The New Gods

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Ep.364
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[@ManifoldMind]

I love the creative symbolism that Jonathan augments Jordan's ideas with. These two should write a novel together: Jordan's writing, Jonathan's art

[@violet3863]

I say this is perfect and the communication of Say on, Say on! As Jesus Christ said to Peter. ❤ Allowance in the room to expend. I love it. Still listening!

[@stephensullivan1011]

Oooh yes!

[@downeybill]

much better to have Pageau and Peterson co-write. Pageau's grasp of the ways stories act out meaning is in a class all his own as far as I've seen. And I suspect that Pageau might not mind Peterson co-directing the design or execution of illustrations. But they are both creative geniuses, (according to whatever my judgement is worth, obviously.)

[@RajBeats]

Absolutely

[@ihavetubes]

I here I thought they were going to talk about the comic book from 1971 called The New Gods from Jack Kirby.

[@TulkOrkan]

The problem with AI analyzing the bible is that it doesn't have the information the authors had when they were writing it and that would be nearly impossible to encapsulate as far as I understand.

[@bronson8201]

Also, AI will make things up to satisfy a request. A prompter would need to be skilled in prompting in order to get accurate responses. How will the responses to some questions be verified too?

[@semosancus5506]

AI is as dumb as every other computer ever invented. It just sounds more authoritative.

[@stompthedragon4010]

​@@bronson8201 yes, Sam Vaknin has said that AI will make things up if it doesnt know.

[@jordanzhu4723]

Well couldn't you include that information in the data that you give the AI?

[@techwithdave]

@@bronson8201 for any topic, you get best results when asking chatGPT for explanations on concepts instead of facts. For context: Facts = What, Where, Who and When Concepts = Why

[@israelwhyte1307]

Playing with fire can lead to burns

[@MosesTY]

Or a delicious pizza. Most likely both though...😂

[@fireteammichael1777]

These 2 supplement each other just perfectly on so many topics! Side note, the fact that either are considered "controversial" at all, to any level at all, is utter madness. Great work and best wishes to both of you! And also to whomever sees this among the comments, best wishes and much love to you all as well!

[@TulkOrkan]

The wicked take the truth to be hard.

[@jasongould4068]

Sounds like a tower of Babel to me.

[@JediSteele]

Two very important men for the future of humanity. Very appreciative of them both 🦞☦️

[@jtjones4081]

JP; “ The climate alarmists are scaring the children with their end of the world rhetoric. “ JP video titles;”The apocalypse and end of the world.” I guess the climate alarmists aren’t doing it right. Or maybe all clout chasers exaggerate for clicks and views.

[@andrewprettyquick2070]

Don't you dare say humanity.

[@Lynnette4]

@JediSteele Agreed! We need more men, and women, like them!

[@zac2877]

​@@andrewprettyquick2070humanity...

[@Distop-IA]

I keep wondering what is the meaning of living in a post-AGI world. Where value trough aspiration would in a sense be stripped from us. What does that even mean? The main problem I see with this socialist utopia vision is that 99% would end up redundant by the eyes of the few. Will the owners of AI receive universal basic income too? Or are we heading into a Techno-Feudal era?

[@Sky-hd4ji]

I’ve been wondering for so long, why on earth is Jonathan not on The Daily Wire? And just saw his promo clip on this video. He’s on it now! That’s awesome. Keep up the awesome work with Jordan Peterson and the rest of the team. Their perspectives and insights are so enlightening!! The world needs more of this.

[@angeloelimelech6346]

Maybe because he is orthodox. The other Christians on the wire are evangelical.

[@RamonCol-3-5]

Not even true. Walsh, Knowles and Owens are all catholic.

[@Querymonger]

​@@angeloelimelech6346Klavan is catholic isn't he? Might have more to do with the fact he lives in Canada

[@AlexRobin78]

I have a feeling it's because Jonathan Pageau is apolitical

[@MrsYasha1984]

Klavan is anglican. Michael and the bearded one are catholic.

[@dcnchrislincoln-ur7iu]

If man is a fallen creature then how much further will AI magnify that fallen essence

[@danielreed823]

I know right, I enjoy Peterson's work but he seems so damn naive to things, with his expertise in the subjects he has studied he appears blind at times to the bleeding obvious of whats going on in the world around him, then wonders how it happend.

[@darthseagraves]

Fallen programmers program Cain 1000

[@izabellavanryn3531]

He is immature in spiritual matters right now. As many of us are, though I'm thankful to not have an audience.

[@danielreed823]

@@izabellavanryn3531 very much agree.

[@barrow_3490]

It's important to understand HOW the AI is creating new texts. It isn't necessarily harnessing the themes or wisdom of the work to create new stories. People quickly jump to conclusions about how AI uses information and anthropomorphise the logic used to generate answers.

[@stompthedragon4010]

Ive heard it called the Eliza Effect

[@mik569]

It's divination..... putting information in.... Getting randomized information out.

