The HIDDEN COSTS of a HAAS VF2-SS | Pierson Workholding

[@wannabecarguy]

I bought a vf2ss used with all the options and probe . 60k. Moving costs were 2k.

[@benwilms3942]

I'm glad Pierson Workholding is having the success it is. It seems like every thing a good workshop should want to be.

[@andrewmoore6108]

Ironic. We had a haas sales guy in last week to talk about getting a new vf. That $20K discount is long gone. It doesn't take many options to put a vf2 into the 6 digit price territory

[@matthewlee8917]

Love your transparency and willingness to share information. Much appreciated and when the time is right I’ll be adding some of you products to my shop.

[@brianwaayenberg3099]

Please do a quick vid on how you rigged up that 4th axis lift!!! :):) mcmaster links would be great too!

[@dankennedy9520]

They drilled a hole in the top to use a strap....it only weighs 90 to 120 lbs..just grab it and stab it...I did granite countertops for 17 years...metal is not heavy no more...

[@CGSW]

Ha, I bought a used Kitamura 8 years ago with no way of easily unhooking the 4th. So I did like you and hoisted it in the corner until I could figure out a better solution. It is still there, as it is WAY better than removing it!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I love it! 8 years on a hoist and still safe! Proving the naysayers wrong.

[@plankro8]

The way that you winch that rotary is gangster, that free space in the machine can be now useful. I guess the only issue is stuff getting on it and coolant getting on it, but I mean you could spray it down with preventative, and then wipe it off before use I love it. Thanks guys.

[@perrosenberg158]

I had a new vf2ss delivered 6 weeks ago. The right side panel was bowed about 1/2" from poor assembly from The factory aswell as a dented corner on one of the SMTC cover panels, also caused during assembly AT The oxnard factory. The tool holder vise shiped was BT but SMTC arm had CT as ordered. Reported to my hfo but sofar NO actions to solve these issues.

[@chrisyboy666]

Haas are cheap weak fragile poorly built machines you get what you pay for….

[@alexkern9134]

Our remote jog handle was on the floor one day because the holder failed. We gave up on our auto doors. The crappy plastic rack keeps peeling up so we gave up. There was a fix from haas but that lasted about a month.

[@vladomelko]

@@chrisyboy666 Having a Haas Mill, I strongly disagree. Very good machines for there price range.

[@ryanbeard1119]

Sounds like the mafia is involved, breakdown in communication, and suckers will just give up.

[@DGil504]

Wow this a great video of how your inspection process is, and should always be. Very detailed and informative. The winch setup is so legit! Keep it simple while making your setups work flawlessly! Great job sir!

[@gillisdebilio4516]

Cool video. One other hidden cost is down time. While the riggers are getting the machine in place, we have to move work tables and close our machines for a day to give them space.

[@thewyliestcoyote]

What was the time between placing the order and taking delivery?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I've seen 4-8 weeks but this machine was pre-built and in stock. Signed the check and it arrived 3 days later.

[@Awfultyming]

On a machine I run have changed the adjustable coolant nozzle to spray the table free of chips rather than the cutter (that is getting blasted) so when the doors open I only spray off my parts and have less to worry about for a chip to get stuck and cause me to make a bad part

[@sharg0]

That filter kit is good but ridiculously expensive. On a previous job they had bought one without it and my predecessor wasn't bothered by cleaning and maintenance... One messy (and late) replacement of cutting fluid I simply put a generic filter weave over the return and viola, all the small chips got caught.

[@vaughanscott7308]

Its a pleasure watching a professional go about his business.

[@ricardo-iw9sq]

A guy down the road took delivery of a st30 lathe, had it commissioned running first job and the cabinet went up in flames, had it repaired and the door handle fell off, you can look over the machine with a fine tooth comb and miss something but as long as you have warranty your laughing as in regards of cnc systems.

