The Great June Debate feat. Flats & Freedo

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Timestamps
0:00 Opening Thoughts
10:37 PvE Monetisation For $15
54:45 Are Content Creators To Blame For OW's Bad Reputation?
1:23:28 S5 Patch Notes
2:30:10 Concluding Thoughts

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 16/06/23. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not check out SVB's stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) or other content on his main (youtube.com/@SVBOW ) or second channel the SVB-Side (www.youtube.com/@SVB-Side ) The best way to support my content is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-june-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@PainxSorrow]

These podcasts are probably the last good thing about ow

[@TheH1st0ry]

Small information: OW2 PvE was canceled in the mid of S2 (end of 2022) and only the resources where shifted to PvP at the end of 2021. So they did not know that PvE was canceled when they launched OW2 and the Watchpoint pack. Seagull also spoke about this.

[@thebole123]

Overwatch game is designed by similar philosophy as Heroes of the storm (teambased Moba with 0 ability to carry) and it will have same fate as HOTS to DOTA or LOL and OW to CSGO Valorant or Apex..

[@i.r.weasel7042]

Rock Paper Scissors isn't fun, especially if your teammates stay on paper while the enemies are all scissors.

[@AarPlays]

Completely agree. Character counters don't feel good because it doesn't feel like you're being out skilled, you're just being out charactered

[@DriplessShrimp]

100% this. So many matches spawn holding on D then the other team hard counters and my team has one tricks and we get steamrolled.

[@Smitten02]

@@DriplessShrimp worst part is that one-tricking can be really fun and people shouldn't be punished for it. I desperately want to one-trick but I know if I want to win I have to counter pick and it isn't fun.

[@wolfbeard76]

But… OW2 has less counter picking… (Cannot BELIEVE they told us that initially lmfao)

[@damianvaldez9390]

Real talk if I counter swap on tank then the other asshole swaps and swaps and then maybe dps joins in to let their tank stay zarya. Blame the game not the people who play

[@TheFushigiFan99]

Really random but Freedo's voice was made for radio and content like this. His voice is so recognizable to me and he always speaks so clearly.

[@philipjennings4664]

Totally agree

[@thefamilymealgaming]

legit when Valorant came out and he started doing valo content i knew straight away it was him

[@CommanderSammer]

So was his face! /j

[@passadelirious4947]

The wonderful talent of oratory.

[@pokvirus5705]

Maybe the true Mischief and Magic is the promised PVE mode and one tank player we lost along the way

[@hoodiejaybert8581]

fingers crossed 🤞🏽

[@akionlizard]

"Mischief & Magic" is just prop hunt

[@WhataBotch]

5v5 ruined the competitive aspect of the game. 1 shot problem, damage boost problem, supports over powered. Everything went wrong after we lost that tank.

[@infraroderik4348]

I understand why they're charging money but there is no way I can get my friends who never played overwatch or quit overwatch 4 years ago to pay 15$ for it. I'm imagining a world where only the group leader would have to own the PvE which would bring so many more people back to overwatch because they get to try it out with friends. Unfortunately thats never gonna happen...

[@seapower2109]

It should be if one person in the party owns it everybody can play it. But thats too pro consumer for Blizzard

[@waynetec13]

Yep. None of my old squad plays anymore. Hell, I don't, either, but I'd come back to play PvE with friends, but I'm not interested in $15 for 3 throwaway missions. If I won't, I KNOW my squad that quit 3 years ago won't do it. Especially with games like Diablo, and newer shooters and newer MP games. Ain't no way.

[@amishshaggy]

Bruh, you don't have to come back, play other games, it's fine! People be acting like not coming back is the worst thing ever, if you don't want to spend money on it, then more power to you! People move on from things everyday in their lives. The music they listened to changes, the KZbin videos they watch changes. The places people live changes! It happens, and it's okay

[@seapower2109]

@@amishshaggy either thats satire or sarcasm and either way wasnt funny

[@amishshaggy]

@@seapower2109 it's reality dude, people leave things everyday and move on it's not bad to stop playing a game or not being able to get people back into a game they left 4 years ago. It's completely normal

[@GetQuakedOn]

1:34:34 i love players who dont play sombra that swap to sombra to counter me on a hero i have 2500+ hours on. like yeah man you deserved it bro. you're outplaying me 🔥🔥

[@nailinthefashion]

Cry more noob just get gooder and counter your counter duh

[@Gerwhal]

And the new long range instant hack that does damage, aka Cass nade! Haha

[@johnnypt14]

