The Internet Is Confused About Narcissism

[@cLuStErBMiLkShAkE]

Thank you for your channel! I hope more people learn the truth about this disorder and steer away from those that demonize us. SHARING!

[@healnpd]

Thanks for watching. :-)

[@namastea]

If narcissists behave like demons, well that makes them... take a guess!

[@birdlover6842]

@@namastea Maybe they have a co morbid pd in addition to NPD.

[@ange7422]

@@namastea wow, way to dehumanize people who are suffering from a painful mental illness.

[@neilcampbell1763]

This much I appreciate and understand, but does it necessarily indemnify people with toxic behaviour from accountability? I believe they should be held to account, albeit with an appreciation of their mental condition.

[@Thenamelessnarcissist]

I wish I could post this on my personal social media, but I'm terrified of the reactions even when it's laid out so clearly like this. Maybe It'll see more acceptance in a couple years. Great work per usual

[@samwalker3660]

It's not that great anyway. I don't see any reason to be terrified

[@harmonyvaneaton4101]

It's super complicated. People who have experienced extremely bad things at the hands of someone they sympathized with and tried to understand and help for years or decades is a big ask. Two things can be true at once, we can have understanding and compassion, and we can also feel traumatized, frustrated, and angry at our own particular "person" and their enablers. It's a struggle on this end too. Truly, sometimes it feels like the brain will break to hold both thoughts at once. Keep up your work!

[@mac1291]

Seriously, can’t thank you enough for these videos. I have unfortunately seen very little compassion for narcissism at all. Even from therapists. I fit all the criteria for the thought patterns but have been fighting it since my teens and have managed to not inflict my pain on almost anyone by basically shutting myself down. To have put in the effort I have to protect others and then only hear about how people should protect themselves from us is so devastating when this disorder has been a major contributing factor in me being almost completely incapable of connecting properly with people. I am in constant pain but I turn it all inwards.

[@healnpd]

Thanks for your comment. I hope you are able to find some peace and healing.

[@Solace_System]

The thumbnail says it all... Viewing it through the lense of a it not just being a disorder but a social and emotional disability is mind unlocking!

[@omoriref]

*Me who suffers from BPD wondering why neurotypicals think in more black and white than I am even capable of when they express their opinions about NPD and other mental disorders* "Narcissist bad! Bad behavior always = villain!" I thought you guys were supposed to be the sane and rational ones? Lmao guess that's not completely accurate. Thank you for this video sharing it everywhere

[@User-uw7uw]

Exactly!!!

[@Ali08]

Your comment makes a lot of sense and likely explains why many of us struggle so much being truly authentic in this world. Although it is no one else's personal responsibility to help us face our own actions and thoughts, it is very telling the number of people who are also blinded by their own judgment. No one wins.

[@Redflowers9]

If anything the negative stigma surrounding narcissism makes narcissists less likely to attend therapy. Why would someone who's demonised or labelled as evil have any hope that they can better themselves through therapy?

[@kenwickcook8413]

Well whatever provided you the information, certification, degree, and authority for this rare title, keep up the good work and see to it that you can perhaps train, inform, teach, and assist others so that they too can approach the mental health field in the same manner. The world needs more people like you now more than ever

[@ItsSoarTime]

ok, i'm replacing the RESILIENCY video with this video as the first video on my Narcissists Encouragement playlist. ETERNALLY GRATEFUL for you providing a healthy, compassionate, ACCURATE understanding of these individuals!!!!!!

[@bah667]

Thank you for you Humility and your Empathy.

[@onefordespair]

I have NPD and BPD and the stigma crushes me.

[@healnpd]

:(

[@MarssBarss-k3e]

Same. The best thing you could possibly do is find a group of friends that support and understand you, and know to educate themselves rather than roll with pop psychology attitudes.

[@MsMirror]

So true! It totally is a social and emotional disability

[@stormycraig6133]

I agree with what he is saying. It is just all of the defenses do really hurt, and cause the kids and myself a lot of pain and heartache. I have a lot of empathy for him. We are being abused and neglected intentionally. It still feels like abuse and neglect even though not done on purpose.

[@darlenenorton793]

Stormy Craig ONLY YOU can change the cycle of abuse! By disengaging and going NO CONTACT! Getting help for you and your children! Your sympathy and empathy for him is just "enabling" him to continue in this cycle of abuse! I did this for 23 YEARS! The more "sympathetic I got, the worse he got!" I should have divorced him waaay sooner than I did! He has now sought counseling recently after ANOTHER failed marriage and at least 20 girlfriends during and after these marriage's! It was ALWAYS someone else's fault why he had a mess in his life. I heard he's FINALLY realized he might have something to do with all these failed relationships! NEGLECT IS ABUSE! IT IS being done on purpose! They don't KNOW how to "Love!" AND why should "they change" when everything they continue to do ALWAYS gets them what "they want!" Like a toddler having tantrums that wants their "ba ba!" Ewwww.... It's NOT my job to re-train badly raised men (or women)! Do you want a partner or a project? (Julia Roberts). If you have children you already have a project! All I know is my life got BETTER after I left him, AND stayed away from him AND his sick family! I live near the beach like I always wanted! I NEVER had a vacation or nice things living with him! But I have a vacation EVERYDAY now, AND have nice things! I live in PEACE now! He DESTROYED our family and many other people because of his abusive selfish ways! Hey, do what you want, but there IS a BETTER way to live in Peace and FREEDOM from ANYONE'S narcissistic behavioral ABUSE! One day at a time! I am praying for you that YOU get the help YOU and your children need BEFORE too much damage is done! Be Aware! Be Safe! Be Blessed! 💯🙏👆💖🔥💪🏝️🌈🌅🕊️

[@neilcampbell1763]

I'd like to add one personal observation, that is is done on purpose, but without conscionce or empathy.

[@JessCyph]

Very much appreciate this balanced, clinical perspective of pathological narcissism. I will be looking for more of your videos and for information about how to love a person with NPD-how to reach them when they seem unreachable.

[@healnpd]

Welcome!

[@happypeasanthomestead344]

Thank you for this video. Most videos concerning this topic say contradictory things. Most comment sections are filled with hate for some parent or ex..Rarely does anyone self reflect.

[@pocahontas4583]

I agree. People are throwing it around too much and acting like it’s just a general common personality trait that many people have and any one that cheats seems to be automatically labeled as a narcissist. What you described still does sound very much like the man I was married to but a lot of what I see on the internet confuses me and makes me wonder if it was something other than narcissism. I do believe he may be a full blown sociopath but I think the confusion comes from people labeling anybody that does them wrong or cheats as a narcissist. I have noticed that when Psychologists talk about it they say cheating may or may not be a sign. But the general public seems to think cheating and narcissism are synonymous.

[@ninath13]

Ask Sam Vakin

[@m_butterfly2]

It is true that antisocial personality (sociopathy) is something distinct from narcissism, although they do often go hand-in-hand. I don't understand antisocial personality very well, but I get the impression it is more about the attitude toward other people/social norms than about self-image dysfunction. Some narcissists are antisocial, but there are also narcissists who are totally obsessed with having other people experience them as "good", and who cannot cope when people experience them as "bad", because other people's reactions are their only way of knowing if they are good and worthy people. From what I know about antisocial personality, an antisocial person would be more likely to just not have any emotional investment at all in others, while a narcissist could be overly invested in how others experience them. I don't understand how this works in the case of NPD/ASPD overlap, except that such individuals often want to be experienced as "powerful/dominant".

