The Most IGNORANT Thing I've Ever Seen

[@mike_pertz]

Try Firefighter Furnace: geni.us/firefighter-furnace (use code FIREFIGHTERNOW20 to get 20% off for life)

[@icebergnews886]

Hello, I have a video I'd like you to see we're two firefighters lost their life. How do I get in touch with you? There is a full video and audio

[@micha1195]

PLS More videos!

[@redbaron474]

You need to go back and watch ALL of this - the firefighters actually didn't do ANYTHING at the front of the house, other than stand around.

[@thekingsilverado3266]

Around here they move like that until they have some coffee and sober up. By that time everythings been burned down.

[@Turkeyfry100]

This is my FD. This fire happened over a decade ago. The issue was we had only 1500 gallons of usable water on scene. This is a very rural area at the time and a school was next door with a 6” well and two 3000 Collin above grade water tanks for fire suppression at the school. The 2 hydrants in front of the school were clearly visible and the FD did hook up to them.the issue was the water system was not functioning properly and you would have had to pull a draft off those particular hydrants. Tender operations were started but that took to long and I believed the initial attack engine failed to go into pump, even manually. This house was built in 1920 with heart pine wood that was loaded with sap and burns like gasoline. Plus the officer Battalon chief, was not a good operational leader. Put all that together and the FD had no chance of saving this house. I can say since this fire big changes have happened. This unfortunate is and always will be a black eye to our FD. And even thought I was not on this fire I, we use it to motivate us to not let this happen again.

[@mikejungferman4744]

You don't need to explain yourself sir, good job nobody was injured, screw all these armchair firemen , this is truly a top 2 hardest job to do ,thank you for your service 👏

[@Phoenix-jw1mn]

I've been on a rural department, I appreciate what you guys are doing and the changes made after this. Lessons learned are essential in public safety and I'm glad, even though the house was a loss, that there was a gain from it also. Though I can't volunteer anymore, I appreciate seeing things like this where reflection and changes are made.

[@BW12149]

Rural area fires are the toughest due to access to the fire, lack of water supply, distance from mutual aid companies. And every fire department has one of those days that we’d like to forget. I served 48 years as a firefighter/emt, 5 civilian departments and the US Air Force. The department I retired from had an odd run area. It was centered on two counties, the downtown and suburban area has excellent water supply, but when you crossed the county line where city water hadn’t been run to yet, the citizens used rural water supplies. Due to the lack of hydrants, ponds, pools and other water sources our ISO rating was hurt. As our city expanded, city water slowly moved east and south as more people built houses and business in the rural area. All our engine booster tanks were 1000 gallon, our quints carried 500. We had some real problematic fires that we just couldn’t get enough water supply. We were fortunate, fire departments around us all had tankers and we utilized them, but response times were long. You only can do with what you have.

[@bostonrailfan2427]

so a string of bad luck that wouldn’t happen other times let alone all at once? this made absolute sense and explains why your department didn’t even try: it was too far gone despite the horrible leadership

[@CountCraigula]

The moral of the story. If you live out in the sticks, be careful with fire. Hicks.

[@coldnorthAK]

There are a LOT of volunteer fire depts. So imagine wearing bunker gear in the heat doing the best you can, and you have some onlooker throwing in his two cents. But that onlooker won’t volunteer his time, sweat, blood to become a member of the VFD.

[@Chris-fn4df]

But you did volunteer. The least you could do is know what you are doing. Don't show up to my neighborhood and tell me to stop spraying my neighbor's house and then be an ate-up volunteer department that just pushed me off "your" fire. You didn't sign up to help others, you signed up for the prestige and fun. This is a hobby for you, its our lives. Be good or don't volunteer.

[@alcyone9361]

@@Chris-fn4df My guess is that YOU couldn't do it....or won't if given the opportunity. I did it for 30+ years and my guess is that you are like the guy with the camera who's only talent is running his mouth.

[@ofcv1238]

Brilliantly said; know why statistically minorities have low volunteerism mentality & not representing the community they should serve? Bc exploitation culture of indignant pure dependency mindset on government mentality. Read “Who Really Cares?” Liberal Progressive Liberals claim badge credit for complaining & exploiting government & people. So they five themselves badge credit for bellyaching on social media hours per day but contribute zero dollars.

[@dennisveazey4469]

​@@Chris-fn4dfI think what alcyone9361 means is that he showed up for 30 years and also drug a hose around watching the house burn. 🙄😒

[@TGraysChannels]

Lt. here on a very thinly manned volunteer station. We have fewer than two or three fires a year. Our community of about 5,000 and we have, maybe six volunteers that can wear gear, only three will show up. We do what we can.

[@Outlander34]

Amen brother. I live in a village of 1000. You do what you can with what you have.

[@lookingglass9175]

@@Outlander34regionalize county fire and EMS. No excuse

[@christwohill4569]

"911, do you need police, EMS, or Dave and the guys?"

[@b4ckpain]

😂😂 Dave and the guys.

[@russell2952]

Nobody wants to pay for Dave and the guys to be Dave and his excellently trained and compensated fire fighting crew.

[@stevegibson2255]

@@b4ckpain Wait let me think about it for a moment.....................🤔............🤔Too late, we won't be needing anyone thanks

[@deanhoward4128]

I am a retired Volunteer Fire Captain/ E.M.T & I am also a graduate of the N.M. state Fire academy, which most volunteers are not; in this scenario, yes I would do a 360' degrees size up & depending on water supply & man power available,I would pull at least one hand line on the visible outside Fire, & then a second line inside the building/ house & depending on how far the fire had extended & man power I would like to get a 3rd line on the second story. As for " Randy "& his guys,I would have let them continue spraying water on the fire until my crew could get in place!

[@cafryrmn2550]

I agree. Let those guys spray water on the outside. I would advise them where to play the stream. Keep water on that fire. Once they are moved out of the equation I would utilize their water source and/or manpower to establish a water supply. I’m saying this without knowing the water situation. They can be used to help pull hose, etc. This is a good example of “Train like you play “ and the result of inadequate and lack of training.

