Douglas Murray and Peter Boghossian - Full conversation on Woke ideology

Douglas Murray and Peter Boghossian discuss Woke ideology, its origins and what people can do to push back.
This was filmed for my series, The Woke Reformation, and if you appreciate my work, please consider supporting me on Locals, as that allows me to keep making more content. Plus, you'll get exclusive content on Locals page like long form interviews, tips on how to deal with Woke ideology and more.
travisbrown.locals.com
Find more about Peter Boghossian through his website - peterboghossian.com
Find more about Douglas Murray through his website - douglasmurray.net

[@thesignalproductions]

Don't forget to subscribe! And if you like my work, please consider supporting me on Locals where you'll get more content - travisbrown.locals.com

[@guyfromostrava]

What's expensive about it? Real question. I imagine Douglas and Peter don't do these interviews out of the goodness of their hearts. :) Is that the biggest cost outside the obvious - your time filming, editing etc?

[@thesignalproductions]

@@guyfromostrava We used four cameras, many lights, 4 mics and had a crew of about 4-5 people - that's what's expensive. Also, renting the space to film in.

[@guyfromostrava]

@@thesignalproductions You rent the equipment? Anyways, thanks for the videos. Very much appreciated!

[@wolfsettgast4945]

WHEN did this conversation take place?

[@zxyatiywariii8]

Thank you, awesome sound and video quality, which makes this so much easier to share. And of course, excellent discussion!

[@zeljkomadzo614]

As long as the world has men like these two Gentlemen you know there is still hope!

[@kenthhamner2641]

The problem is they don't get the exposure and coverage needed to reach more people.

[@Dancestar1981]

And many women support them

[@theenthusiasticamateurpian9033]

We are many engaged in this fight against madness !

[@sunshinepadawan]

Isn’t is amazing . Were it not for Wokism most of us would have never heard of Peterson, Murray,Prager, Rubin, Weinstein.

[@TheFluffyDuck]

No, these guys are just narrators at the end of civilisation. Like sports commentators describe a 20 car f1 race pile up. They have a couple of books and a podcast. The equity diversity and inclusion commissars have the media, the government, universities, schools, and the corporations, and there are millions of them. The game is so lost, and has been lost for at least a decade

[@dingusfartacus9624]

I listen to conversations like this and I feel reassured that sanity will prevail. But then I show up at work, surrounded by suburban middle class New Englanders, supposedly smart liberals - puritanical, narcissistic, spiritually bankrupt do-gooders. My mental health suffers.

[@zxyatiywariii8]

I agree. . . but like the amazing animal with whom you share a name, we can't ever surrender.

[@elizabethmillar1829]

Get another job, life is too short.

[@helloitsme98]

Just move - We will welcome you in Lincoln, Nebraska. I am a former communist from seattle who has been converted. Praise you! Lord Jesus Christ!

[@coyotepeyote]

@@helloitsme98 What was it that finally changed your outlook?

[@christiane.g.4142]

Flee that place

[@Nordic_Sky]

With the woke types, the question is never, "Is there racism in this situation?" The question is always, "How does racism manifest itself in this situation?" The underlying assumption of the woke is that racism is ALWAYS present in every situation. It's exhausting.

[@tensevo]

The question should be, whatever the question is. Not viewed through the lens of a narrow and inaccurate historical frame work. Douglas points out, to these people, if you don't see racism literally everywhere, then they literally call you a racist. P.s. not exaggerating but wish I was.

[@Ashigeru47]

When you believe that racism is everywhere, you see signs of it everywhere, even when it isn't there... It must be there, because you believe it has to be there. Even in their own mirrors staring back at them. Only racists obsess over people's skin color, and the Woke Left can't stop obsessing over it.

[@JoeyArmstrong2800]

While actual racism goes unchecked. It's mind boggling

[@samanthawebb7926]

Beyond exhausting living in South Africa. Perpetual blaming and perpetual guilt. Continuously condemned for real and/or imagined racism, meanwhile the black nationalists in government keep promulgating black economic empowerment laws that are divisive and discriminatory with echoes of similar laws under the white nationalist government.. White racism, white racist. Evil settler, evil coloniser, evil perpetrator, on and on .. . world without end. I signed up for the respect, unity and love of the Rainbow Nation, and its guarantees of justice, equality and a new dawn with a Siuth African government of morally superior, honest, principalled humans in 1994. This isn't it.

