WHO IS THE WOUNDED KING OF CALIBAN? IS IT THE EMPEROR?

[@walterTbaggins]

Plot twist. That version of the Emperor is the humanity that got cut off and when he gets to speak he has nothing left to tell Lion except that he loves him and he's proud of him. Lion El'Jonson was a pretty tough character to love but he was fundamentally just a good son first and foremost.

[@RaimoKangasniemi]

This!

[@jorahtheexplorer3262]

And being accepted unconditionally by the Big E would be something Lion would not expect, so not expect the old man to be the Big E.

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

I think the Emperor wasn't created by the shamans, like Cawl did with others, they bound their souls to the Emperor to be able to influence and steer him because as humans they couldn't. Creating what the Emperor is today, a multi souled being. The Shard is the original Emperor and what remains is the compilation of multiple souls including Malcador and all those who sacrificed, unwittingly causing madness to him because all of the souls and their personalities are fracturing him and drove him insane. Malcador obviously knew that's what could happen but he only did it once and likely hoped that he would only need to do it once to revive him, he didn't anticipate they continue too do it if it failed.

[@codybates2419]

I thoroughly enjoyed this novel. And the king was absolutely implied to be the Big E. The Lion always saw the emperor differently than his brothers. In the last chapter of his Primarch book he sees through the Emperors golden persona and its implied he sees his actual appearance

[@chitwn9891]

I've always seen that line as a sign that the Lion isn't very introspective. Because of course he thinks he sees the "real" Emperor. Most of his brothers probably feel the same with their own perceptions, but the Lion would never recognize that

[@jonharrison9222]

@@chitwn9891 Despite the fact he’s one of the more introspective Primarchs…

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

I immediately understood it to be both a King Arthur reference to the Fisher King and the Emperor.

[@graventhered]

The Grail, which can heal any illness?

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@graventhered Candelabra, Bloody Spear and Holy Grail are all articles mentioned in the arthurian legend of the Fisher-King.

[@christianjensen1100]

From wikipedia, about the Fisher King: "Unable to walk or ride a horse, he is sometimes depicted as spending his time fishing while he awaits a "chosen one" who can heal him. Versions of the story vary widely, but the Fisher King is typically depicted as being wounded in the groin, legs, or thigh. The healing of these wounds always depends upon the completion of a hero-knight's task."

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@christianjensen1100 I had en excellent guide to Arthurian myths... Overly Sarcastic Productions got me covered when Mike Brooks suddenly makes his entire Lion book one gigantic King Arthur reference :D

[@willogsdon7092]

Yep, fisher king was my take. There are Arthurian references throughout son of the forest, from the names of the risen to the king in the boat to the nature of eljohnson's quest

[@Gunnberg85]

I believe the Lion senses the Emperor when wielding the shield because the Emperor is channeling his energies through it. The old king visage may be intentionally shrouding himself so as to not become a beacon for Chaos to find. I believe that The Lion will finally be able to talk to this aspect of the Emperor when he can adequately defend him from the shadows. Because once the old king speaks, the shadows will pounce.

[@C0ldIron]

My thoughts were that the three objects represented three of the primarchs. The candelabra representing Vulcan, the spear representing Russ who wielded the emperor’s spear during the heresy, and the goblet representing Sanguinius although why they were being represented is unknown. As for why the king doesn’t speak and is frustrated it is because he needs to say something specific and can’t spare the energy or concentration if The Lion lacks the understanding or perspective to do whatever the emperor asks of him.

[@CountDVB]

It is very much tied to the inspiration of the Fisher King

[@colinford9015]

THANK YOU Rho for acknowledging that the Lion was the only primarch that was given the knowledge of chaos.

[@samkwomo6030]

We overlook something crucial. What is the wounded king actually fishing for? Since the shadows are a representation of the chaos gods, then the lake is obviously a representation of the warp. So what is the Emperor fishing for in the warp? Something important enough to wait so patiently, wounded, biding his time.

[@chrisharley5781]

Fishing the warp for his sons lost in it?