[@laststand6420]

Does it really matter how it generates the answers? A good or wise answer or a foolish or bad answer given still have their effects in the real world.

[@jordanzhu4723]

A KJV themed writer doesn't sound particularly appealing. The AI could do that with any book someone gives to the AI. Now, the Bible is on a higher level than most random books from the shelves. In keeping with that KJV AI is interesting notion, it has to synthesize the information in a new way, telling new stories. There are stories to be extrapolated from the Bible, like the universal hero myth, that the book, The Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell, is a good read for more about that. He went to Europe for his PhD in medieval literature and reading all these stories he came up with this conclusion that there is a universal story with signposts that makes every good story. When you think about an empire, Stars Wars comes to mind haha. Stars Wars is a story where the hero myth is told. To give you an answer, nobody quite knows how AI is able to predict with accuracy so good. The nitty gritty is that there is matrices that are layered filters, like think of a honeycomb in those beehives, and an activation function to give a prediction percentage. That's the prediction accuracy. To optimize the accuracy, one can add more matrix layers or remove some layers, use optimization functions like dropout which randomly turns off certain cells in the matrices, and that leads to better accuracy. I don't usually write comments on YT, but another avenue to explore would be tries. In computer science, tries are a tree shaped data structure. They are efficacious on string searching algorithms such as predictive text, approximate string matching, and spell checking.

[@LeoPlaw]

Correct! And this is one of the greatest dangers of it. It is being sold as the new God, and it disappointingly, Jordan does not seem to comprehend that, and appears to welcome it.

[@nicj5354]

Pretty sure AI is the beast - i mean, a talking statue everyone is forced to worship!?

[@lightinthedarkness316]

I have been thinking this since we started talking AI and Supercomputers…Creating a god, the image of the beast

[@stevenriften7561]

​@@lightinthedarkness316 A great social-credit-system with absolutely no freedom.

[@DailyBitesofWisdom]

Pageau is brilliant!

[@jaysce810]

Another great conversation Dr. lobster

[@InceyWincey]

Meet the new gods, Same as the old gods.

[@seriousmonkey5654]

No gods.

[@notloki3377]

human beings in a mob what's a mob to a king what's a king to god what's a god to a non-believer? no church in the wild...@@seriousmonkey5654

[@ninjason57]

@@seriousmonkey5654you can't be serious can you monkey?

[@InceyWincey]

@PatRisberg what is/was their role? Did the lords that made King John sign the Magna Carta perform their role correctly, albeit unwittingly and perhaps for the wrong reasons?

[@InceyWincey]

@PatRisberg that does not in any way follow on from your previous statement, nor does it answer my question.

[@isaaccardenas6741]

I am so glad about Jonathan's DailyWire series!

[@JediSteele]

I hope to one day have enough money to subscribe and view it!

[@beetalius]

That is SUCH a fascinating development!

[@imworkingonit2468]

I've been a huge fan of Peterson for a long time, but I must say the way he thinks and talks about AI is the first time I have been extremely suspicious not only of his motivations but of his view of the universe. The fact that he thinks feeding the words of the Bible, or any book, into an LLM is the same as "encapsulating the spirit of it" feels deeply nihilistic to me. To put it another way, how about we feed all of Peterson's writings and speeches into an LLM and then ask it questions. Would he honestly believe that this machine is speaking in his spirit and providing new insights that are essentially the same as being from him? Maybe he can be immortal this way. We'll create Peterson AI and even when he's dead he can go on teaching us new things. This whole concept feels profoundly anti-human to me.

[@quadhead1024]

Totally agree

[@mishaarmageddon1232]

Thank you. Excellent thoughts, worded precisely.

[@anthonymartinez6686]

Agree

[@brwok57]

He uses the word spirit a lot when referring to “animating patterns of thought and action”. In a way each layer in any simple AI model is “extracting” or “encapsulating” the spirit of its content recursively. I personally like the usage of the expression “extracting the spirit of” here by him, It serves as a generalized version of “abstracting” that can be used both for mathematical models and human psyche

[@karolakkolo123]

Also haven't followed JP for a long time, but to be the devil's advocate JP might be exploring the idea of using AI to help understand/extract archetypes from Biblical and other stories. I think it would be REALLY interesting if we were able to make the idea of archetypes more rigorous and well-defined with the help of AI

[@chrisparker2118]

Giving Johnathan a series on DW is a brilliant idea.

[@carolspencer6915]

Lovely to see two familiar faces together. Sensemaking brain gym most required. Super grateful for you two people. 💜

[@shoa4566]

Thou shalt not make a machine in the image of a mans mind.

[@tangerum5883]

I enjoyed this. Thanks.

[@jimmiferfreddette8583]

Jonathan Pageaus Explanation of the Bible has been changing my life for a few years now. I’ve also fallen in love with icons🙏🏻

[@JohnSmith-qx8ll]

Did you convert to Orthodoxy or Catholicism?

[@thomaseast2842]

​@@JohnSmith-qx8llboth, a good 50/50,... Shaken, not stirred

[@areuaware6842]

When you learn that the Bible is Satan's book it changes the whole world.

