The Great Season 4 Patch Debate feat. Flats, Samito & Freedo

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 07/04/23. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not check out SVB's stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_) or other content on his main (youtube.com/@SVBOW) or second KZbin channel the SVB-Side (www.youtube.com/@SVB-Side ) The best way to support my content is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-season-4-patch-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@rurutuM]

maybe Blizzard wants new player to experience goats that's from over 4 years ago

[@irfbjifi3rufbui3bf35]

Its bot july yet

[@videoguy102020]

Can we get some more positive creators on the next one. Fareeha was a breath of fresh air. Flats seems burnt out, and it's depressing when Sam and Flats go on a roll of negativity. Games in a decent spot imo, and it's just a bummer to watch 4 hours of people that might be burnt out complain about every little thing. 2 Season ago I could understand, but damn, the game is halfway in a decent state.

[@christopherhelton3372]

as a gold player i didnt know Anas sleep dart lasted more than 1 second of course my team always wakes them up instantly.

[@TheNerd]

So here is the reality: In Bronze - Plat, Lifeweaver is going to be absolutely useless. Even more useless than old Sombra was. a) Players are going to pull the wrong targets at the wrong time (like bad ana nade usage), that flower is 200% useless for all the reasons you can think off. The only MAYBE is to use it as an escape tool c) lifeweavers are going to die A LOT aka they will grant enemeis a lot of healing c) since up until Diamond Bastion Torb, Sym, Junk and Reaper are must pick meta, the tree is a useless tool aswell. It will die in seconds. In other words: Lifeweaver is useless for all ranks below grandmasters.

[@creeyis5092]

Flats and Samito are going to do the fusion dance and fucking lose it

[@askers_]

Sam's about to get high cholesterol and heart disease if they fuze

[@wthrmn87]

Sam looks like mini Flats. Flats Minor?

[@askers_]

@@wthrmn87 I think you mean diet flats.

[@majdhashem8024]

@@askers_ 💀💀💀😭

[@wthrmn87]

@@askers_ Flats Lite?

[@TheSquishy88]

I think the idea of pressing a button to break the life grip is much better than pressing a button to confirm it, it let's it keep the instant use capability but still gives them a way to get out of it.

[@someGuy-kl7cb]

interact key would make the most sense to prevent any accidental breaks.

[@MefoWho]

imagine pulling a tank over the illios well, whoops my fat finger pressed the button midway, sorry.

[@Atlas13331]

@@MefoWho I think they mean that the person getting pulled can break it by pressing interact and not the lifeweaver

[@thawingkarma233]

@@Atlas13331 You would still have to react quickly to it, and I don’t think if you’re in the middle of a fight you would want more pressure by having to deal with pressing a button when your Lifeweaver pulls you in when you don’t even know when he will pull you in to begin with.

[@kylesmith987]

Honestly the interact key to break the ability is a much worse solution. You have to take into account reaction time to break it. Lets use an example. Say I'm rein and earth shatter the enemy and get life gripped at that moment I that need to react the jarring situation of me being pulled out of nowhere with a button press. Lets say I react to it at the average human reaction time of 200ms which is still incredibly fast (this will not be the average time it actually takes people to react to it due other variables). You will still be half way between the point you were and where you got life gripped too which means your entire ulti is still wasted as you most likely will not be able to get back into position in time to follow up on the play. Interacting to accept the pull is a significantly better solution but honestly the best solution is to remove the ability entirely and give life weaver a different ability all together. Life grip is not a good ability in an FPS that requires insanely fast reactions and split second decision making. We also DO NOT need more invulnerabilities to constantly bail people out of mistakes making the game more and more frustrating to play as it feels like you cannot capitalize on mistakes nearly as much anymore.

[@kingtswasey]

SVB is such a good moderator

[@nuclearsimian3281]

He really is, its why I can keep watching these while I don't even play the game and am waiting for the PVE.

[@alexrivera633]

Yeah he’s very very good at what he does

[@mak10123]

He's actually incredible. I've been very impressed with his ability to direct conversation while still allowing everyone to express themselves and get their takes in without ever feeling isolated.

[@ZingyCreature2]

The best

[@tryingtochangemyways5074]

I am sure he enjoys seeing people repeat this in comments everytime a vid is posted

[@trevorberry548]

Rarely comment and I see this repeated all the time, but SVB is in his own league of moderating the podcast. You can tell prior the love and time and prep he puts into his work. Passion always shows!

[@philipjennings4664]

Flats is just so clearly burnt out on Overwatch. Dude needs to just take a break because he’s never happy

[@rhysthomas1629]

I couldn't agree more , the dudes always moaning. His blood pressure must be sky high

[@zc8673]

For real. I hope he takes a break, cuz I'm tired of everyone parroting his cynical views

[@itzpurple_queen9711]

@@BigglesandScratchy gfys

[@BigglesandScratchy]

@@itzpurple_queen9711 nah rather do your mum...

[@muckdriver]

I mean for someone on tank(and sometimes dps) role I can not blame him to an extent outside of playing too much. around the hour mark the point of it being tiring having to be the one swapping 90% of the time when the mercy and kiriko can use ana and win us the fight with anti-nades or something and being lucky to get supports that swap.

[@KetchumUnderarock]

Really glad freedo and svb keep the optimism and different perspective in mind

[@NolansGoons]

I can't believe it, but somehow Overwatch has managed to make Flats even more miserable than the last time he was on this program where his main talking point was how he's gotten bored with the game, all in the span of one patch-notes preview no less

[@ProfDCoy]

Yeah, I think the prospect of another years-long Brig meta broke something in his brain. I get it. I mostly feel the same way.

[@IGniTo100]

Sam and Flats going ballistic over Brig 🤣

[@MatthewOceanXVX]

Super pathetic honestly lol.

[@tankbeast8480]

Cry babies

[@mabbaa]

Its the trauma... I still remember

[@terogates1]

It’s actually overkill the reaction to it, never watched samis content but I kinda don’t want to now after that, sounded like all the people complaining about the life weaver ability when the devs made it impossible to purposefully kill your teamate, But I’m sorry at the levels my friends are at I’m happy brig is more viable now, considering when I flex I get support 75 percent of the time I want a tank support to play, my main role I love is tank, this brig isn’t as strong as that nightmare brig. Plain and simple

[@FernandoLopez-jg2gx]

It literally sounded like a group therapy with both of them repeating how traumatized they are Lol, reason why i dont watch flatts, the man can't stop complaining.

[@YazzPott]

Flats genuinely needs to take a break from the game. He is SO angry, in a way Ive been with games I love before. I respect his opinions, a lot, but like, when I heard him say the pharah jump jet directional input was horrible for the game. I knew he's a little too far into the doomium sauce. He spent all of season 3 complaining that everything was a bad choice, when genuinely it has been one of the best, well balanced periods of overwatch in forever.

[@jm0112]

Yeah falts needs to play something else. I hope he's okay.

[@hongomybongo9684]

I’ll be back to this comment when every game has brig in it.

[@jm0112]

@@hongomybongo9684 We get a patch like every 3 weeks if this is an issue it will get fixed. Cry about it.

[@nickcoulter1556]

The recent patch notes has been almost completely an L on all fronts... if Flats was mad last season I bet this might be the season he kicks the bucket on Overwatch

[@hongomybongo9684]

@@jm0112 looking at all your comments on this channel all you do is cry. You’ll get out of gold one day little buddy.

[@secretlyaslug2325]

Gotta be totally honest. A 2 hour segment on Brig is too much. I get Samito and Flats hate her but it's a little excessive. The patch isn't even out yet and they're overracting. Freedo is the only realistic take on this when it comes to new heros are the dramatic shifts that new heros have and do make.

[@ljb5163]

I think the whole point of the Brig change was to make her live up to her role. She was always meant to be the tanky support. So they basically made her ult her becoming a tank and it’s unique to her.

[@TheDevos1]

Agree..I think it’s so cool that she becomes a mini tank it really makes her even more like what she was created to be. ( and it being on the ult is a great way to not make her that annoying.)

[@darthnick427]

While that is true, the last time they made her a tanky support was release Brig and she killed the game. So I understand the concerns with making her ult effectively release brig again.

[@shioramenrabbit]

@@darthnick427 True, but also the game isn't the same as it was. Four major changes have happened since we had that Brig. 1) Role Lock. 2) 5v5 and specifically down to 1 tank (not all of which have shields). 3) 2CP has exited the chat 4) A huge number of heroes added to the game that are either effective counters to her, or just straight up don't care about her presence. Also, let's be real, people don't play stacked in 5v5 which is not a "nerf" to AoE heals, but AoE heals are generally less oppressive in OW2. Push straight up shouldn't be played stacked on point, payload and hybrid maps are rarely played with the team stacked on point except on maps where flyer and sniper comps are suboptimal, which leaves KOTH as the outlier and yeah, if they get set up on there it's trouble, but so is a wide range of other comps (turrets, mei, stall, etc).

[@biwitch6475]

Feels good having Freedo adding much more nuance and less personal affect to the discussion, he carried this episode tbh

[@tbagger5211]

Freedom understands it because he plays support as well .

[@konrah1486]

@@tbagger5211 So do Samito and SVB

[@oBlackIceo]

Freedo’s take on mercy was purely based on personal affect. Wym? “III can’t hit mercy, III can’t aim”

[@-.Outlaw.-]

He literally is the worst part of the show whenever he’s on lmao. He always tries to argue for the game being turned into fuckin Dota and it’s tragically annoying.

