The Great Metal Rank Debate feat. Lemonkiwi, Bame1 & Cuppcaake

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Timestamps
0:00 Introductions & Ranked Backgrounds of the Guests
17:08 Blizzard Layoffs
35:00 The Differences Between The Metal Ranks & GM
1:13:58 Unranked To GMs
1:22:00 Overwatch's Balance Philosophy
1:42:00 Playing With Friends & Social Systems
1:50:20 Is ELO Hell Real?
2:13:08 The Ranked System
2:37:30 Concluding Thoughts

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 27th January 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why let SVB know on his stream where he would really appreciate your subs while he is trying to get into the Partner Plus Programme (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) or his second channel The Soak (youtube.com/@TheSoak ) where he does movie, TV & anime breakdowns! The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-metal-rank-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@FGPlus]

Wait what?

[@darrionrobinson8553]

*2024

[@I.B.S]

Idk if this means anything but I appreciate you speaking about the blizzard lay-offs immensely because well gamers only get mad when their games go to sh*t but not much further than that...

[@FGPlus]

@darrionrobinson8553 that would be impossible or a typo 😅

[@dancrew6721]

This is the Dr Seuss group... Red hair, Green Hair; Grey Hair, No Hair.

[@Imbadatleague]

Red shirt, comfy chair

[@solarscreams2447]

Large fry, chocolate shake!

[@lPkPkers]

Lemon Kiwi, svb, and banana cake!

[@levelwhat]

without having watched the end, glad to see this topic represented. GM streamers talking about other ranks is one thing, but I didn't even know there were dedicated streamers closer to my rank and progression, and now I have new people to follow!

[@texdoc89]

They exist, but of course with us being in low ranks and our games not looking as flashy it's more on our personalities to get people to come hang out and not the gameplay 😂. Least that has been my experience lol

[@mycelia_ow]

I'm hoping this new rank system and rank reset allows all of the hardstucks to finally escape the elo trap, and not just place metal again and stay there.A lot of these lower rank streamers I could see belonging in masters and up. They need to get there first before learning how to play in those queues, but should be there now nontheless..

[@tigerfalco]

​@@texdoc89same honestly. I just recently hit Masters the last time I streamed OW. Honestly I'm not sure what to do in terms of even bringing people in. I can't be funny 24/7, so I'm sure a lot of people might look and be like "he's not this rank" and click off.

[@texdoc89]

@@tigerfalco I'm sure there are some who do and I wouldn't fault them for it if they said it about me. I used to be Masters in OW1 but that was on console and now I'm on PC. I just try my best to be the best me and whether people like that or not is out of my control.

[@mamboonthetube7652]

Bame is the coziest man I have ever seen in my life with a rock solid mental to boot

[@vixantenna]

overwatch dad

[@J.R.Swish1]

Bame 1v2s Chazm and Yeatle on ball every day of the week with his monitor turned off

[@Viejo93]

Bame once saw these two kids playing overwatch, so he gave them some wrecking ball tips. Those kids were Yeatle and Chazm.

[@israphial]

SVB, I really appreciate that you brought up Kotick's $400 million USD payout that would've more than paid for all of the laid off employees' salaries. That single sentence really distills the issue down to its horrifying reality. Which is that the bad guy won and nearly 2000 people lost their livelihoods this week. A solid chunk of them are financially struggling this week as a result of this. It's disgusting and infuriating.

[@everilliem3292]

Welcome to life.

[@jacobbaartz7710]

Great start, have to say bame is looking super healthy since I last saw him. Solid effort chief

[@cheeekeygames]

Yes! I noticed too! 😊 He's also just chill and knows what he wants to do which I really respect

[@yata71289]

Omg right! Dudes looking better every time I see him

[@christiancook6630]

BAME IS THE GOAT

[@jacobbrady173]

Dude he's thrown so many of my games

[@mamboonthetube7652]

@@jacobbrady173goat behavior

[@LepsMere]

Yep

[@Amy_399]

@@jacobbrady173 if you're good enough you could've carried those games anyway. adapt

[@user-cu4mh3fy8h]

The Goldest of All Time?

[@wolfbeard76]

Idk who Bame even is but I’m watching him after this though, love the mental of just chilling and having a good time

[@avatarofdeath]

I love that Bame is just being a comfy older man

[@Viejo93]

1:09:23 I get what she’s saying. It’s like a place where you can set rules and find “like-minded” players who have the same end-goal. Whether it be have fun, or sweat and climb, or practice comps. Oh wait, we did have that. It was the LFG feature they erased.

[@ismphob]

For lemonkiwi's software point I think it was called Visor and blizzard banned it. It was a program that gave real time coaching advice using ai but I think the nail in the coffin was it was able to ult track by itself

[@dirusj4006]

This is the answer.

[@mycelia_ow]

That's exactly wha lower ranks need. Blizzard is so out of touch, they have all of these rare great ideas (this, lfg, hero bans, etc.) and do little to nothing with it. They're too afraid of change, even despite season 9. Every season should have changes like season 9.

[@yeh386]

1:20:20 By this point I've disagreed with every take by Lemon so far but this one is so mind boggling to me. Like, yes, the good players are inspiring lower ranks and proving to them that it's possible to climb with some hero, some playstyle, or whatever. THAT IS THE POINT. THAT'S A GOOD THING. What they are trying to prove is that if you're good, anything is possible, and the next step is to practice and become good.