[@catttcattt]

If you run a CNC workshop you know Pierson(if this is your name) is a genius. For my workshop I have always wanted to be able to switch on and off the 4th axis as fast as possible. What we usually do is we move the rotary table to a tabletop next to the side door of the machine with all the cables still connected. The tricky part is after the side door is removed you have to put back some form of soft plastic curtain to keep the coolant from shooting out. There are several problems. Firstly, moving the heavy rotary table out of the machine is a very challenging task and poses high safety risks for the employees.The direct drives are generally fine but the wormgear type usually weighs a ton. Secondly, the makeshit curtain is sometimes prone to leaking of coolant because of all the cables. Thridly, it takes time to reindicate the rotary table each time you return it back. To winch the rotary table up but to keep it inside the enclosure may not look nice but it is so damn practical. It solves all of my problems. No moving, no leaking and no indicating(by palletizing). What a lesson I have learned from youtube! Please, keep up the good work of your vlogs and letting more and more people know how a genius you are!!!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I don't know about the genius part, but I know we excel in always asking if there's a better way to do things.

[@shareNenjoy]

Thanks for your video. Quality content -- especially, showing your external air filter magnet mount idea!

[@hyperformancellc]

I bought a Haas first of the year and it had broken welds and lots of scrapes. Phililps wouldnt do anything about it. It even took calls to haas in california before they would even address odd scraping noises the machine was making new. Then they said that I didn't want them to take apart my machine because even if its scraping on something its better for that to wear away then them take apart the covers because they wouldn't be able to put it back together right. I now have a big lemon sticker stuck above the haas emblem and I am making the switch to mazak.

[@scottknight1301]

Have you looked at a brothers or YCM? Nice machines. Do you have other Mazak in your shop already? I'm only asking because a lot of guys like them and a lot hate them.

[@hyperformancellc]

@@scottknight1301 I have not. Buying a machine is so much about your local factory outlet. If they suck then the machine is about useless when there is a problem. My first haas was set up by a drunk tech who crashed the machine. My second was set up by a guy who had to read the instructions. When I had problems I was told that I just didnt know how to run the machine. When I finaly proved the inconsistency in the x axis they replaced the motor and driver with USED components off another machine. The sub spindle to this day is unusable and haas wont do anything about it. If you are a younger business owner and live in the south east RUN from Philips. Their sales person last time he was here got into my face when I said I was not going to order my 5 axis from them until they fixed the y axis lathes issues. He stood there jabbing me in the chest with his finger explaining to me why machines have problems and sometimes you just pay 20k for a sub spindle and if it makes grinding noises then you just live with it. After they left one of my associates who was there said "if a fourth haas comes into this building I stop coming in" When I was calling around to look at other machines MAZAK and Okuma both came out with their tech guys so I could meet the people I would be dealing with. I was very impressed with both and I just liked the Mazak controller better.... and well the price was closer to what I was prepared to spend on the haas. Haas makes nice stuff. I Love my haas machines and If I could buy from another factory outlet I would but haas wont allow that unless I move states away.

[@scottknight1301]

@@hyperformancellc totally understand that. We happen to have a good Haas HFO near us but that's beside the point. Any sales guy that pokes a customer is asking for a free tour of the local ER . Mazak can be a nice machine( controller preference for some but not myself), my dad loves his and is a big fan. At our shop we have two less then 2 years old and their techs practically live at the shop so I'm not a fan. Always dumb stuff too. Okuma though. Nice nice machine.

[@hyperformancellc]

@@scottknight1301 we seriously considered moving to another area to get a new HFO. would have had to move so far we would have lost all our customers though.

[@scottknight1301]

@@hyperformancellc that's insane but I understand at the same time. Good luck to you.

[@shirothehero0609]

The tiny filters - that's a great idea. I've used non-scented dryer sheets for filtration, but the filter is a great idea.

[@JackOfAllTradesMON]

Interesting fact about the blue cosmolene. Haas was applying too much and Customers complained. A local lubricant supplier in Houston Texas supplies the blue cosmolene. This company told Haas to put on less to get the same corrosion protection. What company tells you to use less of their product we at The Nut Place in Houston Texas buy all of our lubricants from Gates Engineered Lubricants. Great company!

[@gamingpc3475]

Was the rotary included in the 60k? Even if it wasn’t, that was a pretty decent price on it.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

No, we already owned it and reassigned it to this machine.