Well, im sorry but, that's what overwatch is. It's always been. I quit the game several months ago because I came to terms with the fact that Overwatch's problems are the very concept of the game and not whatever changes are made to it. Hard cc, hard counters, low skill heroes, press q to win. These are the very core of the game. Expecting them to change is expecting the game to seize to exist. Or to mutate into a different game. If a lot of players come to the same realization as me rest assured Blizzard will take a hit it can never recover from

[@jeromus7799]

I can't bring myself to play doom this season good luck man

[@Doggof2p]

The new Mcree grenade is pure c@ncer. Its basically ow1 grenade stun

[@AkaruMiach]

I still remember a few months ago when people said "CCS WILL BE GONE! NO MORE ROCK/PAPER/SCISSORS COUNTERS! EVERY HERO WILL BE VIABLE IN MOST SITUATION!" And yet here we are.

[@jorrellrichardson3181]

They gave life weaver a needler but didn't give him the build up burst that makes the needler good.

[@seapower2109]

They gave it to Mei instead bc these devs are morons lol

[@HiIeric117]

Yeah but games where the needler was actually good also tended to make it a power weapon because it was THAT good. I don't think that's what anyone wants in OW.

[@MODERN-GAMING-IS-TRASH]

They should do a bleeding build up for sure, but not a damage burst like Halo 😂😂😂 that shit was borderline op.

[@FoxiestDuck]

1:37:00 When Cassidy's grenade is better at disabling heroes then Sombra's actual hack :D

[@SpartanKyuubi]

Sombra still can do it from a safer position, get to where she wants to be faster than anybody, easily escape, does not overwhelm supports on healing needs, and has one of the strongest ultimates in the DPS category.

[@FoxiestDuck]

I'm just talking the one ability and not the hero overall. Sombra overall is a strong dps(despite me getting told to switch in bronze). It's just entertaining how disruptive the grenade is compared to current sombra hack that requires precise timing/knowledge to be actually be disruptive.

[@czekskii]

1:36:30 The entire SVB rant I was just thinking this is exactly why I wanted PVE so bad. I just wanna play the heroes I like without swapping 24/7. You should have to lock your hero at the start, no swaps, maybe a draft or character bans... anything to stop me from playing stuff I don't want to play just to counter the ops counter picking me

[@KingOfNebbishes]

Yep, they took oceans of data about how people like to play a very few heroes and gave it to the execs and the execs decided to throw it all out in favor of a revenue stream, and now everyone can't understand why the game feels terrible.

[@ironman1458]

@@KingOfNebbishes I agree with everything expect that people cant understand why the game feels terrible lol, seems pretty obvious to me its been about money this whole time

[@Warrior_Meta]

I’ve seen so many people say flats is a boosted tank player, but I have a sneaking suspicion that many of them have never played ow1 let alone in a mid to higher rank

[@daygoo053]

Don't even play OW anymore but SVB forever king of this OW ish💰

[@Doggof2p]

Debatable but aight

[@damianvaldez9390]

@@Doggof2p how the hell are you going to debate this guy’s opinion 😂. Tell me your favorite color and I’ll tell you why you’re wrong🤣

[@zay2850]

i been missing samito

[@xavierharris4036]

You mean mr. Minecraft

[@Codee_]

same here

[@yamchacrater2913]

One of these missions should be free to play for everyone. Give free players an experience, and it would serve as a demo in a way.

[@thepackattack4941]

Just say ur to poor to afford 15$ lol

[@czarspriite7238]

@@thepackattack4941 It shouldnt even cost money in the first place. Why is it wrong to want whats best for myself as a consumer.

[@thepackattack4941]

@@czarspriite7238 so you just want free handouts in life?

[@yamchacrater2913]

@@thepackattack4941 my comment has nothing to do with me. I’m stating what I think they should do as a good business practice

[@zc8673]

Fr tho, especially after all this shit at least the first episode being free is just plain reasonable.

[@twoduece]

1:34:40 probably the single sentiment ive resonated with most in all of these, the experience of playing a fantastic game on your best hero to get hit with 3 counter swaps that make them absolutely unplayable is the most miserable experience in the game.

[@lone4896]

blizzard can give us a piece of stone and name it PVE, and fanboys can still argue that a piece of stone is environmental, thus its true to what they have been promised all along, nothing wrong here

[@KiraMahMan]

I see a lot of "better than nothing" thrown around on twitter when defending the "PvE" we'll be getting and it sickens me

[@wildwarturkey8356]

In hindsight over the last 12 monthes of ow2 and the lead up, I think what's affected me the most is realising that blizzard thinks of ow as a mid tier IP when I thought it was the best thing to come to gaming. Seeing something you love and have made friends through get battered bit by bit by greed and neglect just hurts. It could have been so much more to so many people, RIP overwatch the next game that gives vaguely the same feeling/gameplay loop as ow will destroy it

[@jaxsonburch-eo1vz]

You nailed it with your comment. OW had so much not just as a game but as an ip. They could have made shows or a movie, more books and comics, spin off games, etc. And the pve was supposed to bring in a whole new audience that either doesn’t play pvp or just wants to try a cool new game. They fumbled the bag hard.

