The Poetry of Reality | Peter Boghossian & Richard Dawkins

Peter Boghossian has been inspired by the work of preeminent evolutionary biologist, author, and atheist Richard Dawkins for years. In this conversation, they discuss various impingements of delusional thinking on rationality.
Richard is unsettled by the substitution hypothesis-the proposal that as one religion fades, another will take its place. Yet, he recognizes the transfer of religious structures into Woke dogma, including the replacements of white privilege for Biblical original sin and trans ideology for Catholic transubstantiation. Richard says he’s wasted his life if humans are destined to embrace a default level of delusional thinking from one source or another.
Peter and Richard consider whether some delusions are more benign than others and if the lesser of the evils should be accepted. Richard proposes that scientific thinking and evidence-based belief could replace irrationality, saying the wonders of science provide a “nearly spiritual experience.”
Also discussed: Fermi’s paradox, natural selection, extraterrestrial genetics, skeletal gender, Lamarck vs Darwin, the ideological capture of science journals, tribal belief, and two mysteries unanswered by science.
Richard Dawkins is a bestselling author and award-winning evolutionary biologist. He is an advocate for scientific literacy and an outspoken critic of creationism. His most notable books are The God Delusion and The Selfish Gene, both selling millions of copies internationally. Richard’s latest book is Flights of Fancy: Defying Gravity by Design and Evolution. Richard hosts The Poetry of Reality podcast and is on the board of the Center for Inquiry.
Website: richarddawkins.com/links
"The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-R...
"The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-A...
"Flights of Fancy: Defying Gravity by Design and Evolution" by Richard Dawkins www.amazon.com/Flights-Fancy-...
The Poetry of Reality (Podcast) thepoetryofreality.com/
Center for Inquiry centerforinquiry.org/
Twitter @RichardDawkins
Chapters
0:00 Intro
3:40 Substitution hypothesis
7:50 Levels of delusion
12:50 How to prevent an ideology’s domino effect
14:55 Tribalism
19:00 Is transgenderism culture-bound?
24:30 The beauty of science and evidence
30:00 Skeletons of natal women vs natal men
35:00 How woke people justify their beliefs
39:10 What makes people rational
41:35 Satisfaction in science
44:30 Fermi paradox
47:00 Natural selection
⸺SUPPORT MY WORK⸺
Newsletter | boghossian.substack.com/
Donate | www.nationalprogressalliance....
⸺LINKS⸺
Podcast: "Conversations with Peter Boghossian": pod.link/1650150225
Website | peterboghossian.com/
National Progress Alliance | www.nationalprogressalliance....
Resignation Letter | peterboghossian.com/my-resign...
⸺BOOKS⸺
“How To Have Impossible Conversations” | www.amazon.com/dp/0738285323/...
“A Manual For Creating Atheists” | www.amazon.com/Manual-Creatin...
⸺SOCIAL MEDIA⸺
Twitter | / peterboghossian
Instagram | / peter.boghossian
TikTok | / peterboghossian
All Socials | linktr.ee/peterboghossian
__________
#peterboghossian #richarddawkins

[@brianmeen2158]

Peter is killing it with the guest lineup 👍👍

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you! Hope you enjoy the conversation.

[@willowsilver11]

Excellent conversations

[@sammykays5858]

Triple jabbed vax addict better be careful, he's going to 'climate change' himself.

[@i1337Thinker]

​@@drpeterboghossian😊

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

​@@drpeterboghossian, you are urged to become VEGAN, since carnism (the destructive ideology that supports the use and consumption of animal products, especially for “food”) is arguably the foremost existential crisis.🌱

[@-Monad-]

I don't know if I've ever seen Dawkins as unguarded and relaxed as he is in this interview. Peter really nailed this one.

[@sammykays5858]

Never thought Boghossian would ever admit to being a triple jabbed vax addict😆

[@theinnerlight8016]

Agreed. Only Richard's last interview with Christopher Hitchens comes to mind. He was very unguarded there too.

[@ohalloranjames]

exactly what i thought. some of his conversations with lawrence krauss are much like this. pleasant and refreshing eh

[@VesnaVK]

The original Four Horsemen video with Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Dan Dennett, too.

[@miroirs-jumeaux]

phrasing! 😂

[@jonmoceri]

If it wasn't for the 'Grievance Studies Affair' at Portland State University, we wouldn't have Boghossian doing these amazing interviews. So thank you PSU!