[@carolynbrightfield8911]

Raised a Catholic in the 1950s, the woke church is more self-righteous, more unforgiving and with more zealotry than anything I experienced in my Catholic girlhood. And that is truly saying something since the Church was still praying the Latin mass.

[@carlysalzberg5362]

“It’s profoundly anti human” wow yes Douglass

[@tensevo]

Literally everybody has historical grievances. Everybody. Each individual has grievances. Deep seated existential grievances.

[@ProdigalSunTzu]

My wife, who is a woman, Asian and an immigrant was poached from one giant multibillion tech company by another who offered almost double the salary. A testament to her skills and hard work. When she gave her notice to quit her boss told her that her leaving would fuck up his diversity numbers. Fucked with her self confidence a little bit...she kind of questioned whether her skills and hard work even mattered when her boss csn check off 3 boxes on the diverse list by having her there. When she was told by her new boss that yearly bonuses alone would be higher than my yearly pay as a psychotherapist those doubts fortunately went away.

[@thadtuiol1717]

Was your wife a 'twofer' or a 'threefer'?

[@ajrob77]

The last 30 minutes of this should be played over a loudspeaker across the country…. It’s both inspiring and helpful. I have immense respect for Douglas Murray

[@commandershepard9920]

That's a terrible idea. You can't force people to watch the content you're interested in. Also, no disrespect to the speakers, but they should *also* cover alt right ideology and what we can do to fight back. Both extremes are nuts.

[@leerichards2313]

@@commandershepard9920 How to deal with the far right has been known, has been done, and continues. There are really only two things that support and increase there numbers. One is, the media seeks them out, gives them voices, and tells the world they are large in numbers and everywhere. This helps the singletons out there find them and encourages them that they have actual power. Second is, the deep and unassailable hatred certain sectors of the population experience in big portions of their lives. These two things feed the alt right. The simple way they are minimized is to starve them. Their ideas are not acceptable in polite society.

[@deepdublin]

@@commandershepard9920 Woke ideology is being spread in our schools and universities and represents an existential threat to free society. 'Alt-right' ideology is a virtually nonexistent problem in comparison.

[@AnthonyL0401]

@@commandershepard9920 Yours is a good point. I am going to post a general comment in this thread and see if anyone responds (sub comments rarely get as much engagement).

[@b.g.5869]

@@commandershepard9920The difference is, Alt -Right ideology is a lunatic fringe whereas Woke ideology has captured virtually every major institution of significance on the US. It's like a dystopian social horror movie come to life.

[@oceantree5000]

John McWhorter would be a brilliant addition to this conversation. He’s been speaking of the religious nature of this movement for quite some time.

[@helloitsme98]

This should not be a new insight - all ideas can be attributed as religious in nature - it is a fallacious argument to label somebody else's ideas as religious but not yours and therefore their can be dismissed. I can make that accusation at anyone at anytime. We have excluded "religion" from our public space when it is nothing more than philosophical ideas couched in antiquated language. For instance woke is a repeat of Gnosticism waging war against Atheistic Materialism (Peter Boghossian). And both of those philosophies (religions) suck by the way.

[@jcmoney11111]

I believe James Lindsey, Helen Pluckrose, and Bogossian kinda coined the term/idea together or really brought that correlation to the forefront. James Lindsey is like friggin Woke Marxism Terminator here lately.