[@nidhishshivashankar4885]

I wish so bad I could play a similar game that isn’t ow but has similar movement feel

[@alexthebat-uy5be]

That game isn’t coming anytime soon unfortunately

[@Farmer_Rick_Ross]

After the announcement of the pve being cancelled and put behind a paywall I dropped OW2 entirely and started playing other games with friends. I can honestly say I’m so much happier. I truly wasn’t even enjoying my victories on overwatch but now I’m back to enjoying video games

[@zoey.steelimus]

Flats describing how he still enjoys the idea of overwatch but hates playing the game is EXACTLY how I've been feeling. I definitely would have come back for pve, and I have friends who probably would have too :/

[@Pango1028]

What if the mercy pocket “weighed down” pharah when tethered adding a higher fuel use

[@Nynzy]

I agree with Flats around 38 to 40 minutes. Playing OW2 feels awful right now, maybe it is the 5v5, or maybe the balance. Anecdotally the higher rank i get the less fun the game gets. I loved the Archives stuff and replaying them with all heroes. I really want to enjoy the game, and Pve was that hope~

[@crustynut7193]

I love how freedos skin turns whiter the longer this video goes on

[@torokil7065]

Feeling empty without Samito

[@BridgyP]

He expressed ignorant views to the same drama that SVB came and called out. His views are incompatible with SVB and suspect you'll never see "the avengers" fully together on this podcast again

[@Jaymizuband]

@@BridgyPSVB literally mentions and speaks for him before this whole thing even starts, if Sam never appears again its cause hes a CEO now.

[@nashovoscallando1098]

​@@BridgyPnever cook again

[@SnakeSkinz]

​@@BridgyPLmao calling someone while being ignorant is wild

[@aalltt892]

@@BridgyP They hated you because you spoke the truth lmao "h-he's just busy guys!" The nickmercs dickriding 100% burned any bridge Samito had back on the show, he just doesn't care to ever be back on again and traded his old smaller sized friends to try for some new larger clout

[@MsElViktor]

From someone who playes League, i have to say that i really enjoyed the quest watch visual novel (since League does this in the last couple of.years). And that Flats monologue in the end, fucking nailed it, what a legend. Svb and Freedo were so dissapointed about the questwatch that they didnt even mentioned whats to come (in the next month) and the 4v1 mode. I get why they are frustrated with those things, been an high elo content creator its hard and it kinda make them look less about the casual experience, cuz its not from them. Thinking a little now, I would like to see an group up with hehe casual content creators

[@Jaymizuband]

37:05 Loved Flats’lil essay here. Articulated a good point I don’t think many considered at all with it came to developing Overwatch moving on.

[@HeavilyArmed1]

17:21 Thank goodness Flats finally said it because it seems most OW creators make comparisons to Valorant skins without knowing how they work. If I purchase a $19 Overwatch skin for Junkrat, that it. I can't use that Junkrat skin whilst playing Widowmaker. If I purchase a $19 Valorant skin, not only can I use that Knife/Weapon skin on any agent I play, I get 2-3 Color variants of that same skin to switch between freely.

[@endless_del]

are there $19 valorant skins? i don't play or really watch content on it (except the occasional time a variety streamer i watch plays it) so the only thing ive ever heard about is the 100+ dollar stuff.

[@InkLink]

@@endless_del yes, there are, I believe it ranges all the way from 10$ to "the sky is the limit"

[@HeavilyArmed1]

​@@endless_del The closest example would be $17 Premium skins. These almost always come with 2-3 Color Varients and last-kill animations. They are part of a larger bundle and can always be purchased individually. $8 Skins are also a thing, look just as good, but do not have as many bells and whistles. $100 skins in Valorant do not exist. $100 Skin Bundles do. These bundles are equivalent to Mythic skins in OW featuring more last-kill animations than OW launched new heroes (search "RADIANT ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM showcase" for example), multiple weapon keychains, profile Icons and sprays. Individually they cost $28 which is steep for most and justified for others considering what you get. Since Valorant launch 3 years ago, only been 2 such bundles have released.