[@teds7379]

​@@thomaseast284250/50 Catholic and Orthodox is what we call Uniates (Eastern Catholics). Or LARPers :P

[@user-zb6vh4mr3b]

Jonathan P is a great guy. Love his finer insights….a fine moral compass ….Jorden Peterson is lucky to have him as a friend.

[@Christopherurich33]

Can't wait too hopefully see you at the Fargo ND show I really want too shake your hand and look you in the eye and truthfully say thank you for your work it help save my life and continues too do so I'll pay the 400$ for the ticket if I can still get one by payday next Friday

[@BrownA019]

that was an extremely interesting open talk

[@goose8937]

Amazing topic

[@brianreagan1349]

Best conversation on that subject, the WORLD should watch twice with a different test after each.

[@LeadingPaws]

I think the problem here is that JBP believes that the responses from the ai are the same as it thinking. Just as at the start you both talked about whether or not people can even understand what already exists, these generated texts are prompted and then created to answer the code of words, they are not individual independent thoughts, they are strings of texts. It responded to you in this way 7:37 because you promoted it to, not because it made the choice.

[@mortensimonsen1645]

AI will give the «average» answer to any question - that is my take

[@lol_wut5657]

The fear is that AI is learning to think in a very real sense. Just as infants learn to think and develop reason based off of millions of micro connections and associations over time. Now, imagine an infant that has perfect recall and access, potentially, to all the vast domains of human knowledge. And, like an infant, is influenced by the coding and material fed to it by it's developers. It's a sobering thought.

[@mortensimonsen1645]

@@lol_wut5657 Do you have a degree in computer science? I do. I don't think your explanation of how we learn is correct, hence an AI is only a pattern-recognition system. No intelligence.

[@lol_wut5657]

@mortensimonsen1645 all "learning" is pattern recognition. We avoid touching the stove because we don't want to continue the pattern of pain that would result. We learn early on multitudes of differing sensory patterns and behavioral patterns and how to relate in turn. Even this response is a series of word patterns expressing a thought from an intelligence. Why couldn't AI, trained on billions and billions of similar patterns, create "intelligent" thought? Traditional forms of intelligence, like logic testing, is getting blown away by newer AI models. Just something to chew on.

[@BB-fo5mr]

Having a degree in a field is irrelevant. You don’t need a degree (a piece of paper on your wall) for competence in subject matter. That is 100% fact. You touting that as an initial validation for your input, is quite tenuous. Rather revealing as to who you are as a person too. Spare the superficial ideology

[@Cinderella227]

Thank you gentleman. The human brain is superior to AI. God bless ✝️🙏🏻❤️

[@davidsirmons]

All relative. AI can create with endless novelty, just like a human mind. And do so far faster, far more iterations, far more sophistication, and can do so every second of every day as long as is wanted. A human cannot. AI is already superior in most regards.

[@Earthad23]

@@davidsirmonsArtificial minds are just that, they are artificial, reality all grounds out in the eye of the observer. AI will never be aware of itself, it can’t. That’s why humans will always have the high ground.

[@Earthad23]

@@davidsirmonsYou use this term sophisticated, that’s a relative term from the mind of a human being, sophisticated in relation to what? Our own ideas.

[@mack4691]

Jordan I believe that LLM's are fundamentally incompatible with the biblical corpus. Nobody knows how LLM's emergent properties arise but that's not even the issue, the issue is the intentional design mechanism everyone should know. These behemoth machines have a label affixed to them that says 'stochastic'. And that denotes an intentional randomness. It may be overwhelmingly likely to go with A over B, but it can roll B and then offer a post hoc rationalization for why B is the better option. An explanation which actually has little to do with how the answer was synthesized but made to sound convincing. There are rare works which craft the connotation of every word to reinforce an idea, and use images to echo past and future events, and what's striking about all of it is the intentionality. The danger lies in throwing away that intentionality but trusting it to be there as it was in the original.

[@BlessedAssurance949]

Insightful

[@marilynnorthrup6961]

Yes you have a strong point here. As any side of an argument can be supported or denied but messing with the base statement or "soul" of the narrative can change the meaning. Introducing randomness could therefore be very destructive. As a word has a definition, yet means a bit more than that too. Like a flavour of its own that cannot be defined without use. Also the effect of the words of the narrative, like a song, can resonate with their followers. So randomness could introduce a dissonance with surprising and unexpected results.

[@notloki3377]

yeah, they're a work in progress. they are just text generators right now... but i would remind you that 1.) people don't know where their text emerges from 2.) people give post hoc reasoning for their bullshit all the time problem right now is that it's untethered to the physical consequences of its actions. its ethics are the ethics it was designed with... you can look at tai for a good example.

[@Riskmitigator]

I frequently engage with GPT to ask a wide range of intriguing and sometimes unconventional questions, exploring topics from the value of fictional characters to philosophical concepts conveyed through dialogue. The depth of insight it provides is truly fascinating and continually broadens my perspectives on various ideas.