[@hide3reptiles365]

@@helloitsme98 Slight of hand ”all ideas can be attributed as religious”, followed by something about fallacies. ...and if they all ”can” be labeled as such, of course they equally merit the label, or do they? By your standard, Galileo's teachings or a multilateral nuclear nonproliferation plan ”could” always be construed as being religious in nature, just as much as the Woke movement. Conveniently rendering the term meaningless for the duration of the argument. The fact remains that for all not using an obtuse semantic filter, certain ideas stand out as being more religious than others and thus merit observing for the psychosocial functions they fulfill besides for just the truths they assert or knowledge they might add. While not an exact science, typical religious behavior is a human thing that can be separated from a non-religious one. Here's Durkheim's definition: ”...a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things […] set apart and forbidden - beliefs and practices which unite in one single moral community called a church, all those who adhere to them.” Similarly to the categorization of personality disorders, the ”family resemblance” checklist lens will add items like the supernatural, awe, sacred rituals, a map of humanity's role in the universe etc as probable if not mandatory ingredients. On this note there does e.g. exist a widespread idea or social ”belief” that air traffic safety merits our attention. ”Truths” are repeatedly asserted in the field, with claims of irrefutable evidence about GPS nav being an important addition in the pursuit of safeguarding alleged "airborne" souls, with TCAS instructions said to deserve to be treated by all pilots as the final overruling commandments on which vertical path to take in life. But despite this, there is little evidence that the aviation- or traveling communities revere the TCAS as a sacred relic or morally infused deity. Few think TCAS or its founding engineers have lessons to teach about the origin or future of modern society, the role of women or the final destination of the living. There are no demonstrations or violent clashes on the streets in the name of the greater TCAS Vision Zero, and few wars fought in its name. There are no labels of shame ascribed to TCAS-deniers or -revisionists, and no ostracized TCAS family black sheep. Few politicians ever campaigned on empowering the TCAS community and few lost souls have gotten back on track citing the exhilarating new purpose in life they found after reading the TCAS wiring diagram and landing in the warm embrace of the nightshift avionics maintenance unit. So as much as you ”could” accuse airline safety systems and the ideas underpinning those to be a religious undertaking, there is no guarantee that sane people would find your argument compelling, whereas if all the conditional "no's" above got substituted for "many", things would look a whole lot differently. This is not to say that modern air travel safety doesn't fill an intricate, closely monitored and key structural role in society, or that violating all its tenets would have nothing to do with morality or politics. It's just not a very religiously natured (see above definitions) way of handling moral codes and social structures, whereas the Woke movement to a large extent is. Most people who are not idiots understand this and other matters of religious vs non-religious behaviors intuitively and through life experience, whether they know how to put the obvious into words in the face of semantic babble or not. It's unclear BTW who the ”we” are in ”We have excluded "religion" from our public space when it is nothing more than philosophical ideas couched in antiquated language.” It's apparent however that this ”antiquated language” is popular today both among rapidly growing portions of the inhabitants of the West as well as in large parts of the rest of the world.

[@helloitsme98]

@@hide3reptiles365 Did you want a response from me?

[@markmarlatt1105]

@@helloitsme98 it's not the ideas that seam religious, it's the actions and dogmatic following of those ideas.

[@captainbeattysghost5466]

Douglas Murray is usually spot-on, but when he addresses the "you must understand me, you will never understand me" conundrum I feel he is missing a crucial point. He seems to dismiss this as a silly contradiction and nothing more, but it's much more sinister than that. The activists don't want understanding-- they want obedience. The essence of the trick is this: they first convince you that if you are not one of the oppressed then you are draped in privilege and will never be able to understand their plight. Therefore, you must believe what they tell you and enact the remedies they prescribe.

[@samanthawebb7926]

Very dark intentions going on

[@helvetesmakt1]

2+2 = 5

[@dvanaestcestica1135]

You couldn't have put it more accurately. On the latest episode of Andrew Gold's "Heretics" Will Storr defined it well as "means of dominance". It's not about kindness, it's not about fighting for social justice, or protecting the oppressed, or the discriminated. It's about using virtue signaling into oppressing others for personal gain (a career, a social status, some form of power, or just in order to feel good about oneself, extort respect and acceptance from the social setting).

[@jaredwtaylor]

I love Douglas Murray

[@petergilbert3861]

Two of my favorite new found people. As an "older person " I'm not black, gay, female etc" . Thanks for the humanist reduction to the fundamentals. We ( humans) will strive to find solutions to "existential "problems ". Keep going ❤

[@markcarey67]

Douglas Murray is one of those people like Orson Welles where I could listen to him opine on the municipal drainage system and it's just music

[@Xandil]

Great conversation. I really like Douglas' suggestions on how to respond to folks pushing these toxic topics. My wife and I just went through whether or not to put our kids in public school. The school system changed it from CRT to CRF (framework) so we decided not to subject them to that poison. We're going to keep home schooling.