[@normanthrelfall2646]

The Miracle of the Atom The Laws of physics that exist are due to the activity within the atom, which is finely tuned in order for us to exist and as we know atoms are required for life. The main energy level occupied by an electron during orbit is dictated by its fixed distance from the nucleus of the atom. This is relative to electron and proton attraction. There are constants within the atom, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the protons relative to each other. All orbitals that have the same value “N” being the main energy level relates to the quantum number and are said to share the same shell level. Protons are subatomic particles which are charged in relation to the nucleus, electrons are attracted towards them because they have opposite electrical charges; this fine tuning keeps them in orbit around the nucleus making the development of life possible as we know it. The atom is a miracle of design not an accident waiting to happen. Everything is made up of atoms which are finely tuned for the building blocks of life and also they create the environment necessary for the existence of life. The conditions on our own earth in particular are finely tuned being described as biophilic in which life as we know it can flourish. If any of the fundamental constants like the speed of light or the strength of gravity were to change just a little, then life as we know it would cease to exist. This realization has led some physicists to argue that our universe is intelligently designed, made especially for us, no accident waiting to happen. We live in a finely tuned universe perfectly primed in order to support life. There is irreducible complexity within the atom never mine the cell as atoms make up cells and are responsible for life as we know it. Atoms are unique and their atomic number dictates what substance or chemical property they have. Carbon for instance has an atomic number of 6 positively charged protons in the nucleus. Atoms are essential building blocks of life, for example the body contains fat which is made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Carbon atoms because of their unique make-up also bond strongly to other elements such as hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen because they have branches or rings of various sizes that contain thousands of atoms, carbon is quite accommodating with other substances. These have unique atomic numbers that make life possible. Atoms suffer from irreducible complexity because all the electrons, protons and neutrons must be present at the same time in a particular number and order, for the atom to function as a designated substance. This knowledge dispenses with the idea of mutations and natural selection relating to chemical interactions. Life on the earth is based on carbon chemistry. Carbon is used in organic matter such as our bodies for instance in order to maintain life. They silently carry out important chemical reactions within our bodies and they are essential to life on the earth. Carbon atoms make up the sun, stars, comets and the atmosphere of most planets. Carbon is found in coal, oil, diamonds and natural gas deposits. The atom is clearly designed and many physicists now recognise this, but they won’t use the word God or Creator, they would sooner believe aliens were responsible, but the question is then begged who made the aliens? The term atom really means invisible unit or uncuttable, and for a long time it was thought that the atom could not be split, but when they did, it produced the atomic bomb. An infinite intelligence made the various atoms which are so small and are measured as being one tenth of a billionth of a metre across. They are so small that they cannot be seen under a powerful microscope. We are led to believe that all our sophisticated atoms are derived from an invented primordial complex soup of chemicals which then produced the first living cells. Remember each atom is unique due to its composition and arrangement of subatomic particles relative to the number of protons in the nucleus. This is no accident waiting to happen! A primordial soup is purely fictitious and based on fantasy and imagination because men do not want to retain God in their knowledge. Jesus did not lie to us concerning him being the Son of God and the Saviour of the world. He said that men shall give an account for every idle word spoken, except they repent of their sins!

[@hester234]

The fact that a kind-mannered, straightforward and honest scientist like Richard Dawkins is discarded so frequently merely on the basis of his skin color, age and sex ("old white man") is so mind-boggling. So many people lost the ability to value content of character and opinion over superficial biological characteristics. It's a deeply racist, deeply "agist", sexist attitude being displayed by those who claim to fight against those things.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Are YOU racist? 🤔 I would appreciate if you would be PERFECTLY honest when responding to my question: if you were walking down a street in the middle of the night, and a group of Negro men were approaching on your side of the street, while a group of Japanese guys were approaching you on the other side of the street, would you cross the road?😬 Obviously, I’m assuming that you didn’t know anything about the individuals in question - ONLY their respective race.🤓

[@theinnerlight8016]

It's called racism.

[@commandershepard9920]

Who is saying this? Examples? Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case, but I was curious because I hadn't seen it yet.

[@mks1975a]

@@commandershepard9920 the only recent trend I can recall is because when he criticizes religion (which was all relations an increase focus has been on any of his comments linked to Islam) leading to in 2021 when the American Humanist Association withdrew the award they'd given him in 1996

[@tekkencentre]

These people will never even hear what he has to say, because ''old white men' are not worth listening to. It's a shameful mindset.

[@gpknee]

A brilliant 52 minutes of conversation. Dr. Dawkins is one of the great, courageous men of our time, and I loved listening to him answer your questions, Dr. B.

[@reddragonready]

"courageous"...I think not...how many jabs did he have and how much longer is he promoting that nonsense?

[@cosmodrifter]

Fantastic to see two of my favorite gentlemen having such an awesome, interesting and intellectual discussion. Thank you so much Peter for bringing on Mr. Dawkins!

[@drpeterboghossian]

You’re very welcome. Thanks to Professor Dawkins!

[@i1337Thinker]

​@@drpeterboghossian❤

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

​@@drpeterboghossian 2:10 You took the Commie Jab? 💉 😢😮😂

[@nikokapanen82]

@@ReverendDr.Thomas So, how are those conspiracies doing about this jab being the mark of the beast?

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

@@nikokapanen82, kindly repeat that in ENGLISH, Miss.☝️ Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱

[@gregarruda112]

Great conversation gentlemen .

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you!

