The most important lesson in layout design.

I don't usually make videos out of layout designs that I didn't have the opportunity to complete, but sometimes they can serve to illustrate important considerations that make them worthwhile.
Note that the slideshow at the beginning does NOT represent the design being presented. Instead, they are photos of my own railroad, just serving to fill in during the introduction.
If you are in the market for a custom model railroad design and/or build, please contact me at: www.superiormodelrailroads.com

[@user-lr6ie4wx4q]

The most important lesson is you can never fit as much track as you think you can

[@thebops4180]

Make sure you have the money. 70% of layouts don't complete :(

[@gilbertporter4992]

How so complete? Many are still works in progress.

[@leehanna4929]

Every layout design you do is a worthwhile teaching one. Thanks for sharing this simple one, Peter.

[@chrisfarr2114]

Great video. Lots of commonsense. Great voice over. Clear and eloquent. I wish you had been one of my lecturers at Uni back in the 1970's ! Excellent points made.

[@derekalexander4030]

That was such a great example of what a waste of space the island layout is compared to a around the walls layout and it was a great walk in design. Thanks Peter.

[@colinfitzgerald4332]

My experience with garage layouts is the accumulation of dust. Some sort of screen or barrier between the vehicle space and the railroad should be constructed. This track design looks like great fun to operate.

[@jonruehle9186]

WORST environment ever for a model railroad.

[@markbridgwater]

Well done, Peter. Wise advice indeed, as well as looking beyond the clutter in a garage.

[@vincenthuying98]

Dear Peter, such an interesting subject! Can imagine when you are approached by a new customer, it’s at first finding the balance between the customer’s wishlist, the available space, the level of difficulty of the build (when the customer chooses so) and more aspects combined with the knowledge you’ve acquired, the quality of advice and service you offer. From there it can indeed be a hard nut to crack when, as in the example, the initial footprint simply isn’t large enough, or in this case ‘thinks the other way round.’ It also must be very helpful to have obtained the constructor’s and designer’s eye, with which you’re able to point the customer to the storage space under the layout. If only for that simple reason the ‘shelf design’ makes much more sense than the ‘island’ one. Nevertheless, I gather it is a sensitive process, in which you want to serve your customer as best as you possibly can. Think the plan looks awesome, especially for the amount of operational opportunity you were able to provide and the different scenes this design will bring to life. Cheerio

[@TheTrainFreak]

Thanks Peter for sharing your process on all the input it takes going into a design for someone else. New and some experienced modelers do not realize how much time goes into just doing a design that one fits the space and two includes everything (or mostly everything) that they want on their layout. I have my clients give me a two sets of items. First on is a rough not to scale grid of the space they have for me to work with including obstacles and pictures to give me a better visual. The other item is that prioritized list of what they want and soon as I get my bench-work figured out, then I start applying the mainline, then the spurs, and yards based upon their list. I also try my best to make sure that walkways aren't less than 30" and some bigger clients need 36" and that there aren't any hard to reach area's that includes tracks but that's easier said than done when it comes to the turn back loops. Thanks again for sharing! - Jason

[@martin.brandt]

Love the idea of a staging yard just half hidden. Great operation, great optics!

[@_steffinwolf_]

Fantastic. Love the process of the design morphing into the final (nothing is ever final) layout. Cheers!!

[@Conn653]

Loved this style of presentation. Makes more sense to the everyday model railroader 🙂It brings many possibilities forward to the viewer 🙂

[@mpeterll]

I'm glad you liked it. What specifically did you prefer in this video over what I normally do?

[@jonruehle9186]

So what exactly IS the most important lesson in layout design? Is it to design around-the-walls rather than island-style? Is it to not get stuck with the space you have; see if there's a way to re-imagine the space and maximize it for your railroad? Is it to just let Peter design your trackplan? Yes, I believe that last one is it! :-)

[@creamwobbly]

Yeah I hear a lot of very patient explaining what he did, but no indication yet that any fundamental design is incoming at any point this year. I gave up. I'm tempted to give away all this historic Triang and Hornby stuff to some kid who will see how fast they can yeet them off the rails.

[@TickholeProductions]

Well done Nige for getting out there in those conditions to grab some video of the movement.

[@mistaecco]

I recently was looking into videos about industrial design, and i think the youtube algorithm got a bit confused... Ive never watched any model railroad content in my life 😂 That said, I used to go to shows with my dad as a child, and always loved it. Now with an adult's perspective, it was interesting to watch this to learn a bit more about what went into making those immense scenes! Thanks for this unique diversion to my day - maybe I'll see if my parents still have my N guage gear stored somewhere!

[@smcnish1droid]

Thank you for another great video. I found it extremely helpful because I am in the process of trying to design my layout. This made me think a little differently than I had before. Thank you again!

