The Last Jedi - How To Break A Fanbase | Anatomy Of A Failure

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi generated quite a bit of controversy and differing opinions upon release, whether we're talking about Rey's parents or Luke Skywalker's death. I decided to study this matter further and find out where all the negativity is coming from, and how it might affect the upcoming finale to the trilogy, Star Wars: Episode IX directed by JJ Abrams.
This theory-examination-thingy turned out to way longer than I expected, but I hope you like it. And it did finish nicely for the Bluray release, since deleted scenes and bonus features seem to be all the rave now. And there's a documentary too I hear.
Opinions? What did you think about Episode VIII and are you awaiting to see what happens in Episode 9? There was cool stuff. Like the throne room scene and the salt planet attack. Visually very impressive. Also Avengers Infinity War is coming out and that looks pretty good as well.
Music:
freemusicarchive.org/music/Broke_For_Free/
#Filmento #StarWars #TheLastJedi

[@DrShaym]

They tried to make The Last Jedi darker and more serious in tone, but at the same time, they intersperse it with really dumb gags for cheap laughs that completely undercut whatever seriousness it was supposed to have.

[@guardianknight5417]

True it's just a tonal mess

[@jamesfontana3135]

Kind of reminds me when R2 gets spit out by that swamp monster in Empire. Then the scene ends with him comically spitting oil out of himself. Cue womp womp womp...

[@ZeRafut]

if only that was the only real problem going on with this movie..

[@Sesshomaru1]

@James Fontana my comment didn't show up for some reason. I think it was due to the algorithm believing it to be spam or something because I had a link. Anyways that scene is completely different.

[@donovanwiebe2495]

The part where Rey's parents are reveiled to be nobody's is where my opinion of the movie changed and I realized "Oh. This is actually really good"

[@Random_Number]

17:00 -- Rose is introduced, mourning the death of her sister Paige, a character with 30 seconds of screen time over the past 40 years. Glad Rian Johnson had time for that, but *no time* to show Luke mourning the loss of his best friend, Han Solo -- a major part of the series for the past 40 years. :/

[@JP-sp9bm]

Haha, this alone should show everyone why this movie sucks so bad.

[@asz1029]

The worst thing? They filmed the scene where Luke is grieving Han. AND THEN FUCKING CUT IT OUT.

[@qty1315]

You know what's even worse? The reason why the scene was cut is most likely because they wanted to sell Blu-ray Discs by promising that the scene was on the discs.

[@VicEntity]

That is not his fault lol. I am pretty sure he filmed a scene like. If you want to blame someone blame the editors...

[@VicEntity]

Nathan Young It’s a man called Bob Ducsay. I just looked it up on google.

[@Vulgarth1]

Killing Snoke wasn't ballsy, because Snoke wasn't even a character.

[@Starman.2957]

SushiJaguar lmao

[@baaLsecundus]

He was as much a character as the Emperor was in the Empire and ROTJ.

[@Petaurista13]

@@baaLsecundus Not really.

[@baaLsecundus]

@@Petaurista13 Sure he was

[@nathanaelwaters2509]

Trying to make her not related to anyone was thought

[@domhuckle]

I always thought kylo's guilt over han would drive him to seek redemption, and Rey's anger over her abandonment would open her to the dark - the last film would be kylo saving rey from the dark

[@ninjanibba4259]

Too bad that didn’t happen

[@domhuckle]

@@ninjanibba4259 I heard so many good ideas float around - luke would return as a force ghost to haunt Kylo and turn him from the dark. Fin would lead an internal rebellion of child slave stormtroopers to take the first order down from within just as they were about to defeat the last Republic base. Rey thinks she's on a mission to stop/save Kylo, but it's actually driven by her own grief at being abandoned and she gets seduced by the effect these emotions have on her powers. Rey and Kylo get together at the end to put an end to the Jedi and sith and form a new, fully rounded force appreciation society (the skywalkers?) to heal the galaxy and help it sustain a new democratic movement. Just fan fiction, but it kinda makes what we got a little worse in comparison

[@ninjanibba4259]

@@domhuckle ikr? It's sad fanfiction can do better than movies, that just shows they don't care honestly

[@domhuckle]

@@ninjanibba4259 it seems strange that there's so much imagination and creativity surrounding these characters and this story, but that there must have been some kind of forcefield around the writers room where none of it could get in :)

[@ninjanibba4259]

@@domhuckle yeah it's called the forcechoke by Disney Mickey

[@omgjlmiub]

Most people, like 90% of people don’t hate rose for being a female or asian. I hate her because she has terrible writing. Her character sucked and didn’t contribute anything to the plot. Finn and Rose could’ve been cut entirely and nothing would change.

[@Skymoc4]

Im preaty sure that the houle movie could have been cut and *NOTHING* would have changed

[@lieutenantjacobin]

@@Skymoc4 no, cutting the movie wouldve changed something: It wouldve saved Star Wars from certain death

[@Skymoc4]

@@lieutenantjacobin Wow, I'm speechless... u truly ha e the *high ground*

[@TheKHUE]

I’m not saying you’re one of them, but if the hate on Rose was because of terrible writing, then why did so many people bully the ACTOR not the writer?

[@willigagbob8243]

@@TheKHUE because some people's mind can't separate simple things.

[@burritosforlater]

for what it's worth it did subvert my expectations. I thought it was going to be a good movie.

[@ryanm.8720]

Same. I though we'd explore the backstory of Snoke, have Captain Phasma not get defeated anti-climatically for a change, and have General Hux be a serious and competent antagonist like he was in The Force Awakens. I also expected the first two to survive the film, since they've barely had a chance to do anything, and I assumed that General Hux survived the film so he'd be a recurring character in the sequel.

[@melancholyentertainment]

L

[@davidludwig3975]

👍

[@Sky-pg6xy]

I didnt even bother to watch it. They clearly dont care so neither do I.

[@ultrabigfella]

@@ryanm.8720 To be fair, what was Rian to do with Snoke? JJ didn't tell him who Snoke was, because JJ didn't know.

[@davidbrasher3595]

Before a trilogy is started, one single writer or team of writers must make a detailed outline of all three movies. It is madness to start a trilogy and have no plan what will happen, and to have different writers who are not working together write different movies.

[@emhu2594]

There was, ryan johnson just ignored all of it and did his own thing.

[@Handzoffire]

I think it's what JJ had in mind, it's how 4,5 and 6 was made... it was only going to be just one movie at first and had a different director each time.

[@liljenborg2517]

You know, like George Lucas did when he wrote the first Star Wars movie or that Indiana Jones series he made with Spielberg, both of which were made with no expectations of, or even really plans for, sequels ever being made. The notion of making film trilogies planed out as trilogies from the get-go, is actually a very recent phenomena (Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings was actually one of the first). A lot of movie series were started with no plan to become a series (from movies like Back to the Future to Jaws to Godfather to Toy Story) because few movie studios are willing to sign off on sequels until after they've seen the box office returns from the first movie.

[@matthieuwojcik6609]

@@liljenborg2517 Can agree with that, except this little, tiny thing : Back to the future, Jaws, Godfather, Toy Story, Indiana Jones... None of those franchise were made as an overarching story, with each movie setting up the next one. Wich is clearly the case for this Star Wars sequel trilogy. This kind of writting might be a recent phenomena, but it is slowly but surely becoming a standart for AAA productions and was already something to expect from a new Star Wars trilogy, after the Prelogy being written like that. This brutal switch of writting betwen different producers really, really hurt the sequels. And since you can see in the next Star Wars trailer Kylo's mask being reforge, my bet is that the third movie will have this problem too.

[@jero667]

Movies are no art anymore... Just products to be sold

[@jchacho6335]

You assume JJ Abrams had answers for all of the questions he set up. As a fan of Lost, I can tell you that he most likely did not.

[@Carabas72]

Or Fringe, or Alias...

[@xavigarcia9372]

Or anything he does, he likes to set big things but makes always the same mistake that a novice would do: he don't write the end of his stories

[@Gaveno112]

lol very true. Lost was just one big never ending setup that never paid off.

[@trevordavis6830]

That's the big problem with JJ and why I'm not excited for episode 9. He knows how to create interesting set ups and hooks but doesn't know how to satisfyingly conclude most of them.

[@Carabas72]

@@trevordavis6830 Well, generally he buggers off and lets somebody else conclude what he has 'set up'. He generally does better with stand-alone films where he HAS to come up with an ending himself.

[@flankspeed]

"What is the point of all of this if we can't destroy three tiny cruisers?" General Hux would be excellent at CinemaSins. It's a pity that he's so unbelievably, comically, abysmally incompetent at absolutely everything else.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

But isn't CinemaSins unbelievably, comically, abysmally incompetent?

[@ryanm.8720]

General Hux was played seriously in The Force Awakens before becoming a joke in The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker. General Pryde is pretty much Hux if he hadn't turned into a buffoon.

[@laufert7100]

"General Hux would be excellent at CinemaSins" is this a Th3Birdman reference?

[@flankspeed]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 Only comically.

[@aidan9990]

Ok here's why I didn't like it in the least toxic, and concise way I can put it. - Luke was terribly written. His father committed atrocities for some 15+ years as darth vader, and he still wanted to, and succeeded in turning him to the light. Ben solo has some dark side-ish intentions so luke decides to murder him in his sleep?? Luke wasn't written well. - Finn didn't develop a single bit, his whole arc in TFA was coming to be selfless and care for the resistance and others than himself. Then at the start of TLJ he is trying to run away, and goes through the same arc again, with an INCREDIBLE, very well written payoff. He sacrifices himself for the resistan- wait no he doesn't, rose saves him from a conclusive character arc, which brings me to my next point. - Rose was bad. She saved finn from a very good payoff to his development over the last 2 films, and her reasoning for doing so is saving what you love, as the laser battering thing is about to bust down the door and kill all her friends. So, she stops finn from saving what he loves, because he should be saving what he loves, not saving what he loves? Wha? - Admiral Holdo was also bad, just tell finn your damn plan, even after getting mutinied she keeps it a secret? Does that not seem really really stupid to the rest of you? And the hyperspace kamikaze was cool and visually pleasing it didn't make sense in a universe where autopilots are very plausible to exist, and her sacrifice was really just meaningless in all honesty if you think about it. - The conflict made no sense. Ok if you are running out of gas in space right, with no gravity, and you run out of gas going top speed, you don't slow down. There's no fucking gravity you could reach top speed and then cut the engines and you would *keep drifting*. - Snoke and Rey's parentage were wasted as you all know, I can understand this choice because of the theme of forgetting the past, both of those things were significant parts of their past and getting them out of the way was part of that theme, but JJ built both of those things up so much and to just say "no they are nobody, and snoke got killed", is disappointing. there's my pretty legitimate I think, reasoning for not liking it.

[@christianspradlin3929]

Very well said!

[@alekra3521]

I gotta add 1 more point coming from my perspective. - Rey being a Mary Sue

[@9FlyingDutchman]

%1000 Correct there STRAF3x

[@DMoneyTaz15]

Yeah you would only need fuel to accelerate in space lol not to just keep going

[@justinb954]

STRAF3x-how about TLJ having "bombers" in space? you need a lil gravity for bombers. I predict that Rey will become emperor because she thinks its the right thing to do against Kylo Ren.

[@ChaosIsaacZero]

That explanation from Rian Johnson about the force projection already being in universe was, in it self, made non-canon by Disney and so, unestablished for the purposes of the Disney timeline as it is not part of 'Legends'.

[@ChaosIsaacZero]

@JeremyCuddles But his explanation for it was a *non-canon material that's not in the movies series*. That's pretty bad for a major plotpoint and death of a beloved character for 40 years. It's a major power that has had no hinting of or been shown to us. It's a bit as jarring as Force Speed in Phantom Menace, as it comes out of nowhere and is dropped. For how it was used, it needs way more than 'oh this movie made it canon'.

[@rundownpear2601]

Chaos Isaac every Star Wars movie made up force powers and I like that it’s at least hinted at in this movie when kylo says to Rey like “you can’t be doing this projection the effort would kill you” so I appreciate that it’s at least mentioned

[@Usernamesdontmatter1]

@JeremyCuddles I think the issue is that he tried to use non-canon material to justify him not explaining thay Luke could do such an ability.

