The Last of Us: Season 1 - Part 2 | Canadian First Time Watching | TV Reaction | Review | Commentary

[@lars2894]

Fun fact: the game did a really good job of making you believe Joel was dead in that moment, as you get to play as Ellie for the first time after that cutscene.

[@jp3813]

They may want to experience the game for themselves.

[@TacoTuesday555]

@@jp3813 Well good thing they didn’t watch a full ass season of a show that covers basically the entirety of the first game. Eh, they’ll forget right? People these days have an attention span of a dead fish, right?

[@jp3813]

@@TacoTuesday555 Keyword is "game", not "story", genius! It's a real shame though that they already know about Bill dying in the first game.

[@orbislame]

Good to know that Simone might consider cannibalism if needed, but absolutely draws the line at reindeer piss.

[@maxpheby7287]

Lol how did they find out it made them high lol are they going round randomly drinking animal piss on the off chance.

[@Azameanie]

Fly Amanita won’t kill you if you eat it, but it does cause nausea and vomiting as well as tripping.

[@MrYin90210]

@maxpheby7287 Same as the first person who got milk from a cow and wtf were they up to 🙃

[@belfire777]

its quite fair tbh

[@orbislame]

@@maxpheby7287 I think it probably comes down to observation, seeing animals ingesting certain things and observing how it affects them. Then there is some trial and error. Of course the error part probably involves people dying.

[@noteliassmith]

Simone: "He can't die, he's the main character!" Has Game of Thrones taught you nothing

[@adarshsaseendran2199]

"Who gave you the order"!

[@ignisraendl3721]

​@@adarshsaseendran2199🤯🗻

[@nickyarbrough8392]

One of the reasons that it's SO CLEAR that Joel is lying when he's speaking to her at the end is that every other time he's needed to be prompted for info and he's slightly annoyed and terse, stumbling over explanations, etc. This is the first time in the series where he enthusiastically volunteers information and does it with total confidence, and it's completely out of character and she knows it.

[@jhornacek]

The actress has said that when she does that "OK" scene she knows Joel is lying to her and is disappointed in him.

[@LudusAurea]

Well not really . By this time he’s also opened up and talks to her like a human being too.

[@trashcaninc.292]

Joel is "wrong" but you can't FIX fungus, so no there is no cure because you can't cure life.

[@youtubepaidformydivorce]

@@LudusAurea two things can be true at once, padawan. the existence of one does not preclude the possibility of the other

[@jhornacek]

@@LudusAurea At this point Joel is full "dad mode". He loves Ellie and will do anything for her, except tell her the truth.

[@urbanform7714]

You guys really run this channel like professionals while still being creative. Always sticking to the schedule with great editing and the chemistry between you two makes the channel stand apart from the rest. Thank you.

[@corystanish]

Also: Best thumbnails in the business

[@joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo5330]

You’ve quite possibly already learned this since you watched this a year and a half ago, but Ashley Johnson isn’t the only actor from the game who made an appearance in the show. Troy Baker (Joel) portrayed James in the show - David’s right hand buddy boy in cannibal town. Merle Dandridge was Marlene in both game and show. Jeffrey Pierce (Tommy) played Perry in the show - Kathleen’s right hand man in Kansas City

[@ScottLahteine]

Aaaand, Troy Baker hosted the awesome “Last of Us” companion podcast. Don’t miss it, folks!

[@BanyanTree1]

And there's an easter egg -- Laura Bailey plays one of the nurses around the operating table at the end, which she voiced in the original game, which means she joins Merle Dandridge as the second actor to reprise their exact game role.

[@pardox28]

Also Laura Bailey was one of the nurses in the operating room Ellie was in. I'm pretty sure Laura voiced one of those nurses in the game. But she was also Abby in the 2nd game.

[@TukaihaHithlec]

@@BanyanTree1 Shout out to Laura Bailey as Kari the nurse!

[@basils8255]

The couple in the beginning was in Northern exposure, one of the best series of 90s.

[@AnEyeRacky]

Yah it was great. When I saw it live, I audibly gasped at that cameo, as well as Troy Bakers

[@dereknolin5986]

That was such a good show! It deserves more recognition. Both are wonderful actors. Among other things, Graham Greene was amazing in Dances With Wolves.

[@zammmerjammer]

Every time I see Elaine Miles I get so happy. I feel like an unreasonably large amount of my personality is based on Marilyn from "Northern Exposure." 😊

[@ChibiHoshiDragon]

@@dereknolin5986 I generally link Greene to The Green Mile first, then Dances with Wolves, especially to reactors as DwW doesn't gain as many views.

[@ragebash13]

3:43 the fungus is protecting her from other infections just like penicillin does. Fungus produces chemicals that are antibacterial and antiviral.

[@AdeptCharon]

It is indeed "an actual fucking giraffe" xD

[@pardox28]

I'm sure you know this now, but in case anyone doesn't, the voice actors don't JUST do the voice of the video game character, but also the mo-cap for the character.

[@TukaihaHithlec]

In the case of Troy and Ashley as Joel and Ellie, they also made up a ton of their details themselves. Almost all optional dialogue during exploration is improv.

[@kevinadams4390]

if that were the case in this case, LoU would not have been sued by (then) Ellen Page for using their likeness for the character of Ellie. Even though Elliot Page had nothing to do with the games' production. Later updates of the game changed the character model but it was an issue upon the games release. (no offense to any member of the trans community, made reference to older news stories so it is important to use their name in use at the time)

[@pardox28]

@@kevinadams4390 you posted this like it's a correction to my comment. Perhaps you think mo-cap has to do with facial features but it doesn't. It's short for motion capture & they use it to capture the body movements of the character. The facial model of the characters is done by the video game artists at Naughty Dog. Sometimes they use a face model, like they did for Abby in the 2nd game. So while Abby is voiced & mo-capped by Laura Bailey, the face model of Abby is based on a former ND employee named Jocelyn. Sometimes the face is an original creation. Off the top of my head, the early renders of Ellie's face in the 1st game were very close to Elliot Page's face. But that isn't really relevant to what I originally commented about.

[@kevinadams4390]

@@pardox28 you are correct and my statement was flawed. there are three main parts to a character model- physical, voice, and (general ) motion. I was badly making a point for times when 20 characters are played by 8 voice actors and fewer mo-cap persons... while physical character appearance is separate. Example being FF: Spirits Within where there were only 5 mo-cap actors including 1 female, whom had to change shoes to play 3 different female characters. Beowolf was the first i heard of actor, voice, and mo-cap being the same person. I know I gave movie references, but I hope I made the point correctly.

[@itsyeboilewis9791]

@@kevinadams4390 I'm with ya man. Tom Hanks does voice and mo-cap for his characters in Polar Express (Which I love!) one of the examples

[@G3rain1]

Simone: I only support eating ethically sourced human.

[@tyrionlannister1628]

Joel’s choice in saving Elle wasn’t about her ability to save the world in his mind, he had lost his daughter once before, he’s never letting that happen again.

[@DashingDavid]

Also with the last episode it’s not that Joel can’t talk or relate to Ellie. She’s closed off bc she was pretty much SA’d last episode. In case you forgot. It’s a pretty easy detail to pick up on.

[@bluej511]

The flashback scene is the dlc in the game, it's such a great back story.