[@mortensimonsen1645]

Do feel you can trust the answers? It has fooled me on some occasions…

[@Riskmitigator]

@@mortensimonsen1645 yes, More detail and youll be pleasantly surprised. Identify elements that will improve the request. “Provide the information as if you are…

[@Lynnette4]

@@mortensimonsen1645 No, we cannot trust AI! What the motivations of the creators of it??? It has definite biased, left-leaning, tendencies.

[@eyoo369]

@@mortensimonsen1645 Depends if you use the free GPT 3.5 or the premium GPT4. You wouldn't think it would make a big difference but I've been researching AI for years now and the output difference is staggering. It's quite scary how just a 0.5 version can make that tremendous of a difference. Anxiously waiting for the improvements in GPT5

[@gnunyaw8495]

This reads as if it was written by AI

[@brennanwierzba9026]

I’m creeped out by this direction that Peterson is taking with AI… Jonathan: where do you think that’s going? Jordan: who the hell knows…. Have some humility and don’t mess with something dark you don’t understand

[@andreilikayutub3496]

LLMs are a reflection of the training set. What you teach it is what it says. There doesn’t have to be more than that. Although having said that I can only imagine the things a clinical psychologist could gleam about the population the training set represents from such a system.

[@danielfaller5617]

A lot of people dont really understand this kind of AI. Essentially it assigns a probability to every possible word based on how likely it is that its the next word (assuming that the previous text is coming from the training data) and than throws a dice and picks a word. Recently in 2017 someone found a way to create a high quality prediction model in a very efficient way which made it possible to create an impressive real world instance of it using our current computers. Of course chatgpt and others have more parts than this, for example humans rate the given answare and the model is fine tuned based on this human evaluation, this is part of why it looks so "human", because literally human evaluation of answares were used to fine tune the model. So its not like magic or the perfect representation of the training data, its more like a compression which can be useful when you give it an input and it know how it is supposed to be finished base on its training data.

[@williamwick5993]

Answare? What are those?

[@my1creation]

@@williamwick5993a term that combines “answer” and “software” 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@danielfaller5617]

@@williamwick5993 lol i guess i cant spelle, but tancs for reeding my commemt

[@daveytube]

The downside is that AI would take away the labour of doing the work yourself. It would take away the happiness of pursuit. Adding Dante would reduce scripture to Play-Doh.

[@christopherjohnson188]

Extremely valuable men!!!

[@esjel9804]

Jonathan's analogy of the AI acting as a type of divination is quite an interesting idea. Moreover, if there was a time for theologians, now is the time. But there is a "corpus" of great theologians: Ansel, Aquinas, Augustine, The reformers, the puritans (esp. Owen and Edwards), and not to forget modern day theologians too.

[@macmac1022]