[@spencerstromberg]

I thought we were the only shop that winched our 4th axis out of the way, only what we do is tie a rope around the chuck and crank the knob, then the rope wraps around the chuck pulling itself up, then we use a carabiner to hold it up suspended from the machine enclosure. that way there's no load and no risk of it falling.

[@scottwatrous]

Awesome video and relatable. One thing that wasn't factored in with the prices that you had there was the whole 4th axis unit. I assume that was already owned, but that can add a chunk of cash to the equation for sure if you had to factor that in.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Great point! Yes, we already owned it but it could easily add $10k.

[@kevinc9006]

I suggest a spindle warmup anytime machine is down overnight.....actually first thing in the morning, run the spindle warm up. Because, they will make sure you did if premature failure of spindle happens.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I second that approach. Every machine in our shop runs a warmup program every morning and spindle problems have never happened.

[@itsDGW]

We’ve had 4 haas VF2YT’s for about a month now. Great little machines.

[@stonecraft745]

Cool! Could you tell why you chose a VF2 instead of a DT?

[@kleini3]

Great idea to let the 4 axis inside the machine! Studer grinding machines can something similar where u can lift the tailstock via screw/rail system and just slide them away

[@MakeItWithCalvin]

I really like videos like this that show the realities of manufacturing and the costs no one thinks of. The hanging 4th is balzy but I like it too. At one of my old jobs, we had a Mazak with a 4th, and installing/removing it was a total nightmare and almost landed my boss in the hospital a few times when it slipped so I know what a pain they can be!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Thanks! Balzy to hang the 4th... I'd rather risk dropping it in the machine than anyone dropping into the hospital. Hope your boss is ok!

[@MakeItWithCalvin]

@@PiersonWorkholding Oh this was YEARS ago but yea, he was okay but it was always stressful... But overall if it works, it works!

[@paulmace7910]

The only thing I would do is add a fixed support for the rotary head. I’m a little nervous having it hanging from a cable while the machine is running. Something simple bolted to the sheet metal.

[@scottwatrous]

I was thinking too some kind of stainless sheet metal shelf or shelf bracket rails; not only would it hopefully secure it a little better it would just look neat and tidy.

[@benwilms3942]

Or just an overhead deadstop that you could winch it up against, like an upside down saddle. And I'd put a little idler pulley on those suspended lines, which seems excessive, but I've seen lots of lines get tagged when booming up and down top head drive drill derricks, and a tensioned traversing pully is a surprisingly simple solve.

[@anzezaberl7935]

I was thinking about same thing. Maybe at least add some secondary protection and holding in case a winch or cable fails. Would be an expensive accident if it does.

[@toolingwoman53]

Even though I don't personally buy machines, I like to always be learning more about what my customers experience as they're growing their shops. This was really insightful.

[@danohpsp]

Haas are Chevy's in a world of Cadillacs. For 10K-15K more you could get a Brother S700X. You could also get a Robodrill. Both of those machines are faster. The Brother is more rigid. The positioning is better on both and the chip evacuation is better. Brother is the only thing my shop buys at this point it keeps running and is blazingly fast.

[@YerBrwnDogAteMyRabit]

2nd time I've heard "robodrill" in 24 hrs, now I HAVE TO check it out. Just the name sounds cool as hell. I just got my NIMS certs (and factory Haas, which are kind of a joke) and would rather have a great machine in the garage than a car. So maybe Robodrill and a bus pass it is

[@buds207]

How about sharing your 3D printed corner brackets? Would love to incorporate them into our shop. Thanks!!

[@saulpena8939]

could you do a video on the winch system or leave a parts list for mcmaste carr. Anything helps also a video on the smart plate would be great and or pictures of it on the website.

[@Mindbulletz]

Informative video. Why are montages in machining videos always set to music that should be in a Ford commercial though?

[@plankro8]

Also, may I ask why you went with Haas instead of MaZak? because I’m looking to get one of the other I’ve had mazelike before and I like the much heavier machine in the inclusion of some tools and holders. Sorry to bother just wondering. .

