The Pride and Price of Representation

[@billybobby4637]

A gay superhero with an F on his chest? That's a bold move, Cotton.

[@venomsymbiote4887]

"Let's see if it pays of for them"

[@sgtstr3am785]

Villain drops a F-bomb They cry and cancel his m on Social Media instead of fighting. The villain gets his account banned and the city is still vaporized by the nuke/space laser the heros we're to retarded to notice.

[@buttnakedsnake9357]

10/10

[@Tengu125]

Hmm...I wonder if there might be some offensive term for gays starting with "F" 🤔😂

[@WhyYouMadBoi]

He even named him fab man you know you can make the B into a G and oh no!

[@meatbagspaai6370]

"Fab-Man is tired of being seen as a joke" That's like the Amazing Wonder Douche wanting to be taken seriously.

[@ALDAL]

he choosed Fab man as code name, of course he is a joke...

[@Deverud]

@@ALDAL not to mention the costume

[@Nonpain]

it's like south parks se(a)man .

[@chadsmith8966]

The problem with these representational focused is they obsess over the What and forgo the Who the characters are. Funny thing is a one could write a character who became a superhero in hopes of validation. They could even internalize their lack of recognition and taken seriously because they happen to be gay. But this should part of their character development. Hell I would even throw in a superhero who is respected give the protagonist a “Reason you suck speech” and end with the whammy the respected superhero is also gay.

[@Lastjustice]

I agree if someone whats be taken seriously, they would dress and choose a professional codename. You act as if. The guy writing this has ZERO self awareness. I think most people would rather be saved by Homelander than Fabman.

[@x-mobius0ne]

I love how these woke LGBT creators say they don't like being stereotyped and yet when they create their own characters and stories for "representation", its filled to the brim with gay stereotypes because their sexuality is the only thing they think makes them interesting

[@relo999]

Exactly, when is the last time you saw a conservative gay character from these types of writers? Or some other type of gay character that doesn't fit neatly in their own politics?

[@wesmcinerny4524]

Agreed. Hiring writers/creators based not on talent is a big mistake.

[@iDEATH]

I agree with what you said, and the irony is, at least for me, someone else's sexual orientation (or even just preferences) isabout the least interesting thing I could know about them. To elaborate: it has zero bearing on me unless there's an attraction there, and then it's only about whether or not there's a chance the feelings are mutual. I do not understand why anyone ever gives a crap about what two (or more) consenting adults get up to.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

@@relo999 Maybe being conservative isn't worth inclusion, because it is the boring part, and you jsut default to LACK of it as "the opposite side" in your black and white world view. Maybe your selective reasoning is just bullshit and you've read brooding , boring daddy figures into the subtext of charcters like Batman ever since you became a sad thirty-something. And now the daddy aspect is forefront in a ll these "interesting" characters. Their stereotype, by literal definition. Oh wow, Logan, how non-woke, the bat family, how original.

[@chrisbg99]

By and large they are whole community is one big stereotype machine. It is all they have. In their real lives and in fiction.

[@mr.cobalt1668]

They explicitly put fighting supervillains in at the bottom of their list of priorities and they call themselves superheroes.

[@DemonicRemption]

@mr.cobalt1668 IKR, it's an utter joke. 😄

[@brettyates7054]

Well the idea of ‘villains’ is unfashionable. A bunch of kids left school having felt victimised and wanting retribution, but the things they want to do to lash out would make them ‘villainous’ so they’ve entered the creative arts and are trying to rehabilitate villains… so they can justify treating people like crap but not be perceived as evil. I’m so sick of “10 heroes who were evil”, “10 villains who were right all along” articles… all written by people who mentally never left high school who want to punish the world.

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

She-Hulk (TV show) was a very reluctant superhero. She said something like she associates superheroes with "man babies", narcissists and adult orphans. Helping innocent people and saving lives and even fighting for justice did not seem to appeal to her at all. She did not want any superhero work she might grudgingly undertake to interfere with the most important thing in her life, which was being a lawyer. Oddly enough, she was both mediocre and unprofessional as a lawyer, and scatterbrained and insecure in her personal life. There were so many negative female stereotypes that one wonders why a self-proclaimed man-despising female showrunner and female writers did this.

[@PeteTheGrouch]

@@brettyates7054 ...then, at the other end of the spectrum, you have the idiots who live in an idealised fantasy land who think that comic book 'heroes' should somehow be taken seriously, rather than seen for the heavily caricatured escapism/wish-fulfillment they actually are... Swings-&-roundabouts.

[@user-vg8ox3he1i]

​@@dronesclubhighjinks if a man wrote shehulk he would have been cancelled as a sexist and a bad writer. What women loved is that men didnt like the show and it was created by women. The show itself was immaterial. How many times have you heard female fans talk about the show or watch the reruns? How many videos do you see dissecting what was so great about it? Women stopped caring the second it was over.

[@greatgatsby0174]

The Pride feels like a parody of a superhero team that would be found in the Boys.

[@boobsbr]

Brutal. Savage. Rekt.

[@ulforcemegamon3094]

And that would be killed by homelander for the lulz

[@Neo-Najarin]

Or a SNL TV Funhouse skit from the 90’s.

[@Shiirow]

"We join our heroes the Just-us League of Superdouches in their headquarters, The Hall of Wokeness..."

[@alexfriedman918]

@@Neo-Najarin You mean, like the “Ambiguously Gay Duo” skits?

[@onemadkat]

I’m so sick of writers who so clearly have no idea how to create people that aren’t a caricature of themselves and simply use fiction as a vehicle for their desperate solipsism. A good writer can create all kinds of characters, good bad and otherwise, and make them believable. Get the audience invested in your characters regardless of their sexuality, ‘cause if it’s not a romance, there’s no reason to focus on that anyway.