[@dreamarcher4018]

My old private school that I attended 50 years ago has gone woke too! Nowhere is safe but home schooling and watch they will make indoctrination be part of home schooling curriculum!

[@bc7026]

Better make sure your kids don’t suffer in a fast paced, quickly changing world, because you don’t have a healthy respect for education.

[@Aliandrin]

@Jason Barnett Healthier maybe. Better educated maybe. But they may have no place in the new world.

[@mimilikankkunen4865]

The new world is not of that much worth. The culture is deteriorating really fast, we see it degenerate into something alien.

[@florenna]

How sad that in some countries, public schools are distributing such biased views! 😮 Thankfully not in my country, at least as of yet, and afaik.

[@chaz6399]

Equity is the left's euphemism for communism. As James Lindsay says we share the same vocabulary but we have different dictionaries.

[@tensevo]

I don't think it's a euphemism for communism, but sure equity requires communism to inact.

[@judithknights-rayson9284]

Love to hear people, NOT afraid to LOOK at PROBLEMS In the face, to ASK DIFFICULT questions and try to find answers.

[@JB-Mon]

Murray has a brilliant way of understanding and explaining a viewpoint.

[@minbari73]

Especially about his bowel issues.

[@GBGB000]

If he didn't have a posh accent and used shorter words, it would be obvious what a pseudo-intellectual blowhard he is.

[@kafon6368]

@@minbari73 I didn't notice. I confused it for woke ideology.

[@darrynreid4500]

I'm not taking anything away from him here: he manifests nothing other than the kind of reasoned informed approach to discussion that scientists are supposed to engage in every day, but even here, it's increasingly being undermined by tantrum-throwing righteousness-police who are as openly hostile to rational thought and evidence as they are towards men.

[@dale9724]

What a joy to hear such a deep conversation. Thank you from a left of centre long time activist who prefers the old gods.

[@chronicles8324]

im the same as you Dale, im a natural left of center liberal but nowadays i feel like a right wing conservative because everything has gone way beyond what is logical or common sense

[@louisehaley5105]

30:51- Intellectual Intimidation - my point exactly ! “They’re so much more educated and smarter than me, so they must be right !” Douglas Murray sums up their insidious tactics perfectly. He puts my gut feelings into words. Now I feel empowered to stand up to this obscurantist nonsense !

[@darrynreid4500]

It also happens towards people who are highly qualified and demonstrably much smarter, but who are dependent on organisational and professional environments the fanatics have infiltrated. The mechanism of intimidation is always the same: Infallible Righteous Purity, setting you up to be hounded and character assassinated to your professional destruction if you dare to point out the simplest absurdity, particularly if you are male. The research literature supports me in saying that I understand these fanatics in terms of the manifestations of extreme personality disorders, particularly narcissism and psychopathy.

[@ianpettit678]

Oops started reading comment threads again! Keep up the great work, gentlemen.

[@blueprince2330]

If I could have anyone in the world replace the voice of my inner dialogue in my head...Douglass Murray would definitely be top three. Just listening to him makes me feel smarter, lol.

[@deborahjury884]

8/7/23 These two wise and thoughtful men give me hope that we ( humanity)has capacity to resolve these frustrating issues. This is a strange conjunction in time when our instinct for unity, if realised, would put us on a sound footing to navigate the advancement of AI. It’s all a horrible distraction and I think we may be sufficiently distracted to not be unified in matters that will affect us all regardless of ideology. We are so vulnerable.

[@janieromer2907]

Yes...forgiveness... "for they know not what they do". Thank you. 🇬🇧🇺🇸

[@DentedeLeiteKira]

Thanks for this FULL conversation! I was wating wile watching the cut ones. It brights my soul to see that is it possible to talk about life in a rational way. Thanks again! ^{^

[@lukehall8503]

“We have frogs. We can boil water.” Lmao wow Douglas is a gem

[@michellecalhoun2527]

Loved every second of this conversation.