[@cheesyburger2944]

as a reddit lucio one trick i got really mad when she said that.

[@BeatingUr]

I want you to know that I think you're precious, and you should never stop. ​@cheesyburger2944

[@Soukl]

@@cheesyburger2944tbh I want you to stop lmao

[@insighttB]

yeah holy shit, i cant listen to her. respectfully.

[@yeh386]

​@@cheesyburger2944I got mad too because I one tricked Ball in gold and recently climbed to GM after 2 years and had people telling me the same shit in so many games. "This hero isn't for you", "You're not chazm", etc. Obviously I wasn't good back then, but I was playing with the intention of becoming good and I'm really proud of where I am now. Keep on dropping those beats and good luck on your journey wherever you are!

[@WheelsOfDeath]

Thank you, Bame for representing for bronze players! It is hell trying to climb sometimes ☠️

[@Azarthes]

Immediately the first point of the metal rank experience is bullshit. People peak when they onetrick, why would you want someone to play a character theyre trash at???

[@richardhandler8606]

I like to look at the roster as a set of tools good for different jobs. If I’m playing genji into mei, pharmercy, moira, and kiriko, I would have to try so incredibly hard to achieve the same value a character like soldier would get with relative ease. Obviously having experience on a character makes you perform better, but there will always be a situation where forcing yourself to play the same character, into a comp that is working against you, is a significant disadvantage.

[@Azarthes]

@@richardhandler8606 if you're playing genji in Mei, pharah mercy, Moira, and kiriko I would say stop playing open queue :p But no I still disagree with the basic statement. If you're a good genji and a shit widow I don't care how much more.value you can get on widow, you're not gonna get any value if you suck at the character

[@Sizzyl]

@@richardhandler8606 by having more playtime on one hero (such as by one tricking) that disadvantage not only isn't very significant, but many of those disadvantages disappear completely. One-tricking also lets you focus on your overwatch skills to improve much more rapidly than spreading thin, as you actually need to be good at the game to win instead of just picking the easy path that'll win you some games.

[@sesshonuyasha]

@@SizzylIf not one tricking and you enjoy playing multiple heroes - A way to optimize this is by playing for synergy with the better performers of the team For Instance - My Moira is on Fire ! but getting held down by a sombra I switch to Dva to bodyguard her a lil bit

[@mabbaa]

even the podcast was way more chilled lol. Loved the change of pace.

[@markkilla781]

They could add more info to the progression screen and use that as a way to compare to the other players of your rank.

[@jacobkelly1653]

SVB has gotta do the 2 metal ranks and 2 gms now, lemonkiwi gave him a free 3 video ideas with 1 suggestion

[@shiroimarcio]

2013 (I think) Satoru Iwata from Nintendo refused to lay off employees because it would reduce a lot the moral of the ones that were still there (that will not know their jobs are secure)

[@Youknowmikekhan]

As someone new I really wish they had looking for a group

[@aeonamadi]

I think the biggest mistake in metal play is that so many people spend SO MUCH TIME flaming their team when they could just... Shoot the enemy team and get better results lmfao. Like, dude if you're on Soldier and you're typing away, that's 171 DPS you're literally wasting with every word/two words depending on how fast you type. You're literally just standing still lol.

[@drakedbz]

I'll be honest, lemon, I'm the kind of person that's not going to join voice and generally will become more resistant to swapping if someone asks me to. I straight up play better when I'm not thinking about what other people think of me. I play better when I can focus on my own gameplay rather than being in voice and getting flamed. I'll even turn off text chat if it gets bad enough. No amount of "help" the randos in plat try to give me is going to make me a better player. I'd rather watch gm+ streamers and learn from them and slowly try to implement what they're saying. Yes that means I'll have some rough games, but I'm in that rank for a reason.

[@strawberrydialectics]

1:11:30 my impression from the dev saying "quickplay is serious so dont leave games" was less about it being the same as ranked and more-so that people leaving games simply hurts the experience of other players. there are times when its outside circumstances that force you to leave but choosing to leave games because its not going your way is hurting that teams outcome and morale. ive had games where people leave BECAUSE they backfilled into a losing game. that feels awful. I'd rather finish a game trying, than become a backfill or get backfills. it doesnt matter if this is qp or ranked. if im constantly getting leavers in my qp games, my desire to play crashes down. i believe playing a game through to its finish is the least people can do even if they arent doing well because youre still giving yourself & your team that time to learn from mistakes.

[@rosssivertson6339]

The thing that drives me crazy is the amount of games that start with at least 1 person afk. Last time I played this occurred 5 matches in a row. In most of those matches by the time the person picked a character an engagement or 2 had already been lost ect ect. Games tend to snowball after that. Those used to be the matches I would leave. I would do it early too when I noticed we weren't going to have a full team by the time the doors opened. Now I have to endure it while there's 0 punishment for these people who are late to the game.

[@strawberrydialectics]

@@rosssivertson6339 i think of it like this: if i have an afk at the start, i just play safe until we get a fill. if i leave & requeue i might be just wasting my own time. you can still get kills as a 4v5 and have a comeback with backfill. or if i get rolled then its just a fast match and i accept it, oh well.

