THE PRIMARCH'S SCATTERING! THE VERSION OF CHAOS

Hey everyone Rho here! Today we kick off our Scattering week! As we discuss the Primarch's Scattering... according to the Gods of Chaos!
Spoiler Warning to begin as the events we're discussing today are from the Horus Heresy novel "False Gods" by Graham McNeill. As always I really recommend you read the stories for yourself first without spoilers! As that's the best way to enjoy the lore for yourself.
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[@WatcherInTheDark007]

Another perspective: Big E saw and recognized Horus. "I know you". E scans futures and realizes Horus just became a grandfather paradox, therefore necessitating the scattering, similar to John and the string. Big E begged Horus to "turn from this path", not in the pastscape, but in the currentscape. In other words, saw him, recognized him, hit refresh on his foresight web page, and asked Horus not to start the heresy.

[@justinanderson2460]

This is exactly how I took it as well.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

We see three versions of this event, two on location and one after the fact. Horus's, Argel Tal's and Constantine Valdor's. I personally believe that Erda was central, that Chaos took full advantage of her decision and that The Emperor's secrets and lies were excellent cards for Chaos to play against the Primarchs.

[@Matihood1]

I personally think Erda was just delusional and made it all up. I refuse to believe that the entirety of the modern 40k setting happened because some woman thought that throwing her children into the literal hell would be better than whatever the Emperor planned.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@Matihood1 "some women" is harsh. The Female donor to the Primarchs, an ancient Perpetual and the symbolic Mother-Earth-Goddess to the Emperors Sky-Father-God.

[@Matihood1]

​@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen All according to her. Hence the part with delusions. In my opinion, Erda's existence serves nothing but to diminish the Emperor's acomplishments. The Primarchs used to be the Emperor's grand work. Now it's the Emperor's and Erda's. I don't like her as a character. I didn't like that whole book, to be honest.

[@paulelder9488]

The funny part about that is all 3 groups are in the same room but cant see one another. Dam good duck blinds.

[@kenfisher2329]

Don't forget Lorgars version also.

[@paulelder9488]

Just a thought. The tank that Horus broke open may have killed a primarch as it was pulled into the warp if it was in the there for a long time. But we know one primarch was left on Terra. Alpharious. The alpha legion primarch may not been destined to stay on Terra but left there as a contingency of the chaos gods to ensure all the primarchs survived the scattering. The breach in the pod along with the dimension rip may also be a why we got 2 primarchs for the alpha legion and why it seemed even the Emperor never referred to the 21st primarch. Just a thought.

[@silent_stalker3687]

“Alpharious, i an your father/brother.” -Horus

[@justinanderson2460]

The level of paradoxical, time and mind-fuckery involved here makes it all the more likely this is accurate considering its the Primarch of the Alpha Legion we're talking about.

[@tensei_alter]

The most insidious lies are the ones wrought by omission of information- for in those lies exists truth, and from the warping of the truth is the lie given form and power.

[@KarbhonBlaC]

" my son's were taken from me " . One of my earliest favorites you read from the emperor decides his plan when he spoke to Magnus " so no one could twist my words or intent . "

[@soccerandtrack10]

if he cared about them other then war,he would let angron,the night hunter,mortarian,and pertirobo get help, (war just made them go crazy faster and be more insecure=they would go crazy without eribus munipulateing them.) ,and teach magnus about the warp(by himself),and teach him not to be arragant. i think the emporor made horus care alot about power/look/image and being remembered and he probbally told him about time/being immortal=this is why he listened to chaos, the emporor brainwashed to think about time and people being small, maybe horus was self obsorbed/a primearch because of being small in time,and thats why he needed to be remembered,to be a lie=he was big,when he was still small like every1 else...

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@soccerandtrack10many people only learn through experience, and if you can see the future you can pick a path that gives everyone the experiences they need to become the best versions of themselves.

[@inquisitorwalmarius6650]

there wherent time for it, removing the nails would even have been deadly for angron unfortunately.@@soccerandtrack10

[@justinanderson2460]

​@@soccerandtrack10+ I think a lot of this is countered by the idea of there being some (so far unrevealed) time constraint on the Great Crusade and why the Emperor needed to do it in a certain time not allowing him the luxury to go too far when it came to helping his sons. It's also possible that there is some truth to the idea that part of him having a pact with the Chaos Gods that he planned out half of his sons falling so he just gave up on the broken ones. It's hard though because there are contradictions contradictions over the place.

[@zrrion6the6insect6]

I feel like the emperor seeing horus there and asking him "I know you?" was to gauge his response to determine if it was a trick. Once the emperor knew it was not a trick and that horus had fallen then he knew that there would be a heresy and possibly how long it would take to begin. If that's the case then letting the primarchs get scattered like he does in the vision doesn't quite track but all of the decisions post scattering make more sense if this is how the emperor actually learns about the heresy.