[@johnnypt14]

There's also the rarity element (I don't know if valorant has this) that contributes to insane prices in counter strike and team fortress. Yeah "there are hundred dollar hats and knifes" but unboxing one of those is exceedingly rare so it's only expensive cause there is demand and difficulty in acquiring one. It's way more justified than these overwatch prices where you pay for shit you wont get to look at cause you'll be picking healer all the time, since it's the one role no one picks. Or you'll be too busy countering x with z and your fave character stays in the bench

[@endless_del]

thanks for all the info in the replies! what i'm gathering is the more apt comparison would be fortnite skin bundles. similarly priced, and they all come with accessories (gliders, axes, etc) that are designed for that character skin, but can be used on others. just like the weapon charms and souvenirs for overwatch. but still not entirely the same because i can play as spider-man 24/7 in fortnite if i want to, but i can only use zeus while playing JQ so if she sucks or i don't play her, it's useless. i personally think the shop prices in OW are fair and i personally would make a loved one take away my credit card if i spent over 60$ on a single microtransaction in ANY game, but i don't judge others for it. i just personally could never find justification for spending that much on a cosmetic bundle.

[@IssaUserName]

I've been saying solo que is all that matters because I want to see a shift in the culture towards people not blaming randoms and communicating with them. Imo, a good player should be able to formulate plans and communicate with a random player. Not just there friends and not just play to say "fuck the random they ruined the game REEEEE".

[@mito._]

I kind of feel like the story we needed for Overwatch 2 was just a paraphrasing of real insider and developer stories. Because for the lack of story content we are getting after 7 years, it definitely feels like we're in the middle of the season arc when it comes to Blizzard and Bobby.

[@CarlosCruz-bu1kd]

Season 6 is probably going to be fun. I’m down to try season 6 and then head out with flats lol.

[@tropicata]

SVB nailed the reason tank feels so miserable. Not only is it hard counters, but it's the fact the game actively punishes you for playing well and expressing yourself - because the better you perform the more you become a magnet for every bullshit "i win" ability from the opposing team. You're encouraged to sit afk behind cover all match and keep track of 50 cooldowns while everybody else gets to have fun, and if you dare make a SINGLE aggressive play, you better fucking hope your support has your back otherwise you go from 600hp to 0 in a microsecond. It's such a horrifically bad dynamic. Tank went from my favorite role to one of the most demoralizing things I've ever felt in a multiplayer game

[@therealdude707]

Exactly. Whenever I played tank I felt like I only impacted the game when I mess up. But on DPS or Support I feel like I have impact on the game.

[@Donler]

Chillin in comments representing all the ppl that don't play OW anymore, but still wanna support SVB.

[@jplayzow]

I finally had to stop a week ago it's like the whole world has changed for the better

[@MetalMilitia83]

All this debate, meanwhile from software releases elden ring for 60 dollars with no micro transactions. Free updates, a true pvp and pve mode with coop and engaging gameplay. Overwatch relies on milking cash from consumers. Loot boxes in a already 60 dollar game, then a battle pass system for the same exact game but calling it 2. Then charging money for a half baked mode for a ridiculous price. Zelda isn’t riddled with micro transactions, it’s just a really good game. Don’t settle for this garbage

[@BridgyP]

You can't compare the best game of the console generation this far to a F2P macrotransaction fest. It's disrespectful to actually good gaming developers and publishers

[@MetalMilitia83]

@@BridgyP just did

[@davidhvacddc]

After 5 years and 12k comp hours... I'm Happy to not play for the last 2 weeks... found a game that's Fun and not just a let down. Flats you look SO happy playing D4. I'm happy playing SF6. Maybe after all the Lies and Pain... it's time to say good bye Ex. Hello new fun exciting not lying Gf. Or ummm game. Lol

[@AarPlays]

Flats straightforwardness always brings me back to anything he's on

[@Velkin999]

It was heavily implied by many sources that the watchpoint pack would give access to pve.

[@MetalMilitia83]

Season 5 issues, Pve cancelation and paid story missions have pushed be to delete the game for the first time since 2016. I grinded to top 500 and now I can’t justify playing anymore. I’ve put so much time into this game and I feel betrayed

[@aboveSubparBallAnalysis]

It’s time they don’t care about vets and our lives and family deserve better so we must turn our backs and good faith in this game forever Fuck you for ruining my life Overwatch

[@adamjames8419]

Congratulations on kicking the addiction :)

[@amishshaggy]

Nice! Have fun watching TV shows that are also addicting, playing other games and putting just as many hours into them as well. Listening to music and watching KZbin videos that will sometimes bring you down a rabbit hole that are also addicting.