[@Anima_Kesil]

Yeah, I was just thinking that too. When Disney straight up declared everything as "non-canon" when they started up Episode 7, and decided to go for erasure of the extended universe for all practical purposes, it doesn't let you just straight up use that extended universe as justification for literally anything in the movie lol. That definitely got on my nerves.

[@Luey_Luey]

the force ghost thing is stupid and pointless because it didn't really achieve anything that couldn't have been achieved with him being there in person and is a waste of potential. I don't even disagree with the ability existing from a lore perspective, it was just poorly and disappointingly implemented in the movie Luke actually being there 1) lets an actual clash of lightsabers happen instead of ghostLuke matrix dodging Kylo's stupidly slow swing to maintain the idea that hes there, 2) doesn't immediately kill off the tension when it's realized that he's not actually there or in danger, and 3) makes his death meaningful in that it gives Luke a satisfying send-off and also cements the threat of Kylo as Luke's killer, raising the stakes further for Rey in the following film Luke being a force projection answers the question of how he got to the planet and how he survives the rain of laser blasts and not much else. The first is easy because his old x-wing is on the island planet still and the writers could've had the ship work still after it is lifted out (which is exactly what happens in RoS anyway), and the second is a non-issue because there was no reason for the laser blast to happen other than it being visually appealing. Kylo should have instead immediately opted to face Luke down personally and without hesitation or trying to win the 'easy way' first: because in an ideal world where this movie was good, Kylo would actually be a well-developed and menacing villain who has the confidence and/or arrogance to face Luke from the get-go worse yet, since Luke ends up dying anyway from over-exertion or some shit it makes the whole 'force projection' scheme to delay Kylo without actually putting himself in harm's way even more pointless. if the main character is going to be killed off in this sequence either way then what is the point of having him not actually be there and die in person? its just monumental stupidity

[@schlummerkatze795]

It's not the story decisions that made me angry about this movie. It's the discontinuation of story threads from the previous episode. And the way they framed "strong empowered women" as "like the boys only better and smarter and always right". (I happen to be a woman and this trend makes me mad. Why can't female heroes fail and grow and become stronger like everyone else? Why have they to be perfect and strong and secretly brilliant from the beginning to the end?) Poe came from an honest angle and risked life and limb for what he believed to be the right course of action. And not only Holdo framed him as a "trigger happy male" the movie did, too. Also the movie frames Holdos illogical choice to not disclose information to Poe and the rest of the crew as justified and to me it made no sense at all. There was good stuff in there but in my mind the internal logic of the movie was to weak to keep things together, like Finns and Roses side quest for example.

[@codeN_8]

Say that sis.

[@danceswithgerbals1]

Totally agree. I have two daughters that I love. I want them to grow up strong and confident. I want them to succeed. I want them to realize that they are just as good as anyone else. I want them to fail, learn from it, and become better. Yet how does Disney portray "strong women"? They have to be better than the boys. They have to beat them at everything (often times physically) with half the training, no life experiences, and zero failure. If my daughters were to base their success off of Disney logic, then the first boy they can't physically outdo, mentally crush on a subject they know nothing about, or fail _at anything_ then they are not a "strong". Fortunately I am not letting Disney raise my daughters. Yet how many little girls are going to grow up with a Disney strong women mentality? How many little boys have grown up in our society feeling inferior because they are not the strongest physically and we put so much emphasis on physical strength? And these boys are on the same genetic "playing field" so-to-speak. Disney is so out of touch that they can't even see the actual mental harm they will do in their crusade to be on the "right side" of women's rights history.

[@ArbiterofTruth]

Maybe women should not have any rights? At least for s time. The whole "punish all because of a few" thing. Let it simmer, then boil. The many will find the few, beat them to a pulp, and then return the rights.

[@tomaszwota1465]

@@ArbiterofTruth It could work on a small scale like it does in the army, but on large scale you're just setting yourself for a defeat.

[@jackbandit2114]

@@danceswithgerbals1 Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a great role model for younger girls if you're into that. Also Ellen Ripley who is like the baddest bitch ever, but Buffy is good because it's a fairly long running series.

[@Mgyuh]

Filmento in 2018: “All things considered, Episode IX will probably be one of the most difficult movies to script in Hollywood history” 2019: ”According to sources within Lucasfilm, there are 6 cuts of Episode IX, and they are doing reshoots because they need to modify the story. They are leaking plot details as market research, to gauge what the audience will react to” You, Sir, are a seer.👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@jedidethfreak]

Link to that last point?

[@CynicallyObnoxious]

And its had reshoots and rewrites through out production and just like what happened to SOLO im like balloon that budget bitch GROW GROW GROW

[@pyromite38]

Not only that. 24:47 Filmento talks about MaRey Sue's parents, and shows the image of Jar Jar and Palpatine. According to leaks of ep 9, Palpatine is MaRey's grandfather.

[@tyrkun1624]

@@pyromite38 Correct

[@HollerPlayers]

....uhhh but literally anybody with a brain who had seen those movies would know that. After one movie sets up something and another has torn it all down, the third one is OBVIOUSLY going to be challenging. That's like saying water is wet and the fuckin sky is blue, and it doesn't take being a "seer" to see that.

[@MichaelPlaczek]

If TLJ is revealed to be Finn's nightmare while in the coma, then I'll probably watch EP9

[@stefanoolivotto2391]

Same here man. It would be the ONLY time I could tolerate a "it was all a dream!" cliché.

[@TheIndianaGeoff]

That works. Just rename TLJ to Song of the South and all is forever wiped away.

[@valthiriansunstrider2540]

Same, that's a brilliant idea in this situation

[@emiliochavez5121]

That’s the only way to save episode 9

[@sledgehammer301]

Its been done before and worked with Dallas, a 80's TV show. A whole season which included the death of a main character, was wiped clean, when the start of the new season shows that dead character (Bobby) having a shower and saying it was all a dream. So yeah erase the whole damn SW shit after Return of the Jedi, and start again.

[@Kyrax88]

Can't believe you forgot to mention the biggest plot hole in Star Wars history: what's now known as the Holdo Manuever. Also, Capt. Phasma?

[@MrMalicious5]

Phasma was just a vehicle to sell toys.

[@TheSchultinator]

Captain Who?

[@vernonhampton5863]

... those are not plot holes. Those are characters or things you don't like.

[@joebomb1019]

@@vernonhampton5863 Phasma was supposedly put into a trash compacter on Starkiller base and was either compacted or blown up until the Last Jedi came out. I don't really care about that, we didn't see her die and she didn't do much. However the Holdo Maneuver effectively ruined every major space battle in Star Wars by asking one question: if it worked then, why not in every other battle? Why not fly a transport ship to destroy the Death Star and save the rest of the Rebellion? One transport would easily be worth taking down a Death Star in both relative cost and impact. Why not use single X-WIngs piloted by droids to destroy Super Star Destroyers, or to target Vader/Palpatine's ship? In The Last Jedi, there is no explanation. The Rise of Skywalker gives one, (it supposedly has a 1/1,000,000 chance of succeeding) but that means that Holdo had a 99.999% chance of missing. Sure, there may be attempts at explaining that, but they aren't good and they aren't supported by the movies.

[@Nyghtking]

@@joebomb1019Indeed, the holdo maneuver essentially rendered everything that had happened in every war pointless, because if you were in a war and expecting to lose ships and people, why not sacrifice a single ship to take out something much bigger and more valuable? A single x-wing would have dealt huge damage to the deathstar doing that if not out right destroyed it.

[@vincentchen5318]

"We can't catch them because they are lighter." They're in SPACE.

[@pugasaurusrex8253]

Logic

[@nicholaswilson1851]

In legends it was explained that the Mon Cal cruisers are faster than Imperial Star Destroyers but unfortunately they aren’t cannon anymore

[@jaxonjohannson]

Inertia exactly

[@fernandogimenez7520]

Rose´s Sister Dropping bombs in The Space

[@alexboehm3919]

Fernando Gimenez nothing wrong with that though 👍

[@ShaolinDL]

Imagine if Mark Hamill dug in his heels and refused to shoot that scene.

[@MrCarpediem6]

I don't know if he really contractually could have.. They own his character Luke .. And he pointedly for The Last 5 Years ever since Disney has bought them up has had qualms about what Disney and later specifically Johnson has been doing to Star Wars and to Luke.. But whatever he says and does, whatever qualms he's had at various interviews and sessions.. He's always come back to the point that Disney owns the character can do with it as they want.

[@ShaolinDL]

Hey, there is always a choice, even if choices have consequences.

[@Hgoenge81]

Let's not forget that Mark played Luke in three movies over 30 years ago, and he played exactly what George told him to. He started out as a whiny wimp, became a padawan who disobeys the wiser Jedi to try to save his friends and fails spectacularly with one hand less, only to be much much stronger in trotj. But I don't believe there's anything personal of Mark in his portrayal, so I don't think he knows "what Luke would truly be like" 30 years later, any more than any other moron.

[@ninjanibba4259]

@@Hgoenge81 the point of it all was that he climbed his way to power and it was earned, plus in his wisdom, you could see that he wanted to save his father badly when he understood why he turned to the Dark Side So why would he suddenly change that perception for his nephew? His sisters child? That makes no sense, when you’re in the business of helping others, you don’t just change that, time doesn’t matter on that

[@RiseUpToYourAbility]

@@ShaolinDL and Rian had the choice of not making a shit movie.

[@invinciblereason1618]

The six things i hated most about TLJ were: 1. Luke being turned into some self hating, depressed old man who nearly killed his nephew as soon as he senses some rebellious teen hormones yet his father was literally a dark lord of the sith who wiped entire populations but he spared him and spends god knows how many years on some random island crying about his temple and drinking tiddy milk. Also not being given the chance to die like a true hero and is instead still sat on that island and uses force shitpost to distract kylo instead of fighting him face to face. 2. They built snoke up for a good two and a half years having fans speculating over his real identity only to kill him off suddenly with him only having about 10 minutes of screen time throughout both movies even though he was the most interesting character (also killed in a shit way like luke but didn't make sense) Could use the force to connect rey and kylo's minds from across the galaxy in order to manipulate and get rey in a trap but couldn't sense kylo was going to switch the saber on. Seems legit. 3. Rey's parents, something else people were speculating for 2 years and had the potential to be an awesome reveal turned out to be... nobody. So her parents were nobodies but she has this great connection to the force and learned what it took luke forever to do in 5 minutes. Also seems legit. Very disappointing and a huge missed opportunity. 4. Turned phasma into a boba fett that has about 2 mins of screen time and gets blasted into space and loses everytime she faces the rebellion even though she clearly looks like she can handle herself. At least boba captured han. 5. The casino planet. The whole scene. 6. Rose tico. I found her character very meh but the icing on the cake was at the end where she stopped fin from sacrificing himself. He was also a character i didn't care for but just as i was about to respect him for sacrificing himself to save the rebellion she comes along and ruins it just for one cringy line. Literally put the whole rebellion at risk and if not for luke with his wizardry she would have single handedly fucked the whole rebellion. That isn't even all the things. I could go on and on about the forced humour, princess poppins, the blatant similarities/ripoffs of the empire strikes back ect but i would be here all day. Looking back, it was worse than i thought.