[@Danboy0001]

​@@drpeterboghossianHi Peter. The "substitution" hypothesis is a very old idea. Everyone needs to believe in something. I think you have misframed your good idea though, in too negative a way. Every belief system will ultimately need to take a leap of faith, even your own material worldview (eg, is there objective truth, or morality, or beauty, etc). There is evidence for all of this, but no evidence exists that is determimative, and all require a leap of "faith". The question is WHICH leap(s) of faith you want to take. Roman Catholicism for example (like your material worldview) does require some leaps. It, in my view, requires fewer leaps of faith, and also less extreme jumps, and more reasonable jumps / more evidence for the view, than the materialist worldview. Clearly not everyone is convinced, but I think the framing in this conversation was something of a strawman.

[@matweb8195]

A truly delightful conversation.

[@mptyyegdlc]

Peter Boghossian and Richard Dawkins.... I HAVE to watch this !!

[@drpeterboghossian]

You must!

[@michellehudson6865]

. Can't wait for this. Thanks Peter & Richard.

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you!!

[@ivantucakov1598]

Amazing! Thank you for upholding intellectual honesty in this world that has lost its way.

[@Eviljubs]

I could have listened to 8 hours of this. Easily. So fantastic.

[@mairmatt]

In German there's a dictum that - quite bumpy - translates to: every time something has been made foolproof evolution counters with better fools.

[@daybreaker2810]

Most underrated podcast of all time, revelations abundant🙏🏻👍🏻

[@miroirs-jumeaux]

Why does “feeling like a woman feels” seem so plausible to people? How and why is it different from claiming to “feel like a lamprey” inside?

[@blindjusticeandcommonsense2786]

Adults (over 18) cannot consent to any of the trans medical suff either. Why? Because they are expressing an irrational desire. Expressing irrational ideas. Irrational to the point where they cannot be meaningfully considered to be capable of giving informed consent.

[@tonystewart7624]

That was a very beautiful conversation. Thank you for making it happen.

[@drpeterboghossian]

Our pleasure!

[@lolalaise4530]

Oh my god I’ve been on a Peter and Richard binge lately, couldn’t be happier seeing this notification🤩 you men are truly on the right side of history.

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you!

[@brianw.5230]

Except for the atheism. I'm an ex-atheist. It's an existential dead end.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

What does it mean to be on the "right side of history?" Do you think that historical retrospect will lionize transphobes and anti"woke" hystericals?

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@brianw.5230 It has nothing to say about existential questions, but it's fun that you think god fantasies are somehow existentially sound. Inventing magical beings is a child's recourse.

[@lolalaise4530]

@@highroller-jq3ix I think detransitioners will sue and trans kids will grow up and sue and this will be known as the wildest medical scandal since lobotomy’s

[@alexandragrace8164]

Unweaving the Rainbow has been my favourite book since I was 14!

[@realistic_delinquent]

The Ancestor’s tale has been mine.

[@bsedgal]

Thanks Dr Boghossian. Your work helped me both deconvert from fundamentalism and prevent conversion to wokeism.

[@drpeterboghossian]

Very grateful for your donation!

[@stevejhkhfda]

Wonderful to see you Peter talking with Richard, a man whom you respect so much as so many of us do.

[@newtalking3]

Thanks Peter for working so hard on these interviews We were waiting for you❤

[@pbziegler]

I could listen to conversations like this one all day long. Peter you are making a difference in this world

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Promoting hateful bigotry might just do that.

[@normanthrelfall2646]

The Miracle of the Atom The Laws of physics that exist are due to the activity within the atom, which is finely tuned in order for us to exist and as we know atoms are required for life. The main energy level occupied by an electron during orbit is dictated by its fixed distance from the nucleus of the atom. This is relative to electron and proton attraction. There are constants within the atom, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the protons relative to each other. All orbitals that have the same value “N” being the main energy level relates to the quantum number and are said to share the same shell level. Protons are subatomic particles which are charged in relation to the nucleus, electrons are attracted towards them because they have opposite electrical charges; this fine tuning keeps them in orbit around the nucleus making the development of life possible as we know it. The atom is a miracle of design not an accident waiting to happen. Everything is made up of atoms which are finely tuned for the building blocks of life and also they create the environment necessary for the existence of life. The conditions on our own earth in particular are finely tuned being described as biophilic in which life as we know it can flourish. If any of the fundamental constants like the speed of light or the strength of gravity were to change just a little, then life as we know it would cease to exist. This realization has led some physicists to argue that our universe is intelligently designed, made especially for us, no accident waiting to happen. We live in a finely tuned universe perfectly primed in order to support life. There is irreducible complexity within the atom never mine the cell as atoms make up cells and are responsible for life as we know it. Atoms are unique and their atomic number dictates what substance or chemical property they have. Carbon for instance has an atomic number of 6 positively charged protons in the nucleus. Atoms are essential building blocks of life, for example the body contains fat which is made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Carbon atoms because of their unique make-up also bond strongly to other elements such as hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen because they have branches or rings of various sizes that contain thousands of atoms, carbon is quite accommodating with other substances. These have unique atomic numbers that make life possible. Atoms suffer from irreducible complexity because all the electrons, protons and neutrons must be present at the same time in a particular number and order, for the atom to function as a designated substance. This knowledge dispenses with the idea of mutations and natural selection relating to chemical interactions. Life on the earth is based on carbon chemistry. Carbon is used in organic matter such as our bodies for instance in order to maintain life. They silently carry out important chemical reactions within our bodies and they are essential to life on the earth. Carbon atoms make up the sun, stars, comets and the atmosphere of most planets. Carbon is found in coal, oil, diamonds and natural gas deposits. The atom is clearly designed and many physicists now recognise this, but they won’t use the word God or Creator, they would sooner believe aliens were responsible, but the question is then begged who made the aliens? The term atom really means invisible unit or uncuttable, and for a long time it was thought that the atom could not be split, but when they did, it produced the atomic bomb. An infinite intelligence made the various atoms which are so small and are measured as being one tenth of a billionth of a metre across. They are so small that they cannot be seen under a powerful microscope. We are led to believe that all our sophisticated atoms are derived from an invented primordial complex soup of chemicals which then produced the first living cells. Remember each atom is unique due to its composition and arrangement of subatomic particles relative to the number of protons in the nucleus. This is no accident waiting to happen! A primordial soup is purely fictitious and based on fantasy and imagination because men do not want to retain God in their knowledge. Jesus did not lie to us concerning him being the Son of God and the Saviour of the world. He said that men shall give an account for every idle word spoken, except they repent of their sins!