[@dogbugler]

Spot on sir. Shalom

[@rayw.cunningham8643]

Dean, a Volunteer Firefighter with a education from a State Fire Academy. That is a big down fall of being a Volunteer Fire Fighter is the lack of education. I spent my time in several volunteer organizations and everything was on the job training. The training consisted of what they wanted you to know and it was just enough so that you could not take that persons position. In TN they have changed the rules of the game and the training has evolved to where you must attend a 16 hr course then a 64 hour course. The 64 hour course is a basic firefighting training. You must complete the training before you can make entry into a structure fire. There is not enough in the video to give you much of an idea as to what type of department is. As Volunteers we do not turn down good help. I definitely agree with you about “Randy and his guys,” 30 seconds tops you could let then know how to use there water stream more effectively and not hurt their feelings. In rural area you need to work with you got especially during the day time. Where I work in EMS you would be lucky to get engine company to respond to a structure fire. For a helicopter I am lucky to just get an engine with a single operator. I like your train of thought its a very commonsense approach that is the basics of where everything starts. Training is the key to being successful on the fire ground. Thank you.

[@deanhoward4128]

@@rayw.cunningham8643 thank you! And I know that since I have retired,the County is doing more training for the volunteers, I hope that in the near future all volunteers could get at least some basic training,I know how the adrenaline rush is and the desire to fight fire is ; but I also know how dangerous it is,when I first started out as a volunteer I didn't have any training but as the department grew I soon realized that we were being called to situations that I had no idea of how to deal with it. I paid for my own training @ the state fire academy which was 200 miles from my own department & soon I became the " training" officer for my small department. Another has changed since then; we now have vehicles going down our highway that are electric with Lithium batteries....from what I've seen, those batteries are hard to put out with just water,it might be better to fight a battery fire like a combustible metal fire,like magnesium or cast aluminum ; but the biggest change I have seen in our states rural volunteer departments is not in actual fire fighting hazards and a big part of why I retired earlier than I wanted & that is POLITICS! we now have younger people in charge of departments strictly because of their popularity & youth! These younger millennial people are giving orders to people that have 10 times the training and experience that the young officers do and it's wrong but this is the world we live in today; incompetent people running our country that have no idea what they are really doing& people dying because of it! I hope that the departments of tomorrow can look back & see how things were done before this " woke" millennial generation took over & realize that the older generations that built these departments knew what we were doing & they should listen & learn & not make the mistakes we did.A department can have the newest equipment with all the bells, sirens & newest brightest L.E.D. lights on every corner of the truck; and if they don't know how to draft from a pond or portable tank or take a class in basic structure fire, then those nice clean pretty Christmas tree trucks are a waste of money! Training is the key for all departments, volunteers & paid, dead firefighters help no one if our local governments don't wake up & realize that " parade" trucks don't save structures or wildlands,wildcards, got to be willing to get some training & get dirty! On one of the last fires I was on, a younger higher officer literally told me to " get out of the way old man you don't know how to run that pump!" I had been on the department more years than he had been alive! And as a Captain there was never a time that I gave someone an order that I myself wasn't prepared to do!& after the fire,I still rolled hoses & washed trucks!

[@TheDesertRat31]

1. In every scenario, you do a 360° size up. No exceptions. 2. A transitional attack is a completely acceptable method, particularly if manpower is an issue and conditions tell you the fire is pretty advanced upon arrival. In a rural setting, this is very likely. The recent UL/NIST experiments show that putting water in a compartment, even when no fire is visible in the smoke will absolutely cool down that compartment and also every other area inside as well, but to lesser degrees, when more distant from the seat of the fire. 3. One major criticism I have is they are not moving with a sense of purpose. Yes, you need to be aware of hazards on the fire ground, and running around is foolish, but I don't see a lot of urgency. This is not the time to train, hose handling training should have already been drilled into the crew.

[@mikefargo4339]

Never forget that a community gets the level of service that they pay for. FD's that are well trained, aggressive, have outstanding command & control and can adapt to any changing situation... train for this, practice this and utilize those principles on every incident (big or small) on a daily basis. Funding, Training & Experience are the keys to success on the fireground.

[@jdaz5462]

That's not true. I live in a city (500k population) that has a HUGE fire budget and the Firefighters are lazy, overpaid, and just suck.

[@mikefargo4339]

@@jdaz5462 You just agreed with me and don't even realize it ! Your FD may have $$... but they are NOT well trained, aggressive or experienced.

[@jdaz5462]

@Mike Fargo nah. We don't get what we pay for. They are well trained, but just don't care because they are overpaid chumps. All 475 of the firefighters.

[@cafryrmn2550]

@@jdaz5462I’m curious why you feel this way. Have you had bad experiences with your city department? What have you witnessed? It’s too bad that you feel this way. If these firefighters are in fact lazy and unmotivated, that needs to change. It has been my experience that the few unmotivated make the good look bad.

[@rayw.cunningham8643]

Mike you have nailed it. No matter how much is in the budget for a fire department it comes down to the leadership and training. If the leadership is fired up and Gung Ho you will have that agressive, with the leadership out front and leading from the front. Know matter what it all starts at the top of the chain of command and goes to the firefighter in the backseat of the engine. The Chief started at the same place as the nozzle man in the back seat of engine company. When leaders forget where they started and are not willing to ensure that the man on the nozzle is trained properly then it is time to go home and look for a new job. If you know how to say “Would you like fry’s with mama’” McDonald’s is always hiring.

[@pb2959]

"They made things worse. " Putting water on a fire NEVER makes things worse!! I mean a structural fire, not a tanker of petroleum obviously.

[@JukeboxJoeB]

I have no experience whatsoever with firefighting, but I'll tell you one thing. I used to work for many years on a volunteer ambulance squad in the early 90's, and the majority of men and women I was working with barely knew what the heck they were doing. They were people who genuinely cared about helping others, but as a result of their being little to no qualifications to join and to remain a member, poor and limited training, poor leadership, and outdated equipment, their skills and abilities were greatly limited. So I would assume many volunteer fire departments suffer from similar issues.

