The many problems with Mixed / Spikeless Offense in ADV OU

[@Alandus64]

I have no idea what this guy's talking about, but this ancient shit is tight.

[@lukeblaker8009]

These videos really make my day when I have to get up and go to school in the morning. thank you.

[@typhlosion108]

Your comments on this team seeming powerful by loading high BST mons makes me wonder, I think it would be interesting to play a tournament where teams were required to not breach a certain BST total. What would an ideal ADV OU team look like if your BST couldn't exceed 3000? Or 3500? (Slaking would be truly NU then lol)

[@carlostaffanelly418]

3500/6 is 583, which would remove, like, pseudo legends and most legendaries but not much else... Yeah I think either 3000 or 3200 is where it gets interesting

[@sephikong8323]

When the limit is put at a lower rate that advantages mons with low stats Flygon : OH OH, it's my time to shine !

[@IschmarVI]

Skarmory will be everywhere. Absolutely everywhere. -also, lanturn gang assemble!!-

[@deeznoots6241]

@@IschmarVIMagneton would also be cheap

[@bl00dkillz]

I'm here for the KZbin algorithm, take this like and comment

[@boldknock7436]

Its a glorious day when bkc goes on a tangent for at least 40 minutes. Thanks for the consistent uploads recently, im enjoying this type of content a lot.

[@rayquaza5059]

Could offensive Regice with Explosion be a help to Mixed Offense? Doesn’t it deal with special attackers like Starmie pretty well? That way you could make Snorlax’s life easier by using a second special tank?

[@BKCplaysPokemon]

it's a nice idea, but here are the issues: 1. where do you fit it? 2. you're adding another slow pokemon easily exploited by threats like ttar and meta 3. another pokemon worn down brutally quickly with spikes and sand while struggling to break through walls (good luck exploding on blissey when they can just throw ttar/meta at you) you generally can't fit regice + snorlax. it's one or the other. both are gonna have the same issues (getting worn down absurdly quickly while struggling to leave relevant damage on the opponent)

[@rayquaza5059]

BKC Yea that makes sense.

[@howaboutsomecorn8592]

1st off a question; Isn't this the team style that Camerupt fits best on? It's powerful fire blastsc earthquakes and explosion break Skarm and Blissey and allow its offensive teammates to go wild. It also comes in pretty much for free against Gengar and Zapdos, which you said are huge glaring problems for the style. I don't think it would make Mixed Offense much better but certainly it would help with the issues it has right? 2nd huge HUGE compliment these types of videos are easily my favorites. The way you articulate yourself while tearing this playstyle to shreds is absolute bliss to hear. It also promotes thought and discussion the most out of all your styles of videos in my opinion. Please continue to be the best smog-tuber ever

[@BKCplaysPokemon]

this is exactly where camerupt would fit best on! perfectly spotted. of course, it's going to make the dugtrio and starmie issues even more glaring, but it also gives you a third explosion to work with, so it should help you break the opposing team better. thank you so much!

[@SupremeDirt]

gosh this stuff makes me miss playing adv

[@typhlosion108]

Why not add a lanturn to counter special attackers like Starmie? :^)

[@musique-ef3rz]

Dang if only BKC would come back and see this

[@hattruck8607]

Lanturn is really good at abusing spikes,but it really needs them to be a threat

[@deeznoots6241]

Lanturn isn’t strong enough tbh, gets worn down easily by sand and spikes, and gets murdered by every earthquake user(especially dugtrio which simply traps it) If you are gonna for a grounded electric type your best choices would be Raikou or Jolteon

[@eonshade6297]

Starmie can spam Psychics while Lanturn switches in, and that will hurt, especially if Starmie is offensive.

[@IschmarVI]

@@eonshade6297 starmie doesn't run psychic very often though. But yeah, if it does, it can hit lanturn on the switch-in, meaning that lanturn can probably check it only once.

