The Great May Debate feat. Bogur, Yeatle & Custa

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Timestamps
0:00 Opening Thoughts
7:10 Most Recent Patch
22:25 Healing In Overwatch: Too Much? Or Just Right?
35:00 Venture & DPS Passive Changes
53:00 Upcoming Tank Buffs
1:41:06 Wide/Narrow Matchmaking
1:52:20 Smurfs & Cheaters
2:10:07 Mirrorwatch
2:16:00 Clash
2:28:05 Concluding Thoughts

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 3rd May 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not let SVB know on his stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-may-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@TankMAIN877]

Tank players have been fucked over for years and made dps players too strong to the point where no one has wanted to play tanks. Tanking in this game feels like garbage all because dps have been GIGA buffed its tanks turn now.

[@SchmelvinMoyville]

@@TankMAIN877 wah!

[@MrTruth2410]

at this point i wonder if its will do anything if devs remove ult charge save, it might be not enough. So what if after each swap hero ult cost increased by ~10% as permanent debuff (from 100%>110%>120% and etc) so it would be risky to spam it after few swaps

[@ryzer1626]

This podcast was embarrassing u were so rude to ur viewers and maybe people are complaining for a reason all u need to do is bring back ow1 and nerf aoe healing and the game will be good again but I guess I’m just a hater and a little bitch because I have my own opinion

[@mckookie2967]

The Great Shill Conversation

[@dstorms]

The great "we're not shills we promise" debate

[@CJ-jk9mp]

hehe

[@inpoverty4128]

It's even funnier because they think that by being self aware and mocking us for calling them shills beforehand, they aren't actually shilling. Like that makes the point moot in some way. Yeatle and Bogur were somewhat level headed, but Custa (who is LITERALLY on Blizzards payroll) and SVB are just far gone.

[@christopher7692]

@@inpoverty4128 i haven't seen much of custa but I've seen svb. yeatle, and bouger be hyper critical of overwatch I'm not sure how they are shills

[@cnnr_]

I didn't read the title and for a few seconds thought we were debating Mei for 2 and a half hours

[@Woopinah]

Silly 😛

[@sierranex]

Same 😅

[@GenericName9835]

What was your thought? “Shit, I didn’t even think Mei was an issue?” 😂

[@braveryandpasion9510]

You didnt read the title, yet you got confused what the topic of the debate was….. because of the title. -sigh- I already notified the authorities

[@cnnr_]

@@braveryandpasion9510 No, I clicked on the video (because of the thumbnail) in my recommended and heard through my headphones "Welcome to the Group Up Podcast, we're here for the great Mei debate" and checked my phone and then saw it said "May Debate" not "Mei Debate". Stop being annoying.

[@DriplessShrimp]

Thanks for adding Custa to the debate so we can get Blizzards talking points.

[@mauriceleromain9487]

😂

[@julicomo9815]

Savage

[@Geturgutsoffme]

If you think custa is a shill, you definitely don't watch him. He dogs on Blizzard all the time, but he's generally a positive guy that just doesn't care to complain about all the nonsense everyone already complains about constantly. Something flats should take note of.

[@bambampewpew32]

Lmfao he actually feels so fake and like such a prick it's insane

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@bambampewpew32 hes not fake hes a Blizzard employee so adding him to a debate is pointless. SVB doesnt have debates anymore though

[@ranjnijan3446]

Sam getting the villain treatment is nothing new. Dude has been very consistent on how right his takes have been ever since Ow1 even if it meant going against the entire short sighted community. This whole situation is just gonna be one of the many correct takes he has.

[@P_Bad]

Its a 20v1 for Sam, im waiting on his diss track any day now

[@tbagger5211]

I used to like these podcast but svb sounds like a skinny little beatch lately . He tries to sound tough and weighs a 100 lbs soaking wet

[@jacobbaartz7710]

What, like the support passive. Or that shield bash was the biggest problem with brig. Or that whipshot was the biggest problem with brig. Don't get me wrong, I like and watch samito, and I believe that samito truly does love overwatch. But he is just as biased as the rest of us. Blizzard's shills are no more shills than Sam is to the waves of 6v6 enjoyers and hanzo/junkrat/roadhog 'identity preservers'. My problem with all this is that all these 'grifter' and 'shill' accusations and mis/characterisations don't address anyone's points. I'd implore all KZbinrs to restrict their comment sections to exclusively addressing arguments, instead of character assassinations and vague insults. But really, we all care more about gaming the algorithm and clickthrough than a concrete discussion. Samito, freedo, group up and custa all included.

[@BeefyKeeef]

Samito must be sneezing so hard during the stream of this podcast.

[@jeffstone7471]

lol

[@hexia6760]

Does Yeatle look like James Franco, or does James Franco look like Yeatle?

[@Buhukowskii]

Yes

[@gc6240]

A little like a young Pedro Pascal too

[@bruniverso2147]

Does Yeatle look like him because he is James Franco, or does James Franco look like him because he is Yeatle?

[@umbralowl]

Ha, good one. I looked at Yeatles face after seeing your comment and totally see James Franco

[@donovan4222]

Look at little goblin jr….ya goona cry?

[@eagerinspirit]

Why does everyone on this podcast assume that everyone else's opinions and thoughts if they're negative aren't genuine, but theirs are because theyre positive? Very weird and condescending. I think people are allowed to have negative takes and share them. You shouldn't have to pretend for the community.

[@P_Bad]

Pssst, its because its their job.. 🤫

[@dkon1434]

I also dislike SVB's take of "if you're going to be negative, play a new game". His little rant was actually pretty pathetic. People have been invested in this game because it IS good, but the community has went through lies, blizzard mismanagement, a predatory monetization system, and format change that left some glaring holes in the gameplay, etc. People like blizzard games because they're good, but people are also sick of being misled. A content creator ranting about people being negative after all this is actual sad because SVB should know best of where this is coming from. And also, I do get that people should have constructive criticism, but it doesn't always have to be constructive. It's not our job to make the game, it's our job to play it.