[@alexcummings9517]

From a firefighter standpoint, we would have engaged this fire in a transitional attack. 1 exterior team to the rear of the structure to quickly knock down the outside fire and cool the interior rooms that they could reach as 1 interior team made their way into the structure to fight fire inside from the front of the building. If a ladder truck was available, it would be setup on the B side in the driveway as the roof appears to have already vented but if it wasn't, the ladder truck would cut some ventilation openings. Once the extrior was knocked down, the exterior team would transition to an interior attack through the C side (rear side).

[@Toto-br7po]

It's not dangerous to put water in the house by the exterior during an interior attack ?

[@Jimmythefish577]

@@Toto-br7po no, what’s dangerous is to let the outside of the structure continue to burn whilst you have people inside. The only thing that will ever make this type of situation better is by making the fire go away, and the only way to do that is by putting water on it. Coordinate the fire suppression activities and it should be as safe as is practical. Putting the fire on the exterior out isn’t going to affect anything going on inside the structure.

[@Toto-br7po]

@@Jimmythefish577 Thanks 👍

[@CymruEmergencyResponder]

Why does the US still do venting by walking about on the street of cutting holes? It’s an outdated practice that isn’t done anywhere else.

[@alexcummings9517]

@@CymruEmergencyResponder Both vertical (roof) and horizontal (doors/windows) ventilation work under the right circumstances to remove heat and smoke from inside the structure. You want to remove heat and smoke for 2 main reasons: 1. firefighters can make a better interior attack and 2. to help save life inside the structure if victims are still inside. Ventilation is a very precise and strategic fire operation and must work hand-in-hand with interior attack crews, if you vent too late, the attack crew is going to have a difficult time inside with the tremendous heat and smoke conditions, vent too early and the fire makes major grwoth inside the structure.

[@howarddaduck9661]

Yes, the first guys knocked down the visible fire but didn't hit the actual seat of the fire and it appears the first FF crew is trying to do just that. Also, NIST has done the research/studies on "pushing fire" and you're right, it's the heat that moves. Reset/transitional attack is a good tactic.

[@LeadLunatic]

So glad your back! Hope everything is going well. Just want to say thank you for all of your videos, you’ve helped tremendously. Helped me get out of private AMB into a volley spot, then a career spot, and now the dream department. Huge thanks again. Love the vids and the info.

[@jumpwer3873]

I just wanted to say thank you so much for the videos on the interview process. I got into the reserve program at the fire department where I go to college and I’m enjoying every minute of training.

[@zoirl]

That sounds big! High hopes and congratulations to you

[@cafryrmn2550]

Good luck, have fun and be safe.

[@54321mas]

Thank you for your detailed analysis! So many people are quick to arm chair quarterback while hiding behind their cell phones.

[@gatormurphy9688]

I'm a retired firefghter. You can sit and armchair quarterback a video like this all day, but until you know all the factors that were in play, you're just flapping your gums. Sometimes you can't see key elements or know facts that could change you your attack should be handled. Two things I will say though....looks like they had a charged line the entire time of the video, and just to clarify, yes, you CAN push fire.

[@thoughtful_criticiser]

I think that I would have not stopped Dave and the guys from doing their thing until we were ready to take over. What they were doing was keeping it cool and as long as they had their own water, they weren't in the way. Once we have set up, then it's time to thank them and stand them down.

[@lp2025]

UL FSRI did a fairly in depth study that included research into water "pushing" fire and found that it does not. Yes, a fire stream will entrain air which can provide some additional oxygen to a fire, but in terms of causing a fire to grow substantially or move to other areas of the structure the research showed it doesn't work that way and water certainly does not push fire that way.

[@ironsurvival7011]

As a firefighter paramedic I don’t need to be told by IC what to do when I have a charged line and Fire visible from the structure. Get water on the Fire asap.

[@aydenharrington9826]

If they are so ignorant then why doesn't he join the fire service himself

[@gewurzgurkenkaiser2575]

Smartest comment i read in the last two weeks

[@kallen8757]

You can’t push fire with water. (*except class B fires) You can change the flow path in a structure with water. The amount of air that’s entrained by a hose stream can be up to 7500 CFM, which is significant. When you change the air flow, you change where the heat goes.

[@urbaninterfaceliving4273]

just a thought, from 3 years on a type 6 engine with mixed paid and volunteer department, We had our job it is what we did, stick to what you know, do your job, and do it well, nothing wrong with cross-training but in Florida wildland fire is a department all of its own, the volunteers are crossed trained to be support firefighters off fire season and wildland firefighters during fire season, we back up the paid members with water supply advancing hose outside air pack replacements and cooldowns, When it comes to wildfires it is all hands-on, when you have a fire that is active you keep the fire in its place you do not let it propagate you use the water to keep the fire in its place an active fire has already done what it is going to do, you stop forward movement and then you work on the fire after you look for victims pets and any hazards that may explode and kill firefighters, just a thought .

[@jonclem2269]

What? Sounds like a whole lot of babble. Please tell me more about how you only showed up to your annual pancake breakfast and wore your dept shirt around your hick town.

[@ShanRaffel]

Well said. It is very easy to criticise the firefighters actions. In my experience, the vast majority of firefighters want to do their best. If their actions fall short of the "best" then the first place to examine is the quality of the training they have been given. Often firefighters are not provided with quality training that is in line with the latest knowledge. Have a good look at the focus of the Chief, the training budget, the currency, and the quality of the training provided. If this passes the test, then you may be entitled to criticise the firefigthers.

[@Logan-eo1zq]

Fun fact: in Farmington Maine captains have white helmets and the reflective spots on the helmets are gray. also at 0:41 you hear that alarm, thats a pass alarm

[@my2cents945]

Dave and his guys were kicking butt. Don't forget they were in tee shirts with no air packs. not like they could go inside thru smoke. You didn't start this video at the FD arrival. They funbled around out front before this video starts. That's where the frustration begins.