If you have 12 minutes the first basic part I will go over is about fast/slow thinking. If you want there is a 12 minute video by veritasium called "the science of thinking" that will explain it very well. I think this is knowledge that can really benefit people if they do not know about it. The next part though I dont know any videos for and I dont know if anyone really had the idea I have before. The knowledge of the fast/slow mind is what is relevant from that video and I think a good starting point for the discussion. The video also gives examples of people doing it live, but it most likely will work on you as well so that is how I will show you. I am going to ask you a question, and I am going to predict the answer you will have pop in your mind at first, and predict that will be a wrong answer. This works on most people and you can try if for yourself on others to see too, its an interesting conversation starter. A bat and a ball together cost 1.10, the bat costs 1.00 more then the ball, how much did the ball cost? You might have an answer flash in your head right away with fast inaccurate fast mind but if you check that answer with your slow but more accurate conscious awareness, you can see that answer is wrong but it takes effort to do. The answer of ten cents is not the right answer but most people have that pop in their head because of the fast thinking mind that we rely on most of the time. The fast unconscious mind is taking everything in and trying to make sense of it really fast. Its 11 million bits a second. But sometimes it makes mistakes. The slow conscious mind is 40-50 bits and lazy but it can check things and bringing the unconscious mistake to conscious awareness it can correct it. The next thing to understand is about carl jung and the 4 ways the unconscious complex he called shadow deals with reality. The shadow is an unconscious complex that is defined as the repressed and suppressed aspects of the conscious self. there are constructive and destructive types of shadow. Carl jung emphasized the importance of being aware of shadow material and incorporating it into conscious awareness lest one project these attributes onto others. The human being deals with the reality of shadow in 4 ways. Denial, projection, integration and/or transmutation. Now I believe what is happening when a question that exposes a conflict in a belief, idea, something that someone said, or even about someone they idolize and the question gets avoided, that is the fast unconscious mind going into denial and the response is often a projection. This also can trigger and emotional response activating the amygdala more and the pre frontal cortex less where rational conscious thought is said to happen and the amygdala starts to get the body to flood itself with chemicals/hormones. Its like the fast mind knows conscious awareness will say its wrong. so it blocks it off to defend itself from admitting its wrong. in cases of denial and because it blocked off the rational mind, the responses are often irrational. Like personal attacks do not address the issue or answer the question. I think we can agree people have a very hard time now days admitting when they are wrong, I am not exempt from this myself I do realize. And we can see how badly questions avoidance effects us if you watch political meetings and watch them avoid questions all day long. Ok, so the first thing to go over is denial as that is the main one I expose with questions. A disowning or refusal to acknowledge something I think is a good definition for it here. There is a really good 2 minute video I use as an example of this. A streamer named vegan gains claiming lobsters have brains after some one said he can eat lobsters because they do not have brains. He googles it and starts to read what it says. When he gets to the part where is says neither insects nor lobsters have brains, he skips it and says they literally are insects then skips over that line and continues to read the rest. Just like in the fast thinking video, his fast mind already read that line and refused to acknowledge it in unconscious denial, and just skipped it. The person then tells him he skipped it and he reads it again and sees the line this time. Still being defensive of his claim and refusing to accept he was wrong, he tried to discredit the source and its the lobster institute of maine. If you would like to see the video for yourself its 2 minutes by destiny clips and the video is called " Destiny Reacts To Vegan Gains Ignoring Search Result That Contradicts Him". Justin turdo avoiding the question of how much his family was paid by the we charity 6 times in a row I think is denial as well. I think jordan peterson not being able to answer his own question of does he believe god exists and asking what do and you mean then saying no one knows what any of those words mean while being seemingly angry is think is another really good example of denial... and projection. And while JP find those words difficult, other people understand them easy. Even he does pretty much any other time they are used. So projection is next up. Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings. Many times a mind in denial will use projections for responses. Someone getting mad and telling the other person to not interrupt when they have been doing that a lot themselves would be an example. I have done this myself. The people who tell me I dont understand my own questions and my point is wrong when they do not even know what the point is are all examples as well. I ask them to steel man my position to show then understand my point and they just avoid that question as well clearly showing they do not understand my point. Now we have integration and/or transmutation. Integration is when you bring an unconscious behavior into conscious awareness and accept it. I know that I interrupt people talking sometimes even though I think that is wrong to do. I have a conscious awareness of it, but I have not been able to completely change the behavior.... yet. That is where transmutation comes in. Transmutation is to completely change that unconscious behavior. From being impatient to being patient, of from distrust to trust, hate into understanding and love even. So was this understandable or confusing? if you understand it, do you think its possibly true? Do you have any questions? If you have any tips I am would gladly listen.

[@Lamplighter888]

These AI language models are designed to reflect the views of society that are considered authoritative, so it is limited to those kinds of responses.

[@gilcostello3316]

Or, as Lain McGilchrist might have it, "AI will supply Left Hemisphere processed conclusions, a pithy of what can be known.

[@Anton_Sh.]

What? Where did you get that?

[@Lamplighter888]

@@Anton_Sh. They are based on collective online sources.

[@Anton_Sh.]

@@Lamplighter888 no, where did you get the "..that are considered authoritative.." part from ?

[@izabellavanryn3531]

It also reflects the views of it's programmers. John Lennox has a very good perspective on AI.

[@andrewprice9541]

Interesting point at the end...the creators are sowing seeds.

[@tm27field]

Fascinating

[@baderawlaqi166]

Sexual derangement has really controlled the world to an extent that pushes us to think about necromancy. (@Jordan Peterson) we need your input about this and well done on handling the guest. My sincere wishes to the free spirits

[@jimjustjim976]

Yes good point. It's cancerous. Mind sharing where you have 1st heard this term of this cultural malady?

[@juliemauger6183]

Our culture has discarded Judeo-Christian values. This has led to people viewing truth as relative and making up their own morals. In such a culture, it is inevitable that sexual morals have changed and will continue to change. This change will be negative, as our culture turns away from God. Already our attitude towards sexual sins that are defined as such in the Bible have changed: open marriages, same sex relationships & trans ideology have become normative. I see no reason why our morals will not descend even more into very dark places. Necromancy, bestiality, paedophilia, rape and so on:- there are people who would love such evils to be the norm. Some of these things, maybe all, have become a reality in the porn industry.

[@adrianmasters250]

@@juliemauger6183 I'm sorry but just how do you think necromancy is going to become a problem? Is there a popular method for raising the dead that I'm unaware of?

[@eyoo369]

@@adrianmasters250 Necromancy can be done entirely digitally now. Download a dead person's face and deepfake it into a 8K VR Porn video and dive into the experience in your VR Headset. Might not be like the real thing but spiritually it's the same sin that's being comitted. Worst part of all is that this tech is so incredibly accessible. Any kid with a gaming PC can run the software and let it rup overnight to have its ultimate personalised porn experience ready the next day. Wild times we're living in

[@hm1one]

Maybe necrophilia

[@marcoleonel-vi3xq]

This is so interesting

[@gilcostello3316]

In Arthur Clarke's short story, "The Nine billion Names of God", a computer salesman sells a computer to Tibetan monks at a high mountain top who have dedicated themselves to finding the name of God, and when the salesman leaves late at night and begins the long trek down the mountain, he looks up at the sky and sees the stars starting to flicker out.