[@deathrowslag78]

Love that DLC it lets Ellie experience a childhood she never had and a relationship she didn't know she wanted

[@SkunksterPlaysPoorly]

Haven’t seen anyone mention it, but they also brought in the original voice/mo-cap actors from the game to play the clickers. The absolute best video game adaptation in existence.

[@vadalia3860]

I think Ellie's guilt would have caused her to agree even if it meant her death & that's why Joel couldn't just suggest offering her a choice to Marlene- he knew Ellie would say "yes" to the procedure even at the cost of her own life & he wasn't willing to lose her.

[@brooklynnewyork23]

Ellie tips her hand in the giraffe scene. She kind of takes on their (the people's she's lost) beliefs that she can change the future. But Joel won't make that sacrifice for a "chance at a cure". I dont even think he would even if there was a guarantee it would work. To him, he'd kill half of the survivors left in the world hinself to keep her safe, what difference does it make to him if cordyceps does it

[@earth2saka]

I personally think it's more complicated than that but I've never seen people discuss it at length for some reason. Look at it this way: assuming Ellie agrees, assuming the procedure works out and they manage to harvest what they need from her, assuming they do make a vaccine out of it and assuming they have the means to mass produce it (that's already way too many assumptions but let's just run with it for now), what then? It's in the hands of the Fireflies. The Fireflies that were hunted down by the government. Marlene and the crew lost families and friends to FEDRA, to raiders, to cannibals'. And you're telling me they're ok with that and they're gonna share the vaccine with everyone? With people like David? "Oh, you ate my daughter, here take this and welcome back to society." Nah. The world is past the point of no return.

[@brooklynnewyork23]

@@earth2saka I don't see gatekeeping a cure being the issue. They'd be hamstringing themselves doing so. The show has often showed how sketched out people are because they can be infected first and foremost, and then ulterior post apocalypse world without law motivations being secondary concern

[@LeoRichVids]

Ashley Johnson voiced AND motion captured Ellie in the games! She's incredible!

[@diisomoto]

1:09:43 Thank you George for pointing this out!! While I understand the countless reactors who have questioned why they didn't give Ellie a choice, I always counter with, "Do you really think Marlene and the Fireflies would let her walk away?"

[@KS-xk2so]

It always annoys me when people don't actually put this whole "choice" into the proper context. First of all.... even IF they gave Ellie the choice... is that the right thing to do? She's still a child. We give adults medical power of attorney for a reason, and not just life experience... brain chemistry is a reason too. Ellie's a heavily traumatized girl who's suffered constant horrors and all she wants is for that suffering to "mean something"... she probably would sacrifice herself if given the choice.... which is a great example of why we don't let emotional kids make those choices. People always ignore how ill defined the "Save the World" choice actually is.... a cure doesn't actually save anything...this surgery isn't a magic button to fix everything. One doctors thinks it "might be a cure".... thats it. Even if it was a cure.... are the Fireflies going to give it to all humanity for free? Hell no. Even if we pretend they would do that.... society has collapsed and there are now hundreds of warlords, all over the world, each ruling over their little kingdoms.... does a cure suddenly mean those people will all just give up power and go back to our "ordered society"? Again... No.

[@Dilligff]

@@KS-xk2so Thank you for being one of the few people that shares my exact same opinion. I think Joel was really struggling with what was the 'right choice' as they were escorting him out and made his final decision when they abused him. The Fireflies weren't the kind of people you could depend on to do the 'right' thing even if they did somehow manage to come up with a cure. Life had moved on and he'd physically seen that communities could still thrive even without a cure. While there was a chance the sacrifice could've meant something, there was a higher chance it wouldn't have. Bills letter telling him to have something to fight for probably still resonated with him. He chose Ellie.

[@josefstalin9678]

Not only that, but do you really think joel would let her sacrifice herself? After all, if he believed she would've chosen life, he would've been honest with her afterwards. He lied because he knew she would've chosen to die for a potential cure and he couldn't accept that Neither side cared about what Ellie wanted, or at least didn't care enough to give her a choice

[@Dilligff]

@@josefstalin9678 The key thing here is Ellie was a 14 year old child that shouldn't have to make that decision. Nobody is debating about the little boy at the beginning of whether or not he should have a chance to live. There was a reason they bookended this series with those two scenes. Joel was faced with a literal manifestation of the trolley problem, which has no 'correct' answer, only a subjective one. He lied to Ellie to give her a chance at the remains of a childhood without anger, regret, or fear. From my perspective he did the wrong thing for the right reasons. To others he might've done the right thing for the wrong reasons. And so on..

[@josefstalin9678]

@@Dilligff They didn't give that boy a choice because he was never stated to be immune, so he'd've become an infected and tried to kill people. Fedra killed that kid because he would've put people's safety at risk, which is doing the right thing for the right reason. The fireflies were trying to sacrifice a child for the tiniest potential chance of a cure and Joel was willing to sacrifice the potential for a cure to make up for him losing his daughter. Think of it like this, if Joel's daughter had lived and been perfectly fine with him throughout the apocalypse, he'd probably be all for the fireflies sacrificing Ellie for a chance at a cure. He's just trying to fill the void in his soul from losing his daughter (and Tess, to and extent) and the only way he can do that is by protecting Ellie. He knows that if she was offered the choice of sacrificing herself, she'd say yes (which is why he lied to her) and he still wouldn't be able to accept that the same way the fireflies wouldn't have accepted Ellie saying no because they've invested everything into trying to find this cure

[@LudusAurea]

Ooh nice. Just a note, Tommy and Joel haven't seen each other in like, 10 years, not a few months. It's been a fe w months since Joel left Boston. In the game it takes basically like a year to get across the country and they had already not seen each other in several years. An important thing about the end of Season 1/Game 1 that a lot of people who claim to have played it don't understand is, there was no guarantee whatsoever that letting them kill Ellie was going to lead to a cure. You read various memos and listen to tapes and stuff through the game that makes it very clear that the doctors who have been researching this truly have no idea if it will or will not work, including and especially Marlene. To Joel he's going to lose another daughter without any promise that it will benefit anyone. The lying toher part sucks but they kidnapped her and tried to kill him.

[@Xanafrim]

Elaine Miles, the First Nation woman, was in Northern Exposure, she was awesome in that too.

[@bennywark3103]

"Gun's all the way over there." XD

[@sc1338]

Last nations

[@gonzo6489]

"You made him soup" "Yea, I did." Her delivery is so low key hysterical. I feel like in this one exchange we know exactly what kind of marriage they have lol

[@aerthreepwood8021]

​@@sc1338Oh, hey, a weird fascist!

[@FirstnameLastname-q3y]

The first nation's were not from Siberian primitives

[@tomsmith01SF]

You edited out the Baby Girl line. Good work George.

[@daved2352]

There's only so much we can cry I suppose.

[@tomsmith01SF]

That line is the redeeming moment of that episode. I know George is a BORG but...