[@templar628]

Corax, Russ, hell even the soul of ferrus manus maybe

[@samkwomo6030]

@templar628 I don't think it's that simple. If the Emperor was looking for "someone" and not a particular thing or weakness of the chaos gods, then it'd be more likely to be Constantin Valdor. We know for a fact the relationship between valdor and the Emperor was greater than any Primarch and himself. So I'd say what he's fishing for, is definitely some kind of weakness of the chaos gods, using Constantin Valdor as the literal bait. It has always felt like the Emperor was grooming Valdor for some greater plan only he and Malcador would have known. Especially since we know how special Valdor was from birth alone for the Emperor to wage war just to get his hands on him. So whatever Valdor is doing as the "Yellow King" rn, is some sort of extension of the Emperors will. I wouldn't be surprised If both them actually still communicate. God I love 40k

[@samkwomo6030]

@templar628 The Emperor's Trump card perhaps, in the form of Valdor. Just waiting for a chaos god stupid enough to take the bait, and checkmate the mf. Perhaps the chaos gods know this, which is why they seem to steer clear of the Emperor himself, only going after the Imperium. It'd most likely be a daemon prince that's stupid enough to take the bait in their god's stead

[@chrisharley5781]

@@samkwomo6030 I agree it's nothing simple, but I don't think he's looking for Valdor. Valdor has built an empire in the web way separate from the imperium for the Emperor, he can easily find him. This has to be something else. I say the primarchs in the warp but it could absolutely be something else.

[@notribadsvault]

It’s Omegon clearly. He didn’t speak because then he’d have to say “I am Alpharious”

[@chrisfrombeyond4240]

It's definitely a reference to the Emperor BUT maybe not the one sitting on the Golden Throne. I theorize that it may be the shard of the Emperors soul that he discarded during The End & The Death pt.2. He may be the discarded vestige of the Emperors humanity, hiding within the Webway, barely clinging to sentience.

[@donkratos5627]

CANDELABRA = Fixing the Astronomicon / Great Rift SPEAR = Aiding Russ OR Valdor on his Quest CHALICE = Blood of Sanguinius &/or Helping Dante’s Vision

[@paulmusgrave2243]

Good,my theory. Candelabra = 7 remaining sons. Spear =. Will,authority or your own destiny. Chalice = faith.

[@Wolf-mv9sq]

Very Excalibur, John Boormans Version, "What is the Secret I have Lost?!"

[@jeffreypeters8357]

What if the Wounded King was the aspect of the Emperor that he cast out? Hope and such? The one that could become the star child or reunite with him. Or it could be a different aspect cast out. By the way, Caul with his multiple minds merging is similar to the old lore of the Emperor being created by the shamans mass dying and merging into one. Caul is able to take off some of those personalities and the Emperor has similar abilities pretty confirmed.

[@sneezingidiot301]

His memory must be fried if he's expecting a honest answer from Big E

[@davidthomas2870]

The spear sounds like the emporer's spear, Russ' granted weapon from the herresy. Perhaps it is to show that Russ is active and has drawn blood against the enemy

[@WalkingCaptain]

The question in my eyes is about the Lion himself. The artefacts are the hints for his quest in order to embrace his role within the big picture. It is similar to the Big Blue quest. Big Blue understood his role and the reason he was created when he spoke with the Big E. Same should be done by the Lion. Big E by doing so, just ensures that his primarchs will stay focused and won’t deviate from the path. We should keep all in mind that Big E played chess games with the roles of his primarchs so it’s only logical to still play strategy games (we must never forget that despite his plannings Jaghatai remained loyal which surprised the Big E). Lion must understand that he is just a weapon, a beacon, and a mentor.

[@JackLarsen-rp9qj]

babe wake up Rho just uploaded

[@joshuamorton9767]

I can't tell you the hide me and my partner get when wolf lord rho uploads a video, been here since day one and my man always delivers keep up the amazing work Rho

[@christopherbeavers8344]

At 8:00 you talk about the bleeding. I look at it as the mortal wound from the fight upon the vengeful spirit. His mortal wound still bleeding.

