war 30 R-27s was launched by both sides. 1. ONE hit. Out of 30.

[@1KosovoJeSrbija1]

mmmm yes misleading statistics, like how the soviet space shuttle was 100% effective cause it only flew once

[@1KosovoJeSrbija1]

@@jameshopkins5702 so high on nationalism bro is living a fantasy, plus the aim 120 entered service in 1991, so if the F-15 got the aim 120, then the SU-27 would get the R-77, and all toptier ballance would be completely ruined.

[@atlasrowe864]

Considering the Russian Dev stream stated that aamraams are are coming either next update or the one after, this F15 feels reminiscent of when the F16ADF was first added. the next two patches are gonna cream the game with one of the best F15s ever I believe and this is just a stepping stone unfortunately.

[@brecibros2469]

The adf was meta when it first came out what are you talking about bro?

[@othmanesalahddine9575]

⁠@@brecibros2469it was Trash compared to the 29

[@Migthunder]

​@othmanesalahddine9575 gaijin need to fix the flight model of the mig29

[@Shadowseer7930]

when the ADF released it had a dog s*** flight model and couldn't turn over Mach​ @@brecibros2469

[@brecibros2469]

@@othmanesalahddine9575 it wasn't really

[@axiolot5857]

just wish they'd make the 7m's suck less, sometimes they miss easy shots, sometimes they just explode or no reason, kind of annoying

[@xavsul9108]

It's worse with the 530D The minute you slightly lose lock the 530D self-destroy

[@axiolot5857]

@@xavsul9108shouldnt have played the french then

[@xavsul9108]

Mirage still has a good radar and very good performance plus magic 2 are great rn

[@xAWTxREDMIST]

ngl I prefer the 7m’s over the 27er. Yeah sometimes it randomly detonates but my lord they feel better at tracking. I love the 73’s and constantly bounce between smt and 16A. 27ER’s for my are wildly inconsistent, randomly going into orbit after launch and spiraling to blatantly turning to the side and tracking a friendly that’s no where near my locked target. At release the 27ER was amazing but they tweaked something last patch that makes it feel terrible. Because of that i’m starting with the 15j to test the aam3 instead of taking 4 27s just to smack teammates with 😅

[@ceasarbills3877]

​@@xAWTxREDMISTwell I mean that doesn't change the fact it's the best missle in the game by alot

[@Akira556]

Bro that pull at 2:28 was insane

[@batlax18]

Yeah the F15 like the F16 (a lot shorter) gets a window where it just PULLS

[@farrelltadina]

@@batlax18the beauty of energy-maneuverability

[@shinobu2394]

the speed during that pull, thats around the speed irl where it pulls really good too

[@rednuclearmc3856]

looks like they gave the F-15 the A-4 treatment

[@bitofapickle]

At this point, I'd say the mirage 4000 is a true contender for the best top toer jet. Sure, may not have good radar missiles, but the 8 magic 2a that it can carry are amazing, hard to flare from a rear aspect , flight performance is amazing, and im not even a french main lol.

[@evangalinsky2499]

They're not the best radar missiles but I would say the 530D is pretty good.

[@Scoobert._.]

It should be better it much slower then it should be

[@bitofapickle]

@@Scoobert._. source ?:D

[@hotrodgreg504]

I still think that if it could carry 3 530Ds and 4 magics it would not be anywhere near OP. The only area that it might be considered OP for now is in a 1v1, which almost never happen sadly. And if enough people comment about its great performance, I can see gaijin nerfing it so that it looks worse than the Su27.

[@collander7766]

R-73 is pretty easily better than the Magic 2 so idk about that. Pair that with more missiles which are better, and the Su-27 is quite easily the best jet

[@jaymajn]

The R27ER and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race…

[@appa609]

They should have just left it at R27R's until AIM-120A's

[@GrapeFlavoredAntifreeze]

The saddest part about the ERs is that they didn’t even really enter service until the US was already ready to field the AIM-120

[@ex0ghost837]

@@GrapeFlavoredAntifreeze what are u even saying lol

[@GrapeFlavoredAntifreeze]

@@ex0ghost837 It’s very simple. By the time the R-27ER entered service in real life (1991), the AIM-120 was being put into service. Goes to show you the service gap gaijin has to use in order to just make russian aircraft equal to NATO aircraft

[@bohanzhang4195]

​@@GrapeFlavoredAntifreezethen, when US gets its aim120, USSR will also get r77 in Gaijin world.😅 Cyber Russia No.1, fking bvvd

[@JSDFEnthusiast]

Gaijin won't give the Abrams it's proper armor and equipment because "unreliable sources", the Gripen's canards supposed to be moving downwards at high aoa is an "unfixable issue", amraams are "too powerful for the game right now" *stop the cap*

[@hellogoodbye388]

No tws and no hmd vs the 27 is bs.

[@Loudward__]

Without AMRAAM’s the F15 feels like it’s artificially handicapped.

[@Murpledpc]

absalutely

[@fqeagles21]

Usual Gaijin UNGA BUNGA

[@richelieubestship1129]

So are the Su-27 and Gripen, and way before that even, the Mirage 2000-5F, it's not JUST the F-15, it's just that Gaijin hasn't introduced new Fox 3 AA missiles yet

[@I-02]

Water is wet.

[@pell9538]

You could say the same for the Gripen. At the time of the f15's submission into service the f15A, C, and E only had aim7's and aim9's. It wasnt until the 90's the f15C and E got amraams. The Gripen went into service in the 90's with fox 3's so they are actually artificially nerfed, not the f15.