[@TukaihaHithlec]

6:26 This comes up in the game, but the show changed the story. Ellie and Riley used to hang out at the mall frequently. There was a lone mounted patrol named Winston that sympathized with the girls. Winston guarded the mall, allowed the girls in and supervised them, and even taught them how to ride his horse. After Riley ran away, Ellie still went to the mall by herself. After Winston died of old age, she stopped going at all. After Riley came back, the two went to the mall again, but since Winston wasn’t patrolling anymore a horde of infected had wandered in. At this point in the game, Ellie sees the horses and runs over to them. Maria asks if she’s ever ridden a horse, which Ellie says she has. A surprised Joel asks where on earth Ellie had ridden a horse before, which she responds with a short story about Winston. This actually happens multiple times, one being when Bill tries to explain “popping a clutch” to Ellie, only for her to interrupt and assert she already knows how. Other unexpected skills include shooting a rifle and treating both gunshot and stab wounds. The only thing really included in the show is that Ellie can’t swim, which is never a problem here, but is a frequent puzzle in the game.

[@lunardying]

Hey Simone, at 1:09:56 the nurse on the left is Laura Bailey ! (which also happens to play an important character in the second game)

[@jessicajacksonjax]

The little giggle after "four fingers" and the resigned look on Simone's face 😂

[@TukaihaHithlec]

*Fun Fact!* To flesh out Joel and Ellie’s characters and make them feel more natural, Troy and Ashley watched a developer play through the game while they did improv in character. Most of the little interactions between cutscenes was just them making stuff up, pointing out environmental details to each other, and chatting about whatever came to mind.

[@nikkisatchel4699]

thing is...the resort people werent participating i cannibalism, the crazy preacher guy and his henchman was the inly ones that knew what they were doing...everybody else thought it was hunted meat...the 1st girl in the opening scene who was cryin, they were eatung her father, thats why he said what he said about not being able to bury him

[@phtevenj]

6:22 i JUST noticed the person in the black and white checkered coat is using a shovel to pick up a piece of firewood.... 🤣

[@dnllrnt]

My wife had shared the trailer for season 2 and said, "It's coming back! I'm excited!" Me: (knowing goddamn well what happens in LoU2) ... can't wait...

[@noteliassmith]

This is me trying to avoid giving out spoilers lol. I can't wait for S2 but not only is it going to be an emotionally exhausting story, I'm sure the discourse is going to be just as annoying as when the game released

[@TukaihaHithlec]

@@noteliassmith Surely not quite as bad, but still bad.

[@goodguykonrad3701]

@@TukaihaHithlec It honestly could have been good, they just executed it poorly. Implied spoilers ahead. Also, I may not remember it perfectly now. And sorry for the essay, just needed to rant. When your first introduction to characters is them doing the worst things possible, it's hard to really empathise with them. When you then get revenge on all of them, it resolves the conflict and their story feels concluded. To, at the climax, completely restart the story and begin humanising them, it's difficult to give a shit because you know they're all going to die, and it's coming from a place of hating them. When all the dynamics they set up are going to be unresolved, you don't get invested. The ordered the events in the game to ensure you spend the second half uninvested and knowing how it will all end. We already know what Joel did was wrong, they didn't need to try and tell us that so after the fact. It would have worked much better if you don't see Joel's death right at the start. You play back and forth as Abby and Ellie. I'm not sure how best you try and hide what Abby is going to do, but you play as Abby on her way to find Joel, but without the player knowing that's the goal. At the same time you play as Ellie. You don't know why or how, but Joel is dead, and Ellie is getting revenge. Maybe you ensure that Abby's journey to Joel takes a year and Ellie catching up to Abby takes a year. That way, when you go back and forth between them, it's the same season, but it's really a year apart. The half-way or 2/3 point is you, as Abby, finding Joel sooner than you expected, and then, the player as Abby, has to beat Joel to death as Ellie watches. It's sudden, shocking, and you've spent half the game growing to like Abby instead of hating her and then the game tries to humanise her. With the year 1 journey as Abby resolved, you return Ellie a year later catching up to Abby and then you start doing your whole story of Ellie getting revenge, except this time it's on characters you already know and consider allies. You can have Abby's stuff with the cults as a major conflict for her character for the start of the game instead of feeling like a side plot we need to get through to reach the main story. Alternatively, have us only play as Abby for the first half and have it switch after she kills Joel. The game also does some weird dissonance with you playing as Ellie getting revenge and being really upset, but they keep showing flashbacks of her being upset and distant with Joel. It just makes Ellie's motives confused because we can see right before his death that she was distancing herself from him. Leaving her forgiving Joel to the last cutscene just made it void of any weight. We already see Ellie avenge him, so the scene forgiving him doesn't change anything, more serving to make sense of something confusing in the story. It would have been much better to play all/most of the past sequences in one go some point in the mid/late game after Joel's death as I've described above. Have it revealed to the player then, after we know Joel dies, that Ellie found out about the fireflies and hated Joel for saving her. Have this resolve as a contained, continuous part of the game that feels cathartic, to add pain to the knowledge Joel dies soon after. Very little about the narrative of the second game needed to be changed, they just needed to change the order in which events happen imo. HUGE spoilers for Attack on Titan ahead. Do not spoil this amazing show, trust me, it is so good that you shouldn't have it ruined. Part of the reason I think the redemption and humanisation in Attack on Titan works so well is that we get to know Reiner before he betrays us. We grow to like and respect his character, and then, all at once, he's suddenly revealed to be one of the titans trying to end humanity. You have a reason to care about why Reiner, Bertholdt, and Annie betray everyone, and you got to know the characters from a starting place of liking them: first impressions are important. Additionally, AoT has a lot of mystery about why things in the world are the way they are, and Reiner and Bertholdt's betrayal complement this theme and deepen the mystery. When the show progresses even further and you learn that the mission to kill humanity in the walls isn't just evil for evil's sake, and that the situation is nuanced, it's done by uncovering some of the mysteries of the world. The Last of Us doesn't really have mystery about why people would want to kill Joel. The end of the first game is Joel doing something awful and selfish, and the player feeling conflicted because we know it's wrong but we also care about these characters too much. Joel wasn't this saint who is inexplicably murdered for the story to uncover the nuances of why it was justified. He was a person who did terrible things, found redemption in Ellie, but his past sins caught up to him. When you keep the story dedicated to what this event meant for Ellie, you have a character driven story to talk about revenge. When you try to point out that the people who killed Joel had their reasons and maybe they are people too who don't deserve death anymore than Joel does, the story isn't saying anything knew because the first game ended with the ultimate reason for the rest of the world to hate Joel. [Space at the end to hide spoilers for both The Last of Us and Attack on Titan]

[@Ryuu44]

@@TukaihaHithlec The actress that plays that character already got death threats aimed at her and her kid, so we're probably in for a ride again...

[@movieswithmatticus5469]

@@goodguykonrad3701 wrong

[@AnEyeRacky]

Fun fact, the guy who fires at Ellie and her horse at the 46:55 mark, is Troy Baker, the voice actor for Joel in the videogames

[@frozenharold]

@@AnEyeRackyitxseven more of a fun fact that he is who Ellie kills with the cleaver, so, Ellie essentially killed Joel.

[@AnEyeRacky]

@frozenharold Agreed, it's interesting choice lol. There are actually several of the voice actors in the show. It was really cool of them to do that. 10s of millions of people played the games, they loved them. Sooooo cool for them to include as many as they did in the tv adaptation

[@toreadoress]

I know you watched the show over a year ago, maybe you found some answers or even played the game by now, but if you haven't, I want to clarify about the time Joel was hurt. In the show it seemed like everything was happening in couple of days, but in the game it was weeks by the time Ellie met David. And some spoilers for the game's DLC and what happened - Ellie found a med pack with various medicine in a crashed medic helicopter so she did have medicine initially to give Joel to help him fight and slow down the infection + disinfect/stitch the wound. So by the time she met David and the events of the episode happening, it's been weeks for Joel to at least fight the infection and start getting better, so he didn't just got up couple of days later like nothing happened (like in the show).