[@eagerinspirit]

@@dkon1434 And they're being a bit hypocritical too. They're very obviously referencing Samito for example when they refer to people that make lots of content that focuses on criticizing the game and Blizzard, and they clearly take issue with the fact that he calls them shills (and frames their takes as disingenuous) for having a positive outlook on the game. Then they do that EXACT same thing by saying that he's pumping out negative takes for the money, and then go even further and lie about him never explaining his positions.. When it could just be that he has genuine gripes with the game? Why try and shift the narrative like that instead of just fleshing out both sides? Just very weird all around. Kind of just an echo chamber this episode.

[@dkon1434]

@@eagerinspirit I don't like how people default in calling them shills whenever they say something positive about the game, but sometimes I do wonder. Not so much with this cast (besides custa who literally works for them), but Freedo from YourOverwatch is suspicious at best. I remember when OW officially released a statement that they were cancelling PVE, and Freedo IMMEDIATELY went into damage control saying its actually a GOOD thing because now that they can work on PVP. The point was not that PVE was cancelled, but that the entire justification for OW2 was PVE, so we all found out we've been misled for a long time and Freedo immediately defending blizzard when they did something I believe was indefensible. It was kind of an opening of the curtain moment as I always found Freedo is always weirdly optimistic even with bad news and now I think I know why. That's just an example, but I do think there can be something said about content creators licking some blizz boots sometimes, whether or not they are financially connected with bliz. Custa works for blizz, so he HAS to defend them. Yeatle just kind of agrees with everyone and Bogur doesn't really critical engage with the game and has some awful takes to boot, so all in all a weak lineup this time.

[@philistine3260]

@@dkon1434 no idea what's in freedo's head. But, personally, I was happy to hear they're dropping PvE. I never cared about it at all. It was always a PvP game for me and that's all I ever wanted out of it. So, them finally dropping PvE and fully focusing on PvP was a big win in my books. Obviously, I've never said anything, I didn't want my 10000 downvotes from the raging masses. But I have a feeling there's a very large, mostly silent (on this issue), part of the community who think the same as I do and maybe Freedo is one of them.

[@PunchM3]

If you are going to call something a debate at least have both sides on it instead of one side just shit talking the other.

[@KryptoBeatz]

That's all this trash podcast is used for 🥱

[@PainxSorrow]

@@KryptoBeatzthis is what liberals are like irl

[@KayD__o]

I challange SVB to do a podcast without going on a rant about people on social media.

[@DriplessShrimp]

Or eating during the pod

[@MofoMan2000]

You've got quite an echo chamber going on here. It's not that you guys are shilling, I don't think you are. You just all agree that "patches good, stop complaining." How is this a "great debate" when everyone agrees?

[@Ajoi14]

I think Samito is right though. Things will stay the same. Now it's the time for Tank to stomp everyone else. Last two seasons, it was the DPS. It's an infinite cycle.

[@NightBlade117]

At the expense of good solid balance, sure. In the long run, patches like this are a disservice to the game and the players playing as a whole. But time will tell, we will see

[@mrpetebojangles21]

Be careful of people who say things like “Only I speak the truth, everyone else is lying etc etc”. Dudes a rage-baiting engagement farmer.

[@Wildkoala1]

@@mrpetebojangles21 that’s all you got? He’s right about 6v6 and and the shit state of OW2, cry more

[@dr.brightside113]

@@mrpetebojangles21 he does rage a lot... but from all the facts and evidence, he is definitely right. You gotta separate the facts from the person saying it...

[@Chazza-01]

@@dr.brightside113 He gets angry when people tell him he is wrong but do not give a genuine argument other than "rose tinted glasses". If people actually gave substance to their argument he accepts it and will explain why they are wrong if they are.

[@shaunsimmons]

A large portion of this podcast was a sneak diss to samito 😂

[@aidenmontgomery9205]

even tho he’s won every debate. they hate that he’s right

[@shaunsimmons]

@@aidenmontgomery9205 absolutely Aiden. He’s been right about everything

[@ROBAKABIGPAPA]

Samito need to drop a diss track.

[@weaver4prez900]

@@aidenmontgomery9205 just because he gives his big eyes to the camera and speaks clearly doesn't mean he's right. Guy adores his own voice

[@dstorms]

@@weaver4prez900 what is he wrong about, then?

[@Theclooch]

Dear Svb, how many dislikes and comments referencing samito do you have to receive before you realize you and your buddys are wrong about 6v6?

[@joshuabarnes1486]

I understand the point that was being made at 52:00 but I seriously don’t get how content creators haven’t realized that making fun of people with real jobs in any capacity is gonna come off bad lol.

[@rangerguy]

I don't enjoy how Custa never directly responds to someone's point and instead goes a different direction to sidestep talking about it. Also blatantly lying about how there aren't 6v6 fans actively trying to explain why it's better, and offering ideas as solutions.