[@hermitrob5481]

Could listen to Professor Dawkins all night. And sometimes do.

[@drpeterboghossian]

He is amazing!

[@Jthom88]

It's interesting to me hearing Dawkins talk about spirituality, considering his radical criticisms of the matter previously. I've not been the biggest fan of Dawkins in the past, but I'll watch this conversation openly to see if he's updated himself in a way I can appreciate.

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you for being a member of the channel and for the honest comment. I appreciate it!

[@Jthom88]

After watching this interview I have to say, this is probably the most humility I've seen from Dawkins in 2 decades. To be fair, I tuned out about 12 years ago as the radical atheism was itself almost as dogmatic as the Abrahamic religions it was rallying against (though in spirit I respect and mostly agree with the criticisms of Abrahamism itself as tyrannical). The biggest danger from that has unfortunately come true, insofar as science has become the new religion - filling the (Nietzschean) void left behind in the wake of the "death" of Christianity. Now, lives are sacrificed on the altar of science in service of "truth" - forgetting that scientific truth is fundamentally provisional, not absolute. I genuinely appreciated listening to Dawkins for the first time in quite a while, and I was pleasantly surprised to see him turning towards a more spiritual and less radically atheistic position. I also think the substitution hypothesis is most definitely true. This was Nietzsche's point (in part) I think - that the death of God would leave such a void, which would itself be filled invariably by a new religious dogma rooted in some new, inevitably false religion. The dangers of science as a religion should be obvious for those who truly understand Hume's is-ought gap. And we tarnish science by elevating it to the status of religion, consciously or unconsciously, because it is an empirical rather than transcendent method of acquiring and establishing truth based on evidence. I'm in the weeds now a bit, but in sum this interview gave me a new appreciation for Dawkins and allowed me to rethink and transcend past prejudices. So much so I think I will check out the Poetry of Reality and go through a present day revisiting of his material. So, thank you for making me rethink and update my own self and beliefs. This conversation gave me MUCH to think about, and more than I bargained for (in the best way possible). Cheers.

[@JamesParsons512]

Peter and Richard - a wonderful pairing of intelligence and considered thought. I absolutely enjoyed this conversation.

[@RGDunphy]

Another great conversation with Richard Dawkins.

[@jshays007]

Regarding Will Thomas (who is 6'4") ... Your Rights end where mine begin and my Rights end where yours begin. We don't divide our Rights like cutting up a pie ... We ALL get a whole pie ... So Will Thomas does not have the Right to invade and occupy Women's Spaces ... That is a horrendous Misogyny. 00:18:46

[@folee_edge]

Doctor Dawkins?? ❤ Two Heavy Hitting Former Professors and Current Intellectual Heroes ❤❤

[@SEPedersen]

Thank you for this, I was hoping for a conversation between you two!

[@drpeterboghossian]

You’re welcome!

[@christianbolt5761]

Great discussion. It is so important that notable intellectuals create a beach head to push back against the insanity. The cultists want others to feel out of step with the acceptable beliefs

[@kjellbjrnasmo480]

Fantastic conversation Peter.

[@phasis]

Wow. I’m speechless. Thank you!

[@commandershepard9920]

Easily some of the best content, in my opinion. I read many of Dawkins' books in high school. I was a big fan of him (still am). I hadn't seen him talk in a while, so this interview made me feel nostalgic.

[@o0o-jd-o0o95]

I do not see our world getting any better when we have so many people that are living in their own reality and not the real one

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Exactly. All of the theofascist fundies denying sound medical science are destroying all the gains of modern civil rights and secularism. The sickening thing is that agnostics and atheists in many cases will ride the hate train and align.

[@andrewmorton3344]

The fact Dawkins is willing to contemplate the ramifications of the substitution hypothesis on his own past behaviour shows his commitment to truth regardless of where it takes you. A great man.

[@BlessedFigTree]

Incredible crossover. Thank you. ❤

[@LouisGedo]

YES!!! Perfect introduction! Looking forward to this discussion!