[@mabbaa]

Yah, the fact that it didn't feel personal to him and it did feel personal to sam and flats, it helped a lot.

[@GetQuakedOn]

great podcast as usual :)

[@LordOfWaffles32]

Glad you could watch, hope everything is going well with you Quake!

[@Scranimal]

I’d love to see you on this podcast

[@takaruku8128]

To be fair, this isn't old brig because it's not a stun perpetually every few seconds, it's a couple stuns every ultimate and although the ult is probably too strong, it's a big difference from having a stun always available, and having a stun as an ultimate basically

[@Kurse_of_Kall]

yeah, and the animation to start the ult *probably* limits how much you can activate and then interrupt things. You have to have Rally activated already, which means enemies are playing into it? Probably?

[@OmniJohnny]

The stun isn’t really the problem, it’s the MASSIVE sustain she provides for herself and others. 700 shield and instant armor health buff is ridiculous. Add everything else and she’s basically Brig 1.0 for the duration of Rally which is more than enough time to guarantee a fight win.

[@glasspaper3]

I think they should revert the 15% cost reduction rally got two patches ago

[@Kurse_of_Kall]

@@OmniJohnny Yeah. AOE Stun is going to be annoying, but whatever. It gives her a playmaking tool, but given that she has to rally to get it first, it requires good enough game sense due to the activation animation of rally, (you have to do it somewhat preemptively). Brig being literally unkillable during Rally is kinda dumb. It's not like a Zen trans where that's the point. Zen can't shoot during trans. Brig gets a shield, a stun, all of her normal damage and healing too? Folks have talked about how the meta won't be good for Brig anyways with Lifeweaver coming in and Ram/Rein being meta. But new Rally is bad design even if she isn't oppressive imo.

[@strangejune]

@@glasspaper3 They should just revert Brig to her season 1 state.

[@tristan6967]

Flats just sounds like he can’t cope with the fact that he might have to play other tanks against Brig comps

[@akshayakshay2081]

Bruh he doesn't even play ranked. He's so insufferable

[@LuciferCaido]

​@@akshayakshay2081 wat

[@konrah1486]

@@akshayakshay2081 Guy stops playing ranked for a week and the brain rot comes out “bruh he doesn’t even play ranked”

[@zairvix]

Every day I gotta find 8 hours worth of stuff to keep me entertained at work, this is such a blessing

[@pridas5202]

What do you do for work?

[@zairvix]

@@pridas5202 desk work lol, lots of typing but I'm free to listen to stuff

[@shamgar_6009]

I work night shift and have been burning out of stuff. Saw this video beginning of shift today and thanked the Lord I feel it!

[@zairvix]

@@shamgar_6009 hahaha we are the same ✨️

[@Thomas-zf6sl]

Dudes you need to Switch jobs

[@DrWavy-fq2qk]

Ik for a FACT this one bout to be HELLA interesting to listen to, and I can’t wait to hear it all

[@musicxxa6678]

nothing interesting just whining non stop for no reason at all. game just had it's best balanced season in it's history. these clowns doesnt know how brig plays and they think this is brig 1.0 and goat coming back etc. unhinged out of touched and bored streamers making ridiculous claims with confidence.

[@Daveyjonesvi]

@@musicxxa6678 right they only changed her ult which is like 10 seconds every two minutes or so. Her mid game fight is exactly the same. They are getting really annoying complaining about the dumbest things

[@HakktruRuinous]

@@musicxxa6678@DaveyJonesVI You're both part of the problem.

[@passadelirious]

​@@HakktruRuinous this comment right here is facts

[@BlazedKiller308]

​@@musicxxa6678if you don't see how the change is a problem then you're probably just bad at the game, idk what else to say

[@themostdop3533]

Just started listening but it does still feel like Sam never addressed the "Just an ult" thing properly and appreciate Freedo offering some points outside of the babyrage. "Brig can't be run down anymore, she just pops rally 100% the time because she has it 100% of the time". Because it really is just like a big turbo buff to her ultimate, but all the time outside of that phase she's regular Brig. Not to say I don't agree with him on how they should make her more intuitive and better designed to play with letting people see her huge AOE healing field from inspire. It's just like I do feel like her old rally ultimate was pretty mid in the OW2 environment. And honestly I don't really see why some good nerfs can't just bring her back in line in a later patch. If she does turn out to be unkillable you can do things like lower her armor or shield health etc. Letting her stun through barriers is pretty weird though.

[@ReaveIdono]

Letting her stun through barriers is not weird. She could do it back in OW1. Doom can punch through shield and stun as well. All melee skills hit through barriers.

[@reynauldwhistles2338]

@@ReaveIdono its weird because stunning through shields was a mistake thats why they changed it back then so ITS WEIRD that they are making that same mistake again.

[@ReaveIdono]

@@reynauldwhistles2338 I don't remember that tbh. It was probably a bandaid because she was a menace to the game since people didn't off angle much in OW1. They stood behind their two tanks.

[@ljb5163]

All melee stuns work through shields. That’s pretty normal.

[@themostdop3533]

@@ReaveIdono I know she could do it in 1 and that got removed pretty quickly. I think it's a bit different for brig because she protects herself while stunning so she has a leg up on someone like doom when trading their CD for a stun.

[@noahdtdog9082]

4 hours of Group Up? With Samito AND FREEDO (Welcome back Freedo, we missed you!) !?!? Lets heckin go!! Thanks as always SVB, can’t wait to listen! These always make my day, keep doing Gods work Edit: would love to see an episode with Sam, Freedo, and AVRL :P

[@glasspaper3]

Same lol...

[@nufcjoker9057]

I don’t like podcast with freedo he is quite obnoxious he speaks like he’s the voice of reason and he speaks like he thinks he knows the game better than everyone, barely ever criticise the game he just try to understand what the dev where trying to do even know some changes are bad , he’s just big headed with a big ego who would like everyone to have the same vision of the game it’s so annoying in my opinion , no hate just my opinion good day to all

[@fuscello]

@@nufcjoker9057 he understand the game better than 99% of players, he calls metas by just reading the patch notes. Getting him on this podcast is a gift to the discussion trust me

[@nufcjoker9057]

@@fuscello in your opinions I respectful agree to disagree good day to you

[@DeerestAshe]

@@nufcjoker9057 honestly i dont like when freedo is there either :/

[@LookinSuss38]

There should be someone on the panel that has only played the game since the launch of OW2. A lot of the topics have great points shared, but it would be nice to see things from the perspective of a newer player/content creator. In theory, some of these changes may be bad for the game, but all of the gloom and doom surrounding balance changes that the general player base has yet to experience does not help the game either. As a newer player myself, it’s almost impossible to find a content creator that is happy with the game. Meanwhile, everyone I know has been dropping their main games to play Overwatch.

[@WhatisaLee]

I don't need to have my feelings validated and the doomer takes are not influencing my enjoyment of the game, but it's nice to hear that other people are having fun too.

[@rayr40]

Hiimsky, emongg, ml7, eskay are all streamers who aren’t doomers.

[@dannyhernandez112]

There are plenty of old OW streamers who are positive and enjoying the game. You’re just watching the wrong ones. Also I’ve been playing OW since year 1 and I enjoy the game now. Not all old players hate the game. I was strongly against 1 tank but the game is still fun for me either way.

[@PainxSorrow]

Big mistake you will regret playing this game

[@CanADarkElfSayTheGamerWord]

I've been playing since ow 2 and I gotta say I strongly dislike how the supports have been overturned. While simple characters like Cassidy/McCree have been getting buff after buff and a more technical character like genji has been nerfed to the ground. I played mercy and Kiriko since the first season and it feels like their survivability is too strong especially for mercy who is an easy to pick up hero. I never believed that overwatch 2 was balanced because someone is always going to find something they dislike about the game. All of genji's counters have been getting buffs and genji never got any compensation buffs after the first season. Diving characters can feel like a death sentence because of all the power creep.

[@elkosins1686]

I’m fine with letting the devs have fun if they can always just change it next patch

[@mo_riz]

that’s the thing, they think this is a good patch and want to head in this direction of making every hero independent and able to do everything, especially supports. they WANT this to be in the game

[@lolicongang.4974]

​@@mo_riz n it's there game. The brig change ain't shit lol. It's ger ult.

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@lolicongang.4974 It's "their game", but last time they were not kept in check with adjusting "their game", the game literally died for 3 years and had to be salvaged under the "OW2" title. People are just saying, we aren't many who stuck with the game through thick and thin, and the likelihood that these people who have seen the death of the game straight in the face and know how it looks, these people have experience and context that some of the new devs and new players are totally unfamiliar with.