[@jackhhun2698]

but there is only the oppressor and the oppressed ignore the fact that bdsm and dominatrix's exist no No submission = slavery so all must fight the oppressors white men and ignore all the gay and bi men just call them right winger if they disagree yeah yeah we're all tired of this bs

[@andresanguianozuniga6798]

BASED.

[@brianmurphy6480]

​@@ahoramazda6864 And that is precisely why so many gay people today present themselves as extreme stereotypes; you know, the thing we all wanted to get away from in the first place? I mean, just look at the cover of that book. Pink hot pants. A leather harness-clad BEAR? My God. It is to weep. 🤦‍♂️

[@johntan4997]

The baseline of a hero is being a hero. This comic isn't abt heroes, just trying to use the label of superhero. Like putting lipsticks on a pig.

[@JB-qt4hp]

Too many people today only know how to look inward, but don't know how to look out at the world around them with any great understanding. When you're writing with basically your own small lens you see the world from, you come across as shallow and petty, unless the reader sees everything the way you do, which isn't going to be a whole lot of people, no matter who you are.

[@Hammerhead547]

"or in a taxicab" Sorry joe but I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that the guy driving the taxi you're in doesn't care about who you screw or how you screw, all he cares about is getting you to your destination and then finding his next fare, and the next one...and the next one until his day is done.

[@An_Able]

Yeah, that really stuck out to me as a particularly idiotic point. How self-centered and validation-starved do you have to be to discuss your sexuality with a random cabby?

[@Yayofangamer16]

He has a personality disorder. This is not normal paranoia.

[@Tengu125]

AKA: He has a job. It's understandable that a privileged woke story writer who is likely hired for his sexual preference or political ideology doesn't understand the concept of honest labour.

[@maguffintop2596]

Exactly. Joe needs to be studied. Because if all gays feel as he does, this brand of sexuality is a ‘syndrome’ and disorder in par w/NPD. ‘All about Me - All the Time!’ And that seems to be what we are seeing. When one feels that his sexual identity needs to be known to all in every situation, that’s called a problem.

[@Lastjustice]

Just screams this person feels they need mention their sexuality 24/7 regardless of how off topic it is. They sound like a very boring person if that's your lead in.

[@trevorp8124]

I'm a gay man. I saw the anthropomorphic bear in a leather harness and my inner monologue immediately went "Ok, no, *no* , for f***'s sake..."

[@innocuousalias6632]

I didn't even notice they leathered up the bear till this comment. That's south park levels of parody. How can someone write that unironically????????????

[@lykos2738]

When you framed it like that it really made me think. That's got to suck. Having your sexuality inexorably tied to deviancy or rather what could be interpreted as deviancy by members of your own community has got to be infuriating. However, the hilarious thing is that when I saw the bear in the bdsm attire I immediately thought of furries, not the gay community.

[@dusk6159]

The oldest types of stereotypes. Blacks, gays etc are truly treated and made like simpletons, it's a huge shame. Besides the fact that it's parody level, it brings conflict, confusion, worsening yourself-mentality and it divides people (who are normal folks co-living with each other in the same West, with differences - be it skin, sexual preference etc - and identities that aren't outlandish stuff that make them contrast like they look like different species).

[@randyslicker]

'Member complaining in the 90's that all gay characters were two dimensional caricatures where their only character trait was 'being the gay one'. I'm so glad we moved past that as a community to clap like brain damage seals every time someone chants the magic gay letters regardless of how awful it is. There's going to be textbooks about how a protest movement was converted into the ultimate non-discerning consumer group that buys product and gets excited for new product.

[@jackhhun2698]

I'm a bi man and I've had to deal with more sexism from lesbians declaring I'm confused and a tourist than ever from str8 peeps. One even said I sounded gay for complementing a man's beard and course I said Really you know what that means commenting on someone about their beard when they're bi again calling me a tourist I should have Slapped that B so damn hard instead I tried talking it out no they don't respect men of words these days when it comes to well the feminists they don't respect men at all and its getting very out of hand with the Misandry

[@littlesneets8026]

i've mentioned this before, but in regards to the gay superman, there's no way the F on his chest can't unironically be interpreted as "Fagman". 💀 you see, there's just something delicious about how some authors try so hard to be progressive, that they kinda make better jokes than people on 4chan could come up with. which reminds me, whatever happened to that weird marvel batch of superheros? safespace and snowflake? or that human-google and his "internet gas"

[@x-mobius0ne]

I'm pretty sure that Marvel cancelled that series before it even came out

[@relo999]

That could honestly be a decent story, him dealing with his own poor naming choice and how easily people that oppose him could twist it. It doesn't even need to lay on the homophobia angle thick, it could be the more realistic "should there be people with such unchecked power exist?" and it being used to mock the guy.

[@RyunosukeHachi]

For me, the only useful one out of that bunch was Trailblazer, as I was seeing a combination of “Dora the Explorer” and “Fat Chance” from The Venture Bros.

[@Dwellerinshadow]

You just had to remind me that shitshow with the "internet gas" existed huh >.> I mean what in the unholy fuck is "internet gas" even supposed to be?? It doesn't make any sense *-head explodes-*

[@Danahell]

Imagine how awful they were that even SJW marvel cancelled them

[@ronaldlawhorne209]

As an openly gay man,I don't understand why so many people in "the community" can't seem to understand the difference between a personality trait and an arbitrary characteristic. I don't identify with a character just because they happen to have the same sexual orientation as I do anymore than I identify with a character just because they happen to have brown eyes like mine. There just isn't enough ground there to build a personality on.