[@GMan-yv8cb]

HEY -- Good to see you back !! A couple quickies-- -- I wasn't there -- I Don't know what this FD's situation is (paid, volunteer,staffing, SOPs/SOGs, etc..) MY training and experience would lead me to say... -Quick exterior blitz on the rear exterior fire -2nd handline in front door Some of these other comments are questionable! DECK GUN ?? How do you blast a deck gun from the street-- [FRONT] to hit fire in the BACK ?? PUSHING FIRE-- Yes, an interior hose line CAN push the fire. Neighboring town (paid 'professionals') had a search team in front room of a taxpayer, nozzle team brought the line up, started working towards the front, opened-up and 2 FFs got out of the burn center 4 months later.

[@hihfty]

You can push heat like he stated. In a sense you could make a cold room incredibly hot and “preheat” the room in a sense. But because the room is now closer to its ignition point it is easier to burn under those conditions.

[@georgemartin7717]

Lots to address here. What kind of truck did they have? Was it a Quint, Ladder truck, Pumper truck or Engine? HOW many FF in total were on scene, MOST apparatus carry four FF's plus and Officer. Was there a hydrant nearby and were they able to hook up to it or do they have to Draft and transport water from a remote location? Usually, the second Engine in makes the connection. The fire vented itself so breaking out that window COULD HAVE allowed a good angle on the fire to push the heat,gases and flames out of the engulfed area and into the area thats been vented, therefore making the attack much more effective if using a cone instead of a solid stream. It appears that only ONE OFFICER was on scene with bare minimal manpower. With NO RESCUE TEAM STANDING BY and leaving the other 3 in the back unsupervised. He had no choice but to keep his interior attack team out! You also had no safty officer on scene. Can't forget that the avarage truck holds about 1,500 - 2,000 gallons of water and one hose line, at 80psi pumping 800 - 1,000+ gpm will drain that tank in a few minutes..2 hand lines will drain it in SECONDS so now your deep into RESOURCE MANAGEMENT! Where was the RIT Team? They had none due to lack of man power. I assume that they already called for another engine or at least for Mutual Aid/Man Power. Under the conditions that were seen in the video, I'd NEVER send an attack line through the front due to the lack of man power and and lack of a Safty Offiicer's oversight. That one lonely Officer's sole responsibility, at that time, was to THE SAFTY OF HIS MEN and NOT so much the house UNTIL the second out or Mutual Aid crews arrived to launch a very aggressive attack from the "A" side in coordination with the " C " side. There's absolutely no question that those civilians on that hand line helped those men out by knocking down those flames with water and the steam generated by it while having no PPE. You KNOW those civies were feeling the heat BUT they stood their ground. That Officer seemed to have good situational awareness and he sure wasn't stupid considering the resources he had at that exact moment in time!

[@rockymountainhomesteadangela]

Nice to see a comment on here that takes these things into consideration. I'm on a rural fire dept and we have zero fire hydrants in our city. We draft. Plus as a volunteer station, the majority of the time the same 6 people show up to calls and that's it, on a good day. That 6 is including our fire chief and assistant chief. Our mutual aid is 20 minutes away. I learned in Academy firefighters will put their safety first, as long as the home is already evacuated. There were obviously limited resources and manpower in this situation.

[@Jon651]

From what little I could see, the civilians on the hand line prior to the arrival of the FD were doing a fine job of cooling off the back door, but not much else. They weren't getting any penetration to the interior of the fire or upstairs, and frankly a wide pattern spray drags in a lot of air with it, which could be why there are people claiming they did more harm than good. Now I'm not claiming that. My only claim is I don't have all the information, especially about the caliber of the FD and their tactics, and even something as basic as water supply. Now let's look into the water supply question - the original video showed a WELL DRILLING TRUCK and this appears to be a RURAL AREA. If they were drilling a well in a rural neighborhood, does that mean there is limited water supply/no hydrants? Frankly, many departments take a slower approach to fighting fires such as this one if they know they cannot support their interior crews with an adequate water supply, and we all know how fast you can tap out your onboard supply even with a single handline. And with it known there are no trapped victims, putting crews inside moves further down our to-do list. Our options quickly become extremely limited when you don't have the water to support your plans.

[@Beautylifestyle222]

My fire department didn’t check on us to make sure we were ok complete negligence every man for himself

[@chuckyufarley2999]

I'm from a small farm town with a volunteer FD. While I'm sure they've managed to put out a few fires over the years, it's not a good look when two thirds of the businesses ACROSS THE STREET from the fire hall have burned to the ground over the last 30 years.

[@antonfloor344]

Man I don’t know what’s the deal in the US, but this type of fire here in Holland you pull 3 lines out immediately.

[@AMCguy]

If I were first crew on scene. If equipped with a deck gun, Id hit that outside blaze down while tagging a hydrant and getting supply set. Otherwise roll up, tag and establish supply while doing the 360. And then get an outside line to the fire. Once a second squad shows, they are going interior.

[@CCTViswatching]

I swear your like the donut operator of firefighting, appreciate the videos

[@Buster-Olney]

Donut operator puts out more content. Mike has higher quality stuff.

[@CCTViswatching]

@@Buster-Olney ehh they’re both pretty high quality lol, I mean donut has more editing and what not in his videos so I’d say they have a higher quality

[@BanjoZZZ]

​@@CCTViswatchingdonut used hi tech crime scene recreation software

[@mrhellcats2.069]

@@BanjoZZZlol donuts are the best

[@newyorker3766]

Many of the fire departments are volunteer only and in our area now almost every fire has to be called as mutual aid due to lack of new members. As older members pass on they are not being replaced with new applicants. People here just have other interests it appears. I think your videos are very good. Thank you for sharing. Having been a volunteer since 1978 until recently when medical reasons made me become a social member instead. I have seen numerous times people at the scene have put down firefighters due to not understanding the situation and having no knowledge of firefighting. Just need to ignore it and do what you are supposed to be doing.

[@Jimmythefish577]

So many ‘experts’ commenting on how they could’ve done it so much better.

[@Moneymike29]

they literally did

[@elkapolee3058]

We do need to address this type of response from firefighters.... I've been seeing alot of videos with the same response from different fire departments

[@BDP0408]

Happy New Year Mike! Glad to see you're back. I'd like to thank you for all your videos, especially the interview ones as I start the recruit academy on the 23rd and couldn't have gone this far without your help!

[@mike_pertz]

Happy new year! And good luck in the academy!