[@dogtrainingmexico]

Excellent video, very informative and illuminating

[@healnpd]

Thanks for watching. 🙂

[@tjfSIM]

This is a much more sensible and rational take on narcissism than I’ve seen on many channels. The only thing that confuses me is whether pathological narcissism is the same thing as NPD, and if so, can it truly be referred to as a mental illness? I’ve always thought that personality disorders and mental illness are distinct from each other, although often seen together.

[@healnpd]

The definition of "mental illness" is a bit murky. In my opinion, many so-called discrete or circumscribed "Axis I" disorders are simply symptom constellations that result from underlying issues in the personality. Depression is a great example, as it is often the "visible" aspect of a more pervasive issue that involves how the self and others are viewed, how social situations are experienced, unconscious expectations and assumptions (schemas), attachment patterns, etc. Regarding the distinction between pathological narcissism and NPD, I would say that they overlap but are not the same thing. Someone can have pathological narcissistic traits but still be able to develop and maintain intimate relationships, regulate their self-esteem well enough to hold a job, etc. NPD is really the severe end of pathological narcissism, where preoccupations about self-esteem dominate the individual's life and cause widespread dysfunction. Here is an older video that I made with some colleagues explaining the spectrum of narcissism, from healthy self-esteem to personality disorder: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZnMpJ6fnq-Za7s

[@bruceyamamoto99]

@@healnpd This is a great explanation! I ve also heard that illness infers to be all-pervading (constant) . So like diabetes which is an illness, one can't turn it off and on. NPD however presents differently by the situation of who the person afflicted with NPD is with i.e. victims of the abuse (near and dear) , flying monkeys or total strangers. This is why NPD is described as a mental disorder and not an illness. What are your thoughts.

[@healnpd]

@@bruceyamamoto99 I think the issue is largely a semantic one, but my sense would be that someone who has NPD can't 'turn it off' depending on the situation. Individuals with NPD are typically impulsive and don't really have much control over their reactivity to different people and situations. There may be large differences in how they present when around different people and situations, but those differences are part of the illness.

[@felicitydowning7970]

Thank you for the information.

[@themasculinismmovement]

Thank you

[@isabellarodz6574]

Thank you for this !!!!

[@healnpd]

You're so welcome!

[@470ParkAvenue]

Thank you from a suffering narcissist.

[@Enjoytheshow435]

I’ve been thinking, why should I be treated? Can a person miss something they don’t have a reference to? I mean until 6 months ago I thought everybody have the same perspective of the world as I am! Isn’t happiness relative? If my idea of happiness is to labor to be perfect and if connecting with people does not make me happy should i just seek what makes me happy? Isn’t it this the golden advice for normal people, follow your happiness!? It seems like treatment is a way to convince me that what my hardwiring is telling me I need is not actually what I need, however, every shred of me needs that! What if what society and clinicians think that I need need is actually my worst nightmare (yes, I get nightmares that I have a family and I am married with children or that my family decided that they gonna live with me lol I wake up, terrified, trying to comfort myself by telling her that i’m here and that I am the queen of my a house, nobody can bother me with their opinions about myself and I’am the only person responsible for what I’m going to be today and what sense of self I’m going to create and what perfection I’m going to pursue because it actually changes with time) Maybe narcissist are just the perfect self-sufficient creatures who doesn’t need anybody to scratch their backs (literally in my case which is ironic because I have hypermobility syndrome. the perfect match syndrome for an independent person) I’m actually tempted to book a consultation only to see how the clinician would convince me that I need treatment and that I’m missing something or that my happiness is not real! Maybe everybody is affected by others’s energy to some level hence the expression energy vampires and we are just the extreme level of it. If that’s not true, what John Paul, starter meant by “hell is other people”? If I’m not happy why I sigh of relief every time I close my door behind a visitor and why i only feel alone with people, not in my solitude!? Maybe I’m just lucky that I have to experience multiple sense of selves, the doctor said we were Infanticide and we didn’t live yet however, I feel I’ve have lived multiple lives and experienced different perspective for each self I labored to build. Maybe dying alone is not so scary if you loved living alone that much? Maybe a fish doesn’t need to learn how to walk? True that people’s negativity affects us more and disturbed our sense of self, but we were handed the perfect antidote which is not missing or needing to connect with them in the first place What if I found the perfect solution for my nature by just limiting my human interaction to the minimum and socialize only with my selection of great minds from my home (books, and the Internet) Of course I understand that some NPD have jobs that require dealing with people a lot! I will be constantly sick if I had one of those jobs. What if there are perks of having NPN! To me, it’s my ability to uproot myself and moving to different countries without looking back because I easily to detach from people as they never existed in my life not because I’m cold (actually my communication style in my temperament come across as caring and warm hearted ) but because that sense of anonymity I always carry inside me that makes me feel that I belong to no one. Snowflake kinda feeling. How come I haven’t lived yet if I have experienced so many places!? is the definition of living is only connecting with people? Is this the ultimate goal? What about connecting with animals? What about just experiencing? What about seeking knowledge? Some legitimate questions here, I think

[@healnpd]

@Enjoytheshow435 - Only you know whether or not you are living the life you want. Personally, I think there is always room for growth. I don’t see therapy as a way to ‘fix someone’ (not your words but a bias in our society nonetheless). I see it as a process that promotes growth and development. If you are suffering - either from the presence of thoughts, feelings, and experiences that are painful, or from the absence of experiences that might bring joy, meaning, and intimacy to your life - then I would say treatment may be helpful. I think you mentioned in an earlier comment that you are in a more defended (grandiose) space rn. I wonder if the idea that you are a perfect self-sufficient being persists into times when there is less grandiosity? At any rate, I wish you well and thanks for watching. 🙂

[@Enjoytheshow435]

@@healnpd yes we all miss what we don’t have it doesn’t mean if we have it, we will be happier. we all think the grass is greener but when i get a glimpse of this lacking feeling, my protective mechanism is so strong that (what you guys call it grandiose and I call rationality I’m being realistic!) doesn’t take hard labor to come over this moment of weakness because I’m surrounded by people who are cheating on their partners or abused by their partners or envying my single life and freedom etc. even normal people do that! Compare themselves to others to be grateful of what they have! I wouldn’t call this state entirely fake, because it’s a primal fear that Ingrained inside me hence the nightmares of living with other people! It could be because I was deprived of my freedom for so long (middle eastern) so it became the highest of my priorities. When I was a child , they were a chocolate ad of a woman who comes home to her empty apartment from a long day in work to meet her cat then sit on the couch relax and watch TV! I remember recording this ad and lusting over this life. I literally created this life, sacrificed being disowned for it that’s why it’s very hard for me to imagine that there is more to life but I’m open minded to treatment of course. That’s what free people do, explore new things. By the way, I bought your book long time ago to realize thst it’s mostly not for narcissist it’s for society who stigmatizes narcissists! Hope one day you write a book for NPDs Thank you so much for for your work

[@yifatcarmi3380]

Thank you, I really appreciate your approach

[@singularity9764]

I'm a soon to be counseling psychologist and this description really reminds me of bipolar disorder. The mood swings that can last week's or even month cycling between depression and mania. It's is quite difficult giving your description to distinguish between the two. The only key deference is that the one is a mental disorder and the other a personality disorder. But it's really hurting my brain because many mental disorders are very similar in nature and can exist with other ones. Great video btw.