[@ChristianMcCreaOfficial]

In several grail stories, the question is always "who am i?" wrapped in other questions of faith etc. So thematically i think the story hints at Lion asking who he is and the figure being awoken to speak a new riddle or figurative idea. The candleabra are often used as memoria in mid 20th C fiction so i take the items as Memory, Mission and Family/Bloodline. I did feel the hint about healing the figure was heading towards a vampiric healing - he needs to consume a son to heal. Which is pretty damn grim so im sticking with it.

[@aurelcorstan5242]

I think that one of the main differences between the two Returns is that Robute woke up in the middle of a fight, whereas The Lion was in a "dream". Dreams are symbolic and mysterious. War, in your face, is nothing but that.

[@Majkieboy]

He's actually Malcador the Sigillite

[@oldeskul]

I feel that the reason why this aspect of the Emperor didn't speak to the Lion was because he knew that though the gods of chaos couldn't break through into the forest, they could still look and listen, and he wasn't able to speak directly lest the great enemy were to see and hear what his plans are.

[@AnAverageSpleen]

Any video discussing the Lion deserves a "like" !! Cheers fella

[@thundercrash4775]

I could see the candelabra being a reference to the secondary Astronomicon that Celestine allowed the Alpha Legion warband to take. A candelabra is meant to provide light after all.

[@zlboyle90]

The candelabra could represent the astronomicon.

[@ryant2112]

In addition - the three relics are three different very important people - The Spear is the Spear of Russ - used to indicate Russ’ important return to the setting. The Candelabra is Valdor, as seen as he is the king in yellow. The Chalice is the Angel. Sanguinius. This is what it is, but it doesn’t mean he will be resurrected into the setting. Perhaps the warp entity that visited Dante and has also been at work in the area might empower and make a much more powerful avatar out of the Sanguinor or highly elevate Dante into even more of a badass.

[@cdickenson82]

The spear represents either Valdor or Russ has been my guess and the chalice was obviously Sanguinius, especially with the visions and directions given to Mephiston and Dante of and by Sanguinius. The candelabra completely eludes me still.

[@SecretsHIS]

Elite video!

[@LysimedVenteel]

I see the spear as symbolic as Russ or Valdor, perhaps.

[@OldGoat-cw8he]

I see the candelabra as the Emperor's light shining through the chaos

[@Areckahn]

The fisher king vibes of this story are way to string to be a coincidence. The king is the guardian of the grail (challice), and is depicted as being wounded by a bloodied lance (spear) which may be the Lance of Longinus. Would love to see a video discussing this in detail.

[@Mrgoldenboi]

Another great video hope you get better soon and what do you think the other loyalist primarchs awaking they're true potential like corvus did and how the lion is trying to control his of teleporting

[@majorgrumpybum3161]

Bleeding Spear and chalice...something like the quest for the holy grail. Candelabra? Illumination? Truth?

[@tvorogmoloko7969]

Maybe it is a king from depech mode's "enjoy the silence" music video? And he just wants to, well, enjoy the silence?

[@randomjaddis9680]

My take away of this old king is that of an aspect of the Emperors gestalt psyche. With all those powerful pyskers joined as one, it would make sense that the disparate pieces are doing what they can to bring about his vision

[@thrasher99999]

My theory is that it could be either the Emperor or the remainder of Malcador's soul, unable to move on entirely but doesn't have the strength left to speak beyond his small gestures. As for the items on the table? My thoughts were three of the other primarchs. The chalice related to Sanguinius, the spear to Russ, and while I don't know about the candelabra I'm thinking maybe Dorn? I know it's a reach but I think it's starting to set in place the return or development is the other primarchs.

[@renaissancepress247]

The shadow could be the Tyranids perhaps, predatory animals. It would also be cool if the old king is a future Lion. The warp does funny things with time after all.

[@danbrown2473]

Expecting a plot twist of it being Luther or Malcador projecting help to him.

[@timothyseger8720]

Maybe he’s just a construct built by the emperor. That’s why it’s unlocking is so specific

[@jakebaczik7785]

Jeeez it just dawned on me, he hold him to find the king in yellow, all the items were gold, and all have a connection to Valdor

[@PXCharon]

If he was in a Rowboat. It must be Girlyman in disguise.