[@mesocyclone2004]

In the early 1990’s I was a paid EMT by a hospital to staff a small town ambulance. I was then asked to be a volunteer fireman. Very little training, but our philosophy was to get water on the fire. Another member and I went to apply to be full time Fireman/Paramedic, but during the physical I was found to have a cardiac problem that not only prevented getting that job, but I couldn’t be a EMT anymore.😢

[@i.ak.1684]

What's also true however is that too many firefighters feel too manly to fight fire from the exterior. The NIST studies from Long Island showed us that what we intuitively think is the right way to attack a fire is also the right way; a transitional attack. If you see that fire on the outside, fucking attack it. You can use two guys for that, to attack what they see from the outside. At the same time, let others stretch another line and go interior on this, as not to have the fire run away on the inside and do a primary search. I agree it's ignorant and dumb to watch it burn. Before the fire is under control, have as many lines stretched as possible and get them active as soon as possible. All that talk about pushing the fire, victim survivability decreasing through exterior attacks and what not turned out to be false. ATTACK THE F ING FIRE!!

[@NowItsYourCraft]

I'm a volunteer firefighter in Austria, here would 2 "B"-hoses attack from the outside, 2 "C"-hoses and perhaps a hydroshield protect the neighbors house. One attackgroup would attack from the inside. Now my question: Are attacks from the inside in these kind of houses possiple or are the likeley to collapse? Collapsing buildings aren't a real issue here because we build mostly out of stone and concrete. Thanks for an answer.

[@paulrathbun82]

As a General Contractor, I say pull up a lawn chair with the homeowner and start reviewing ideas for a total scrape and rebuild!

[@tbs10916301]

what you have to remember is that it is not the fire departments emergency, it is the homeowners.

[@cplcabs]

You have to remember its the fire departments job to sort that emergency out otherwise there is no point in having a fire department.

[@dougcrysdale2045]

You could go and help,instead of standing there mouthing off.Perfect example of someone who knows nothing about firefighting yapping without thinking.

[@K.SHEPHERD]

I've been learning so much from these analysis videos, thank you very much for putting the time and effort into them, it's given me a huge boost of knowlege since joining the Fire Service

[@Jhihmoac]

I have no idea... This is from an old video, dating back at least a decade ago where the neighbors had the fire under control with a pump truck from a well drilling establishment while waiting for the fire department to arrive... When they finally _DID_ get to the scene, they promptly told everyone to back off, pump truck and all, while each of them sat around doing nothing, deciding how to best plan an attack, while the initial fire in the kitchen in the back, flared right up again, eventuality taking the entire house with it!

[@ethang6735]

Couldnt agree more with the two handlines. My department is volunteer, with 12 riding members and 1 fire police. We are lucky if we have 4 guys on scene right at the start. The only thing I dont like about what these guys did is i dont understand why they did that weird half assed transitional attack through the window like that. I feel like they couldve shown a bit more hyussle there too but I wasnt there, and I dont know what they were seeing so who knows. Totally agree a handline to the back to start hitting it, and with 4 guys a second line to the front door to start working from unburnt inwards. With my department we probably wouldnt have the water (no hydrants only drop ponds and draft points) or man power for two lines at the start so we probably wouldve opted to just go around back from burnt to unburnt until mutual aid departments started showing up. And now a quick story to demonstrate just how rural we are out here (Upstate NY Adirondack region) my first fire was a brush fire that caught the corner of a house on fire, and it was me and a driver first on scene. He charged the line i hit the outside of the house. My second fire was a vehicle fire which had also caught the porch on fire, it was myself, that same driver, and two chiefs first on scene, driver charged the line and I had a chief backing me up from about 30 feet back while I put the house and truck out. My point is i think people forget what a luxury it is to have large numbers in your local fire departments, and to have those numbers right at go on a scene like this. (and yes, 4 people on a truck seems like a miracle in todays world)

[@tjsylla]

Hah.. I just got in an argument with some YT firefighter about "pushing" fire with water... I said you can't push fire if you're getting water on it effectively.. Thermodynamics 101.

[@dave1135]

The fire looks to have started from the barbeque on the charlie side, it climed up the deck, got in the eves and into part of the first floor and the second floor, possible balloon construction? A good 360 by the officer would have located the fire location. They did knock it down a bunch with the hose in the bravo side, proving you can push the fire out. Me personally, I'd have one crew knock down the exterior fire, while a second crew goes in and knock down the interior fire and mop up. I wrote this at the start of the video, I see at the end you gave the same assessment. Good officers can make a difficult job easy with proper crew management.

[@lindanwfirefighter4973]

Good to see you are back. I can tell by looking at you that you have been sick. I hope you are felling better.

[@michaelfrancis7072]

Coming from the UK, I'm always amazed how long it takes firefighters in the US to get water on the fire. Over here they have water on the fire less than a minute after arriving, often quicker than that.

[@jackwright9960]

Amen you are appsolutly right

[@robertdinterman758]

Being a former professional FF here in the US, it's because there is always someone wanting to reinvent the wheel. There are guys always wanting to do fancy hose deployments, hose rolls, etc. Just take the nozzle and put water on the fire.

[@jackwright9960]

Amen I was a volunteer ff and in America I said to say I was also a emt and there was more political things going on in the fire department and its in all the entities in this country and that is why this country is so messed 😢 up! Come on somebody! It's the truth anyway 🤷 😌 🤪!

[@averteddisasterbarely2339]

Read the comment from @turkeyfry100 ......that was his department (it's the first comment) and he explained the constraints they faced !

[@KathrynsWorldWildfireTracking]

When spraying water into a room "it is the heat that moves." More specifically - does that mean the hot gases? (Some are invisible, some are in the smoke.) I think it may be helpful that the phyics concerning drafts - are taught to all fighters. Fire is a slave to the wind - and a draft is wind inside a structure. Everything from proper extinguishing, to avoiding deadly scenarios like explosions and backdrafts - depend on solid understandings (of draft behavior). Many tragic LOD deaths were due to simple mistakes like opening back doors when firefighters are inside the structure's front. This may not need to be expensive - classes could be assembled by physics professions/volunteers, and turned into KZbin videos as study courses. Thank you, as always, for your analysis and upload! I learn a lot from channels like this.