[@tads73]

Narcissism is a personally disorder. It doesn't have organic roots like bipolar.

[@esahm373]

All mental (or personality) disorders are human made descriptions of phenomena. So BPD is a construct that tries to describe a certain combination of traits and symptoms that occur together and typically manifest in a certain way the affected person thinks, behaves and feels. But it's just that: an attempt in describing that phenomenon. Ultimately, psychological diagnosis are not a real thing, but constructs and terms employed in an attempt to describe a real thing. These descriptions are never 100% perfect and completely discernible from one another. Overlap and in some case even stark similarity between those constructs / terms describing real life phenomena is inevitable. Nature doesn't follow human constructs, but human constructs attempt to describe nature. Nature is typically more complex and more variable than the human terms and constructs invented in an attempt to describe nature. This is mostly an issue of linguistics (semantics) and taxonomy (classification): the semantics and classifications we employ are not identical with the complexity and variability of nature. So when we as humans employ BPD and Narcissistic PD as two dichotomous categories of disorder, that doesn't mean that in nature only the strict definition of BPD or NPD will occur, but never a mix of symptoms fitting either of these constructs, since nature doesn't care about our human classification and terminology. Nature is just nature and will not adapt to our man made taxonomic attempts to describing it.

[@singularity9764]

@@esahm373 thats a really good and unique take on diagnosing a patient.

[@jessiew4103]

@@esahm373 Bipolar Disorder is not abbreviated as BPD. BPD is Borderline Personality Disorder. Just letting you know.

[@esahm373]

@@jessiew4103 Indeed, thanks!

[@anuradhatiwari4844]

Thank you..

[@healnpd]

You're welcome

[@esahm373]

What a great explanation! I think part of the confusion and ambiguity stems from the etymiology of the term: a vague term that originated in Greek mythology might not be well suited to contain a clinical concept. There is a reason why etymiologically similar constructs, such as the "Oedipus Complex", are now longer accepted in Psychology.

[@healnpd]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the term is problematic. It is easily misunderstood, especially given the popular understanding of the story of Narcissus. Perhaps a name like “Variable self-esteem disorder,” or something like that would be better.

[@esahm373]

@@healnpd Yes, that sounds much more descriptive. Thanks for your important work. Some reasonable, non-sensationalist education on this subject is really needed. Just today I thought about this: a lot of the information out there giving advice on "how to deal with narcissists" really amounts to stigmatization and ostracization of people with difficult / divergent, maybe above average neurotic, vulnerable tendencies. Basically telling people: if a person is too difficult or to irritable, socially isolate that person. How would that help people who already experience great difficulty trusting and connecting with others? And what happened to the concepts of toletance, acceptance and respect (= not judging, but trying to consider the perspective of the other)? Sure, there are people out there where it might be advisable keep some distance. But to me it seems we are way too quick to exclude people merely because they might not be as easy- and out going as our ideal expectation.

[@themanwhoknewtoomuch6667]

@@esahm373 Love it! Love it. Love it. I too felt that way.

[@themanwhoknewtoomuch6667]

A drowning person cannot save others. Unfortunately many of us 'empaths' are actually so much wounded and traumtized we cannot think in a rational way to extend help in an assertive manner. We have our own issues and trauma to deal with which further clouds our judgment and clarity of thought. This is why a neutral clinician may help them; except they don't want to be helped. And fully agree that social isolanism, making one pariah and locking them up with the keys thrown in dungeon helps no one but further aggravates the disorder. Not to mention how cruel and barbaric it is. Then again our prison system as well as mental health 'facilities' are still barbaric and primitive which civilzation will look back 100 years from now on... The reason why this situation is so tricky is because NPD people feeds on empathy and the need to help them.

[@esahm373]

@@themanwhoknewtoomuch6667 I actually don't agree with the whole "narcissists feed on empaths" narrative, that you typically find in articles / videos / podcasts about "narcissists" written by non-clinicians and non-experts. First off: empaths vs narcissists is a false dichotomy, which suggests that NPD affected people have no emotions and empathy. The opposite is the case: NPD is a condition of increased emotional vulnerability (fair enough: some aspects of outward empathy can be reduced compared to the average). Also, no human being is fully described by a term like "empath" or "narcissist", as if we only had one main personality characteristic. Almost everyone harbours some degree of empathy at least for some of his / her fellow human beings and almost everyone can exhibit some narcissistic traits here and there occasionally. So, a view that is based on the premise that a) I'm an empath and b) the evil narcissists try to feed on my good intentions, is to me completely childish. Confounding abusive relationships with the clinical issue of NPD is typically not helpful. If you are in an abusive relationship, then call it exactly that and don't try to pin clinical terms that have an entirely different meaning and context on the situation. Get out of that abusive relationship instead of being a hobby psychologist trying to pin clinical constructs on the abusive partner.

[@PeterShaw-ne1yq]

Very clear definition of this woeful mental disorder

[@marydwyn7187]

It is well described, but the problem is how the narcisists manage this fluctuation and disability is often by being very abusive to their surroundings especcialy close ones and what is even harder, in most cases, they are not being able to accept that they have any disroder, and that they are being abusive...thus not leaving any way out for the victims nor any way to get help for themselves. And those 2 characteristis make it so hard to accept or show any compasion, coz even that is abused most of the time. But once a person with NPD wants help and admits this issue, its aldready half way towards healing and even close ones can have hope.

[@healnpd]

I would qualify your comment to say that *some* narcissists are very abusive to their surroundings and that *some* narcissists have difficulty accepting that they need help. I have worked with many who habitually feel abused by others: unwelcome, disliked, mocked, even hated. They present as meek, easily shamed or embarrassed, and with a fragile self structure that readily fragments into suicidal depression. I know it may not seem like it, but what I just described is *also* a form of narcissistic presentation.

[@harmonyvaneaton4101]

This! Exactly.

[@harmonyvaneaton4101]

Question for you: do you ever meet with the people in your meek clients personal life to get their perspective on the history of your clients and how they present at home? Asking because I have experienced a total chameleon who presents as a sad, meek, victim everywhere except behind closed doors, where a grandiose, violent, rageful, terrifying, dishonest, manipulative, controlling person emerges.

[@healnpd]

@harmonyvaneaton4101 - I know there are questionable therapists out there utilizing questionable practices. It is understandable that you might wonder if the common dynamic of someone with NPD misrepresenting their situation in a way that minimizes their responsibility and portrays them as a victim of someone else’s abuse would have somehow skipped my attention. I am a specialist in NPD. I treat patients with pathological narcissism every day. I also consult with their loved ones and family members. I do intensive individual therapy and also group therapy with people who have these issues. I also research these issues, write about them, and teach these concepts to doctoral psychology students. I perform full-scale personality assessments in my practice that involve in-depth clinical interviews, a full psychosocial history, collateral interviews with loved ones, and a battery of empirically-based assessment instruments. I actually do know what I’m talking about and my exposure to people with these issues and their loved ones is significant. Thanks for watching! 🙂

[@Wolvenfire86]

Not 1%. 5%. And America has more per capita than other countries and it's a huge problem.