[@oqo3310]

Don't mind me, just putting timestamps for myself 17:00

[@fungulusmaximus]

#MAKEBKCASUPERSTAR

[@justcallmeleonardo]

I wanted to run a team like this, but after this video I decided to scrap it. I'm not sure what I should run as someone who's only played gen3 ou for a few months

[@yourdagan]

And on your own, you won't figure it out until years of play. The styles which I've found good (as someone who has gotten to Top 10 on the ladder) are: - "Special Offense" which he's mentioned, where it relies upon trapping Blissey with a Beat Up Dugtrio that can survive Ice Beam, and the rest of the team is mostly Calm Mind users. - Baton Pass Offense, specifically passing Agility / Speed Boost or Swords Dance (Smeargle Dragon Dance could also work) - Sand, not just specifically Toxic Sandstorm Spikes (TSS), which relies upon the eponymous combination of passive damage to wear down the opposing team to win---but any team using Tyranitar and where the partners are mostly unaffected by the presence of Sandstorm; these could be balance, offense, or stall, but more to the point, aren't locked into the Big 5 team structure of standard TSS (Tyranitar, Skarmory [Spikes], Gengar [Rapid Spin block], Swampert [physical wall], and Blissey [special wall]) - Stall, both semi-stall and full-stall, although it's debatable what exactly is meant by "stall". Many casuals would call the overpresence of recovery options on a bulky team stall, even when Spikes or Poison don't factor in to the playstyle. But the idea is to build a team that can defensively check everything and survive for as long as possible; against teams that can't heal off damage, like the one in the video, that's enough, although in practice you'll need more of a win condition like Spikes, status, trapping, a wallbreaker, whatever. And that's just uncontroversial strategies. I've used Rain, boosting Bulky Offense, a Snorlax team, and seen Superman (spikes immune team) all used to varying degrees of success. There are a decent amount of options but it is extremely challenging to compose teams from scratch that can handle theoretically everything with little to no weaknesses. Takes a very very long time of experience to do, and even then many players still can't.

[@justcallmeleonardo]

@@yourdagan Thanks, but there's not much new info in your comment for me sadly. Gen3 has kind of been making me go insane (haven't maldede this hard since gen8 vgc with dynamax and the likes) but I could see myself really enjoying this if the team choice alone didn't scare me a lot. Over the course of the past few months I've used a bunch of teams of various styles (some I made, some I've taken online) but I've been strugling nontheless. I'm not that good at pokemon (I'm stuck at 1400 to 1450 elo range in all other metas I've played) but this gen has been something else even by my standards. I've been demorilized by it a lot of times, but I really do want to do better. Thank you for your comment, some things were interesting to see and new.

[@yourdagan]

@@justcallmeleonardo When you're running an offensive team, it requires a lot more game knowledge to play effectively because you are heavily reliant upon predicting the opponents' moves. If you've been running offensive teams with as little experience with the tier as you have, then you're almost bound to fail a lot. The much easier and more optimal playstyle for gen3ou is to incorporate a lot of bulky mons. Stall isn't easy to build, and it requires the patience to regularly deal with games that go well over 40 turns, so I'd also advise against trying to run that. It'd be easier for you to run balance teams that are half defense and half offense until you get the sense of which way you want to go and which strategies you may want to incorporate into your "ultimate" preferred style of play. I would recommend trying a defensive core of Skarmory/Forretress, Blissey, and Milotic to start with, and then play around with the rest of your offensive options from there. This metagame is very difficult to make progress in without Spikes without leaning all the way into hyper offense, which is again tricky to build; Blissey gives you an out against virtually every special attacker in the game; and Milotic has good to decent match-ups against everything that's threatened by Ice and Water coverage and doesn't threaten Water back. Offensively for the rest of the team, you'll want to try: three attacks leftovers Heracross, Salamence/Gyarados, physical Tyranitar, leftovers Metagross, offensive Starmie, offensive Zapdos (with Baton Pass), and maybe Dugtrio and Gengar. These all have enough power and coverage, most of them okay defensive utility as well, to allow you to play without much complication. You didn't say specifically which issues you're having, but a balance team like this provides you a lot of *leeway* and preparedness in the metagame which you will often feel the lack of. This should be simple to run and not too difficult to build.