[@GeneralBulldog54]

1. I hope in TRoS, this is explained (then again, I wished it was explained in TLJ). Luke feeling depressed that he nearly killed his nephew, dark turn from the usually doubtful optimist okay explain it. If it was explained that, Luke (in the words of Yoda, always looking to future but never looking at where he is in the moment), pulled his saber because he saw no light in Ben (like at all. In Vader, he saw the conflict and the light in him) but only Snoke's influence over him, I could see him going into action after seeing a potential dire future where he saw Han, Leia and his students' deaths. 2. I don't remember any buildup of Snoke (Phasma is another story) outside of fan theory. Now, had Snoke been a broken piece of Palpatine it could lead to something new. For instance, Snoke taught Ben at a young age how to separate himself from the light allowing him to gain access to untold power. The only caveat, is that the Force creates a new life from the remainder and Rey is that remainder. It's not saying someone, like Shmi Skywalker was a nobody. Even on the scale of things, it was only the first (major) of many steps to Anakin's path to the dark. 3. Same thing in 2. A path was set and symbolism there from the Jedi pool in Luke's temple or through Kylo/Rey's Force communication or their connection in TFA. Scavenger gets inside head of uber powerful Force user and bests him in combat? Something's off here. Why is Kylo getting the call from the light (Leia's hope) in TFA and why does Rey get a call to the dark but isn't seduced by its power? The power of their link should be enough to kill them or the interloper but it's not Snoke pulling the strings. It's because they're two sides of the same being. She is Ben's light half personified whereas Kylo Ren is no conflicted as much as broken and no longer whole. So to answer the question, it's not that Rey's parents are nobody or were some mystery, they're were never integral to the plot to begin with (much like Snoke, Phasma or DJ) they were simply obstacles for character to overcome. 4. Yeah, I can't defend that. They did her dirty and her deleted scene showed how calculating she could've been. 5. Seems to take less time on re-watch. That said, the venture did expand the lore. If the Resistance was quietly funded by the New Republic, then the First Order was funded by the elite here on Canto Bight (whether through arms sales or other investments, I just think if the group were sympathizers to the Empire they'd probably be human (just look at the OT)). 6. Rose had a good setup, I just hated how she essentially became Finn's Jiminy Cricket compared to DJ as Lampwick (yes, Finn is Pinocchio) However, in spite of its flaws, it has many. It was the first to purposely connect to the prequels. Illustrate the majesty of the Force as something of nature, not quantifiable. Made Luke interesting (at least to me, I thought Han, Leia and Lando were better and Luke was simply there in the OT. Here, he had lost his optimism, bound by legend he was undone because he was human, could have left the mourning scene that cut to Leia mourning). Introduced, new concepts to the lore (one that became a plot point in Solo),

[@phousefilms]

1. The Jedi forever were about stopping dark siders before they gained power, no matter if they were saveable or not. Remember that Windu tried to kill Palpatine the second he was disarmed and Obi Wan didn't attempt to sway Anakin when he realized he had become a Sith(with him and Yoda similarly telling Luke on Dagobah he had to kill Vader). He instinctively drew his lightsaber because he believed he could stop him when Ben had been corrupted by Snoke and he realized it, but then he realized he was an idiot. Luke has long been a person of instinct, even when it went against plans(going to save Leia when the groups original plan was to escape the Death Star, leaving Dagobah with his training unfinished, leaving the team to save his father, etc;) Luke not facing Ben in person is one of the most Jedi things ever, defending the Resistance and doing so non violently(which was always the Jedi way). Besides, he couldn't have left the planet in any form because his X-Wing was destroyed(the metal door Chewie busts in early in TLJ is one of the wings and the rest is sunk, most likely for years). 2.No defence for that. I do want to know what Snokes backstory was, how he turned Ben and who he was before he took control of TFO, but I don't need a whole trilogy for it. Maybe A comic. But Snoke has no more info than we had on the Emperor in the original and he was super built up, only to die being tossed down a shaft and exploding. Probably Johnson was trying to copy that, only with the "betrayer"staying evil. 3.They've said Reys sudden ability to use the Force so perfectly is because of Ben linking with her in his attempt to force(lol)his way into her mind and even her force and lightsaber skills aren't that great. Snoke easily whipped her around, she beat Ben....who was limping and bleeding from a wookie bowcaster shot, she took five tries to do a Jedi mind trick on one stormtrooper and she lifted some rocks. Don't know why people treat it like her being Yoda in Episode 2. As to her parents, thats one of the major points that I love about TLJ. She....isn't.....anybody....important. She's not Lukes daughter, she's not Bens secret twin, she's not Obi Wans granddaughter and she's not Vaders nephews cousins former roommate. She's nobody. Now on the other side of the card, theres Ben. Son of two heroes of the Galactic Civil War, nephew to a third, grandson of Vader/Anakin, etc; Even the ending with Broomboy before the credits shows that anybody can be a hero, even if they're not part of the Skywalker legacy. Bens legacy is one of the reasons he's so twisted. 4.Still don't think Phasma's dead, that damn armours been hyped so much. 5.The casino wasn't that bad. It shows how war profiteers live in the galaxy and introduces us to the kids, among whom is the Force Sensitive kid who is inspired by the Resistance. Hardly useless. 6. Thats really silly. Finns sacrifice was going to FAIL. It was said straight up that his speeder was breaking up and he wouldn't make it before the cannon blew him into Finn shaped ashes. While the romance was stupid and shoehorned, Finn being stopped from killing himself for nothing makes sense, as so many people had died all for their"heroism"throughout the movie. Rose's sister for one, and it was all pointless because Snoke had his bigger ship waiting in the wings.

[@xthor86]

@@phousefilms 6. Finn was moving at max speed, and Rose was going the other way. Yet she catches upp and overtakes him, and rams him in his side in about 2 seconds. She killed off the entire resistance with that. Even if it was going to fail, not trying at all was = everybody dies anyway. Hunky dory BS deus ex machina Luke magic prevented it, but NOONE saw that coming. And they didnt both get absolutly massacred by the first order just laying out there in the open. And on top off that, managed to run a couple of kilometers in 2 seconds.

[@Comkill117]

I don’t have anything to add to this, I just wanted to say Force Shitpost is the best thing I’ve read in a while.

[@jacobclark2409]

Yea here’s what I hate about TLJ: Everything... Rian “Cuckboy” Johnson himself. I feel sorry that Mark Hamill has to Participate is such a pile of shit.

[@daneyal7162]

I can accept Luke making a mistake and regretting it, since we all make mistakes, but the fact is that he chose to run away from facing his mistake, and in his absence, Kylo Ren and the First Order killed who knows how many people...and THAT is something that I can't forgive the writers for doing.

[@domhuckle]

You realise that by the time Rian got a hold of the trilogy, Luke had already been away for years and the first order had risen? That's on JJ's shoulders surely?

[@domhuckle]

@MrRight James a man needs to have something to redeem himself for if redemption is gonna be satisfying. Always thought he'd come back as a force ghost to haunt kylo, bring him back to the good side and then kylo would save rey from her darkness and the 2 would strike out as something new - not Jedi or sith. In this way luke could be responsible for the balancing of the force after all. Plus, you realise that while luke was away, the first order destroyed like 5 planets? What would he be protecting?

[@domhuckle]

@MrRight James you are right, and I think JJ did screw it up both in the plot threads he handed to Rhian and in the way he muguffin'd his way to the end of the trilogy. What would you have done with luke having been given the screenplay at the end of force awakens?

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

@@domhuckle I think a good solution would have been having Luke being trapped on that planet. Like he wanted to get back into the action but was physically unable since he lacked a ship. Another possible explanation is Luke is training his next generation of Jedi and but they are not yet strong enough. He desperately wants to help but he knows he needs a squad of Jedi to win but also can't reenter the fight until those Jedi are ready to fight. Those are legitimately the reasons why I thought Luke was waiting prior to seeing the Last Jedi. Maybe Rey being there would bolster his forces and give him the confidence to decide that this was the time to get involved. Simply put, there were so many more in-character reasons for why Luke hadn't entered the fight yet that would have expanded the rosters of Star Wars Jedi. Like I think a film where we see multiple student Jedi enter the fray is a lot more interesting than a slow chase between the FO and Resistance. But Rian went with the ludicrous idea that Luke had just given up. And he also went with the ludicrous idea of making the FO suddenly rule the galaxy when the FO only seemed like a terrorist group in Force Awakens. The sad fact is there were lots of ways for Rian Johnson to take the story in interesting and more natural ways even when given the ending of Force Awakens. But instead of building on a lot of the opportunities the Force Awakens presented, Rian made things even worse with the Last Jedi.

[@domhuckle]

@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi yeah, you're probably right. Bit weird that he went with the "tries to kill a child" route when there were others available

[@ace_ofchaos9292]

“The thing about opinions on the internet is that they’re all wrong. Unless they’re mine.” Mr. Plinkett

[@adamlong1196]

Plinkett can eat shit!!! He's responsible for this mess!!

[@fara.r.8181]

Mr Plinkett is a shithead

[@adrenjones9301]

@@adamlong1196 Responsible? Can you elaborate?

[@Lord_Reavous]

@@adrenjones9301 RedLetterMedia's video essays critiquing the Prequels (in the character of Mr. Plinkett) along with The People vs. George Lucas are largely credited as the motivation for Lucas to abandon Lucasfilm and retire with his wife and new child. Whether or not it's entirely true only George knows. But he caught a lot of flak for his clunky dialogue and some poor decisions (for example: over-reliance on special effects). As an aside, many of the criticisms RedLetterMedia put forth have some merit--but it was probably the intensity for lack of a better word. I know this response is late, but so was I.

[@DJMarcO138]

@@Lord_Reavous and yet Plinkett was 10000% right in every bit of his critique of the prequels, which were objectively far more garbage than the sequels, because Lucas had SO MUCH KNOWN TALENT and he absolutely wasted them all with terrible dialogue and direction. The entire Anakin/Padme romance is HOT GARBAGE, and it's a central theme of the freakin' saga. And that's just ONE aspect. They LOOK nice. The last movie has some good action - but the prequels were exactly as Plinkett said, made for drooling babies and morons who just wanted nothing but "MOAR LIGHTSABURRS".

[@God_Is_An_Atheist]

I just realized that the Critics Consensus on Rotten Tomatoes says that "The Last Jedi honors the saga's rich legacy [...]" - no, it does not honor the saga or it's legacy in any way, and that is the problem.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I have more of a problem with the statement "saga's rich legacy". Like since when does Star wars have a rich legacy.

[@God_Is_An_Atheist]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 A multi-billion $ Franchise that had major success at the Box Office (yes, even the new trilogy), that created a merchandise empire and thousands of stories and characters in games, comics and books, that inspired several writers, directors and artists and even influenced technology by creating fans that went on to get jobs to make their dreams that Star Wars gave them come true - And you don't consider that a "rich legacy"? I'm not saying that you have to love the franchise, hate it if you want to, but it certainly has a rich legacy that very few other film franchises come even close to.

[@abidakram1159]

legrandliseur tri bruh there's literally a lightsaber fencing sport and there are small businesses that makes money from making various designs of lightsaber. You really think star wars doesn't have legecy??? It has the biggest and most influential legecy in entertainment history that has been going strong for over 3 decades.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@God_Is_An_Atheist Great, it made a lot of money. I don't see how that's a rich legacy.

[@God_Is_An_Atheist]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 okay... this wasn't the only point I made, though.

[@devingiannini2077]

I actually disagree completely on the idea that Han's death was one of the most emotional SW moments... I felt very very little. I wasn't surprised b/c they telegraphed it from a mile away. I wasn't connected to Han anymore since they literally reversed his entire character development from the OT at the start of the movie to recreate the same guy we met in the beginning of ep IV and it felt very artificial to me. They reduced him to a plot device for getting Rey and Finn access to the higher ups in the resistance and mostly the relationships between Han and both Rey and Kylo felt shallow and superficial, leaving any payoff for the death feeling extremely weak for me.

[@michaelminervini1908]

it was really great how, when they got back. Leia runs to hug Rey (who only just met Han) and ignores Chewbacca completely. WTF !?

[@viljamtheninja]

Eh, Han Solo was a bandit with a heart of gold; he learned to take responsibility when necessary but his entire personality and attitude toward life didn't change, that would have been weird. It seems like you're implying he should've just wound up getting the Star Wars equivalent of a regular 9-5 desk job, and THAT would be out of character. I think it's just that his acting felt a little stale and uninspired; he really didn't seem that excited to be there, which of course is why they killed him off in the first place.

[@viljamtheninja]

@@michaelminervini1908 Yeah, that part was one of the dumbest things of the entire sequel trilogy.

[@devingiannini2077]

@@viljamtheninja I think you're missing the point. Han was the same rough and tumble rogue throughout the OT, but he grew as a character and went from "I'm not in this for your revolution. I expect to be well paid," to being extremely torn between helping the rebels and getting the bounty taken off of his head, to being a rebellion general leading a borderline suicide mission in the name of the cause. I'm not expecting his personality to take a massive shift out of nowhere, but it makes no sense that he would go from being a key player in the rebellion/new republic where in all likelihood he would want to participate in establishing the new republic, to going right back to being an outlaw and swindling people for money. I agree that it wouldn't line up w/ Han's personality if he was a run of the mill beauracrat, but there are plenty of things he could do for the new republic that would fit his personality. Even if he was given a beauracratic job I think it would be interesting to see how that affects him. Maybe he is sick of a desk job so he goes off on his own to find Luke, or he starts doing clandestine ops for the republic... or maybe he even becomes an outlaw again, not to smuggle goods for money, but acting as part of the extra-judicial portion of the resistance. The thing that makes no sense is that he helps establish the new republic, is married to a very powerful figure in the republic, is best friends with the master of the new jedi order and his reaction to everything falling apart is "better abandon everyone and go back to being a conman preoccupied with get rich quick schemes." The mere fact that they made smuggling for a quick buck a priority for him shows that they ignored all the character growth from the OT, which makes it not feel like the same character to me.