[@johnsonspark171]

except the game is already dead. There is nothing left to "save". Was just under 10k viewers on Twitch. That's the first time it's been that low since OW1. Really sad. I'm stunned that it only took six months for them to kill the game

[@elkosins1686]

@@johnsonspark171 bro the term “dead game” doesn’t refer to player count

[@blade_1482]

As a Masters support Main w/ very high hours on Mercy, what distinguishes a good mercy player from a bad one is her movement and survivability. Casual mercy players or casual support players in general don’t know how to move the same ways as like say a “one trick” high Elo mercy main or a mercy that has spent hours on practicing her movement techs. Mercy has always been an easily to play character healing wise but hard to master in terms of her movement. So what I don’t get is why they are basically punishing the Mercy players that do have a high skill expression w/ her movement. Not everyone can maximize her movement to its full potential, the devs need to know that😭

[@adeeshadeegala5900]

Same reason why they kept massacring doom. Only those doom onetricks were getting value from him in OW1, but everyone hated him anyways. Same with the unkillable mercy that pretty much flew around with impunity that no one could kill no matter what they did. Only a few can pull it off, but everyone who has to face it will end up frustrated to no end. Mercy movement is an issue, because she can do things without punishment, where she really should be able to be punished. Mercy players should be able to have fun, but so should the people facing her. Mercy should be survivable, but not impossible to hit, just as brig should be good but not immortal, or doom should be good but not a one shot machine, so on.

[@theredguy92]

They should’ve nerfed genji 😂

[@lolicongang.4974]

​@@adeeshadeegala5900 like they don't understand, walk more.

[@glasspaper3]

You spelled it out for yourself. They want the survivability value of the highest experience mercy players to be lower without affecting her survivability for lower skill players

[@suhudude]

Pre nerf mercy was so easy to get value out of, its a hell for low elo players that can't aim that well. Now she needs better CD management, separating the bad and good mercy

[@TheHankScorpio]

Flats: "supports don't need to swap" *5 seconds later* "I've lost games because supports don't swap", so which is it?

[@BBmetalhead04]

My only concern with Life Grip needing a confirmation from the player receiving it is the amount of time they would need to accept the grip. Overwatch can be sensory overload with its various status effects and screen clutter, so I could easily see people not realizing they are griped. I guess my potential solution to this would be once Lifeweaver casts grip on the receiving player, they still get the bubble shield. That way if they choose to get pulled or not, they at least have a bit of protection and have time to react to hit the interact key.

[@teejay1646]

Imagine a Suzu that lasts for potentially 4 seconds before Sym TP'ing someone out of the fight. People would abuse it for the protection and ability to push in further rather than the clutch escape

[@Gibbypastrami]

@@teejay1646 just don’t make them immortal until they confirm the grip lol

[@fuscello]

Making the allied shielded before they confirm would mean that the ability would be just used as a mei ice block for every character

[@xRichieeex]

Samito and flats really seem like they’d rather be playing an other game .

[@burberryshake6054]

Seems more like they wish their favorite game would be as good as they believe it could be- sometimes the "doomer" people really are just passionate for their game and can't always convey it without their emotions interfering

[@bluestitchgaming]

@@burberryshake6054 the feeling of overwatch 1 was soo good when the meta was set and you could shoot, counteract, use skillful thinking like any other tactical fps like csgo or rainbow six siege. Then balance got out of hand where new characters broke what was good about the game, ruined agency. Dive meta required team co-ordination and below diamond it didn’t even exist. No one above diamond were annoyed about dive from what I remember. Reinhardt and zarya rush was also loved by most and allowed for a variety of team compositions. Stationary zenyattas could pop off and swing a fight, lucios could time with the team to rush and boop an enemy into the enemy team, the Reinhardt v rein bait out ults and timings were exilerating, and zaryas could save teammates who were out of position, but it wouldn’t stop them from dying if multiple enemies were on a character (as it should be when you’re out of position). Even dps got a slice of the cake, with genji having quick reflexes and understanding of every character’s movement and getting 3ks, and 6ks with a nano boost. Mccree could punish it with a well timed flash, and zarya could buy time with her bubble management and her raw damage.

[@bluestitchgaming]

Basically the game had a great multiple character dynamic that made Overwatch Overwatch, just like how other fps games have their own dynamic. Now it kinda feels like everything is too skirmishy with random abilities hitting with little special interactions that made this game a hero shooter that won game of the year.

[@lruddy8820]

They probably do but probably to scared they wont get the views

[@zc8673]

​@@burberryshake6054 they don't even know what they want it to be. They constantly contradict themselves because they really just spew whatever thought pops into their head without thinking about it. They'll always just say whatever will get the most attention.

[@The-hamster2471]

Blizzard heard “mercy is skillless” so now whenever you do a skilled tech with mercy is now punishes you… fun

[@mekhayla]

for mercy, just make it to where you can still cancel during slingshot (jump) but keep the 1.5 state duration for superjump (crouch). so regular ga is still 1.5 seconds. slingshot is still 3.0 seconds (with the state duration) but the good mercy players will still be able to cancel her slingshot to make it 1.5. i think her superjump should have a 1.5 state duration because you shouldn’t be spamming that ability anyways for survival reasons. if they have to nerf her health for that to happen then sure go for it. also, i know they said they couldn’t find a middle ground for her heal but even if the healing bellow half is minimal, id still appreciate there being layers towards her healing.

[@a1e92]

This sounds like a good change. But we all know blizzard isn’t going to listen. This is just like OW1 all over again. Are their egos too big to listen to us? I don’t understand why it is taking them so long to deal with mercy the CORRECT way like they don’t have multiple content creator GM+ Mercy mains WILLING to help the devs out. This is honestly just pitiful.

[@lolicongang.4974]

How bout no you do anything but jump to an ally your doing extra hiya

[@mekhayla]

@@lolicongang.4974 because her tech has been in the game since like forever as well as her tech being the only thing that actually makes mercy fun to play. if their goal was to make us use her tech less then they shouldve just reverted her back to her ow1 state.

[@noahsarkhive4482]

somewhere in the comments i red someone else mention that svb shoukd invite newer creators as well, and i think i agree. there’s a whole bunch of people who have joined in ow2 n are doing good content n are good players, but most importantly- they are less jaded and burned out. we need more positivity in the community content we make too becasue i am tired of always seeing doom n gloom from many of the og’s. pr if you dont want new people, maybe try to get others in like emongg or ml7 or so nus or fareeha etc etc just more positivity

[@V_ii]

He does invite different and even new faces to the podcast. Sometimes he goes back to the familiar. But the change up is fairly frequent.

[@duel2803]

who are the newer creators other than tik tok overwatches youtube and twitch scene has stayed basically the same

[@lxrdentacion3076]

Bro all ow players r doomers. We need to become kumbaya with the doom lmao. Nah but fr dont change up this group its perfect. If u want more positivity go to ml7 or emonggs streams

[@Daveyjonesvi]

@@duel2803 I’d honestly ask for avg viewers to come and talk about the game as they are the average player with an average experience

[@zc8673]

Couldn't agree more. I already told YT to stop recommending flats and samito videos months ago because they're just awful to listen to. They never have anything good to say, it's always complaining no matter what.

[@nonoovictoria]

Hi svb/svb’s editor, could you make the graphics in the center of the screen a bit bigger for next time? It’s a little hard for me to read even while fullscreen on my ipad. Great episode as always!

[@Kurse_of_Kall]

Impossible to read on my phone, good critique.

[@ourikc]

Why was flats complaining about switching like it isn’t a main selling point and of the game

[@JeremiahGosdin]

Honestly, there could be problems this season in terms of balance, but as far as all this talk about what Brig should and shouldn't have and what Supports should and shouldn't have is really silly. Tanks and DPS are just used to being the playmakers with their 'healers' there to enable them, and they're upset now that Support is getting the shiny new things.

[@blee1997]

just to compensate THE SUPPORTS' LOW ROSTER NUMBER LMFAO

[@deadflesh1000]

I think we can all agree that having an ability that makes you and your team unkillable while giving great offensive capabilities is just not fun for anyone but the person using it

[@YazzPott]

@@deadflesh1000 im not sure being the target of any ult is “fun”. Is it fun being stuck in a grav? Is it fun to be nanobladed? Nah thats just fun for the zarya and team, and genji.

[@aerostrafe1075]

@@deadflesh1000 Wait. An ult that makes your team nearly unkillable and gives great offensive capabilities at the same time. *Glances towards zen*. hmmmm.

[@jm0112]

@@deadflesh1000 Sound barrier? Transcendence?

[@TheDevos1]

Creators when lucios ult nullifies ults : 😍 Creators when brigs ult stops ults : 😡🤬

[@skrunklyOwO]

Zen ult too

[@Eastra3]

@@78-GH most ults aren’t channels that can be cancelled by a stun though, but most ults can get cancelled on activation, but brig can’t speed past her ult animation into a stun to stop ult activations reactively. Brig would already have to be in ult form and enemies close enough to get bashed. Otherwise I agree, her ult isn’t encroaching on other defensive ults.

[@leontucker1654]

The point Freedo and SVB were making about reworking supports is yes they have the kit to change a fight but that kit relies on their whole team. Yes ana can change a fight with anti nade but ana cant get a fight changing kill by herself as well as a tank or dps can. Its not about ruining the game for everyone its about giving support the chance to better impact their own rank rather than relying on feeding dps and tanks (more players feed in lower ranks which turns a fight then players picking a "no skill character" and winning a fight")

[@Hthe]

Because they aren't supposed to, they are called support they support their team. If people don't like that, then they should not play support

[@-.Outlaw.-]

They aren’t supposed to.. they support the rest of the team so they can pop off lmao that’s the entire point of supports

[@VeryDryBones]

You describe exactly what a support is supposed to do. I'm a ana main and if they change her to have more killing potential I'll throw a fit. Already super good. She does not need to take out a team by herself or even more than two people by herself she is a healing sniper not Rambo.