[@hulkaplasta6558]

So it is advisable to buy a Haas machine or they are very fragile in general, a haas seller came to offer me a vr2 for 78k, the machine is the most basic

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I don't think fragile is the right word. There are better machines and there are worse machines. I think Haas has the best value, service and resources for the vast majority of shops. I wouldn't recommend a VF for a small garage if just starting out and I wouldn't recommend a VF in a giant, tight-tolerance medical device company.

[@shopdreamin372]

Very good video. I'm setting up a Haas vf4 with those same plates. I think we counted that we can fit 4 pallets for MAXIMUM PART DENSITY. Does mounting the vice on the pallet compromise rigidity at all?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

It's as rigid as bolting it to the table. Use the 10x12 size pallets for single and double station vises.

[@shopdreamin372]

@@PiersonWorkholding I'm envisioning a plate replicating the machine table mounted in as many vacuum plates as you can fit. Easily interchangeable with various fixtures for relative jobs. Capable of utilizing the full machine travel for large/one off jobs while also quickly setup for production work as soon as that PO comes in. At the expense of only a few inches of z axis travel you can take your milling machine to the next level.

[@sharg0]

One more important note about extras when buying a new machine. Carefully go through the list and check what options are possible/reasonable to add at a later date (when/if need arises). Things that might seem simple like air through tooling might not be possible (but oh my is it great to have, quickly moves chips away from the cutting zone without the mess of cutting fluid and no micro-cracking of carbide tooling due to temperature chocks). If you don't know what a feature is fore, research it! What are your needs next year? Spending some hours on options can make a huge difference. Imagine buying a brand new machine and half a year later realize you need an option you can't get as "bolt on". Or wasting money on something expensive that never got used. So don't stop with your current skill level - extend your knowledge!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Very good point. I paid $995 for "Through Spindle Coolant Ready" in case we need to upgrade the machine in the field. You don't want to save pennies that will cost you dollars if you can't do a bolt-on upgrade.

[@sharg0]

@@PiersonWorkholding And through tool cutting fluid really gets where it's needed, be it at the tip of a drill to evacuate chips fr a deep hole, at each insert of a huge face mill or the end of solid carbide tooling. (Personally I find the programmable nossle a rather lame compromise - to often it can't reach or is on the wrong side.)

[@SuperAgentman007]

It’s around $17,000 in the machine you have I don’t know how much they charge for shipping and set up

[@ObsidiansArms]

You mind posting a link to that 3D part for holding filters?

[@kahiausouza4607]

Hey Jay, Love your videos, I don't know if you'll see this 2 years after this video, but I'm a fellow lean maniac, how do you balance the methodology of high density mounting within your machines, and one piece flow to eliminate the batch work methodology where if something is defective then all the pieces your running end up being defective as well?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

That's a great question! I don't think there's a magic formula but I prefer smaller pallet sizes with fewer number of parts. Material from scrapped parts and the actual cost of power are the only true costs that are lost. I always attribute payroll losses associated with scrap to the cost of educating our team.

[@michaelw5456]

Knife safety man, never cut anything pulling towards your body! Just found your channel, great work! Loved your talk about implementing LEAN or as you would rather call it FLOW. You earned a new subscriber. Currently running a Makino PS105 and using Solidworks/Camworks! 14 years ( mainly in sinker edm/hole popper edm (cnc 4 to 5 axis) a year of wire, and now Milling and CMM work is my home.

[@mikejohns4626]

It's a early Sunday morning here in Prescott, AZ. I'm scrolling You Tube for cool content to enjoy while savoring my morning coffee... when I come across this video. Though I work with manufacturers who mill parts, your video is so well done that I had to "Like" and subscribe! My company makes a clear, 4 layer machine film called a "TearOff" stack to protect the windows in Haas CNC mills from scratching, pitting and danage from the milling process. If you've seen TearOffs on the windshield of NASCAR racecars, or the goggle of a motocross rider... that's us TearOff Products. My question to PW is, how is your new VF2-SS windows after 1 year of milling? I'd really like to see what that looks like, with no protection. Outside of that, great job, very impressive work and company. Thanks and have a great day!