[@deathrowslag78]

Yeah that transition in the game was awesome playing as Ellie becoming the protector not the protected but with lessons learned from Joel a survival instinct kicked in

[@earth2saka]

Be that as it may, it's still completely unrealistic. We're talking about a deep gut wound. Stitching it up is fine and well for external bleeding but before you do that, you also have to repair all the internal damage that was done. People are trained by movies to think that you just remove the bullet or the shrapnel or whatever caused the wound and then you close up and you're done. You don't. The antibiotics don't fix internal damage, they just protect from infection. Joel is basically bleeding internally and not only he would not be able to move after weeks or months of rest, he would be dead.

[@ChibiHoshiDragon]

@@earth2saka If you play the DLC, Ellie flat-out says she has *done this before* and that she is *kind of an expert.* If you have a brain you don't need to be spoon fed that Fedra had been providing medical training to her.

[@JCG52577]

I just love that the real things in the one scene are Pedro, Bella, some branches, and the giraffe(mostly!).

[@tobythompson5945]

I love watching you both. You seem like such good, caring people.

[@rickymoranjr9609]

Pedro's acting during that scene where Joel told Tommy about what he and Ellie have both been through and all of the people they've both killed during their travels was pure perfection in my book

[@TukaihaHithlec]

1:12:32 Ellie doesn’t blame herself for their deaths. She feels survivor’s guilt for knowing that they died from something that she can’t. Joel also assumed Ellie was blaming herself, the miscommunication of which frustrated her. Ellie is saying that her survivor’s guilt was alleviated by the knowledge that she would be saving future people from that, even if it cost her own life. “It can’t be for nothing.”

[@sweetnumb]

The part with Joel getting better "as fast as he did" is actually quite realistic. He had quite a bit of time to heal, and was probably only wasn't getting better because he had to fight off infection. When used to treat strep throat, for example, it only takes around a day before you're no longer infectious to others, though it can take a week or more before your own infection is completely gone. However, in the meantime, you feel much better. Really the most unrealistic part is perhaps shown off-camera, in that you need to keep taking the antibiotics (if it's really penicillin) for the prescribed amount of time (usually a couple weeks) or the infection will start coming back. However, if they did have a different antibiotic, like levofloxacin as an example, that's in the fluoroquinolone class of antibiotics and it reaches its highest performance based on concentration (which he was given extremely concentrated doses). It is a stronger antibiotic that begins to work in hours, but can take days to completely cure an infection. And it's clear that Joel is able to walk around, but you can easily tell he's not completely better yet. It's unlikely most people in the post-apocalyptic world know shit about antibiotics and just assume it's all the same. But, assuming Joel had a bit of luck with what he was given, which isn't very unrealistic that he would finally have some when looking at how absolutely terrible his luck has tended to be in this show so far, then he'd absolutely be fully capable of doing everything he's doing. Plus like before, it's clear he's not totally healed or anything just judging by the way he's moving. When you're sick you can do a lot more than you WANT to do, you just don't because you want it to heal as fast as possible. But if you NEED to get something done, you can do it. All this to say that this show has been extremely realistic at least up until this point and his recovery (which clearly took AWHILE that they just didn't explicitly show) is not at all unrealistic. It's not until you get to the last episode that you have to suspend your disbelief a bit. I know what he did at that point was his forte, but still... how could he be THAT much better than everyone else on the planet (or at least in the Fireflies)?

[@Benjamas-]

In this circumstance two mega doses of penicillin can decimate most of the primary infection, Joel’s systematic symptoms are most likely coming from immune response (fever mainly), which will reduce significantly if the primary infection is abated. He will be weak, he will be sore, but he could possibly do it IF the infection was susceptible to penicillin. The most likely infection from a penetrating gut wound is E. coli, which is often penicillin resistant these days and needs different medications, unless the infection came from the bat or the unsterilised needle and thread or environment. I think also the adrenaline kicking in would be a big factor in him being able to perform like he does For anyone’s post apocalypse knowledge, look for books called MiMs, and learn these intramuscular injection sites and the volumes they can handle in an adult with out killing the muscle: thigh (vastus lateralis)

[@1marconisa]

I think I agree. I feel the time he lay there in that house had to have been quite long. When she left to go hunting she gave Joel the last morsel of food they had, which probably indicates several days. So that gave him time to heal, but also time ofr the infection to spread. And penicillin, which should be injected into long muscles, can knock out the majority of an infection within a couple of days, although as was pointed out, you need to keep taking it to prevent it returning.

[@Dilligff]

I don't think the final episode was that unrealistic. We've had plenty enough irl events that shows what happens when there is a breakdown in communication. On top of that Marlene stated they lost a lot of people along the way. The Fireflies weren't seasoned soldiers like FEDRA, they were mostly ordinary citizens handed guns and told to 'fight the power' probably with minimal training. Joel, on the other hand, had spent a portion of the last two decades killing people and lacked any hesitation in pulling the trigger, had honed his aim to being near impeccable, and had developed an instinctual level of situational awareness that would allow him to plow through them while they were still trying to figure out what was happening. Which he did.

[@deg1studios]

@@Benjamas- Since you seem to know a lot about this I will ask a question that might come off as dumb but I don't really know a lot about infections. But after twenty years of apocalypse, might E.coli not have evolved to not be penicillin resistant? Or else, could it have essentially died out and given way to different types of infection? Since humanity no longer interacts with it in the same way, I mean.

[@GlennShook]

lol the guy that was “murdered” attacked Joel while they were trying to leave on horse. There is no grey area. 🤣

[@LudusAurea]

Not only that but attacked him unprovoked - Joel didn't do anything to him. It's not like in the game where they killed a bunch of the cannibals buddy's and then the cannibals came looking for them at the university and then he killed more of them. In the show the cannibals attack them completely unprovoked.

[@jhornacek]

But those three other guys who came back wouldn't have told David that. They would have said that this "crazy man" attacked them out of nowhere. As far as David and the rest of his group knows, Joel attacked them out of nowhere.

[@jhornacek]

@@LudusAurea I think you have that backwards. The guys at the university are part of David's group but they aren't looking for Joel at that point. They're just exploring, looking for food or supplies (David sent them to town to find stuff). In the DLC the men hunting Ellie in the mall (in the present day, not the flashback) are after Joel and Ellie because of the men they killed at the university. And then when Ellie stumbles upon David and his group it's just random chance that they're the group that attacked them at the university. They weren't looking for Ellie and Joel at that point.

[@TukaihaHithlec]

@@jhornacek Stopping by to confirm, you are correct here.