[@Chazza-01]

Yeah, there is plenty of people saying what theyd do to fix the game. Do you know who ISNT? Oh, people like Custa... smh

[@burtmacklinfbi58]

that's because he's a shill/on Blizzard's payroll tbh

[@dkon1434]

@@burtmacklinfbi58 I wouldn't call him a shill, though. To me a shill is someone who doesn't tell anyone they're getting paid to say something. It's public knowledge custa works at blizzard and only an idiot would publicly trash their own employer

[@Geturgutsoffme]

6v6 doesn't fix anything lmao

[@gerhet7193]

Custa is very immature for attacking samito character for having an opinion on a video game

[@ratchetst3v38]

Largely seems like an aside, but regarding Custa saying "Riot has earned our trust" with Vanguard/ his borderline apathy. Obviously it's unlikely that whoever's involved with Vanguard and such is going to use our info against so many people. Yes it'll be a small percent of people screwed. 1) But Riot literally laid off a ton of people and immediately had a data breach... you cannot seriously expect us to trust them. 2) We do know people got fucking burned, Bogur said it best. This happened on their test launch in the Phillipines and they forced it out anyways. If that's not a giveaway of how untrustworthy they are, idk what is. 3) This was done globally in League of Legends, including the auto chess game where you basically cannot cheat without it being blatant. It's a pointless add on (and risk), it'd be like if you were suddenly required to install shit for OW even if you just do arcade or custom stuff with friends, and there's the 1+% chance you just lose your PC/ have to do a clean install. It's excessive and ineffective (there's already bypass cheats lmfao). 4) get the fuck over "I don't have anything on my PC to hide," people are entitled to their privacy. I'd be more willing for that invasive level of anticheat if it was required for ranked only, since a lot is monitored anyways, but come off it. I keep a separate computer for gaming and work/school, not everyone in this day and age has that luxury. Also not everyone knows to do that; obviously people are spreading the word, and there is a degree of responsibility, but the fucking company forcing an update has a responsibility that they've clearly ignored.

[@defaultdan7923]

the "i dont have anything to hide" mentality is so annoying to me honestly

[@rangerguy]

Everyone in the podcast needs to recognize all of the "doom posting" is only because of genuine emotions towards the game. It's probably the most natural reaction for people who are most disappointed with the game.

[@mrpetebojangles21]

Nah, someone like Samito has been a rage-baiter for years. For him, the “Game is now dead” has been going on for years. Fuck em

[@yarfoot7524]

100% I love the podcast and love the game just as much but the "doom posting" only exists because of the reputation that blizzard has, you WILL (almost) NEVER see a game with this much doom posting when it isn't somewhat warranted, the Overwatch 1 team abandoned their game, and that massacred the public perception, only for it to get 2x worse when the Dev team decided to move away from PvE.(which was probably the right decision as much as it sucks) Blizzard must rebuild their reputation and to be honest it wasn't until last season where I would say that they are mostly going in the correct direction. You don't see a bunch of people doom posting for the elden ring dlc, and thats because the reputation they have built. If the game gets consistently good content for a few more seasons or so the public perception will start to shift.

[@P_Bad]

​@@yarfoot7524honestly i think the outbreak of backlash for Overwatch 2 is going to require MUCH more than just "good" content and wacky sweeping changes, theyre doubling down on their failure by refusing to just bring back what made Overwatch a GotY game. If they drop the Overwatch 2 branding, seriously try a revamped 6v6 test beta offshoot or something, add back endcards, add lootboxes to the battlepass, etc. The game needs big picture ideas, sure its nostalgia bait but at this point many people are fed up with how theyve seemingly threw everything OW1 away but will slowly add those systems back while ignoring the elephants that i mentioned 🤷‍♂️

[@S3nCh4n]

@@mrpetebojangles21 well.. the esports is dead... quite literally, all the big names in high rank and esports have moved on to another game, the only reason why there are still people playing is because of free to play

[@charlestothe]

@@S3nCh4njust making shit up the first major lan is at the end of the month.

[@PugsleyThePear]

If I had a euro for every time I heard someone say "when Roadhog is meta the game sux" I could quit my eight-to-five job

[@theredguy92]

5v5 will never be balanced bc you cant evenly distribute power between 5 players and 3 roles at the same time. Either the tank is stronger than everyone else to balance power between the roles or the tank role is relatively weaker to balance the power between players. Logically there is no solution to the 5v5 equation.

[@wildeskompositum9556]

back to Samitos pp

[@Cruxis_Angel]

Tanking in 6v6 is a balance issue which is fixable. Tanking in 5v5 is a format issue. The game was never designed for solo tank play. Ppl are finally getting fed up with these changes. I think 6v6 will return in some way within the next 3 seasons

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@wildeskompositum9556 such a great counter point...

[@creativeusername4423]

@@Cruxis_Angel The game has always been asymmetrical, and in ow1 the dps were the least impactful ones for the longest time (they needed to force 2-2-2 in order to have them even get picked) and even after that the pool of viable dps heroes was incredibly small. Its not 5v5 issue, its just role based shooter issue. The roles will always be either weaker or stronger than the others, since the things they are designed to do are so diverse.

[@baileyskates]

​@@Cruxis_Angeli was gonna say 2 years. Blizzard is slow.

[@jonathasvieira6414]

56:23 dude, I really doubt your chat was asking you about symm "armor", they were probably asking how this affect beam damage against armor

[@Daddix0]

like how does that not get through to him. incredibly obvious

[@SuperLifestream]

​@Daddix0 I mean if they read the dev blog they would know that beam weapons have no change

[@Daddix0]

@@SuperLifestream you’re so right queen. you GO girl!

[@_reigner]

It's not our responsibility to make the devs feel happy to do the job they're PAID to do. Weird take from SVB

[@bobothebob4716]

I agree. Also dissing people that have normal jobs? Multiple times? "Let them eat cake moment".

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@bobothebob4716 well we only have an hour or so to play. How could we ever possibly know what is fun to us... this "debate" was by far the worst

[@DRUKENHOBO]

@@DriplessShrimp i want a group up without svb personally as it seams he cant comment on anything with an objective opinion.

[@moritzmehno770]

No but its kinda your duty not to insult or harass them. Nobody said you should make the devs happy?

[@_reigner]

@@moritzmehno770 I’d never waste my time harassing a BLIZZARD EMPLOYEE - and yes, SVB is insinuating that we should all shut up and let the devs keep destroying the game

[@TheBorderHoppr]

#BoycottTankTill6v6

[@STRONTIumMuffin]

I am of the opinion that 6v6 is absolutely the way to go but i'm not gunna cry about it.