[@EPC-ue2ci]

You started your sentence with "As an openly gay man" If its arbitrary and not a identifier of actionable significance why state it as something to take note of? this is something regularly done in the lgbt community, prefacing statements with "as a __ person". This is what has lead to companies pandering to it in such a facile manner.

[@opadrip]

​@@EPC-ue2ci It's to emphasize the point that this is ridiculous

[@hawktalon7890]

Yes, my thoughts exactly.

[@nvfury13]

3:12 So, Fabman has a villain motivation “I’ll *make them* take me seriously!”

[@Lastjustice]

These SJWs make better villains than heroes.

[@nvfury13]

@@Lastjustice They made Carol Danvers build a concentration camp in the negative zone for locking up “future criminals” and create a child army that wore Hitler Youth uniforms for going around and kidnapping people to stick in illegal prisons, all while hailing her as “the greatest hero in Marvel”, that says it all.

[@Lastjustice]

@@nvfury13 Fun stuff.

[@AlteraLin]

I can't tell if things like this is an April Fool's joke or not anymore. It's gotten that crazy.

[@mehlessmidori602]

If it's an April Fools joke, then we must be stuck in Groundhog's Day.

[@Kashban]

Nobody can. Comedians run out of stuff they can over exxaggerate quickly.

[@neonnwave1]

Woke: "Stereotypes are bad!" Also Woke: "Here's a bunch of characters who are stereotypes because we care about representation and the people they're meant to represent, as our way to show appreciation." The people who are being represented: "This is nothing but offensive stereotypes! You're an ist & phobic hypocrite!" Woke: "Shut up and learn to appreciate things we make and what to truly be offended by!"

[@thatHARVguy]

Woke: *white savior syndrome intensifies*

[@blackosprey2219]

The ouroboros devours its tail..

[@Shiirow]

one of two things happen when you hear people cry stereotypes are bad, either A the realize that boiling everyone down to a single characterstic, a stereotype is all you have or B they defend their use of said stereotype by saying its only X-ist/phobic when _you_ do it.

[@depthstrider68]

This is also how people on twitter are like when claiming anime characters to be lgbt according to them Why are they like that actually?

[@neonnwave1]

@@depthstrider68 It's either a fetish thing or they're so brainwashed all they see are rainbows.

[@wolfmobile3693]

No Straight character that I have seen has ever spent the entire story line telling readers how straight they are and how amazing it is to be so.

[@1faithchick7]

To be fair, there are some guy charectors that constantly talk about the church they just had sex with. Constantly flirt with girl charectors. Constantly have sex with girls, etc. That is pretty much the exact same thing. It is equally annoying to me too.

[@TruthTrald]

@@1faithchick7 True but those characters you mentioned just like these new woke variants of them are also easily forgotten.

[@SebasTian58323]

there's nothing wrong with showing a straight or gay or lesbian character flirting in itself, or even having an active sex life. Or characters that make those things the most important things about them/the only things about them. That's an mediocre if annoying character trait in moderation. I think the problem is how common it is for new and newly changed LGBT characters to make it their only real personality trait at the expense of every other trait and even story. There are great examples of LGBT characters from years and years ago that people just pretend don't exist or don't know exist because it's not extremely emphasized that they are. Instead, the characters focus on other more important aspects like what kind of person are they, what drives them to be a hero, a villain, or what propels the story. And most straight/white ECT... characters from competent writers I've seen don't hyper focus on the facts that the character is straight or white. They just write the character as an actual person and everything else is incidental. Best advice I can give any writer for any character. Write the character like a person first, and anything else is just incidental. The character is female? Cool, now write a character that happens to be female. Don't make the fact that she's a girl the most important thing, it's just one aspect. What else is there? Is she kind, rude, funny or straight-laced?

[@wolfmobile3693]

@@SebasTian58323 Pretty much on point. I have no issues with gay characters if they are well written and contribute to the story and plot. Like if the only thing a gay character does is constantly wave rainbow flags or just talk about pride over and over again, then that character is just annoying and forgettable.

[@wolfmobile3693]

@@1faithchick7 If I saw a straight character only talking about that during an entire episode or movie, I'd complain about it too since that's just lazy horrible writing and serves no useful purpose to the story.

[@madambutterfly1997]

There are certain characters like that in My Hero Academia. Their motivation for wanting to be heroes is so they can just be seen as opposed to actually wanting to make a difference for the better.

[@andrewmcguinness1845]

If I remember correctly, the former were shown to be immoral narcissists.

[@alexfriedman918]

Yep, it bothered me the first couple of seasons - made me wonder why they claim to be training heroes, rather than just super powered people, because some definitely seemed more interested in being glory-hounds and/or bullies!

[@SpikeRazzor]

Worst yet, some where hero's for profit. You know something is messed up when even villains are disgusted by certain so-called hero's.

[@skittlz111]

That was done purposefully

[@CorundumDevil]

I cannot abide the one that is constantly crying.

[@Avarn388]

I'm glad you mention the idea of folks wanting superheroes first and just happen to be diverse.I mentioned this a while back I read a superhero book, called Corpies(It's apart of Drew Hayes superhero universe Superpowered) and it stars Owen Daniels. He was known as Titan, one of the greatest heroes in the world who happened to be LGBT. Owen was a retired hero, and a son of one of the major characters. His reasons for coming back were simply put he wanted to do the right thing. He was reminded by his son that he used to be a great hero and while his son had issues, he saw the good Titan did. As such, Owen came back. And the entire book is such: Titan coming back, making a difference and stopping a bad guy. I'm not apart of the LGBT community but I admire Owen because he is so bent on doing the right thing. The book doesn't ignore him being LGBT but it also doesn't shove it in your face. Owen is a character; and not a one note stereotype.