[@academyofchampions1]

I’m a very religious conservative. I absolutely love how Peter thinks.

[@gulanhem9495]

Me too, I truly love Peter Boighossian (I'm a staunch conservative ethnic nationalist). But Dawkins on the other hand is a piece of human sh1t. 🤮 With his irrational hatred of x-ians and conservatives, he paved the way for both progressive woke leftists, mass migration and islam. He's partly responsible for this unintellectual, authoritarian and totalitarian woke marxist environment. 🥴

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you.

[@stargazerh112]

Yeah. It’s interesting how no other “race” inherits the sin of their “ancestors”, race

[@jamesclark6487]

They did before bulk international and intercontinental transport. There is a reason the wheel was still yet to be discovered by many cultures until it was delivered to them in the last few hundred years. Those peoples still do not interact well in the 1st world, they contribute a disproportionate amount sloth, theft, rape, and murder. That is because they carry that sin i.e. their forebears were too busy eating each other etc to develop sufficient social instinct.

[@theinnerlight8016]

What a beautiful treat! Thank you both for sharing this honest and interesting conversation with us. 🙏🖖

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you so much. I genuinely appreciate your contribution. It enables us to continue to do interviews like this.

[@theinnerlight8016]

@@drpeterboghossian I guess that's to our mutual benefit. 😊 Best wishes to you and your family from another huge Star Trek fan (tos, tng, ds9 and voyager)

[@lizparker8431]

Thank you for a wonderful conversation. 👏

[@jwollheim]

This is so great. Thanks!

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you!

[@padraigadhastair4783]

Thanks Peter, another great conversation with the perfect questions for the perfect guest. Cheers.

[@drpeterboghossian]

I appreciate that.

[@MackerelCat]

Excellent conversation, thank you.

[@bigboicreme]

Wow! So glad i found your channel!! What a great discussion

[@drpeterboghossian]

Welcome aboard!

[@sudenims5235]

People pleasing is toxic isn’t it. I used to do that but I “woke up” from my sickness and started working on the dysfunction. I disagree with calling Lia a she when he is a he. If we participate the lie we are enabling and causing ourselves cognitive dissonance. I have every empathy with people that have a need to trans (I wish them a great life) but they should not be able to change absolute truths or expect everyone else to lie with them.

[@kjellbjrnasmo480]

Wow! Every two hours there is a new interview 🤩

[@steelcurtain187]

Great guests and conversations lately! Keep up the good work

[@VaughanMcCue]

Fortunately, We have experiences like these, nothing less than a miracle.

[@intigeral727]

Intellectuals, of course, are never delusional.... 🤣

[@academyofchampions1]

Lol Peter called Lia Thomas “in tact”….. the same term we use for dogs that haven’t been neutered. He is correct.

[@oaxacachaka]

Great interview!

[@laugh629]

Dawkins is a class act. No name calling, no strawmen. He leads with empathy and gently provides reason. I hope he rubs off on some of the young guard of edgelord rationistas.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Where does the empathy happen? Time stamp please.

[@zerodivisionerror]

What's intriguing is that Dawkins frequently appears disinterested when engaging with people during interviews (which is not surprised, since the questions people ask him are often very similar), but that's not the case here. You can clearly see how involved he is and the genuine joy he derives from mental stimulation and conversing with Peter and the manner in which Peter expresses his ideas.

[@antbrown9066]

Richard Dawkins is one of the few very polite and articulate atheists of notoriety that can display a calm and intelligent discussion even against the toughest of Christian hardline apologists. This was even easier as Peter is very agreeable in the same camp.

[@shmuelrosenthal6661]

This channel just keeps getting better and better.

[@allyourbase888]

Beautiful. Thank you 🙏🏾🇺🇸❤️

[@thistles]

I’m just starting this, but I’m so excited! I love Dawkins. He’s one of the greats and made a huge difference in my life.

[@gulanhem9495]

He's a weak traitor. He should be expelled from all white nations and thrown into Arabia.

[@thistles]

Now that I’ve finished it, thank you for what you said at the end. You speak for me.

[@gulanhem9495]

@@thistles What he say?

[@thistles]

@@gulanhem9495 how he thanked Professor Dawkins for his work and example

[@nussbi]

This was an amazing and honest conversation between two intellectuals in the truest sense. love the quick step into the "original sin" argument. as an avid reader and listener of the great and late Christopher Hitchens and (ex-)Catholic, I can definitely see a line between wokeism and religion

[@highroller-jq3ix]

What is "wokeism" exactly and how does it qualify as a religion?

[@harryselwind]

@@highroller-jq3ix The meanings of words are plastic. They alter over time and in different contexts. There may be any number of definitions of wokism. For present purposes, I would refer you to, as a starting place, Peter Boghossian's own short video on the origins and development of the term "woke." Their are links you can follow for a better understanding of how the related concepts are used here. For the relationship between wokeism and religion, you could do worse than look at the clip of Peter in conversation with Douglas Murray. kzbin.info/www/bejne/noStqKOYlt6op6c kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6WYp4Klos52mdE I hope that helps answer your questions,

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@harryselwind If you understand the definition of the idiot and undefined term woke, paraphrase it for me instead of deferring to your transphobe cult leaders. For the relationship between imaginary "woke"ism and religion, I can't seem to do any better than vapid and hypocritical sophistry. Why do I give a shit what transpires between transphobes dogwhistling?