[@rosssivertson6339]

I get where your coming from but it's very frustrating to say the least and it happens fairly frequently

[@strawberrydialectics]

@@rosssivertson6339 yeah its very frustrating. im just saying ive learned to go with it than make it worse

[@ryanl5052]

Even people on this call showing elitism and being super defensive while harshly critiquing others in THEIR rank. It's okay to be bronze or diamond and admit there are things you could do to improve. No need to put people down or be so prickly, but I suppose the culture around 'rank' leads to that defensive nature. Wish people broke the trend with better and more introspective takes.

[@Furawa95]

I love you

[@ryanl5052]

@@Furawa95 love you too ❤️ unless you're a Zen main...

[@mamboonthetube7652]

Spoken like a gold (I kid, I kid, I’m gold too). That’s the weirdest thing to me about OW flaming its like man everyone seems personally offended by the idea that a human being can make a mistake or have a gap in their knowledge meanwhile they’re all making mistakes of their own

[@ryanl5052]

Haha im diamond/plat but agreed. I can admit I am not leaps and bounds above a gold player, and I make a lot of positioning mistakes, get tunnel vision, can work on my mechanical skill, etc. Some of the points made on the call come off as like 'im diamond, ive neeeeever been as low as bronze, im not a trash idiot" like heaven forbid 🙃

[@comd.shepard]

The egos on these plats & diamonds is unreal.........my guy has the best mental on ball, have fun & let people have fun. These 2 doesn't realise if they were sooooo good & had such a good understanding of this game, they wouldn't have been on this podcast😂, they would have been with flats & others😂. I am also a diamond btw but subscribe to the mental of my ball guy on the comfy chair....I see the hypocrisy in my statement but I am not the one telling others to play good in order to climb. I don't see why can't they just humble themselves & listen to the top 500 who has climbed out of you peak. My guy Bame has the best mental out of these 3. Strive to be Kev in order to climb rather than depend on Kev to climb.

[@comd.shepard]

If Kev & I are on a team, we win every game .....not because I am cracked on Tracer but because Kev is the Goat.

[@shioramenrabbit]

Loved this podcast. As a quick note about LFG - honestly, I loved the idea of it, I really miss playing in stacks from early OW1. However, my general experience with LFG is that a lot of the time, it was like you'd get in there and have to essentially interview (super lame after a long day of work) and it was just really not that enjoyable. Also, as a mid-rank female player, there were some really weird people in there. Like really weird. The hill I will die on is they should've, literally years ago, worked on creating a guild system. Like I don't want to have to reinvent the wheel and meet new people and have them judge me every time I want to play 3 games or so stacked.

[@sarunir1]

Bronze is like 1-1499. It's basically a bottomless pit. You now how in the ocean if you go deep enough, the pressure just pushes you down and you can no longer just float to the top? Like that. So, basically the skill range in Bronze is very large.

[@johnmetzakis2910]

so some differences I didnt hear mentioned about the lower ranks is the speed, of the game is slower, through time to kill being longer because of poorer aim as well as reaction time to plays and positioning. the hell that is bronze in particular comes from being mixed in with players that play and dont care, smurfs and leavers have the greater impact. solo groups vs a co-ordinated stack, combined with a match loss feeling more punishing than a win does. so it might take 60 wins to get out of b5 but just 5 losses straight to dump you back down to start over. unless you are a natural fps god. once you get out of bronze its like a weight is lifted, games feel much better cue time quicker, as you feel like you are with people that want to be there. the side effect i think is having experienced it, It must corrupt you as you have to train yourself to not get tilted, at a loss.

[@DjNaste]

You really don't need to be an FPS God to get out of bronze.

[@Anewlevel0091]

Thanks for the representation everyone! I'm also glad to see the respect and sorrow expressed for all of the layed off devs jobs. Seeing some of the comments from the call of duty side are so sad. They're people too who probably have families to support. They don't deserve to get shit on like that.... Great episode SVB

[@GeorgeElEmery]

Silver 2 here. I feel like the girls are too focused on the meta. I believe the other content creators I've heard say that us in the metal ranks don't\can't play the meta correctly, and it's more important to just play your hero well.

[@GayestWinston]

Great episode!

[@mitchconner6316]

Those players who watch gm one tricks and try to mimic their playstyle will get ranked accordingly tho. If someone wants to one trick DPS Moira, they will provide a certain level of value. If it is less than the average support at that rank, the DPS Moira player will de rank until an equilibrium is reached where they are providing an appropriate amount of value for the rank they are in. So it doesn't make sense to criticize those players because they will be ranked exactly where they need to be

[@drln1ghthaunter]

1:43:40 Is so relatable. I enjoyed group content back when I played WoW but overwatch has never been able to break through my natual aversion to socialising with people I don't know. Maybe because there was more casual, chilled content to initially build those relationships and higher barriers to entry for the end game PvE content which required forming a group and going to the locations. OW2 you can seemlessly access everything with no barriers. If comp forced grouping or if there was more community building in game to build those bonds and encourage grouping up then maybe.

[@willywonka00]

I'm someone who's been from bronze to Plat in Tank support n DPS and I can tell you. The main problem is that majority of people do not care to try to rank up in lower ranks. Half the time you feel like you are fighting agaisnt your own team. They play like they do not care. And the only way to really rank up is to play your hardest. Even when it looks like you're going to lose. because you will pull some of the games out and win. The problem is sometimes you don't pull the games out, and even though you try so hard. Even though someone on your team is just giving no care. Not swapping, constantly feeding etc. Even if your in coms and asking them to please help. They just dont care about even trying. So you have to try extremely hard and then still lose. All the while, some of your teammates dont care. It feels self Defeating, and pointless. you lose all hope you don't feel like playing and it's not fun, and so you give up. Or you play hundreds of games. At which point it's better to create an alt account and just place at a higher rank.