[@Azact]

@@viljamtheninjathey literally deconstructed him. The han in episode 7 is like the han in the beginning of episode 4. It makes no sense why he would just run away and become a smuggler because his son became evil

[@613harbinger316]

I find it laughable that to defend his decision on Luke's Force abilities, Johnson pulls out a published book on Star Wars lore. What about all the mountains of books published in the Star Wars universe that were declared null and void when Disney acquired Star Wars? Are they simply allowed to pick and choose what counts and what doesn't based on their whims, while demanding that fans get over their own butthurt? Kind of disrespectful and hypocritical.

[@brendancoulter5761]

Did you not find it at all hypocritical that captain "Let the past die" goes digging through ancient expanded universe books to excuse his bad writing.

[@Hoganply]

Are they allowed to pick and choose? Yes, you idiot, that's precisely why they did it; like the Marvel Universe and Comics, it's null until they can choose what part of it isn't. That's how resourceful creativity works. Not excusing his poor execution, but you're arguing against the wrong things. Force projection could have worked if it WEREN'T used as an ability exhibited at the the moment it was by a character whose presence makes more emotional impact if known to be real and actually physically vulnerable. It's idiotic to argue against the use of the ability. Rather, it'd be more consistent to argue against it's use in the aforementioned context.

[@Seargent363]

The Last Jedi is not about letting the past die. The only ones who said that were the villain - why would anyone agree with the villain - and Luke who was too focused on the past and the mistakes he made until Yoda woke him up by burning the tree down - and the Jedi books are still there, for Rey took them - and inspired him to move forward and be the Luke the Resistance needs. Besides force pulling the lightsaber was not a thing until Empire Strikes back and neither were force ghosts or moving large objects. And Hogan how would Luke have gotten there, for his ship is obviously in no condition to fly and if Luke was there, he could have just used the force against the walkers or pulled star destroyers out of the air, which fans would want to see and be hugely upset if he did not do something like that. By having him be a projection it takes away from him doing something like that and lessens fan outrage and it also plays into Kylo Ren not being perceptive and brash. Besides most of the audience did think he somehow made it there and was in danger.

[@tbowne05]

Yeah, I'd say the guy making a Star Wars movie can pick and choose what he wants to use from the 40 years of ideas.

[@NapoleonCalland]

That and the fact that Johnson didn't take the decision to throw the EU out of the window. He actually served up more fan service than Rogue One, if you look at the way he links Episode VIII to both the Prequel trilogy and the OT, as well as the Expanded Universe to bring in some of the lore that fans were complaining was missing. And without that Darth Plagueis = Snoke theory that made no sense and would have wrecked the whole arc of Anakin's redemption. ;)

[@jedidethfreak]

Hammil's performance was amazing. That just wasn't Luke.

[@bharn253]

Exactly. The sincere farmboy who never gives up and turns the tide. Vs the last three. Hide from everything.

[@traceyjackson9994]

Agreed

[@xxraddude3621]

Laltluangliana Sailop that was a more complex Luke lol

[@traceyjackson9994]

@@xxraddude3621 more complex luke my behind

[@xxraddude3621]

Tracey Jackson it’s true tho

[@reneelasswell3734]

TLJ has a serious tone, are you kidding? It literally starts with a terrible "your mother" joke. I agree the acting of Luke Skywalker was fantastic but what Rian Johnson did to the character should be a criminal offense. He took a character that inspired millions and turned him into a self-pitying, pathetic shell of a man who died without redeeming himself and now cannot do so. Unforgivable.

[@emiliochavez5121]

Yeah I can’t even get excited for episode 9. The last Jedi ruined Star Wars for me... I try to pretend it never happened

[@coryzilligen790]

@@emiliochavez5121 "The Last Jedi?" More like "The Last Star Wars film anybody watches."

[@thefirstbourne149]

Cory Zilligen Ok...jokes do not stop a movie from being dark. Everyone pretty much lost in that movie. It’s still a little darker than the previous film!!

[@RedFloyd469]

Wasn't his talk with Yoda and his eventual sacrifice to buy time for the resistance (or the republic, whatever) the part about his redemption? I'm pretty sure that was the intention.

[@coryzilligen790]

@@thefirstbourne149 First of all, I think you clicked reply on the wrong comment. Secondly, the movie is still a tonal mess. It's one thing to put jokes _between_ dramatic moments. It's another entirely to _repeatedly_ interrupt the dramatic moments with cheap humor, like TLJ does. The opening scene between Poe and Hux is a great example of this, as the jokes Poe makes at Hux's expense and Hux's childish reaction makes it impossible to take the First Order seriously in that scene, when _everything else_ about it is clearly supposed to be setting them up as something to be afraid of.

[@combatking0]

If Rey's parents were nobodies, how did Kylo know who they were?

[@KrazyKelor]

Doesn’t it kind of imply that he peered into her thoughts and found the truth because she knew it all along and just didn’t want to admit it?

[@claudewinters2091]

Also why did kylo get so upset when Rey was mentioned in the first movie ??

[@Junoripper]

@@claudewinters2091 also why the lightsaber that belonged to Anakin and Luke "called to her"??? Why did it show her visions?!

[@feralchangeling97]

"What girl!?"

[@AzkuulaKtaktu]

"If you're desperately looking for flaws to blast the last jedi with" That wellspring shall never be exhausted

[@lordinquisitordunn336]

Subverting exceptions seems to be just having multiple anticlimaxes over and over again rather than putting something that seems good in front and center while having something better waiting in the wings

[@eyesofthecervino3366]

Agreed. Subverted expectations should not feel like needing to sneeze and not being able to. That being said, I did really like the twist with hologram Luke -- like, nerding out in the theater wanting to rewind and watch the fight again level loved it. It was the only twist I felt was properly forshadowed; especially the moment I realized the cameras had made a big deal of showing us Kylo's feet repeatedly during the fight, just to rub it in that he's leaving footprints *and Luke isn't!* (Sorry. Still nerding out, apparently {:D ) But, yeah, most of the movie was unnecessary plot filler or sneeze disappointment :/

[@edytaszafraniec7837]

Subverting expectations is just a code name for inability to make an interesting movie.

[@kregorovillupo3625]

My expectations were totally subverted: i was expecting a "meh but ok" movie like the one before, instead it went full retard. My expectation of a good writer taking care of star wars were completely subverted.

[@qualitylawncare819]

"The movies are inversely proportional." Nope. Hate em both.

[@lonestarr1490]

Same here.

[@lt0295]

I used to think I didn’t like TFA, but then I started to like it and absolutely hate TLJ when I thought about how much of a major piece of shit Rian Johnson is for doing everything he did in that movie.

[@stefanoolivotto2391]

I truly started appreciating The Force Awakens as soon as I stepped out from the theatre after The Last Jedi.

[@royceabshire2453]

@@stefanoolivotto2391 Felt very much the same. I'm having very low expectations for Episode 9, still holding out hope that maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised but knowing that it's likely to be bad just nor as bad as it could be.

[@HarverTheSlayer]

I felt TFA was "meh, but well, they need to introduce a whole new demographic to Star Wars, so I can see why they're copying A New Hope. If the next one is good, then it's okay". And then TLJ came... Yeah, about all that...

[@TolonusCZ]

I actually like the Episode III the most because I absolutely love Ewan McGregor as my favourite Obi-Wan Kenobi.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

I love the movie and my favorite character has always been anakin.

[@babycumback1829]

"Saved Finn from an inconsequential course of action that would've ended his life." It would have been a great FINN-ish to his character arc though. I was not a big fan of her though.

[@ruifigueiredo5486]

i hate when people say that all we know is that it was a suicide mission suicide mission arent necessarily failures he could have died but saved the resistance and it would have been alot better than screaming rey for 9 hours

[@BabyGirlTiny]

no it wouldn't have been a great finish to his non arc

[@WeMissDimebag]

That’s also a bullshit defense of the character, since Rian Johnson is the one that wrote it so that they teased his sacrifice, only to then reveal that it wouldn’t have meant anything. That scenario only exists because he wrote it in. Finn didn’t have to try it, Rose didn’t have to stop him, and Rey didn’t have to be there just in time anyway. It’s horse shit.

[@MemesToa]

I've been a _Star Wars_ fanboy for my entire life. I was born the year before _The Phantom Menace_ dropped into theaters, I was part of the hype for _Revenge of the Sith_ in 2005, I dove into the deepest wells of the old Expanded Universe and quietly celebrated the coming of new blood to the fandom with Disney's half-reboot of the franchise. I had genuine hope for the films after seeing _The Force Awakens,_ which I still thoroughly enjoy to this day. But only as a standalone experiment thanks to its unfortunate legacy. I have only one thing to say about the hellish firestorm that is _The Last Jedi:_ It is a good movie, even a decent _Star Wars_ movie, but it is a horrible sequel.

[@docflights]

it has a lot of interesting ideas but leaves little room for a continuation of the story.

[@Blue-Apple-fc9eo]

@@docflights yea the last Jedi to me is a mixed bag but definitely better than the rise of skywalker in my opinion

[@Dumbstuffwatcher]

That's a pretty good summary. If they'd decided to make a sequel to ep7 rather than three separate movies, it would all have gone more smoothly.

[@galenjoyce8452]

I thought the last jedi was absolute dogshit.

[@Deathmare235]

It’s good cause it’s star wars but it also hurts Star Wars

[@tysonasaurus6392]

Imagine if he brought out her parents in chains and told her about all the horrible stuff they did after abandoning her for selfish reasons, he could try to convince her to kill them

[@emancoy]

Strange that if you overexert using the force, you die or be one with the force. The prequels, the none of the Jedi that overexert themselves and nobody died. Obi-Wan never overexert himself to be one with the force. Yoda was old, and didn't overexert himself to be one with the force. The sith regularly overexert themselves, and remains alive. So Luke dying made people in the cinema cry, while I get to scratch my head, and say What?!!

[@brufnus]

Well, actually we don't really know for sure if he's dead, right? Indeed, he disappears - but a good story teller could use this as camouflage for something more interesting than what the movies contains as they are. I doubt any of the previous story tellers are up to the task, though... they've done enough damage to the concept already. :-/ I do think it would be cool though, if this was just another hologram, created by Luke in case someone DID find him... makes sense, since he really doesn't want to be found, right? It could also protect him from the wrong guys - e.g. Sith - if they found him.

[@ManiacalClone]

brufnus I dunno. Rey and Leia both say that Luke is gone at the end of the movie. Maybe JJ will somehow explain it without Luke dying. I doubt it, though.

[@_Muzolf]

Stopped caring, i just view these as expensive fan fiction and nothing more. I don`t hate it anymore then i would hate some 9-year olds script where they insert themselves into the story and they beat everyone. It goes like this. "Whatever kid, if that is what tickles you. Just don`t expect me to pay for it."

[@Lunk42]

Except this fanfiction is canon which is kinda tragic.

[@thefran901]

Yeah, but you can just ignore the concept of what's canon and what's not and you'll be happy.

[@UTU49]

Great points by all 3 of you.

[@perfectcell5613]

@@Lunk42 OFFICIAL L2 ENGLISH and nope fan fiction

[@perfectcell5613]

@@thefran901 OFFICIAL L2 ENGLISH

[@minhlevuhoang5289]

Space: I give no gravity!!! Ryan Johnson: That ship was lighter, so... faster!

[@dkey201]

Think inertia instead of gravity here

[@mikethompson7046]

Yes less weight means less energy required to accelerate

[@IAmGeorgeLucas]

Johnson is a hipster who is more concerned with making something edgy and different than good.

[@joshelderkin9592]

George Lucas troll

[@maclunkeymedia7289]

George Lucas Well you sold the franchise so quit your whining.

[@6jackace]

still better than the trilogy directed by you

[@alejandrodecorse9437]

George Lucas Like the Prequels you made? Dumbass

[@Hoganply]

I agree with both you, George, _and_ logan.