[@I-02]

The general mood of this video basically reflects the entire update.

[@cagingskies9584]

I could perfectly understand why the R27ER was added to the original MiG-29 back when it only had R60M’s and a useless radar. However, it’s been very frustrating to see how the R27ER has gone on to negatively affect the game, with no real equal. I know many people prefer the R73, and many prefer the AIM 9M, so lets just consider them roughly equivalent, for the sake of your average Air RB match. This just leaves the Fox 1’s left to consider. The AIM 7M and normal R27 are also roughly equivalent, with a slight edge to the AIM 7M. On top of this, the flight performance of the F16/MiG 29 and SU27/F15 should be quite easy to balance too (in theory), with the Soviet aircraft tending to be better at slower speed AOA fighting, and the American jets better and energy fighting etc.. It’s quite painful to watch and see Gaijin opt to balance jets like the F16 and MiG 29 by giving one completely insane flight performance, and the other completely superior weaponry, when they could bring both of them closer together in both flight performance and weaponry, making for much more interesting gameplay in my opinion. Now it looks like we’re going to be soon rushing headfirst into a meta of more lethal Fox 3’s, and we never got to experience a properly balanced Fox 1 era.

[@GrummanTestPilot]

Yaaaaaaaaaapper

[@cagingskies9584]

@@GrummanTestPilot ☝️🤓

[@hellogoodbye388]

No tws and no hmd vs the 27 is bs.

[@appa609]

The radar needs to be better. That's the F-15's main weapon.

[@stormlord1177]

The su 27 is a decade newer than the f15. How the hell did they think this was a good idea, f15 needs its aim 120's or modernized aim7mh or aim7p blocks 1 or 2

[@skittlesbutwithchocolatein2274]

gaijin has to feed their bias

[@jzadams5818]

Because the SU-27 is a direct competitor to the F-15. They have similar flight performance. If they went by historical release the game would suck. However, yes we should have gotten late AIM-7s updates ago. The game is not ready for AMRAAMs until they fix air rb to have multiple spawns and base locations.

[@GeneralArmchair]

Have you even LOOKED at the tech trees? Have you not noticed the WWII heavy tanks getting trolled by time traveling HEATFS and APFSDS? All things considered the F-15 and Su-27 is a well balanced matchup compared to most of the game. Year of introduction isn't considered whatsoever for BR placement.

[@stormlord1177]

@GeneralArmchair yeah thats been a problem for a long time, and i agree it's a problem.

[@niggalini]

This isn't the 1976 F-15 however. That F-15 would be way out of meta with its fantastic flight performance, but a kit of AIM-7F/AIM-9J and zero provisions for countermeasures. The MSIP F-15 in game is from 1983, preceding the Su-27 by two years. The big problem is the R-27ER having no counter imo, I'd say early AMRAAMs are a perfect counter, since they get the advantage of being ARH, with the disadvantage of being slower and less maneuverable than the ER. At the same time, AIM-7MH (and 7P for the Naval jets) would bridge the gap as well, being able to loft and having inertial navigation giving it similar "intelligence" to the R-27ER

[@MagentaFerret]

It's insanity that the R-27ER has a way better seeker than the AIM-7M lmao. Where is the AIM-7P????

[@yester8039]

Then, in 2022 a flanker shoots 2 R-27's at a slow and huge spy plane and the 2 fail to track, at high altitude and no clutter but hey, let gaijin alone in their wet dream about the russian air force XD

[@MaraAmaraaaa]

@@yester8039 I'd like to read that, would you kindly share the keywords or links that I could go to? Ty mate

[@BulletRain100]

​@@MaraAmaraaaa Just Google the family of missiles in general. It has performed poorly in every conflict it's been it that it was generally better to not even bring the missile in the first place.

[@yester8039]

@@MaraAmaraaaa You can search it just about everywhere, happened on the 29th of September 2022. NATO keept it secret until it leaked out almost a year later and some kid working in the USAF leaked more about it, it was a RAF RC-135 conducting reconnaissance near Ukraine, 2 SU-27 closed in and in a "misscomunication" the lead pilot shot a radar missile, the normal loadout for russian planes is still the R-27 for radar missiles, the missile failed to track, then it shot another and also failed to track. The pilot stoped when his wingman started yelling over the radio that they did not have been cleared to shoot and then went home. The thing about it is, in FOX-1's a really important piece of the missile is the seeker head, wich is not implemented in WT, seeker heads for radar missiles were really bad till 80's and 90's, thats why they missed a lot, and NATO allways had the upper hand due to better seeker and recivers on their missiles, thats why in WT the Sparrow should stomp the R27, not in range but in reliability and the R27 should fail to reach the target a LOT more than it actually does.

[@bigmemer4398]

Aim-7P won't fix a damn thing

[@Ars_Illyrian]

It was obvious that a plane with 8 inferior missiles isn't on par with a plane with 10 superior missiles plus HMD. Thrust won't help you out.

[@roberttauzer7042]

They are close enough that the pilot skill will prevail. Top tier is a mess anyways.

[@GranadaFelish]

@@roberttauzer7042 They are not close at all lmao

[@mich421]

Wait a few months then there will be fox 3 for everyone and they will all have more or less the same speed

[@raphaelambrosiuscosteau6685]

​@@GranadaFelishthey are. F15 vs su27 is like f86 vs mig15. Or you want bullshit FM and complete nerf of su27's like they did with mig29 and f16?