[@v02max75]

This is 100% the Emperor, in one form or another. The fact that he doesn't really give the Lion what he thinks he needs only tells me that big E has about 100 trillion plates spinning at any one time, thus necessitating a "correct" question to illicit a response. If the Lion doesn't ask the right question, the Emperor may not even "hear" him at all. As far as the objects go, the spear and chalice are somewhat obvious(Russ and Sangy, but we don't know HOW they relate to said individuals) The candelabra is strange....do we know how many arms this one has? If it has 7, I would very much put my money on Vulkan(talisman of 7 hammers or whatever it is) and also fire (salamanders?) The other option that occurs to me about the spear could be the spear given to the Custodian guy(can't remember his name, sorry) who may now be the king in yellow? But I do believe this is definitely the Emperor, in some form

[@peterga3658]

nice i needed NEW VIDEO 40K to Watch

[@aquavitae3824]

"How much wood Could a woodchuck chuck!?"

[@thisistherevolt]

In regards to the Fisher King imagery and the mission of Russ, the Holy Grail that could be a universal heal or cure is currently sitting in a cage in Nurgle's Garden and named Isha. Usually the grail is not an actual chalice, but a woman in these tales.

[@thisistherevolt]

With the Ynnead storyline basically stuck in the mud, getting Isha out of Nurgle's grasp could be the jumpstart necessary to advance it, as the rumor mills have been suggesting we might finally be getting a proper Exodite army before the end of tenth edition. Who better than Isha to kick start that faction? Not as a model, but as a spiritual leader and whatnot.

[@ryant2112]

It is either the Emperor or the avatar of the Imperium in some form. The draining and wound explains either and both. The Emperor is powerful enough to keep watch for the chaos in the water and the shadows on the wall. But he gains power and drains at the same time. Just like the Imperium. They gain a Primarch but does that just extend the agony of a slow death? Could be either/both.

[@Irishman1861]

Just got to say our time is cannon so Big E could have seen the last crusade.

[@mattruecker5861]

Imo the candelabra represents the dark imperium, Nihilis... for it lacks light The chalice represents the rebirth of the emperor the giving of life through the efforts of the figures represented on it. Russ's quest And the bloody spear is Valdor's king in yellow army of crazy blanks etc

[@UncleMikeDrop]

He's probably a fragment of the Emperor. That is GW's M.O. more and more often lately.

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

I think the Emperor wasn't created by the shamans, like Cawl did with others, they bound their souls to the Emperor to be able to influence and steer him because as humans they couldn't. Creating what the Emperor is today, a multi souled being. The Shard is the original Emperor and what remains is the compilation of multiple souls including Malcador and all those who sacrificed, unwittingly causing madness to him because all of the souls and their personalities are fracturing him and drove him insane. Malcador obviously knew that's what could happen but he only did it once and likely hoped that he would only need to do it once to revive him, he didn't anticipate they continue too do it if it failed.

[@anthonybermudez416]

remnant of malcador's mind still tied to the throne

[@scratthesquirrel5242]

it might be worth noting that the wounded fisher king is from arthurian legends, who guards the holy grail. lion might be arthur, and the fisher king might be the emperor. the question is what is the holy grail? anathema powers perhaps?

[@jacobdarling1524]

I think the king I’m the boat was the friends we made along the way

[@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind]

I'm admittedly biased as Valdor is one of my favorite 40k characters... But, whan I first read that passage I immediately thought those symbols meant Valdor the King in Yellow. The candelabra, is for the palace in the city of dust, the spear is Valdor himself, and the chalice is 'the blood' the army of modified Blood Angels. Ive also thought that maybe it represents the original Imperial Triumvirate. An administrator, a warrior, and a ruling king The candelabra being the palace, the administration of the Imperium, originally Malcador. The spear being the military leader, Valdor. And the Chalice being the ruling figurehead, the emperor. Perhaps the Lion is supposed to reform the triumvirate. There is now an administrator in Robute, a warrior in the Lion, and maybe the Lion is supposed to find one who can be the ruling figurehead. Much like imperium secundus

[@logangrimnar3800]

The golden spear, the chalice and candleabra appear as references to the spear that slashed Jesus, the holy grail and the minora from judaism. As for 40k connections the bloody chalice likely refrences the thousand psykers sacrificially fed to the emperor, the candleabra the light of the Astronomicon and the spear is perhaps Sanguinius, or the bloodshed of the Imperial forces as a whole.