[@johnnydelibasic7997]

I remember weeks before seeing TLJ, I had a dream of seeing the movie. But when I came home after watching the movie, I forgot everything. I was so sad and angry for forgetting the whole movie. Than I woke up and realised of was a dream. Then I saw the actual movie, and I wished that I could forget the whole movie, like I did in my dreams.

[@jakeic1]

Here’s a major plot hole, Leia gave Rey a bracelet that was to be used as a way to find the Resistabels after having found Luke. This is covered in FA and TLJ, then some 30 seconds later we have multiple people saying it’s impossible that the First Order tracked the Resistabels through light speed. Here's another kind of important issue with the film, the time period spanning the end of FA to the beginning of TLJ is less than a week. You know what would have made an interesting story, how the First Order went from no major holdings to owning the galaxy in seven days. Here’s kind of a minor issue, the way the weapons are depicted as working do not make sense. First it was the towers that couldn’t shoot one ship, then the bombers that basically self destruct upon a successful payload deliver, then the First Order fleet only carrying four tie fighters, then the energy weapons of the ships lobbing shots, to finally the speeders that fired zero shots and accounted for delaying the First Order advance for a grand total of 0 seconds, every single weapon system made no sense. Here's another minor problem, the Resistabels were running to the planet to contact their allies, who are their allies? I’m not sure what they spent on this piece of shit they called a movie, but it was clear they spent nothing on ensuring continuity.

[@TheSchultinator]

You will never be able to convince me that Rian Johnson did not deliberately set out to destroy as much of Star Wars as possible.

[@goddepersonno3782]

...ok if you're not open-minded you will never learn or understand anything new. That's not our job to correct, but yours

[@mcbean1]

@@goddepersonno3782 Are you suggesting there is an argument that would be more probable than RJ deliberately set out to destroy as much of Star Wars?

[@jaywu4804]

@@mcbean1 ye he just sucks

[@AnnoyingMoose]

That's why he is now known as Ruin Johnson.

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

For real. Like the Last Jedi wasn't just a bad Star Wars movie, attacked everything that made Star Wars beloved and unique with deliberate precision. You don't get a film like the Last Jedi by accident, it has to be deliberate. Rian stikes me as a man who as a lot of ego, as evidenced by how he refused to take any criticisms following this film. He never, ever even sympathized with anything dissenters had to say in any capacity. I think he went into the Last Jedi wanting to make his mark on cinema. But instead of creating something amazing like the greatest directors, writers, and actors etc have done, he decided to destroy something amazing. Because that's a lot easer than creating something amazing and it will be just as remembered for it's notoriety. And you can't tell me Rian didn't want to destroy parts of Star Wars. The Last Jedi destroyed classic characters, classic ideas, classic themes, and even the lore and continuity of the universe. A huge message the film was to destroy the past, kill it if you have to as said by Kylo and reenforced by Yoda destroying the Jedi tree housing the Jedi text, a moment that clearly symbolized breaking with the past. Rian wanted to break with the past and he did that. He killed any semblance of legacy and history in Star Wars but the problem is, legacy and history *defines* Star Wars. As such, the Last Jedi was an attack on Star Wars's very identity and it's obvious why the backlash was so severe. Fans love Star Wars love its history, legacy, and continuity meaning and were justifiably outraged when the Last Jedi deliberately destroyed those things.

[@himayamata]

I remember the time when they first showed the Last jedi trailer. Everyone were excited and people started making fan theories about Snoke, Luke becoming evil, Rey's parents or Rey's turning to the Dark Side. But when the movie came out, half of the fandom doesn't like it. Despised it.

[@thevoicej2511]

Pete Burrows the movie also happened to just be poorly written.

[@LadyDoomsinger]

Many of the scenes, ideas and characters of the sequels *could've* worked out well and have been glorious for a new Star Wars story. Grumpy Ol' Luke, disillusioned by 30 years of failures (eventually rediscovering his faith in himself and the Force) *could've* been great. Kylo Ren doing a "classic Sith" and murdering his master to take his place (surprising everyone by becoming the new "Big Bad" of the story) *could've* been great. An epic slow-paced chase through space, the Resistance a hair's breadth from annihilation (the stress and paranoia of being under constant threat leading to mutiny), *could've* been great. Rey's parents being nobodies, forcing her to reevaluate her own identity and goals (perhaps leading her towards the Dark Side) *could've* been great. Luke appearing as a Force projection to distract Kylo (maybe as his big comeback, before rejoining the Resistance in person or heck, even as a Force Ghost appearing to Leia or Rey) *could've* been great. If only it had been written in a way that made sense any kind of sense at all in relation to, the previous movies, the established character traits of the various characters, and internally within the movie itself.

[@joltster109]

This comment deserves an award

[@2ndairborneguy790]

is there a way to award certain comments on youtube?

[@nocrtname]

I’d like to add one, Kylo Ren offering Rey to join him in reigning together and her accepting could have been fantastic.

[@lucadappo9675]

exactly my opinion. This concepts were great. But the setting wasn't the right one. Episodes 7,8 and 9 should have been about the rise of Kylo Ren and about Luke falling into depression. With 10,11 and 12 being the actual sequels that we got. That's why depressed Thor in Endgame works (as a concept): we saw his struggle in Ragnarok and especially in Infinity War. We didn't get so to see Lukes version of it.

[@j-mshistorycorner6932]

Except that they did work well.

[@nikopteros1659]

Rise of skywalker: Rei throws lightsaber into fire, luke catches it and sais: Luke: a jedi's weapon deserves some respect Me: ummm 6:58

[@CantusTropus]

That's because that line was JJ Abrams deliberately calling out Johnson's writing.

[@nikopteros1659]

@@CantusTropus huh i didn't know that, well thats cool in the behind the scenes perspective but its still kinda funny in the movie xD

[@whoa4440]

"...1 guy building a sweet sand castle and the other one hates the sand " is where I thought it was going

[@pokeman5699]

"Rey's character was brilliant..." I've finally come to the conclusion that this video is just an elaborate prank Just like these sequel movies

[@Maxyshadow]

Yeppers. :)

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Wonderful, taking one part of a sentence out of context.

[@choreomaniac]

“There was a lot of good here. Daisy Ridley’s Rey was brilliant as usual as was Kylo Ren”. There’s your context. It is still wrong. Rey is boring, arc-less and, yes, a Mary Sue Kathleen Kennedy fan-fic insert put in for ideological, rather than dramatic, purposes.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@choreomaniac No, that still misses the context. I don't even like Rey but seriously.

[@choreomaniac]

Another random Tristan then enlighten us. What is the context? It seems clear that he didn’t think Rey was part of the problem in the movie. Rian destroyed most of JJs creations: Snoke, Kylo’s helmet, Rey’s parentage, Luke’s lightsaber, Hux as a viable villain, Finnand Po as major characters, etc. but he left Rey alone. Filmento is decidedly not criticizing Ridley or Rey. What part of the “context” indicates anything other than the literal statement that Ridleys Rey was and is brilliant?

[@akanji8285]

That edit of kylos chest and then snokes reaction was gold... I lol’d in real life

[@shimsham8887]

That scene already makes me laugh in general lol. He sounds so sad, and it's magnified by how muffled he is 🤣🤣

[@shimsham8887]

10:27

[@notusingmyname4791]

8:20 I hated both movies... there's no place for me.

[@DM-hq9gs]

same here, why, TFA was a copy of EP4, TLJ is bad cause it throws logic out the window

[@MrRjhyt]

Prequel lover!!! >_

[@joseoctavioveracervantes2221]

same here

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@MrRjhyt Piss off.

[@chyldprodigy]

One thing I don't see mentioned often is the extra crushing expectations if you read the expanded universe. Like of course Luke was never going to be what he was in EU Star Wars (a guy who can close black holes or weild multiple lightsabers with the force). But to have SUCH a fall of a man who the entire movie was built around finding was not just subverting expectations, it would be like if you went to a Superman movie, but instead Superman was just a cranky old dude who eventually decides to dust off just his freeze breath to help slow down Doomsday so some humans can escape, and then he dies. For those who have never read a comic or didn't care about him that is a neat and interesting new direction! For those who grew up idolizing him, it is disappointing and devastating.

[@GlassicGamer]

Apparently they did not count the people who put 1 or half a star in the percentage so it should be 28% for viewers on Rotten Tomatoes.

[@Dancestar1981]

Glassic Gamer should be less than 20 percent

[@johnwatsoniv384]

And notice 1) how big of a decline it saw in the box office vs force awakens (crappy, deriviative fan service can at least fool people and is much better than actively seeking to destroy the foundations of the IP for no reason other than to attack fans), 2) the resulting backlash making Soylo a complete failure and possibly causing Disney to already fire that bitch Kathleen Kennedy, and 3) the way that marvel movie sequels for individual heroes, by contrast, tend to build upon the financial success of their predecessors. The hype, excitement, and anticipation leading up to last jedi was enough that a movie on par with force awakens (definitely a low bar) and building on what it had set up would've made double what last jedi made.

[@daduronronron3955]

Not apparently, that's EXACTLY what happened. Lefties circling the wagon train around their own. Fortunately everybody is too sick of the Left bullying everyone else around in order to get their way to just stand by and let it happen any more.

[@StayPuftMarshmellow]

True !

[@m3m3nt0m0r1_]

ROSE STOPPED FINN FROM DOING HIS BIG HERO MOMENT SACRIFICEING HIMSELF TO SAVE EVERYONE. A N D T H E N S H E K I S S E D H I M! OUT OF NOWHERE!

[@ThomasK96]

Why does everyone say The Last Jedi was original Take? That movie is The Empire Strikes Back with a little of Return of the Jedi it's not original. The main plot of Empire Strikes Back is running away from the empire while Luke trains and another planet. The main plot of Last Jedi the resistance running away from the first order while Ray trains on another planet A battle on a white planet in a trench with the the enemy of attacking both movies And the scenes with sonke felt lot like the scenes with Palpatine in Return of the Jedi.

[@footclann0043]

That's honestly one of my biggest problems with the sequel trilogy. Not alot of originality.

[@BakaHoushi]

When the similarities are on a vague outline with no real details, that's not a problem. Two movies having an overall similar plot is not a problem.

[@3458-s3q]

@@BakaHoushi in a universe, it is, it makes it unrealistic and stupid. We had 2 world wars. And many countries tried to win they same way in ww1, but it turned out different in every way, proving history doesn't just repeats

[@jamesfontana3135]

.....Annnnnd thats about as far as the similarities go.

[@ThomasK96]

@@jamesfontana3135 both Jurassic World movies have less similarities to the previous movies and everyone calls rehash this has more similarities and no one calls it a rehash.

[@levikarkiainen331]

What if you hated both?

[@somethinglikethat2176]

I'll give you a high five because I couldn't agree more.

[@N12015]

I don't like episode 7, but i genuinely despise episode 8 and consider it the worst by far of the franchise.

[@levikarkiainen331]

@@N12015 shot in the balls and then having your scrotum removed with a rusty razor blade is slightly worse than just getting shot in the balls or just having your scrotum removed with a rusty razor blade. I would rather not have either

[@dragonskunkstudio7582]

The Last Jedi was a fever dream for Ray, wakes up in Luke's shack. RESET BUTTON!

[@ChrisOvens51]

Is that really what you want to happen?

[@dragonskunkstudio7582]

I wish less bitching in my life, the more I hear bitching about it the more I want nothing to do with Star Wars.

[@Palikkalintu]

AND THEN LUKE EATS HIS LIGHT SABER

[@shamuslamont100]

you need to remove yourself from all the people bitching about this movie. They are just toxic. Lucas WAS a corporation as well, people are kidding themselves only hating on Disney.

[@Mattman003]

That would be gutsy AF! But it would be hilarious, especially if fans love the redo.

[@felipequirino5119]

when kylo ren kills his fatherHan solo, spoiler alert that's...not How spoilers alert work

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

I still dont know why anyone thought han dying was shocking. It was the most telegraphed moment in cinema. So much that I laughed out loud in the theater when everyone gasped.

[@doorknocker8920]

2015-2017 RIP fin It was possible

[@redknight4805]

I hated both TFA and TLJ. But TLJ is definitely worse. The fact that up to that point I thought TFA is the worst high budget movie I have ever seen makes the failure of TLJ quite spectacular.

[@latemammoth]

Red Knight How many movies have you seen?

[@redknight4805]

Betacle TV Is there a a point to your question?