[@OO-il6sl]

Agreed, people act like oh although account won't save you, but it does, give you another chance after years of sadness lol this game was meant for teamplay and they've forced individualism, this is the result

[@willywonka00]

​@@OO-il6sl Agrees. Took so many games to get to plat from bronze. And had terrible losing streaks. Even though i did well as i could. Took me a 4th of the time to create an alt account and place plat out of placement matches in a 4th of the time.

[@jaedengarcia8249]

You laid out your biggest problem and I couldn't help but notice that it totally reflects cuppcaakes mental on the game that she laid out at the beginning of the podcast

[@willywonka00]

@jaedengarcia8249 It's not "my" biggest problem. It's the problem with the comp design and match making. People can play how they want. Some one wants o play mercy for example and not heal and run around with their gun is there any consequences? No there is not. So what does that Mean for you? Well, it means that you can try you absolute hardest to compensate and still win. And as slim as that chance is its possible. However, the feeling of losing and feeling like no matter how hard you tried it didn't matter because your mercy ran around with their pistol is not fun nor does it inspire most people to get better. What it does is frustrate you. There is a reason some one like myself. Who's gone to bronze to Plat in all roles. On a hard stuck account for years finally decided to just play through it, and climbed. After countless hours. Yet I can make an alt account and place plat in a quarter of the time. That's an inherently bad game and comp design.

[@OO-il6sl]

beautifully put and well-said, I agree wholeheartedly, I was hard stuck Gold OW1 on Hanzo getting all the picks, Hard stuck Plat in OW2, made a few new accounts became hard stuck Diamond, made one more, now Masters lol, it's a numbers game bc of the devs not pushing teamplay, but bullshit randomized luck involved based on who you get individualid solo Q's. Yes GM's get to their rank eventually because theyre that much better, but that means whoever isn't the top 1% deals with this shit due to simply not being able to carry EVERYONE.@@willywonka00

[@Youknowmikekhan]

Ty for the content SVB I was wondering when the next group up was coming and I got surprised last night. Saved it for my chore day today. Is there a schedule for group up or is it vaguely twice-once ish a month?

[@jonlucas22]

13 days SVB i need my favorite podcast

[@SPKRFCKR1]

Subbed, SVB speaks really well on the topics covered.

[@therealzahyra]

Great to see this podcast! Great step in the right direction!

[@shoppingcart238]

Great to see how spread out ur guests are, Bame1 the legend himself

[@roguedeathangel]

I've never really tried to climb and I've been Gold Console for the last 6 years. Its honestly the best rank, you can just play whatever Hero you want.

[@BeforeThisNovember]

I’d have to agree. OW1 I was always focused on trying to rank up. Was Plat for the majority and touched Diamond for a lil while. Let me tell you, Diamond is STRESSFUL. A complete different world to Plat. Plat is like Gold with more flamers and more people who think they’re solo carrying when they’re really not. OW2 I’m “hard stuck” Gold because 1) I don’t have much desire to put too much effort anymore 2) it’s a way more chill/fun experience. The only thing I miss is at least the ATTEMPT as some synergy and coordination. But you get more plays yourself so it’s a worth it trade.

[@nephilim475]

Imo you can play anything you want up until low top 500, very high top 500 is where meta picks are almost always a must pick

[@buffhorses3632]

Why are you playing comp then? If youre just playing what you want regardless of situation/meta youre soft throwing other peoples games who do want to climb.

[@BeforeThisNovember]

@@buffhorses3632 how tf is it throwing to play at the level you’re ranked as?

[@shinysableyes]

@@buffhorses3632 if someone is genuinely good enough to climb out of a rank, they’ll climb regardless of other players and who they’re playing. To say it’s soft throwing is ridiculous

[@johnnellas8687]

Ive been watching groop up for a while and i absolutely find it intresting to listen to really good players opinions but they are hard to relate to because top 500's and gms are the rarest people so bringing people that are lower down on the ladder were verry relatable in my opinion, also the game is verry one sided always when you come up against someone who is clearly not ment to be in the rank that you que up in but thats the least of your problems. The amount of losses i have just because the tank left and we just insta loose is insane thats an issue of 5v5 or more like an issue of the developers that havent made some sort of compenasation for players that loose a tank ... for example you could have a system in place that when you do loose a tank the game just ends automaticaly and you get like a draw or something cause its really unfair to just get a loss without even having a chance. SVB these podcasts make some good points and i find them really intresting so thank you for it. looking forward to the next one :)

[@KingOfNebbishes]

When I hear a person say "I used to be GM/Master but games are more fun down in Plat," it just sounds like they want easier games. Of course, the poor bastard who has to legit sweat just to get to Plat has to sit there and suffer through GM's halfassing in their games for "fun," and then a lot of times, when they don't just bully the board by existing, they get mad and then they jump on their GM main and destroy people. If you don't want to sweat and you don't want to play against people in your peak rating, just stick to QP. Stay out of lower ranked games. No one wants you or needs you there.