[@nanner7085]

Flats complaining about people who disagree with him at 17:45 was uber lame. Your opinion isn't the holy grail my dude. Fredo also implying that he was the reason for Brig's stun coming back was also lame, that's just arrogance,

[@ragingangel13]

I feel like a Top 500 support content creator should’ve been brought in to discuss the support changes. It would’ve been nice to hear an expert perspective on the changes.

[@dragonsreingsupreme1]

I wouldn't pretty much every popular top 500 support has a odd intense hatred and superiority complex about mercy esskay being a big example. She is still considered the easy boosted egirl character and alot of support creators that don't main her want her to basically be deleted.

[@theredguy92]

Pretty sure Sam is top 10 ranked support and SVB is GM

[@TheNerd]

I feel like a popular Gold or Plat support player hould have been brought in, since the gameplay is so wastly different.

[@ashonline77]

@@dragonsreingsupreme1 the problem with this sentiment is that its still true that Mercy is comparatively the most boosted hero in the game. climbing with mercy is more rng than any other hero in the game which is literally a fact.

[@iyxon]

Sam was top 500 on Brig/Ana this season iirc.

[@florentwinleaf3462]

I dont comment much but, this happened more than once I really don't care about Flats being "burnt out" of Overwatch I came here for Overwatch, not cries about how you don't know what to do next for work Like you picked this path, a grown man See you still making Overwatch content for the next seasons though Flats, because we all know you will hop back once things get good So please Stop filling the air with a topic no one cares about Keep it professional and talk about the game, please guys I'm a fan of the Overwatch content only I'm skipping all talks about this from now on I find it to be a waste of time

[@wrath5332]

Sam made a great point. Supports do have great tools. But if you can't use those tools on your team cause you need em for yourself, they aren't as impactful. Of course, dps and tank should turn and burn to keep their supports alive... But you can't expect that for all levels of play. Now, with Brig, she doesn't have the tools to make big plays. Her ultimate is a "I hope we can push into site with this"....vs a Rush, Transcendence, Nano.... Big playmaking ultimates. Whipshot is decent for keeping people from jumping you and initiating Inspiration.... But that's it. She has a sort of escape option if she over extends...idk, her ultimate was the only think that she needed a fix for. She needs this. While the numbers may be a Lil much, the ideas/tools were needed to make her ultimate worth doing.

[@slurpy-f3k]

i'll never not hate brig but I hope they keep pushing the design philosophy of supports being able to hold their own in a fight. being defenseless and having to rely so much on your teammates' protection is the worst

[@FishboyAbzu]

Yeah and it just leads to people acting like supports are being carried to their ranks so I hope so too.

[@donovan4222]

It’s already easier to survive 1v1s as a support than a Dps

[@refertopfp9627]

So which support can't hold their own in a 1v1? I can't think of a single one besides Mercy. Ana has Sleep, high damage primary, and Nade, Moira has Fade, Orbs, and life steal, Bap has one of the best primaries in the game and Immortality Field, Kiriko has immortality and a two tap on her primary, Zen can two tap and has a the best quick melee in the game, Lucio has the best mobility in the game with a decent primary, and Brig has a high damage combo and a personal shield. Yet all supports still lose to tanks, as they should because no "Support" role should be able to win any solo battle against anyone, especially the (now 2nd) most powerful role in the game.

[@donovan4222]

@@refertopfp9627 lol exactly, they’re called “supports” for a reason, they’re not supposed to be able to have the kill/1v1 potential of a Dps or tank

[@refertopfp9627]

@@donovan4222 Ana alone is already such a big example of this. She can kill all but 3 (2 soon) DPS role heroes in 3 shots from her primary, and even then, you can just Nade them and still win anyways.

[@-NoNo.]

What Sam is describing is not how ga works. Ga has a 1.5 second cooldown but doing anything else adds an additional 1.5 second cooldown regardless of wether you finish the movement or not. So you could be finished doing a guardian Angel movement and still have it start the cooldown late. I’m just confused as to why they further nerfed it to 3 seconds. It makes no sense

[@POTGMACHINE]

Saturday morning with Coffee, SVB, and the gang! I imagine this is gonna be a wild one.

[@lexington.]

So Flats simultaneously thinks supports should be the first to die in a fight otherwise you'll lose the fight, but also doesn't go for supports first anymore cause he lost in a 2v1 where all he did was swing his hammer and the enemy supports actually used their cooldowns? Righto champ, pull your head in.

[@danielvecera4608]

Rein should win that

[@BlazedKiller308]

he's right tho, rein shouldn't lose to 2 supports so easily

[@Kamorzy]

@@BlazedKiller308 Who said it was easy? The fact that its a story is bc its unexpected. 99% of the time, Rein wins that. By their design, I guarantee they did land multiple crits on him if it was just those 2 alone. There should be room for clutch upsets in the game, especially when the only requirement on Rein was hold left click with no skill involved.

[@happyhopehuber]

​@@Kamorzy i remember when supports actually had to be good at the game and had to be on the right hero standing in the right spot and hitting shots on the right people..... it was honestly a super hard role and was rewarding before. And now they put these disgusting ass DLC supports im the game and now everyone acts every support needs to be able to do everything. Think about the 3 high damage high healing high mobility supports in the role..... oh yeah and they also have a "youcantpunishme" button...... 3 fking characters now that require no thought just press a button and boom your out of danger.... support is an infantilized role it needs to be put on blast more . Obvious dev bias going on.... "wahhh. Wahhh supports so bad wahhhhh" the whole player base when support was more broken than its ever been.. its called a SKILL ISSUE.... has been since season 1 and they keep powercreeping it

[@Doomthepixarkid]

They're really having a rank disagreement. Top 500 vs everyone else

[@vendettyron]

That's how the game it's supposed to be balanced. That's how the should be played. If you are below master you don't understand how the game is played so your opinion it's lees important to be honest

[@Braidas]

@@vendettyron and OWL players would say most top 500s don't even know how to play the game. It's relative

[@jaden5843]

@@Braidas balancing the game with priority to low skill players always ruins the game. that’s why brig was made to begin with. because players kept getting dumpstered by tracer/ flankers

[@Braidas]

@@jaden5843 im not disagreeing. i just thought it was funny to say masters players 'know' how to play when better players would consider them trash

[@vendettyron]

@@Braidas owl players would say that it's own players don't know how to play xdxd

[@Spannondorf]

I'd love to get some perspective on this. Samito said at the start that what tends to bother him about some support heroes is that the amount of input is disproportionate to the amount of reward you receive, that part I understand. At the same time though, we have to worry about why a character like Reinhardt has to be good in top 500, even though he exemplifies that playstyle from a tank perspective. In lower ranks, he's a character that you just hold right click and W, then when you get close you hold left click and W. He's not complicated, and it's all about the game sense, not the mechanics. As a tank main myself, I'm fine with Reinhardt falling off, it's just like how Moira, Junkrat, etc, should fall off once you get into Masters/GM. I mean, I know the real reason. People just like playing with Reinhardt. The Overwatch community is 100% biased towards Rein and against Brigitte(and honestly a decent chunk of support heroes, as SVB mentioned having players throw the game for a LUCIO pick), but buffing Reinhardt to be competitively viable in top 500 is exactly what you DON'T want for Brigitte, because it'd be a disproportionate skill/reward ratio that'll only make him more oppressive in lower tiers. Like I said, I probably answered my own question, but why is it bad for less mechanically focused heroes to be the meta in top 500 if they're supports, but Reinhardt needs to be viable in all tiers?

[@danielyt7125]

Soo true tho.

[@danielyt7125]

Lift up Reinhardt and look on Moira, Kind of sad ...

[@rare9242]

I dont agree with this logic, characters shouldn't be balanced based on the skill needed to operate them. First off, by this logic Ball would deserve to be buffed into the moon because of how much harder he is to play than any other hero in the game by a large amount. Mechanically he is hard as fuck to play, double boops and the like are really hard to execute, even for veteran players. If he was as good as he was hard to play, the game would be unplayable. Moira/Junkrat fall off because they're bad in the current meta not because they're low skill. They have weaker kits than the counterparts in their roles, it's not because "low skill heroes" have to suck. Hell, reaper was meta for such a long time back in the day and he's even easier than rat. What you have to realize is a characters strength has no relation to how hard or easy they are. It's not bad for less mechanically focused heroes to be meta in top500, it's just easier to express skill with heroes with stronger kits. The meta is based off of perceived strength not perceived difficulty. A good operator can take advantage of these strengths. People want rein to be viable in all tiers because he's a simple, popular hero thats easy to play around and is very straightforward to fight against. It has nothing to do with him being weak/strong, they enjoy the gameplay involved. Personally I dont care for rein that much but I do think balancing around perceived difficulty to operate can A) lead to arguments because everyone disagrees about perceived strength, leading to us being balanced by blizzard's PERCEPTION of a meta they dont quite understand. B) Leads to gameplay that isnt as fun and engaging as it could be, because of what I mentioned about rein before. IMO rein being "good" is usually a sign the meta isnt obnoxious, but thats a whole other topic for another day

[@Spannondorf]

@@rare9242 I 100% agree with everything you've said. That's exactly why I'm confused about the take. They definitely talk like Brig/Moira shouldn't be as good because of the lack of input, either mentally or mechanically, to be good at the character. Maybe they don't feel the same way with the DPS role so Junkrat and Reaper aren't included, but then why does their logic stop at support?