[@briancatrine3825]

Really like that lift for your 4th axis. I was able to find the winch but it looks like you have a custom made guide to go from horizontal to vertical lifting?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes. Anyone can email us and we'll send the model. questions(at)piersonworkholding.com

[@ClockwerkIndustries]

man that 4th axis winch is excellent!

[@nubtools]

Great information as usual. Nice shameless product plug too. The VF2 is my favorite 3axis milling machine. Totally going to be implementing the cabinet air filter idea immediately. Thanks!

[@YCM30cnc]

Nice video @Piersonworkholding …… plenty of pros and cons in the comments about brand X vs brand y. Your vids helped me make a decision to put a TM2P in the garage shop / side hustle in ‘19 and have had no regrets. Machine does what it’s intended to do, make 💰💰in the nights and weekends side hustle 😂😂😂.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Glad to hear! A lot of the commenters forget that it's less about the machine and more about the machinist. Congrats on your success!

[@moonryder203]

That's a nice idea getting that 4th axis out the way like that! That extension side plate seems like a winner also.

[@LSDdreams808]

We have about 300 of these at my job. They run 24/7 im more of fan of the newer screens vs older ones

[@구지면흑탄두]

wow amazing ! where is your company ?

[@TeslaAtoms]

Just wondering, does haas guarantee any geometrical dimension precision for each machine? Like, ballbar or interferometer results?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes, inspection is done at the factory and a report is provided. The factory tests must fall within specs or it doesn't ship.

[@buddhimanivantha6719]

Love your valuable videos. keep up the good work.

[@themattrixrevolution]

Excellent ideal to have a winch system for the trunnion. Those suckers are heavy

[@mrechbreger]

I wonder can you use an alternative controller with this HAAS machine? Can you show some more details about the motor drives/drivers and electronics?

[@odingarberggule9693]

Shouldent be a problem, its all servos and motors, tho costly to change out the system usually but fully doable

[@franciscoanconia2334]

Haas is very strict about using only their controller. If you want Fanuc or Siemmens. (or even LinuxCNC which with ethercat servos is quite capable), you'll probably have to look elsewhere.

[@odingarberggule9693]

@@franciscoanconia2334 ofc, but just retrofit it yourself, warranty is prob out of the window anyways if youre thinking about doing it

[@socalventures1]

I don't think I've seen a person inspect something as meticulous as I did at my last job. (And they let me go) I always found what everyone missed.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

They didn't deserve you! The best machinists are the most detailed people.

[@Thewaldo12345]

Why not get the VF4 and leave the 4th on there? Other than cost.

[@richhuntsd12]

Nicely Done Jay, I had to chuckle a bit about the external Air Filters. Cool Idea, but I bet you don't have to change them very often as clean as Your shop is. I like the mini hoist idea too, pretty cool. How big of tool changer do You usually buy. I personally kick myself for not purchasing the larger ones, but " Oh Well Lesson Learned"

[@PiersonWorkholding]

You'd be surprised how much crap is floating around a "clean" shop. Tool changers - typically 30 tools but I recommend a big TC if you're a job shop.

[@anikidwolfy]

Blasting compressed air through only blasts the dust back in the air. The filters capture it, it makes sense in a clean shop but in a welding place it's just a waste of money so take the depreciation. The machines can easily handle dust but it's also slightly cleaning the air for the shop instead of a dedicated unit.

[@EZ_shop]

Love the content, and the classy delivery. You are such a likable guy. Can't get enough of your videos. Ciao, Marco.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Thank you for the kind words. We'll keep the content coming!

[@bcbloc02]

Information is knowledge and sharing it is always valuable. Thanks!

[@cuccia22-70]

Just came up on this video. And channel. Am here in slo north from you. I work at a machine shop. We use haas . They are a work horse machine. Not the highest quality but they are reliable.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Very cool!

[@fischertechrobots]

Is the unloading from the truck and the forklift plus driver really part of Haas?

[@willgallatin2802]

Sadly no. I'm not aware of any outfit that makes machines willing to go that step. I've always had to arrange for pickup at regional distributor, and delivery at the shop.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes, the $1,100 includes freight and rigging to unload the machine and place it on the floor.