[@healnpd]

There is no consensus on this figure.

[@5antiblusable654]

What would you recommend to someone who knows they’re narcissistic and impaired in the ways you describe but cannot convince a therapist they’re disordered in that way? I know self diagnosis is bad but whenever I read the diagnostic criteria or any academic material on it I relate to it to a T, like I am reading a description of myself.

[@healnpd]

You should be able to have a frank discussion about this with your therapist. Any good clinician will be open and receptive to your thoughts and feelings, and use the discussion both as a way to better understand your concerns AND as a way to deepen the therapy relationship. If you sincerely don’t believe that such a conversation with your therapist is possible, then you should consider the possibility that it isn’t a good match.

[@onefordespair]

Self diagnosis isn't bad, per se - it just shouldn't be the final word on whether or not you have something. I actually figured out some of my problems on my own, presented them to professionals and had them confirm my suspicions.

[@demontrader1222]

Going by that scientific definition alone, one can argue that by its very functional basis, evolution elevates the pathological aspects of this function. Collectively (racism) and individually (the survival instinct). From my experience, I would argue that pathological functionalism exceeds the non-pathological and with the rise of capitalism is moving away from group pathology (racism, tribalism etc) towards a more individualised form. As a businessman I am exceedingly aware of the risks I face from this evolutionary state.

[@AlastorTheNPDemon]

Are you familiar with stories of dethroned hierarchs? Perhaps first-born sons who were undermined by their meddling younger brothers then forced to live with that existential shame? This seems to be what's going on in my case... adding that to a family that dominated me and made me feel like crap for asking for things. It was hardly a Japanese POW camp, but the Cold War was being silently waged at all times. I've always seen what is described as the vulnerable narcissist to be a sympathetic character. Learning about it from a neutral, scholarly point of view helped me become aware of my own construct and (for reasons I still can't quite grasp) even embrace the term as something to anchor my identity to. I haven't been professionally diagnosed - I am deciding against that for multiple good reasons - but the literature on narcissism is the only text that seems to understand the relationship I have between my audience-tailored persona and my pressure-cooked internal hellscape, and I intend to at least get a therapist so I can have someone who is willing to listen to all the wining of an angry, righteous child who was locked up inside me for ages for his own good.

[@ebrennie]

Can you please explain the difference between MDD and vulnerable NPD? Your definition sounds like major depression. What’s the clinical distinction in terms of diagnosis?

[@thehumblepundit9790]

What if you have a narcissist who IS out to hurt people verbally, emotionally and sometimes even physically? People that when that grandiosity is questioned or threatened, get violent, angry, and malicious. What do you call that?

[@healnpd]

@thehumblepundit9790 - Could be malignant narcissism. I have a video about that on my channel. This particular video is intentionally short and seeks to provide proper definitions for pathological narcissism. If you are interested in a deeper dive into the psychology of narcissism then you will likely find my longer videos helpful.

[@rmr1300]

Also attachment issues, its closer to "crawl out your skin existential terror" than "abandonment anxiety". Boundaries as well, feeling diffused and sprawled out into the world, not feeling grounded. No solid sense of where I end and others begin.

[@projectbirdfeederman5491]

3:00 The gaslighted and smeared victims of covert abuse would also become depressed. reclusive, hypersensitivity and harbour resentment towards society as well. I guess the victims of covert abuse are usually written off as narcissists. That's convenient for the abusers. Hmm wonder if it is by design. Hmm also how is a narcissist able to exist in social withdrawal if they always need their so-called "supply?" It doesn't add up.

[@healnpd]

When pwNPD withdraw into social isolation they are basing their self image on internalized representations of others. The ‘others’ in this scenario are charged with negative affect, which activates either a depressive or angry self image in the pwNPD. They are still basing their experience of self on someone else, just not a literal ‘someone else.’

[@isobelangeli2053]

So why do they harm others?

[@healnpd]

Many individuals with narcissistic issues, especially those with high narcissistic vulnerability, don’t harm others - at least not intentionally. Those who do intentionally harm others in some way often do so because they have high sensitivity to feeling slighted, humiliated, or rejected based on deficits in self-image, social perception, and self-esteem.

[@isobelangeli2053]

@@healnpd is there also a factor that they also have brief psychosis or poor reality testing also ?

[@healnpd]

Not necessarily.

[@ashl8804]

Ridiculous….explaining away sadistic and vindictive behaviour in this way! Nothing will explain their abject cruelty, when intentional. They know what they are doing. They choose to wilfully harm others even those who do them good. It’s something impossible to comprehend.

[@healnpd]

@@ashl8804 I think there is an important difference between "explaining away" and merely explaining. Providing reasons for a behavior that are backed by peer-reviewed clinical research is not the same as "explaining away" - a phrase that seems to suggest dismissing or excusing a problematic set of behaviors. My work is not about excusing or dismissing problems. To the contrary, it's about facing them head on and helping those who suffer from NPD (both the patients and their loved ones) heal.

[@birdlover6842]

I think some people may exhibit bad behaviours because of another co morbid mental condition. NPD does get a very bad rap. Thanks for clarifying this.

[@healnpd]

Thanks for watching.

[@MsMirror]

I wish you were more well known and could correct more people on the nature of npd.

[@healnpd]

Thanks for your support. I feel this is an important topic.

[@pdquestions7673]

I have NPD and it's sad that people don't see it as an impairment arising from deficits. Unfortunately, in our archetypal natural law, there is a mass instinct to villainize and ostracize certain impaired people, knowing they're impaired. For example in judeo-christian history, the "sinner" is often well-understood to be weak and afflicted (openly regarded as "blind" or "sick"), and yet there's an instinct to marginalize / ostracize / banish sinners (knowing that the condition is an impairment). Maybe it's a quiet eugenic motif, where there's a mass instinct to barely tolerate those who are impaired, and to banish them when they can't somehow tow the line. Villainizing them is a useful rationalization to make it easier to marginalize / banish. Thus, psychology should do a better job of really emphasizing the impairment in NPD, knowing there's already a mass tendency to eventually banish impaired people who can't adapt to basic social norms.

[@staciacrick3373]

Unlike many other cultures, in the United States narcissism has been rewarded.

[@pdquestions7673]

@@staciacrick3373 that is also true, but - importantly - it doesnt tend to be recognized as a déficit.

[@staciacrick3373]

@@pdquestions7673It is a personal deficit that negatively impacts and damages others in serious and significant ways. We now have a malignant narcissist wanting to be the dictator of the Republican Party and country. So, it’s ultimately contingent on the narcissist to get the help needed to at least change their behavior that is emotionally, financially and physically destroying the lives of others.