[@Larg_Man]

its the only way to make tank balanceable

[@Brad2TheBoneOw]

Definitly not, zarya and dva com oed with queen and ramatra and doom qould be far too opressive​@Larg_Man

[@Das_Ungeheuer]

​@@Larg_Man I don't think you would enjoy being juggled around by Ball + Doom

[@Bry1an]

​@@Das_Ungeheuerthat is not a viable comp buddy what the hell are you talking about

[@Das_Ungeheuer]

@@Bry1an In a 6v6 scenario, it would be

[@zenpvnk]

I'm a "lower elo player", and I'd MUCH rather wait in a long queue for one good game than the constant barrage of total crap games you get now. Maybe they should let you choose between 2 or 3 levels of desired wait time.

[@Whokilledkenny9]

That sounds great in theory but I think comments like this just don't understand how hard matchmaking is, especially in a game like overwatch. Even if you have 10 players with the same exact SR in the lobby, it doesn't mean the match will be balanced. Differences in hero pools, how people are feeling going into the game (win streaks/loss streaks), ping, duos vs singles, players who were boosted, players having friends playing on other accounts, etc. Overwatch has so many different playstyles its incredible the matchmaking can even function. Its not like Valorant where you are arguably playing the same game as everyone else. Overwatch you got monkeys soaring through the sky, one shot snipers, players who have never played a fps in their life but are in diamond because they can play characters without any aim... I guarantee the longer you wait, the more jaded you will become as even your long games won't necessarily produce results. I would much rather play 5 games with maybe one being good, than waiting 10 minutes for a match that still has a good chance of being bad. Matchmaking has always been a contested issue in every game and its just a cycle of Want better matchmaking -> wtf my queues are too long -> My queues are short but matchmaking is bad -> wtf my queues are too long.

[@josephreynolds2401]

I put a queue delay on in the streamer controls. I like to get up and walk around, drink a glass of water. Might help the matchmaker to be in the pool for a bit longer, but I don't think this feature is made for that. IT WOULD BE VERY NICE IF IT DID. *winks at developers for an opt-in setting for longer queue times-->higher quality matches*

[@TrollGuyy]

@@Whokilledkenny9exactly . theres so many variables its impossible for the matchmaker to be perfect . what people need to do is stop worrying so much about things they have no power in changing . it makes way more sense for people to focus on things they can control individually rather than stuff that isnt such as matchmaking or teammates . the people who cry in game chat about teammates and matchmaking are by far the worst offenders of complaining and spreading their tantrums with others like are we serious right now lol grow up

[@q_yrko9067]

You're right, those where the worst take ever. The matchmaking hasn't ever been so consistent in competitive and finally I feel rewarded for my effort and skill developement (I ranked up twice in one week playing at a normal pace, compared to hours of desperate grind for ranking up once and then being immediately pulled back, as in season 7 and 8)

[@DillonU2]

Did anyone else see what Custa said about Samito? Dude is a clown

[@jessebammann4947]

Lmao yes, I respect samito's skill and all that but it's hard to conclude anything else that what custa did when you look at the way he goes about the 6v6 discussion.

[@ethanosborn989]

What did he say ? @DillonU2

[@meduza93]

​@@ethanosborn989he called Sam a "grifter". Just straight up low IQ comment but its not like people care about Custas clown opinion.

[@Deltaomega]

@@jessebammann4947but the thing is, custa pretty much called him a hypocrite scammer, (forget what word it was but it meant hypocrite) even though Sam isn’t, guy sticks to his beliefs, but the irony is him calling sam a hypocrite scammer is he works for blizzard, the company that scammed us with overwatch 2. So it was a shit take. And he also called him Ben Shapiro, but Sam’s pretty much said he doesn’t care too much about that one.

[@jessebammann4947]

@@Deltaomega look I literally watch Sam I like him, I'm saying how he handled this 6v6 stuff is inflammatory and clickbaitey, and he doesn't debate to find a solution other than his own that he started with. That part of his behavior isn't all he is, custa knows that most likely, and is talking about a part of him being grifting and baiting, not him in totality.

[@themaskedman8014]

Can we get a 1 trick only podcast next? It'd be really cool to get someone on each role but I understand scheduling conflicts

[@FiestaTX17]

The Samito hate is a little sad to see, people vilify him for speaking an honest opinion that more than a few of us share

[@kruppson6478]

can you timestamp where they talk about him?

[@DriplessShrimp]

​@@kruppson6478outside this debate Custa released a video going pretty heavy on insults towards Sam.

[@AndreaGiampietro-rg8nr]

Could you please point me to all istances where he was villify in the last 2 years for his opinions except when he said so in his videos or streams? I can wait, thx

[@izespo7983]

​@@AndreaGiampietro-rg8nryou're so drunk. Please fix your comment in the morning when you're hungover so that people can actually understand your comments

[@DriplessShrimp]

@@AndreaGiampietro-rg8nr did you watch the video were commenting on? Hawk and Sam are the two most outspoken 6v6 streamers. Custa and SVB passive aggresively attacked them both at around an hour in. Then ten minutes later SVB brought it up again.

[@its-tinyavocado]

11:10 this is such a bad take. You're taking game balance problems and blame players for using it. Sigh.

[@KingOfNebbishes]

You have to remember it's a podcast of t500/former t500 players in a game making content that lives off ego and appeals to authority. Lower players are always wrong and must be belittled and mocked at every turn.

[@AimLessRayne]

Its a great take. The only time that negative balance format comes into play is when someone opts into playing one of those characters. If u care that much about winning don't act like ur sorry when u opt into the same thing you just bashed not 10 mins before hand.