[@GranadaFelish]

@@raphaelambrosiuscosteau6685 It's not like that at all. I've been playing WT since 2013 I know how F86s, MiG15bis, 17s and Hunters felt when they were top dogs. It's not a matter of energy retention or turning ability anymore, that actually took skill. The Su27 is superior to the F15 in all the important elements of top tier now, it has better missiles, more of them, better close range IR missiles with thrust vectoring + HMD and IRST. Not to mention it's flight performance is better in literally every single aspect except top speed and thrust to weight. The thing is literally almost unbeatable in close quarters except you on a Gripen or M4K, and don't get a thrust vectoring R73 into your canopy. And in BVR it's just fucking hilarious.

[@williamedmonds9581]

I wonder if they’ll eventually add the F-18 Hornet and the Super Hornet.

[@trxpiin4727]

Yea and only give them sparrows 🤦

[@evangalinsky2499]

Honestly this comment is just dumb. No shit they're coming eventually.

[@batlax18]

They’ll get there eventually, and people are speculating that it’ll be next update or the one after, which will also probably bring amraam

[@skillz674]

I wonder if the sun is going to set today.

[@Inv1ns1bl]

you know they will because they only care about money

[@UselessNekoGang]

Its kinda crazy that the jet with the best kill to death ratio irl is getting filtered by a russian copycat lmao

[@kingghidorah8106]

the f-15 faced MiG21 pilots that didnt even have a radar warning receiver, that's just as fair as putting Topuria against the cranky 80 year old neighbor that needs to stand up with help of a crook.

[@skyrimn00b98]

This update should have just been called "Russian Superiority." The bias is so blatant that it makes me wonder if the devs will get arrested if RU isn't at the top of the meta. Either that, or they're just super Z freaks.

[@shinobu2394]

just you wait, we have it good now these planes are still competitive, probably because info on these planes are public, wait until we get to the classified shit, like how its going with the tanks right now. Looking at what is happening with tanks, when we get shit that we know nothing about everyone else is just fucked cus they're going to start heavily bullshitting missile and plane performance and guess whos shit is going to conveniently be soo much better while everyone elses shit is conveniently shittier?

[@Connor22Abrams4]

We're at the point where US vehicles are going to be better than anything anyone else has (in terms of performance, what they have, etc.) Gaijin is trying to rectify this by giving the US base variants of these vehicles without their iconic upgrades for balancing purposes. However, this leads to the issue of the vehicle under-performing.

[@FallenPhoenix86]

The F-15A we got and the Su-27 we got are both representative of their real life counterparts from the late '80's... we don't have an equipment gimped F-15. If we had gotten an advanced USAF standard of the Eagle then we would also be looking at Typhoon's and Rafale's in the same update.

[@batlax18]

Yeah, I hope that when/if we get to the f22 it’s not just nerfed 6 feet underground

[@jonathanpfeffer3716]

⁠@@FallenPhoenix86Yeah, the 27ER (entered service in ‘90 btw) having more reliable tracking than the 7M definitely is representative of its real life counterparts lol.

[@FallenPhoenix86]

@@Slight- Neat trick since MSIP II jets were available years ahead of the AMRAAM. The game was already full of jets that could carry the AMRAAM before the patch... not an F-15 issue.

[@FallenPhoenix86]

@@Slight- The jets are perfectly capable of carrying the AMRAAM, I never said they couldn't... What I said was that AMRAAM didn't exist, it was still in development when the MSIP II jets were being delivered. It's perfectly acceptable to have the F-15 with no AMRAAM in game since they flew like that IRL for years. Now bear in mind that the F-104S ASA can face the Su-27 and stop crying about having the (at worst) second/third best fighter in game.

[@lelandcheng9187]

I Think its new this patch but i noticed the f16adf and f16aj can now switch radar mode during lock, surprised me cause they definitely did not do that last patch.

[@Elbereth_TV]

i've only seen like 8 F15s today, compared to 200+ SUs and like 50 39s

[@DevinEMILE]

Funny i've seen the opposite. I see about 1-2 Gripens a Match usually Swedish. I dont see alot of the British ones other then mine. A bunch of F15s, and 1 or 2 of the SUs a match. That being said i see a lot less American planes in general. And more MIg29s. Think a lot of people are still grinding.

[@Elbereth_TV]

@@DevinEMILEfew more f15s today, but almost all japs

[@saltysteel3996]

No AMRAAM is BS.

[@arturburner7029]

Every lobby was full of 27s, 11s and griphens today. Saw only a few f15s like maby 10 in just over 10 games.

[@Jaeger_89]

Despite loving the F-15 and most of the new content, I'll still keep away from 12.3 BR. The bullshitness of R-73s and Aim-9Ms is just insufferable, as demonstrated by the last clip. Air RB is cool up until 10.3 - 11.0... The WW2 content is still king in this game in all three categories (air/ground/naval)... At least there's the AMX to try out, though...

[@Elbereth_TV]

this is why the gripen and F15s shouldve gotten aim120 A/Bs

[@arcroyal1258]

Nope stop powercreeping bud.

[@robertm3329]

@@arcroyal1258 At least make the R27 realistic

[@arcroyal1258]

@@robertm3329 Which would be fair

[@Elbereth_TV]

aim120As wouldnt even be powercreep dude, they're almost sparrows without the lock requirement, completely fair when the SU gets 6 fkin ERs and the 39 gets the OG skyflash...@@arcroyal1258

[@aflyingcowboy31]

​@@arcroyal1258they're getting AMRAAMs at the start of next year anyways....

[@jeffreyr4560]

My biggest problem is that the F100-PW-100 falls around 6000 lbs of thrust short per engine which is a huge reduction on what it should be.