[@justcallmeleonardo]

@@yourdagan That's nice, but I have run balanced. It doesn't feel all that easy to be honest. Especially on low ladder I keep finding teams designed to beat this kind of skarm-bliss stuff. It's kind of burned me out as the matchup can really screw me. I know it's the best team style, but it hasn't worked for me. I feel a bit stuck. Meaby I'm just not good enough for this meta, I don't know

[@justcallmeleonardo]

@@yourdagan Okay, I've been thinkimg about this team idea but I'm a bit stuck. So I need Tyranitar, Skarmory, Blissey and Milotic but then I'm not sure. The last two slots need: more offensive presence (physicall for sure, special would also be nice tho), a rapid spinner, a non-ground weak rock resist for DD Tyranitar, meaby spin blocking too. It's a lot for only two team slots. Feeling like I need more and more pokemon in my teams is actually a problem I've been experiencing a lot as I learn the meta more through youtube and trial and error. Any ideas? All help is appreciated at this point, tho it feels weird to beg for help lol. Already asked so many people for ideas, never happened in the other metas I play.

[@typhlosion108]

If, gun to your head, you had to rank your preference of the generations what would your ranking look like? (I think you've mentioned this before but forgot what vid)

[@BKCplaysPokemon]

3 > 4 = 2 > 6 = 5 > 1 = 7

[@typhlosion108]

@@BKCplaysPokemon Love u ♥️

[@havoc9469]

@@BKCplaysPokemon wow

[@NishantShankar-j8h]

@@BKCplaysPokemon what did gen 7 do to deserve this

[@teriso1793]

​@@NishantShankar-j8hbe a mess of a meta

[@TheStarswearee]

I have no idea what he talking about but this look interesting

[@arkelon]

So what BKC is saying is that i need to play physical offense instead

[@gnammyhamster9554]

I don't even play advance, why is this so compelling?

[@sethletyran9802]

Ma fav team (mine is, for sur, a bit different) Once you have destroyed a wall like millotic skarm or bliss with boom, tou can procede to destroy the other opposing mons

[@owningguest]

Make BKC a superstar

[@Poo_Brain_Horse]

BKC you seem to be one of the few remaining people from to original few gens to have a decent head on their shoulders. Please do what you can to help guide the Smogon community to make better decisions. Gen 8 saw sleep clause removed, shadow tag and moody unbanned, 5 months of Dugtrio, 8 months of Dracovish, a waste of time Magearna + Cinderace retest, and all of this while Gamefreak piles on more DLC faster than Smogon can test it. The policy review discussions are a joke and seemingly no one is willing to make changes that will let Smogon adapt better to the DLC meta. OU has been trash since day 1 of gen 8. Everything is on fire. Help.

[@Poo_Brain_Horse]

@@manirsrs I've been playing competitive Pokemon since Finch was in elementary school. The retest is bullshit and displays huge issues with Smogon's tiering process in the face of multiple DLC releases. Finch is a cool guy and arguably the only good part of the OU council but that doesn't mean his posts make sense in the grand scheme of things. He's just playing damage control for a frustratingly unsuccessful tiering system.

[@Poo_Brain_Horse]

​@@manirsrs No I'm saying spending a month each suspect testing Magearna and CInderace when the community long ago stated that they felt it was broken is a waste of time ESPECIALLY when in ~two weeks we're going to get a second DLC package that will add over 100 Pokemon to the meta. If Cinderace was to be re-tested it should have been done then. But instead they're wasting time with a test that will obviously end in a ban that they could have used to discuss more pressing issues like Urshifu or Toxapex. This "test everything, one at a time" method is going to lead to Smogon falling behind on the DLC releases. Smogon is already behind and it's getting worse, and no one in charge seems to be willing to even talk about change.