[@Jon-yn4pq]

51:25 wow. extremely well put "I will not take part in thr re-racialization of my society"

[@muskepticsometimes9133]

Best part 38:00 two atheists saying they miss Christianity

[@NOODLEDOC1]

It’s not about consensus, it’s about power!

[@bobthebuilder9553]

I am appalled by what has become of the university. I even see it in hospitals where the CEO has started to use "preferred pronouns". This is woke ideology and agenda. I was not amused by his entries to the rest of the hospital with this agenda. Sickened by it actually. How the halls of education and health care have fallen.

[@stantheoneandonly]

Where is that hospital funded? Tablet magazine just had a great piece about Illinois governor's family funding a lot of the push for this kind of ideology in the medical field and education, including normalizing trans and Synthetic Sexual Identities.

[@r8m8s8]

“The academy“*

[@darbyohara]

Those institutions are so broken and inflected with evil that they are beyond repair. Burn it down and start over

[@helloitsme98]

military too

[@slash_em]

I told my 14 year old niece that men cannot get pregnant by their girlfriends. She didn't believe me. I had to watch a lot of KZbin to understand the way she looked at me. Her school had warned her about people like me, who use hate speech so casually.

[@mtarlo215]

Why do I feel like I’m living in the world that CS Lewis was trying to warn us about in the “Abolition of Man”. That the world we inhabit is that Green Book he said was on his shelf

[@anthonyreturn4855]

In the Middle Ages theologians used to argue how many angels can fit on a pinhead, in modern times conspiracy theorists argue how many oppressions can be unlocked on a social construct

[@cestmoi4532]

I had a good laugh at the quibble over the size of Douglas' island... great conversation, thank you!

[@Jackjohnjay]

I enjoy DM so much. I laughed out loud when the ‘Baptist’ comments were brought up. I grew up as an existential anarchist (as one does as a girl in the midwest) in an agnostic household and became a Christian at 19. Went to a baptist college where I then discovered I was Catholic in a comparative Christianity class. From there, I studied and served the church for 15 years before becoming disenchanted with authoritarianism and spent the last 5 years sifting through the various worldly perspectives I had rejected as a believer -and from a phenomenologist’s perspective, heavily steeped in moral theology. lol. It was as exhausting as it sounds. I suppose I’ve now landed back at a sort of conservative but skeptic theism, which feels much more comfortable: rational, cogent, rooted, but still free. Such minutiae to contend with from an intellectual perspective. In any case, I laughed out loud as these comments (Baptist) tied so much of my experiential learnings together and said out loud ecstatically and in reminiscent revelation, ‘wow, I’ve lived such an interesting life.’ As perhaps only one trying to discern the how, what, and why if humanity might. DM, let’s get coffee if you come to the Midwest. (In a non-sexual way), I’ll make it worth your while. Am I just a random person out here asking an important person by ‘the world’s’ standards this forward question? Yes, but you never know. :) perhaps we may be of some service and encouragement to one another, if you’d like an acquaintance, who needs nothing from you but has a kind heart and enjoys ideas.

[@tombarrett7797]

Brilliant conversation from two people that have a true and genuine interest in helping our societies grow and flourish. I salute you both. I will carry this flag and reach out to those who so passionately follow woke ideology and offer them alternatives. Peace, love and the commitment to the endless pursuit of truth and knowledge.

[@neildunford241]

"You must understand me, you will never understand me" - similar to the short hand descriptor for BPD, "I hate you, please don't leave me"

[@camycameli2784]

The difference between Christinanity and woke religion is that the latter has no forgiveness and redemption

[@Doutsoldome]

Thanks for this upload! As I commented in a shorter episode, I want to hear a ten-hour conversation between these two extraordinarily insightful gentlemen. Now, I only have to look for the other missing nine hours...

[@trueleo7893]

absolute garbage. 1 minute in and he's described himself as a CIS male. you Sir, are the problem.

[@derbar7051]

Love your Eb major / C minor picture 😍

[@Doutsoldome]

@@derbar7051 Oh, thanks! This is a bit geeky, but here it goes - the name settles it as C minor: Do + Ut (= Do; from Guido D'Arezzo) + Sol + Do + Me ( = Eb; from the Movable Do scheme) --> C minor chord 😁

[@derbar7051]

@@Doutsoldome absolutely amazing stuff. I’m a music teacher and this makes me soooo happy! And you’re based! Awesome!!