[@mjohns5944]

I got a new one of these in last year with all the extras....great little machine. The year before I got an ST20. ...and I have just taken delivery of a new TL2..with all extras. Really happy with the TL and the higher speed spindle (3000 rpm). Just getting used to the touch screen. Problem is of course here in the UK the prices quoted on here are what we pay in pounds.

[@estevanjuarez9571]

That’s paint blemish was a power coat running and the grabbed the DA and sanded it down …. I worked there for a year

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Is it too late for us to fix it in-house? Something like polishing it?

[@Splincir]

Dang... I have a VF2SS picked out with less options than what you have there and their quote is 94,275. I need to have whatever magic you had worked on that total. If I could shave off 30k I could afford more of the tools and equipment I need to get my shop up and running. Not to mention the CAM software costs.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

It was an amazing sale that I absolutely could not pass up. I don't think we'll see prices like that again.

[@LordOfChaos.x]

Does this cnc mill have temperature 🌡 correction?

[@loukola5353]

Yes, in your dreams.

[@LordOfChaos.x]

@@loukola5353 oh so no?

[@Iceberg86300]

@@LordOfChaos.x they use a mathematical model to approximate & correct for ball screw expansion & contraction during use. Works pretty well IIRC. But if you want any kind of "hard" compensation the only answer is linear scales & I don't think they were even an option on such a small machine. VM's maybe. Outside of that you might be able to pull it off with probing & macros. But the best solution will always be a climate controlled shop and if you're making stuff where that isn't enough, you most likely shouldn't be looking at a Haas.

[@LordOfChaos.x]

@@Iceberg86300 oh i see Thanks for the explanation I was looking for a new 3 axis machine But i quess i will buy the DMG M1 if what u just said is true Since it offers it at just 60.000 euros starting price

[@Iceberg86300]

@@LordOfChaos.x no problem. I didn't see anything about temp comp or linear scales on the DMG, just "thermal stability." Do you have a link? And w/o scales they're probably doing the same thing as Haas. But I've been out of the game ~11 years, so don't go making decisions w/o verifying my info.

[@texasermd1]

Great behind the scenes video once again. Always look forward to see the inner workings of your shop. Do you have plans to show off your robotic systems again? 👍🏼👍🏼

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes, we're definitely doing a second "season" of the robot series.

[@ManuelRamcanny]

If someone wanted updated numbers. My quote says 6k just for delivery to my shop. 90k total for a VF-1 with probe and TSC.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I've never heard of anything close to 6k for delivery. Where are you located?

[@ManuelRamcanny]

@@PiersonWorkholding The mexican side of Texas border. Export is another 2k.

[@PearComputingDevices]

You mention a manifold, but I didn't see a mention of ventilation. Depending on material and coolant of course you definitely want to use some kind of torit hepa filter or something. I can't imagine you would just let that vent unfiltered, right? I am probably jumping ahead but I would also think it's worth mentioning. Outstanding video otherwise.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

We put Mistaway collectors on every machine. 5 stage filtration ending with an activated charcoal screen.

[@MrChancebozey]

Thanx for sharing your experience. Great vid :)

[@aurelianmunteanu7680]

Thanks for the transparency!

[@narzedziowniawbudowie]

brilliant solution with this lift for 4 axes!

[@MaxMustermann-zv8kq]

Haas = only for aluminium or similar materials and for tolerances above +-0.10 mm

[@mythattak]

Fantastic video. Thank you!

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

very good video pierson

[@Kirito14682]

Wow it's cheaper than I thought. I thought it was 100k not saying 60k is cheap but cheaper than I expected.

[@matth1210]

The chip conveyor is usless on the vf2ss its not good at all at moving the chips compared to the vf4ss. I know its a bigger motor on the vf4 but is really poor from haas

[@birdpump]

Don't know about the filters. Those low pressure fans might struggle.

[@zunuf]

That 4th axis looks sketchy, but it does seem like a good idea. Haas should make some option with a winch, but then you can put bolts through the ceiling to the rotary for extra safety. Or maybe have some kind of fold-out shelf.

[@wannabecarguy]

Liability.

[@zunuf]

​@@wannabecarguyI often think there's not enough lawyers in the world. Thank goodness we have people like you to fill in and shoot down random ideas on the internet. Haas should probably just stop making all of their products because they are all inherently dangerous.