[@Poo_Brain_Horse]

@FullTimeSlacker Yeah and it was a waste. if it was "required" then Smogon needs to update what is or is not "required". It took 75 days to ban Magearna and Cinder for good despite the overwhelming majority of the community being in favor of them getting banned. That's a terrible waste of time. Now, 2-3 weeks before DLC 2 drops we still have a wildly broken meta with stuff like Urshifu running around. Something has to change to make this tiering stuff work more effectively.

[@gligurr]

are you the same person who was writing similar essays in finch’s comment section lol

[@Poo_Brain_Horse]

@FullTimeSlacker It's completely stupid because Pokemon isn't a science. There isn't any single set rule. Once upon a time Hyper Beam Tauros was the best Pokemon in the game. Every generation, or every DLC release, the meta is turned on its head via gameplay or movepool changes. Every time the meta changes drastically past bans and clauses are once again worth looking at to question. This is fine and it's why things get suspected multiple times. However Smogon doesn't have infinite time each generation. Usually you get a small meta bump with the "third" version (or sequel such as BW2) but for the most part a gen sticks around 3 or so years. But in this new gen it's been a year and we've already had shakeups from Home, DLC1, and we're about to get blasted by DLC2 when we STILL have existing suspects that no one wants in the meta. We don't need to spend a month testing EVERY SINGLE THING when the community makes their opinion clear that something isn't healthy. Urshifu, Magearna, and Cinderace don't need a month long test, just fucking ban them so we can maybe enjoy a few weeks of a balanced gen 8 before DLC 2 finger blasts us back into chaos.

[@arkelon]

Why are jolteon and aero so good with a spike down?

[@alexbrittonfilms]

Jolt and aero's stabs are strong against flying types, so you almost always have to check them with grounded pokemon. It makes spamming tbolt/rockslide incredibly safe because the pokemon that would take those attacks well get damaged anyway

[@arkelon]

@alexbrittonfilms thanks man

[@Pandadude3000]

Good video, but have some comments. CB aerodactyl instead of ddtar removes the dug weakness and sand and gives you a fast revenge killer. A guts user in Machamp or Hariyama can replace swampert as a rock resist, which pivots into will-o-wisp from gengar or moltres in addition to twave, and without being vulnerable to hp grass. Jolteon can replace Zapdos to act as a better pivot to opposing Zapdos as well as ice coverage. BP still prevents dug trap and again the speed let's you threaten starmie etc.

[@mapthemultiverse]

Jolt is a nice idea but...without spikes or a dug of your own, how are you possibly going to break through Blissey? Also re. Yama. Yama is actually nice-knock is good support and allows you to make actual progress. But the issue still remains: the lack of synergistic offense means that you are never going to make as consistent progress as, say, a standard TSS team or even something more niche like new wave MagDol. Machamp falls over WAY too easily as a rock resist, esp if you're running guts to blank status.

[@alexbrittonfilms]

These are neat ideas, but I think they each have their issues. Aero is good, but the lack of spikes or trapping support makes it thud into bulkier teams, especially if you're giving up sand as well. Stuff like meta, pert, milotic, and even celebi become way more difficult to break because rock stab becomes way easier to exploit without the support of passive damage. The fighting types are good, but they're also slow and get torn apart by passive damage. If you try and switch in to absorb wisp in sand with a single spike, you take 25%, lose another eighth as they switch out, and then you're pretty much dead if you try and switch in again. So you only get about 1 good attack off before you die while gar/molt are still around. That's also why they're poor rock resists. They're great at switching into Tar, but aero can usually just chip and outlast you, and its other moves (unless you're using hp bug) completely truck you. Jolt is pretty good though, no disagreement there

[@hiei49]

Good vid! Would be completly impossible to fit Cloyster on this team? It has some decent Special attack, boom, spikes and spin. I know it has mayor mayor issues and you cant run everything but just wondering

[@BKCplaysPokemon]

you definitely can slot cloyster on this style of team, and spikes + extra boom is some really nice added muscle. however, it also makes the special attacker issue even worse.