[@Doutsoldome]

@@derbar7051 Ah, a music teacher! Cool! Physicist, here. I play a little bit of piano, though. This is a cliché, I know, but music was my first love, and - cliché or not - it's the truth.

[@krisnaylor9488]

There were 4 of us kids. I'm the oldest to 3 younger brothers growing up in the 70's. I was a tomboy! Big time. Then I got my period in the 5th grade. Talk about raging against the machine. I was enraged that I had to be subjected to this affront! My mom said "life isn't fair" get used to it. You may think this a nihilistic statement, but it is a lesson well learned. Also, I grew up in a household of male and didnt need society to tell me I was equal to. I could just look around and notice.

[@rageagainstmyhatchet]

God bless both these two.

[@deenzmartin6695]

the widest possible application of we is actually the "we" that refers to the human race.

[@flimsymoon-bx5xt]

Amazing conversation

[@autumnleaves2766]

Two of my favourite men having a great conversation, superb. It lifts my spirits knowing that there are great thinkers in the world like these two men, who are trying to fight back against the woke insanity that now prevails in western societies.

[@basilfawlty123]

This should be mandatory watching for every school child

[@rmmj7james293]

These men are intellectual giants of our day

[@scottfoster9452]

What a fantastic important convocation, between two brilliant honest intellectuals! 👍

[@beatricebolstad4417]

The God bless Douglas Murray. Amen.

[@bvarsho1]

"Crete is small. Malta is small. The United Kingdom isn't small. Outrageous." Douglas, you're a delight. You guys are great together.

[@calmon-ground962]

It's really refreshing to hear these issues being discussed in a grounded and thoughtful manner. It's such necessary modeling. Keep up the great work, all of you.

[@BrewsterMcBrewster]

This was a wonderful discussion by two very thoughtful men. What a pleasure to listen to and watch. What a breath of fresh air! Thank you!

[@westfieldartworks8188]

This idea of speaking " my truth, " or not being able to understand " your truth, " gives me the willy's. Thinking about driving down a two lane highway, and every driver coming from the other direction has their own version of the truth, and can only operate within their own unique version of reality, like where the center line might be.

[@tensevo]

That's literally the future that those type of people are laying out for us.

[@jozneptune]

Brilliant!! Love this dialogue. Douglas should never stop having these conversations even if it’s a bit preaching to choir. I pray the choir grows.

[@earlgreystoke3324]

When battling woke socialist justice activists...Never apologize. Don't surrender. Counter-attack. Always!

[@jbauman1111]

Doug and Peter’s combined insights in this video are absolutely deadly. Illumination overload.

[@alisonmcshannon1196]

Great conversation about the complex and many shades of Grey along the continuum of our human and cultural existence over the range of our knowable history, thanks

[@acharlesacharles]

This is absolutely brilliant! The world needs to hear more of these kinds of conversations!

[@saltburner2]

Two of the wisest men alive.

[@julmcconnell]

The real goal is to have everyone divided and fighting with the ultimate solution of making everyone the same.

[@ianelliott8224]

Regretfully I have only just found your insightful channel, which just goes to show how the algorithms are doing their masters bidding.

[@rockmcdwayne1710]

Funny. Douglas pointed out the fact that if you ask ''How are you'' in angloshphere you usually get the answer ''fine''. Round here in Eastern Europe. People will actually tell you how they are. I've heard this is somewhat surprising cultural difference to over come for some westerners lol. I recommend stiking with just ''hi'' or ''hello'' round these parts of the world!

[@RosemaryDrone-zy2eh]

Lol

[@gilbertgiles]

excellent presentation gents. So essential and appreciated. It's the difference between being non-racist and anti-racist. Here's to non-racism.

[@Dancestar1981]

Amen what I grew up with and what I believe in my entire life

[@JhubeiFC]

Incredible full Conversation. This is what I love about KZbin. Thank you to everyone involved for this amazing content!

[@minbari73]

Now point out all the videos banned by KZbin. Love it?