[@hellogoodbye388]

No tws and no hmd vs the 27 is bs.

[@LowTide100]

Have you tested to the speed on deck and on higher altitudes. I believe they nerfed it a little, top speed wise.( The Eagle could stand on its tail and climb straight up, accelerating to supersonic speed as it went. It could reach 98,000 feet in less than three and one half minutes)

[@21babydew]

the streak eagle could do that stuff a bare bones anything unneccesary ripped out f15a

[@ICECAPPEDSKY]

Fastest I got it going was Mach 2.34 on the deck at 13,800m. In a shallow dive I got it to Mach 2.4. Keep in mind this is a clean loadout on min fuel in the test drive. It should be able to hit Mach 2.5 but it can’t. The IRL stripped down F15A was the record setter and hit the speed pretty handily and the service F15A should also be able to hit Mach 2.5 if given enough time, it just can’t in game. But Mach 2.34 is not slow I will say and with a air to air loadout you could probably still easily reach Mach 2.2 with fuel as well

[@mokaso]

If Gaijin would just give it Aim-7Ps to help with the “I’m down tracking now” issue regarding the Sparrows, I’ve have no real issue with it.

[@parkebridgeman7223]

It seems better than the first version we saw of it, but F16c is still the best jet in the US line

[@crazymixture57]

Imagine how we feel as Japanese mains. The F-15 in it's current state would have been fine enough last year given how the F-16 is and we said as much. Everyone said it was too soon and we told everyone but were told to keep quiet as a minor nation. Now we are proven right.

[@p3rran]

​@@crazymixture57British mains have had it worse...

[@crazymixture57]

@@p3rran cry with wooden teeth George Washington

[@nickwanrooy6130]

I would have liked to see the amraam. However I still don't get why we don't have the aim 7p. Just give us the aim7p block 2. It's a mid 1980s veraion of the sparrow. With improved flight performance (harder to notch pulls more G's) and it has datalink so you can lose lock for a bit and the missle won't go stupid. It still uses the same engine as the f/m models so no range increase This missle wouldn't beat the 27er bit it would get close enough. The 27er still has more range and is faster. But at least tracking and data link should be similar

[@hotrodgreg504]

I 100% agree with you on the su27 load out being too good compared to everyone else. Gonna play the french bias card here, but why cant the 4000 have the option to carry 4 magic2s and 3 530Ds? It doesnt get a HMD so it wouldnt be able to pull off those BS launches like all of the top tier russian and american jets can making it "too good" in the eyes of non french jet enjoyers.

[@KaguyasBeat]

It's interesting that upgraded versions of the 7M haven't been implemented... at least in the department of the thing not giving up immediately cuz the lock is lost for 0.001 seconds. It still couldn't compare to the ER but it wouldn't be an unwelcome addition. I'm using the 16AJ going for the F-15J and the 7F's have just been acting really goofy. Basically to the extent I would just take the extra 9L's instead but that's of course naturally when you find yourself in a perfect BVR situation.

[@ParadoxedLL7]

Love how the f15 has pulled 16Gs in real life but it’s so handicapped in the game

[@Off-roading1]

Ya because Gijain is always russia first and it Dumb SU-27 makes me want to die i hate the bs of the 27 F-15 needs AMRAMMS

[@Mannskas]

Has it? Since as far as I am aware It also has a G limiter in place to prevent airframe damage beyond 9g

[@ParadoxedLL7]

@@Mannskas that’s the f16

[@Mannskas]

@@ParadoxedLL7 same for any of the teen series, I believe F-16 might have the biggest exception here since it's airframe can hold up at 10g, F-18 takes permanent damage at 9 and F-15 wings get permanently flexed hence all of them received limiters even without fly by wire system in them

[@Mannskas]

I would believe like 11-12 but 16g is hard to believe from airframe standpoint and pilot

[@WirableCrown1]

So what's the point in getting the F15 if you already have the F16's? F15 rips, F16 does not, both get Aim9M and Aim7M.... F16 gets more 9M's

[@sorincaladera936]

Why does everyone want every new jet to power creep the old ones out? Its fine if a new vehicle isn't "the best in the game".

[@WirableCrown1]

@sorincaladera936 Su27 power creep, that's why. R27ER was balanced by only getting 2, no longer. Su27 gets more of the best IR and SARH missiles in the game on a much better platform than the mig29. If one nation gets power creep, then they all should. By doing so, you can increase the max BR and give players something to look forward to. F15a isn't worth the grind at all. It's worse than what we have already.

[@LordEmperorHyperion]

​@@WirableCrown1 Sometimes you get the bear, other days the bear gets you.

[@skyshark091]

Guys im pretty sure F15A will get an upgrade like f16, f15c will arrive on top of F15A with what missles I dont know.

[@Silverkais]

for the last clip, new skill to unlock, pre flaring, cause when aiming at you, before the launch of the missile, IR missile love to chase flares, magic 2 work that way, pretty sure R73 love flares before being yeet

[@Hawkeye6941]

I wish we got the aim 7p. This would've made up for the lack of amraam. Also why does the wing rips. In real life can withstand more then 14g.

[@takenname7348]

If they have added F/A-18A, would it be more competitive to Su-27 than F15A? Since it can also carry 6 radar missile at the same time, and insanely well low speed performance.

[@Boomkokogamez]

Well, Russia and China has R-27ER that blow every SARH out of the water. But in performance yes.

[@The74t]

The issue is they added the R-27Es, which just stomp anything else (imagine that a 90s missile against 70s missiles being better) Doesn't matter what you put em on, Sparrows won't compete with the 27Es.