[@josefstalin9678]

Not to mention they're supposedly starving, looking for food, and instead of shooting some of the monkeys around the campus, they go after a man and a little girl. They really jumped straight to cannibalism right from the start

[@TukaihaHithlec]

54:47 This was a factor in the first game. Aside from spores (which the show removed) the primary method of transmission was from saliva to blood via bites. As a result, Ellie and Joel always assumed her saliva could transmit the cordyceps infection. It’s confirmed later that Ellie’s bodily fluids do grow cordyceps outside of her body. One time this is relevant is when Ellie drowns and Joel has to do CPR. For a moment he’s about to give her mouth-to-mouth but stops himself because of that concern. Unfortunately the sequel forgoes all this because on multiple occasions a knife with regular infected blood on it is stabbed into a regular person but for reasons unknown it doesn’t infect them. SPOILERS There is at least some acknowledgement in that Ellie was confident that she could never kiss anyone ever again because the infection would spread. Someone kisses Ellie suddenly and Ellie takes precautions under the assumption that they will turn and need to be killed. Again, for reasons unknown, this doesn’t happen.

[@otterpoet]

20:25 Simone - 'I deny your reality and substitute my own!' XD I'm so glad they stuck to the ending. Still remember playing that sequence in-game and being stuck between horror and rage - one of the rare moments when stealing player agency works perfectly. (Sidenote: James, the guy with David in E8, is Troy Baker AKA Joel from the game).

[@MrET-kr9zj]

"Maybe people should stop drinking Reindeer piss" one more thing we agree on 😂😂

[@bobdigital21]

Marleen couldn't accept a no from Ellie. If she had to die so everyone else could live that is just how it had to be. Joel on the other hand couldn't accept a yes. If Ellie knows her life could potentially save humanity, i think she would do it. 99% Sure. He also thinks she would do it. To Joel this is simply unacceptable. He lost a daughter once. Losing another simply isn't an option for him. Even if he needs to lie to her to keep her from doing it, that's fine as long as he can keep her in his life. This is a story about love, the good and the bad. How it heals us and how it warps us. How it brings out the best and worse.

[@coreydaw]

My argument for Joel is in the game the Fireflies are shown to be pretty incompetent on several occasions and the 'Cure' was definitely not a total certainty.! Joel did not steal the cure for mankind, He stole the potential of it in exchange for Ellie.

[@themiIes]

What he stole is Ellies right to choose. He is not a good man

[@sacredbeastzenon]

A cure is pointless it won't change anything.

[@erikjohnson3859]

Joel is not meant to be a good person. Period. Apologists for him have NO leg to stand on.

[@sacredbeastzenon]

@@erikjohnson3859 Joel was right to save Ellie. A cure is pointless. It changes nothing.

[@sacredbeastzenon]

@@themiIes The Fireflies weren't giving Ellie a choice.

[@alicesouza2803]

At the end everyone made a decision for Ellie based on their own needs and beliefs and Ellie was not given a choice although it was her life on the line. For the fireflies it was just easier to kill a sleeping girl before she had the chance to talk and make them feel guilty, specially with the chance of her not agreeing with dying for the cause, then rheir heroic sacrifice would be tranformed into murder, they would not live with that. And Joel was at such a state of mind that he could not bear the possibility of losing another child, even if deep inside he knew she would choose to die. He didn't even think of what she would want when he killed everybody, and the the proof he knew for sure she would want to sacrifice herself is his lie. He lied because he knew she would hate him for what he did, but at that point nothing mattered to him anymore, he hurt so much for so long that he refused to open that wound ever again.

[@LudusAurea]

I don't think murder weighs on their conscience. They killed tons of people, they were terrorists whether or not they were "freedom fighters."

[@ashtonlewis9624]

Well said! Couldn't agree more.

[@sproductionsinc]

It could've been handled so much better. Marlene should have told her the truth, Ellie most likely would've chosen to sacrifice herself, Ellie could've talked to Joel alone to say goodbye & given him closure, & then hopefully the vaxx would've worked. Knowing how Joel is, you'd think Marlene would know that being hostile wasn't going to work. If Ellie happened to say no to dying then everyone needs to accept that.

[@MsSwordwolf]

It doesn't help that Marlene tells Joel in the garage that Ellie will probably be murdered by raiders one day, or ripped apart by someone infected by cordyceps. Like, way to goad the guy who just killed almost everyone, telling him that this child's only purpose is to die.

[@alicesouza2803]

@sproductionsinc that would be the ideal scenario, right? But tlou is not an ideal world. It's a world in which decisions are made by either people who have been broken by their world ending (in many ways) or that were born into a broken world where the notions of right and wrong are very different from ours. These decisions are usually made in a state of desperation and in a certain way Joel and Marlene are guided by a very much similar feeling of hope when deciding Ellies destiny at the end. Marlene's hope in fulfilling her life goal of "saving the world" and Joel's hope of living the life that was stolen from him on tbe outbreak. They will do whatever it takes to achieve that and accidentally they transform Ellie into a piece of their broken soul puzzle.

[@nathanrodriguez914nr]

In the first episode, the dog noticed there was something "off" with the old lady. The machine detects the presence of cordyceps, but a dog can sense if a person is changing.

[@Chris_McC]

Ashley Johnson played Chrissy in the 80's sitcom Growing Pains. A wisecracking "Annie" lookalike in the final 2 seasons. The character that dying shows add to squeeze out another season or two

[@Bill-2203]

The argument against letting the fireflies kill Ellie is that they are not the most competent organisation, in Boston they were mostly killed off, they had to flee the college where one of the scientists was bitten by an infected monkey and they lost most of their people crossing the country. So why should anyone believe they can actually make a cure

[@LudusAurea]

Not only that but the game explicitly says they don’t know if it will work.

[@deathrowslag78]

I'm sure I found a document saying they found people like Ellie before and they died while been operated on. So her been immune is not a guarantee for a world wide cure

[@themiIes]

​@@LudusAureabut it was a chance. The point is that Joel not only put Ellie above the rest of the world but that he took away her own choice

[@Hakkar6993]

@@LudusAurea And beyond "will it work at all" you also need to imagine they'd somehow have to mass-produce and mass-distribute it...

[@TukaihaHithlec]

18:16 They sure can! Monkeys won’t turn, but they can carry and transmit human cordyceps. In the game, one of the Firefly scientists was tasked with putting down the infected test monkeys when they packed up the lab to leave. He decided to set them free instead, getting bit in the process. Before he turned, he recorded his final thoughts, leaving them for whoever found his body after shooting himself in the head.

[@JeffKelly03]

Just here to reiterate that Graham Greene and Elaine Miles are the fucking best.

[@LordLOC]

I LOVE Graham Greene. I really wish he had hit it bigger in Hollywood, but he's had an awesome career and has been in some of my favorite TV and movies. Plus, he seems like an awesome dude.

[@GorgeousRandyFlamethrower-]

@@LordLOC I just watched "The Last of His Tribe" on HBO Max like a week ago. Not the best made-for-TV movie they've ever put out, but Graham Greene was wonderful in that

[@brendanfalvy1281]

Probably showing my age but I’m getting flashbacks of Northern Exposure. Also, Graham Greene is always Kicking Bird living rent free in my brain.

[@LordLOC]

@@brendanfalvy1281 Yes, Northern Exposure, that's where I fell in love with Greene. Still waiting on that supposed reboot/legacy continuation of NE they are supposedly still going to make....in 2050...

[@DjapeKostic]

The guy who gets a cleaver in his neck is Troy Baker, he's voicing Joel. And the guy who worked for the evil lady is Tommy's voice actor.