[@ethanosborn989]

@marshmallowmarshes fr I was thinking the same exact thing

[@bambampewpew32]

Exactly lmfao I was thinking that too bruh like we're mad it's an easy way to get value, we still want to win our games

[@bambampewpew32]

​@@ethanosborn989 lmao me too

[@wayfer7243]

This podcast fell tf off. Say all you want about Samito, he ain't afraid to have a heated discussion. This is just 4 people tiptoeing around offending blizzard.

[@seraphimrosenhart173]

Bogur summed it up perfectly. There's nothing wrong with more supportive supports or more offensive supports, but the issue is when some supports can do it all with no tradeoff. Baptiste and Kiriko are great examples. Heavy healing, impactful utility, high damage, high mobility.. They have it all. This is why characters like Mercy and Lifeweaver struggle, as they don't have everything and are lacking impact in the mid to high ranks. They have mid single target healing, low/inconsistent damage, decent utility. Characters like Ana and Lucio are more healthy as they have clear strengths, but also equally clear weaknesses.

[@e.b.9702]

Custa is not a Support players representative! We do NOT claim this clown!

[@DriplessShrimp]

Blizzard claims him

[@PainxSorrow]

@@DriplessShrimphe’s a paid actor same w svb shills to the bone

[@OutworldDestroyer]

Who are you to claim to be a representative?

[@ashonline77]

whos we?

[@Geturgutsoffme]

He definitely is lmao. He can play almost every support at a higher level than 99% of the player base lmao he's a retired pro. He's just not biased towards his main role...

[@Jae_JETT]

1:37:38 But you kinda can. Eskay literally started a whole thing not too long ago, she made a great video with great examples and great solutions and the devs noticed and took notes

[@RoniDraws]

bogur really forgot how many things can forcibly displace you, there are quite a few things that move you, the obvious ones are brig and lucio boop, but then theres, winton ult, hog ult, doom punch, dva booster bump, queen knife, ball boop, piledrive and mines, orisa ult suck, javelin and spin, mauga charge, venture ult, dig and dash, ashe coach, bastion nade, junkrat mine, pharah boop, illari shift, and zen kick and tanks still have to contend with other type of CC that really makes tank suffer, dps passive, anti heal, sleep, hack, slow, trap, stun, hinder, discord these armor and boop changes are very welcome

[@nuclearsimian3281]

Definitely a lot of survivorship bias there.

[@yoyocherio]

I haven’t watched the vid yet so I might be missing context but tanks should be boopable, they already have a pretty strong passive, it shouldn’t be buffed, a tank should be able to be booped if they’re out of position, it’s already a weaker boop. Sincerely a tank player

[@izespo7983]

​@@yoyocherioow2 tank take. No

[@Vastspartan]

@@izespo7983 Nah, they should. I say this as a tank too. Ball is so crappy that its pointless to knock around a tank.

[@burtmacklinfbi58]

he's a blizzard shill, so what can you expect really 🤷

[@dstorms]

Almost 3 hours complaining about people complaining....

[@user-tu8lf3vc6g]

Always happy to see Yeatle on the podcast. Super reasonable and chill dude

[@ElyntMusic]

This is not a debate. There’s supposed to be multiple sides in a debate. This is just four people upset that A LOT of others don’t wanna “just be happy the way the game is”

[@BackwardsCourage]

I think the real problem for Tank is that everybody is stuck on the 6v6 vs 5v5 debate. Why do you have to die on a specific hill? If we can make all of these changes to the game, why can't we try a 6v6 season? If this community wants change, then we have to ACCEPT the change. Whether or not it's a change we've already been through. Are we not back at a close-to-previous armor change? I think Role Queue is a horrible option for 5v5 myself. I think if the team wants to sit on this format, they should revert back to balancing an Open Role format. If they really wanted to kill GOATs, then they should have removed the problem hero, or reworked her. Why is the team so gung-ho on reworking every hero now? Where was this ingenuity when Brig needed changes, to not bring the game to a screeching halt? I can't really imagine this team knows what they want for the game, STILL. Almost two years later, and we haven't landed in a healthy place for this game. Can we just try ANYTHING ELSE?

[@S3nCh4n]

Because then they might not balance 6v6 properly (like keeping passives and tank HP numbers, not nerfing tank abilities etc etc) and then go "SEE? IT actually sucks!" And then go back to 5v5. IF they actually balance it properly for 1 season and people want it back, then the 5v5/OW2 enjoyers will cry. IF they have BOTH 5v5 and 6v6 at the same time then that would mean having to work on balance for both game modes and that is too much work :(((

[@libertyprime9307]

Trying 6v6 for only one season would be awful. It would just be an imbalanced season. That's a change you either go 100% on, or 0% on.

[@S3nCh4n]

@@libertyprime9307 they could just do a quickplay hack style thing for a week or put it in the arcade and gather data from there. No need to completely replace base game.

[@libertyprime9307]

@@S3nCh4n What would be the value of data gathering if they totally scuff it?

[@denjii9]

theres a reason no one calls surefour a shill for liking 5v5 more compared to the people that are being called shills lmao

[@bambampewpew32]

Huh? What is the reason lol also he said he likes 5v5? Wtf I thought he liked fun overwatch lmao

[@richrich6409]

Can’t wait for when you bring Samito back on 😂. Great episode as always SVB 👌

[@ninthfriend3347]

Another podcast for me to listen in the background as I’m busy with my own things! Love these podcasts ❤

[@_reigner]

bruh he said 8-5...

[@ketchupgalli6379]

hes such a goofy goober

[@bambampewpew32]

About what?

[@KingOfNebbishes]

I find it grimly hilarious that we're back to the old armor system; shows that change just for change's sake was a blind alley for OW2 development. Maybe we can give Torb some utility and let him, I dunno, throw armor packs or something. XD

[@PhoTC]

So you're not a game dev obviously.