[@justinanderson2460]

I think this is accurate to at least some degree. Horus hadn't fallen yet at this point and as even the Emperor mentions, the future is in constant flux but perhaps seeing Horus in this position was part of the reason that he had a time-frame on the Crusade? I dunno. The knowledge of the future making him realise that he needed to let them scatter as it was just how things were destined to go is possible but that contradicts the idea of the future being changeable etc. So many points of contradiction despite threads of thought linking together to make sense.

[@21blacky]

In one of the books I read recently, I think it was Malcador talking to Russ, stating that all the primarchs were deliberately scattered by design, Russ had to be on Fenris, it wasn't just chance Chaos may have tried to sabotage it and failed, or the sabotage may of been this incident, of showing Horus from the future, the past and this may have looked like a sabotage attempt to the emperor, of future and past and present. But either way, the emperor absolutely did intend for the scattering, curious and likely believed that sole survival and environment would mould very different primarchs with different attributes necessary to conquer the galaxy, I assume his visions led to only 1 route to conquer the galaxy, the primarchs and their scattering, with likely an alternate vision of it failing, which was always a risk, but without taking the risk, knowing the galaxy would never be conquered

[@justinanderson2460]

This makes a lot of sense. It also explains why he was sad to have to do it and why seeing Horus made him sad initially because it meant that the potential future he saw where Horus was going down-hill was happening in the future, hence why he begged Horus not to go down that path while there was still time for him to change his mind. Once the scattering was done though, he simply hardened himself and saw the potential suffering of the Primarchs as necessary - or it was another lie by Chaos who simplymade out he didn't care much like how they lied and told Horus that the Big E wanted to conquer the Galaxy for himself so that he could become a God.

[@Logan-xl6yl]

Russ was 100% supposed to be raised on Fenris

[@garypipe1770]

Great video I think Chaos revealed some truth to Horus but only halve truths as both lies and truth by nature can be chaotic. I think the biggest lie was the representation of The Emperor. Considering Horus had been with The Emperor more than any other primarchs then chaos knew they had to get Horus emotionally comprimised and fearful first before they showed there version of the scattering otherwise he would see the lie.

[@TK199999]

There maybe another possibility based on Majorkill's theory about the Primarchs. That the EoM went to Molech to break his own soul into 21 pieces and place them into Primarchs. With each world the infant Primarchs arriving at prepared by the EoM during the DAoT before Old Night. But as for Horus's 'vision' nothing in it can be trusted as all of it was meant to turn him into Sacrificial King.

[@justinanderson2460]

I was under the impression that Majorkill subscribed ro the theory of the Primarchs being physical vessels for 20 minutes warp gods/entities that the Emperor managed to somehow gain at Molech and then stuffed THOSE into said vessels. For one thing, splitting his own soul is the opposite of what made him powerful in the first place (the merging of psyker/shaman souls) and I can't see how giving those portions away would have made him from simply very powerful into the Godlike being he became after Molech unless he deliberately got a massive boost in power so that he could afford to split his soul and then still be outlandishly more powerful than he was and left himself with a much larger portion of his original soul than he gave to the Primarchs who only got a small aspect of him each. Then again, I'm not sure there's any real evidence ro suggest the Emperor got a direct power boost personally from Molech. He got "what he needed take the Primarchs" so to speak however, the "him getting a personal boost" part is only something Chaos has said, no-one else unless I'm missing something. Am I missing missing something?

[@browniechann88blackie55]

So the alpha legion and night haunters dont have much for demon princes, a few aspiring champions a piece, but the two seem to eschew the ideas of chaos worship altogether interesting tidbit i like. Both still have high purity in their gene seed from bodies recovered and its quaint to see most recovered alpha astartes bodies have been cosmetic instead of corruption

[@paulcharles3483]

❤ love your vids

[@majorgrumpybum3161]

So the emp knew what horus was going to do at a later date

[@darcsteel]

With the scene of the 20 palaces beneath the Imperial palace shows they meant to raise the primarchs on Terra. I think he realized they would be stronger if allowed to develop away from him so he let them be scattered

[@Scorpionwincheater88]

Lol no

[@darcsteel]

@@Scorpionwincheater88 Cool no to what?

[@NielsMulvad]

I disagree. This is something the gods of chaos is showing to Horus, who they want to use. As such everything is to be taken with a grain of salt. Just like the scene previously where Horus is shown the status of the loyalist sons. It happened just like the scouring, but it is half truths, smoke and mirrors. And as such who ever caused this (be it Erda or someone/something else), it isn't as simple as the Big E being able to prevent it. No I rather think that while the struggle might have caused the Primarchs to be stronger as you mentioned, it also caused them to be divided. Where as I believe the BigE, would much rather have had the chance to mold the 20(21) primachs in his image. He could have indoctrinated them and ensured they not only believed in his truth, but also that they understood their own unique gifts. So no, I am of the firm believe that if he could have, he would have kept his sons, his generals, his weapons of war close at hand.