[@lruddy8820]

Or it shows ppl can peak above their skill level with one good win streak

[@goldfishtoast]

Early overwatch 1 gm was like high gold today until people learned the game, thats what she is talking about

[@KingOfNebbishes]

@@goldfishtoast Knowing a bunch of the people who played OW1 in those early days, I have to laugh. Lot of people who were on actual teams in other games came to Overwatch and tons of them did stuff to play on beta like buying/renting keys. It wasn't 100% solved, but the skill level was MUCH MUCH higher than Gold today.

[@BasicSneedEducation]

Quick play is just as bad as comp. QP uses your MMR for matchmaking.

[@lruddy8820]

@@BasicSneedEducation why wouldnt it use your MMR, every online game ive played has some sort of MMR or skill based match making

[@ErrorCarry]

The introduction aways cracks me up 😂😂😂😂😂

[@banan9377]

Suggestions for getting more "random" metal rank players, perhaps try reaching out to trusted content creators who might have their own trusted discord mods or community members who are metal ranked.

[@blahtheotter1512]

1:10:00 I think people who want a competitive mode should just play competitive. This type of mentality should be discouraged heavily in the community, if you want to be competitive go play with a ranking system so the matches can be as fair as possible. That's it.

[@Sizzyl]

finally someone with a brain

[@scarecr0w630]

Haven't even watched it yet and kiwi is quite possibly the worst choice svb could've made for this podcast. We will NEVER FORGET rein Hammer doing less damage than torb Hammer. Smh Edit: look I'm not a fan of unranked to gm either, but Bogurs unranked to gm on life weaver was INSPIRATIONAL. kiwi did NOT need to call him out like that. Poor taste kiwi. Poor taste. Not to mention she put "brig" and "bad heros" in the same sentence. Literally never cook again.

[@ROBAKABIGPAPA]

This^

[@KingOfNebbishes]

I remember when that pro experimental argument was streamed and it was suggested Mei should get an increase in her secondary ammo because no one on the stage had ever touched Mei or knew her abilities. Then they set themselves up as arbiters of balance. GTFOOH.

[@theprometheu5]

She's right tho, you are just not willing to listen.

[@RowanokeWoW]

Hmmm I don’t think she was a bad choice. I mean the point was to get the perspectives of metal rank players right? If anything her balance changes back then are the perfect example of why balance is so difficult. Players from all different ranks are gonna give you all different answers. A lot of them are not good. Personally I miss the experimental card to try more shit like that. Also to be fair she didn’t directly call out Bogur she just said lifeweaver. She’s also not wrong, he was so weak at the time that even a player as good as Bogur had such a difficult time with UR2GM. Now imagine other people not as good trying to do it. I think that’s the point she was getting at. At least that’s how I interpreted it. Players do try to emulate higher rank players and brig is also a perfect example of a hero that lower rank players throw on. She’s definitely not a bad hero though lol.

[@mycelia_ow]

Cuppcaake talking about a new mode has already been tried by Valve with CS2. CSGO had casual and competitive, but CS2 introduced a new mode called Premier. Normal comp is now the more casual mode, and "Casual" is even more casual. It seems to be working well, CS2 is also 5v5 and queue times don't seem too bad despite the game using maps for queue instead of rotating map pools like OW2. Wouldn't surprise me if OW2 gets a similar queue system in the future.

[@Jessespresso]

I like how Lemon says she's comfortable with her rank but she's so salty when talking about the unranked to gm thing. Like you **can** beat them and yet she's happy when they're on her team lmao. Pretty contradictory, is she comfortable in plat or not?

[@lruddy8820]

MURICA working as intended with the 1900 layoffs

[@andrewbesenyi3231]

My thing about unranked to GM, wouldn’t it effect gm queue times? Filling up GM with basically bot accounts? Bc you can only play on 1 at a time. Like awkward has 8 accounts sitting in gm not being played on.

[@mamboonthetube7652]

That’s not how queue times work but I see your question. Queues are just pulling from currently-online players who are looking for a game, it doesn’t matter how many inactive accounts there are or how many alt accounts someone has, they aren’t affecting queues at all unless someone is actively playing it, which in theory only shortens queue times

[@Cms7899]

​​@@mamboonthetube7652No, I think they may have a point. If there's a lot of inactive accounts in GM, this effectively shrinks the player base even further. Essentially these inactive accounts are taking the place of someone who may be on the edge of masters/GM. I don't think it makes a big difference, but the more inactive accounts in GM the longer the queue will be theoretically due to a decreased number of active, available players.

[@OO-il6sl]

​@Cms7899 they should just do a mail system, gotta verify through mail like you're a business 😂

[@mamboonthetube7652]

@@Cms7899 oooh I see it now. I still don’t think it’d affect queue times though, but it does limit rank distribution I guess yeah

[@corenchidori]

diamond higher than about 82% of the rest of player base, so top 18% of players

[@TheMatrixxProjekt]

Next podcast should be with quick play warriors and reflect on how the current rank system make some players not really want to play ranked. And then redo the same topic and see how it changed a couple weeks into season 9 after the ranked changes.