[@evelynpsychotic8108]

Hey, I have NPD and while I agree for the most part, and 100% agree that it’s a social and emotional disability, I don’t feel like framing it as a deficit is really accurate, I don’t think it’d be fair with any disability really. That’s not to say NPD is “too much” of something, it isn’t. The way I look at it is more so that it’s simply a different type of personality, one that is disordered. What I mean by that is that rather than lacking something or having something more in relation to non-narcissists, I’m simply something different that works differently, like how an autistic person works differently from a non-autistic person, with neither necessarily being more or less than the other, or having more or less of something. Apples and pears are different, but neither is a deficit version of the other. They just work in ways that aren’t the same. With the right accommodation and support, both autistic and non autistic people can thrive though, it’s just a case of society rarely gives that accommodation and support to autistic people, and isn’t designed to do so. The same goes with NPD people, sure, therapy and stuff can help us cope and give us tools to manage things, in the same way that giving glasses to a near sighted person can help them see things that are far away, but, at least where I am, therapy is basically completely inaccessible to me, and, even if it were accessible to me, I still feel like society is organised in a way that makes things less accessible to me, and that needs to be accommodated, changed and adjusted. The same should apply with all disabilities, really, whether it’s ramps for wheel chair users or adjustments to social expectations and norms and understandings for NPD, along with adjustments to the way things operate to give room to the difficult emotional experiences I go through, such that I can manage them easier. Again, this isn’t just something specific to NPD, I think society should be built around accommodating and supporting all people of all disabilities and stuff, whether they have a personality disorder, autism, bipolar, schizophrenia, are in a wheel chair, have fibromyalgia, or EDS, or they’re blind or deaf or any other variety of things. And the first step to accommodating someone is realising that it isn’t a case of they have a deficit that needs to be corrected, but rather that they are simply different and have different needs that require support and accommodation in different ways. If two flowers require different soil to grow, you don’t try to change the flowers to be compatible with the same soil, you change the soil to work with the flower. And again, that accommodation can include therapy, and for many probably should assuming the therapists are actually good and not stigmatising towards their patients, but, therapy isn’t a fix all solution that’ll take away all the stigma, or suddenly radically change my personality to be something that is accommodated by society. Some things won’t change, and that’s okay, but it does mean I need accommodation for it. So, disabled people of any kind aren’t a deficit version of abled people, we’re just different and need support in different ways, so we can all thrive in our own way. And that includes NPD

[@healnpd]

I appreciate your perspective, but it is not the way that personality disorders are currently viewed in the fields of clinical psychology or psychiatry. Pathological narcissism in particular is often accompanied by clear signs of mental illness that include deficits in coping and self-esteem regulation, mood disturbance, and interpersonal deficits/dysfunction. We should have a compassionate and informed perspective when it comes to any mental illness, but we should not treat it as a simple matter of neurodivergence that requires public accommodations. I am not using the word disability in the legal sense in this video, but to reframe pathological narcissism in terms of the often severe deficits in emotional and social functioning that it involves rather than the stereotyped constructs of a strutting peacock or conniving manipulator.

[@evelynpsychotic8108]

​@@healnpd Thank you for the reply! I am going to split this into a two parts because of youtubes hidden character limit, but bare with me! This is part one of course, and the other comment is part two I do get what you are saying, and I agree that we're not the peacock or the manipulator. but while it is true that these things are a big part of NPD, and while they do cause a lot of distress, especially self-esteem dysregulation (at least in my case thats the worst thing I go through), I feel understanding these as just deficits still results in a reductive look at things, and public social accommodation could help a lot in allowing me to have the space and resources necessary to better cope with these aspects of my disorder, and as I said previously, I view therapy and support like that as a form of accommodation, as it would be giving someone the tools necessary to help regulate self esteem, for example. But they're not the only form I view as important or necessary. They're just one facet of things. Giving me the tools to manage things like self esteem would be like giving me a wheel chair. It'd help, but its only any good if society is made with ramps. Like, how am I supposed to use the tools necessary to regulate my self esteem when society is built in such a way that its constantly knocking it back down, wearing me down bit by bit until I end up suicidal again, all in the name of efficiency? No one stops, there's rarely a break to recuperate or to try to work through these feelings, you rarely get the space needed, and its become pretty normalized to publicly shame people in one way or another, whether its on the internet, workplace bullying, the constant drive for everything to be criticised and repeatedly improved even when someone isn't emotionally ready for it yet, whether its in the work place or school or anywhere. The media is constantly telling me I'm too fat, or too thin, or too ugly, or that I need this or that product, etc, or that I am wrong or bad for being things I can't change about myself and wouldn't want to change anyway. And then, when I have a mental illness that makes it hard to regulate my self esteem, they call me a monster, an abuser, a scheming tyrant that wants to hurt everyone, they compare me to people like Hitler because in their eyes thats what cluster B people are reminiscent of, and tell me I shouldn't be around people, and try to find ways to hurt and manipulate me in response to transgressions I never even committed against them. That makes things hard in and of itself, and these things already aren't easy. And, everything is made into a huge competition, whether its finding a job, working in one, or anything else. And when everything's a competition, and you're struggling with something, its easy to keep on losing, and that makes it so much harder to manage things like self-esteem. Especially when losing means consequences, like not being able to afford things you need, let alone being able to afford things for those you care about or need to provide things for, or when losing means getting chewed out by your boss for things out of your control, or getting seen as a failure in the eyes of society and other people, or being told you just weren't good enough constantly. And, even in many families and friend groups, people rarely give each other space to breathe, they are constantly doing things that could hurt one another if the person they are doing it too has something like a dysregulated self esteem, even if these things are meant to be jokes or constructive or the like. And its made worse by the fact that if you try to set the boundary of "hey don't do that, that hurts", or even just "warn me and give me time and space to prepare before you do that", you get mocked in a lot of circumstances, viewed as "fragile" or a "snowflake", and people judge you. It is at a point now where I only regularly interact with 3 people willingly or on any social level and avoid most people in general, because, if I am feeling good about myself, most people will find a way to knock that down, and if I am feeling bad about myself, most people will find a way to make that worse. Whether its with criticisms or comments or advice I didn't ask for and wasn't given the ability to prepare for, or with something else, like outright shaming, or social expectations I cannot meet, etc. I feel like part of accommodating me would be giving me time and space to process and handle things that can be damaging to my self esteem, and removing those things that make me feel as though my already fragile self esteem is constantly under non-stop attack and like im on display for everyone to mock and belittle. Just being able to actually have the space to work through even just mood disturbances or my poor sense of self or any of it would go a long way, but nothing ever stops or slows down for anyone, let alone someone considered to be some kind of abusive monster because they have a personality disorder that society decided to hate. Its rare people do things to show you you're good enough in their eyes, its rare people do things to make you feel accepted and welcomed, its rare you see something on TV or in media that says you *are* good enough, its all mocking, belittling or shaming people its decided aren't, whether thats disabled people, BIPOC, queer people, or even just people who are overweight or bad at sports or whatever. It is always trying to make it clear that you're lesser than someone, and that you aren't as good as you should be. So, yeah, I feel like if society changed and became a somewhat kinder place, that gave more time and space to people like me to actually manage emotions, to actually work on self esteem issues, etc, these thing wouldn't be so difficult to live with. They'd still be hard, but, they'd be more manageable, and coping wouldn't be so difficult either. That is a large chunk of the accommodation that I want, and I think that'd benefit a lot of people, honestly.