[@jshur7795]

I think it's awesome that George thought of what happened to Drogo when Joel took the gut wound. This might sound weird but that's proper dungeon delving 101. And great instincts on the group leader cause that guy, WHACKJOB.

[@TukaihaHithlec]

20:43 This is one of my major gripes with the show. Joel’s injury is significantly more grievous in the game. While the mentality of “he can’t die, he’s the main character” is still there, it looks so dire that it makes you think “man, I don’t know how he’s gonna survive this”. Then it cuts, there’s a timeskip, and now you’re playing as Ellie by yourself. The game leaves you to think Joel really died for around half an hour, and changing the playable character does a lot to enforce that. Meanwhile, the show doesn’t even bother for a minute, revealing that Joel is alive first thing next episode. It frustrates me because they could have just cut that out of the next episode and reveal he’s alive at the end.

[@jasonlmeadows]

The scene of Joel in the hospital just gunning down everyone totally reminds me of the police department scene in the 84 Terminator.

[@phtevenj]

so George i gewgled it and penicillin is supposed to go in the muscle not a vein

[@foadskyflier]

Regular Penicillin-G can be given both through intravenous and intramuscular injection. However Penicillin-G-Benzathine and penicillin-G-procaine injection should only be given in the muscle and never be given intravenously, because this may cause serious or life-threatening side effects or even death. That being said, I have no idea what the hell Ellie was doing injecting it in the stomach around the wound. That was neither an intravenous nor an intramuscular injection. Intramuscular injections should be done into large muscles in areas far away from major blood-vessels and nerves. Most commonly in the gluteus muscle(buttocks), the lateral area of the thigh(vastus lateralis muscle) or the deltoid muscle(shoulder)

[@YukonBloamie]

I've commented a billion times on the game and show of TLOU franchise but there is a thing I always want to point out that is different between the game and the show. The show did an excellent job of adapting the story, and it does a great job of getting the viewer to feel the gravity of the story. Much of the dialog in the game is subtle and implies how the characters are feeling. But as the player you know how they are feeling because you are playing a super violent video game and have watched the main characters and NPCs die brutally over and over again while massacring hundreds of people and monsters. In the show they imply more than they show how dangerous Joel is while in the game you are with him for hours as he crushes skulls, breaks necks, and hacks people to death with a melee weapon. So at the end when Joel goes to save Ellie, you get a pit in your stomach that says "Oh, shit... he's gonna kill every last one of them." That's a nod to the early TLOU2 trailer :)

[@Cthulwho69]

Awww shouldn't have talked through that entire scene of Joel killing everyone. The way they used sound and the lack thereof in that scene was phenominal.

[@paul4000]

You can watch it whenever you want

[@Cthulwho69]

@@paul4000 Yes, I know that. I was concerned about me missing out on it but rather them.

[@cheriegoldie7179]

Ellie would have no idea where the penicillin goes... why not into the infected area?

[@jhornacek]

She literally says in the episode "Joel, where do inject this?" She has no idea.

[@Jonathan-oz1cv]

Hopes u guy do a playthrough on the channel!

[@joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo5330]

I was just thinking the same thing, would be awesome

[@radujelnacov4115]

That would be amazing, would 100% watch the whole thing. The show is grat but the game hits even harder, you get even more atached to the characters

[@nickinskeep]

Commenting for visibility! That would be so gd entertaining

[@DrLipkin]

Not only were Ashley Johnson and Troy Baker in the show, but Laura Bailey was one of the nurses in the operating room.

[@drayman101]

It's been a while since I played the game, but I don't recall there being any certainty that the Fireflies could actually make a cure. If anything, I would say the opposite is true: they are repeatedly shown to be incompetent and sloppy. I think at best, they thought Ellie was worth sacrificing if there was any chance at all that they could figure out a way to develop a cure from her, however remote the possibility.

[@AudoPlay]

nah. the narrative hinges on the fact that the vaccine would've worked. and the devs say this up and down in all interviews. for joel, it was never a question of whether or not the fireflies could actually make it or not, he believed they could. that wasnt' what his choice was about at all. it's not like if they sat joel down and showed him endless documents about how guaranteed it would be that he'd be like 'ya ok' lol. he'd make the same choice, that's the point.

[@drayman101]

@@AudoPlay The narrative hinges on the fact that she's the hope for a cure, Joel doesn't realize that she'd be killed in the process to develop one until she's already on the table and he's being kept away from her. My point was that she probably would have died for nothing in the end, I never misunderstood Joel's choice.

[@PerkPresents]

I feel like Joel definitely has a good reason to be mad at tommy when he meets back up with him. I get Tommy wanted to get away from Joel and that whole life but to not at least try to tell him that he's ok and don't need saving is extremely selfish of him. He knows Joel will try everything he can to try to find and save him. Joel lost Tess and been through hell on this journey to him. Just for him to be living it up with 0 care about what's happening to Joel.

[@ruhk]

1:13:00 there’s a brief conversation in the game right before they reach the firefly facility where Ellie says she doesn’t know what they’re walking into but is more than willing to die if it means a cure might be possible. It makes Joel’s decision that much more of a selfish betrayal than what is portrayed here, since in the game he knew it’s a sacrifice she was willing to make.

[@YukonBloamie]

Joel getting injured in the game is a gut punch. It's both main character's worst fears realized: Joel's afraid he can't protect Ellie and she is afraid of being alone. After it goes to black the Winter chapter starts and you are playing as Ellie by herself. The Left Behind episode was the DLC that came out a couple of years later from the original game. It was basically the same as the show and in the same time frame just added later as DLC.

[@memorieswithouthomes1438]

When Ellie starts hitting David with the blade, there's a split second where Bella looks exactly like Ashley Johnson.

[@cameronhermann9400]

Had to leave a second comment as separate from my other one. Marlene didn’t know Ellie was immune until she got bit, then told Firefly command or whatever and they tried to put a working lab and surgeon together

[@life-x476]

The ending really sticks with you for a while and its great seeing diffrent opinions, if Joel was right or wrong. In my pov there is no way you let a 14 year old girl decide, if shs wanna end her life for a possible greater good (espically handling trauma, suvivors guilt and stuff). So Joel did the "right" thing a parent would do for thier child, which is saving her no matter the cost. But thats just my view on this ending and there surly a lot of people who might disagree on that. Great reaction as always :)

[@Tensen01]

They didn't even know if their theory about why she was immune was correct. They never met her, didn't do ANY tests or studying, just jumped both feet into a hypothesis that had just as much chance of being wrong. Open up her brain just to find it wasn't what they thought. And even if they were right about why, again, only hypothesis that what they were going to do would work, they'd have to do tests and trials. And then how do they even manufacture and distribute it? And let's say it works, what then? As Tess said "You aren't immune to being torn to pieces", the world is still ruined and never coming back. It's certainly not black & white, and Joel and Marlene were both selfish in their actions, but I personally doubt the plan would have even worked. There were too many guesses and points where it could have fallen apart. I think the wrong part was the lie, but also, what else could he have really done that wouldn't immediately turn Ellie against him? And the whole point of what he did was not not lose her. Sad thing is, she knows, in her heart she knows, but she can't accept it because if she does Maria was right. "The only ones who can betray us, are the people we trust." And she can't allow that to actually mean Joel, not after everything.