[@shepardpolska]

@@The74tAIM-7M entered service in 82, it's an 80s missile.

[@DrClef_1]

@@The74t R27 is 80's missiles, just like AIm9M (Imagine reading sources)

[@casematecardinal]

@@DrClef_1 the r27er only came into service in 1990. Its actually supposed to be a contemporary of the amraam

[@yt2x_clapz900]

Hopefully you see this but I feel like they should have add the aim 7p which is the best version of the sparrow it would have had at least some upgrades and some sort of competition against the r27er 6 r27ers is just too over powered in my opinion I just can’t wait till the ammraam comes out

[@DrClef_1]

tOo OvErPoWeReD - every US main ever to anything good outside US tree

[@cammarlow3951]

@@DrClef_1 brother... dont try to call favouritism when ur name is literally 'SovietUnion'. We all know which country u main.

[@tastyactual5491]

@@cammarlow3951 Cry more. He's right. All US mains cry far too much except when they dominate (see f14 cringe era)

[@Cyktar]

@@tastyactual5491 yes and F16 flightmodel buff when mig29 got nerf

[@smudgystream5343]

​@tastyactual5491 I mean it doesn't change the fact that the r27 is the best missile in the game and nothing comes close

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

Honestly if they just give them the best sparrow variant (AIM-7P I think) and it performs close enough to the R27ER, it wouldn’t really matter. In my opinion, though I acknowledge that the ER is better than the sparrow by a considerable margin, I don’t think it’s a big issue considering that both are defeated in the same way, just as easily.

[@nelsoncheng2674]

Someone thinking that he’s good and he can cancel the effect ER has on everyone.

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

@@nelsoncheng2674 You don't need to be "good" at the game to dodge them. Just fly a couple meters off the ground like everyone else at top tier and they cant touch you, you don't need to notch or anything like that.

[@Boris_The_Turtle]

@@Slight- Notching in air rb is a lot of the time not a great idea because you basically give your six to the enemy/enemies. Just hug the deck and it wont even matter.

[@SkiddyOcean117]

The f15 could go mach completely verticle, despite it being a good contender its still nerfed

[@blacksky121_]

Honestly, this should've come in apex predators and the f16 later

[@gigan6384]

This is exactly why i was most excited for the flanker because of gaijins blatant russian favoritism lately, so im just gonna go with it since you cant beat or get rid of the russian favoritism

[@CrispyMuffin2]

and they didn't even bother hiding it on the T90 take a tank thats already artificially buffed against spalling, and then make it the only modern tank with an official spall protection upgrade, despite Nato tanks having clear documentation of having such protection as well

[@Wienerslinky]

yeah there is russian favoritism in the game but US mains just keep WHINING about everything. Best jet in the game, completely redefining the meta? i sleep. 2xr27ER on a mig29? ''wehhhh gaijin russia op give AIM120 now!''

[@purgetrapscorp]

​@@CrispyMuffin2Some NATO tanks (German/Swede) have spall liner too, but go off.

[@gigan6384]

@@Wienerslinky I get where you're coming from, but as a russian main myself, I know when something is blatantly overpowered and when it's not

[@Bobspineable]

@@gigan6384what counts as Op as when F-16C came out everyone is saying that was OP.

[@N-L3]

This can simply be solved by adding the F-15C with AIM-120's and a better radar.

[@afatfly3956]

I don't play this game much so sorry if this is dumb but why is there a gap of 10+ years from the f15 to the su27 and the grippen for example. Shouldn't it be the same planes from the same era fighting one another?

[@ferrous3262]

if we go by year f-22 should be in the game

[@nuklear7074]

Thats not how balancing a game works. Or would you like to fight a Me163 with a Mustang for example?

[@isaacmacqueen9695]

Why would i fly this over the su27? Because ive only been working on the American tree this whole time with over a hundred hours in game. Im not gonna go through another tree all the way to top tier before something else comes out

[@masondevos799]

TBH i dont give a shit about the r27er. Its the r73 that is super annoying. Dropping my throttle to 0% and dumping flares and it still hits is BS

[@desertfalcon1539]

Simple solution: pre-flare I'm a regular MiG-29 player, my R-73s get very easily caught by flares that are preemptively fired and even if I get a shot off, they go for pre-flared flares. I've also managed to flare R-73 fired from weird aspects. Then again positioning is also very important, if you get caught off guard or you stumble upon the entire enemy team, of course you're going to die

[@frwolf-dw9jg]

In my f15 I won’t get warning for the r27 specifically and I get hit even while I’m hugging the ground

[@mmmdawe]

so they added R-27ER to "balance" things because Mig-29 with only R-60M's was clapped by F-16's. But now russians have both R-73 AND still have R-27ER, so basically best SARH and best IR missiles. how the fuck does that make sense?

[@louissmith5775]

The cruel irony of it all is that if implemented correctly the Mig29a with r73s would have been fine against the F-16As had gaijin not artificially gimped their flight models for 6 months. The mig would have had better IR missiles while the F-16 would have had better radar missiles and flight performance, and even still the aim-9l wasn't completely outclassed by the r-73. But people panicked at the though of r73s and we had the 27er unleashed upon us instead. To put things into perspective on where we are right now, the AIM-7M is five years older than the base model r27, and the r27er was created as a means to counter new western active radar missiles during the 1990s. the r27er is a decade more advanced than everything else and it shows. It was tolerable back when RU was limited to r60ms and 2 r27ers max, but the addition of the flanker in particular which can carry 6 of the damn things in addition to arguably the best IR missile in the game has completely fucked balance.