[@theyettifromcanada3688]

Great video! I was watching it and realised that I need some windows in my garage for sunlight to better light up things rather than be in the doom and gloom. Thanks for posting the great video!

[@NorthernOhioRailroadAction]

Excellent update layout looks fantastic keep up the great work looking forward to seeing your next video soon thanks again and have a wonderful weekend

[@greghayes9118]

That’s given me a few ideas. Thanks for sharing the experience.

[@chazzyb8660]

How nice to see your old layout again, happy days! I do hope you will feel able to restart it at some time, but I realise you are having fun, and hopefully making a good income, by working on 'your' other layouts for clients. The problem solving and chances to trial other ideas must be very stimulating in itself. And great to see a 'realistic layout', both in individual labour and cash outlay terms, for a change. Great to see how your analysis of the space available has offered 'the client' a far greater challenge, that is why one goes to an expert in the end. I love your super complex mult-level layouts, as an exercise, but I don't aspire to create models of such daunting complexity myself! Thanks again.

[@mpeterll]

It's not often I get hired to design simple layout like this one. Usually, the reason I get hired is that the client wants to fit a lot of railroad into a space that is too small to do it simply, requiring some complex thinking.

[@derekalexander4030]

That might be the 2nd most important lesson in layout design, lol.

[@ngaugefouroaksstreetstatio6932]

excellent work as always

[@RichardKuivila1947]

GREAT videos of "Perfect Ville" PRISTINE !

[@robs4516]

I'd bet money that the client got that first shape from Malcolm Furlow's HOn3 layout built in the 1980's. The footprint is an exact match for it. The plan you ended up with looks great. Wish I had that much room.

[@mpeterll]

I assume you are referring to the San Juan Central. I remember being captivated by the photos of that layout, and then very disappointed once I studied it in more detail. The staged photos showed trains as long as 8 cars, but the track-plan couldn't function with anything longer than about 3 (the operations episode at the end of the series confirmed that observation). From memory, I believe Furlow's layout was a little smaller (about 10x10 overall) with mostly curved benchwork and a cut-out in the top left corner - although a pretty good match, not an exact one. Actually, the client got his footprint from a design in a plans book with the main yard removed because he didn't think he had room for it. Of course, removing the yard meant that the remainder of the design was totally illogical.

[@kite7214]

VERY good thought process. Thank goodness I opened this video. You gave me much food for thought. K

[@uncipaws7643]

Thanks, very inspiring. In my future apartment I assigned a room for the model layout, 3895 mm wide with a depth of 1830 mm on one side (to a garden door) and 2340 mm on the other side. I also try to do a 90 cm gangway. Total length of the room in the other direction is 3640 mm but I will use the other wall for a shelf and a table for various works (building kits, working on models etc). I think of a station along an alpine mountain line with an industrial branch (maybe a sawmill) and an engine shop (whether I find space for a turntable I'll see). The main station will certainly be along the long rear wall, it might have underground storage tracks underneath where I can park entire trains. I also plan a viaduct across a valley (as deep as the room's floor). Maybe two viaducts as the train also has to return from that side of the layout. Even though I own the place I plan to build in segments that can be moved out of the door (1 m wide if going via the garden) in one piece. I don't like the idea of having a big monolithic installation that's impossible to move out without completely disassembling it. But after moving in I first have a lot of higher priority projects so the model and hobby room is likely the last of the house to ever be "finished" (I know a layout is never finished).

[@troysimpson9550]

Solid plan, as well as great advise! keep up the great work.

[@HotRodRodney25]

another awesome layout video peter I wish I could figure out my new future layout plan

[@riogrande5761]

I digested John Armstrongs book Track Planning for Realistic Operation and designed my own layout to have maximum running for the space I have. I used 11x17 graph paper, a scale ruler and a compass. The layout plan and progress can be found in the AtlasRescueForum in the Project Archive section.

[@ThePaulv12]

I had this in my toilet. I must've read it 40x from cover to cover I reckon. 101 track plans is free now BTW.

[@riogrande5761]

@@ThePaulv12 I had 101 track plans as well, but found Track Planning for Realistic Operation more useful for mid to large layouts.

[@jamessutton9319]

Great video sir!

[@RichardKuivila1947]

GREAT suggestions to client !

[@PotentialAutist42069]

love seeing your process. maybe ill contact you to design my next layout in my new space. def subscribing to this channel

[@paulhayton3423]

Smart design as usual.