[@evelynpsychotic8108]

Back on the point regarding deficits though, I don't see these things as pure deficits, because, much of it is just how I am. Its how I work. A deficit is an absence of something, a deficiency, but, with mood disturbances, that isn't an absence. That is a presence of distress. With self esteem dysregulation, while there may be an absence in my ability to regulate my self esteem, there is also a presence of a poor self image, and of a self image I struggle to maintain when its good (and, that does happen. In the small NPD communities I am in, we call them "highs", as they can feel really good sometimes, even if its fragile), etc, as well as a presence of thing that are constantly attacking my self esteem and making that already present difficulty in regulating it so much worse, and so much harder. And, even then, self esteem dysregulation can only really be interpreted as an absence in relation to someone else with a more regulated self esteem. A deficit is always in relation to something. And who is to say who is the baseline for a properly regulated self esteem? At what point is it a deficit in me rather than a problem with the society that is built to knock people like me down, again and again? We don't exist in a vacuum, we're always in the world. And, society is built such that people with a certain degree of self esteem regulation can cope and thrive, while others with a lower degree cannot, but if everyone had my level of self esteem regulation, it would be built around people like me instead, my experience would be considered the norm, and there wouldn't be as many issues for people with self esteems like mine as a result. We'd have collectively designed things to accommodate, support and accept these things. Our distress wouldn't be triggered as often, as things would be put in place to ensure that, and when these things would be triggered, we'd get the tools and resources necessary to deal with it. Its less so just the way I am that causes me distress as much as it is the way I am in a world that wasn't made for people who are like the way I am, and if society was built around disabled people instead, our distressing experiences wouldn't be seen as much different from everyone else's distressing experiences, and would receive the support and accommodation necessary to deal with them. And, that in part does mean helping us to better regulate self esteem internally at times, but it also means removing those unnecessary things that weigh down on our self esteem non-stop and constantly chip away at it. It means building a world where even those with the most fragile self esteems can be treated in a way that allows them thrive and mostly feel good regardless, and when they can't thrive, either helping them to do so via finding a way to support them, or if that is impossible, helping them to better regulate their self esteem so they can. So, even with the distressing experiences that are part of NPD in current society, whether its certain cognitive patterns I have, my self esteem dysregulation, my mood disturbances, etc, I still don't feel like these distressing aspects are entirely internal, they are partly, and that separates me as someone with NPD from someone without it, but they aren't just "deficits" about me, because they're only as big of an issue as they are because society isn't made to be compatible with people who experience these things, and as such, I feel they do need accommodating, just like everyone else's disabilities need accommodating. Now, I know that this isn't the accepted view in modern psychology or psychiatry, but, disability advocacy is only in its infancy, especially for things like mental illnesses. The medical model of disability, which is currently the most popular in these fields, is very flawed in my view, both on a practical, philosophical and scientific level, and many, many disabled people agree, but why would it have been replaced when the input from communities of mentally ill people has been lacking, in large due to the struggles surrounding making such communities, which, now with the internet, have only just recently been lessened? Things impact us, every day, and a lot of those things are baked into the structure of current society. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, psychology and psychiatry haven't really been able to raise any significant questions about those societal issues and how they impact us yet, let alone critique those issues, they just assume them as natural by default. But society should be made to serve those that live within it, and right now, for the most part, it isn't. It leaves many behind, and leaves many in horrible situations. And until these fields view us in regard to the greater societal context we exist within, and begin to understand how that societal context may not be good for us and thus needs to change, I don't think either field will be able to get a full grasp on mental illness, as it will just view things solely in regards to what it considers as a deficit in me, and wont see the flaws in how society treats me that either make something an issue for me in the first place or if it was already an issue and always would be by nature, refuses me adequate support, and does all it can to make the issue ten times worse. Now, I am just some girl who reads philosophy and sociology and psychology stuff a lot. I am not a bonafide expert on anything, but, hopefully my perspective and this rather long winded comment was interesting, and not a waste of time, at the very least? Regardless, thank you for reading, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day!

[@MaryJane4and20th]

@@evelynpsychotic8108 you're the best! love what you wrote!!, the neurodivergence movement is going strong

[@TheVerbalAssassinFAFO]

It is a DEFICIT. Full stop. It's not a normal way to be. NPD people cause a lot of pain to those who love them. Your disability doesn't give you the right to hurt others and no one should "accomodate" your abuse.

[@aunabreslingaming3279]

And like this split between reality and your ideal self or something like that for lack of a better word psychotic and they're they're disordered

[@MaryJane4and20th]

how is this differentiated from bipolar & social anxiety disorders?

[@healnpd]

I have a video on my channel about social anxiety and NPD. NPD is often confused with bipolar disorder due to the fluctuations between grandiosity and vulnerability. It usually takes time to parse out whether a bipolar presentation is legitimate bipolar disorder, or due to underlying instabilities in self image. Sometimes, it's both.

[@ninath13]

But they will

[@Missrock1]

Thans you for your information. 0:32 i just ended a difficult relationship with someone who is clearly on the npd spectrum. i am convinced that he has no bad intentions. and i do not see myself. as a victim. I tried to find a form in which we could continue to see each other, but his cold manners did me no good. he is not aware that he has npd. he is already over 60. do you think it is possible in some way to have a relationship with npd?

[@healnpd]

Thanks for watching. Every situation is different. I recommend meeting with a licensed therapist to discuss the relationship and develop your own sense of what’s possible. However you decide to proceed, boundaries and clear communication are essential.

[@carolisherwood493]

Well, I wish you could explain what I recently witnessed……..

[@healnpd]

If what you witnessed has to do with pathological narcissism, then I probably could explain it. People often conflate narcissism with other kinds of psychopathology and problematic interpersonal behavior. Pathological narcissism is it’s own discrete category in the field of psychology with its own proper meaning (although it has come to mean many things to the public due to the recent explosion of stigmatizing and explicitly vilifying representations online).

[@constancemiller4279]

What the NPD person has done to me these past six yrs is unimaginable. Trying e plain the behaviors and abuse bestowed in my life after temp o g myself from that person sounds insane to role when you speak about it . SMH

[@janethomas78]

why do people abuse narcissists further??-- who are the people who gang up on them? also Why do therapist refuse do call anyone a narcissist? Is it because it is so misunderstood?

[@healnpd]

It's the stigmatized diagnosis du jour. It's easy to demonize, easy to "other," and easy to triumphantly define one's own virtue in contrast to the 'depraved,' 'broken,' and 'evil' narcissist.

[@traxikscifi8105]

I understand, i am an empath, i feel for them... but they are fatalists, selfdistructive, how to get them out of importante offices? Like Trump or Putin... people die because of them... One of my sisters confessed once 'If i knew out to get thing before...without using other people ...' They are fully aware of their actions and in secret they know its wrong... that is why they collapse or flatuate between emotions...

[@GLsJAwtomatica]

With all due respect Dr videos like this could potentially lull people into a false sense of security, narcissists are dangerous.

[@Minneolaos]

They use your empathy against you to destroy you. It does not make sense to try to understand them empathically. If you help them they won't return any favor.

[@RandyDecious]

What about malignant narcissists u have not met the one s know ragers an arm radius distance from them

[@healnpd]

I did a video on malignant narcissism. 👍🏻

[@Rena-tq7qb]

Conclusion: aren't we all more or less narcissists?