[@positivelyacademical1519]

What if it’s the Dark King? Cast out, wounded by its separation from the Emperor, atrophied since the time of the Heresy. The dark shadows the first four Chaos gods seeking to recover the part of their collective power lost to the fifth.

[@tauras3108]

It could be a part of he Lion himself when he was wounded and in stasis after 10,000 years and circled by chaos. Maybe ?

[@RaimoKangasniemi]

The emperor's humanity and compassion which he cast away? Some part of the Lion himself he needs to unlock to grow even stronger? Fragment of Horus he send forward in time before his defeat... ;)

[@eichler721]

The chalice could be referring to the Blood Angels as that's part of their history. The Spear is either Valdor or Russ. The Candleabra a I have no idea.

[@jasonweeks6318]

alot of us think the Goblet and Spear are references to Sanguinius and to Russ.

[@liamjones1622]

So if we're to believe the various artifacts represent primarchs, i.e chalice = sanguinius, spear = russ/valdor (a primarch in everything but name) then why not the candelabra... For ferrus manus? The legion of the damned are often described as being aflame and a beacon of hope in the darkest moments, both applicable to the aspect of a candle. What holds the candles, the legion, together? The candelabra, ferrus manus, former of the iron hands and primarch of the damned.

[@jacobluden3903]

I think the candelabra is a reference to the astronomicon or choral engine. The spears are obviously Russ or Valdor. The chalice is interesting, that's stumping me ATM but maybe the figures on it are Lion and Robute holding up the imperium??????

[@paulmusgrave2243]

Maybe but a religious candelabra is 7 branched.That could mean his remaining sons.The chalice meaning faith.GW do use real world history

[@robertmartens9072]

Could the artifacts maybe be linking to the sanguinor somehow? with the figures molded to it be representing the two angels who died to make the sanguinors identity a secret? spear being the sanguinors weapon and the candelabra being the flame they burnt all the ribbons and things they used in the ritual

[@robertmartens9072]

And this is probably farfetched but maybe the wounded king is a fragment of sanguinious himself hence why the lion didnt recognise him as his father.

[@bluemilk4meify]

So did cypher show up to ask if the lion has fallen yet, and he got told not yet? No, im stoned? K

[@viridisxiv766]

in a word. yes. of course. and i love the imagery.

[@thh420]

sounds like Malcador the Sigillite to me.

[@jimatulkerriganus4316]

I think what the lion is seeing is the soul of caliban itself

[@bluemilk4meify]

so are they going the devinci code, holy blood holy grail route? With holy blood being the holy grail

[@TomosByrne]

What if when lion el gets to terra and sees the emperor. He walks up to the throne and just stabs him through the chest. He could know (either through the watchers or otherwise) that the emperor is a perpetual. And that is right to the fastest way of having a full powered emperor back?

[@jonharrison9222]

Fisher King reworked. It refers to the emperor.

[@ichbineinberliner1776]

You fully forgot your Arthurian Legends. The King with the fishing rod, with the wound is clearly meant to draw the parallels to the Fisher King. He too was wounded by a spear. A wounded king of a wounded realm. The King could only be healed when Parceval asks the right question. The grail-legend is older than Christianity, too. So less Indiana Jones, more The Mists of Avalon, please.

[@rithmantyr]

One might go searching for "eternalhauntedsummer" and "the wounded king" and follow the trail from there... The Emperor Protects.

[@bigjohn697791]

The Chalice and Spear sound like Blood Angels maybe Sanguinius. I don't know what the candelabra is about? Any thoughts any one?

[@CrispinBac0n]

Great hearing tho do some narration again❤

[@CrispinBac0n]

*Rho

[@AstralTraveler]

"The lion sleeps tonight"

[@ryansauchuk7290]

Lion: must be a king Watchers: how can you tell Lion: he hasn't got shit all over im

[@UncleMikeDrop]

What if Lion el Johnson can only comprehend only part of the right question? Perhaps , something of ALL the Loyalist Primarchs is required for that question to be asked and the answer revealed. Some truths are too much for even a single being even a Primarch to handle.