[@DonCarmolo]

I miss my old Torbie. Bad and hilarious.

[@ironman1458]

@@PhoTC At this point I doubt the blizzard devs are either

[@lruddy8820]

tank will nvr be good in 5v5, its just so lonely being the only front line

[@tyfo1464]

1:08:47 SVB, no I don’t want anymore changes so we still have a chance to try 6v6. we’ve been open to 5v5 for 8-9 seasons. Why can’t we try swinging the other direction for once in the history of OW2??

[@dannyhernandez112]

Yall can call me a conspiracy theorist if yall want but I think the reason the devs are making these changes to tank is they want to giga buff the role to counter all the 6v6ers. They’re going say look see we made tank the most powerful role in the game and it’s still the least played role that proves there aren’t enough tank players for 6v6 haha we got you stfu now. And it will be the most disingenuous thing they’ve done since releasing OW2. Giga buffing tanks is not what tank players or players in general want. We want the role to be fun, we want tank duos back, we to have a fun experience playing the game. 1 tank will never be a fun experience, you will always get singled out as the only tank you will always be the focus. Giga buffing the role will not change that.

[@Summonick2]

They don’t give a single fuck about 6v6 I promise. There’s no conspiracy to try to squash a sentiment expressed by less than 5% of total players.

[@bambampewpew32]

​​@@Summonick2 "less than 5%" a LOT of people who liked 6v6 don't play the game anymore lol, casuals were enjoying tf out of ow1 too, 6v6 was not even disliked or even a conversation until blizzard announced they were changing it

[@dannyhernandez112]

⁠@@Summonick2 Im not even going to get into how stupid you are for even thinking the number is that low. I’ll just say this, You have no possible way of knowing how many people do or don’t want 6v6 back without gathering actual data on the topic from as many players and former players as possible and that hasn’t been done by anyone especially blizzard.

[@its_lucky252]

i feel like a middle aged father listening to this during workouts

[@utk8718]

lucio kiri and tracer are played alot. Its not just pro play, every game has these characters on either team and its really a coin toss if you get a reddit lucio or not

[@Dezatron-]

I have been saying that kiriko is very strong. From suzu to ult to damage potential to survivability. Not to mention, you could cleanse an entire team if they are positioned correctly. There's just too much value for her.

[@kevinwilson471]

And suzu heals for some reason lol

[@DarkEnd.]

Hard to listen when Custa and SVB call other CC's who are critical of OW2 shills. Absolutely gaslighting the community, we want this game to be better

[@jorrellrichardson3181]

They need a tutorial series for various situations

[@Rambone1978]

Custa calling Samito a grifter is wild, hope sam sees this

[@AbbyOW2]

When did he say it

[@Rambone1978]

@@AbbyOW2 kzbin.infoRqxq3orfWtg?si=EYs3OG5YPFjeNe9B at around 1:28, calls samito a grifter and says he looks like ben Shapiro

[@bambampewpew32]

​@@AbbyOW2 oh hey lmao

[@eagerinspirit]

If they call all these genuine complaints from the community "a bunch of Samito fans flooding the comments" next episode I genuinely might begin to think they're shills. I don't think they are, but that'd be way too disingenuous of a framing for me to not question.

[@Buvbyie.]

I doubt theyll acknowledge it.

[@eagerinspirit]

@@Buvbyie. LOL you predicted it.

[@LicensedContractor]

Definitely going to be listening to this instead of whatever boring speech at my graduation later today

[@ranjnijan3446]

Congratulations man!

[@LicensedContractor]

@@ranjnijan3446 thank you!!!

[@zesky1822]

W take lmao

[@gmanz5]

The YEATMEISTER!

[@Dfm25387]

They lost me talking shit about normal people

[@moritzmehno770]

They did not though? I read this multiple times now but I dont see where this is coming from. They just talked shit about people who are always complaining no matter what. Wich is fine, there are enough of those people whos criticism isnt genuine.

[@Savevade]

I'm gonna talk shit about people who complain about the game I like and it's fine because I think they're wrong

[@raffyarceus99]

I want Samito in every podcast, he represents so many of us who want 6 v 6 back

[@wildeskompositum9556]

the DELUSION HOLY

[@BackwardsCourage]

​@@wildeskompositum9556 It's not really delusional. Badly worded? Sure, but I think the writing IS on the wall. How many changes are we going to make that don't actually fix the issue for tanks? There's only three things that really broke 6v6, and I think fixing three things would be WAY easier, than reworking the whole game. That's just my opinion, though. 🤷

[@RIP_ZYZZ1738]

@@BackwardsCourageBadly worded? Samito has the most thorough explanations of it

[@BackwardsCourage]

@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 I was speaking more about OPs message. I don't think we should blindly follow Samito's message. Do I agree with a lot of the points he makes? Sure do, but I don't think it would benefit me to not critically think about what he says and how it might interact with the game. I also believe Sam thrives on being challenged in that way. Sam dies on the "go back to 6v6" hill, while I die on the "stop pushing it so far down one lane, because you're blinding yourself with arrogance" hill.

[@garikek]

I'd like samito in the episodes more because then it would be an actual debate and not 4 people agreeing with each other for 3 hours straight. That's why salted is a good guest. He's gonna bring something into the debate that's not as stupid as avrl's takes. This podcast for sure is getting really boring over time because it's like every episode is the same.

[@michaelpurdon7032]

On Clash: its in the qp rotation and I've been playing a lot of qp this last month. The more I've played it the more I like it. People are learning how to manage the tug of war aspect. When to push and when to just give one up for a hold

[@slimsclanyt]

Love the podcast!!! I look forward to them:) makes the night go by at work

[@hartyewh1]

The issue is not companies seeing your online surfing habbits, but your passwords, bank details etc and further that's an additional path for third parties to abuse. There should be AI models checking simple things like mouse movement on the server side. If you can easily see someone is hacking then a bit of machine learning can turn that into rules and that's all you need in an fps. Wall hacking is the same.