[@thefunctionalhuman]

If it's been confirmed that there isn't a rescue to be made, I couldn't make a good argument for going interior on this structure. Smoke is coming from many parts of the house and the attic is already involved. Risk - very high life threat to firefighters going interior. Reward - very low. The only thing to save would be property, which is very valuable to the occupants but not as valuable as the lives of the firefighters.

[@joewilson9744]

Damn, I just love armchair and youtube firefighters, they know everything. I've put up with them during my 45 years as a volunteer firefighter/emt. Gotta love 'em!

[@rockymountainhomesteadangela]

I agree. Some of the comments are pure ignorance

[@MegaMantim]

My training 40 years ago taught that water pushes fire which I come to learn is a broad assumption...Through out my decades of experience its the Steam conversion that murders any 'pushed' fire...A quick dash from the outside takes out a ton of BTU' and expediates rescue...

[@Madmac96]

We as a people are very quick to comment on thing's we know nothing about, even when it makes us look stupid. I'm sure it's been that way since man has existed, but the internet has magnified this exponentially.

[@BanjoZZZ]

I used to know nothing about flying, but now I've been a KZbin pilot for two years.

[@lizardfirefighter110]

Yes, I agree. Making entry through a window opening on the C side would be time consuming. Best to attack the main body of the fire first, while crews work on making entry from the C side with another line. Here is the basic concept. It is used by the military. The big guns shell the enemy and break them down, then the infantry attacks what ever is left of the enemy. Same goes for fire as the enemy. In this case the position of the engine made it difficult to use a deck gun, and who knows if they had a continuous water supply. It is a judgement call to use a deck gun off of tank water. For example if you are flowing 500 gpm from a deck gun from a 500 gallon tank - you have only a minute of operation. However, a substantial knock- down may be achieved with 125 gallons being delivered in 15 seconds. This is a powerful rate of delivery. Then after the knock down is made the tank water of the remaining 375 gallons can supply attack lines flowing about 100 gpm each. With one attack line the tank could supply water for 3 minutes and 45 seconds. So as a Commander you have to ask if this is viable option with your understanding😢 of when the attack engine will be supplied with hydrant water or from a tender. Caution: Most deck guns have settings up to a 1,000 gpm. But the maximum flow from the tank will be determined by the plumbing from tank to pump, and gravity (the water level in the tank)( .434psi for every foot). As you can see the intake pressure becomes lower as the water level comes down. The operator must be careful that there is no pump cavitation while supplying a deck gun with tank water.

[@edloeffler9769]

Very well said.

[@Jimmythefish577]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@noahmocettini9809]

I passed my NREMT on December 5. I am now working for a BLS/private ambulance company. I'm looking to get into the wildland side this season but if I don't I will start taking fire classes at my local JC in the fall

[@sunshinefireboulder]

Where are you located?

[@Alice_Typhon]

Wildland is fun, you should do it. Most wildland stations are understaffed so you'd get in quick.

[@dwayne7356]

Not being there, but judging from the wind and venting out the back, I would have given thought to pushing the fire from the front out the back. However, the fire is already on two floors so any entry in the front will not have the immediate desired effect because you will only get water and steam on one fire floor. I am also wondering about water supply and manpower issues too. The first fire attack was from a well drilling truck. I come from the city full of hydrants. Another tactic I would consider, but it would depend on local experience and water supply again, just blitz the fire with a 2 1/2 overwhelm and knock it down. Too often that tactic is forgotten because we are condition to pull that 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 and attack from the inside.

[@lovepeace8918]

Honestly the best way to eliminate this fire is to fight the fire with fire, so it burns out quickly, by spraying lighter fluid and gasoline inside the first floor, after breaking the windows, then cover the roof and side of structure with few hundred gallons of Gasoline, lighter fluid or Kerosine. If you got propane tanks, just throw inside the front door of the house and run before it goes boom ! Then after the roof collapses and walls are burned down, that is when you use water, to put out the smoldering material. Controlled burning of residential houses is good for the environment, economy, and insurance companies pay out cost to rebuild anyways if it's completely burned to the ground. Everyone loves a good fire, and no one likes to see water wasted ! Plus it makes for good ratings for the evening news.

[@lovepeace8918]

Neighbors can and should also toss full trash bags into the burning house and save the City time for their garbage truck crew. Very good way to incinerate the neighborhoods trash instantly !

[@reluctantheist5224]

The idea in all firefighting is to get the orange and/or burney bits out. To get there the fastest with the mostest ( with what you've got ) Well done to Dave .

[@goosubux]

David Decker's channel shows excellent control of a scene and a well trained and prepared crew.

[@arribaficationwineho32]

When you say they don’t know wht to do…..SPRAY water!

[@Beandiptheredneck]

If this is a volly department I suggest giving those well drilling boys an application 😎 they may not have had all the training and the knowledge but they had a willingness and motivation to help any way they could. We need more of that

[@johnphillips2426]

Give one to the mouthy narrator also

[@brianwilson8119]

I agree withe transitional attack idea. I also think the "redhat" knocking out the window probably didn't help matters...just introduced fresh O2 to the interior before knocking the bulk of the flames down in the rear

[@bellesterbeatty3571]

The peanut gallery needs to be quiet. These are trained officers that knew what they are doing. You know it all folks, should take over and do it yourselves. Thank the Firefighters for putting their lives on the line for your bacon you were cooking and couldn't control.

[@mpower387]

It's a 1 1/2 story single family detached, first line goes to the front door to protect the interior stairs and primary egress. Officer does a 360 while the crew is stretching the first line to the front door. Fire is on the number 3 exposure, seems to be upstairs, enter the front and make your way to the seat of the fire. If you only have one line, quick check and knock down of anything on the first floor then proceed up the stairs and knock it out. If you have the initial manpower, two hose lines to the front door, one in and upstairs one in on the first floor to protect the stairs and the team upstairs. If you have a good team that knows each-others moves, the hose team heads for the fire and the officer will do a quick primary search, all structures are considered occupied until we confirm that they aren't.