[@JohnSmith-cn4cw]

I think you kind of leave out a major plot point that while Titan, while one of the greatest heroes in the world, he hid the fact that he was gay, even down to having a hedro-marriage and son. Only after he was discovered by the press at a motel with another male hero did he "retire". But Yeah, the confrontation he had with Roy had a lot of build up and emotional investment. Him working his way back into the super hero community after that was a great story, good focus on who he hurt by quitting, and him try not only for his second chance, but creating second chances for others along the way.

[@jackhhun2698]

exactly if you have to push I'm black or I'm a girl or I'm gay thats not an identity being gay and sassy is 1 dimensional and stupid even gays don't let gays get away with that Only Lesbians often do that and its caused a lot of domestic violence in that group

[@YaBoiZackbannedmefordissent]

Off topic, but have I slipped into another timeline? The only Drew Hayes in comics I know was the guy who wrote/drew Poison Elves, and sadly, died in 2007.

[@Avarn388]

@@JohnSmith-cn4cw Oh yeah. I was trying to avoid giving major spoilers for those who wanted to read the book but you’re spot on.

[@martinportelance138]

Alan Moore did a lot of work that way. Ozymandias from Watchmen, for exemple, was homosexual but it was far from the character's prime relevance. He was so many things besides his sexual preferences.

[@Bigbadredg14nt]

The idea that you have to see yourself exactly in a character has always baffled me. The point of a story is to see or experience someone else’s life. See what makes them strong, and be able to recognize that in yourself. See what struggles they had and see that you had similar ones. Just because a character looks like me doesn’t make me like them.

[@azureaki]

You're talking about people that despise themselves and their own lives, but don't have the will to change. That's why they have a desperate need to see themselves in the "perfect" characters they create (characters that have full control over their lives, and the world around them, bending it to their will). They project what they want to be in the books. They want to be powerful enough to belittle everyone else, to always have the last word, to be constantly praised for achieving nothing and to be loved while giving nothing in return but their broken, toxic and useless selves.

[@deathstar602]

​@@azureaki Damn 💀

[@InfernosReaper]

Yeah, I don't want to "see myself" in characters. I want to see interesting characters and maybe related to them, which is not the same thing as trying to be them.

[@CerealExperimentsMizuki]

I'm thr complete opposite of Light Iamgay and even L for that matter yet I love both those characters even if both are irredeemable.

[@cheesecakeisgross4645]

I want to read books to pretend I'm not myself. The last thing I want to see in a character is myself.

[@mk_wizard]

The thing that depresses me is that superheroes have always been diverse when their heroism was showcased first. There are supers of every flavor. It's just that they don't make everything about their flavor. They want to be judged for their character. I mean, just look at North Star. He's gay, but he's entertaining, funny, badass and has some of the best burns and comebacks.

[@user-vg8ox3he1i]

Most writers under 30 didnt really read comics so they just assume they were all "white men who came from privilege". If youve only read a few batman or superman books thats your impression. If youve never read them and people tell you they were all racist then are you really going to check for yourself? No. Why would you even bother try to respect the source if you hear the creators were mostly white men and so were probably racist?

[@remc0s]

Brownstar

[@chucheeness7817]

'It's to be validated' I remember Darkwing Duck's motivation to be a crimefighter was just ego, but that show was a comedy, and it had a plethora of foils and funny characters for DW. Also, that description from Amazon was parody descriptive, but unironically intended as a serious pitch lol

[@jackhhun2698]

Oh yes exactly this whole wokeness is a Lot like DARE Hello fellow kids sort of attitude it was pushed by universities based on critical theory which says all relationships are only the oppressor and the oppressed ignore the fact that bdsm and dominatrix's exist no No submission = slavery so all must fight the oppressors white men and ignore all the gay and bi men just call them right winger if they disagree yeah yeah we're all tired of this bs

[@piegineer9130]

And in just in EP2 he lament on that that he care too much of being on headline that he fall into the obvious traps and get his daughter kidnapped which show character grow and that help make him to be more than just an EGO super hero also everytime he start care more about being seen than being a hero it always present as bad thing.

[@user-vg8ox3he1i]

Darkwing Duck also had a great set of villains that were a mix of batman and spiderman villains. Also his daughter and Launchpad were true believers so it all balanced out

[@flyboy6392]

Not to mention he ACTUALLY did do heroic things, maybe not for heroic reasons, but at least he was doing the right thing... most of the time

[@completelyferrouschemist6776]

In Miyamoto Musashi's Five Rings, he brings up in the Wind scroll what he sees are the failings of other schools of swordplay. A majority of it boils down to how other schools emphasized posturing, intimidation and secret techniques over actual practical application. The mythic Sasaki Kojiro is a good representation of the kind of swordplay Musashi disparaged -- a flashy style which used an impressive long sword. But Musashi killed Kojiro with an oar, within the very conditions which his opponent was supposedly a specialized master of. I think a lot of LGBT writing nowadays is like Sasaki Kojiro in that regard.

[@Gurt_The_Hurt]

That's honestly a great analogy!

[@animelytical8354]

​@@Gurt_The_Hurt is it? It falls short in so many ways. The similarity is that...the LGBT writing isn't effective. I guess the word "posture" applies, but a lot of modern writing would be slightly improved if written by someone capable of producing something that had style over substance. It's more like if you handed a random person on the street a sword

[@RallasterAsuremen]

Bad example! Sasaki Kojiro was a great swordsman who lost because he surrendered the initiative to an opponent that was brutal and unorthodox than him. If Miyamoto had to of fought in more traditional battlefield, the outcome may of well of turned out differently. At the very least the sharpened oar 'probably' wouldn't of been...maybe, it the Master of Five Rings after all.

