The PvE Preview Debate feat. KarQ, EvaLangwin & GURU

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Timestamps
0:00 Upcoming PvE Missions
47:11 Flashpoint
1:09:26 Overwatch Mini-Series
1:31:06 Feedback to the Devs
1:39:30 The Overwatch World Cup
1:53:11 Overwatch At The Moment
1:56:25 Overwatch Season 6 Hopes

[@Jereonn]

It's kinda weird to ask people to review something they are not even remotely interested in. Not sure what Blizzard was thinking here when there are more than enough lore and PvE enthousiasts in the content creator 'poule'. I guess we will have to wait and see for ourselves how the missions stand up either way

[@IgorJCorrea]

The guy unironically says "what character in this game is complex other than lifeweaver?", he's gonna give completely useless feedback, there's people that can just be clueless about so many things even for a game they're good at, blizzard is doing everything wrong as usual

[@BridgyP]

It sounds like a bunch of people didn't go or weren't ask. Bruh the even asked this only fans girl for her opinion ☠️

[@hexia6760]

Might aswell not watch this podcast. Within 8mins KarQ already said he hadn't even watched the 2019 Rio trailer, and Eve can't remember the specifics of when she spawned in the spawnroom, gg.

[@JonnyZerep]

I agree. No one here but SVB gives a shit and want to keep playing the same repetitive pvp. Lol

[@sd-king2916]

@SVB you are such a skilled host. I appreciate all the quality overwatch discussions you have brought the community over the years.

[@mich5403]

This is said every single podcast and it really cannot be overstated, the man really has a gift.

[@fuscello]

@@mich5403yeah it’s incredible how he is so consistent at making podcasts with all kind of guests good

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

a $15 queue dodger is WILD asf😭😭😭

[@beausis]

KarQ's idea of replayability for a campaign experience is grinding for titles 🤦‍♀. I mean, I hope it's in there for guys like him. It doesn't effect me if it is and seems like a simple thing that requires minimal resources. Call me crazy but grinding for titles in a campaign has no appeal to me

[@karlach-s7h]

Blizzard will pander to those people though because they have lower standards and won't ask for more than a middle finger up the ass.

[@Ally.076]

Same I would prefer Easter eggs hidden lore you can find being able to explore and learn more based on how much you look around Im the type of person who will look through every nook and cranny in pve games and that what keeps me coming back 😂

[@Vealkutlette]

4 years and they trickle feed us mediocre content. Look what they did to my boy. 😢

[@KingOfNebbishes]

After closely watching developments since 2019, what OW2 looks like now is one step away from maintenance mode. Shovel out what you can finish of the old content, constantly shut down past promises, everyone just saying, "Let's shovel it out to the players now and maybe fix it later." If sales dip, watch it enter maintenance mode in 2024.

[@mutant9137]

Yep looks like they are scaling down to churnable content and will release a hero and some maps everyone in awhile to keep veterans and some new players interested

[@lilwintery6434]

based off their earnings report i don't think they will put the game on maintenance mode, but they always could at any moment

[@pippo17173]

You know your screwed when tf2 and paladins are churning out better content then blizzard lol

[@Tsunder623]

​@pippo17173 I'm sorry, what is paladins or tf2 putting out that's better? Lmao

[@cia4u401]

mfers really do see a paywalled version of archives delayed by 4 years and be like "oh it was good 6.5/10" i swear ya'll are the most battered wife community out there

[@otterpoppin]

Yeah it’s honestly horrible that Blizzard is pulling this shit and actually getting away with it. I say that as someone who loves OW. 🤡💀

[@CROSSFADE69]

We know

[@verbalmasturbator]

so when will we hold content creators responsible for hyping the shit up when they knew about it the whole time.

[@thedofflin]

I dunno about you but 6.5 is not a good rating. For something that's taken this long you expect at least a 9/10

[@cia4u401]

@@thedofflin 6.5 is quite literally just above mediocre, which would be fine if like you said it hadn't taken them 4 years to deliver on this

[@CROSSFADE69]

Glad you guys did this pve preview always glad to hear what you guys think.

[@Hyde472]

From a 5 for free events to a 6.5 for $15.... do I have to say more?

[@pokvirus5705]

NPC moments right here.

[@Hyde472]

@@pokvirus5705 NPC moments supporting it.

[@kimikoduras9559]

I'd say rating for PvE is like a 2/10 xD

[@cmlain2013]

Paused at 58m mark - I think Guru and Eva got a little tunnel visioned playing in such high rank.. Overwatch definitely has a pretty high learning curve. I’ve brought several friends on, some have stayed and most couldn’t commit strictly because of the curve. At a core level, roles play differently, all the heroes have different abilities, maps have advantages/weaknesses. OW is my favorite, and incredible game, but it is definitely hard to learn and requires a large time investment. Edit: I’ve played this game since inception as well. I’m not nearly as good as they are (low diamond currently). But to say OW’s learning curve isn’t bad is objectively wild.