[@lruddy8820]

as a main tank in metal ranks i find LemonKiwi to be way off on the ppl expect the tank to hold W, usually what happens is i hold W my team holds S and i get flamed for feeding when my team wont move passed a choke and as i tank im moving passed the choke to make space for my team to then pass thru, no one wants me to hold W then want me to me their bullet sponge

[@Yunche17]

Yea as someone who flexes all roles, it is frustrating when you’re trying to make space as a tank and your team wants you to hug them the entire match

[@TevinMachart-pc5wy]

Post your overwatch comp timeline below! I want to hear about when you started, what characters you learned, what you missed, peak ow seasons, ect Thank you! ❤

[@SpekUL8Gaming]

i barely made it to plat and i wanna go back to gold already

[@wankerwacker7948]

same, i feel like the jump from gold 1 and plat 5 is larger than most. i just go from carry to getting my shit pushed in in the span of 8 games lmao

[@BasicSneedEducation]

I made it to GM and wish I was bad at the game. I had more fun back then.

[@sxrk-]

@@BasicSneedEducationsame bro. I hit GM1/T500 but nothing beats the days when i used to 5 stack w my friends in plat.

[@adarshvinodkumar6333]

That feeling never changes. I just made it to GM5 after hovering in high Masters for a while and GOD the games are so crazy fast.

[@forthe3136]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@sxrk-fax even though those were the sweatiest games it was fun talking shit to the homies when someone sold🤣🤣

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

Gotta agree gold and below has 0 foundation on team play and it defeats the entire purpose of Overwatch

[@seanqwe100]

as a person that ques with friends in plat diamond. smurfing is very common, less then a 100 hours controlling the lobby with a mercy pocket duo. I think its due to smurfs grouping for rank restrictions and not solo queing, not for unranked to gm streams

[@bioniclelegend7]

Loved hearing from people who are in metal and actually seeing what most people see. Feel bad for bame being stuck playing ball in metal. Hopefully the rework is good for ball.

[@steveskywalker25]

I'm just suggesting Maybe if losses didn't have any effect on ranking up and just putting players with as accurate as possible mmr then we be more calm since loses aren't a problem with mmr rank ups

[@shazzy84]

LOL look at SVB's face at some of the comments of his guests! He's like "OMG..." - love the guests btw - But given their questions, it's obvious they really know very little how to play the game...so their rank makes sense. These guest often times blame their teammates instead of taking accountability. It's always their teammates fault, or someones smurfing, or its their lack of mechanical skills or no communication. And they flame others for wanting to rank up and do better. It's insane that most players think like this. This is ALL COPE. Plus that Lemon kiwi girl is really rude to be on her phone or doing whatever she is doing as he is conducting an interview.

[@strangejune]

As a Brig main I love playing with a good Ball, it might be my favorite tank to see on my team. Call me crazy, I know.

[@DrUmEr7137]

Would be great two have one or two of these guys with flats or samito to really compare and contrast

[@kennethbontempo1031]

As far as elo hell goes: In a solo queue scenario, you would want to be evaluated based on individual performance rather than the (team you get placed on)'s performance. The technology just isn't there or isn't being implemented. So you're actually being evaluated on your ability to be on the winning team. So I guess find a way to also train your charisma / leadership / communication to climb without being obnoxious/toxic.

[@samuelcoupland1658]

Pretty sure they said LFG went as it needed to be rebuilt for the new engine, and it wasnt a priority

[@Sizzyl]

:(

[@acrobatmapping]

If hamster was meta, ppl would complain. It's kind of like making doomfist meta. People would throw a fit.

[@hoolly]

the problem about average stats in any rank is that the stats of a single game is not representive for anyone cause if you have a rein as a ana you can farm the healstats pretty damn good if you have a ball in your game - your heal numbers would be probably not the same and have more dmg you would have both numbers and its the situation which tells the secret of the number so its kinda hard to average out a single game sadly also i actually dont think "Guides" would really help cause Overwatch is so situational thats pretty damn hard i mean you have basic stuff like highground and so but thats also kinda situational (against widow/hanzo *cough*)

[@jkvltra804]

If cupcake wanted to she could get out of plat if you guys didnt know

[@eggsngaming]

1:52:56 this is my exact mentality when it comes to ranked and I've enjoyed playing comp so much more because of it. I don't have aspirations of getting beyond the metal ranks because honestly, I have a ton of fun in gold/plat and I don't need to be in the top 10% or 15% of the playerbase or whatever.

[@Kildain717]

I just found this podcast recently so if it’s been done already, my bad, but as a console only player, I would love to see and hear more from other console players.

[@BasicSneedEducation]

I thought that was Freedo at first glance

[@J.R.Swish1]

Im gonna be honest, as someone who was in the metal ranks for a good time as well, i dont relate to a lot of these. But i understand them. Personally, what i hate the most about the metal ranks, is how RNG they are. Plat is literally a mix and match of silver and masters players, and everything in between. And thousands of GMs off-roling too. I wish the matchmaker was narrower, but then the queue times would suffer.

[@LeSobaMask]

This is just wrong. Plat matchmaking is not silvers and masters. its one of the most populated ranks therefore its the easiest to matchmake equal ranks.

[@TheNerd]

06:00 I think the most frequent comment I got (in plat) was "hang yourself on the ceiling". And guess what: Not a single player got banned, because in reality Blizzard doesn't really care about toxicity, which is ultimately why I switched to FF 14. The community in FF is the exact opposite of LoL, Overwatch, WoW etc. The difference is so enormous, FF14 doesn't even have an ingame report button to report "toxicity". If someone gets toxic in FF14, that person gets bullied for beeing toxic by other players...