[@adolfolerito6744]

@@VolkColopatrion well surely there are so few of those that don’t imbue all of their works with their own sexual preferences and ideas on politics and gender that they just become lost within all of those who do.

[@mirceazaharia2094]

Comparing Social Justice Wankers to a master swordsman who lost to a legendary swordsman and died in battle is a MASSIVE INSULT to that master swordsman.

[@tabbycat55]

It’s sad we live in a time when identity means more than character.

[@greathoundii6142]

Wow, this is as subtle as Q-Force.

[@imboredashell8675]

I can't make any jokes about this comic book, it's just too easy.

[@busyphilosopher6078]

It's not funny for making fun of it anymore. It's just sad

[@matthewphenix7952]

The comic is the joke.

[@jc7997aj]

​@@robinthrush9672 oh but they can use it tho.

[@JohnnyMcJim]

There is nothing wrong with reaching for the low hanging fruit. They do it all the time.

[@wadereynoldsdeadpool5768]

Like the alien whose super power is probably to shove his head up anyone's ass without Hancock's help?

[@kdog3908]

I recall being s***piled for saying, "There's nothing inherently interesting about being LGBT+." Thanks for making a video that confirms i'm not just howling into the void.

[@Jonkin715]

You're not. The novelity of a queer chracter wore off long ago....

[@Vaguer_Weevil]

That's such a simple yet effective way to describe it, and it's true, none of those people are interesting. They think that just being gay in of itself makes them special and unique, pfff please I've seen walls with discolored bricks more interesting than all of those people combined. The thing that annoys me most is when they seem like they're just doing it to make some sort of statement, instead of just being a normal person who happens to be gay or whatever. Yes, there absolutely are some who aren't actually what they claim to be, they just do it for quick and easy attention online. Can't say I'm too surprised honestly..

[@sterlingmartin3235]

A character should have a personality and a reason for being outside of simply being LGBT. It honestly bothers me that they want to create this big drama about 'coming out' and whatnot when that just really isn't that interesting. Sure there's some interpersonal drama there potentially but all adolescents have their various dramas that come in different flavors. And the trope of the world that hates LGBTs is also kind of boring. As a straight person I have little to no interest in that. Give me a gay character intermixed with a variety of other interesting characters who all have a shared vision and mission in the world and you might actually have an interesting story. What makes the LGBT aspect interesting isn't the LGBT stuff itself, but what it adds in contrast to other characters and people in the story. LGBT is also more interesting when it is treated rationally. Straw-manning anti-LGBT people is boring. When you make a real opponent to deviance they usually have a wider range of concerns/issues/reasons for feeling that way that don't get delved into. It's dumb when you just have a villain twirling his moustache and insisting that all gays must go. It is far more interesting when the gay man has to get along with a man who's got issues with gay people and they have to learn to work together and respect one another despite their differences in opinion.

[@darth3261]

There is also nothing to be proud about. It's just sexuality, most animals have it.

[@maxacorn]

one of the best gay characters even is bon clay from one piece. he identifies and both a man and a woman but its not his only character trait. he's flamboyant, loves to dance, believes love and friendship can bloom anytime, anywhere, and is extremely loyal to those he considers friends. hell, the dude's even trans since his powers let him be either a man or a woman anytime he wants. and i don't think oda was trying to do anything ground breaking with him. he just wrote the character as a character.

[@violetmoon2283]

I love how he acts like his sexuality is the first thing people learn about him and he has to be clever and quick on his feet to avoid new people finding out. Like, just don't tell them if you're that worried about it.

[@Untolddead]

It's crazy how the garbage fanfic self insert writers got jobs while the actual talents got looked over because they didn't openly check boxes.

[@JonSnow-YThandle]

That Amazon synopsis sounds like it's written by a stand-up comedian to make hard fun of the fringe.😂

[@GeorgeCowsert]

"Pride and Price" unironically sounds like a good title for a book that points out the sheer stupidity of this new culture we fabricated for no reason.

[@Luke7169]

“I know writers who use subtext and they're all cowards.” - Garth Marenghi

[@dedalionarts6077]

With the video topic in mind... What's your point?

[@jneilson7568]

His book has a joyfully silly amount of over explaining...

[@LuigiTheMetal64]

Storytelling, characterization, and worldbuilding are important in a series. Representation should have been minor where people can love stories and characters that are different from themselves and their lives. Manga are great because despite the homogeneous characters, they are different in terms of backstories, motives, and personalities that make them people, despite being fictional. Manga are made for Japan, and never should be changed for a small group of people who do not support the medium. Fans and potential customers should be catered to, to earn the money and support from.

[@EbenezerEibenhardt]

You can't do representation legitimately unless you don't care about equality. The moment the agenda steps in front of the art, you've gone from making entertainment to making propaganda.

[@EbenezerEibenhardt]

Not a single article of profanity in my comment and it gets shadow banned anyways. Smh. This website is such garbage.

[@АндрейНеугодников-м6е]

What did you say?

[@hncg-x1601]

The franchise also make manga because they insprastion comes from Japan that they decide also make Nime and manga, so I tell you they the 3/4 best group you can look up

[@KardboardKenny]

Reject Modernity. Embrace Pulp Heroism. - Razorfist

[@Johnlindsey289]

Damn right

[@extendedlimits]

Dude all I want is character development again, that's all I want 😭

[@PainInTheS]

The price is : hardly any sales. Manga says : thank you! 🤣🤣🤣

[@The_Real_WildMonkeyDog]

I just can’t get over how awesome the new intro is. But as always I really enjoy your videos. I don’t always agree, but you nailed it with this one for sure.