[@franciscoanconia2334]

I made a cart that gets trough the side and allows me to place the 4th axis and take it out trough the side window. I did however, had to cut the sheetmetal (ugggg). But it works just fine and looks tidy. Also, after a while, all that material just stiking around the 4th axis is a pain to clean between jobs.

[@strangevisions5162]

@@zunuf"Thank goodness we have people like you to fill in and shoot down random ideas on the internet." why get mad at some guy telling the truth? he didn't make the laws or the lawyers, nor did he make people sue.

[@zunuf]

​@@strangevisions5162 Because it's a useless comment. Pointing out the obvious doesn't make for interesting conversation or innovation. We live in a world with skydiving, roller coasters, fireworks, etc etc. Safety and liability matter, but people who flatly dismiss things like he did, ignore the nuance of how the world actually works. The whole point of my comment was to come up with a SAFER version of what Pierson is doing. To me it was comical that Haas can sell giant lathes and gantry machines, but a shelf that holds a couple hundred pounds is far too dangerous.

[@franciscoanconia2334]

I got a pretty decent brand new 40x20 VMC ATC 4th Axis installed from china for just 18,500USD. Was going to buy Haas, but in the end the hidden costs angered me. Been quite happy with my purchase, everything is standarized, I can order components from a lot of different vendors. The spindle is robust. Ballswcrews from HIWIN in Taiwan... very happy with my purchase.

[@shaneduffy4853]

Where did you order it , shipping included ?

[@alldayy]

What brand? Model?

[@franciscoanconia2334]

@@shaneduffy4853 Shipping was not included, but I ordered also a lathe, a gear hobber, a hydraulic press and a bandsaw. The whole container was less than 2000USD. Customs was somewhat around 400USD. For all the machines I payed about 55k. All new, no problems at all. The controls are GSK, run smoothly and fast, they may be lacking some fancy options like spline (G5), but overall they run quite well. On the CNC I got cheap and bought the semi-open enclosure (full enclosure is about 1500usd more), and would recommend buying the full enclosure. The business is called Tengzhou Bouri, I bought it trough alibaba with trade assurance, no problems at all.

[@franciscoanconia2334]

@@alldayy Tengzhou Borui XK1050

[@Iceberg86300]

@@franciscoanconia2334 what "hidden" costs? You talking about options?

[@K_M_M_G]

Amazing video! I’ve been looking at a VF2 but was nervous of the extra costs. HAAS, I’m looking for a similar discount - if I get it, I’ll gladly purchase one

[@conceptsken1]

GREAT VIDEO

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Thank you! Hope you've been sticking with us for our latest videos!

[@hillfortherstudios2757]

Thanks for the video it was really informative. The fact that the machining industry is so incredibly capital intensive is the reason that I didn't start a shop myself. When I started my own business, I wanted to find a way to get the elements of manufacturing that I liked without as many of the other factors as reasonably possible. I just didn't want to drop a few hundred grand! Personal preference of course. Thanks again guys!

[@mrcpu9999]

This was very enjoyable. You have a good presentation smile. Don't stop cranking out vids.

[@coolguygolf4230]

Great stuff Jay, as always.

[@adamt581]

We have two and have had to replace the balls crews after two years because they can't hold their tolerance specs, none of our other Haas machines we have to do this with. My advice don't get an ss.

[@daphoosa]

This is truth. Nobody talks about how the SS option reduces accuracy and reduces ball screw life while proving an insignificant cycle time reduction. Haas only added the SS option to compete on the spec sheet, not because it makes a better machine. I worked for 8 years at a company that ran 500 Haas mills doing both part making and mold cutting. Don't get me started on Z fiction compensation or notch filters on Haas machines.

[@franciscoanconia2334]

@@daphoosa yeah... for fast milling you absolutely need chilled guides and temp-control on the ballscrew, something DMG is very capable of.

[@qdp03]

Is that koenig arius 👀8:05

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes! My EDC.

[@CrashingCarbide]

“Let’s take off this plastic” whips out a Koenig Arius. (Made on his pallets I believe)

[@PiersonWorkholding]

That's right!