[@hiei49]

@@BKCplaysPokemon Thank you!

[@Loris71734]

commenting helps the algorithm Anyways, I'm definitely not THAT good of an ADV player at all, but the only offenses I really ever have any success with are full physical (w/ or w/out mag) and cm spam.

[@pokeinator7834]

This is how I like to play no skarmory no dugtrio no magneton no blissey no spikes just all out offensive and powerful attacks

[@nilseroangles8483]

I have a adv team that has skarmbliss with double trap in magneton+dugtrio with gengar and ttar as offense I ain't really experimented in adv but i think its a good team

[@carlosmarte428]

Do you have/know of anyone with videos like this for Gen 1-2?

[@zacharykribbs8715]

So we retconning the “why snorlax is good in adv ou” video?

[@tecul1]

in the video he does go over all of the faults of it too

[@ME-kd1ko]

Friendship ended with ADV, GSC is best friend now

[@IschmarVI]

@@ME-kd1ko the main problem with snorlax in gsc is that you can only slap it onto your team once.

[@rubeng9092]

If you use a spdef Wish Jirachi instead of gross you do get less bodied by special attackers right? Although that would hurt your offensive potential. And spikes would annoy the hell out of Jirachi aswell. So yeah tough luck.

[@beefboi9993]

Lanturn would fix the Starmie issue 🤔

[@tecul1]

and worsen the dugtrio issue

[@hattruck8607]

And it needs spikes

[@xtimes3952]

Spiken't Trapn't

[@jimothycool]

i was struggling to build this archetype a few weeks ago and gave up - Perhaps it's not cause i'm bad And it just stinks hehe.

[@Hnui03]

Having problems with Stall? Just use Substitute Baton Pass Zapdos and CB Medicham lol

[@YNOBLITZ]

whats the music in the background of the first couple min ?

[@BKCplaysPokemon]

I showed the video I was playing in the first second of the video for this exact purpose. here's the link anyway kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWebc557msedgtE

[@howaboutsomecorn8592]

poor snorlax :(((

[@pikminologueraisin2139]

why do you like adv that much ?

[@cristianotesta3027]

Nice

[@c2_pikalee73]

When I think abrovation I don't think Pokémon play I think the shulk mains

[@Alandus64]

There are so many abbreviated names like CBB, CTC, BKC, ABR, CBT, BBC. Just some legends in the scene. I'd suggest you watch BBC vs littlekid. most intense game I've ever watched.

[@oofjeff3735]

Imo u got no reason to not use spikes in gen3 ou, being able to chip fat mons like blissey swampert, and others is very nice and the only relevant spiker also gets recovery,

[@BKCplaysPokemon]

there's more than one relevant spiker, and assuming you were referring to skarmory, what recovery does it get?

[@oofjeff3735]

@@BKCplaysPokemon didn't it have roost?

[@SexyPants]

Roost was made in Gen V I believe.

[@oofjeff3735]

@@SexyPants oh shit then I mean rest, it's been a while I forgot.

[@sophiawilliams8650]

@@SexyPants gen IV

[@ME-kd1ko]

"Why Snorlax sucks???"

[@togakhan1274]

Dude play gen 8. Why you not posting the current gen? I feel there is much larger audience for the current metagame than an old one.

[@BKCplaysPokemon]

there's probably an even larger audience for casual pokemon but I don't give a fuck about that either

[@togakhan1274]

@@BKCplaysPokemon Why though? You didn't like gen 8? I mean i personally find it fun. Sorry if i offended you, i was just trying to say that gan 8 content would also be nice to see once in a while but if you don't want to I understand.