[@LukeGibsonSS]

That there are so many objectively much worse high budget films than TFA that you can't have seen many.

[@latemammoth]

Yeah, pretty much. We must've seen different movies, because there's no way The Last Jedi can be the worst thing you've ever seen. Stop being a sheep, and actually watch the movie and make an opinion for yourself for Pete's sake.

[@LukeGibsonSS]

Oh no man, TLJ was cringey AF lol, I laughed a lot, it was funny, but the story was so bad. I mean superman Leia was so cringe. I swear there were 3 good things about that film, the humour, the badass fight scene after Snoke dies, and Porgs, everything else was just a mess, so many plot holes it could put swiss cheese to shame and a story that made no fucking sense.

[@skippingstep1515]

A little off topic, but the guidebooks like "The Jedi Path" "The Book of Sith" and "The Bounty Hunter Code" are absolute candy for anyone into Star Wars EU lore.

[@dragonchr15]

My issue with the Force Awakens was how they handled Han's death....I remember seeing Lord of the Rings in theaters and watching Gandalf fall off the bridge and then the melodramatic music as they exit the mines and the hobbits all fall to their knees and start weeping....very powerful for someone who may not have read the books because they had setup Gandalf as a likable character in just ONE MOVIE. Han had three movies where he was setup and I felt NOTHING when he died.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

Not seeing what's wrong with his death, he died a good death. What else could you have expected from him? What?! IF you felt nothing, it might have been a you thing. not expecting you to weep or anything but at least felt something. Again, not seeing how han died a bad death at all.

[@Swordsman99k]

@@Gadget-Walkmen Characters barely reacting, the story barely changing, and the character's best friend not even getting time to mourn or be comforted by others. Awful writing, and an awful way to do it.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@Swordsman99k LMAO What? The hell are you even talking about? The characters DID react to Han’s death and the Story DID change overall, the hell are you mumbling about here as your not making any sense here at all. The character’s best friend, if you mean Luke, not talking about Han’s death was a mistake that should have been shown in Last Jedi, but that was on the last Jedi, NOT on force awakens. And Leia and Rey DID comfort one another over Han’s death as a whole so your not making any sense acting as if nobody didn’t address that at all. It wasn’t “aWfUl wRiTiNg” at all NOR a “aWfUl wAY tO dO iT” either, you Star Wars fans always whining and moaning over absolutely nothing. It was an overall fine way to end off Han’s character, it could have been done better, sure but that was perfectly fine to do it as we’ve seen it. Jesus Christ, get over yourself as there was barely any issue there at all at that moment me plot point. Whining like this over nothing like a child.

[@Miseric0rde]

The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force Filed under: Legends As in non-canon. Anything in that book doesn't exist in the current Star Wars universe and should have been properly set up.

[@idfkwhatyouwantfromme]

And besides, why the fuck should the average moviegoer and/or SW fan have to do their homework? Reading supplementary material should never be REQUIRED.

[@Habbib]

Because the other force powers were properlly setup in the OT... Jesus, people sometimes...

[@versena]

+hirotocrash MTE. I would like examples of when all force powers were explained before being used in the OT. Since people love banging on about it so much, they must've set them up very carefully in the originals, right? Right?!

[@lawrencegordon7048]

versena Repeat after me, this is the EIGHTH INSTALLMENT in the saga. Repeat again. You don’t have as much freedom in establishing rules as in OT. Even if the continuity is not a problem for you, you don’t get to say people that think continuity is broken are wrong.

[@kevincrady2831]

The problem for me isn't that the new Force powers (or unexpected uses of old Force powers like Leia pulling herself back to the ship) aren't "set up," it's that they're used in a way that serves no purpose other than Lucy yanking the football away. "OK, so here's Leia's death, could be tragic or heroic--YOINK! No, actually, she survives. But her ability to use the Force like this never factors into the story before or after, and now they'll have to kill her in the Opening Crawl if they don't wanna use a CGI revenant in the next movie." "Luke shows up for a touching reunion with Leia and an epic showdown with Kylo! PSYCH! Not really, he's just projecting himself as a hologram. Too bad he never used this to be the perfect spy for the Resistance, but it's a pretty awesome ability so now he can use it in the fut--oh, nope, YOINK!, he just dies and blows away in the wind because somethingsomething Force-overdose." "Rey is The! Most! Powerful! Force User! Ever! And she's drawn to and connected to Anakin's old lightsaber somehow, so she's gotta have a deep connection to the wider narrative, right? Nope--she's just a random orphan, like Broom Boy at the end; everything's just random and disconnected now." There's a lot of this in the new trilogy, not just Force powers. Snoke--emerges from nowhere, goes to nowhere. Hyperspace ramming--suddenly a thing, but I won't be a bit surprised if nobody ever thinks to use it again, weaponize it (hyperspace torpedoes) or defend against it (Interdictor Cruiser escorts for capital ships). The First Order, with resources, ships, etc. that dwarf the Empire--just appears out of nowhere and now they're all blown up (but don't be surprised if there's an EVEN BIGGER Even Bigger Death Star in Episode IX). The New Republic created at the end of Return of the Jedi--just gone, never amounted to anything anyway. The Canto Bight supblot--takes up a significant portion of the entire movie, but could have hit the cutting-room floor without leaving a noticeable hole in the main story. It comes down to a complete lack of narrative continuity. It's so pervasive that this trilogy isn't so much a new story, as a flashy Dubstep remix of the Original Trilogy: "Let's have the Hive of Scum and Villainy be all posh and rich instead of a dive like Mos Eisley! So clever and innovative!" "I know--let's do the Battle of Hoth in reverse, where the transports go TO the white planet--salt, not snow, so it's totally new and unexpected--to face the giant walkers instead of escaping!" "Let's do the Palpatine throne-room scene, except the climactic battle is against the guards instead of the Emperor!")

[@CheeseOfMasters]

Well you say Daisy Ridley's Rey was awesome, but I have a feeling not much people think that way because of her obvious, unrealistic progress in her powers. Call me a hater, but as long as her character exists I will boykott this new Star Wars because in my eyes it just shows how worthless everything in this new universe is. Also the script of the last two movies were pretty bad, to the point that with the third Death Star and all the holes in TLJ I was seriously thinking that these filmmakers are joking with us or trying to shove the least effort into the story.

[@cognitive8881]

Well, if we're taking the actress's performance, then she did a great job with what was given to her. If we're talking about Rey as a character, then you can think whatever you want.

[@thefruityking6722]

Cognitive Ultimately, the acting doesn't matter one bit. Rey is a shit character. Nothing more is needed to be said.

[@majorastorm]

She hasn't had any chance for Growth in her character after the Force Awakens

[@TenguBE]

Rey is not interesting, she doesn't need to learn anything, she seems awesome as she is. After she "beat" Luke I was done.

[@nasirthesenatejohnson6935]

Zorastorm 32 But she had time to get more powerful

[@keks1krvmel]

jar jar and palpatine are rey's parents? i knew it!

[@pyromite38]

There are leaks that say Palpatine is MaRey's grandfather...

[@Kylesb]

Lena Pa Dude, I can’t! 😂😂

[@Momoko2288]

Tfw palpatine is rey's grandaddy

[@lucas-bk5zj]

i think you are right

[@AutoRoboto05]

>TFW Filmento is a prophet.

[@Takeshi357]

Star Wars episode VIII: Luke's Character Assassination

[@lenin17301560]

26:30 Funnily enough, I actually agree with this statement. Episode III is the best Star Wars movie.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

yep! love that movie!

[@sarmientoenricomiguelv.562]

Me too!

[@Unf0rget]

A lot of my beef is that the movie just didn't do the work it needed to justify and let the events link together naturally. Part of that is because the two movies, 7 and 8, were not made to work together, and partly because 8 just wanted to get great shots. Change some details, do some damn work, and you could have the same overall settings, themes, and character failings and a much better movie that doesn't split the entire fan base so heavily.

[@Unf0rget]

Frankly, johnson should have waited for his own trilogy to do something so different. When the set up of a trilogy doesnt support the middle shit falls apart.

[@brufnus]

Indeed. It's as if they make these movies just to show a lot of special effects; they do forget what matters the most in every single movie, though: a GOOD STORY.

[@nathanjora7627]

I don't understand people who liked ep VII and thus disliked ep VIII, or loved ep VIII because they hated ep VII. I hate both :D

[@LeonardBillsMcGoatPryor]

Good to see someone breaking away from the norm.

[@kosmas173]

Ep VII had some potential to be the first film of an OK Star Wars trilogy but its problem is that its plot was depended on ep VIII in order to be good.

[@SilentSandwhich24145]

Nathan Jora, you are a man after my own heart...episode VII was unnecessary and I struggle to see why anyone liked VIII at all.

[@hammerhiem75]

Neither are good films, VII is A New Hope 2.0 it's basically a shot for shot remake with less compelling characters but it least it had a heroes journey and a payoff. VIII is objectively one of the worst written, paced and directed films I've ever seen And I've seen Dungeon and Dragons the movie. MauLer's Three part breakdown says everything that needs saying about this abomination.

[@emperorfaiz]

Yet I don't understand people who dislike both and expect everyone to share the same opinion without question. Ep 8 is huge waste btw.

[@hazardous8301]

This video just further strengthened my belief that people who liked the sequels, just don’t understand Star Wars. You tried to look at this movie from a objective standpoint with little knowledge of the universe, and try to understand why it was so hated. But almost nothing you mentioned, is the actual reason most people hated this movie. You can’t look a a major blockbuster that’s apart of a several decades long running franchise, and then judge it on its own. People hated the new depiction of Luke. NOT because it was a darker more pessimistic version of Luke. But because non of his character worked, with who luke actually was. It wasn’t just a different version, it was a entirely different character all together, who was simply given the name of one of the most iconic heroins in media history. But let’s just review a few things of what I mean by this. The original Luke Skywalker was a hero who gave up everything to save his friends, and refused to kill his father, who he barely knew. Just because he sensed some good in him. His father, who was responsible for committing multiple acts of mass genocide, and was almost single handedly responsible for the near eradication of the Jedi order. But like still held the firm belief that he could be saved. Redeemed. This belief being so strong that he refused to kill him, even when his own life was on the line. In the last Jedi it is revealed that Kylo turned to the darkside after Luke, his uncle, who likely helped raise him, tried to kill him in his sleep, after he had a nightmare. Real Luke refused to kill a genocidal murderous madman responsible for killing his father figure, and for giving the order to kill his adoptive parents. All because he sense SOME good in him. Last jedi Luke tried to kill his own nephew who he was with since very young childhood and likely helped to raise, because he sense SOME bad in him, and the Last Jedi expects us to believe to two are the same person? Not to mention the fact that he abandons his friends and family when the galaxy needs him most SOLEY BECAUSE he feels guilty. Then there’s the whole hyperspace ram BS which creates mad plot holes in the franchise. Plus the whole issue with the space chase thing you already brought up. Episode 7 received some hate because Rey beat a highly trained Skywalker with literally no training. Which was stupid as shit. But mostly because it was a direct copy of a new hope, but with different characters, and one or two extra side plots. But other then that, it was pretty well received. Every movie after that constantly shit on established Star Wars lore, and characters. While creating a absurd amount of plot holes across the entire franchise. The sequels very existence weakens the over arching story of the franchise as a whole, and that’s why they’re hated. Not because of some objective writing flaw with any one movie. To understand why they are hated, you have to understand Star Wars lore. Granted I don’t think last Jedi was a good movie regardless, for all of the reasons you mentioned, plus some extra. But those aren’t the reasons I hate it. I don’t think the prequels are good movies. But I don’t hate them, because they are bad objectively, but that don’t hurt the lore with the story they tell. They’re just poorly written from a directing stand point. Stuff such a dialog, acting, and poor screen play are what make them bad. Not the over arching story.

[@golden1_1dragon12]

Dave filoni added his own character:rex, ahsoka. He made it worked. Now they are the most loved

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Dave Filoni is a good writer.

[@mezlabor]

How I wish he was in charge of the new trilogy.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@KaiserMattTygore927 Now more than ever!