[@protocolpalpatine]

The filters don't stop graphite lol

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Filters stop particles larger than their rating. Buy accordingly.

[@sschueller]

Sorry to say but if I purchased such an expensive item I would expect it to be in perfect condition out of the factory. Missing seals is unacceptable and not my job to find out if they are installed correctly. Things like this would make me look for another machine maker with focus on what leaves the factory.

[@3markaw]

Then you would be paying more money and still you would have problems. Even expensive machines have problems from the factory. I know because I used to fix them. It may be less often but there is no 100 percent perfect production / transport history and you are only fooling yourself if you think there is. If you buy a cheaper car you can not be surprised if it has a problem when new but when you buy an expensive car guess what , sometimes you also have problems when new from the factory. I know plenty of people who bought the overpriced imported "luxury " car and issues and troubles that came with car. The difference is when you buy a cheaper car that still gets you from location a to location b you keep all the money you would have wasted on a fancy car in your pocket.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

As if perfection has no cost?

[@bikefarmtaiwan1800]

Nice video - big bucks for sure . you checked the machine well but did not seem to comment that the spindle was directly blocked to the table for shipping :( It should never be the spindle but the spindle housing .😂

[@PiersonWorkholding]

The spindle housing was blocked to the table. Haas has a special bracket for that. Open your eyes 🤣

[@ladinred5733]

So, why did you wait so long to get it?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Because of the ridiculous sale price.

[@nobody617]

I dont know what this machine is used for, but i like it. I kinda want one now. Is it a robot dentist or something? I think my friends would like it. Put it in my man cave.

[@stanleyvladimirweatherfiel6828]

60k for a machine that will make you an incredible amount of money. Amazing... And rappers are buying used luxury cars for that much.

[@zachwolf5122]

Funny seeing a $30 drill making a hole in a $60k machine

[@micgalovic]

8:05 Koenig arius spotted

[@superheracross89]

Cheaper then a datron

[@samgreer8596]

I'd be willing to bet money $ the fans on the side of your machine are discharging hot air, not blowing in ambient air. As such, placing a filter over them is pointless and counterproductive. With the machine running hold your hand near the fans and check the direction of airflow. You're welcome.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Ohhh you mean we're supposed to filter air going INTO the machine? Wow, thanks! Boy, building a company is easy but figuring out airflow direction... really tough! Thank you for your expertise!

[@CNC_Soup]

@piersonworkholding LOL! I think that dude should be more concerned with the hot air that comes out of his drunk-ass mouth. The filter idea is fantastic and any sane person knows you know what you're doing.

[@billdoodson4232]

Watched a number of these unpacking videos. They all have the same thing on them, the unpacking guy uses a fancy knife; thats blunt.????

[@justindonajkowski336]

60k!.......I just got a quoted a vf2 loaded for 85k!!!! 🙈🙈🎂🎂

[@justinm4323]

is that with a rotary?

[@justindonajkowski336]

@@justinm4323 heck no 85k doesn't get you a rotary just auger, high pressure, probe, and hsm.

[@justinm4323]

@@justindonajkowski336 I paid 79K delivered for a VF2 30 tool changer, auger, Though spindle coolant, probe, HSM, 4th axis HRC 210. 7 months ago.

[@aarontracy6015]

Sales tax isn't Uncle Sam, that is you local tyrants.

[@dford344]

I would never buy one.

[@Rosielovestheworld]

how does a machinist afford one

[@aaronreihl39]

You find parts to make on it that pays $65 an hour, 40 hours a week. It's paid off in less than a year. It's not a toy, you buy one to make money with.

[@Rosielovestheworld]

wow thank u

[@aj7utu]

You don’t buy a $50k truck.

[@thegrandwazooofheliopolis4344]

@@aaronreihl39 lol. You grow pot in it. Program a long dwell M9 cycle and water the plants once a day with an M8 cycle. Then, you high speed trim those buds using MasterCam at an additional 15K. After 9 months, you make a months worth of mortgage for your home. Brilliant! (I'm being sarcastic and face-palmed at that question. I'm sure you did too.)