[@zloy3641]

Aaah yes the Russian R-27 with a 9% success rate is better than a 7M how great

[@KINGofEPICNESS99]

should change the update name from "air superiority" to "air superiority for just the Russians"

[@ser43_OLDC]

Cope

[@waffleshardware]

Well and china... kind of like i know where gaijn and its owner tencent are from....🤔

[@coty.ott0359]

Oh no the us didn’t get the best plane for once let’s go complain in the forums 🤓

[@casematecardinal]

@@coty.ott0359 when do we get the best plane? The f14 was annoying sure but it had some pretty bad missiles overall and it was easy to kill. You could beat the brakes off one with a mig21 or crusader. It never had the indisputably best everything. The su27 gets the best missiles thats not even a contest, best amount if missiles, almost the best speed and acceleration, best turning for a standard configuration plane etc. Seriously, pull your head put of your ass

[@lucasodelta2591]

Gajin is actively giving the Russians the best kit kind regards a Sweden main​@@coty.ott0359

[@robidius]

my god, are they ever going to nerf the R27ER or give it some kinda counter or give the US the AIM120s? Like jeebus...wont be long before the only thing we see in matches are SU27, J11 and MIg 29s

[@GOD719]

never has the F15 lost a wing at high speed. Why is that put in the game?

[@MrBboy95]

Grinding F-15J, skipping US and Israeli ones, then gonna grind Brit Gripen and finally Su-27

[@Alien_GT]

How can you play this jet it’s not in the American tech tree for me

[@bluefox9436]

I'm not a russian bias player but it kinda amuses me how pissed off all the eagle fanboys are. Just wait and see - even if the plane has the inferior missile loadout for now the Aim 120s will come eventually. I also flew a couple of sorties with my F16C today and didn't really feel a big difference to before the update. So yes the Su27 is better atm, but that doesn't mean that american planes are uplayable rn.

[@crusader-j4126]

im just tired of flying 1960's / 70's aircraft with only 60 - 120 flares and having to fight a SARH that I cant dodge Im stuck on the F-4J Phantom II because I get slapped at 25km outside render range by R-27ER SPAM with no way to counter it as im stuck with AIM-7F's or AIM-7E's fighting jets that have far superior flight performance and loadouts.

[@Sabre613]

Fly low?

[@crusader-j4126]

@@Sabre613 R-27ER doesn't care, still hits directly or Proxies when it gets close and still kills. I fly around 150 - 200 meters of the ground every match till I get about mid map.

[@sk8erboy0710]

​@@crusader-j4126How about 20 metres?

[@crusader-j4126]

@@sk8erboy0710 thats a good way to crash into invisible tree hitboxes, really depends on the map as I do 50 meters on sanai

[@xAWTxREDMIST]

@@crusader-j4126definitely fly lower only time I have luck getting kills with the 27er is if they try to pull up to lock me or are flying higher than me. Fly to the side and low they won’t hit. I grinded the f16Aj a week ago with the adtw and would suicide the right bases with rockets. Not a fun way to play but less people go for them and i’m confident in dodging anything but aim9m or 73s when they turn around after the radar missles flew into the ground. Just pop flares/chaff as you fly through them.

[@gilyde6401]

I feel like a lot of the newer NATO aligned countries this patch have some sort of artificial handicap of some sort compared to their Russian counterparts? The F-15A feels like when the F-14A came to War Thunder where it's too little to late especially compared to the Su-27. A lot of the new top tier tanks in ground RB missing spall lining seems just wrong? I understand that from Gaijin's standpoint making Russian equipment is a much better commercial decision but when it comes to the overall balance of the game it once again is just Russian dominance where it should be a much more balanced landscape. I hope the next F-15 variants will change this and it's good to see the Gripen and the F-16's are holding up still. Edit Note: I know that the Russian section of the dev's based in Moscow do make the majority of the decisions and usually go by Russian documents and I know that bug reports and forum/reddit posts are being deleted due to community drama like a Russian moderator on the forums getting doxed I believe? Making it to where the main decision makers in the Russian team being most likely not as trusting of what gets sent in from the Western team so ik that specifically public NATO documents that are in the publics hands are not being taken due to the low trust. Most of this is speculation when it comes to why these documents aren't being taken in but from what I can tell it seems the most likely reason as to why outside of nationalism/favoritism.

[@litrize1]

i think thney broke missiles, they go the opposite direction of the plane for me when i have a solid lock

[@doronfrenkel7557]

Why the f 15 doesn’t have hmd?

[@mightyzuis]

Hold up so basically US players are mad that the r27er ( which as a Russian and part time US main ) is a cheese missile and so they want aim 120 which keep in mind is a fox 3 while the r27er is a fox 1. I think they should definitely wait a little bit longer considering we’ve all experienced the phoenix spam which will probably end up being the same thing but worse if they were add the 120. At least balance air rb first.

[@SeekerHead]

Yeah the game is shit I agree, but the phoenix isn’t good and never was, just a bit annoying at times. The R27ER outclasses the sparrow in every single metric, by a lot. Both kinetically and seeker. The R27ER outclasses the AIM120 kinetically in every single metric, slightly. The AIM120 has a better seeker, and is ARH, but like all ARH, needs guidance from the radar up until usually the last 10 seconds of flight roughly. That being said, the R27ER at least has trade offs with the AIM120 in advantages. The sparrow on the other hand, is out classed by the R27ER in every way possible. For me, which match up is more closely matched is pretty obvious, though neither are ideal.