[@thoet7270]

Its probably the hardest fps to learn rn, because there's so much to track, not to mention that there is no material to learn it. Tutorial sucks, hero mastery will probably be lackluster etc. You actively need outside sources to see how to play properly, which is not good for a game as complicated as ow

[@Nynzy]

@@thoet7270 Yeah the numbers do not even exist in-game. This is wild, since it means you have no idea how much your heals do, mit %, damage numbers, etc~

[@spacecowboy7193]

I talked some friends into playing OW2 with me. And I can assure you there is A TON to learn in this game already. There are so many strategies and techniques we take for granted outside of just learning a zillion hero interactions. To that end, that’s why this PvE is so important. Giving people a way to learn a few things without getting smoked by a Smurf doomfist over and over would be amazing.

[@karlach-s7h]

If all you did was play PVE then you ain't gonna know shit going into your first PVP match.

[@butchbottoms]

Yeah I'm a little disappointed that KarQ dismisses how difficult this game is for new player. A friend who's not generally a gamer joined our usual group (3+ yrs OW exp) in February and is STILL learning interactions, sound cues, and powers between the three roles.

[@Coachteach]

Absolutely, ow is insanely complicated. 35+ heroes, 5 abilities/guns each, 36 maps!! Multiple spawn points and health packs on each point and that's just how the game starts.... this game is insane, it needs pick bans to help it

[@spacecowboy7193]

@@karlach-s7h you’re gonna know what the buttons do and what the abilities are, a thing new players don’t know.

[@gmanz5]

SVB is so good at podcasting.

[@0NEH1TMAN]

Even when his guests are doing the bare minimum

[@Lolepicgamer]

I know there are people who dislike the more emotional or "doomer" type of guests, comments and takes, but this is the first time I legit fell asleep while watching a group up podcast. Almost the entire first ~45 mins is just... a whole lot of noise with barely any actual points in general.

[@pippo17173]

Repeat of stuff we heard but its really blizzard own damn fault for legit trying to hype and use these guys as ads for the game only to basically drop a nuke in the community back yard killing all their hype.

[@StriderYGO]

I didn't watch it yet, but I will guess that it has to do with the cast?

[@phatthrak]

I think a problem on this one particular is that the people are still under NDA as far as i understood it. A bit too early for a "debate" about the pve imho

[@tomkuiper8306]

I literally watch this podcast to go to sleep so we take those

[@DriplessShrimp]

It has to do with them all making money off ow content. Being completely honest about how bad the game is would hurt their money.

[@xteratogenx13]

We needed an OW Mass Effect. We're getting a shooting gallery.

[@ljb5163]

They keep saying “the devs are really nice and passionate”. No one disagrees with that. But that shouldn’t cloud your opinion of the state of the game. There is a lot of incompetence and mediocrity in the development of this game. Whether that’s the fault of the higher ups or not is kind of irrelevant to that being a fact.

[@SocialDesignFlaw]

59:47 The learning curve for this game is incredibly steep, make no mistake. Learning heroes (both playing as and against), plus game-modes (5 with Flashpoint coming next season), plus maps, is a lot of variables to keep in mind and that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of Team Compositions, Ability/Ult synergies etc. Simply "playing a hero" as this section of the podcast goes into, is not enough and never will be enough to learn the game. There needs to be a concentrated effort to produce overlays and UI updates that help guide players (togglable, for anyone who doesn't need them), as well as an update to the Hero Gallery with a Tutorial codex that lists important features about Game-modes and Heroes (Numbers, Objective descriptions, Game-mode rundowns, etc.) Overwatch needs an in-game instruction book new players can pour over at their leisure without trying to dig for clues and context while getting blasted from three different angles by three different heroes they're encountering for the first time. That isn't learning and isn't educational.