[@rare9242]

@@Spannondorf Honestly I think it's just OW1 bias leaking thru. Brig gave everyone PTSD to the point nobody can have a rational take about her, and Moira is Moira. Im with u that it's kinda stupid logic, and esp in overwatch2 both heroes have been so far from a problem. I like flats but he's been kinda off recently, I dont like his takes on LW either.

[@Kivivideos]

Flats is whining the whole podcast, he had his time, let him rest and invite another guest :)

[@BrutusCV_]

Completely agree. I usually like Flats on the podcast and hearing his opinion....but anytime Brig is brought up, they act like they just caught cancer. It's ridiculous

[@refertopfp9627]

​@@BrutusCV_ That's because old Brig IS cancer. Nobody wants that shit back.

[@Skysama02]

@@BrutusCV_ you do understand brig literally made it so we have role q. She dominated the game for so long, also she’s just not fun to play against.

[@zc8673]

I actually had to stop watching this episode because I can't stand his and samitos whining anymore.

[@tehMothMan]

@@Skysama02 Thanks Jeff Kaplan...

[@mejad]

how about whole podcast about one shot DPS like widow and hanzo . A brigg wont be as annoying as those two

[@jaynessaa]

Hanzo is a luck based hero and tbh isn’t that good rn. He needs a rework one hundred percent.

[@diogodinis39]

Flats bringing the regular doom and gloom

[@MrClonedzero]

I've literally never seen a video of his, or one he's in, where he's not actively complaining or hating. It's all he does. It's kinda sad.

[@pt4005]

Even sadder it’s his life and job. Imagine overwatch being your life and you can’t walk away or you lose your livelihood…. Grim grim grim grim grim grim

[@canvascontent4383]

Just a thought on the overall tone and format of the podcast: Freedo made an excellent point about analyzing the high-level impact of various changes versus how they affect casual play, "the 99%" as I believe he called us. 😏 I love the top-tier discussions. Always enlightening and educational. However, one of the things that draws me to certain content creators is a certain willingness to lay out how some elements affect everyone below Masters. Jayne always did this admirably well, and SVB, KarQ and Samito all typically do their best to lay things out for us peasants. For the longest time, we had.....I don't know, Blame The Controller? And that felt like about it. It's nice to feel seen.

[@vallarra2524]

100% this brig change is for low skill level players because in games with less coordination and game sense supports get trashed if the enemy has even 1 person focusing them. A lot of times these guys don’t understand how the game is at the lower levels of play. If the enemy team brings a pharah and you don’t have a really solid hitscan…..it’s just a loss. Having a beefier support that can instantly heal and become tankier means supports kind of have a chance against a flanker ulting them. Lots of low rank games where a single flanker or a dive tank just completely bully and shut down a backline

[@ryebreadpanic]

I need to go listen to Awkward and ML7's opinions on the changes, because too many people are behaving like Brig personally killed their dog and burned their house down.

[@adeeshadeegala5900]

She did destroy the game for a good 2 years.

[@Jaymizuband]

She’s lowkey the reason Overwatch 2 exist.

[@KingOfNebbishes]

Brig was only created because OW1 t500 players were begging for something different than dive. Brig was the consequences of FAFO.

[@Real_MisterSir]

I mean Brig literally caused the event that drove away 60% of the playerbase during OW1's peak. Tens of millions of players quit because the devs didn't respect the havock Brig created in the game.

[@lacke1-gz5qg]

@@Real_MisterSir This is factually incorrect. The stats show that the biggest drop in interest was during DIVE. Brig countered DIVE and slowed the drop off. She opened the game up, and more heroes got increased pick rates.

[@michaels9595]

I now remember why I clicked "Don't recommend channel" on samito. I'm just not aligned with his takes at all. but also, I am just a scrub lol.

[@JCMagicAustralia]

One of the Avengers may need to be replaced with a support main. I appreciate attempts in moderating to add nuance but episode feels like an echo chamber

[@SlaineReigns]

Agreed. Bring ML in or KarQ. They're very insightful on the support side.

[@uberhaxornovanongalaktiksk9798]

Samito has hit rank 1 multiple times on the support role so he knows it very well. After all he used to play professional on the support.

[@Jaymizuband]

Sam has one tricked Brig in Contenders and has gotten top 10 in supp multiple times, I think he checks all boxes here.

[@JimboTMX]

Freedo Plays Support

[@rivercrystal2511]

@@JimboTMX You can play support without having a response as nuanced as ml7's. do you really think it's a good idea to include no support mains when talking about a balance patch which includes a new support and changes balance of many supports.

[@LiveLuckyGaming]

I love flats, but his bias is on super display in this.

[@soyunbonus]

He's getting closer to Samito by the day

[@ROBAKABIGPAPA]

Bias for? He's making valid points.

[@johnsonspark171]

bias for what? Supports being busted and ruining the game for everyone else? Hero bans would fix most of this mess Blizzard has made. Sad

[@henrymorales9584]

​@@johnsonspark171 I'm down for hero bans IF the support roster becomes at least as big as the tank roster

[@johnsonspark171]

@@henrymorales9584 it's getting close. Also, it doesn't necessarily need to be one ban per role to start and it would also only be in ranked. Maybe start with two bans with no role restrictions. The devs admitted way back in S1 that the game had a one-tricking problem. This would hopefully solve some of that issue

[@skbj6782]

Flats should get into custom games and the workshop so he can make his own balance changes and test them out in scrims with other creators. get some viewers in specific ranks to play to see how his changes work in lower ranks. It’d be fun to watch the process on the content side of things, and maybe he’d understand that balancing the game is not so easy. or maybe his changes would be goated and he is right about everything, idk I just wanna see these creators prove their 24/7 dooming is justified.

[@PoohOnYourShoe]

So idk how long you have been playing ow for, but in OW1 they had a creator mode on the test servers where creators could add patches to heros, and rein’s shatter being able to headshot and do damage WAS because of flats. In OW1, it only did like 5 dmg, but the community loved his rein patch and it stayed in the game for OW2.

[@tehMothMan]

That would require him to be creative

[@MrNocturnOwl]

Coming back to this video to say that Freedo was 100% correct in his analysis on brig and he absolute smacked Samito and Flats and all their points

[@SkidMcmarxx]

It’s often the case that he does. He’s super meandering in his points and he doesn’t always argue them well, but he’s more often correct than the others.

[@DIAT0NIX_16]

Why are we not talking about the nerf to pack range?

[@jsels777]

SVB: What's up guys I've assembled the avengers Samito: It is just coo-coo for cocoa puffs man Flats: My love for the game is just dying out at this point SVB: Okay I wanna bring it over to freedo

[@DNYLNY]

Breaking life grip with a Jump would be so convenient. Also wish they made his dash a double jump ability like hanzo. That way he could heal and damage without swapping.

[@alvin_row]

I'd say breaking it with double jump would be ideal so people don't break it by accident. Like two jumps in quick succession. Although some characters would still break it by accident, like Mercy jump spamming to minimize her wing hurtbox.

[@ZingyCreature2]

31:20 when Sam said compare that ult to dragon blade…I felt that

[@blitz8425]

My man Genji out here struggling and made it so Moira can fade in ult lmao

[@Totothegoat01]

@@blitz8425 tbh coal was and still is worse than blade

[@blitz8425]

@@Totothegoat01 nah, no shot. There are few ults that get that kind of value for so little input. Literally just point it at what ever you want and it will do something. It can't be deflected, shields don't stop it, it damages, it heals, and it's range makes it forgiving. It's only meaningfully countered by like, 3 characters. Meanwhile blade requires arguably the most input for value. It requires timing, it requires you to manage at least one other ability while using it to get value, it's damage is meh, you're automatically THE target, and you have to get close to everyone. That's not to mention the fact that Genji is one of the worst characters overall right now specifically because of what was said in this discussion. Too many characters provide value just by existing, and Moira is one of them.

[@luckebeans6408]

@@Totothegoat01 moira is a support i would hope that her ult is worst than blade

[@deadflesh1000]

​@@Totothegoat01 ah, yes, a ult that heals you, has a great range, heals your team and deals damage all at once while increasing your movement speed greatly, still worse than the ult that turns you into a melee character with a slow firing speed and one dash that requires commitment

[@waldeck325]

Stop inviting Mr Burn Out and The Rage Toddler. Freedo is fine

[@SpartanKyuubi]

It doesn’t matter what the topic of discussion is, Flats will always find a way to mention discord orb on every podcast.

[@YTHandlesWereAMistake]

the crusade is active

[@captainmorg95]

It's because it's a problem

[@SpartanKyuubi]

@@captainmorg95 it’s not. You only see this complaint from streamer tanks. Nobody else cares.

[@cthulues5527]

@@SpartanKyuubi Maybe because it’s an active issue effecting tank players. I don’t know

[@nuclearsimian3281]

Yeeeep.

[@UngoKast]

Giving Brig the big shield without a buff to the shield health doesn’t make sense imo. People always say “SUPPORT NOT HEALER”. Well in order to make that a reality, we need to look at abilities that do more than heal for supp while also giving more healing abilities to tank and DPS. My proposal for the stun is to make it like a Doom empowered punch. Give it a charge meter based on damage blocked.

[@strangejune]

That would be so busted. A big Reinhardt shield that punishes you for shooting it? No.

[@stellarisk2822]

If she didn’t get the shield buff she literally would just get burned in half a second. Especially because it’s a bigger target. These guys aren’t even using logic lol. I don’t even think it needs the charge meter because it has a 5 second cd.