[@mightyzuis]

@@SeekerHead seems legit

[@pingigaming9971]

Is it better than the f16?

[@nicholasjensen8016]

the aim120a should have been added this update. It would still be slower and have less range than the r27er but with the advantage of being able to go cold from your opponent means each side can play to some strength. Instead we got this bs where one plane has nearly every advantage making it silly to try and fly out any other top tier aircraft.

[@konstantin-vi4hy]

If they add the AIM 120A they should do it together with R77 but its too soon for that. AIM 120A alone would hold too much of an advantage. Btw 120s will have the same advantages over the R77s as the ER is having over the AIM 7s rn. The closest counterparts are the R 77 and the AIM 120A.

[@iimasheriiol222]

7:55 TLDR if you don’t want to sit for 8 minutes

[@unitedfront9717]

Insane that the su-27 is 12.3.....

[@SeekerHead]

All of them really

[@unitedfront9717]

Going up against it in the tornado strike version 💀

[@unitedfront9717]

@@SeekerHead i think they should move the mig29 with r60s up to 12.3 and go from there....

[@Wienerslinky]

@@unitedfront9717 4th gen should be atleast 12.3, then 12.7 for the next step like f16c, mig29smt/g etc and then 13.0 for the new SU27/J11. gripen if it would get ARH 13.0, otherwise 12.3 would be fine

[@Jaeger_89]

Imagine how happy I am, having just unlocked the F-14B. Back to the Mig-21MF I guess. At least it's enjoyable to fly...ish.

[@ElderWillows]

Have you tried turning your radar off once in a while xD

[@BlackAssBilly]

Long story short no it's DOA it's called skill issue I been catching dubs since monster dropped js...

[@Aidan-fw1xr]

Ah yes. No AMRAAMs, TWS, R-77s having a 68% success rate in WT despite having 6% IRL while the Aim-7s and Aim-9s do absolutely abysmal, AND not being able to go NEARLY as fast as it’s supposed to, the climb rate is also fucked on the F-15z

[@kodyzachmann]

What’s the best out of all of them?

[@madfoxlabs3436]

Eow, a 1976 F-15A with it's 70s radar and AIM7s is basically junk at this point, it may function as intended at BR11. It came outdated by the 2004 Mig-29SMT with it's late 90s Zhuk-ME radar and late 90s R-27ER. This is just Russian bias and making US planes garbage, This is a Repeat of the F-4E being stuck with Vietnam Era weapons vs the F-4EJ kai which adapted a 80s era F-16 radar. The F-15A isn't as blind as the F-4E, but facing the R-27ER combine with advance radar makes it cannon fodder. Thanks for the video.

[@jacopodefelicibus1838]

Its still a long run for me (era vi going to era vii) what should i get f 16 or f 15?

[@Unknown.141]

i used to like this game but i don’t get it, everyone hits me perfectly but when i shoot them nothing happens to them, nothing damaged. but they manage to hit me no matter what. i shot this bomber earlier over 50 times on the belly and not one hit marker came up. this game sucks.

[@abtomat8249]

American mains when they dont get the best plane each update :

[@warlikecomic2022]

Russian mains when they only get the 2 best vehicles of the patch: 😢

[@Faust_002]

@@warlikecomic2022 what is second? T-90m? its is shit

[@gabrieleturrini7809]

Will you use the italiano jet AMX?

[@T95man]

By the way I know how the snail like to do things I imagine if they added the f35 they would put in the wood mock-up of a Russian jet the checkmate witch isn’t even a flyable airplane

[@House_of_Schmidt]

Air RB is just garbage right now. 16 vs 16 is aweful

[@boogyman489]

The real problem is that the F-15 is not meant to be in a game like War Thunder. The way every match plays out is a direct disadvantage to how this airframe is meant to perform. They never built the F-15 with close range dogfights in mind (you’ll be lucky if you ever got to merge with an F-15 in real life 😂 however it’s meant to a BVR machine, but you can’t do that with a watered down radar and the same Aim-7’s that are on the Phantoms lmao. If you really think about it all the advantages lie with Russia. The SU-27 is super maneuverable, an interceptor (so it’s fast), has better missiles etc. all things that translate well in war thunder…plus there’s the whole Russian Bias thing so there’s that too.

[@Gyyghhhhjjjkk]

After couple matches it is doa pretty obvious why. The weapons and flight model. I have no idea why the wing still rip so easily in live server for some reason. Furthermore, the weapons it’s self is somehow getting weird locks not locking the enemy for some reason. Sparrows felt horrible to use. They have a shitty seeker for some reason and they get notched easily even if you didn’t lose lock. What I suggest? Just stop playing warthunder or play USSR because USA is really just not worth grinding for the new jet apart from f16 which is still no 1

[@J4ckmaestro]

So in short - Su27 is OP because Gayjin gave it too many good missiles while the f15 doesn't get shit

[@barnykirashi]

F-15 Fans: Our plane is underperforming compared to the Su-27, this is sad...... Panavia Tornado Fans:

[@Skyman100]

I guess I will go for the J11 then.

[@JayPex100]

Can Gaijin stop countries vs their own countries?

[@FGRII]

Do i research the f16 line or go for f15?

[@lorenzocilia1555]

For now, F16C is the best

[@henrygibson9268]

He says the flight model is good. I don’t have mine spaded yet but I feel like the f15 is a bus. It rolled slower than the fucking tornado. Is it cuz it’s not spaded?