[@nooneofconsequence1251]

this might be a symptom of being from a video game... where often you have characters explaining how things are through exposition stating with confidence things that there would be no way that they would actually know, and you're just supposed to accept it, because there's only so much time they can spend explaining the plot or doing world building since large chunks of time are taken up by gameplay... and gamers usually just get used to taking this stuff for granted as true since they've come to expect information to be delivered this way. There's no time for them to allow things to develop organically, and nobody wants to play a game where you sit around in a hospital for months or years while they run tests and conduct controlled studies. To be fair they do the same thing in a lot of fantasy, sci-fi, comic book, and (perhaps especially) horror movies... particularly those that are very lazily underwritten... but.. it's almost unheard of that they *don't* do this in video games.

[@KS-xk2so]

The thing is with the "choice" at the end is... so many people frame it as Save Humanity or Save Ellie.... and that's just not what it is. Save Ellie is pretty straight forward yes..... but "Save Humanity" is just not true. Is it possible they could find a cure by cutting into Ellie's brain? Maybe. One doctor has decided it "could be a cure" after having her for maybe 6 hours tops. They didn't look into alternatives, get other doctors involved, try ANYTHING else really... they just decided to knock her out and cut her up, because this is a world where you have to take what you want. Point being... even IF this did lead to a cure for humanity... its doubtful it would 'save the world". The Fireflies would control the cure. Are they going to give it to everyone? No. Even if we pretend they did.... society has collapsed, and there are hundreds of little kings dotted throughout the world, ruling their little slice of it... does a cure suddenly make it so that they'll be fine giving up power? No. The world is changed and even a cure wouldn't take it back to what it used to be. "Society" is DEAD and GONE. Thats all setting aside the sticky situation of people who say "Ellie should be given the choice herself".... which, I get.... but I mean.... we give adults medical decision making power over their kids for a reason. Kids shouldn't make those decisions, both from a life experience and a brain chemistry perspective. Ellie is still a kid. A kid who's been HIGHLY traumatized by her journey and is desperate for all her suffering to "mean something"... she'd probably say yes, without even giving it a proper thought. Is Joel's decision made for selfish reasons? Yes.... but its the closest thing to an adult guardian she has... his only mistake is then lying to her. Honestly there is no 100% "RIGHT" choice... which just means its very well written lol

[@DustinHawke]

In the late 80s and early 90s, Ashley Johnson played Chrissy Seaver on the TV show Growing Pains.

[@otterpoet]

I'm also waiting for Simone's new book, _The Ethical Cannibal_

[@LeoRichVids]

One of the nurses at the end is the motion capture actress of Abby in part 2 of the game

[@dnllrnt]

The second I heard Troy Baker talk, I popped loud. What a voice acting legend.

[@HolgerLovesMusic]

I wish they would react to Nextlix's DARK in german with english subs. There are many good series and shows. But DARK for me, takes the crown!

[@WordoftheElderGods]

Seconded

[@elizabethparker4511]

Yes! Such an amazing show. I wish Beforeigners was easier to hold of to watch. Though that might require too much editing. Lol

[@johnburns9634]

When the cannibalism is revealed, I was wondering if the preacher's assistant wasn't participating. When we first see him he's talking about deer, and we might find some, when the preacher asks him for his faith. But maybe he's faltering because he's starting to wonder if he can go without food until they find some more deer. Like for the preacher, the deer that Ellie shot is just more meat, but for the assistant it's his next meal.

[@judoisnotamonkey]

The song playing on the carousel is an instrumental carnival-like cover of Just Like Heaven by The Cure; pretty cute for the sweet moment of Riley and Ellie just shooting the shit on the carousel

[@elizabethparker4511]

I am glad that young lady kept acting. She's great. She and Ashley have similar noses! Holy cow. Also, I have loved Ashley since she was on Growing Pains! Lol

[@carriesmith742]

50:12 this scene is almost EXACTLY LIKE the cut scene from the game! 57:48 have you guys watched "Society of the Snow", which was nominated for an Academy Award for its depiction of both the crash and the survival of the passengers. You'd have to watch with subtitles, but totally worth it! Great movie! 1:12:23 that's exactly how the game ends too! So frustrating. 😢

[@LeoRichVids]

The giraffe scene is just like in the game.

[@CrashOverride35]

You guys probably already know this since this is old, but the left behind episode was necessary and it was an expansion for the game where you play as Ellie exploring the mall with Riley.

[@cazper420]

3:19 That actor is Troy Baker, the voice actor for Joel in the video game.

[@steveshute3810]

The cleaver in the neck guy was the voice actor for Joel in the game.

[@PrimeSniper7]

18:17 In the game you find the audio logs of a Firefly scientist who got infected via a bite from one of the monkeys.

[@StephenMaguire-w1r]

I played this game first in my early 20’s and was very conflicted during the ending. I could see both sides and felt you were sacrificing the greater good. I then replayed the game after I had my daughter and was absolute in my opinion that Joel was 100% right at the end, I couldn’t save Ellie fast enough! I think our opinions on stories like these change with different life experiences, and that’s what’s makes them as special as they are.

[@mj_SR22]

If you want the science of the infection and her immunity, look up Roanoke Game's video on the series. He's a microbiologist who does the science of these kinds of shows and it's really good. Fortunately/unfortunately for the show, you would not need to kill her. It's just for the plot. He walks you through how you could extract a vaccine from her while she was left perfectly healthy and alive.

[@jamesgeorge2852]

Troy Baker who plays Joel in the game plays James in the crazy cannibal episode and then of course Ashley Johnson has her cameo in the next episode as Ellie's mom there's another cameo early on in the series with Jeffery Pierce who voiced Tommy in the game in the show he's Perry the guy who's always next to Melanie Lynskey's character

[@blitzgirl6522]

I know a million folks have already stated these fun facts, but not only is Ashley Johnson in this, but Troy Baker plays David's right hand man, Marlene is acted by her actress from the game, and Tommy's VA played Kathleen's right hand man!

[@jones81381]

I do like what the show did with explaining why Ellie is "immune." The explanation the game gives is plausible enough to the layman that it works very well. The games never explained why Ellie was immune to the effects of the cordyceps fungus, just that she was. She did get infected, and the cordyceps began growing on her brain like with everyone else, but something about her body stopped it from progressing. As far as I recall, she's still actively infected, the fungus is still alive inside her, but the fungus growth stopped progressing after a certain point so she never lost her mind or control of her body.

[@TtownHacker]

Love❤❤. Glad as all heck you kids did this series.

[@AscoyneDascoyne]

Yeah, the giraffe scene in the game was THE image that stuck in everyone's mind. My tiny mind at least 😆

[@clementineshammer6808]

As a dad, I would make the same decisions Joel did. Ellie is his daughter, he will protect her no matter the consequences. And the lying part, that is a tuff call...I don't blame Joel at all

[@quietreason8679]

We've seen Joel lose his daughter. We've seen him lose Tess and Bill and Frank. We've heard him talk about how he was ready to give up, but Ellie pulled him back. Of course he's going to save her, there was no other choice. Marlene should have sat down with the both of them, explained the situation and the stakes, and if they said no, she should have given them some time to consider it and asked again. Ellie would have come around, and she'd have convinced Joel to go back to Tommy.