[@criimsontale]

I completely disagree with Cupcakee's experience in regards to toxicity when playing on ladder. I found it to be way more relaxing and chill when I managed to climb to high elo lobbies than in the metal ranks where everyone thinks they know better but they don't.

[@maxpanther2082]

I am playing Overwatch on European servers since Season 2 of Overwatch 1. I can count the number of matches where my team did try to coordinate of voice on my two hands. I am not sure how it looks like in the US though.

[@ashy3340]

I always thought it was medal rank, as in medals in athletics, (gold, silver, bronze). But I guess they use metal to include platinum

[@khblack1572]

This! I've been bronze for 2 years in OW1 and it's straight up hell. Now plat, I feel very competitive (don't like QP) and I enjoy where I'm at at the same time so Cuppcake's words really resonate with me

[@masterjanglez]

The overlay program was a real thing. Im pretty sure it was a Philadelphia fusion minor league affiliated program. I used it for the 3-4 weeks we were able to. It was such a game changer. It helped so much. It was in 2018.

[@endless_del]

there was a 3rd party software that gave you additional information about your stats and stuff back in overwatch 1. it got banned by blizzard because it worked in real time, and even tracked enemy ult charge so it was rightly considered an unfair advantage like aimbot/walls

[@AnimeOtaku56.]

I just want to let everyone know that it’s ok to say “Join TC Please.” I say that before every comp game and I usually have people join. They might not have a mic or want to talk but at least they can hear callouts. Try to keep communication low tho. What you want to do is mark your death, keep moral up, let people know about the plays you’re making(typical who you’re focusing), and tracking important cooldowns. P.S. please use the ping system whether or not you have a mic. The ping system is very good at keeping track of enemies and marking where you want to go.

[@ALongrunner]

So much toxicity, why even risk it in QP. Comp sure, but honestly I get way more from pings than comms, as strategy is almost never discussed in team chat.

[@AnimeOtaku56.]

@@ALongrunner I don’t do this in qp. I still feel like people don’t ping enough in comp. It sucks the ping system is great.

[@willtrego]

Loving the podcast! Sadly, a lot of tech companies have been doing layoffs recently throughout the past year.

[@navebucketdude]

My silver experience is that quote “if we are going to lose I’m going to live” so many times I just watch my team feed and leave sight lines to die and then I just go back to spawn and hope this time they don’t die lol. My aim is quite poor so I can’t make plays but I always have the least amount of deaths on the team by a large margin.

[@josephreynolds2401]

It's funny. Playing this way opens yourself up to dead players flaming the only person alive as the camera shows them in a conservative position. I've gotten "afk" accusations on Push too many times to count from stagger feeders. Some push games I don't even get to play because it's perpetually 5 vs 1-4.

[@Vastspartan]

I'm usually the last one alive because I know when a situation is about to be flipped. I can tell when it's the right time to run away.

[@johnmckill6003]

@@josephreynolds2401 staying alive doesnt mean much if you didnt actually do anything lol

[@josephreynolds2401]

@@johnmckill6003 Being perpetually dead is always more unfavorable than "doing nothing" by attempting a regroup. The alive player is trying, and trying in a way that isnt throwing. The dead player is throwing the match if they didn't trade value synced with their team's uptime because they give enemies ult charge and map control. The survivor takes some downtime to have more relevant uptime and establishes map control on their teams terrain. If you're referring to players that don't commit with their team, that is another topic entirely. If you want to be taken seriously then make a more serious rebuttal. lol

[@johnmckill6003]

@@josephreynolds2401 if you are playing a perpetual 4v5 sounds like its you the one not doing anything. Can already guess your rank since you default to blaming your team mates

[@skeeteronthewater1568]

Biggest issue in metal ranks is trickling dude and its not even close. I cant tell you how many times people run straight in on respawn when the whole fight just ended and bam they are dead like legit they give up 3 to 5 deaths in a game that are just them 1 v 5 because they sprint out of spawn 😊

[@Sizzyl]

6:12 I'd say gold is that rank for me, but plat is fair enough.

[@TiagoMorbusSa]

what a nice group of people

[@vaultbunny7496]

Just got to the end.Is SVB not doing a ranked gauntlet anymore :(

[@insomniaddictesp]

Really looking to see what the response is from Phil, I think everyone was looking forward to Blizzard moving to what seemed like an owner that would help, and this layoff doesn’t feel like help.

[@undyne6280]

It’s normal in acquisitions. There was a lot of overlapping jobs and someone had to go. (There’s other reasons too) But if Phil wasn’t trying to make the company better and turn out bigger profits, he wouldn’t have spent so much on ActiBlizz. It’s just gonna take a WHILE to feel the full effects of being acquired. Probably around 2 years. Until then, things will feel stagnant or shit. Microsoft also don’t the only company that just dropped a ton of workers. So did Riot and some other companies. Just helps with the quarterly unfortunately :/ And even if it SUCKS that Kotick got a big payout. It’s way better with him being gone, even if it’s sucks and hurts :/

[@pav5971]

Diamond tank here. Cant get out of gold with dps,supports. Not as good.but leavers etc should atleast be plat.