[@maddog3080]

Our local volunteer fire dept has a perfect record. They haven't lost a basement yet

[@TheoneGodfather]

I’ve heard it said that if you want a fire put out don’t call the fire department.

[@Whitleyfilms]

Working through a safe approach can be just as important as saving lives and property.

[@rockymountainhomesteadangela]

Exactly. Especially with limited manpower, which is what it looks like on this scene.

[@ChrisMerriman-lu9cu]

I'm an inactive firefighter but I will agree with you 100% that your suggestion is correct. It does make me remember what our instructor taught me way back in 86 that yeah fire can be pushed by water and diameter of hose would matter but you could have a small campfire and then take a garden hose even and put the fire out but you could at the same time spread the fire further you want to get right on top of it but at the same time you can still push the fire. Using a fog stream would probably be best in the beginning once you got the fire completely out then go back to jet stream and maybe back your pressure off, the pressure coming out of the hose by the momentum of water being pushed through the hose will have a lot of air that will explode out of the nozzle and anything at the end f the nozzle will be pushed away for several feet before it's actually put out. And of course I know what happens when you have a fog stream for just a few moments meaning like one or two minutes you could develop steam burns which I have one and that's when I was a rookie. I had the same scenario happen to me back in 1997 and '95 with a two-story structure 4 Bedroom top floor left side of the house towards the back a bedroom was on fire. In 95 it was a large two-story garage for farm equipment on an Old farm and I could see the fire from outside on the opposite side of this big barn that was about 90 to 100 ft long 40 ft Wide so both fires were fought well the one fire the garage fire was fought from the opposite side of where the fire was. The bedroom fire initially I got on the scene first before the fire department did and I fought it from outside not only did I not have my fire gear with me but no other firefighters had got to the scene yet so I fought the fire from outside since the window was already busted out from the heat the fire crews went ahead and pulled the hose into the house went upstairs and fought it directly went right into the bedroom.

[@XSneekystrikex]

Tulsa Fire are some amazing guys and gals! They BUSTED ass! Saved my childhood home when my next door neighbors house caught on fire! They were there and had hoses out before we could even pull out phones out! The trucks and ladders came out and they got that shit DONE!! TFPD IS THE BEST!!

[@loganv0410]

First: Thank Dave et al and have them keep spraying Second: don't gaggle up. _Somebody_ give an order to back up Dave w/ a hand line (2 guys), order a 2nd hand line pulled (1 guy) and then do a more detailed 360. Act Decisively!

[@Craiglife777]

I was a USAF trained firefighter, years later I was working as a medic on an ambulance in a big city. We were driving through the hood after a call and I looked over and saw a house the was billowing smoke out the windows and front door. We didn't know if there were people in there or not so we immediately called it into our dispatch and went to work. I ran up to the front door that had a half glass in it, and I noticed there was a garden hose right there with a garden nozzle on it, hooked to a hose bib. I found a big rock and stood back and threw it through the glass in the door and it looked like hell from the flames inside. I remember my training in firefighter school, if you have limited resources to fog the ceiling and let the steam cool the fire and start to put it out. So I crouched below that door and just held that nozzle in a fog pointing it up at the ceiling, it was too hot to look inside so I just stayed crouched down for like 5 minutes until the city fire showed up. That garden hose damn near put that fire out!!! Whats sad is that I got no thanks from the city fire 'hero's' because I put the fire out, using a garden hose, and they didn't. Like I stole their thunder.....luckily no one was in the house.

[@realtruth716]

Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face"

[@rottmanthan]

our local FD is volunteer and they are pretty quick. we lost our old house to a fire but being as old as it was and seeing how cold and windy it was that night we all knew there was no saving it.

[@patriot6350]

Once upon a time, we had house fire balloon construction. The owner was retired naval firefighter (ships) and went completely ballistic when we opened the roof. He had to be restrained. My observation is volunteer and if you don't like it JOIN make a difference.

[@mrsqueakthecat.8061]

As someone who lost their home to a fire and knows who is in the fire department that showed up. The overwhelming number of firefighters are volunteers and are horribly undertrained. Most fire chiefs know it and are frustrated with the sad reality that they have almost no workable budgets to do real hands-on training for their crews. Too many fire departments are small and rely heavily on hand-me-downs for everything from the bigger urban centers that have money.

[@thomashall6937]

You get what you pay for, if you have a volunteer fire department and you don’t pay or require them to train to the standard, and if you don’t pay for the required man power then those guys can only get one part of it at a time.

[@davemarshall706]

Dave and his guys did a good job. It is the right thing to do. The fire dept failed in size up and tactics.

[@chadbrown5353]

Knocking out a window is letting more fuel (oxygen) to the fire! All around the tactics sucked

[@hookedonthebay3890]

I remember a quote from an oldschool thought in the IFSTA book talking about real firefighters fighting fire from the front and not the back where the stigma was proven not true.

[@RB-vr7mq]

I have never been a firefighter, but I think there is a comparison to the military to be made. You will only ever fight as you train, and lessons learned in training are far less painful than those learned in combat. I cannot speak to tactics for firefighting, but yeah having a sense of purpose or not is readily apparent when observing others at work. You can tell if they have it or not.

[@emmettburns7586]

That yellow smoke pushing out the front is a strong indicator that the structural members themselves are on fire. In a modern truss framed home that translates to possible roof collapse and a defensive strategy from the outside, keeping everyone out of the house. That is most likely why they didn’t go through the front door and fight from the unburned side.

[@robertlucht4657]

I am not a firefighter, but I have watched a lot of these videos. One thing that strikes me is that large city fire departments, like NYC, respond with an incredible amount of equipment, and then you see 40 or 50 men standing around just waiting to be told to do something. Many times you seen, multiple ladder trucks with the ladders up in the air, but no water on the fire at all. many times I have seen fires that have a minor amount of smoke from one end of a large building, but after about 30 minutes of stand around stand, the building is fully involved, then they finally start work.

[@scottpennington8225]

I'm glad to find this video. I've watched a lot of these where it's left me scratching my head trying to understand something they do or don't.