[@theartfuldodger8609]

'Intellectual titan'...he kicks off with..."you must be vaxxed?"... goodnight Irene...

[@avengemybreath3084]

Sounded like small talk to me, but in reality it is possible to be pretty well protected from infection for a period of time after injection.

[@colinellicott9737]

I find myself agreeing completely. Thx.

[@togsikmale5625]

Best interview thus far 👍🏻👍🏻

[@martynspooner5822]

I have immense respect for Mr Dawkins, an intelligent man who is also incredibly courteous even with those he profoundly disagrees with.. He is true to himself which can take great courage in the strange times we are living in.

[@larryparis925]

Upon being asked if, as one religion fades, does another one come in, Dawkins suggests, at 4:08 : "Gullibility expands to fill the vacuum." So concise.

[@ReeTM]

Love this. Thank you!

[@richardkrauss80]

Beautiful dialogue.

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

20:42 That makes absolutely no sense, you should respect the person because they’re really committed to their delusion? No that person is the most dangerous.

[@MajorVanBloodnok]

Wonderful little chat between intellectual titans. Pity I missed your epistemologies in London. Will you be back soon?

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thanks. I’m coming back soon!!

[@moonlightray8493]

Many thanks to both of you for such an insightful conversation! I had an amazing time at UATX's Forbidden Courses this year (especially during the street epistemology exercise where we discussed the literal resurrection of Jesus), and I really hope Professor Dawkins can be convinced to make an appearance next year! I really like Dawkins' parallel of the trans ideology with the Catholic dogma of transsubstantiation, and I definitely agree with the observation that at least religious believers are willing to admit that (part of) their conviction is due to just faith. That's why I prefer to call the woke ideology pesudoreligious, because it doesn't even have the admirable features of actual religions. Regarding the substitution hypothesis: what if, instead of replacing the alleged "God-shaped gap" with science/secular faith, we simply tried to close the void..? Would it not be more effective to train people to be more individualistic thinkers, and break them out that default desire to depend upon an external/social guidance system? Why assume that that gap must remain there at all?

[@emilykennedy7967]

This was a fantastic conversation between two fantastic humans that have taught me so much! I could’ve watched 3 more hours of this 🤓

[@normanthrelfall2646]

The Miracle of the Atom The Laws of physics that exist are due to the activity within the atom, which is finely tuned in order for us to exist and as we know atoms are required for life. The main energy level occupied by an electron during orbit is dictated by its fixed distance from the nucleus of the atom. This is relative to electron and proton attraction. There are constants within the atom, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the protons relative to each other. All orbitals that have the same value “N” being the main energy level relates to the quantum number and are said to share the same shell level. Protons are subatomic particles which are charged in relation to the nucleus, electrons are attracted towards them because they have opposite electrical charges; this fine tuning keeps them in orbit around the nucleus making the development of life possible as we know it. The atom is a miracle of design not an accident waiting to happen. Everything is made up of atoms which are finely tuned for the building blocks of life and also they create the environment necessary for the existence of life. The conditions on our own earth in particular are finely tuned being described as biophilic in which life as we know it can flourish. If any of the fundamental constants like the speed of light or the strength of gravity were to change just a little, then life as we know it would cease to exist. This realization has led some physicists to argue that our universe is intelligently designed, made especially for us, no accident waiting to happen. We live in a finely tuned universe perfectly primed in order to support life. There is irreducible complexity within the atom never mine the cell as atoms make up cells and are responsible for life as we know it. Atoms are unique and their atomic number dictates what substance or chemical property they have. Carbon for instance has an atomic number of 6 positively charged protons in the nucleus. Atoms are essential building blocks of life, for example the body contains fat which is made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Carbon atoms because of their unique make-up also bond strongly to other elements such as hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen because they have branches or rings of various sizes that contain thousands of atoms, carbon is quite accommodating with other substances. These have unique atomic numbers that make life possible. Atoms suffer from irreducible complexity because all the electrons, protons and neutrons must be present at the same time in a particular number and order, for the atom to function as a designated substance. This knowledge dispenses with the idea of mutations and natural selection relating to chemical interactions. Life on the earth is based on carbon chemistry. Carbon is used in organic matter such as our bodies for instance in order to maintain life. They silently carry out important chemical reactions within our bodies and they are essential to life on the earth. Carbon atoms make up the sun, stars, comets and the atmosphere of most planets. Carbon is found in coal, oil, diamonds and natural gas deposits. The atom is clearly designed and many physicists now recognise this, but they won’t use the word God or Creator, they would sooner believe aliens were responsible, but the question is then begged who made the aliens? The term atom really means invisible unit or uncuttable, and for a long time it was thought that the atom could not be split, but when they did, it produced the atomic bomb. An infinite intelligence made the various atoms which are so small and are measured as being one tenth of a billionth of a metre across. They are so small that they cannot be seen under a powerful microscope. We are led to believe that all our sophisticated atoms are derived from an invented primordial complex soup of chemicals which then produced the first living cells. Remember each atom is unique due to its composition and arrangement of subatomic particles relative to the number of protons in the nucleus. This is no accident waiting to happen! A primordial soup is purely fictitious and based on fantasy and imagination because men do not want to retain God in their knowledge. Jesus did not lie to us concerning him being the Son of God and the Saviour of the world. He said that men shall give an account for every idle word spoken, except they repent of their sins!

