The Paradox of Bamboo Backing

Bamboo is probably one of the most tension-safe options that can be used in a traditional bow application, but it’s no silver bullet when it comes to backing your bow. While bamboo may not break easily, it can quickly crush the belly wood of many bows leaving a once aspiring stave in a state of nothing more than a candidate for a fire starter. Worse yet, it can leave a bowyer asking more questions than the number of chrissals on the failed belly with nary an answer… This is the point when understanding the paradox of bamboo as a backing comes into play.
Follow me on:
Instagram: / meadowlarkbows
Facebook: / meadowlarkbows
meadowlarkag.com

[@BadSinHunter]

This will help me a lot.. Thanks for taking the logical and practical way of explaining things down to an accurate science thanks!!

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

Thank you for watching because this video is hard to suffer through! lol! I’ve learned a lot about editing since then

[@lylekurth4142]

Thank you Joddy. I look forward to the next installment.

[@ToddWittenmyerBackwoodsLiving]

I'm just getting into bow building and I found this to be very helpful! Thanks!

[@mrdaveofdaveshire4047]

Hey thanks for the video 👍 I'm in the process of making a lemon wood bow backed with bamboo. I'm hoping this combination will work! Also I thought it was very helpful and concise. Not to long and answered alot of questions for me. I could of done another hour of it as a novice bowyer

[@bienyamientoefy1923]

may the grace and blessings of God be upon you mr. pettit and greetings to everyone.this was very valuable information sir.i need to watch it again and save this video clip

[@juanantonioespinosa8816]

It's hard to understand for me the mechanism that makes the valley wood collapse because of the compresion on the glued side of the bamboo layer. I want to make a bamboo backed lemonwood bow as a first try with laminated bows. You do a wonderful explaining job at these videos. Thank you very much.

[@markhopkins4272]

Thank you, I am actually building a bamboo backed hickory bow now. I am thinning out my bamboo.

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

Good call!!! And keep that belly ratio in the 1:4 or 1:5 range! Good luck!

[@roman_sudneko]

Looks like boo backing is an ideal option for a long and narrow English long bow. Thanks for the video!

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

Yep! Keep it thin. If you’re using any of the junipers, the ratios discussed in this video should probably be doubled or more. Best rule of thumb is to be as thin as reasonably possible.

[@brianspilsbury8953]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear would you consider a Juniper belly with a bamboo back a good choice?

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

That’s a tricky question, and depends on what it is that you are trying to accomplish. I personally would not choose Bamboo for a juniper bow. The performance of a bow is dictated by the compressive qualities of the bow not the tension side of the equation. If you’re looking to induce reflex or in some way to accentuate the compressive qualities of juniper, something a little more stretchy would be better since the limbs tend to be so narrow and thick - and as discussed, a wider/thinner limb design doesn’t help a bamboo backing. Where bamboo is the perfect marriage for Ipe, sinew is the perfect marriage for junipers, and probably your best choice. I’m personally satisfied with rawhide.

[@brianspilsbury8953]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear thank you for the reply. I am removing several 40ft Junipers. I read they are useful for bows but they need help with a backing for better performance.

[@brianspilsbury8953]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear one more question if it's OK. In Southern Ontario you dont have the great bow woods. What we do have is Black Locust. Do you have any experience or knowledge with this wood?

[@RedmanOutdoors366]

Thank you you seem very knowledgeable in this area 🤠

[@growinmoflower3391]

Great explanation

[@knolltop314]

Lotsa good information here.

[@bryonguenther6199]

How well does it work to back hickory with another strip of hickory?

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

Pretty much Hickory backed anything works well so long as it’s drawn into some degree of reflex during the glue up.

[@gushlergushler]

Do the pieces of bamboo need to be completely flattened out or are the concave areas filled up with epoxy? To what depth can the inside curve of the bamboo stay in the finished bow without causing problems?