[@SlipperySnake321]

I wish the guests had stronger opinions on balance. I think often those at lower ranks are hesitant to have balance takes because they always get shouted down with "get good". I just wish there was more talk about remakes like Mercy. Bame1 touched on it a bit but the goal for metal ranks should be a fun game. In order to get there I think you need to prioritize skills that are fun being the ones that win you games. Just to show the contrast, on Plat Chat Johnny and Hawk thought group respawn was a super dumb idea. However that has the potential to just significantly make fights more fun for lower ranks. Grouping up isn't really a fun skill to get better at. I believe it is the same with ultimate tracking. There are all these kind of tedious garbage 'skills' that I don't think should be core the gameplay for low level players. If higher level players like not being able to see their opponents ults or spawning separately fine add a cutoff. Diamond or Masters and above they have the current system. I think it is kind of dumb to dump all these mechanics on your average Joe.

[@josephreynolds2401]

Grouping up IS the game though. I see both sides. Metal ranks that lose games solely because they don't reset probably don't need more handholding mechanics. Overwatch maps are pretty textbook. The Art of War is thousands of years old and easy to read.

[@SlipperySnake321]

@@josephreynolds2401 I think you kind of made my point for me. Grouping up has become the game. Do you find that fun? I got to say I really don't find it all that fun. I just disagree with you on Overwatch map complexity completely. The sheer amount of modes and maps in the game asks a ton from players, maybe more than any other shooter. As for The Art of War, reading it confirmed my beliefs about it. It is basically an empty authority vessel with enough platitudes so that people can use them however they like. If The Art of War didn't exist and came out 5 years ago not a single person would know of it. The only reason it is relevant is its age and the perceived authority that comes from it. It is similar to people using what the game is to justify what is should be. The old philosophy chestnut is right here. You can't derive and ought from an is.

[@josephreynolds2401]

@@SlipperySnake321 Grouping up IS the game. It's a team game. Always has been. Always will be. When it's free for all deathmatch as standard, then it will no longer be a team game. Mechanics ARE the game. You're saying you play the team game like it's not a team game. So you're knowingly not interfacing with 4 of the people. You think the mechanics are too hard or too tricky for the majority of players. Do you realize what position that puts you in? You're projecting your mental mode onto a host of people that mostly disagree with you. Your stance contradicts the entire game. If people can learn Lucio rollouts they can learn to look at their teammates IN A TEAM GAME!!! Put away the sado-masochism, please. You're not a tough guy. You're just lonely.

[@SlipperySnake321]

@@josephreynolds2401 Lol that got weirdly personal fast. Are you trying to reply to someone else? You are backwards on so many things it is kind of hard to know where to start. Here is a quick list: 1. Group Respawn wouldn't make Overwatch more deathmatchy it would do the opposite. 2. Group Respawn wouldn't make Overwatch less of a team game, you would be with you team more not less. 3. Plenty of team games already have group respawn. Is English not your first language? Are you high responding here? What's going on?

[@raxusquin]

Love these takes, but the ability to cast an ow league match isnt exactly one to one with knowing what youre doing all the time in game. Castors get roasted by pros in every franchise with a pro scene lmao. Its not a pass to understanding all the bigger nuances of the game.

[@jksoftware1]

I still say the people on this episode are ranked too high to represent the "Metal Ranks" and more represent the in-between Metal Ranks and high-level GM play. When most of them have been up to masters that does not count. Only one person here has even been in bronze, so they don't represent me or the rank I play at. (Note: i'm not in bronze now but use to be)

[@BeforeThisNovember]

I’d have to agree. OW1 I was always focused on trying to rank up. Was Plat for the majority and touched Diamond for a lil while. Let me tell you, Diamond is STRESSFUL. A complete different world to Plat. Plat is like Gold with more flamers and more people who think they’re solo carrying when they’re really not. OW2 I’m “hard stuck” Gold because 1) I don’t have much desire to put too much effort anymore 2) it’s a way more chill/fun experience. The only thing I miss is at least the ATTEMPT at some synergy and coordination. But you get more plays yourself so it’s a worth it trade. Although it does seem you only win a game if you carry it.

[@TerryBenner]

Bane is right. I was laid off once and it sucked. This is no surprise though given the merger. Those in positions of responsibility need to go through the list of employees and determine areas of overlap and duplication and then rank the performance of all to try and make the best decision possible. I have had to do this and it is always hard.

[@strawberrydialectics]

also amazing seeing cupcaake here. i used to watch her sooo much in ow1 when i used twitch more often. love her!!

[@blucioow9354]

this was refreshing. it was nice to hear from the metal ranks

[@Dezatron-]

I just say this. You might be a higher rank with one character. But it shouldn't mean you have to switch to diff always. Especially in qp. Because you need experience to actually get better

[@scarecr0w630]

Kiwis best take was when she took her leave

[@Vastspartan]

Huh?

[@ROBAKABIGPAPA]

Crazy to think Kiwi controlled a patch and how insane those changes were. Metal Ranks really are chaos incarnate.

[@Vastspartan]

The worst patch. She made tank changes as a diamond support.

[@smallertoast8806]

​@@VastspartanWhy is it the worst patch

[@IHJello]

When they talked about Rein v Ball on KR really highlights how the change from OW1 to OW2 went unnoticed. The difference in 2 tanks to 1 tank changes tank value so much.

[@megaleuzao]

I feel represented

[@thesquirtlesquad8446]

2:05:00 Lemonkiwi - Yes! Preach, I play mostly Rein in Diamond and it is a weight off my shoulders when my backline can let me know what is going on behind me while I hold the line. It helps you measure if you can aggress or not or even block heals for a dive if you can’t provide peel. ❤️ to the Ana stans