[@drewzdrew27]

As someone who has a 10 X 10 Room for an HO layout - i was looking forward to the smaller layout footprint! lol

[@mpeterll]

I only produce the plans that clients hire me for, and so far no-one as hired me for an HO-scale layout to fit a 10x10 room. Unless you are willing to accept extremely sharp curves, limiting you to short care and only the smallest of locomotives, you are pretty much limited to a "doughnut" footprint. I did publish such a layout a few months ago. Although it was for a space somewhat larger than yours, it could be cut down considerably and might be a good starting point for you.

[@drewzdrew27]

@@mpeterll Oh yeah, i get it! Got a whole layout setup currently. It's a "doughnut" footprint like you said - with 28" min radius mainline. took over the closet for a couple more feet on one side. Thanks for the response!

[@jacko9759]

This is a great design😮

[@cncpgreatlakesdiv4896]

awesome thanks for sharing.😊😊👍👍

[@Keith80027]

Thanks for how you created this railroad.

[@gerlandkent6377]

[thank, you for you're great video]👍

[@solutions2exist556]

It will not fit into your room no matter how much you want it to work. Period. But I cut a section of straight out.

[@berenscott8999]

Expansion should be dual track.

[@user-qr7ee2cp4y]

Computer design is the coolest thing to happen to model railroading, especially if you can run trains on your computer to fine tune your layout.

[@mpeterll]

I never bother running trains in the program, but I do always run them in my mind over the finished design. That's the best way to know if the track arrangements will work. I frequently see published layout plans where the designer hasn't done that, resulting in track arrangements that don't work well.

[@mattp1337]

I'd call that an ambitious but manageable first layout.

[@mpeterll]

Not his very first layout. The client has built a couple of 4x8's and a bunch of structure kits.

[@ajkleipass]

While it's incomplete, there is a lot of meat on those bones to satisfy the imagination. And, surprisingly, the client didn't want a 500-stall roundhouse! That's usually a newbie cliché, is it not? Do you know if the client built the layout?

[@CFFollis_Disabile_DOC]

Dear mpeterll, wonderful video like all the previous ones! Just one question: What software do you use to design layouts? Thank you so much, see you soon!

[@mpeterll]

it's called 3rd-plan-it.

[@CFFollis_Disabile_DOC]

@@mpeterll Very, very Thanks!😉👍

[@musicman8942]

@@mpeterll That's Windows only right? Anything for us Mac users?

[@RichardKuivila1947]

WOW ! that's a $$$$$ layot !

[@dennisbailey6067]

The less points the better.Single main will do the job.Plenty of sidings for industries along the main.At least one branch line.A mining branch.Hidden staging?

[@guaardsky4404]

Very often less is more, more realistic. Dont use several paralel rails, hundreds of turnouts

[@nedmerrill5705]

Hello Peter. Will you be building this layout?

[@beeble2003]

He referred to the client being able to build the flat part, then the raised parts so no.

[@mpeterll]

If I was going to build the layout, i wouldn't have left the design after the rough design. The final design needs completing before starting on benchwork.

[@Siabot10]

My goodness what an excellent video and what a pleasure to watch. The things I appreciated (i) clear structure to the video (ii) excellent voiceover (no "ers" or "erms") (iii) succinct and concise presentation without intro music or swirling edits between slides. I wish others would learn from your video production skills, not just your layout design skills! The only question I had on the design was whether the reach across to the staging yard along the garage wall would become tiresome over time - I like to change the configuration of my trains regularly. That aside, I have subscribed and liked and look forward to watching more of your work. Well done!

[@mpeterll]

All the turnouts are easily reachable for maintenance from the two access openings. The expectation is that the staging yard will not be used as an active fiddle yard, but rather for parking trains. They will run over the railroad and exchange blocks of cars at the visible yard, thus their consist changes every session. without the need to reach over.

[@michaelhband]

👍👍👍❤❤❤🚂🚂🚂

[@rickyeates9810]

Lots of wasted plywood using 3' wide sections. A modular design might allow for sections of the benchwork to be moved if necessary. I presume this is an HO layout.

[@mpeterll]

Not at all. I frequently build 3' wide benchwork and I always use all the off-cuts. Sometimes I even have to cut small pieces out of full sheets.

[@jonruehle9186]

I built my las benchwork "modularly" (I built it to be removed if needed). I ended up moving from TX to NC during mainline track laying. I gave all of the modules away as they would not work in the new space. So just build your railroad to fit the space you have. If you have to move, salvage turnouts, tortoises, structures, etc, and trash the rest. Start fresh and don't make the same mistakes on the next MRR.

[@sammyweber5415]

I don’t understand, you have a whole huge room and you’re only dedicating half to a layout?

[@riogrande5761]

Must be the wife will only give him half the room

[@ricardojuricic9027]

he's talking of the garage and leaving door free for parking a car in it in the future.

[@user-hp9cj5fv2h]

Layouts are never finished fool 😅