[@EvilExcalibur]

It's a tragedy that so much focus is put on "what" characters are rather than "who" they are. I personally am a straight man and yet one of my favorite tragic love stories comes from season one of the Umbrella Academy, specifically that of Klaus. Even though their homosexuality added another layer of poignancy given the time period the story at its core is about love and loss first and foremost, allowing those that aren't LGBT to connect just as well. It is a universal aspect of the human condition viewed through an LGBT filter rather than an exclusively LGBT story. Every single story involving LGBT (or any other such minorities) that resonated with general audiences did this. Yes, unique demographics have unique struggles but they are all at the end of the day just as human as everyone else and it's that universal humanity that will get people to relate and empathize to how these unique struggles affect them.

[@Kal_g]

Seriously, if the show "Intervention" gets brought back, it needs to feature folks like Broken Glass, Magdeline Vissagio, Donny Cates, Vita Ayala Sana Amanat, Tom King, Tom Taylor, Tini Howard, Al Ewing, Kwanza Johnson, and Alex de Campi on it. These people are mental.

[@jameslazaridis4180]

Hey What did you say Tom Taylor he a good friend of my

[@worldcomicsreview354]

I love how "Broken Glass" has just become his nickname overnight. Though it does actually sound kinda cool, like a pro wrestler, and not, well, that guy.

[@boobsbr]

Donny Cates is mental? I liked Buzzkill.

[@skittlz111]

The saddest thing about this is that, If Joe glass ever did see this, he would most likely either only see the thumbnail, or watch it for a minute or two before simply labeling it "hatespeech" without actually engaging with any points made

[@10-eproductions25]

We had a great coming out story with the whole Richie coming out to Virgil in Static Shock.

[@spyrall2210]

The fabman summary literally sounds like super villain origin story lol.

[@nickmoranis2865]

Enigma did being gay and accepting it so well. And it had brilliant artwork. Pride looks like a Napoleon Dynamite doodle

[@khululyp]

But hecwork hours on the shading!

[@blackcitadel9]

I never understood the idea of "seeing yourself" in stories. I always read stories to see a world that wasn't mine, a place that's different, a person that wasn't me. If only for just a little while.

[@TheJpmuzz]

You have a great take on this. My initial take was @1:30 when they list what they are fighting... Villain and criminals aren't the first thing listed. They are fighting misrepresentation which read to me that they will be beating up average citizens who who the wrong pronoun. They are the Villains'.

[@Dtokyopop]

Your analysis of Glass's comics career is by far the most thorough!

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

1:45 So the book centers around someone who thinks his being see lesser then he is and wants everyone to know how great he is, with everything else being secondary? This sounds like the plot of an episode of some superhero show ment to teach some showboat and/or teenage character some humility, but I'm guessing that goes right over this book's writer's head.

[@steveb9713]

He should’ve took a page out of daredevil and do a superhero origin story in a small area of a big city, street level stuff, like local gays being terrorized in the community, police won’t help, dude has some kind of powers, hides his identity, etc

[@HobDobson]

It seemed to me that 7 of 9 had more humanity when she was introduced than Joe Glass's cardboard cutouts.

[@stenh.6243]

I wanna be saved by the bear :3 "Thank you for saving me Leather Bear!" "Yeah, uhm, this is the third time this week you've set your kitchen on fire.."

[@Diresilence]

For someone who quotes "Happens to be black", I like to quote "Some people have no idea what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.", "Don’t just teach your children to read. Teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything.", and "Bulls**t is truly the American soundtrack.". I feel they all fit the comic in their own way, and i'm tired of being told I should like something because it represents. Make it good, and people will like it. Make it unrelatable to the average reader and it'll tank. it's as simple as that.

[@bretr7327]

JSG, you and a bunch of other KZbinrs have been putting out this truth for years now and it’s largely a reason why you have so many subscribers. Thanks for staying strong and putting out great content.

[@LaF0rge_]

I think The Expanse was the perfect genre first happens to be diverse example.

[@harshvardhanjha4611]

Somebody in the future will take that comic and write a essay, pointing out how it was metaphorical for that time, and how the people took it quite literally on its story. Because that’s just how these things work.

[@ezechiikpe3600]

Pride goes before a fall. They never learn.

[@clogs4956]

Heigh-ho! for the innocent days when I realised that the X-Men were just teenagers… They felt isolated from everyone except a few friends; felt awkward and different, yet realised they were special. They didn’t get on well with authority, but a father figure sheltered them, tried to give them the benefit of his experience, develop their talents and guide them towards adulthood, sometimes by being gentle and sometimes by driving them to succeed. But, what do I know? I have no agenda to push.

[@kyrenity]

4:00 perfectly demonstrates the problem with a lot of young/modern/woke writers. They don't want the reader to interpret anything in their own way but rather tell the reader literally what they should think. This is why the X-Men had an impact on this writer, but his comic didn't have an impact on its readers/audience. It's because art forms, and when it comes to telling stories, should allow the viewer/reader to think for themselves and understand their problems/struggles at a more foundational level, rather than at the surface. When things are this shallow, most people aren't going to be interested; it's too narrow and direct about its messaging that it's going to appeal to very specific people. And therein lies the problem with "representation" in media today, it teaches people to be less tolerant and understanding of others as we can only relate to those that are exactly like them right down to the exact shade of skin tone or gender identity. And by doing this, you make every character exclusively relatable to a very, very tiny fraction of the population. This is why you need metaphors and broader ideas, to expand your reach and connect with people on a deeper, more human level.

[@VorxDargo]

I really wish companies and writes would listen to this guy, everything he said is common sense stuff you'd thing would be easy to do yet seems to elude comic, TV, and movie writers.

[@jacobwiren8142]

I remember reading a webcomic called "Johnny Saturn". It was a superhero story and it had a gay hero as a side character. Him being gay was barely mentioned, though. Almost as if his hero qualities were more important...