[@MetalMilitia83]

@@amishshaggy bait

[@FlipsMG]

I'm gonna cry, no Samito... the Avengers have been defeated

[@thatgayguy2824]

Kid's disgusting. Not worth crying over, lil bro

[@vincentcovenant5752]

@@thatgayguy2824Sorry sam hurt your feelings buddy

[@thatgayguy2824]

@@vincentcovenant5752 eyes*

[@raysftw]

Great video. Watched the whole thing while unlocking all the mommy Lilith statues in Diablo IV, so thanks for that. lol

[@K3nji_S]

People spend 100 dollars on a skin in Val?

[@b23beatz]

Exactly

[@Jeronimoeser]

All I wanted out of PvE was an adaptation of Starcraft 2 co-op where it starts off with a small core cast of heroes to play and then you can pay 5/10/15 bucks to unlock newer ones for the mode with not so much a talent tree but more of a sequence of unlocking passives and then some kind of basic alterations for some or even all skills (i.e. Ramattra's nano field is around him/heals allies/is normal but has bigger aoe, Hanzo's sonar arrow slows in an area, you get the idea). Instead, I get a mode of play I am so uninterested in that I couldn't even guarantee that I would watch VoDs of streamers I like playing it. Feels bad, man.

[@Swimsalot123MC]

Damn that sounds awesome and a lot less complicated to develop, too bad you're not working at blizz😢

[@pandatooyou3709]

SVB is ridiculously professional moderator/host, I’m struggling to think of a better one (for game related discussion pods)

[@willanrac]

I feel like if they had just put the story missions by them selves for like 8 dollars and still give the pack for 15 we wouldn't really have a problem with it. its just the fact we are only given one option. There would be a lot less grumbling if we got the illusion of choice, its still a shitty option but it would feel for fair for the pocket book.

[@ironman1458]

after all the letdown with how they handled pve it honestly shouldve just been seasonal and included in the battle pass starting in season 1 to actually give something to buy in the battlepass other than a hero you probably need to counter pick something because they lied and counter picks are somehow even worse now

[@solarscreams2447]

Included with the battle pass would've been a big W for them

[@greensky5328]

They should make a game mode where you can't swap characters once you've locked in just to see how it'd go. Reworking the tank passive to slightly favor survivability would also be interesting though I think a plethora of small character specific buffs would be the healthiest way to solve Flats problem of tanks feeling underpowered.

[@jk5385]

change the tank passive to reduce all cc effects and durations by 50% or something, tweak this number. I think that would solve a lot of issues with tank feeling bad.

[@Bluemansonic]

Most people are still upset that they thought it was gonna be free even though we've been telling them for years

[@aqueleRu]

Really sad not having Sam on the podcast.

[@stormRed]

Lifeweaver should TOTALLY get Mei or Cass' CC! It would make sense thematically too since they could be tangled in roots and it fits his sorta non-violent vibe.

[@yilmazzzz9044]

you should get bogur on one of these great debates, he wasnt there with the content creators hyping ow2 up. his opinion would resonate more with the regular people cuz of no nda's

[@lilsouixboy]

At this point, I think most casual players like myself ain’t playing the “PvE” (campaign mode) until it’s free, on game-pass, or it has a reasonable price for the whole thing. If they had a price tag of $20-30 but you get all the PvE content forever I’d buy it, but not this way; I can’t support it. Here’s hoping I get to play it someday 🍺

[@zAznInVaznz]

"widow is the mercy of dps" SO TRUE

[@gizmo2445]

Welcome to the Destiny seasonal model, you’re gonna hate it.

[@bennettnez4711]

It feels good to be welcomed. Also, thank you. I really needed a good laugh today. That was great.😂

[@Cyrax559]

I never understood the pain that tank players went through until I myself started playing tank and MAN

[@wolfbeard76]

Idk if anyone else has this issue, but you can’t play the demon lord mode with friends at the moment.. you just sit forever in a queue. Only solo queuing for it seems to work :(

[@Jugokazooie]

Me. I don’t play anymore. I really do enjoy the idea and the universe of characters and I just remember playing it and that is good with me.

[@johnnypt14]

2:00:50 you should see Team Fortress 2 snipers right now. Facing a player that has played sniper since 2007 is one of the most insane things you can experience in a multiplayer game. It's like facing the all consuming void

[@boltywolty123]

90% of my friends already quit this game. The couple who remain won’t be touching the PVE. Player base is dying.. it’s the end for overwatch now.

[@crom5906]

2:03:54 the way I see it is that characters who only require one skill are not necessarily easier than characters who require multiple. It depends on the skill. But when you have a character who takes multiple different skills, prime example being ball, you can supplement one for the other. If you have very good tech skill you can make up for garbage aim skills. Also works vice versa. Widow is 90% aim, but what that means is than you can't supplement aim with other skills. Even if your positioning is godlike, if you can't click heads you're bad at the hero.