[@jhornacek]

This is clearer in the game from a recording/diary of Marlene's that you find, but Marlene has no choice about sacrificing Ellie. The other Fireflies won't let her do this. What if she says "Hey everyone, I know we've been working on a cure for ~20 years, and this is the first immune person we've ever found, and we may never find another one, but she's the daughter of a friend of mine so I say we don't kill her to create a cure to save humanity. Everyone ok with that?" The Fireflies would have overthrown her and killed Ellie anyway. There was no point in telling Ellie the truth and offering her a choice - they were going to kill her no matter what. And Ellie would *never* have been able to convince Joel to let this happen. He had opened himself up emotionally to accept Ellie as his new daughter after being shut off for 20 years. If Ellie had died here he would have had nothing else to live for. Joel would have done the same thing he does here - he would rather Ellie live and hate him than die to save humanity. Joel doesn't care about humanity - he cares about Ellie.

[@piratetv1]

Ellie does know how to ride a horse. She learned from a soldier in Boston, inside the mall, where Riley later died

[@cameronhermann9400]

Since it took a couple days for Joel to develop an infection, got the penicillin, and then on pure rage and will came for Ellie while unbelievable is still in the realm of possibility Also the dear and horse came after they chose to cut up some of their dead for food. They didn’t have time to turn toward the animal meat instead of human

[@matthewpollock9685]

Thanks for sharing, guys.

[@tyrionlannister1628]

“He Dies Like That!!?” Oh my sweet summer child, what do you know about Winter?

[@squaddie67]

The thing is with the whole "ewww, infection, gangrene" etc is that indecision or just doing nothing will kill Joel just as dead. Under the less than ideal circumstances, Ellie is absolutely doing the right thing.

[@daved2352]

Yeah, people forget that because we know that in the pre antibiotics world where a small cut could kill you there were plenty of people who did survive huge wounds against the odds. I just put the part where Joel was up and moving again down to him being a former soldier and very determined and running on adrenaline.

[@mistersh4rk]

@@daved2352 joel wasnt a soldier, it was tommy. but yeah, ppl underestimate how much adrenaline makes you capable of. also antibiotics work pretty quickly. the reason u often have to take them for longer is just to make sure the infection doesnt come back afaik

[@daved2352]

@mistersh4rk oh, I thought Joel had been in the military too.

[@Aldebaron-fp3ef]

Recognized Elaine Miles (native American wife ep 6) from great show Northern Exposure.

[@chipsalom]

Oh man I didn't know that you guys were fans of critical role too! That is awesome. I've been with them or I mean watching them since day one and been so deep down there rabbit hole for so long I love it, lol. Maybe you guys did too but I was so happy when my team at work who were all fans as well and I heard about the start of the Kickstarter for the animated series and had the opportunity to help fund it man it's been so satisfying to see the outcome of that! And yeah, Ashley Johnson got to love her! And Laura Bailey watch for her eyes in the last episode at the end... But Ashley of course in a way is the mother of Ellie having been her original voice actor in the game and now she's literally the mother of Ellie in the TV show. What an awesome thing that the creators did. Also it's never totally clear I think in the end that Ellie's mom trusts Margo. It may well have been her and her firefly team that she was running from. Which is why when she makes the ultimatum with her about taking care of Ellie she doesn't say we've been friends our entire lives, she says you've known me my entire life.. Right? It may well have been that her and her pregnancy and her being on the run she's actually trying to get away from the fireflies because it's shown pretty clearly that even if they got and created some type of vaccine type thing they sure as hell don't have the infrastructure to create it at scale and then distribute it. It would be nothing but a tool for them to use as a path to power deciding who receives the cure and who doesn't... So a cure from Ellie is far from any guarantee that the hellscape humanity is descended into is going to end just simply because they created it and so Ellie's death is not necessarily the fix for all mankind that it is made out to be. The problems of the lack of humanity that's descended upon everybody go way deeper than them having had to deal with the zombie apocalypse. The fireflies have shown that they're willing to recruit child soldiers, conduct acts of terrorism bombing places and hurting innocent people, so what makes them actually proven to be the people who are cure should be in the hands of in any way shape or form?

[@MuckJagger]

In the grand tradition of "what happens after the lead characters leave doesn't matter," if you think about it all those people in that cult probably died soon after. There were 15 of them, and Joel and Ellie pretty much took out *all* of the men -- probably no one left there but women and children.

[@josefstalin9678]

So the women and children can go gather the bodies and eat their meat

[@visualartsbyjr2464]

Although a year in passing I still think if Marline was honest to Ellie, then Ellie could have made her own choice. Marline’s biggest mistake was lying to Ellie and not allowing them to say goodbye, cause of that Joel burnt it down (metaphorically speaking). You waiting this long Marline for a cure, a few more hours wouldn’t hurt. And the whole slamming Ellie right into surgery without tests just assumptions comes off as shortsighted. As for the cannibalism part: it would be “fine” if David wasn’t hiding it from the town as a whole. The last two episodes definitely had a “be careful if you take away a persons agency” Joel lying to Ellie is its own ball of wax.

[@TheDaringPastry1313]

- "Be careful who you put your faith in. The only people who can betray us, are the ones we trust." The final moment in season one 100% - The whole mall episode was a DLC for the first game. A lot of references to the second game in this episode, can't say what though. - 39:18 James aka "buddy boy" was the VA and mo-cap actor for Joel in the game. Flaming steak house was a boss fight. Joel calling Ellie baby girl at the end was a big moment because that's what he used to call his daughter. So that shows you how he sees her now. - We found out in intros that there is no cure. Who can say they would be able to do anything with Ellie's condition? How do you mass produce it and get it across the nation? What if they keep it for themselves and become a super power? Too many what ifs and doubts. The symbolism of Joel carrying Ellie in his arms like he did his daughter in the first episode. Since Joel has been straight with her since day one, I do believe she buys what he said at the end. She might have doubts, but he hasn't lied yet, so I think she honestly trusts him.

[@cameronhermann9400]

Literally my same thoughts! We hear, from Marlene herself in the first episode that the Fireflies aren’t winning anywhere. The resources they have are scavenged or stolen from FEDRA. They never would have been able to mass produce a cure without being selfish and trying to force others to follow them or they don’t get it

[@YukonBloamie]

I never liked the "how do we know they can make a cure?" narrative because it's a game and the in-game story tells us they can make a cure. You have to suspend disbelief in any fantasy story at some point and accept the rules of the world. If we were going to play the ultra realism card then they didn't have to kill Ellie to cut open her brain, they could have just extracted her spinal fluid and got the same results without killing her.

[@patchwilliamson]

​@@YukonBloamieIirc, even in the game text the fireflies talk about not being sure they can even create the cure, let alone distribute it.

[@YukonBloamie]

@@patchwilliamson They also didn't know what Marlene and Dr. Anderson knew. Even in the show the Fireflies showed doubts in the first episode, that's already assumed since they are just soldiers.

[@bernardsalvatore1929]

Even though the dog in episode 6 did NOT detect that Ellie had cordyceps in her body, we KNOW from episode 1 that she tests positive for cordyceps when she was tested with the machine!! And as we know from the last episode cordyceps is in her, she's just not turning!! So this does pose an interesting question but I'm of the thought that a bite from Ellie could ACTUALLY infect a human, since technically cordyceps is going throughout her bloodstream!! It's definitely an interesting concept which we don't actually get a chance to see whether or not it is fact rather than theory!! Maybe in season 2 they will touch on that!??