[@jefferyroberts7769]

Shocking if my crew acted like that they would be looking for a new job

[@2adamast]

Indeed, firefighting is about politics/jobs first

[@coleharris2590]

If I had to guess it’s probably a volley dept. I don’t necessarily disagree with the tactic to move to the back and I also agree what you’re advise would be with splitting crew and pulling a second line but if I had to give my two sense I probably would of recommend that they put more pep in their step and from an officers perspective, if the officer did his 360 or had just walked behind the house, he’d have seen that the back compartments in the down stairs had already flashed and wouldn’t warrant a vent until proper water and cooling has been done. I also think just from my own perspective and no disrespect but the yellow hats probably lacked confidence and or are newer and because of that just lacked their own critical thinking with trying to just rely only on the officer for guidance. Other than that they gave a good effort so good job to them! If anything it’s a good learning experience as much as every call we go on:)

[@kennethpadgettflightparame3548]

“Volley Dept.”? Before I judge, what do you mean?

[@rickw28]

@@kennethpadgettflightparame3548 Volunteer.

[@jayfish6114]

You fight fire from the inside 🔥 push it out. The guy's that helped before the fire department were great 👍

[@joshuaobelenusable]

David Decker from Newark fire department is another great example of how leadership is a great tool. He has plenty of videos on youtube showing how tight his team works and how quickly they can asses a situation and develop a plan of attack.

[@Steve-cu1ye]

😂😂😂😂he does a 100mph to race to fire and parks his car so you have great view from dashcam.... and tells firefighter not to park in front of his car... his guy are moving hose so he has good vedio for you tube

[@wxvyd9653]

Happy New years. I just finished my fire course for college. I was able to make sense of a lot of topics in class because of ur vids. Nice to see u back ;)

[@Og-Judy]

I still chuckle the woman thought she was gonna walk into the kitchen and rescue the bacon which she left on the stove started the fire in the first place. Bless her lil old heart 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@jeremysemprit820]

It really does just come down to the level of training, and size of the department. Some departments just don’t have the funds and resources that others do. In my department; response times are quick, you’ll have 4 engines on scene within 5 minutes. First engines going interior through the front to find the seat of the fire (obviously situational dependent.) 2nd will secure water supply and pull a second line in if necessary, 3rd will serve as a safety team, 4th will pull a line to the back of the house. Many people like to criticize tactics, but have no knowledge of what’s actually going on, so their opinion brings no value to the conversation. It’s hard to tell what’s right or wrong when you don’t have all the facts, people just have to be open minded and understand that a fire scene is controlled chaos. Risk a lot to save a lot, risk little to save little.

[@nhingy]

I don't usually comment, but look at the change of the smoke pattern in the division 2 window, once he took the window. It definitely added a flow path and accelerated the fire. The picture after shows the aftermath.

[@Tedd-E-Bare]

1. 1st on Engine assume command and 360 size up 2. stretch a 2 inch to Charlie and transitional attack 3. second engine supply line bring crew in pull back up line. 4. first due ladder primary search thru Alpha side. 3rd Engine set ladders to second floor windows 4. 4th Engine RIT. Lots of work to do here.

[@snugglylovemuffin]

this is why I love your videos. nothing those guys did in the beginning made anything worse, they just didn't have the means to get far enough interior to douse the fire and cool it off. Ironically, it's the ignorance of the onlookers who don't understand that putting water on the fire isn't just what puts the fire out if you don't have extensive overhaul and mop-up efforts, that structure WILL rekindle, as we see in this video; this is by no means intended to be an attack on their efforts or their concerns. department needs to learn to hustle; like you said it seems like the ambivalence or lack of hustle is because of a lack of a coherent plan on a developing situation. They could have used no less than one additional hose line specifically to make attach and on the charlie side. FWIW, we should never forget that the first and arguably most important job for firefighters is customer service.

[@rjentz]

The jokers in the background are the real pros, hahahaha.

[@chuckg2016]

I'm not qualified to dispute any of the points you made. They all sound like solid reasoning to me. I recommend watching videos of Stockton FD, Stockton, Ca. All your points of command, communication, and organization are right there. Many larger departments can watch them and take notes. Respect!

[@adamhenderly1602]

Doing a 360 is something we normally do when we arrive on scene to see if there's any fire if we don't see flames to our eyes.

[@robertwatson818]

I had a friend who was a volunteer firefighter. This person told me stories I thought to be joke on her part. She told me if men house caught fire I did not want Station 1 coming to the fire. A year later a dwelling across the street caught fire. Station One showed up. Getting to see them in person I had to say she grossly under stated their lack of competency by several orders of magnitude. . Initially the fire was confined to a small room at the back of the house. Through the foolish actions of these clowns the fire traveled through the house to the end furthest from the initial origin---bringing loss of the entire house over a period of thirty minutes! The station is exactly one mile from the house yet it took them thirty minutes to get there--then through fighting over who got to put water on the fire and where ate up another twenty minutes---then it got worse. You would have to see it to believe it.

[@kenmeinken8115]

you know the last time I heard that it took 30 minutes for a one mile response, was because the homeowner didn't know what town they lived in and called the wrong department (fire districts and post office "cities" can be ten miles apart.) As for the clowns not knowing what they were doing, is there some reason you don't want to contribute to your community? At least those guys were .

[@saddleridgearmory4675]

Thank you for your videos. They helped me study and prepare for the hiring process. As of yesterday, I started with the county I applied with.

[@Peregrine101]

I am not a firefighter, but there is one thing I notice. There is a lot of smoke coming from windows in the part of the structure that not seems to be on fire. That combined with the fact that there is fire coming trough the roof at the back makes for an informed guess that at least the attic is on fire and maybe the floor beneath also. I would strongly work with the possibility that the fire is already traveling to the fron over the top floors. That makes an attack through the front door a tricky move to do. You don't want to trap firemen in the house like that. I would call for a ladder to open up the attic from the front and start an attack there. Secondary I would attack the fire from the back to kill off visible fire to stop feeding the fire with heat in the structure.

[@TheBenghaziRabbit]

dam those Dave and the guys really did a great job for holding the fire off for as long as they did! Kudos to those dudes!!