[@healnpd]

@Rena-tq7qb - Of course. 🙂

[@Chris-vc8uw]

In my, albeit, limited experience, patients with NPD do not respect & will not meaningfully engage in therapy unless it relentlessly-- but graciously-- communicates & responds to them as if they are entirely responsible for their behavior. Thus, pandering to the idea that they are misunderstood is not likely to be helpful. They feel misunderstood. They feel maligned. Feelings are feelings. They are in treatment (or are in need of treatment) because they (& their enablers) OVER-VALUE their feelings & under-value the feelings & needs of everyone else, as well as under-valuing their actual capacity to respond to all feelings & all situations in an authentic, pro-social, non-abusive manner. So-- YES-- many people & professionals misuse the term 'narcissist,' but-- NO-- people with NPD are likely not being harmed by this nor are they lacking 'understanding' or access to individuals who give them a million chances & more consideration & attention than they-- or any adult-- needs or deserves. In my (again, limited) clinical experience, it's much more effective to acknowledge they've been dealt a shit hand; agree it must suck to feel stuck in situations where everyone keeps fucking everything up (&/ or being cruel/abusive &/or not being fair/understanding); pay loads of attention to & encourage any actual authenticity & processing any trauma(s) that are offered; &-- at all other times-- gently call out their bullshit & obsessively focus on helping them challenge themselves to actually do things differently, first & foremost by being more factual & direct during sessions 😜. Fwiw, I also don't think it's helpful to muddy the waters re: calling NPD 'mental illness.' Personality Disorders are not mental illnesses. Illnesses are episodic. So, a person can be "ill" from an episode of depression, or psychosis, or mania (to name a few) b/c there is baseline functioning that is markedly different from the "ill" state. However, much like a person is not "ill" with Autistic Spectrum Disorder or ADHD, a person is not "ill" with a Personality Disorder. The distinction is important because when the issue is NOT an illness, then using accurate terminology lead to more accurate expectations for future functioning. With Personality Disorders (& other mental disorders which are not illnesses), coping can be better or worse depending on the individual & situation (including history of & access to treatment), but the inherent difficulties are usually pretty static across adulthood. Whether those difficulties also qualify as a disability would vary, too, & is really more of a legal question. That said, I think most individuals with disability-level impairments in functioning due to NPD would-- by definition-- be exceedingly unlikely to ever accept or even recognize said disability, let alone the appropriate restrictions on their freedom which would necessarily follow being considered 'disabled' due to NPD. In other words, show me the person with severe NPD who accepts that they have a social & emotional disability which makes them unfit for many jobs & positions of responsibility in society, unable to consent to or succeed in marriage, unfit to parent (or potentially even own pets) without additional accomodations & supports, etc. If you can show me that person, you're either showing me a collapsed narcissist who will change their mind about it all in a few weeks or you're showing me a person who has been misdiagnosed. MTC.

[@intodewood0598]

Check out the Nameless Narcissist. He seems forthcoming about his flaws. Spiritnarc and Cluster b milkshake too.

[@healnpd]

Thanks for watching and for your comment. A few points: First, calling a personality disorder a mental illness is not “muddying the water.” Personality disorders are inarguably a form of mental illness. They are listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of *Mental Disorders* .They involve significant departures from what is typically considered normative adult thinking, perceiving, and behaving. But even if there were a valid distinction between personality disorders and mental illnesses, there is still the fact that personality disorders are accompanied by numerous sequelae that *would* qualify under your definition (e.g. depression, anxiety, substance abuse, eating disorders, transient psychosis, periods of suicidality, etc.). Moreover, I don’t really see the point in declaring that personality disordered individuals aren’t mentally ill but are instead… something else…unless it is to create arbitrary semantic distinctions between classes or groups of individuals with mental disorders for the purpose of legitimizing the struggles of one group while delegitimizing the struggles of another group. Your argument concerning the term ‘disability’ is also semantic. I am not using that term in its legal sense. I mean that individuals affected by pathological narcissism and/or NPD are literally *less able* than others when it comes to certain psychological and social capacities. They have deficits in: coping, interpersonal communication, self-awareness and insight, the ability to take the perspectives of others, the ability to mentalize, the ability to tolerate distressed states, etc. Surely you would agree? You also describe my video as “pandering,” despite the fact that it is firmly rooted in the empirical literature concerning pathological narcissism. The clinical descriptions I used are lifted directly from peer-reviewed literature that is cited in the video description. It is a fact that the term is misused and that this misuse increases unhelpful stigma. Widespread stigmatization of NPD actually *does* cause tangible suffering among populations who identify as having the disorder. Visit some online forums for people who identify as narcissists and read their first-hand accounts. I believe we should strive for accuracy and compassion in our cultural understanding of this disorder. This is an at-risk population. NPD is positively correlated with suicide. I have treated many narcissistic individuals who experience incredible shame and self-loathing that is significantly exacerbated by identifying as a member of such an openly derided group. NPD is VERY misunderstood. Pointing that out in order to correct widespread misconceptions is in no way pandering. The use of that term makes me wonder to whom exactly you think I’m pandering. If I’m pandering to a population of narcissists who are adversely affected by social misconceptions, stigma, and derision, then that undoes your point that there is no such population and no such harm. If, on the other hand, you are correct and there’s no population of “self-aware” narcissists, then I couldn’t possibly be pandering. I hope you will watch some of the other content on my channel, and read some of the literature cited in the video descriptions.

[@Chris-vc8uw]

@@intodewood0598 I certainly don't want or intend to discourage anyone. I enjoy & appreciate Cluster B Milkshake's content. I'm not familiar with the other 2. Keep in mind that from a distance it's impossible to know how any particular person's KZbin content fits into the broader picture of their overall functioning. For example, being "honest" about flaws & failings with an online audience of strangers who give attention in return could, for one person with NPD, be a life-changing experiment in authentic vulnerability. However, for another person with NPD it may just be the easiest & most dependable way they currently gain 'supply.' For 'self-aware narcissists' who monetize their channel(s) &/or offer advice for pay, it's almost certainly mostly the latter. That's fine. We're not their therapists, & (assuming we're not personally giving them money) we're not likely to be harmed because we're not depending on them for anything. The point is, as rando consumers of their content, we don't & can't know what their self-awareness & confessions really are. Given how much time it takes to make KZbin content, I suspect that the channels of many 'self-aware narcissists' essentially function as a sort of "harm reduction" approach to feeding their underlying compulsion to feel special, superior, in control, etc. If they're otherwise doing OK (meaning, not behaving abusively or irresponsibly) in their lives, or if their channels help them avoid doing much worse, then kudos. More broadly, tho, it's a misconception that people with NPD won't admit flaws. Most will, especially if their ideal self is the kind of person who admits flaws, admitting flaws has 'worked' in the past &-- in the present moment-- doing so again would cost them nothing, get them something they want, let them avoid something they do not want, &/or endear them to someone they would like to influence. In my personal & professional experience, if they've been to therapy for whatever reason they will recite things they've heard said about themselves & their issues when & if doing so will benefit them in some way. Especially with more vulnerable & covert presentations of NPD, the in-session 'performance' of insight, agreeableness, empathy, & contrition in the absence of corresponding out-of-session behavior is often a major cue for a provider to start realizing the person's actual issue is NPD. There are a lot of parallels to (&, due to co-morbidity, genuine over-lap with) the world of Substance Use Disorder & its treatment. Thus, just like in that world, admitting the problem is certainly necessary but doesn't mean much when lasting behavior-change does not follow. It means even less when accompanied by pleas for pity & demands to cease accountability & instead hyperfocus on victimhood. Thus, my original point was that it seems anti-helpful to encourage a mentality which reinforces the underlying disorder. If a person with NPD is disabled by their NPD, then they must either seek, accept, & stick with whatever treatment & accomodations are necessary or they must accept commensurate limitations on their freedom. I've never personally or professionally encountered someone with diagnosed NPD who would do either for any meaningful length of time. I agree it's technically possible, though.