[@luistown9601]

I think (and maybe its Copium) that the reason why they specifically called PvE permanent access in those prices is because it will be probably free for all but you can only play it in the season (maybe its in the free battle pass like the heroes) but if thats the case their marketing is fucking trash

[@johnmetzakis2910]

i forsee the roster will end up with half having CC and half having the ability to remove CC

[@micahfoster7717]

The robot in the thumbnail is the closest thing to PVE we’ve gotten yet 😭

[@bennettnez4711]

More than Blizzard even gave us, fuck..

[@8R3ND0clips]

Lifeweaver damage should decrease healing taken by 25% for 2 seconds

[@hy3na739]

Yeah... Tank feels miserable... Discord orb, Cass stun, Mei slow, the constant counterswapping...

[@mikestakeon]

While it's somewhat understandable thinking about it as a content creator whose livelihood depends on the content, it's disappointing to hear that both Flats and Freeedo are just completely content with buying the story missions, even after ranting about how scummy and wrong Blizzard's handling of this is. If their behaviour is so wrong, why support it? Giving them money for this crap is exactly what they want. It doesn't deserve to be rewarded.

[@krapuulx]

I used to have 8 friends playing OW with me daily. Couldn't team up for ranked many times due to differences. Now team queue is here, but my friends are gone. I fear many of the good incoming changes are way over due, people already left..

[@Zyborgg]

The funny thing is every problem can be solved with a pick and ban system. Oh you wanna play winston but not deal with reaper? Ban him. You'll still have to deal with, torb, brig and so on. You wanna get out of spawn on junkertown? Ban widow. You'll still have to deal with ashe. So the devs gigabuffed cassidy? Ban him. Only problem is there's gonna be more than one hero your team wants to ban. But at least you wont have to play vs widow every game on junkertown. If everyone on your team picks different bans you're still gonna get her banned at least 20% of the time. This would also somewhat solve the problem that you don't have to nerf heroes to the ground.

[@vampirelogan]

So i have been wanting Team Queue since the beginning but without a guild system with team based SR, named teams and/or some kind of points and rewards to your guild to support it, it is destined to fail.

[@ZhongjieDong]

The reason why games are so expensive to develop these days is exactly this, revisions, scrapping work already done, direction changes etc. It's weak/absent leadership, if you had one or two people with a strong vision at the top given free reign, better games that cost less would be produced.

[@Bluemansonic]

41:05 that's me, i do Dailies, Weeklies then i just do mostly Custom Games like Endless Dungeon

[@solarscreams2447]

Endless dungeon pog

[@FoxiestDuck]

It sucks, because a $15 3 mission pack is basically $30 in Australia. That's 1/4ish of diablo 4 day 1 price. for maybe 2-3hours of gameplay.

[@amishshaggy]

Then play Diablo, no one is forcing you to buy the missions bruh

[@FoxiestDuck]

Such a shallow reply. Already am playing. Just showing the price point is so unrealistic compared to other media they make for basically throw away content for them now

[@amishshaggy]

@@FoxiestDuck nice! Honestly, I've never played Diablo but ive heard it's really good from like literally everyone I mean, I don't think this content is "throw away content" this was shit they spent 4 years making for it not to turn out the way they wanted it to. If that means it's throw away then I disagree. I don't really think $15 for 3 missions and other stuff is that crazy either, especially if the missions are pretty long or hard to complete. I've paid way more money for 1 1/2 hours of entertainment going to a movie theater so I guess I just don't see this as a lot of money

[@illik4018]

@Freedo, You call blizzard out.... these shit changes are ruining the game and you just accept it. So Blizzard is like " o they will get over it and still hand fists of money".

[@bennettnez4711]

Did anybody else notice the tiny line on the roadmap for season 6 that says "adding player progression system"? There were no other details, im curious if anybody has any idea what that is. It would be too little too late, but lack of progression was one of the things I personally disliked the most moving from 1-2

[@353darkesthour]

My biggest problem with the pve paywall is that pve was designed inherently for players who don’t like pvp but love the characters, like my wife. You should not have to buy 1000 coins or the battlepass in order to play the pve when my wife is not going to play remotely enough to complete the battlepass. You want 5$ for 1.5 hours of content? Sure, let me pay 5$ for it then.

[@stillarobyn]

The original vision of the PvE was going to be a full price game (not sure if numbers were ever released). There was always going to be a paywall of sorts. Now we're getting a watered down version, so that needs to be reflected in the cost, but it was never going to be free, even if you already were established in the PvP. I do agree that the first episode or mission or whatever should be free. The bundling issue in the shop is continuing to be a problem for OW2. Just let people buy the one thing they want!