[@Vztahovacna]

I refuse to accept the notion that a moment was "set up" or "explained" because some SW book or somethng. First, Johnson doesn't get to pull that card since the EU was thrown out, and b) the movies are supposed to be self-contained, at the very least when it comes to narrative mediums. Personally, my biggest problem with the Last Jedi was the non-existent motivation of Kylo Ren. If I'm supposed to sympathize with a space Nazi, the least the movie could do is explain what about goose-stepping is so appealing to him. The Last Jedi doesn't tell you, but some shit book nobody has ever heard of apparently does, so I guess it means everything was explained, right? Well no, it doesn't work like that, movie. That's nothing but a shyster's attempt to excuse lazy storytelling and the jumbled mess of incoherent gibberish it inevitably created.

[@Habbib]

Vztahovacna None of the Force powers have ever been set up

[@SuperTrainStationH]

If the EU is now thrown out how can Thrawn be in Rebels? Im just pointing this out.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

gguru1 they're just picking and choosing bits and pieces from the old now non canon EU to add to their new canon. They put a pale imitation of Thrawn in Rebels but that doesn't mean the old EU is canon again.

[@SuperTrainStationH]

Bjørn Halfhand I honestly dont care, i was just pointing out that the EU is fair game for them to pick from for the new canon as they please. I dont mind the introduction of new force powers, but in this case it was done at the expense of denying us a proper final duel for Luke.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

gguru1 yeah they really shit on Luke. Sad really. So little left to explore in episode 9. Especially if you're not interested in the whole Reylo thing.

[@eddiebanks3583]

For what it’s worth I thought some of the Jedi aspects of the film were some of the deepest parts of the franchise, bringing in Kreias philosophy etc. but it’s like the director said “no you want to see space’s slowest high speed chase”

[@Charolette21]

I'm honestly concerned about Abrams finishing the trilogy because he is notorious for not finishing stories he started with no answer to work with for any future writer. The only thing he completed from start to finish was the show Felicity, where the show ended up where it started (setting and character goal wise) but with the characters a bit wiser and that's it. Nothing will chage with the established world as a whole.

[@elcidS15]

J'acob Albers Im pretty sure his Star Trek movie had a complete story.

[@Charolette21]

elcidS15 not through Abrams

[@elcidS15]

J'acob Albers I guess I don’t understand wtf you’re talking about then. What do you mean “not through Abrams?”

[@Charolette21]

elcidS15 with both of the first two reboot films (which were helmed by Abrams), they both had the same character development arcs for Kirk when it came to his maturity. He’s a cocky guy who says ‘caution to the wind’ and is likely to get his crew killed before helping anyone to properly mature by its end.

[@elcidS15]

J'acob Albers In the first one, Kirk isn’t in command and saves everyone simply because the circumstance matched that of his father’s death. So at no point in the first one does he make cocky decisions as a captain that are mistakes. The second movie was about him wanting revenge for the death of his mentor. This leads him to make a mistake, but then sacrifices himself at the end. Those movies were very different, as were Kirk’s motivations. Also, I thought we were talking about stories with a beginning and an end with no unanswered questions. I would say those two movies fit that.

[@carlasouza5306]

The problem is that lucas films needed a overall plan.... to change director and give full control shows that they had no plan at all If marvel had done that, infinity wars would never had happened

[@icybelua]

To be honest, I didn't even know anyone liked the Disney star wars movies. I legitimately have over an hour rant about how terrible 7 or 8 are and I never saw 9. This video actually surprised me, I had no idea 7 had positive reviews 😂

[@Dumbstuffwatcher]

I was willing to forgive the issues I had with ep7, although in hindsight, Han's death should have been a much bigger red flag. I tried to like ep8 but it felt like its own movie, not a follow-up to ep7. You made the right call not seeing ep9, I was angry for most of the runtime and got even moreso on the way back from the theater when we were all picking it apart

[@PaulusAlone]

How can JJ Abrams finish what Rian started when Rian Johnson already finished everything and everyone off in The Last Jedi? What exactly did he start? Apart from a civil war in the fanbase that is... And now all that's left is Reylo and although the more hardcore fangirls think that's a film in itself, I find myself underwhelmed at the prospect of Twilight in Space for 2 hours or more! Episode 9 literally has nothing much to look forward to if you're not shipping Reylo. As a fan since 1977 this is the first film I'm not looking forward to. Much like Han Solo: A Star Wars Story which I will be boycotting but wasn't after seeing anyways...even though I did quite like Rogue One. Disney want to shed us older fans and our families I guess? But it's a shame those 'woke millennials' they are chasing after as their new target demographic don't actually have much money and certainly won't spend what they have on something as tacky and uncool as Star Wars merchandise like us older "fanboys" do, eh? Disney needs to learn how to satisfy the customer like George Lucas did! Because if you want to be subversive and shake things up by "making an independent/art house movie with lightsabers" then the film producer is right. But if you want to actually make money from your film then the customer IS always right! And keep calling your customers a bunch of racist misogynist bigots and saying we are scared of strong women because we don't like The Last Jedi is an almost suicidal business model to follow in my humble opinion. ^^

[@PaulusAlone]

Gareth D - I've actually started to suspect something similar myself about the 'social engineering' because for the life of me, their business and artistic choices make no sense from a purely capitalist perspective?

[@richardnguyen1520]

Rogue one was enjoyable (in its final act at least, the earlier part was a drag), because it attempted to fit into the existing lore. It did not feel like a deconstruction or outright disrespect of what came before.

[@PaulusAlone]

Richard Nguyen - Yup! Like I said, I quite like Rogue One myself. As you say, it fits in with the existing lore and expanded on it rather than attempting a Rian Johnson style subversion or deconstruction. ^^

[@fillei]

I fucking hate what Rian did to Reylo, he transformed Reylo from an interesting charakter to a whiney little baby.

[@WedgeOfSpite]

Newsflash --people who actually care about racism, and misogyny rightly don't like the film, because it's racist and sexist. Only neckbeards or white feminist types (like KK) think otherwise.

[@Luey_Luey]

"she'd be the kind who never tells you she's pregnant until the baby's already graduating from college" spat my drink out holy shit

[@hasvik95]

The Last Jedi was a disaster how Disney did not step in to make sure the movie at least followed the story from The force awakens is beyond me

[@caitlinbrewer4843]

Honestly? It's because while people love to blame Disney for ruining Star Wars, Disney proper actually for the most part leaves their divisions (Marvel, Pixer, Lucas Films, etc) alone and allows them to self-govern on the condition that they continue to make money. The reason Kevin feige can do pretty much whatever he wants with Marvel is that it continues to generate extreme profit and is both critically and commercially successful, same with Pixar. At the time the Last Jedi was being made Disney proper didn't really have a reason to worry, the force awakens and Rogue one we're both critically and financially successful. But after the Last Jedi caused a lot of issues, Solo flopped, and Kennedy started to be more of a hindrance to Disney than an asset, it has caused Disney proper to start being more involved with the division. If Kennedy does not Shape Up and if episode 8 is not good enough and does it reach the proper standards, I guarantee you there will be a lot of changes. There are already a lot of rumors that Bob Iger wants Kennedy out but can't find anyone to take the job. I don't think she'll last too much longer anyway, you don't get far by making enemies of both fans and your superiors.

[@JayBelafonte]

Caitlin Brewer I definitely feel that there is a change coming. The last two films (8/Solo) have basically "flopped" in comparison to the others, and I've seen a major decline in Merchandising. Merchandising has always been Star Wars bread and butter.

[@dannyhuskerjay]

bob iger is getting more involved it sounds like.

[@TomatusYT]

The reason it did so bad is because Disney defiled everything the old franchise built up. There were plot holes and alot of things didn't correlate with the original 6 movies.

[@mttkra]

Seven movies. TLJ goofed TFA as much as it goofed the other films.

[@Halskitchen]

I still think that Kylo Ren was lying when he told Rey that her parents were nobodies. I mean, come on, dark siders and sith lie all the time! Its one of their primary philosophies to gaining power.

[@KrazyKelor]

But she’s the one who said they were nobodies.

[@thealt8038]

generally the bad guys do not lie in star wars. look at dooku and vader. dooku basically told obi wan that palpatine was the sith lord and vader told luke that he was his father. the fact that he was lying now that TROS has come out makes me hate TROS more since it basically undid TLJ like it undid TFA

[@omnichron3374]

Why does the purple haired 'Admiral' not wear a uniform? As a military man that really bothers me.

[@brufnus]

I agree. But then again, a lot of them don't - Han (general) Solo, Leia, etc. It's kind of annoying to me, too... always was.

[@Ryusuta]

Good to see a fellow prinny talking sense, dood!

[@hyu8826]

Han was promoted on the field and wears his old uniform until legends, think a hussian Merc that is promoted at valley forge. Leia is not military, but is a politician in the Senate, but holdo should dress like ackbar

[@rubberwoody]

isn't it because theyre a "resistance" or something?

[@joshelderkin9592]

Antonio Howard because uniforms are fucking lame

[@tonyth9240]

24:47 Jar Jar Binks? Okay, probably a relative of Rey. But Palpatine? Nah, he does not have anything in common with her, right? Good joke however.

[@jmc22475]

Here's the thing about "the Jedi path" Disney made it non canon.

[@johnanderson211]

the general consensus seems to be Johnson stuck his thumb in the eyes of people who payed attention to the force awakens on pourpose by ignoring everything that happened

[@JP-sp9bm]

And now they are paying the price by purposefully ignoring the fans and insulting them over social media.

[@peterg6715]

TLJ plot was inconsistent with TFA which is a major fail. Luke skywalker character is inconsistent with the original trilogy which is another major fail. The humor is weird and inappropriate. Like the phone gag in the beginning and luke tossing the lightsaber. There's no character progression. With Finn especially whose role is pointless in the movie. The whole movie was a ridiculous fail given the franchise, the budget and how easy it actually should be to make a star wars movie. Star wars movies should be a slam dunk. It's not that complicated a story.

[@irusjarlaup3032]

i think thats the point , we are used to a uncomplicated story , we know the basic heroes journey and the fall of the hero , this movie set out for something different and hey you like it or you dont but i wont shit on Johnson for doing something different and interesting

[@jreddoch1]

By your logic, Luke is inconsistent in the original trilogy bc he is very different between a New Hope and Return of the Jedi. . .

[@peterg6715]

I'm not shitting on doing your own thing but it's inappropriate when you're doing the 8th movie in a saga to do your own thing. It's not even consistent with the previous movie. That throwing the light saber for one was weird. It so contradicts the tone of the scene at the end of TFA. The whole plot of TFA which I thought was stupid was that luke left a way to find him if they really needed him and now someone finds him and he just tosses the lightsaber and acts like a grumpy asshole the whole movie. His best friend is dead and his sister is in grave danger and he doesn't give a shit. Hows that make sense with any kind of basic human behavior let alone Lukes established pattern of behavior? And lastly we are talking about the most successful franchise in film history. Is doing your own thing and going in a new and contradictory direction a smart thing to do or just a sign of blind arrogance?

[@KingofEuropa07]

@Jonathan Reddoch ANH -> ROTJ Luke progressing ROTJ->TLJ Luke regressing, doing the very opposite of what he did in ROTJ big difference Also, different is not the same as inconsistent

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

+Irus Jarlaup Stop, that's not why this was shit, its not "complicated" its "inconsistent" "bad writing" "uninteresting" Rey and Snoke being nobodies is the opposite of complicated, its totally simple, lazy and uninteresting, they just show up, and one of them dies with no real impact. Characters don't act at all like they did in previous films, their suddenly different without any PROGRESSION Being a bad writer is "different" in the way that eating dogshit on fine china is "different"

[@Stef2245s]

The disgusting thing is that they managed to make a better movie 40 years ago just with worse VFX. And let's don't talk about the clone wars, the best thing in existence

[@thelastjerk-i4295]

DUDE, I'm A Luke Skywalker fan so I now Hate both & am not going to see IX.

[@lighthousefilms5530]

I think the Last Jedi made me realize I just wasn't as big of a Star Wars fan as I thought I was. I loved the original films and grew up with the prequels, but that's where it ends for me. I've moved on, and that's OK. I'll always have the old movies to cherish and share with my children so that maybe they could enjoy it as much as I did.

[@invidatauro8922]

I'd argue that makes you a better fan than many of the people who liked the film.

[@flakes1972]

To be honest, I thought the Force Awakens was complete 'Meh'. The Last Jedi however... Was waaaay under the bar.