[@strangejune]

@@stellarisk2822 She doesn't need shield health because she doesn't need a big shield because her shield is used selfishly. Not even Reinhardt's shield is flexible enough to be able to use it for your team.

[@UngoKast]

@@stellarisk2822 No, I'm totally with you as a former Brig main from OW1. I'm just trying to provide some middle ground before all the streamers start crying even harder. I mean this is how much they're bitching pre-patch. Can you imagine how many Group Up Podcasts are going to be a circlejerk of "I'M UNINSTALLING. BRIG ANNOYING," after the patch drops? I respect these guys, but holy fuck they bitch so much when the game doesn't go their way, and the only thing they do (even SVB sadly) is clout farm outrage.

[@UngoKast]

@@strangejune Right, but you do realize that this pre-patch has it such that you don't need to shoot the shield at all to build a shield bash during ult? If shooting shield to build bash is busted, does that mean the current pre-patch is omega-busted? I'm only talking about during ult, not all the time. As it stands, you're getting punished regardless.

[@bokajon]

this podcast didn't age well. brig got nerfed more with this patch than she got buffed lol

[@danielyt7125]

“Stop buffing easy Hero’s” except for reinhardt right ? Lol The hypocrisy is real.

[@魚-c3d]

Reinhardt is more difficult than brig tho

[@joshuaamador-coppin155]

Flats opinion is actually “this character deserves to be dogshit because I don’t like her lol”

[@KingOfNebbishes]

Always has been. See his takes on Hog and Orisa. If he don't like it, he don't want to see it ever again.

[@banditgotgame1721]

@@KingOfNebbishes so it was just flats that said hog and orisa were Overtuned and not the fact that they dominated the top500 leaderboard 🤔

[@KingOfNebbishes]

@@banditgotgame1721 Who was talking about them? The statement was about Flats, and it was accurate.

[@ChimpRevolution]

​@@KingOfNebbishes hog is legitimately unhealthy for the game he has extremely high sustain with a 1 shot

[@ChimpRevolution]

​@@KingOfNebbishes Also can you blame him brigg was so broken in OW1 did you even play back in the goats era she literally killed the game she was extremely easy to play and the highest value

[@armandopeniche9873]

I kinda believe Flats will only be happy if Rein is op and Tanks are the most impactul class. Bonus points if support is unplayable.

[@imperiumVII]

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that

[@davidrich27]

He openly admitted that his arguments were in bad faith. He said something along the lines of “Everyone else in the community just wants the heroes they play to be busted, why shouldn’t I?” He wants to see tanks busted again and supports running for their lives. None of his criticisms were constructive. Freedo at least interpreted it to “Zen’s discord is too strong”, which isn’t that crazy. I’d like to see Zen’s discord break LOS on shield. Even if he needs compensation buffs in other ways.

[@bobothebob4716]

Man it's getting hard to watch Flats and Sam. Maybe keep them on separate podcasts from each other. All they do is complain. Sometimes I wish Flats would just go play another game like he's "threating" to do. Brother, it's clear ya burnt out. I think it would be healthy for the podcasts if you expanded the skill range of participants. Even expanding from the top .001% to like the top 3% would be better. Get some Master in there. Get some GM. We get it the game is broken at the top .001%. People just aren't sympathetic. Why ruin the hero for the majority of players just to appease 500 or so people.

[@oBlackIceo]

Buddy thinks harmony orb can carry a fight 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣🤣

[@_EXP626_]

Not there yet in the video, but did he actually say harmony orb? Because I know he’s been saying discord orb is stupid and discord most definitely does carry fights.

[@cheeseman_jones]

I think the scariest thing about life weaver is the idea that people who have hyper inflated egos who think that their team always sucks and that's the reason why they can't climb will pick up life weaver and think "I'm just gonna do everything myself" and start pulling people and out fights because they don't have any faith in their teammates and will inadvertently sabotage their own games

[@-.Outlaw.-]

If I get pulled out of a shatter I’m going to fucking mald

[@NobleRenegade7]

​@-.Outlaw.- oh its happened to me too many times already and I'm still blamed

[@PatronHall]

So Flats, what's your vision of a good support design? Flats:.......I liked when we all jumped on Zen and killed him. I don't like that I can't 2v1 supports because they're....supporting each other.

[@PharticusMcbutt]

Good support design to tank and DPS mains is ‘give them things that let ME impact the game more’

[@reynauldwhistles2338]

Freedo, svb and the i hate supports echo chamber duo this will be an interesting video.

[@SlaineReigns]

As I watched more and more over the months of this podcast, I've noticed that too. Everytime a positive change happens to a support character Flats and Sam always pile on the negativity with the change. And as the patch moved forward, it goes to happen that it's not really that huge of a deal. I love both Flats and Sam, but man everytime a positive change happens to a support they always are against it. And as a support main, it's kinda getting old now to me to be honest. My stance on the support changes is that the Ana change was stupid, and for the Brig change is let's wait and see what happens first. The stun that brig does now is more of an interrupt (literally 0.1 sec and not enough to burst someone down), and is only active on Rally.

[@MohammedHassan-tv3vr]

Brig gets 2 stuns at most with this change. The thing is the ult also went from 30% to 15% speed boost. I doubt that 2 stuns would ever be applicable in-game. Especially with her new shield, since it is bigger, it also can be destroyed faster and we know brig is nothing without her shield. The way us brig mains used this current rally was to force as much space as we could within the 10 seconds and 30% speed boost helped a ton. Im guessing the devs didnt like that? Since most support ults are defensive and rally was more offensive, its some kind of problem lmao. The only thing im looking forward to with this new rally is to stun a nano blade genji lol but thats about it. I just hope base brig doesnt get nerfed to compensate for an arguably better rally, and my hopes arent up bc they already nerfed pack range.

[@YUSSUFXVI]

@@MohammedHassan-tv3vr I don’t even play genji but give that man a break😭

[@josephreynolds2401]

Freedo defended the support roster in this vid and says they are getting the power they deserve. Which podcast are you listening to? Which videos were you watching? Did you notice the disapproval at the sleep dart nerf? These guys play all 3 roles competently, mind you. They aren't playing favorites. It's a complete projection to suggest they hate this category of heroes that they have played longer and better than most players.

[@MohammedHassan-tv3vr]

@@YUSSUFXVI Hey I love going against genji, I just personally think nano blade is too strong which is why they keep nerfing him. Even in top 500 you see nano blade getting 5K’s regularly.

[@bink97]

Being an Ana main, I can’t wait for Lifeweaver as a teammate. 2nd point defense on Dorado is gonna be amazing now, because I won’t have to take that long walk to get back to high ground now

[@TheDevos1]

I feel like flats just wants to be able to kill supports easily lmaooo. Like….why should two supports focusing on each other not be able to survive one tank 😵‍💫

[@SpookyPandaBoi]

You dont need two supports to be focusing each other for them to survive. Moira fade, ana sleep, kiriko suzu and tele, lucio boop, zen kick, mercy GA, bap imort or jump if high ground is near. "EXACTLY SO WHY HATE ON BRIG BLAH BLAH BLAH" She has whipshot, shield bash and now a stun. Also tank or not the only way to win a team fight is to kill the supports, if you cannot do that how will you win?

[@SlaineReigns]

@@SpookyPandaBoi Yes you do need 2 supports to survive one tank. If a tank pushes a single support you're just dead. It doesn't matter how much CC you use, tanks get less interruption and now Ana is even punished against tanks for reducing the sleep timer. It's like you have no clue how to play support, are you playing in bronze/silver or something? The only 3 movement abilities that can survive a tank pushing a single support is Moira fade, Mercy GA, and Kiriko swift step. That's it. Other attacks that pushes tanks like boops, whipshot, or zen kick doesn't push a tank far enough for them to survive because tanks have more resistance to abilities that displaces them. That's why it's mandatory for the other support to help their fellow support teammate so they can survive. IF a tank is smart enough, which happens at higher ELO Diamond and above, they'll wait for enemy support CD's to be used before pushing to instakill 1 support if their other support is nowhere to be found. Also you forgot, Brig 0.1 sec stun is only active on Rally. You talk as if Rally is activated 100% of the time.

[@Adam-pz5ot]

​@Slaine_V it's irrelevant that the stun is only in ult all you need is a good push to turn the tide of point or choke point to win a game this change alone over tunes the hell out of brig.

[@SpookyPandaBoi]

@@SlaineReigns No need for rank belittling as you have no idea. You just want to assume on your high horse and thats fine. You do still have to realize that Lucio has wallride and speed, which with a small boop still gives him an escape. Ana's sleep has been nerfed, but when did I say I was commenting on their abilites after this patch goes live? If you would like I can show you my distaste for that change, as it removes her ability to escape easier which I do not disagree with you on. Weird though that you left out suzu though. Especially because, and correct me if im wrong, it give your *invulnerability*. The only thing I said was that Brig NOW has a stun. Brig has whipshot which can displace and then she can turn away and shield bash, still giving her a way out. As for the point about tanks waiting for cooldowns, you are 100% correct. However, when did I mention that my point was made for high elo smart tank players. I am talking about a general idea through QP and Comp. Love the rage in your comment though, gave me a good laugh. :) P.S. its weird that you talk about Diamond elo or higher? Did you reach that in the last 19 days on support? If you did congrats, thats a lot of grinding.