[@galivar607]

This podcast is quickly deteriorating. Ethos, Pathos, Logos. Go back to basics and stop with this strictly corpo gaslight circlejerk nonsense

[@sonofanarchy5594]

For clash, why don’t they just make the score based on how far you progressed into the enemy points. Like, Team 1 pushes final point and captures 90% of that point. They have lead until Team B caps over 90% on their final point. OT happens if the losing team is on the active capture point and continues until losing team takes lead or dies or is off point. Then instead of tracking via point captures, the scoreboard works closer to Push. There is a match timer and it’s very difficult to cap the final point, but you have incentive to try in order to get a higher percentage.

[@user-wk2mw3wi2y]

This panel nailed it on their analysis of tank changes. BUT... DPS spam damage will do so well against tanks because of the armor changes. 30-35% damage increase for Hanzo, Torb and Junkrat. This, combined with tanks being less effective into armor and the headshot passive, makes spam damage and CC the best counterplay options.

[@megamonstudios]

I think it's wild that we have to entertain the idea that HS damage should go unrewarded, I've toyed around with the idea of less hs on tank but ultimately it's bad for the game. The biggest reason tanks feel even worse are the projectile changes which yes do effect squishies but greatly effects how often tanks are HS. Before on junkerqueen I could navigate the map without taking as much damage by default because people wouldn't HS nearly as much but now it's hard to even peak for knife without half of my HP missing. These are the unintended effects of the projectile changes and will continue to be pretty hard to balance overall without making other characters feel pretty bad

[@justguitaring]

Great point. The projectile changes were supposed to make the game "easier" by raising the skill floor, but it actually makes the game much harder for the skill floor because they can't even exist in this game anymore. The beauty of OW was that it WASN"T CoD, CS, or Valorant. I didn't have to hide behind every object. I could play the game in more ways than just hide/shoot/hide/shoot/run away. They didn't even test these projectile changes properly, evidenced by how many of the changes they've already rolled back.

[@megamonstudios]

​@@justguitaring Another thing to consider is how the health changes also make it so tank v tank feel bad vs each other it's even worse trying to directly tank trade but also going for squishies also feel bad because it on average just takes longer to burst someone down outside of hog hook. Even with some tank damage increases on the whole if often feels like your weapons a wet noodles compared to earlier. Not being able to walk to get into effective range due to the projectile changes as well has just exponentially made tanking harder if your not orisa, mauga or hog

[@NightBlade117]

The 5v5 vs 6v6 debate at its core honestly

[@justguitaring]

@@megamonstudios That's a good point. It never felt that way in 6v6, no matter which tank you played. I remember being both terrifying on Winston and terrified of winstons damage in some cases. Now it really feels like the difference between the meta tanks that can kill, like hog and mauga right now, and other tanks is insane.

[@bambampewpew32]

​@@justguitaring exactly, that's why I liked shields honestly, besides orisa sigma obviously

[@yamchacrater2913]

On the last topic about speed of the game modes, I’d love if they changed up control mode a bit. Once a map ends everyone should be warped to the spawn room of the new map and given 10 seconds to pick heroes. All 3 control point maps are on the same map actually. Just warp everyone to the new spawn rooms and get the battle for the next point going. The mode takes forever sometimes

[@francismetherell4919]

1:25:11 We do play other games. I play Destiny 2, Diablo 4, Cyberpunk 2077, Baldur's Gate 3, even Starfield a bit. I don't play Overwatch anywhere near as often, but when I do, the same flaws are there. Same songs sung, same verses read.

[@michaelc7418]

Literally all they had to do to make 2CP good was change the Capture Points into Control Points so that games can't end in a few minutes, as well as make sure there's a 2nd route to point A for each 2CP map so that people don't get stuck at chokes.

[@S3nCh4n]

there usually are 2nd routes, but the problem was the stalling from defense because their spawns were right next to the point. The increased respawn time was actually a huge improvement idk why they removed those maps

[@ducasse8473]

I hate to be just another version of a 6v6 guy. But with no role lock its very hard to force meta because theres almost always someone that cant play certain heroes so you can exploit team comps easier. Role lock just naturally makes it so that we are always looking for the safest solutions to problems. Instead of making our decisions work well for us. I know open queue can turn into world of tanks very fast but even during goats even some of the best gm players i know didnt actually use the powers of multiple tanks very effectively. People just seemed more mad that they couldnt headshot squishies that much during tjose metas.

[@julicomo9815]

SVB be yapping recently

[@tehrag]

The wide group ranges for silver to plat seems to be working much better now. Max was around 15 to 20 min, but has been reduced to around 5 min recently

[@vinsmoke-d-sanji9575]

So low level players are gonna keep allowing bogur to insult them every time he talks abt low ranks, saying they're idiots basically, I've notice tht abt him, I hope he remember most of his audience are low elo players

[@ironman1458]

Most people who play the game are low rank. Most people in general are also idiots. Don't take it personally

[@toecollector9329]

Bruh magno bang is magnetic?!?! I thought it just had a big hitbox or something and still needed to be hit😂

[@lruddy8820]

for me sometimes its a small little power trip to be that "heal bot" support your team and nothing else kinda support, if a tank wents to get aggressive im the one letting them do that for some of the supports im the one deciding where you play or if you live or die or able to take angles its like im pulling the strings from the shadows

[@neodaltiair8624]

Flashbang was so much better. The only problem was they added so many stuns to the game. Flashbang launched in the game and there was only 1 regular hard stun.