[@taylorhoch2708]

What do you think that symbolized? Take your statement further. Reply and I'll give my opinion

[@gilcostello3316]

​@@taylorhoch2708The only name for God ever revealed was "I Am Who Am", which for me means, Don't ask, because you'll never know, because the human mind can’t grasp it, and if a human mind ever did grasp it, that human would flicker out, just like those stars.

[@MrYokugan1]

"The Writing of the God" (original Spanish title: "La escritura del dios", sometimes translated as "The God's Script") is a short story by Argentinian writer Jorge Luis Borges. It was published in Sur in February 1949, and later reprinted in the collection The Aleph. I would just like to add this beautiful text from Borges and see where this conversation will go.

[@gilcostello3316]

@@MrYokugan1 A short story by Borges, but epic and endless in its poetic meanderings amidst the entire history of humanity collectively determined, whether any particular individual knew or knows it or not, to possibly touch/hear the untouchable word that existed before and after any word we humans have been able to grasp, for that one word is ungraspable, and all we are left with are intimations, which amount to nothing but a sense of what is truly real, beyond whatever simulacrum we happen to be held captive to in any moment of Time we might imagine is beyond Time, but isn’t, for every simulacrum is but one more mind-invention in Time that gives us comfort in seemingly knowing when there is no knowing, no real understanding of what IS outside Creation/Universe where the ONE WORD resides, beyond Time, Space & Matter outside and inside the mind, keeping in mind that Eternity Itself is a concept of Time, and the WORD exists Beyond Time, and therefore Beyond Eternity, the latter a prison cell itself containing endless other prisons, infinite simulacrums. . Yes, this story is also about a commitment to abide in all tortures-physical, psychological, philosophical and spiritual-- as blessings that we suppose might deliver us to the Truly Transcendent, but what, it turns out, is not accessible to any human mind through any religious or secular ritual; for example, involving the ingesting of massive doses of magic mushrooms (one knows one has consumed enough to dimension-travel outside everything we have ever perceived when everything around you, through your physical senses, informs you that your entire surroundings, self included, are burning away, including smelling that burning away (when I first went there, I searched everywhere around me for the source of the fire that was about to immolate my entire existence), a universal experience when at the helm of perceptually exiting the world as we have known it for as long as we have lived in every aspect of that perceptual world, arriving inside dimensions totally outside all that we have ever perceived, including encounters with “the hooded ones” who sit, heads bowed low, at a fire that had gone out millennia ago, just rocks now where a fire once blazed (what LSD cannot take you to, even if you drink a gallon of it), but what is still a prison in Time. Or one can enter deep into the heights of psychological transcendence through ritual torture, what is also explored in Borges’ story (covered surfacely in the film, A Man Called Horse). And because I have a cinema reference for everything, if you want to glimpse the horror of that desire-to-know through self-obliteration to reach the transcendent via torture, watch the harrowing film that explores it best, Pascal Laugiers’ Martyrs. Yes, that film will take you the deepest into what Borges is exploring poetically-historically. My dad introduced me to Death as a guide to transcendent places at age 5 when he tried to drown me in a basement industrial tub, and again with a vicious beating at age 8, hovering with Death at that line of demarcation between life and death inside an out-of-body experience, and at age 15 when, after one of his brutal beatings, I remained unconscious for three days on a damp cement basement floor, and upon awakening my mom telling me I had to leave and never come back, which I did. But that leaving didn’t stop my exploring with Death an obsession to transcend the muck and mire of human willfulness that always generates hell on earth after any particular illusion of utopia-construction reaches its dead end, its inevitability with the manufacturing of every delusory historical adventure, not grasping what they are really looking for: Death’s guidance into the ultimate in transcendence, DEATH (what the ancients called The Thanatos Syndrome), the only true way to exit the prison of Time, Space & Matter, which had me end up in one of my adventures waiting on electrocution at age 20, embracing that destiny with no resistance, destiny as Borges understood it, a beginning of that ever-recurring collective adventure in human history, an adventure that is beautifully, artistically and intellectually, referenced in the first 3 chapters of the Bhagavad Gita.

[@louisesamchapman6428]

John18:37 ",,,For this I have been born and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice. "

[@williambranch4283]

The eclogues of Vergil would be seen as prophetic ... particularly Eclogue 4, though the meme originally was predicting the hoped for son of Mark Antony and Octavia ... Octavian's sister ... who was jilted in favor of Queen Cleopatra.

[@JackAtkins-xz5wi]

No man is in my Glory

[@dapizzaman6318]

"Victor asked it to give itself a body." mary shelley would like a word with you lol.

[@tuckerbugeater]

Praise be to God Ai!