[@SlaineReigns]

@@SpookyPandaBoi What? Im not raging. Far from it, I don't know how you could come up with that assumption lol. I just explained facts to you, it's up to you how you take it. It's pretty funny when someone rebuts your point all of a sudden I'm automatically "Raging". Ok buddy. Keep on keeping hating on the supports though, it's good for your health. I take joy from it. 😂 EDIT: Also I brought up rank as an assumption from your statement. Im pretty sure most people that knows how to properly play the game know that placement abilities like Whipshot or Zen Kick isn't as effective on tanks. The fact that you brought up everyone's BOOP ablities against Tanks says a lot. I was probably right in my assumption that you're a low rank. Also I reached Dia 2 First week of march and maxed out my BP and stopped playing the game. Next season I'll reach masters DW. 😉

[@notoriousshizzane2696]

"Um actually Brig is gonna ruin the game because of 10 seconds she has during her ultimate that isn't for sure gonnna be used at the most perfect time" But my top 500 games that don't mean diddly to the 99.9% of the rest of the community cause we are all that matters.. get over yourselves. Let everyone enjoy themselves. Go kick rocks... Before it was "O support is just playing dead by daylight" now it's "Brig is gonna ruin my whole game cause she stunned me once during the whole round" sorry.. these guys sound like losers who really don't know whats good for the game. Let the devs feel this out, it will probably get nerfed a bit (I hope, don't dumpster it please) but hey maybe tweak everyone else a bit to fall in line. Freedo is my hero, cause this man actually played against it and literally said it didn't seem that overpowered "even against good brigs" chill the F out... man.. I've never been so fired up over something. The whole point was to make support not feel underwhelming and when they buff them it's like "O my god, the game is ruined!" ... ok buddy. chill my man, how about we focus on making everyone feel fun and impactful instead of just crying cause your class has a counter now.

[@Jaymizuband]

This is the energy that killed OW1 Lmao

[@Barrett1]

Except support is already giga broken so your just wrong

[@zero13z34]

@@Jaymizuband what killed OW1 was the lack of content

[@Nero78901]

If you look at og brig you'll know completely why people hate the character. Being able to stun through a shield is disgusting and is forcing the game in the direction ow2 was supposed to stop. I have no problem with the giant shield but the stunning is ridiculous.

[@notoriousshizzane2696]

@@Barrett1 Giga broken? what? Are you maybe just dealing with a good support player perhaps? You know someone who knows how to play their hero and be impactful? It's not like a widow or hanzo ever just wipes the whole team in 10 seconds.

[@hipiticlivi7400]

After a couple of days of season 4, we can see that Brigg if something has been nerfed, and Flats, yet again, failed his predictions, like with Ramattra, kiriko etc... I can't stand him anymore, "me me me", "content creation", "farm views" and whining. No thanks.

[@SilastheMatchmaker]

I don't comment on this stuff often, but this was a particularly interesting podcast. Tbh, I would have liked hearing from a dedicated support player though as well for these changes.

[@justtamu]

Edit: Flats just needs to uninstall fr. We need a conversation with more people from different ranks & platforms or just some casual players thrown in because these people are too stuck in a high rank bubble. It feels like anything that isnt t500 is "casual" gameplay to these people, and casual players are so over-hated when they are the majority of the experience. Edit 2: Why is there always a Flats therapy session when he is present? please PLEASE bring someone else 😭 he is so draining and u can tell how awkward yall feel because of his CONSTANT negativity. Even Freedo is indirectly telling him he needs to just stop being so self-pitying , sam was just waiting for him to stop the crying session 💀

[@diogodinis39]

That edit 2, Lmao so true

[@michaelj49]

I agree; blizzard would do everything these guys say, they even gave them a hero that's only funtional in high ranked games where people actually communicates more, lifeweaver is not gonna work as intended in the lower ranks, and the majority of players are not top 500 because we have better things to do than excel at a game without any reward whatsoever

[@beausis]

Glad to hear Freedo's call out on them always talking about the 1%. These guys are always wondering how to grow the Overwatch culture. This community needs a Maximilliandood. Although it is entertaining and I love this podcast. I must say they spend too much time bitching and complaining about the top 1% meta. The bigger picture stuff is always more entertaining

[@BlackFoliageVol1]

They cry about everything, and then the devs make every change they want, then they cry even harder. They don’t make the game for people playing 20 hours a day, oi ve.

[@beausis]

@@BlackFoliageVol1 unfortunately I don't think there is a direct competitor in this space of content creation. Is there a different group pod I can watch other than this one?

[@konrah1486]

When the biggest content creators for the game are all in that 1% of course they’re always going to talk about the 1%. It takes a great deal of mental gymnastics to ignore the fact that the biggest creators who have the most influence over their audience are all in that 1%. To each their own but I’d certainly value a higher skilled player’s opinion who has been playing since OW1 day 1 over someone who’s in gold and started playing in OW2. But that’s just me.

[@beausis]

@@konrah1486 There is nothing wrong with sucking content creators dick but just be aware you are doing it my boy. Take a look at the FGC bub. Maximilliandood and Justin Wong, the 2 most popular content creators. Amazing players. Justin Wong has earned the title of Japanese God. Literally the best in the world one point in 10+ different fighting games across a couple decades. Yet somehow these guys know how to make content that appeals to everyone, not just dealing with issues that pertain exclusively to the pro circuit

[@Snakestube]

Do you play sfv

[@MrNocturnOwl]

Freedo was spitting the whole podcast

[@airamnunez9214]

I think there were alpt of points he could have explained better, and some of them just had me believing he was high.

[@jordanschroeder5441]

@@airamnunez9214very true but you knew what he meant with his points and a lot of them were valid. Granted, some of them were kind of ridiculous as well

[@airamnunez9214]

@@jordanschroeder5441 Yeah I agree. Like some of them made sense others had me wishing I bashed my head theough concrete. It was visisble in Flats and Sam's face when he made random ass "points" like "Oh OW is slowly becoming like an rpg, this that and this that have nothing to do with rhe topic but ill bring it kn anyways!" Or say that the brig ult changes are balanced, which raises a ? To me for those that say it does because I ask yoi this. Imagine if rein ult after it hit someone gave everyone am extra 30 hp for each person hit and they got movement speed and healing over time(not the ideal comparison to brig but you get the drift)

[@_EXP626_]

The game dies if they add hero bans. That’s a terrible idea.

[@alexguerrier9363]

I don't know why freedo is so hell bent on this idea. If people can't play their favorite hero they won't play the game

[@_EXP626_]

@@alexguerrier9363 Yeah, especially since most people that play overwatch (or any video game really) play it casually and don’t try hard like their life depends on it. Also, what if there’s a really dominant character in a match, like widow or hog, and their counter got banned? Just “gg” then? Like realistically, the only way I see hero bans working is if it’s two to three heroes per role. Which obviously is a stupid idea.

[@charlesrhodes1089]

Flats: "supports can easily carry a fight" Also Flats: "it doesn't matter if you get first pick on support. Losing a dps is way more impactful" Flats is just straight up Anti supports.

[@eidolonomega]

No I think the point is. You get rid of a DPS. DPS is going to be lacking because the second DPS is going to have a harder time picking up the slack. A single support is going to do a better job keeping a tank and two DPS alive and winning the team fight than 2 supports 1 tank and 1 DPS will have winning a teamfight. You aren't incentivised to jump on that out of position support anymore, it has to be an out of position DPS.

[@GeneralxGrant]

Rally is a 10 second Ult that gives you 2 stuns max folks why are people MELTING DOWN OVER IT

[@Sigma_Mail]

This podcast has turned into flats crying about the game for 3 hours

[@kayanono]

They cant stop flaming supports lmao

[@johnsonspark171]

Supports are the worst players in the game and they constantly get their hands held. Support is broken. We need hero bans now

[@City.of.Rancho.Cucamonga]

As long as Brigs non ult stun hasn’t returned i think it’s fine

[@oBlackIceo]

A support player for the big divisive support patch would’ve been nice. Just a thought.

[@Lorenzo-px6pe]

Freedo is a support player. I believe he even got top 500 in support at some point and he regularly states on his channel that currently, it’s his favorite role.

[@josephreynolds2401]

@@Lorenzo-px6pe SVB and Samito both play support accts too. I think Samito made a point to climb to Top500 on support to one-up some twitter accts, not agreeing with his motive, but he made his point when naysayers didn't.

[@rivercrystal2511]

@@josephreynolds2401 i think he more means a support main none of them main support.

[@JordanYee]

Samito IS a support. I know he is most popular for his dps as an entertainer, but as a competitor, he *is* a support. It's regularly his highest ranked role (he peaked in top 10 support I believe) and he consistently played support as a contender level professional. Freedo has always been a flex player, but I believe for all of OW2 at least, support is his best performing role.

[@MohammedHassan-tv3vr]

Freedo seems the most level headed here beside SVB and I appreciate that. Flats and samito seem to just hate brig, I get that she was OP in OW1 but its not the same brig. I’m pretty sure about a month or two ago, Flats uploaded a video on one of his alt channels where he was getting bullied by a brig while he was on rein in a qp match lol. Maybe im just reading too much into it but how do you get mad at OW2 brig with no stun? I would say shes the most fair support before the rally changes.