[@williamfriar6295]

Indoctrination must be done early or it can’t be done at all. Parents must take back the public and private schools. Arizona has moved to a system where educational funding is to follow the student, allowing the student (student’s parents) to choose which school gets that funding. If the parents don’t like the school, the school just lost X amount of money.

[@saltburner2]

'Equity' to me means one thing: the difference between the value of your house and what you still owe on the mortgage. 'Negative equity' is when you owe more than the house is worth.

[@peterhall4086]

Bravo. Bravo. I found this to be a profound conversation.

[@jerrodv6218]

This is what society should be like, a civil and informative conversation. I tip my hat to these two interesting humans. They have certainly changed the way I approach conversation and free thinking

[@Kaiser68]

Such a great point about discomfort. Often the woke ideology lifts up "discomfort" as white people confronting their original sin of being complicit in racism, but do not even stop to consider circumstances where you feel uncomfortable because what is happening is wrong.

[@hotwax9376]

That's exactly how the left operates. If any position can be held for racist reasons, they assume that this is the only reason people could hold that opinion. I saw a headline in FiveThirtyEight yesterday that said the pro-life position is rooted in Great Replacement theory. (Never mind the fact that a disproportionate percentage of women who have abortions are black or Hispanic, which means the population would be LESS white and Anglo if abortion were outlawed nationwide.) The media also blamed Glenn Youngkin's election in Virginia on "dog whistle racism" even though those same voters chose a black woman for lieutenant governor and a Hispanic man for attorney general over an incumbent who admitted to wearing blackface. Some racists they were!

[@opseeker]

I need so much more of this. Thank you.

[@stevensarson482]

Great metaphor / that’s exactly what he was doing.

[@CoreFinkPilot]

24:54 This is such an important point. The political left has completely abandoned class-based politics in favor of identity-based politics, effectively handing class over to the political right. In other words: Proletariat=Right, Bourgeois=Left. What a hilarious postmodern inversion. We live in strange times.

[@5656kjkj]

How refreshingly awesome (for lack of a better word) to listen to 2 Incredibly robustly intelligence on display. I’ve been despairing for our country of late. This is At least a momentary moment of utter common sense. Thank you for this discussion. I’m forwarding this link to 10 of my wokiest friends…then I’ll see what response I get.

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

Focusing on grievance is the exact opposite of focusing on gratitude, and doing so is guaranteed to make you unhappy. But that is actually the point, of the Marxists behind all this. They need to build more resentful, unhappy people to act as vectors to destroy the system, so they can build it back up in their image. James Lindsay lays it all out.

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

Final thought: the grievance people aren’t trying to help people, they are trying to recruit an army.

[@tbay101]

@@stevenlightfoot6479 They call the recruits Alies.

[@tensevo]

Nailed it.

[@sw.7519]

Narcissist are bitter and resentful. Under the cover of mercy/ moral they ask for revange.

[@gogogogogogogogo1986]

@@stevenlightfoot6479 in preparation towards their very own “red august” reset.

[@czypauly07]

45:00 "It's not that small...." Oh Douglas we love you

[@fsff2070]

Love how you get to the day-to-day applications: ask questions. challenge it in a friendly manner, trust your instincts etc...

[@georginaharvey736]

Two of my favourite speakers making sense together.

[@smido1284]

this talk right here should be going global.

[@mikem.s.1183]

Excellent discussion. Both of you.

[@zoozguerrero9648]

Douglas Murray for Prime Minister!!!!🙏🙏🙏

[@matthewmaccaughey5016]

Thank You Sooooooooo Much for the full conversation on this.

[@thomasmacisaac1503]

I've been putting off watching the clips hoping there would be a full interview. Thanks for posting the whole thing!

[@tracy3364]

Loved this talk.

[@dieAnthropologischeKonstante]

I enjoy your conversation so much. Objective, compassions, passionate, true and still conciliatory and solution-oriented

[@machtnichtsseimann]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for uploading the FULL conversation. You got a new subscriber.

[@craighart9278]

What a great conversation. Thanks.