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

To be fair, I have never left any of the concave of the bamboo in any of my backings, so I would be speaking purely from my knowledge of joining wood from a carpenter/woodworker perspective. First, you would lose a lot of gluing surface if you leave any void in your backing strip. Second, even though epoxies can fill that gap and provide adhesion, you would be adding an awful lot of needless mass to the limbs in the form of excess glue. Lastly, if you are inducing any reflex to the limbs, you’re relying on the shear strength of that glue joint between the back and belly surfaces - the thicker the glue line (or the more glue that is in play) it will rob the whole operative value of the application in the first place. I hope this makes sense. Bottom line is that I wouldn’t employ anything but flat surfaces when glueing a backing to a belly.

[@gushlergushler]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear It makes perfect sense, thank you very much for the answer, it helps tremendously.

[@colinthiel1283]

Nice video mate, I'm thinking of making a bow but it's hard to find any of the preferred bow woods where I am, I'm thinking of using either macrocarpa/cypress, Douglas fur/Oregon, or mabey radiata/Monterey pine? Along with bamboo, do you think any of these will work? Do you recommend any over the other? Thank you

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

Of the woods you mentioned, cypress would be your best bet. The others would surely crush under the strain of the bamboo…

[@arcoeco]

Thanks for that video, very informative. Might give the trapping option a go on my next Rock Maple effort. Combined with a R-D glue up hopefully it will all work out. Question though. Have you noticed performance drops when making the changes to allow for the white woods? Thanks.

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

As I mentioned, it’s all about the trade-offs. I have not bothered with the trapping process because I don’t like the look and for no other reason than that lol! (Talk about vanity…) What I have found is that I can get a 50#+ bow out of white woods with a 1&3/8” - 1&1/2” wide bow at 66” long. For me, that’s good enough. That’s why I focus so much on pre-tillering and then working the sides of the bow down to my weight range before I start belly tillering. So long as the belly maintains integrity, the performance is not much different, and to a greater extent better if you play your cards right. A bow of these dimensions and materials will usually weigh less physically than that of its counterparts made of more stout materials… think of those bows being “over-built” while the white-wood alternative has likely been maximized on an oz. for oz. basis - making it more efficient, and therefore faster… But be warned - it’s a tightrope!

[@ianbruce6515]

What about an Ipe backing on white wood? It's pretty easy to get a slat with no grain runout out Ipe. Would Ipe need to be as thin as bamboo? It has to be pretty impressive in tension. Could Ipe overwhelm the white wood belly?

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

I have not tested this, however, Ipe is not known for its tension qualities. It’s pretty much why you have never seen it used that way and why a self bow of Ipe is a very rare find. It is at the top of the charts for compression strength which is why it stands up to Bamboo so well in small dimensions, and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t even make the list of tension-safe (let alone tension strength) bow woods. If you’d like to test it, I’d recommend getting a strip about 1” wide and a 16th of an inch thick about 12” long and see how far it bends in comparison to hickory in the same dimensions and grain orientation - that would help settle your curiosity before going through the whole bow building process to find out. Seriously though, for those that have gone there before, they would tell you that Ipe is not a viable backing material.

[@ianbruce6515]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear I have built self-backed bows from Ipe with substantial backsets. I suspect, however, that what is sold as Ipe may be a group of similar woods. My favorite Ipe longbow was made from Ipe that is very different from the Ipe that I have obtained recently.

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

I have seen a few different species sold as “blonde Ipe” among other names that were not actually Brazilian Walnut when I pressed them for the actual wood type. Probably not a big deal for deck consumers, but was a pretty important distinction for me as a bowyer.

[@scottadams9202]

Hi thanks for sharing your experience with a bow. May I ask where do you get your bamboo and epi ?

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

My last batch of bamboo came from sunset bamboo (you can find them on the web). Trick is that you have to buy in bulk, so if you plan to make several bows, it’s a good deal, otherwise you’re spending a lot of money for a lot of extra bamboo. As for the Ipe, I have found a local lumber yard that specializes in Ipe decking. The owner has been very generous in allowing me to pick through his planks to find what I need before filling orders for his contractors.