[@frozenmaverick4677]

Yeah like mag grenade is even more annoying, like yay flashbang lasts 3 seconds now AND DOES 75 DAMAGE YAYYYYY

[@bambampewpew32]

EXACTLY, nobody cared about flash until way later, after they added brig and others

[@dietmetal]

As a Mercy and Ana player, I can say that I enjoy playing Mercy when I want to play Overwatch like a resource management simulator. I like having the top down perspective (literally and figuratively) on the match that Mercy provides as opposed to other supports

[@kingtswasey]

31 minutes ago?? What a swell treat

[@sulack]

When did The Great Debate become the Great Complain About People Complaining?

[@secretlyaslug2325]

As a flex player who played a lot of OW1 Cassidy. I really missed flash when they took it out. But it seriously had to go. Tank into cass was so shit. But so much of his power level was in that ability that removing it has kind of killed how powerful he feels to play, he feels incomplete now. But at the same time mag nade is just so bizarre, unfun to use and play against, it's never as consistent as flash used to be. It should go as well. It either needs to focus in on being a reliable disable or slow, or it needs to be a powerful burst damage option like ashe dynamite. But it's such a confused ability. It does neither thing effectively and just feels bad to use and so unfair when playing a hero who lives or dies on 1 cooldown like Reaper.

[@izespo7983]

McCree

[@justguitaring]

I actually don't think it needed to go at all. I agree it wasn't great into tanks, but that was more of an issue with how much CC there was and it all got thrown on tanks. Instead, they just needed to take away bad CC, like Brig's stun (which they mostly did) and Hack (which is still garbage).

[@S3nCh4n]

I think flash was fine because you could try to outplay it with deflect/facing your shield up. And then you could try to predict that and flash their feet. It was a fun experience trying to predict your opponents. Heck you even have to account for the head bobbing (especially on tracer) to not mess up your combo. Only issue for him was his right click spread. Other wise he's well designed. Mag grenade feels so RNG sometimes takes away skill

[@justguitaring]

@@S3nCh4n Well said

[@denjii9]

flash added so much depth in ow1 that even with all the ccs in that game except for like brig stun the game still felt pretty good, you really had to think about how to engage certain characters, and as a character with cc if you misused it you just kinda died so it really added a lot of depth, like roadhog being able to one shot people throughout most of the games lifespan because his heal couldnt be cancelled so a well timed cc just meant he died

[@rawrrcheco]

It’s unhealthy how bad I look forward to these podcast lol

[@CD-sl7ld]

im stupid

[@zacharyjune7510]

Alwlem

[@originalyoutubername5188]

You thought it was Mei too, didn’t you?

[@CD-sl7ld]

@@originalyoutubername5188 ?

[@jeffstone7471]

nuh uh

[@gerhet7193]

For watching this shill podcast?

[@lichee12]

I wonder if the idea behind shorter games is you get less leavers that way?

[@LanguageOfLuje]

Wow, Custa kinda sucks

[@mistawhite7177]

Yo how they get James Franco on here!

[@ikhalid1418]

was yeatle there in case someone had to tag out?

[@ryannkeenan9528]

I was fixing for one of these

[@Woopinah]

2:19:10 this is so real. One time we got to point E and we literally got 15+ kills and a Team Kill, yet it wasnt enough to cap and eventually we all ended up dying and lost the point lol

[@icarus.1971]

talking about mag grenand, a cas threw it at me when i was tracer, i hit recalled and it followed me through the whole process.

[@TractorProductions]

The last points on clash are supposed to feel impossible it’s so the enemy team doesn’t feel like they are getting stomped and still have an opportunity to win

[@jorrellrichardson3181]

I would say you guys need to grind some mirror watch so you can have opinions on possible changes. It's like a quick play hacked that you all championed

[@DarthPicarat]

Some only want to heal...those are your main healers, the OTHER guy can then pick off heals. Almost like it works better if theres TWO of each class 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔v🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@Neeeeeeeeeto]

why dont they put a resume of the balance changes on the main menu? like "Big balance changes coming! armor reworked,ball buffs,queen buffs and more!"

[@bobothebob4716]

What do we want? Well, I personally want OW1 classic. Just go the WoW route. All the people that like retail OW can go play retail OW, and all us who want things reverted can go to OW Classic.

[@Doople]

Intresting point about how content creators speak about the game. Tekken was going through a similar thing with a few of the most notable pros speaking negatively about the game. Though that was mostly solved by the pros standing by their criticisms but admitting they should be more careful, that some of it is personal failings and that they are having fun playing the game. It was a very balanced approach that helped shape how people speak on the game. Of course their is still complaining and negativity but its better than before

[@Callmebearr]

Yeatle is a handsome lad

[@lruddy8820]

the dude from pirate softwear when he worked for blizzard explained how they would ban cheaters in waves every few months so the cheaters couldnt pick up on what was being detected so it was harder for them to make better cheats which i get the logic but i think its wrong, during those months your player base things your not doing anything letting cheaters ruin games and players experiences creating a bad taste in players mouths i think devs should be banning people more often to the real player base can feel like the devs are involved and engaged and care

[@MrTenInHell]

I don't counter switch if I know I am at the rank I deserve. I haven't been Gold 4 since 2017-18 why the fuck would I lose that game on Winston against an OW2 Orisa/Hog bot. Lower rank players also give up if you don't counter switch.

[@jimbokan1046]

Man SVB has become such a blizzard shill these days. 2 podcast in a row man was just defending cooperation non stop

[@BubbaSpeakSoNonchalant]

⁠ but is 5v5 better then 6v6 forget the queue times which one is better simple as that you can’t balance 5v5 and even Jeff Kaplan and others said this awhile back they tested 5v5 7v7 and even 8v8 and concluded 6v6 was more balance for the game look at the testing video when the came was about to come out bot

[@kielmessersmith1956]

The next qp hacked should address hard CC and see what its like if you get rapid ability cooldowns when hit with it. So countering a particular hero or playstyle with constant CC isnt so braindead and without risk.