[@bittersweetblueberry3517]

I can sympathise with the Devs not getting enough time or resources for the PVE they envisioned. But at the end of the day the core problem was that Blizzard overscopped to truely ridiculous degree. And PVE's cancellation probably could have been avoided if the Devs were more realistic with their goals In the announcement of PVE's cancellation one of the Devs said it was too difficult to make 50+ talents for every hero in the game. But giving each hero 50+ talents was their decision. They could have chosen to have a lot fewer talents per hero. Even a tenth of that could have lead to a somewhat satisfying progression system.

[@mossup-]

They did not Over Scope, its all BS, they are a multi billion $$ company who could have easily afforded a small team to work on either PvE or PvP, so they could have easily dont it. even if they released it in an early state but they should have been much further along by now, so there excuse was not strictly 100% fact.

[@solarscreams2447]

They ARE still releasing it in an early state by spacing it out every few months. Their incompetence is incomprehensible

[@LokixRiddle]

I queue up for my all roles for dailies. Always get tank, always hate it. I used to love tank it was my favorite role in the game. Now I fucking hate it.

[@radicalrobynette7138]

It's honestly just so hard to trust anything the OW team promises now. Especially since they announced the hero mastery mode for season 6 and then *one week* later said it's gonna be delayed to mid season 6... I don't think I've ever seen a delay be announced so soon after an initial announcement. Ever. Please correct me if I'm wrong lol. And like I know that a promise from any dev team for any game has a chance to never happen. But it has happened so often with Overwatch that I just literally am not gonna trust any planned content announcement anymore. I'm just gonna play the game and if shit gets released cool. Also just wanted to say that I know the devs don't want this to happen constantly and it's likely not their fault. Shit happens + higher ups meddling.

[@bennettnez4711]

I was so confused when I saw it was delayed. I was convinced I was reading the article wrong. Absolutely ridiculous that it happened that fast and it definitely doesn't make me trust them anymore. Been playing since 2016, I still want to love the game, but they make it harder almost every day.

[@radicalrobynette7138]

@@bennettnez4711 I've been playing since 2016 as well. And it was so confusing... At this point they shouldn't announce anything anymore lol.

[@alfred9805]

38:28 correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I remember team 4 was more or less insulated by the office issues at blizzard, Jesse Mcree and co were working on Diablo 4 at the time. At the time I had the impression that Jeff did a good job at protecting his team

[@c_bons]

Why they haven’t implemented Home Screen customization (wallpaper and music), weapon skins, cooler profile customization, things like that is beyond me… all of which can be earned by completing difficult tasks similar to COD will keep players engaged and playing your game. Also, they need to give a much much bigger system of rewards for competitive players.

[@InkLink]

No Samito hurts to see

[@shadowkras]

2:25:00 That only shows that antinade (100% healing cancelled) and discord (+25% damage taken) are way too strong, specially when both on the same team. There is really nothing on any other support that can have the same impact as those two abilities.

[@undyne6280]

9:40 Somehow. My bf is still hopeful, yet he’s been here since Beta of OW1. I think it’s more long term denial over his favorite game tho :(

[@yourchannel1186]

gotta stop brining flats on ive never seen anyone think they were the main character more in my life

[@SpartanKyuubi]

Been saying the same for a long time. He thinks the game is about him and what he wants 😂

[@Dfm25387]

5v5 is the problem I feel like if they would have just balanced 6v6 the game would be way better

[@KKJazz]

Freedo going off about how Starwatch is PvE was amazing 😂

[@Shmop_]

Only way they can fix this is issue I think is by doing what mobas, we all select a character, we cannot see what the enemy is picking, we cannot switch until either after the round ended or not switch at all, but at that point, it isn’t overwatch, doing so will require buffs and nerfs to characters though, otherwise I don’t know where they can go to balance overpowered dps or tanks seasons

[@reddragooner]

the zarya example is a good example for why people don't understand how to play against good snipers and why they need to shut up when it comes to balancing them

[@andrewkozlowski4839]

Blizzard becoming the new EA

[@claudiuspulcher2440]

Freedo's statement about 'investing' is so weird. unless you are a stockholder, you were not "investing" by buying silly skins hoping the game would get better. The word for that is "sucker." And I think that's part of why he feels so betrayed...