[@sonofgod117]

"is it a higher form of necromancy? divination? playing with a black box." love that description of AI, accurate

[@AsmaYousuf-ui5pd]

It is not divination, let alone a higher form of it. No AI software can predict the future.

[@Jack__________]

Given that a machine doesn’t have a soul… anything it “thinks up” is of the world. Do not forget that the father of lies will appear as an angel of light.

[@Halleiujah]

Amen

[@emanuellasker3650]

The approach to solution of logical problems sometimes requires the divestiture of all preconceived notions (more or less). All except one. That the problem in question can in fact be solved because it must be solved.

[@diegosimon1990]

The best duo.

[@philippawesterman8843]

I don't trust Chat GPT because I don't trust the people behind it and those people are more significant than the programming. 😮

[@zac2877]

Jordan Peterson is awesome 👍

[@G505]

I wonder if they would consider each other best friends? They both seem to enjoy these obscure topic conversations so much

[@FoundingStockNZ]

Wow this is going to be huge

[@robertrogers-nm8wf]

These 2 are pretty good. Always interesting.

[@semperzeroo8726]

yo. how much would it cost me to buy everything from the daily wire related to jordan peterson? is it a monthly subscription or can i pay like 100$/500$ to unlock and download everything?

[@AndreiLucaa]

The closing thought is scary.

[@jmortyballs]

"The further adventures of Satan" Story of my life 😆

[@davidsirmons]

Most uncomfortable chairs ever. Good to see new stuff from JP.

[@catfinity8799]

I think it's just a computer program that follows the specific set of instructions it is given in the code and the text input.

[@DeezScotts2023]

American Gods by Neil Gaiman is a modern classic.

[@Sweethands4]

Seems like something any person with real life experience would decide to keep on the leash. "People learn to love their chains".

[@jjsoccer1010]

Do a video of you guys playing with that…….Now, that would be pretty cool.

[@BitterCurrant]

I think both speakers can benefit in conversation with people that actual program these softwares they keep referring to as "Artificial Intelligence." Technologists offer a different perspective than the layperson on their field of expertise that is the many branches of computer science and information technology. I don't think I've seen a lecture yet on the Turing test in evaluation of the validity of said the AI's products, nor the ethics of AI itself.

[@maureenclement2553]

Jordan! I l❤ve your jacket ☺️👍🏻🦞

[@gilcostello3316]

It’s extremely important to understand what Lain McGilchrist has revealed about the two hemispheres of the brain, from which one comes to understand how the Left brain became dominant in the West since the Gutenberg Press took control of our minds, which resulted in a dismissal of many intuitions and insights gifted to us from our Right hemispheres. And in AI systems this Left hemisphere dominates our analyses with NO WAY OUT, what is the real danger of AI systems.

[@liammccann8763]

JBP summoning the demons, using what sounds like witchcraft. All this despite seeing what faithful Catholicism has done for his wife. I've stated for years that JBP was being called to explore the NT in the manner that he presented the Old Testament. JBP, by his actions, rejects this calling and would rather AI do it for him. Listen to your heart Jordan.

[@izabellavanryn3531]

With all due respect, Catholicism and Witchcraft are a bit parallel. Many teachings in Catholicism are rooted in Paganism, and are extra Biblical. We have such a way of complicating Christianity and God's word.

[@liammccann8763]

@@izabellavanryn3531 Christianity is unique in that we find God searching for man. Every other religion, including paganism, is man searching for some undefinable entity.

[@izabellavanryn3531]

I'm not talking about biblical Christianity, I'm talking about the rituals and teachings of Catholicism that are extra biblical. Rome couldn't stop Christianity, though they tried. So they mangled it up with their Pagan practices and deities instead. I'm not sure what you mean by searching for man, but the difference with Christianity in my eyes compared to any other religions; is that God is reaching down directly to us when He came down and died on our behalf. He seeks a relationship with us, and He left us the greatest love letter of all time in HIs word. He indwells in each believer through the Holy Spirit. Not us trying to appease something else through our own efforts and vain repetitions like every other religion.

[@liammccann8763]

@@izabellavanryn3531 By 'extra Biblical' do you mean Tradition? For we Catholics, here is the issue; has Christ established, besides Scriptures, any other agency, or authority, to preserve, to explain and propagate His doctrines? The Church Christ founded was a Church with a living Authority. The writings of the New Testament would come later - a proof as the writings of the Old Testament had been a prophecy - that God would made good His Word. In hoc signo vinces +.

[@izabellavanryn3531]

@@liammccann8763 Listen, I believe that there are Catholics out there who are saved, and I have known some very dear ones. However, I simply cannot accept your assertion that the Catholic Church is the ultimate authority. Especially when it's leaders look for spiritual guidance from all other religions and figures such as the Dalai Lama. Imagine if the apostle Paul went around Rome saying he "did not come to teach them anything but to learn from their rich spiritual heritage." Which is what John Paul II said to the Hindus in India. I imagine the Apostle Paul would not have died a martyr's death if he had been open to Rome's Paganism.