[@flakes1972]

The series is meant to be a space opera... Not some generic sci-fi, bouncy, pandering adventure flick. Hence why I think Rogue One is the only 'New Era' star wars film that's come along and been worthy of carrying the Star Wars name. 1 - The reason people were upset that Rey's parents were nobodies was because they were expecting an explination of Rey's unfounded, ridiculous power to come in the form of her lineage. Which doesn't work now - Effectively solidifying her as a Mary Sue. 2 - The issue with Snoke and Luke is that you've had your expectations built, only for them to amount to nothing. Basically ending up as if you've wasted all this time for no pay-off. You get Luke back with a personal struggle with Kylo? Well... He says some mumbo-jumbo that Kylo already knows, then dies meaninglessly. You've had Snoke built up an omnipotent, powerful force-user that's capable of establishing a link across the galaxy and is entirely evil? Well... No fight, he goes out as part of a joke. "Oh, he wouldn't betray m- OH HE BETRAYED ME."

[@irllcd13]

I didn't hate TFA. It was actually a lot better than I thought it would be. But it wasn't "good." In fact, I liked Rogue One more than TFA. I went into TLJ totally neutral. I had no expectations at all one way or the other. And I was still disappointed.

[@rodeodex4250]

My take away from this is that the next time you buy a multi-billion dollar franchise with 40 plus years of cannon and millions of fans, you don’t put it in the hands of directors that are more interested in making a name for themselves on the back of that franchise rather than making a good Star Wars movie. TFA also dividend the fan base but it was overlooked due to the box office hype. It was not a particularly good movie that had a lot of plot holes and more that it’s fair share of nonsensical scenes, again given that it played on the 40 years of cannon as well as the nostalgia to rope fans in, and did not deliver. Most Star Wars fans wanted to see a new fresh trilogy set in this enormous universe, or see the progression of their beloved characters since ROTJ. Both of these films failed miserably on these issues. TFA lazily regressed the franchise back to “rebbes vs empire”, and TLJ’s only purpose seems to have been to literally burn down every Star Wars film that came before it. I think that Disney and Lucasfilm need to rethinking their approach on the direction of the franchise. Owning the Starwars license only gives you the right to print money if you give the “fans” what they want. Controversy is divisive, and dividing your fan base makes no economic sense. Sadly I think the damage is done for this trilogy, hopefully they can learn from this.

[@georgebarrett2132]

Good word Rodeo:>.. Damn, Avatar grossed near $3bil, what, near a decade ago now?.. And adjust for inflation?.. Only, if we step back and look globally StarWars fanbase would exceed well over a billion at the very least.. Most probably even enough over 2.. just to place their F***UP into a more accurate perspective

[@davydovua]

"The more you like one, the more you hate the other" about episodes VII and VIII is wrong though. Hated them both from the bottom of my heart.

[@vishallan]

agreed....however as Filmento has said in the vid...he never really cared about the Star Wars lore...so I believe understand how bad both movies are bad...both these directors were chosen as part of an agenda....

[@mrrandrade]

They are both complete trash. But last Jedi is some next level trash, there is no comparison. If I hated force awaken with a 10 out of 10, last Jedi is at least a over 9000 out of 10.

[@andrewgilbertson5672]

I think, in all honesty, Star Wars tapped a broad base of feelings and viewpoints. It was vague enough you could read into it what you wanted to, and see it reflected back in the ethos and themes of the film. it was, for lack of a better term, universal. The Last Jedi drew a line in the sand and said 'The Force is this, not this. luke Skywalker's character is this, not this. True heroism is this, not this. The spirit of Star Wars is *this*, not this.' Instead of touching a broad range of aspects, it narrowed things down to just one aspect. Now, for the people that already saw that aspect in Star Wars and were still seeing it reflected back, this was nirvana- pre, concentrated Star Wars with the fluff cut out; streamlined down to the very essence of what Star Wars should be (and yet, upsettingly, somehow people that called themselves Star Wars fans were attacking it!). On the other hand, for people that connected to a different aspect of Star Wars and saw it reflected back, that aspect was now gone entirely; there was no reflection. It was a soulless vampire of an entity, completely deprived of *anything* Star Wars, that got everything wrong and misunderstood every bit of what Star Wars got right (and yet, upsettingly, somehow people that called themselves Star Wars fans were praising it!). In short, TLJ narrowed down a very universal viewpoint to a very narrow one- which works for everyone that already had that viewpoint, and completely flies in the face of fans with any other viewpoint... which is why it is the epitome of awesome to some, and a complete insult to others.

[@peteranon8455]

You, sir, are simply incorrect. Star Wars had a fairly detailed description of The Force, detailed out in over 300 books. This movie disregarded already established canon and created their own.

[@jtroopa]

By the end of the movie, I realized that I don’t really have an interest in what happens next. All the characters’ arcs have been either wrapped up or cut short. The resistance is decimated, Finn, Rose, Poe, and Leia’s characters have been more or less concluded, the big bad is dead, their fleet is in disarray, and all that’s left are two characters- Rey and Kylo- who are completely uncertain as to what to do next. That seems like an end-state to me, story-wise. There’s almost nothing to hook on to for the next movie.

[@ColdNorth0628]

4:57 it does not matter whether it already existed A MAJORITY OF THE CASUAL FANS DO NOT KNOW.

[@9-bitfox]

Did the fans know Palpatine had Lightning powers before episode 6? (When the first 3 movies first showed up in theaters? )

[@reboot7507]

Ryan Johnson : Take this JJ. JJ : Oh yeah, here take this.... Rise of Skywalker.

[@ThatBunniBoi]

But I don't like Rian or JJ! There's nothing reassuring about JJ returning. Force awakens wasn't terrible but It still didn't set up any interesting character arcs outside of Finn. A former stormtrooper and first order defector, Finn was the character I found the most interesting. A character arc from storm trooper to Jedi would be incredible. Sadly he's a former janitor, stereotypical black character, and primarily for comic relief.

[@ragalyiakos]

I would argue that the character of Snoke is very overstated by many people, you being one of them. Snoke is NOT the main villain of this trilogy. The main villain is Kylo. Like you said, Kylo does not know who he is, and would need someone who gives him direction. With Snoke gone, he does not have that. And since we've seen what Kylo does when he's left to so stuff on his own...Thats exactly what makes him absolutely terrifying.

[@eliaspeter7689]

But kylo is the only character that interests me, I don't care for the rest. So he won't be a fearsome guy to me.

[@KaNoMikoProductions]

Kylo is the main villain the same way that Vader was the main villain. That doesn't mean Snokes, like Palpatine, wasn't important. In fact, it is WORSE that we know so little about Snokes compared to Palpatine, because this isn't a brand new story with a brand new world anymore. We have a priori knowledge of the history of the universe, in the form of the original trilogy, and Snokes CAN'T just "pop up," take power, and then die like that with no answers.

[@ghirahimlefabuleux8984]

@@KaNoMikoProductions We actually know that Snoke comes from somewhere in the unknown region and took advantage of the power vaccum that happened near the first years of the First Order to take power. The problem is that it is not in the movies and it is absurdly vague for someone so powerful with the force. Heck Palpatine even sensed his existence in one of the book during the Empire era. I mean what the hell was he doing there and why did the First Order even trust this guy. It could have been answered but no he had to be killed off before they did and now his backstory will most likely only be found in external material.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

Palpatine wasn't the main villain of the OT either. Vader was. It would still have been a mistake to kill off Palpatine in Empire. And I don't know how you could be terrified of Kylo. He's lost twice to the same untrained Rey, in both lightsaber dueling and Force abilities. He is no threat at all, especially since Rey will only get stronger. And we also already got to see what he does on his own without Snoke to give him direction. He leads an inefficient attack on a dwindling Resistance force, with all the advantage in the world...and wastes all of his resources, thereby losing, in part because he was so easy to emotionally manipulate by Luke. He didn't become this unstable unpredictable psycho like you're trying to say that he did. He became this utterly inefficient leader and totally easy to manipulate enemy. And he still has not won a single significant battle. Heck, I think the only battles he won was against Po in the beginning of TFA and the first time he met Rey. He couldn't even win a lightsaber battle against a stormtrooper janitor. Oh, and to top it all off, the army that he commands is utterly incompetent, between Hux who is just a joke, and Phasma, who is somehow even more useless (and also lost against a janitor in combat). How is he any sort of major threat to the protagonists again? While Vader's stormtroopers were also painfully useless, he still had Tarkin, who was pretty intimidating and terrifying, and wasn't treated as a joke, as well as Boba Fett, who at least captured Han. And he himself didn't lose a single battle that he was in until the final movie against a rage-filled Master Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker.

[@kiathaolee5040]

From what I heard, Rian Johnson didnt care for how star wars was before when directing the movie. As a big star wars fan, when I saw the force awakens, I was already confused enough because there were so many things that can be built on from the previous movie (ROTJ), but instead they introduce new characters, and bring back the skywalker lightsaber. Then when this movie came out, if you really noticed how the previous 6 movies were written, this 8th movie just straight up wrecks all of them. The most critical thing is that so many new characters when introduced, with ample time given to properly introduce them, still made it felt so disconnected, with just like rey and kylo being the main ppl, while everyone were just there for the sake of being there

[@Wearyman]

The movie is a fail because A: It requires supplemental reading to understand for the average moviegoer. B: It shits on everything done in the previous movie for no damned good reason C: It is a terrible story full of weak characters who make dozens of critically bad and nonsensical decisions for no reason at all other than "because". I was concerned when Lucasfilm sold to Disney, but reasonably hopeful. I was more worried when The Force Awakens came out due to the heavy "Mary-sue-ing" of the main character, and pretty pissed about the pointless murder of Han Solo. I got VERY concerned with the weak storytelling of Rogue One and MORE Mary-Sue characters. Now with The Last Jedi and Ryan Johnson's absolute shit-tier writing, a literal cast of second-rate Mary-Sue characters including a Purple-Haired SJW... Well let me just say this: *hand wave* THERE IS ONLY THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY. THESE ARE NOT THE SEQUELS ANYONE IS LOOKING FOR. NONE OF THIS IS CANON, MOVE ALONG. Star Wars is done. It ended back on Endor.

[@maxmiles5989]

I think you're wrong. But different strokes for different folks I guess.

[@isaytheenay5961]

I agree, its done. I've been a fan for 40 years. I'm not a crazy fanboy - you definitely wouldn't see me driving to the skywalker ranch. But I was there in that theater on the opening night of episode 4. I convinced my parents to take me back the next two nights in a row. I played for 10 thousand hours in sandboxes with AT-AT walkers, and millennium falcons, just like every other kid of those times. But I just don't care anymore. I remember the thrill I had sitting in the theater for episode 1. That rush as it dawned on me that "Star Wars is finally back!". And I felt the same thrill when episode 7 started to play. I'm not a special fan. I'm not entitled to anything, other than the freedom to choose whether or not to buy a ticket. But now I don't care at all. I don't seek out SW news. I'm just not interested. I completely ignored the advertisements for Solo. It's just completely dead to me. Sure, some people disagree. But not enough people disagree to make this franchise worth 4.5 billion dollars, and Solo went a long way towards proving that. Their market was probably 60% of the population. In spite of being absolutely the most profitable and dominant franchise in movie history, they decided instead to cast their fans, their fortunes and their 4.5 billion dollars to the wind and see if they could build their profits instead on the sole backs of jobless pink-haired teenagers with clenched upraised fists. I can't imagine a less intelligent management decision.

[@maxmiles5989]

That's quite a claim to make, and without sufficient evidence, I don't think you have grounds to make that statement.

[@isaytheenay5961]

Which claim?

[@seaneas7054]

Every star wars movie has aspects that isn't explained, And none of the plot needs that extra knowledge It does no such thing, a perfect ending for Luke going into the force to become far more powerful The story is great, with a mediocre 20 minute segment on Canto Bight I would say the biggest problem is that the story wasn't pre planned and it doesn't flow well with episode 7, and it shouldnt have started instantly after.

[@rhysproudmourne1646]

20:30 No other blockbuster filmmaker would do that because it’s a stupid move. You basically ended the story and now have nowhere to go, which is evident with the scrambling of the final movie.

[@juandelval7931]

And then episode 9 just finished the job of spreading the dump

[@John_the_Paul]

The whole plot was driven by how someone forgot that there is no weight in space

[@Altzar2011]

And the momentum of speed in space is never slowed down since there is no gravity or resistance to slow it down in the first place.

[@Thor-Orion]

The swordsmanship was absolutely laughable as well.