[@JustinB-e6o]

Spear of destiny, holy grail, candelabra( symbol of gods eternal presence)

[@wreid4995]

The old wounded king is the Imperium. Wounded and dying.

[@paulmusgrave2243]

Could it be Malcador’s soul in the warp?was it ever said his soul was destroyed?if Primarchs souls can wonder the warp then someone who has the power to kill a Primarch surely can.Also explains why the Lion didn’t sense the Emperor.

[@louielofterra1862]

It too easy to be the Emperor i say perhaps it Luther weathered my time and surround by chaos and the question is maybe something about the loin forgiving Luther i think something like that would be cool or a wild one however but could the king be malcador ?

[@Pedroz0r]

I agree that it is most likely The Emperor but as I listened to this a crazy idea came to me…. What if withered wounded king is none other that the Lion’s own brother…… Horus?

[@burniejarvis9298]

What if it's a creation of the emperors memory of Malcador?

[@kinesta]

The multiple candelabras could be Alpharius?

[@paulmusgrave2243]

Maybe or the 7 sons still remaining

[@j1gsaw]

It would be fun if it was malcador, I don't it is though.

[@carljhirst]

Only One King of Caliban. The Lion! The King, he sees, represents the Pinnacle of Authority! The other objects are representations of the tools of the Emperor, the Primarks!

[@anthonybermudez416]

this calliban is a version of the warp itself, the castle ie terra and the throne, the figure fishing is big e baiting the 4 powers to keep thier attention away from the primarchs

[@jprovorse4159]

We named the dog Indiana. 😂😂😂

[@ser-Ike]

I'd say he's more cherokee than hitite, hitites are east African if I recall...🤔

[@dfailsthemost]

Was he fishing for the shadows?

[@forgefathervulkanhestan18]

Any way it could be something to do with Luther?

[@jmrjmr4421]

I’ve poking around at your vids for some time. Love the narrative. Love the voice. Not enough viewer. After some beers and being incoherent mentally; 1. Stop explaining where to find the lore. We know. 2. If we are coming to the tube for 40k we want spoilers! Stop explaining that. 3. 2/3 of the.commentary is rehashing the first 1/3. “Tell me what you think in the comments” stick is… what ever. 4. Non spoiler announcements makes someone want to go find it else. 5. It’s to the point where it’s fine to just read the the title and go find additional info elsewhere. 6. Again, 2-3 minutes of dopey spoiler warnings then how to find the paid lore, maybe 5 minutes of subject, then repeat subject for 10+ minutes. Finally- Tell me what you think in the comment! But why? Have to admit I keep coming back and checking on the content. Find myself just reading the title more and more though.

[@kensheets9714]

the wounded king= the wolfking?

[@toddolson4614]

Malcador

[@jakebaczik7785]

But it's the emp'ror

[@chrismills2439]

something a chalice is also used to describe is a part of a woman's body.....

[@UncleMikeDrop]

None living fully understand who or what the Emperor truly is.

[@FnRenner]

Upon returning the primarchs should have been given more appropriate gear. Johnson should have had the Emperor's sword. Guilleman the Emperor's helm. Dorn should get the Emperor's shield. The Kahn should get the Emperor's chest piece. Russ is the Emperor's spear. The Emperor's cape to Corax. Vulcan could get a hammer or blueprints for a new weapon. Just a thought or two.

[@JZ0UK]

Well... The objects are all on a surface level christian ritual symbols. The there's a spear and a abdominal wound, so christ and lance of longinus, candles and chalices being very mass... In revelation there's a hilariously bizarre scene of kings and beasts gathered round a throne. But specifically in canon, Jonson doesn't know what to ask, there's a spear, valdor had a spear which could learn any answer... So Jonson needs to get on with finding the king in yellow.

[@invictusaegis2653]

❤

[@glyngreen538]

100% obvious from the text it’s the Emperor? Does anyone really think otherwise? Seems like a pointless video this time…