[@spicytoast6890]

I uhh.. I feel the need to point out that I love Jordans hair 😂

[@jasonprince8016]

You should ask the "Model" that if its purpose is to be the best and yet it fails because there are better models, then wouldn't it be best that it cease to exist.

[@shamicentertainment1262]

That’s not its purpose though lol

[@DaveC1983.]

Love the lobster 🦞 pattern

[@austinmolitor7283]

OMG A LOBSTER SPORTCOAT

[@billhayward1585]

what would happen if God was found. Would it ruin Religion ? How important is the unknown.

[@alanwhitehead9756]

Christopher Sparkes has spent 25 years translating a new Keys to the Kingdom bible.

[@daltonclifford5106]

Can you share this app publicly?

[@pjohnson81]

A fun ChatGPT prompt I did last year: ask it to describe the nature of black holes or other celestial bodies in the language of Dante

[@Xaforn]

How did that turn out?

[@pjohnson81]

@@Xaforn better than any professor could give and terrifying at the same time

[@zisha01]

In the absence of gods of the natural world we invent gods for profit.

[@sammacfarlane8037]

Mr Expert on everything

[@Robbya10]

If you used a single translation it would actually be more informed by the way we have constructed language than it would be by the text itself. You would gain significant nlbenefit by overlaying multiple translations and weighing them based off scholarly ratings of accuracy so you have the target as well as boundaries to use as error mitigation.

[@flamechick6]

Jordan talks about his magic mushroom experience

[@finbala8052]

Jordan slightly dominates conversations

[@ThePryzmean]

The image is given life.

[@paulflannigan888]

How will we know when the complex math ends and the devils begin?

[@JohnSmith-qx8ll]

Fresh blasphemy just dropped

[@fencserx9423]

Begins with Jordan almost falling out of his chair

[@JackAtkins-xz5wi]

Every weapon on earth will be surrendered to me and nobody else...

[@oliveradams8600]

Please, find the urantia book.

[@anthonyroyer8283]

That sounds dangerous

[@bradkafer5965]

I love thinking about how Samson is like Christ. His birth was announced by an angel. He was set apart from.the womb like John the Baptist. The start of his ministry to Israel as a redeemer was full of signs wonders and mighty works that made his renown spread through all the region and everyone knew he was full of the Holy Spirit. At a certain point he was betrayed by a trusted and intimate confidant who had been conspiring with his enemies. He was taken by his enemies and physically harmed having his eyes gouged out. At the end of his life. Samson was led in weakness like a lamb to the slaughter, paraded in front of his enemies while being mocked and ridiculed. Here is the God man he saved others let him save himself. Yet at the very moment when he was presented as a spectacle for the triumph of the enemies of God he stretched out his arms and died bringing the temple crashing down on the Philistines. In his death he destroyed the enemies of God and delivered his brothers from tyranny and bondage. His death in weakness was his greatest work of deliverance. His apparent defeat was his victory. Samson is an icon of the Godman and suffering servant who is betrayed mocked and made a spectacle by his enemies but in his death triumphs over them and sets his people free. He is a picture of Jesus. Amen

[@throckmortensnivel2850]

I got an idea. Ask the program how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. That should keep it busy for a while.

[@notloki3377]

if you are gonna mastrubate, i suggest you do it in private.

[@throckmortensnivel2850]

@@notloki3377 You might say the same to Peterson and Pageau. at least then it would have the ring of truth.

[@notloki3377]

@@throckmortensnivel2850 not understanding something complex doesn't make you intelligent.

[@throckmortensnivel2850]

@@notloki3377 What is it you think I don't understand?

[@notloki3377]

if you watched this video and all you got is angels dancing on the head of a pin, i have no idea how to help you. maybe get your ears checked.@@throckmortensnivel2850

[@JackAtkins-xz5wi]

The 7-fold halo

[@kpk1958]

The title should have been: "Two guys talking gobbledygoop for eleven and half minutes."

[@bryanutility9609]

I like the gods of beauty, strength, courage, excellence, creativity. Quality over Quantity. Wouldn’t even include equality.

[@jacobcordova1104]

A paradox of beliefs, people having an internal system to make themselves a better person and to make more sense of the world but that very thing having them operate and take their places in the gears of chaos. Being prideful, they do not see their own faults in their own ways and there begins their fall from the glory and grace of God. May there be peace and thanks in our hearts towards mankind and The Lord Jesus Christ.

[@adev9448]

"Love the suit" -Hannibal Lecter voice

[@francismcglynn4169]

In 1611 the King James Vereion contained 80 books (including the Apocrypha). In 1885 they were removed leaving only 66 books. The Catholic Bible contains 72 books. The stories you could generate would be completely different, just as the results of rejecting the books canonically incorporated by the Church into the Bible led to totally different expressions of Christianity.

[@superstitiousfishes1247]

I'm a fan of you both but did no one notice the symbolism of the neutered fireplace in the background?

[@JackAtkins-xz5wi]

I’m never wearing shoe laces