[@Scorpionwincheater88]

@@darcsteel emperor and malcador wanted to grow and educate primarchs on terra for sure

[@tarhas3504]

I would say the turn from this path line could be to Erda as well.

[@jasonhefner7704]

"I know you?" Perhaps Horus was being obfuscated by the Chaos Powers from the Emperor of that time. Part of their plans/desires to stop the Emperor from protecting Humanity from their depredations.

[@lordcrakkin965]

Yes it is the truth..."from a certain point of view". That is the mark of a master manipulator. They tell the truth (ish). That is the mark of Chaos. What we do not see is the butterfly effects of what would have happened if the Emperor had interfered and stopped the scattering. The Big E, in his immortal wisdom, chose the path forward for humanity, at the sacrifice of his sons, at the sacrifice of becoming a figure of worship, at the sacrifice of the eye of terror ripping open, Magnus/Wolf battles, belly bursting horrors that spawn Chaos Marines...ALL OF IT was better than the alternative that would have come to be if he had stopped the scattering. So saith Lord CraKKin, Order of the Sigillite. Your lack of faith in the Emperor's will is troubling Wolf Lord. My agents are in route to your sector for imperial realignment. Excellent Vid Rho. 10 out of 10 as always.

[@Dragoth1337]

Can the answer be both?

[@kenfisher2329]

Valdor has a different perspective of this event. When he spoke of it the EMPEOR was holding the entire palace up from collapse. So Astartes, an he could gather as much research as possible before the EMPEOR had to release his psychic ability and let it collapse. And Neaoth knew Erda was to blame for letting the chaos warp storm arrive in the first place. So, which is a lie. Valdor, Neaoth-EMPEOR, or The hated Erribus.??¿?????

[@justinanderson2460]

Fuck Erebus.

[@fuzzywolfcub]

Only the god emperor has seen the golden path

[@johnd2058]

As a subreddit dedicated to the matter says, fuck Erebus.

[@justinanderson2460]

+1 Fuck Erebus. I'm still dreaming about the day the Black Library FINALLY let's Kharn catch up with him in a situation where her can't use his slippery gypsy warp magic to teleporting away like the cowardly slime he is. One day....

[@Archon3960]

If the theory about the Emperor taking 20 minor Warp gods to create the Primarchs is indeed true, then Chaos had some monicker of valid truth. A little pebble amidst a sea of lies. But it was enough to convince Horus. As for the Scattering, no, I do not think the Emperor planned it. Be it because of the Dark Gods, happenstance, or because of _her,_ it was one of the small unknowns the Emperor had not accounted for. ;/

[@justinanderson2460]

The most convincing lies are those which contain the most truth.

[@mikevasquez1103]

Wasn't it Erda being stupid?

[@tauras3108]

It was so convenient for every primarh to land on a planet so suited to their temperament. That could only be the chaos gods . Just saying

[@21blacky]

nah the chaos gods would of made sure they landed on incorrect worlds. no way would they let them land in the correct places intended, unless they knew the intended ones guaranteed the most traitors hmmm

[@Scorpionwincheater88]

Damn what a load of bullcrap. Never believe anything that comes from chaos

[@lawrencebray9623]

Chaos played Horus right into their hands with that! Use the Sons ( ones that never believed in allowing Humans to rule in their place). Which sadly was all the Traitor Sons and I believe even Khan and Russ had issues with that ending as well. But the big issue was E didn't go into the warp to just steal their power to become a god, he played Chaos so well with that himself. He took some of their power, to learn it and use it against them. As in the current setting( 42m) as Abby & 10,000 eyes leader (fallen DA librarian) can't remember his name. They believe that if Big E dies in the real realm that he will go to the warp with his entire being. +spiritual and destroy the old four and chaos would be destroyed. That's why so many warbands are turning to chaos undivded. So if we don't worship a sole warp God we won't have all the mutations lol. Hahahahahah. And even they are tired of the chaos gods lies and want out of it. As we now know Corax is half man half crow. And is a good guy. Wild how chaos didn't make him give in

[@MrM-jb6ps]

Would things have been different if there was an Empress by his side

[@cameron1366]

Her name is Malcador

[@corranhuss]

Erda and Malcador

[@TheBigExclusive]

"Scat-tering"?? 😂 I think you need to a MUCH better title.

[@justinanderson2460]

Ski-bi-di-ba-bap-a-dap-a-dab-a-do-a!!