[@thoet7270]

No one wants to read an instruction booklet instead of playing a game. This could work only for very "factual" information, like dps, critical dps, hps, shield health, different parts of health, how damage reduction works and which heroes it applies to, different types of shooting etc. But for the game and characters themselves, they need to do courses with detailed explanations and scenarios where you can apply most of these. Personally, since the ow Devs seem to be very disconnected from the players, they could hire character specific specialists to design these courses or at least provide idea on what to do based also on difficult. Like, for example, an easy course for mercy would have simple game movement, a medium one would incorporate beam juggling and beam linger, and lastly a hard one would included super jump rezzes, tight corridor slingshots, ult prediction, valk battle mercy aim etc

[@SocialDesignFlaw]

This isn't an "either/or" scenario, it's just a codex in the Hero Gallery folks can investigate when they run into something that they can't explain. Especially in scenarios where too much is happening on screen and they miss crucial interactions. The codex would also cover "When can overtime be triggered" or "the payload heals you for this amount" or "capturing a point goes faster with x amount of heroes on it", which aren't explained in game. What you're talking about are what the Hero Mastery missions sound like. Why not do both? Give people learning options, but denying resources to new players because you think "No one wants to read, just play the game" is weird and the exact issue I had with what was being talked about in this episode.

[@thoet7270]

@@SocialDesignFlaw yeah I'd definitely want both

[@broad_cat]

Commenting about an hour in here. I usually love all the Group Up episodes I've seen. And traditionally I really value SVB's ability to mediate spicy takes from Samito, goofy business from Lemon, or thought provoking/level headed comments from Flats, Freedo, and all the guests. But this episode so far is some of the driest non-conversation I've seen. And every time SVB tries to drill down and make a point of something it just gets met with some version of "Don't be too hard on the devs". The comments about turnover rate, not being able to use ideas from other people/games, etc. are some of the laziest deflections I've seen in a while. No, we shouldn't crucify the devs, but is that really what anyone is saying here? Re: not taking ideas from other people/games. Sure, you shouldn't blatantly rip-off people. But the comment from Guru about seeing an idea and two years later remembering it and not being able to use it is such a cop out. Anyone good at their job looks at what other, successful people are doing, and makes a version of that for themselves. Plugging your ears for fear of a lawsuit is either a gross misunderstanding or a poor management tactic. I especially liked SVB calling out that first we thought PvP was neglected, now we think PvE is neglected. And the realization that both were grossly mismanaged and like was said in the ep "A period of lost time." I'm hoping there's more critical and engaging discussion on the last half because despite SVB's best attempts to draw blood from a stone, there is just nothing here in the entire first hour besides dud takes. @1:20:00 SVB's take on it being a mini-series I absolutely agree with. Miniseries definitely has a connotation of 3 or 4 half-hour to an hour long episodes. The Kiriko short being 2/3 of a 'miniseries' runtime is so disingenuous. And like SVB said, sure it technically is a series and is 'mini', but what does that mean if not the implied collective understanding of the term? Deceptive at best. Final thoughts after finishing: This whole ep is like justifying a relationship with an abusive spouse. "I can fix them. Sure, they might not care now, but when things are good they're *so* good! There's so much potential here!" Overall I agree there's just not much investment in the OW IP. Arcane slapped, some of the best animation in a show period, not even just for a video game show. OW could've had an Arcane. Could've had their PvE. Could've had so much momentum as a franchise given the interest they clearly have. Hardly anyone has this much pull, but they just didn't invest. There's just nothing new to say about the game at this point.

[@ironman1458]

Where was all the "not taking ideas from other games" when they were adding the battle pass. And when they turned the pve into a second battle pass

[@endless_del]

i stopped being very interested in pve years ago. i was still disappointed when the news about it getting essentially scrapped, but i moved on pretty quickly. i don't think there's much point in lamenting "they could have had this, they could have done that" because they don't and they didn't and we can't go back in time to slap sense into them. there is absolutely nothing they can do right now to "fix" their lost potential. and a lot of the people who are on the dev team currently had NOTHING to do with any of the decisions and directions that led to where overwatch is currently at so it really IS unfair to say "you wasted this IP's potential" because they actually had nothing to do with that. jeff kaplan, the director of overwatch at the time, and bobby kotick are the people who should be taking the heat. that's the point i think that's trying to be made. not only are you wasting your own time complaining about what could have been, you're unjustly putting the blame on people who didn't make the decisions that were wrong.

[@SlaineReigns]

"Don't be too hard on the devs" is such a ridiculous argument at this point tbh. Game's on the way down the drain and you're still thinking about the devs. They messed up big time, and the fact people keep saying that is such a huge cope. It's on the devs to actually give a sh* now and fix the game. Listen, if ya'll are in your feelings all the time, nothing will get done. Look at the facts here and what situation the game is at. EDIT: A short reply to the people who quoted me. So basically what you're telling me is it's sorely the higher ups' fault, especially Kotick cuz he calls the shots. The Devs are just following what Kotick says. Ok, Allow me to question you then. Why are you still playing the game if you truly believe that the devs has no say in this and it's sorely the higher ups' fault? Quit the game then, it's simple. Cuz if the devs have truly no say in it, then there's no path forward for the game. Game's just dead. The main reason nothing is changing is people keep playing and monetizing the game, AKA All of you. You want change? Leave the game and force their hand. I did, cuz i wont stand by for false advertising and broken promises that have happened time and time again. Im just sick and tired of it.