[@terriseverson3873]

When I argued in my intro to acting class that not only is it appropriate for any actor to portray any character they have been cast as and to have witnessed Tom Hanks mine the depths of his humanity to portray an HIV positive gay attorney, reinforced for me that we all have the capacity to touch each other's experiences. I was responded to by a fellow student to get over my white fragility.

[@benh5003]

The best way to respond to that is tell them that you aren't going to entertain an argument from a postmodernist/ neo marxist narrative. Simply remind them that this SJW trash is anti liberal because it suggest that black people cannot work in in the framework of our constitution and it needs to be torn down. The Civil rights movement was successful because MLK made the argument that black people weren't be awarded the rights granted to them under the constitution. The key is to not fight on their battle field where they rigged the dictionary in their favor. Force to accept reality and stick with it.

[@terriseverson3873]

@@benh5003 It was 2019 and I was a 57 year old student when that happened to me. It took another semester before I really understood everything you so eloquently expressed in your response to me. I remember my ignorance in thinking back then, "wait till these kids have to function in jobs in the real world." Little did I know?

[@jimbeglin6006]

Fantastic, thank you so much for this absolute treasure from two towers of intellect of our time.

[@55hivealive3]

Douglas is so smart and spot on

[@kirkulate]

What a brilliant conversation! Thanks

[@normanmair4042]

Thank you, an interesting and enjoyable conversation.

[@user-oh9rw8jz6h]

THIS was such a wonderfully informative discussion. Two of my favorite thinkers.

[@freshham7399]

Superb minds, framing the problem, considering solutions. All for our betterment. Thank you, Gentlemen

[@ravenhawk3758]

I hope you're right that this ideology will be exposed for what it is. Keep up the good work so it will be.

[@teenis4610]

I love listening to thoughtful conversations like this. Great job!

[@CaptainTae]

Telling people to city off family is called “disconnection policy” in Scientology.

[@marybourke3358]

So grateful to have the opportunity to listen to two wise truthful men.Thank You

[@elkabongg2716]

The woke ideals are simple and simplistic ideas that any child can understand. By creating complex language and theories around them it can become appealing to anybody, particularly young students who like to feel intellectually superior without too much effort and virtuous to boot. Despite this I believe their understanding on the whole is superficial and awkward questions such as is absolute equality for all actually desirable. Most can understand the problem of trying to banish poverty by handing out a million pounds to everyone, would the same principle apply to equality. How far in terms of imposition, control of individual action and punishment for transgression are you prepared to go to achieve it. Difficult questions are branded as nasty and banished wherever possible because they stain the purity of the simple belief and question the intellect of believers.

[@tensevo]

The problem is with this new Marxism, is it's a lot like the old Marxism, it requires mass atrocities to carry out the agenda, which has no end. Equality of outcomes, just means equally miserable.

[@theflamingone8729]

Most do not understand the problem of trying to end poverty by handing out money. In fact, most advocate for the redistribution of wealth *believing that wealth is somehow, fairly or unfairly, "distributed " in the first place.

[@tensevo]

@@theflamingone8729 a basic thought experiment is all you need. Imagine, if tonight, everybody's bank account balance was set to $1000, tomorrow some would spend that money on family, others would blow the lot and a few would save. Now, tomorrow we reset everybody's account balance, again, the same happens, so over time the responsible savers see this and decide, they are going to be free riders too, so over time the pot beiing redistributed becomes so small that everybody is equally poor. Except for the ruling class who imposed this redistribution of wealth.

[@theflamingone8729]

@@tensevo well put. Here, the various welfare payments are referred to as "sit down money". What do people do when they get sit down money? They continue to sit down. And as you described, the people who don't immediately consume their resources, attract people who do, wanting to consume theirs as well.

[@hegemonycricket2182]

Gentlemen, the only way this could be any better is if it were 6 hours long. Thank you and I hope you get together again soon.

[@cestmoi4532]

Thank you for this conversation and the laughs. Ha! What a relief to laugh. 💛

[@tipsyt1909]

This should be shown in every college. The fact they they both concede that these problems of inequality and racism, sexism and homophobia are still problems that exist but offer actual solutions should be embraced and heard even if people disagree with them. People need different points of view

[@tensevo]

This is honestly epic. Thanks for uploading. I am grateful.