[@onetruegamer]

No samito 😥

[@AffectiousUwU]

Think about this right if your going to buy the bp anyways what is 5$ really for 3 missions

[@DjNaste]

Think about this right: if you weren't going to buy the battle pass anyways, the Story Missions are $15

[@b23beatz]

Exactly

[@b23beatz]

​​@@DjNasteou still get 1000 currency which you can use at any point in the future if 15$ is a lot to you you should probably sell your 500+$ (minimum) PC

[@johnnypt14]

​@@b23beatz weird comparison. A pc is a great long term investment and incredible value. "If you think a dog is a lot of work you should get rid of your kid"

[@zc8673]

I agree with all the points made about counterpicking vs hero's fantasy. I'm curious though, how could we possibly fix this? The only solution I see would be to make all heroes more homogeneous for less counterpick potential, which destroys the hero's fantasy. Ironically, people complained about the homogenization of both Mei and Cassidy at the beginning of OW2 because they both lost unique parts of their kit for pure damage. But now that their unique traits have returned in some form, people are complaining about the lack of damage and additional CC. I just think its impossible to find a state of balance for the game where either counterpicking isn't an issue to some degree, or OW becomes knockoff Valorant. Particularly when it comes to the tank role, as there's only one in 5v5. On the point of Cass nade, it's crazy to me that it cancels movement abilities like rein charge or JQ ult after they've been cast. Imo it should prevent you from casting movement abilities, but only slow you if you've already cast it.

[@davidrich27]

Yeah, if they removed the interrupt and made the range closer to old flashbang, I don’t think the ability would be that bad. The idea should be just to replace OW1 with a softer version of the flashbang (Idc what Freedo says, soft and hard CC are real concepts, not sure what his whole “made up” rant was about)

[@fuscello]

First of all remove the 25% ultimate charge you keep for switching, then do something about all the cc the game has that work fine on everyone except tanks. Hack should last less, brig stun should last less, these 2 slow effects that were added should be less effective against tanks, discord should increase less damage, nade should last less. If you do all of this maybe you will get the tank fanbase back into the game Oh and suzu should definitely not cleanse status effects and cc like shatter or jq ult (you can nerf them accordingly obviously)

[@burni988]

1:26:35 don't really understand this take. I'm pretty sure having actually good balance that allows for people to have more freedom in their picks would be better and more fun than artificially forcing different things to be hard meta every 2 weeks. That also doesn't sound like a good idea for the sake of competitive integrity when it comes to the matchmaker as if everyone is basically forced to play one hero cause of their new strength, when they inevitably fall off and another hero takes their place, everyone's ranks are gonna be incorrect for the new meta. If you have more stable metas where more things are viable at once, then you won't have that issue so much as people won't be forced to pick up completely different heroes.

[@johnperez1723]

The real reason solo que is regarded as the only way to climb is because people don't have friends and are used to isolating themselves now more then ever. So in ranked there is no discussion or teamwork, just 5 separate game's with 5 players on the team.

[@mc_3232]

I had a game of push that is a great example of why counterswaping is just miserable. I was playing sojourn and i was rolling the lobby. After i won 2 fights, they swapped pharahmercy, and i got rolled so i go echo i kill the pharahmercy and the next fight they're on ashe mercy to counter me. In what world is that supposed to be fun?

[@praisedsquishy]

They didn't smoke enough, Mei should apply hinder (I'd prefer for her changes to be reverted)

[@HonorableZealot]

I have played 5 games of Overwatch since the news of the pve cancellation. Wonder what the concurrent player numbers are

[@Leo-ry3kx]

Freedo’s monetization rant is so on point with all of my thoughts it really feels like he is speaking to my soul. If there are any Blizzard apologists and PvE cope artists left, I’d like to see them address ANYTHING in the arguments he presented

[@vincentcovenant5752]

The only thing the copes say is “just leave then don’t play lol” they love this shit game so much they’ll defend it for free

[@reddragooner]

the falloff on the range is 10 extra meters, 20% increase

[@beermarket9971]

Regarding balance, i think tanks should have "tenacity" like in LoL where CC would affect them less.

[@RaviPillalamarri]

The reason this monetization rankles is that it's not clear whether they deserve the money they're asking for. We know they _want_ as much money as possible, as fast as possible. People who share those values are sympathetic and don't blame Blizzard for acting this way. It's what corporations are. The rest of us don't care that they want money, and may not have the money to spend.

[@hobonolen]

been saying since OW1 they need to have character selection PRE MATCH …. If everyone picks 2 heroes in their role There would be 2 tanks to choose from , 8 damage players to choose from and 8 support to choose throughout the match . It would make it a lot more skill based rather than which character beats which, which would still exist A great example of this working , my friend will mop a round as rein and when the enemy switches to counter him he switches to ball and we lose… if we just had you FORCED onto roles it would also show a clear win percentage for players and heroes vs beating good players with counters