[@intodewood0598]

@@Chris-vc8uw I agree with you, on that long term treatment is needed and that admitting the problem isn't helpful alone. Yet at the same time, I understand its nigh impossible, because insinuation that they need help implies they are fundamentally flawed individuals. Like a void wearing human skin.

[@samwalker3660]

Damn! Maybe you'd change your mind after marrying, living with a narcissist, and then going through a divorce. It's very different to treat an NPD patient for an hour every other week, than actually LIVING with them every day for years.... The "stigma" has a reason to be in place, especially when the partner of the NPD barely escapes feeling like they lost their very soul in the process

[@healnpd]

Sounds like you’ve had a difficult time. No one here is claiming that individuals with personality disorders like NPD are easy to live with or to be in a relationship with. As you no doubt know, the interpersonal and emotional impairments, disabilities, and dysfunctions can be quite severe. I’m not sure what exactly you’re taking issue with in the video. The definitions provided are pulled directly from the research literature on pathological narcissism. Do you not agree that we should strive to be accurate, fair, and compassionate when discussing mental illness? Would you prefer that we demonize a group of people suffering from a diagnosable mental illness instead of trying to understand their afflictions so that we can better treat them? I wish you well on your journey of healing, and hope that you will learn more about the disorder that cost you so much. It is much more than bad or abusive behavior. Individuals with NPD are at risk for suicide and self harm. Pathological narcissism is associated with depression, anxiety, and trauma. The face of NPD you have met is not the only one. There are many individuals out there with this disorder who are suffering greatly. Do you not think they should be treated humanely?

[@queenneurotica4591]

I appreciate your perspective and I’m on board with it, but I disagree that narcissistic traits (I don’t mean NPD either) are rare in the general population. These people are everywhere!

[@damanodrama]

For this video to have the transcendence it may be intended, it would need to take the pain they cause on others into account. It is not mentioned Although there are many videos out there that focuses only on the victims pain. And unfortunately, narcissists will continue to be witch hunted by those who suffered by their actions. It’s payback And it is just started to my estimation 🤔

[@loversandlosers]

yeah it seems people keep confounding narcissism with antisocial personality disorder. APD is characterized by amoral and opportunistic behavior.

[@esahm373]

"narcissist" is mostly being used as an insult and deragatory term with negative connotations, often to describe estranged ex-partners after a relationship has ended in tears for whatever reason. It's so "cringe" to see so many self-proclaimed narcissism experts, who have no proper clinical understanding of the phenomenon. They make up 95% of the people talking about narcissism online unfortunately (my personal estimate). This creates enormous stigma for people affected by the debilitating social and mental disorder (let's not forget the co-occuring depression and a significantly increased suicide risk among those with pathological narcissism).

[@ange7422]

So @povertyofthemind, why throw another personality disorder under the bus? Could it not be that they too are misunderstood and don’t have access to compassionate treatment either?

[@maxhammer4067]

Narcissists don't need any sympathy

[@healnpd]

The video isn’t calling for sympathy. It’s calling for accuracy and compassion.

[@omoriref]

Narcissist bashers are so ironic omg

[@maxhammer4067]

@@omoriref Yea John whayne gayce needed more sympathy and understanding

[@loganrodriguez9878]

@@maxhammer4067 John Wayne Gacy was a psychopath, not a narcissist. Even if he was, it's illogical to stereotype an entire mental disorder based on a child serial killer. Also the video wasn't about sympathy towards narcissists, it's about misconceptions about narcissism and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

[@healnpd]

@@maxhammer4067 John Wayne Gacy had a few things going on besides narcissism.

[@paulreid8201]

If only 1% of people are narcissists then how is it that 4% are sociopaths? You relie on the DSM which is updated to accommodate the biases of psychologists rather than the reality of mental states. When we talk about growing narcissism we're talking about a real social disorder that you seem to be dismissing out of hand. Sigmund Freud gave us the concepts of primary and secondary narcissism. Primary narcissism comes down to the Id and Ego where the person is motivated to actions that preserve life. Infants learn to demand food, warmth and protection. That is the survival instinct and it's perfectly healthy unless it becomes an obsessive neurosis. Secondary narcissism is the result of the maturing Super-ego, the face that we show the world. It's the protective front that we put up in order to get along with others. Without the Super-ego societies could not exist because individuals would never cooperate. Instead they would pursue selfish goals to the detriment of others. Secondary narcissism is pride in accomplishment, obeying societal rules so as to benefit oneself in the long run, and knowing one's place in relation to others. Primary narcissism is all about satisfying infantile desires while secondary narcissism is about love of the self for what we are. Adults described as narcissists have not made the transition to healthy secondary narcissism. Rather they confuse the need for self-preservation with the greater societal demand for cooperation and self denial. A healthy person sees self-denial as a positive, narcissists see it as negative. Narcissist super-egos are not well developed and so the libidinal wants, needs, and behaviours of the child that should have been left behind are on full display, with only a veneer of mature over-ride. When a child is frightened they use the only tools they have to make it go away. But, it's the successful results that teach children not to panic and instead take the steps they have learned so as to alleviate the distress. A child needs to have comfort time in order to process and learn. If however there is never a break in the distress, if one bad situation follows another and stress becomes the norm, then there is no way that a person can progress to an adult level where the person has learned to deal with stress in anything other than a child-like manner. Having said all that I have to come to why we see such a mass of child-like narcissists. The answer is the media. Marshal McLuhan told us the media is the message. Look at the media we have today. The message is to be self-centered. The message is to indulge oneself. But above all the message is one of fear which never allows for the adoption of a mature regard for oneself or even an acknowledgement of the needs of others.

[@photina78]

Traditionally, it was mostly mother's, grandmothers, aunties, who modelled & taught: self-sacrifice, empathy, self control, courtesy, morals, caretaking, respect, humility, consideration, good manners, & unconditional love to children while devoting most of their time & energy to their families & community relationships. Now women are too busy & stressed out to be there as much, plus our morals & values have been corrupted - yes, by the media. I've witnessed it since I was a child in the 1960's & a teen in the 1970's. I believe women have lost much more than we've gained, & children have suffered the most.

[@namastea]

Have you been in a close or intimate relationship with a narcissist before Dr ? Because it sounds like you really haven't. You contracdic almost every channel on YT focused on narcissisim, but you hold the truth. Yikes.

[@healnpd]

I invite you to watch the other videos on my channel and listen to my podcast episodes. You are welcome to disagree with my thoughts on this or any topic, of course. But don’t base that opinion on a four-minute video. Also, you should know that this particular video is pulling clinical definitions directly from the contemporary research literature on pathological narcissism. I hope you’ll stick around and deepen your understanding of this topic. 🙂

[@kanani717]

I recommend watching Ross Rosenberg if you haven’t already. He has way better videos about NPD that don’t involve trying obfuscate the evil which governs the narcissistic mind.

[@namastea]

@@kanani717 Indeed. I completely agree and yes I have watched Rosenberg's videos before, he has a much better and accurate grasp of NPD, thanks