[@StellaCSpuhr]

Wow, this is another one of my favourite Brits as a guest here. I love these interviews. 🎉

[@barrybrown1125]

Great discussion, evidence based understanding of how the world works is the way to go. Being woke is trending but like all trends it will fade and then disappear and morph into something else in the future.

[@TIm_Bugge]

Beliefs are not usually not 'caused'. They are rarely a consequence of reason. Beliefs, expressed either by implication or explication, are post hoc adaptations that serve (at least) two functions; as justifications, they conserve calories otherwise spent honestly reasoning, and as virtue signals they communicate affinity.

[@utarian7]

What great two minds colliding!

[@chrispatten3482]

I love him referencing my favourite quote from GKC.

[@suesmith2183]

Dr. Boghossian is wonderful; I look forward to his programs all the time. But I don't know what Prof. Dawkins needs to debunk religion in order to make himself feel better. The poetry of reality can exist side by side with transcendent beliefs. Look no further than JS Bach.

[@tomgmaples]

I bought your book and and you're application. Used epistemology and I've come to the conclusion that humans need some Doctrine or they'll go wild it's an observation that many of us are beginning to understand. We just haven't evolved as much as one would like to think. It was an effort motivated after 9/11 because of the rise Islam.

[@welshgruff]

9/11 showed the effects of Doctrine. Do we need it?

[@penitentone6998]

​@@welshgruffsome do some don't

[@sosimple3585]

It's wonderful to watch you both talk so engagingly via a device that science decriers seem to forget was created by science.

[@shamsam4]

Good one! Yet again...

[@VesnaVK]

Justin Brierly discusses Peter Boghosian in the context of changes in atheist culture at some length in today's Rationality Rules, "How New Atheism Became Old." Starts around minute 8.

[@WilliamJohnston]

Peter, so glad to have just discovered your channel so soon after you conducted this fascinating conversation. I discovered your channel with the street discussions and you made such a good job of staying neutral I had to go looking for other videos of yours to get a clue. Keep up the great work!

[@davehall8584]

absolutely brilliant....i think Richard impressed me even more than ever...the detailing of how he knows kinda slipped out..

[@tomgreene1843]

Great to see this push back against nonsense and coercion.

[@Jenny-nz8fb]

Fantastic

[@ohalloranjames]

Its funny how many conversations begin on whether we caught corona virus. loved this gentle conversation thanks

[@jadehidalgo3437]

Execellent conversation I truly thoroughly enjoyed it- (& I’m Christian btw lol ) I usually always enjoy what you put out- but I gotta say, lately the guests and the discussion- TOP NOTCH!!!

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Yes, transphobes can cross any other ideological boundaries to join hands when it comes to this hate cult movement.

[@mryouben]

Thank you, gentlemen, for standing in the culture war trenches for us.

[@drpeterboghossian]

You are welcome.

[@lifeofbeautyk448]

When Peter mentioned being on his deathbed, he mentioned that Christians do good things so as not to go to hell, that's work-based religion. God is righteous. Therefore, he has a place for the unrighteous. There's not one thing a Christian can do besides except the free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.

[@name-vi6fs]

I started supporting the idea of substitution a few years ago. I raised all of my kids without religion. One of my kids started asking if they could go to a Christian church with a friend, and I told them they could go when they reach the age of 18. A couple of years later, that same child started saying they were gay, then bi, then trans, and they firmly believe in all of this woke stuff. To Dawkins comment about being a failure if substitution is true. If it wasn't for individuals like him and Hitchins, people like me would have experienced a much harder journey to get to where we are.

[@kittenclawsguitarvideos6147]

I enjoyed every minute of this interview, but I especially enjoyed the part when Richard was talking about natural selection and carbon-based life. A second interview exploring this would be amazing.

[@Somegirl51]

Love the tablecloth

[@sharifsalem]

Maybe they both ought to read what Morris’ daughter has to say about him.

[@annal2740]

Exactly. Two men with no skin in the game.

[@Grainne310]

Everyone should. Jan Morris was an awful person.

[@just_another32]

chapters are desperately needed... please. And thank you

[@drpeterboghossian]

They'll be there soon. Thanks for your patience!

[@deathbysloth]

Loved this. My newly-found atheist self first found Dawkins in his creationism debates on KZbin about 15 years ago. On that note, I first found you, Dr. Boghossian, from Penn Jillette's podcast years ago. I've fallen off listening to that after his consistently bad takes on the George Floyd incident, but I'd still love to see you interview Penn here, if you can.