[@dantheman1998]

Flats yells at cloud

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

Thank you SVB and Freedo for speaking for the supports. In what world should a single tank be able to kill 2 supports with no skills? The stances he has on alot of these takes gives off OW1 boomer vibes

[@shannonolivas9524]

JFC Samito it's only her ult. She still plays the same for most of the game and everybody agreed her old ult was low impact. I guess he was perfectly fine with that though. I wouldn't say she's unkillable until I see how quickly she regenerates her armor during that 10 seconds (I guarantee you I'll find a way to get killed during it lol). "THIS IS NOT WHY PEOPLE PLAY SHOOTER GAMES!" he keeps repeating, like COD has tanks and support/healers. Then bro goes on to insult like 95% of the audience here saying below masters he guarantees people weren't playing her "right" and that's the real problem. I don't play a lot of Brigitte myself but I'm sure the people who play her are people (playing a "shooter game") and they deserve to feel like their ult can be impactful just as much as the Genji blade or the Orissa Terra Surge. We scream here about 2 possible short stuns countering ults within a 10 second window (with an ult) while Doomfist is free to knock you out of channeled ults, with an aoe impact, every 4 seconds and Hanzo can still miss who he's shooting at and one shot you on accident. Let the Brig mains have their fun for now I say (until they kill me one too many times and I start to rage and join your side calling for nerfs lol). This kind of overblown response is the kind of thing that drove a mob to harass the voice actress last time around. Take it down a notch. Don't get your fanbase riled up. Chill tf out. Do what all the tank and DPS players say to do everytime Blizz overtunes one of those characters: "wait and see", "it's too early to tell" etc.

[@johnsonspark171]

Game will be beyond dead by then. Flats knows this which is why he is going to stop streaming it. Really sad what the devs do to the game just because the worst players, on the easiest role, in the worst ranks in the game complain. Maybe the metal support players should try to get good without having their hands held by Blizzard?

[@gamabussy]

One of the main reasons why I never listen to Samito, you think he’s gonna make a good point, then he starts being super condescending and never makes a valid point. He is just rage rage rage all masked by long sentences and elongated anecdotes about nothing

[@johnsonspark171]

@@gamabussy except in this case him and Flats are 100% right. Supports are ruining the game and it's only going to get worse in S4. We are going to end up back at Echo release levels of players by the end of this

[@jm0112]

@@johnsonspark171 "supports are playing dead by daylight" "supports are so strong they ruin the game". Why don't we just remove all the support and tanks heros so you can have your perfect game. That sounds like a great idea to me.

[@jm0112]

Doomer and babyraging before the patch has even came out. We have a mid season patch if this is too much. We can't ask them to take risks and cry when they actually do. As always Freedos the most sensible person. All the tanks get giga buffed and people still can't chill

[@ReaveIdono]

Facts

[@nickjohnson7666]

Flats is such a doomer man

[@MistaMiyagi_]

What’s a doomer

[@elijahlunt276]

Seriously.

[@MistaMiyagi_]

@@elijahlunt276 yea idk 🤷‍♂️

[@nickjohnson7666]

It’s someone who’s always negative/sad/brings others down

[@endless_del]

​@MistaMiyagi_ someone who looks at anything and is 100% certain, all the time, that the worst case scenario WILL happen regardless of any other factor or nuanced information

[@moneybagsdubas3490]

Anecdotal but all of the friends I play with like the patch. We're just plat scrubs but we like literally every change. It's clear that they are trying to keep their more casual players happy and all those changes piss off the elite players in this podcast.

[@mrap4249]

I'm plat/gold and I hate Moira buff

[@skarloeythomas5172]

You liked the Genji patches?

[@pingufan1239]

The severity of this new fade change to Moira is comparable to that one buff they gave her a couple years ago which allowed her to fade out or shatter or stuns. (They later removed that)

[@-JSRE]

Flats is exhausting to listen to, and he keeps getting worse with time. He has personified the reactionary OMGWTF?1?1!!????! for clicks that is the stereotype and he is not interested in attempting to look at things objectively. When he starts his rants that gradually go higher in pitch, his arguments become more and more in bad faith. Just so exhausting. Samito shares a lot of similar opinions but is willing to look at things objectively as well. I remember when Flats was like "gg 5v5 is going to kill the game" and that is how his brain works. I dread when he comes on the show at this point. Freedo? Great. SVB? Fantastic as always. Samito? Questionable at times but very articulate and adds a lot to the discussion. Flats? I guess he generates clips with his overreactions? Great video overall, SVB. Keep up the great work!

[@darkdomination89]

Flats - "supports are impactful" Flats in the same sentence: "if you get a support pick first in a fight it means literally nothing" K.

[@BombaKingCoop]

I see flats complaining alot. But it seems like its all higher ranking player just want to be able to bully supports without repercussions. It's like "damn this team is protecting the hell out of their (insert support), theyre obviously a broken character and unfun to play againat." nah man you're just not respecting their space

[@duel2803]

i think suzu, and lamp are the main thing people are talking about when they say support is unfun to play against. you just press a button and you are unable to die that’s not fair😭 . if i kill you after a mercy res comes through then i gotta go thought that whole shit again

[@BombaKingCoop]

​@@duel2803 I hear alot of complaints about zen and the new brig too. Immortality abilities are necessary. It's not like suzu or immortality is on a short cooldown or last awhile. One is destroyable! You can bait those abilities before fully committing or trying to kill. Like hogs take a breather. But most people have a tendency to think "someone else will get the immortality" so it never dies and neither does the person in it. A support using a characters abilities at an optimal time shouldn't be seen as an issue. Just something you have to learn to play around

[@MrClonedzero]

Do they not realize its an Ult? and not all the time? It's only for a few seconds... Like countless ults could counter brigs ult? if you're super worried bout it, just trade ults? If you argue about an ult, without mentioning other ults as counters, then every ult seems so powerful. Brig ults? Ok use an area denial ult (torb, mei, hanzo, ect.)

[@stellarisk2822]

I mean theoretically; sombra's hack disables shields. It should disable brig's shield.

[@tomKATT92]

I'm so excited for this new patch woo! Lets go Brig mains!

[@aryferreira2375]

Lets go.... we are cooking

[@SteveFard]

like support weren't already boosted, now they're gonna have a field day

[@aryferreira2375]

@@SteveFard Yeah...

[@comedial6829]

“Woo I’m excited for my already low skill hero to be even more low skill!”

[@aryferreira2375]

@@comedial6829 any problem with that ? :D

[@CelestSpyder]

I like Flats, but both flats and once again Samito are overracting about the rework. Ow2 is totally different, than ow1. Its 5v5 now, new heroes have been added, and the whole shield change for brig is ONLY her ult, its not like she has it all the time.

[@Barrett1]

She charges ult every fight

[@stellarisk2822]

Yeah… that’s the idea of an ult… yknow who else charges an ult every fight? Every other hero lol

[@Aurora12488]

I honestly think Skiesti's idea of lowering the HP is the right call. Make her 175 but give her the S2 movement. Even in the metal ranks Mercy had been waaay outliving the rest of her team. If that's still not enough, slow her GA speed by 10%, raise the cooldown to 1.7s (but a real 1.7s, not the S4 weirdness of "the 1.5s cooldown doesn't start until the 1.5s tech cooldown cooldown finishes"), and call it a day. Just baby steps, not what they're doing now which is making huge, bizarre changes that are gutting the skill expression and fun of the character.

[@johnsonspark171]

Maybe Skiesti could learn to play a hero that takes skill instead or just shut up and get back in the kitchen

[@jonathanm5894]

Idk the original issue was “I can’t land ONE shot on Mercy, she slingshots all over the map every other second”. Less health and optimal S2 movement might not solve it either.

[@johnsonspark171]

@@jonathanm5894 TBH Mercy hit box is way too small. You could double her hit box and leave her at 200hp and that may fix the issue

[@Aurora12488]

@Jonathan M That's why I included very small tweaks to her GA speed and cooldown. Touching both by ~10% I'm sure would be sufficient.

[@leejohnson898]

The Group Up Podcast has turned into the Group Up and Complain Podcast

[@zc8673]

I agree with them about Zen, as a support/tank player it's broken on both sides. But some of flats and samitos takes are so completely disconnected from reality. They contradict themselves constantly within the same rants, with zero factual basis just pure emotional bias. (Not to mention the t500 bias.) I wish SVB would have some of the other guests on more often. Fareeha was a fantastic guest in recent memory. These podcats are starting to feel more like group therapy for flats and samito.

[@kylepackard7499]

They tend to be negative, but the conversation is far more fruitful when they talk about things they dislike or want changed rather than things they like. If they only talked about things they like, this chat would be calling them corporate shills. Imagine, for example, all they did was talk about how great the battle pass is or how reasonable the shop prices are relative to other games that have $100 weapon skins.

[@TheHankScorpio]

@@kylepackard7499 But "Season 4 Patch Debate" has nothing to do with the BP or Shop, it is 100% the gameplay changes. Many moments in this talk about things they like, but many of these are asides to heighten the endless anger brought on by Brig/GOATS PTSD which never went anywhere apart from "Brig will be OP because Zen is OP"

[@Hthe]

​@Z C your acting like freedo and svb didn't have trash takes as well. Because they definitely did

[@Hotasianchick]

​@@TheHankScorpio >Brig will be OP because Zen is OP How bad does your reading comprehension have to be to actually derive that conclusion from the debate, please comsider joining your 8th grade English class again