[@footballboss2069]

Sounds like gaijin needs to add Aim-120 or MRAAMs so I don’t get punished for being American and wanting to play American vehicles which are clearly better irl

[@rags417]

Yawn. Leet gamer casually kills half a dozen enemy in one flight, claims that aircraft is just "okay". Seriously guys, do you even hear yourselves ?

[@Brent-qk4uc]

Maybe I’m doing something different but everytime I use the f15 it like being a god.

[@spacecrow9459]

why japan has best aam on f15 ? 40g with 90 kg...

[@piscessoedroen]

to think that this bullshit was because gaijin panicking because the playerbase was shitting themselves from r-73 on mig-29, so they didn't give it to the 29s during apex predator. then turns out mig-29 vs f-16 is remaking the mig-23m vs f-5e during red skies all over again (they were awful to say the least). the playerbase that cared about f-16 having an equal contender wanted r-73 back but instead gaijin added the 27E because they're still scared that r-73 is either too OP or too shit when all we really want is something that isn't r-60 and fixing the r-27 so it's actually better than the r-24

[@EL_CHPP0]

Cant wait to take my british phantom out in this great matchmaking system

[@Fumsiy]

is f16c better than f15 or not?

[@izlieraiden8697]

I never understand the tough of F15 being bad in any form, as someone who play most nation i find F15 to be the most dangerous plane in the game, it can out accelerate any plane and i can escape any bad situation in early game while slinging my 9M while being safe with my relatively large amount of counter measure. And if the game drag to late game i can easily dogfight 2 or 3 plane on my own. In F15 if you want a plane to die, then they will, there is not alot they can do, there is almost no situation where f15 lose in a dogfight againts other nation. If i ever wany SU27 to die i will chase it down and it will die, what is it gona do?, dogfight me?, shoot missile trough my hundreds of pre flare?

[@flink_samt_official]

I also think that in the last update the Russian missiles got worse. It's a little bit strange because right now it's so easy to flair these thinks but it's extremely hard to flair the 9m

[@TheAngriestGamer.]

the SU-27 is a turning monster irl and in DCS, its one of the only russian planes im worried about when im in my F18. The only other 2 planes i worry about are the SU-57 and the Mig31. everything else is a free kill for me imo. the F15 irl is a WHALE of a plane and it is NOT a turn-fighter or a dogfighter. Too many word of mouth morons have said things like F15 best dogfighter, undefeated blah blah blah. NO thats NOT why it has its kill record. The F15 is a missile sniper/heavy interceptor, it has a stupidly powerful and long range radar, ludicrously powerful engines, and a very high top speed. if you get into a knife/turn fight in a F15 you messed up. its got a huge thrust advantage over almost everything out there in the world aside from maybe a Mig31, SR71 or the freaking space shuttle/space-x falcon 9 heavy. so it doesn't really raidius turn, so much as it drift turns on thrust. If you get close the F15 will just NOPE out & pull range to resets the fight & lob/snipe more missiles at you. You should not beable to pull harder than 9-11g in this crappy game. the flight model is awful. UFO aircraft in WT can hit these impossible turns doing upto 17g turns in some cases and have impossibly tight turning circles in WT, and thats not the case irl. thats why the Aim-7 doesnt preform very well in this game. combined with the fact that you lose lock more than you should while the missile is in flight. the ONLY way to lose lock of a target in DCS with F15/16/18Cs and their sparrows is if the target does ALL 3 of the following, 1 Goes low to use terrain, 2 Starts beaming aka 3/9 lining aka Notching, AND starts dumping chaff. If even 1 of these things is lacking. the more modern and powerful radars on the F15/16/18 will still track and blow the shit out of the target with a sparrow. the only other way to make a sparrow miss in DCS is to make the pilot who fired it go defensive and gimbal limit their radar and lose lock that way. DCS is 10000x better than WT in every imaginable metric i dont understand why people play this crap.

[@evangalinsky2499]

Stop comparing this game to DCS And btw, DCS models things a lot more poorly than you think. Especially missiles.

[@ariq4209]

DCS isn’t a source.

[@TheAngriestGamer.]

@@evangalinsky2499 and yet they do 53 trillion times better than WT does lol.

[@evangalinsky2499]

@@TheAngriestGamer. No actually, they don't. Have you seen how the R-73 behaves in DCS? It's beyond fucked. Once it switches to its sustainer motor, it literally does a jump and then starts pulling even harder, which is beyond inaccurate to say the very least. The R-73 in WT is far more accurate to how it actually flies and behaves. But also, seekers are modeled FAR better in WT. In DCS they are rediculously basic. Just ask the Grim Reapers. They make mods galore and have stated AND shown how incredibly basic missiles in DCS really are.

[@theliteralworst9416]

The f-15 is not a whale from the wheels to the tail plains it’s a dog fighter designed to rodeo MiGs.

[@schindoneer198]

what is best, the gripen, j11 or mirage 4000?

[@SeekerHead]

I like the Gripen best but J-11 is probably better overall in 16v16

[@momopirou3107]

Mirage 4000

[@squishiergnat377]

War thunder players when the nation that was OP in air design during the cold war (US) isnt OP for balance, and the nation that was OP in ground design (USSR) isnt OP for balance

[@Nope_617]

Idk what everyone is yapping this thing is amazing for me

[@EB-Ghost6]

The 29G isn’t outdated already is it? 😭

[@Migthunder]

Pretty much is 😂

[@recon6586]

I was hoping the f15 would get an aim-7p or something

[@H-cranky]

Really no point for US players to get the F-15. Just get the F-16C

[@Kabir911]

chat, what is "DOA"???

[@SeekerHead]

Dead on arrival

[@Kabir911]

@@SeekerHead still born?