[@dandrechesterfield5411]

Who had the bad take on George floyd? Peter or Penn?

[@deathbysloth]

@@dandrechesterfield5411 Penn. Several episodes in a row he and his cohosts would repeatedly say "We're 3 white guys, our opinions don't matter" or something to that effect. If they said that once, or ignored the subject entirely, I'd understand. But when I'm coming to someone specifically for the purpose of hearing their opinions, and they tell me multiple times that their own opinions don't matter, I will eventually agree. Especially when I was already utterly inundated with that POV everywhere else. I had listened to every episode of his podcast up to that point, but haven't listened since. I still like Penn (and Goudeau & Matt Donnelly for that matter), but I'm no longer a member of the Congregation of Penn's Sunday School.

[@dandrechesterfield5411]

@@deathbysloth yeah that would annoy me too

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@IIIJT]

Awesomeness

[@niksnell3857]

This is one for the ages Peter, thank you sir. As a person of faith this is so important

[@drpeterboghossian]

Thank you!

[@TheBerkeleyBeauty]

Peter, your guests are phenomenal. I really appreciate the civil discussion on your channel. I also resonate with being called a right winger when I have never cast a Republican vote in my entire life, and I’ve been voting since Michael Dukakis.

[@normanthrelfall2646]

The Miracle of the Atom The Laws of physics that exist are due to the activity within the atom, which is finely tuned in order for us to exist and as we know atoms are required for life. The main energy level occupied by an electron during orbit is dictated by its fixed distance from the nucleus of the atom. This is relative to electron and proton attraction. There are constants within the atom, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the protons relative to each other. All orbitals that have the same value “N” being the main energy level relates to the quantum number and are said to share the same shell level. Protons are subatomic particles which are charged in relation to the nucleus, electrons are attracted towards them because they have opposite electrical charges; this fine tuning keeps them in orbit around the nucleus making the development of life possible as we know it. The atom is a miracle of design not an accident waiting to happen. Everything is made up of atoms which are finely tuned for the building blocks of life and also they create the environment necessary for the existence of life. The conditions on our own earth in particular are finely tuned being described as biophilic in which life as we know it can flourish. If any of the fundamental constants like the speed of light or the strength of gravity were to change just a little, then life as we know it would cease to exist. This realization has led some physicists to argue that our universe is intelligently designed, made especially for us, no accident waiting to happen. We live in a finely tuned universe perfectly primed in order to support life. There is irreducible complexity within the atom never mine the cell as atoms make up cells and are responsible for life as we know it. Atoms are unique and their atomic number dictates what substance or chemical property they have. Carbon for instance has an atomic number of 6 positively charged protons in the nucleus. Atoms are essential building blocks of life, for example the body contains fat which is made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Carbon atoms because of their unique make-up also bond strongly to other elements such as hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen because they have branches or rings of various sizes that contain thousands of atoms, carbon is quite accommodating with other substances. These have unique atomic numbers that make life possible. Atoms suffer from irreducible complexity because all the electrons, protons and neutrons must be present at the same time in a particular number and order, for the atom to function as a designated substance. This knowledge dispenses with the idea of mutations and natural selection relating to chemical interactions. Life on the earth is based on carbon chemistry. Carbon is used in organic matter such as our bodies for instance in order to maintain life. They silently carry out important chemical reactions within our bodies and they are essential to life on the earth. Carbon atoms make up the sun, stars, comets and the atmosphere of most planets. Carbon is found in coal, oil, diamonds and natural gas deposits. The atom is clearly designed and many physicists now recognise this, but they won’t use the word God or Creator, they would sooner believe aliens were responsible, but the question is then begged who made the aliens? The term atom really means invisible unit or uncuttable, and for a long time it was thought that the atom could not be split, but when they did, it produced the atomic bomb. An infinite intelligence made the various atoms which are so small and are measured as being one tenth of a billionth of a metre across. They are so small that they cannot be seen under a powerful microscope. We are led to believe that all our sophisticated atoms are derived from an invented primordial complex soup of chemicals which then produced the first living cells. Remember each atom is unique due to its composition and arrangement of subatomic particles relative to the number of protons in the nucleus. This is no accident waiting to happen! A primordial soup is purely fictitious and based on fantasy and imagination because men do not want to retain God in their knowledge. Jesus did not lie to us concerning him being the Son of God and the Saviour of the world. He said that men shall give an account for every idle word spoken, except they repent of their sins!

[@davidbrinnen]

When Richard speaks of Natural Selection seeking out "Improvement" that can only be in terms of the suitability of those traits as they pertain to survival and reproduction within the current environment. In the Mad Max dystopian future we are barrelling towards, selection pressure will be in favour of very different traits to the ones we enjoy in this moment - the twilight of the civilized West. Then "the woke" will be the least of everyone's worries, as the sickly and weak-minded will be the first to be enslaved and eventually cooked and consumed as the food runs out. So silver lining?

[@BG-fm5od]

This topic is so important. Transgenderism has taken over atheist groups and people are too scared to say anything. Please keep it up with the science.