[@ParkourEh]

What's your opinion on using fiberglass to back hickory? I have an 8ft section of 4/4 hickory board but the side grain is less than ideal for the length I want, although I do have some Bo-Tuff fiberglass I can use. From what I dug up, it seems that it's a waste of time and resources although bamboo+hickory has definitely been field tested. So I'm wondering if fiberglass is drastically more powerful than an equivalent piece of bamboo for a backing. Thanks!

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

I have worked with both materials, but have not tried a bow construction that you are describing. I think that the reason the reviews aren’t very good for using fiberglass as a back is that it lends very little virtue outside of a safety backing. This having been said, you are basically building a self bow with a very dense (efficiency-robbing) safety backing. In the application you are describing, it would behave in the same manner as any other low-stretch fiber backing like flax or hemp, etc… they make a bow tension safe, but the belly can easily become overwhelmed in compression necessitating a wide enough belly to answer the call - again efficiency-robbing… You need only take a thin piece of bamboo and bend it in a circle and let go to understand how it elevates the performance of a bow. Unlike a piece of fiberglass that will remain limp and lifeless, the bamboo will jump out of your hands and straighten to attention.

[@herrero4270]

Thank you for your video. I have a question: do you think that using a single layer of laminated PVC on the belly, can help to avoid problems of compression on a backed bow? I mean, as a weaker substitute of horn?

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

It’s uncanny that you would ask that question, because I have thought the exact same thing… I have made a few PVC bows and the compression that it can withstand is impressive. Prepping it to be used as a belly would be far easier than horn as well. I think it deserves some exploration, I just haven’t gotten that deep on my list of experimental to-do’s yet.

[@herrero4270]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear Thank you for your answer. What kind of PVC tube is adequate to build bows? There is not much diversity of PVC tubes in Mexico. I would love to make a mongol or similar style of bow, with inserts at the tips.

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

As near as I know, they only produce schedule 40 or schedule 80 PVC, with the 80 being thicker. The thicker, the material, the stronger the resulting bow, so the choice at that point is how wide you want your bow. I prefer a narrower limb, so I like the schedule 80.

[@herrero4270]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear Why a narrower limb?

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

It’s 100% a personal preference. A wider limb will give you better stability against twisting so it’s a good place to start. If this is a style of bow that you want to pursue I’d suggest the Backyard Bowyer channel. He specializes in this type of construction.

[@E-E.ADVENTUREGEARS]

IS IT POSSIBLE TO DOWNLOAD THIS NOTE?

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

Do you mean the sheet of paper that I was using in the video?

[@E-E.ADVENTUREGEARS]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear Yes

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

I’ll have to take a look around, but I’m pretty sure I tossed that paper right after filming. I’ll try to put something together for you, and anyone who would like a copy.

[@E-E.ADVENTUREGEARS]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear Thanks ALOT it'll be very helpful 👍👍👍

[@E-E.ADVENTUREGEARS]

@@meadowlarkadventuregear HI your note has great info when will it becomes available?

[@kborak]

What you are saying doesnt seem to hold true for the ratio of bamboo to bellywood. At least not from my experience so far.

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

It’s why we keep making bows… there is far more to be learned than there is to be taught.

[@Xizario2]

Bamboo-bubinga-maple is the sandwich. Problem you need to order from 3 distant parts od the world and hope they all use metric and not some bs american units.

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

@@Xizario2 Thanks for watching, and yeah… America is being very slow about transitioning to the metric system lol!

[@SharpObserver1A]

Way too much "disclaimer- explanation" I got fed-up at 6 minutes. bye !!!.

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

I’ll admit: my content won’t appeal to everyone. Hope you find the information you’re looking for. If there is anything else I can help you with, feel free to let me know