[@verngriffiths5933]

I met this creator at a con in the UK quite a few years ago and he was a lovely guy. It was a indie comic con, so all the stalls were people selling their own creations and so they were all incredibly passionate about what they were selling including Mr Glass. I was with my daughter and we both thought that The Pride was a good fun name for a gay Justice League and that the 'bear' character turns into a bear made us laugh and it looked like it would be a cool book. I bought the book (just the first issue at the time, I don't think it had been collected into a trade, yet) and some badges, that my daughter wanted to distribute among her friends, a few of whom were coming out at that time. I read the issue and the problem wasn't the 'gay focus' of the book or the characters, the problem was that it was shit. The art was pretty clunky, and the dialogue was dreadful, it is as a real shame, because Mr Glass was full of good ideas and enthusiasm when we spoke, but none of it transferred to the page. My daughter thought the same, and we didn't buy any more, the badges were cool, though.

[@mechgouki7999]

Wow, what a brilliant concept. I can't imagine why this book doesn't sell.

[@richardcoleman3425]

You are absolutely spot-on with this, Dude.

[@stephanedorion992]

No one said anything but he felt out of place... because his subconscious knew he wasn't like he should. And his inner self tried to rectify, failed and changed the default settings.

[@carbumb4229]

Listening to this, I was thinking a story of a modern man who acts straight in public taking on the persona of "Straight GUY." Just like a superhero Straight GUY would be way over the top, a caricature, of what a straight guy is so when he is alone or with a ally can act normal allowing pathos to show with more contrast. This would be similar to how Allmight was in the first two seasons of MHA. There would be no actual superpowers just the alter ego aspect. As long as most of the side characters are not villains it would work, showing the fear even amongst those who are kind and even friendly. One or two bad guys would be enough with a couple of people who are oblivious on how insensitive they are being would be the limit.

[@cybertramon0012]

Makes me think about this Comixology original series called Superfreaks. Had a look at the previews when it was coming out, and got turned off immediately. The first issue went on about how the heroes lost touch with regular people, how they were too busy being afraid of the new generation of teens taking their spotlight to mentor them, using them only as gophers... basically, all the stuff about how adults are useless and it's up to us kids to save the world crap. And then the second issue showed us a flashback of one of these teen superheroes... being called on by text to help with something and responding with how she didn't feel up to it. Several times, in fact. And each time, she was lying around or eating. So the series tries its best to make the adults look bad, and manages to also make its teens look even worse.

[@muddledmess]

Imagine a comic about a bunch of 2nd tier superheroes, who are all flying solo, but not getting anywhere, start to regularly come together at a gay bar, and for one reason or another, become a team. How hard is that?

[@ruthsantos6845]

Bears and bondage tell me you are a fanfic writer from tumblr without telling me you are a writer from tumblr 😂😂😂

[@ObliviousNaga]

Remember when heroes saved people....

[@kevissimo]

I think you are one of the best and most articulate voices on youtube. Keep up the great work.

[@vana.johnson8845]

I always love your honest takes keep'em coming JSG...!🙌🏾✊🏾👊🏾

[@HeatGoesOn]

The V for Vendetta example was spot on. Even most "normal: Christians never would have never agreed with what happened to Valerie even if they disagreed with her lifestyle.

[@sneakyskunk1]

A hero is a hero. I don't care who is in love with who when the world destroyer is getting punched out. Love who you love, but save me.

[@yanlucasdf]

i think a comic types like theses would unironically love is one where the page is made with well polished alluminun sheets they only want to see themselves in a book 2 feel validated, can only write themselves and their experience, only wanna read about their experience, they deadass want the comic 2b a mirror, so make it a mirror

[@EliSkylander]

As one of the people in "a certain political and religious demographic," I will say that I have found stories starring (as the protagonists) unrepentant murderers, gays etc, horny dancers, amoral avengers, and all sorts of folks which I find personally reprehensible... I have found those stories and characters fascinating, challenging, informing, beautiful. Because, as you say, they were written as characters first, whatever their + was second, and given an opportunity to shine in a story that suited their strengths and the growth they had to go through. So as a guy who barely agrees with you politically, I still believe you are on-target here. If a story is written to show off sexuality, I don't care. But if it is a story in which sexuality etc is a feature but not the point, I am all in for it because the writers go to the effort to make me care about the characters first. It is the craft, not the "you outta care!" shouting, that makes me care.

[@Snowmon89]

I actually read a comic book (Like almost 13 years ago.) about a superhero who was gay. In fact, the main plot and main conflicts (inner turmoil) pretty much centered around the fact that he was gay. However, it was revealed that it wouldn't have mattered if he was gay or straight, the villains would have still targeted him for the same reason. (In this case, think of it like Raven's relationship to her Father in the Teen Titans show... except the portal can only be opened during... Okay, that could have been left out, but still.) Honestly, I couldn't finish reading it due to my own Gymnophobia (fear of nudity). However, at least in my opinion, it was actually a pretty well written story with great (well rounded) characters. And when the chips were down, the main character focused more on saving people than he did at getting recognized. (Not that it apparently mattered since... ehem "fanart" exists) Anyway, it is LEAGUES better than that trash looks AND sounds.

[@SapphireDragonDX]

You know it's pathetic when the best "gay superhero" stories came from those cartoons about The Ambiguously Gay Duo that played on SNL back in the day, and those were just satirical comedy. :P

[@Jabberstax]

Whatever happened to the days of keeping bedroom preferences private?

[@BlitzedNostradamus]

Diggin' the new art, bud.

[@DanteDelorian]

One of your best uploads man. Measured and poignant 👌

[@Cleron_O_Andarilho]

Love the animation, also the symbol.

[@cbrreezzyy69]

That Amazon synopsis sounds like a parody lol the fact that it’s not says it all

[@brianchristgau1415]

Probably the best, most cogent take I've heard on the subject yet.

[@kevingallagher188]

I can pretty much enjoy any genre if it is well made. If the quality is lax it immediately makes everything look worse. I used to be very opinionated about the art style I was invested in reading but if the artist is able to show action and emotional storytelling well I am able to enjoy a variety of techniques. It's easy for any reader to tell how much effort is used to produce a comic. If you want people to love it you have to show it.

[@rachelknightonline]

I have a story I’m working on about a two best friends who are trying to do the right thing and uncover a conspiracy that controls their home town. The fact that the main characters grow to have a lesbian relationship comes secondary.

[@dronesclubhighjinks]

When marketing the product starts with proclaiming diversity, it's obvious that storytelling was not their biggest concern. Rings of Power provided an excellent example of this although there are many others.

[@ronynninjastar2414]

Well said JSG👍🏾. Unfortunately, Joe is too far gone to take any constructive criticism. He's still begging for free exposure on Twitter 😂.

[@DemonicRemption]

@ronynninjastar2414 Tsk, if only it were that simple. Shoot I've been promoting my comics on Twitter for a few years and have yet to get a single sale. Eric July for example is succeeding for two reasons. 1. He's already built up the audience from his subscribers, and two he's got connections with people like Greg of Nerdrotic. Me? I lack such things because I'm an introvert who doesn't know who to talk to or ask for help. Hence why I'm having trouble with this.

[@ronynninjastar2414]

@@DemonicRemption then I suggest you change some things about yourself. I'm also trying to do some self improvement. Read "The 50th Law" by 50 Cent and Robert Greene. It's a great book about fearlessness.

[@rpgcraftsman520]

Been a while. Gotta say, I love the new intro.

[@FrankR_23]

I was going to mention Star Trek but then you mentioned it and only referenced the ones that matter lol, awesome! Comics are already niche and he targeting a niche of a niche of a niche with his comic and he’s surprised it’s not successful, maybe if he focused more on the art and less on the activism he would be more successful.

[@geneawisea2708]

My god who designed these characters? They didn’t even bother to change anything but the letter from “Prime” from Malibu Comics!!

[@seanmurphy7011]

I just randomly watched your "Avery Brooks Explains Why SJW Characters Suck" video the other day. I can't believe it's been 5 years and we are still talking about this shit.

[@joshhitxoriginal9367]

As someone who is currently writing a comic book I am sometimes left flabbergasted, like do some people really think shoehorning in poor representation won't be noticed? Like somehow we won't see their flat, milquetoast caricatures of an identity and have the gall to call them characters? Kinda glad the direction some comics go because at this point I'm getting a crash course on what not to do.

[@darchangeldavid]

Damn that intro is fire! Great job breaking this all down. The only sad part about it is that the writer isn’t going to listen.

[@wifegrant]

Pride, selfishness, and seeking validation/fame are qualities of villains in comic books...not the heroes.

[@MildraTheMonkVT]

A few years ago, I interviewed Barron Bell, the writer of "Dominion: Fall of the House of Saul", a sci-fi take on the first book of Saul. In that interview, I barely talked at all about the religious aspect and instead focused on themes that could be seen as universalist. This is because I wanted to get across that it's a story that can be enjoyed regardless of religious background. I have never read any of Pride, but based on what I see here, I don't see any bit of that universality. This is something written for an audience of one.

[@Erowid13]

i wonder what southern state JSG went to where they locked him up for being an artist and he was forced to write a story of his life on toilet paper. those southern states sure are wacky!

[@franks2796]

As someone who lives in the south and knows plenty of gay people I can say that it happens................ In his imagination.

[@timothymoss5007]

One of the characters appears to be an actual bear. Feels a mite on the nose.

[@gnarpow]

I’m so glad you brought up episode 3 because I had a couple channels bring it up and I ignored it until I saw it. THEN, it it all died down, no traction. It was a human story, a story of loneliness and connection, not GAY. I’ve thought about this a bit. I’m straight but don’t like overly heterosexual moments either. In other words, it cuts both ways. The humanity is important not the forced sexuality

[@Timothy_-ve2zp]

1:32 *"In The Pride, FabMan is sick of being seen as a joke"* Gee I wonder why he's seen as a joke especially with the name FabMan

[@sleepygryph]

Even the most reactionary guy can have a connection with a gay character because as human beings we all can understand love, not sexuality but love, and there is a whole spectrum of emotions that you can draw from that everyone connects with that aren't special to just anyone group. What I see happen a lot with agenda first driven stories is that they don't try to create a reason for empathy, plenty of sympathy but never empathy. Some even go the opposite route ensuring that you know that you are the villain.

[@bej4987]

I say keep the bear as a joke character and throw away absolutely everything else and make a decent story.

[@The_Real_Fomsie]

Subvert expectations... make the bear the only strait one on the team.

[@worldcomicsreview354]

​@@The_Real_Fomsie Like able-bodied people sneaking into the Paralympics. "You were straight this whole time?" "I'm sorry, it's just you guys have way better interior design in yor secret base!"

[@p.d.l7023]

Agreed

[@catbert2412]

Ok i do have to give him credit for creating new characters instead of changing existing ones. Though he needs to learn it’s the story that gets sales not the politics or sexuality of the characters

[@denexki]

Pride leads to ones downfall which is why humility is more respected.

[@nunyabizz8730]

JSG, I couldn't have put it better myself. Too many people, regardless of their beliefs , sexual orientations, cultural backgrounds, etcetera, are too damn emotional. Critical thought is such a rare commodity in this century.