[@broad_cat]

@@endless_del It's just not about blame though. And deflecting criticism as if it is blame deflates any potential points. You're right in that looking back doesn't change the future. Making judgements on what was done doesn't inspire progress. But that progress comes from investment in people, time, and money. A miniseries like they describe doesn't show they've learned the lessons of the past. OW 2 has been nothing but mediocre, and there is absolutely no reason to suggest that they are working towards anything but.

[@broad_cat]

@@SlaineReigns I do think the devs do care and that they do probably have feelings attached. But its just not relevant at this point or ever really. The buck has to stop somewhere, and OW fans don't care who takes it, devs, game director, management, corp as a whole, just as long as someone somewhere owns the mistakes, communicates why they happened and how, and implements change. People aren't out for blood, they're out for a good game.

[@skiper7795]

About leaening the game. The hero mastery is coming and devs said that this will be like a safe enviroment to teach players the game. This will be a great tool for a new players to get the basic understanding of modes and characters. Also new players have to unlock more complicated heroses and modes over time so it is not overwhelming.

[@cuddle899]

As someone who plays with a lot of very very casual overwatch players. New game modes are a LOT to them. They still get confused and frustrated by Push, they get overwhelmed just by there being a new map much less a new game mode. Heck some of them miss 2CP just because they don’t like having to learn push. Also comparing this game’s new player experience to Apex and Valorant is still a bit strange to me because none of my casual friends play ANY other shooters. This is the Non FPS Player’s FPS. Just wanted to give my thoughts, amazing podcast as always ❤

[@daniilnoun8262]

I love this podcast but this particular episode... The beginning where they wouldn't talk about anything because they were constantly questioning if they can reveal a particular detail or not is beyond annoying, things like that can be quickly discussed BEFORE you go on a podcast, instead of 10 straight minutes of constant doubt. The amount of rather expected corporate bootlicking that ensued is also not exactly pleasant nor interesting. If OW creators want to keep on making excuses for Blizzard, then they really know nothing about their audience and Blizzard themselves. Sentiments like these are the reason people stopped taking either of those seriously and are making fun of OW, Blizzard and OW community in general nowadays. Not directed at SVB, but sometimes content makers should really stop and remind themselves that they're not an extension of Blizzard's PR team, unless of course getting their free OW coins and blizzard office tours and whatever is that much more important than their reputation.

[@SkyKnight742]

So from what the 3 guests are saying it looks like the OW team invited the exact wrong people for their preview right? They're top 500 (by definition not the average players), all 3 of them said they didn't care about PvE modes and they have high expectations (clearly not the target market these days). That's a puzzling move.

[@kkona3868]

Why is Ava taking through her phone man. Shows 0 care/respect about being on the podcast. And just poor audio quality

[@danielvecera4608]

The cat thing is distracting lol

[@lawoo1411]

It’s not that deep lmao

[@kkona3868]

@@lawoo1411 you dont think its disrespectful to svb?

[@ironman1458]

@@kkona3868 no lol... getting offended on someone elses behalf is so strange

[@PainxSorrow]

svb didnt demand respect he let her on anyway lmao blame him not her

[@wimzy3425]

SVB really has that it factor as host, Good discussions throughout.

[@wimzy3425]

KarQ prefers junkenstein wife revenge over the play test of the mission, not much else to say there😂

[@kingtswasey]

Hope your break is refreshing!

[@alexmiller4055]

Great show as always!

[@DjNaste]

If you are reading this: please stop giving Blizzard your money. Vote with your dollar, let them know what we think of their shenanigans.

[@advisorrook]

Not just with your wallet. Make their MAU (Monthly Active User) metric drop. That is what will really scare the investors and make the stock price drop.

[@doomknocker]

​@@advisorrook I found a really great way to drop their player count while having even more fun in game than ever ever before

[@pippo17173]

Already did a long time ago.

[@kkona3868]

This was the nail in the coffin for me. I tried to stay playing this game and defending it to my friends since this time last year during the beta and I’m just done man. Game is getting less and less fun, more and more annoying. And then PvE got cancelled for a mid story mode. That took them over 9 months to announce when they knew all along. Ranked is fun to climb because ranks mean nothing anymore. I’ve hit GM1 on every role top500 on dos and I know for a fact at best I’m a low GM player on tank specifically. And there’s no point for me to play. I’m not having fun.

[@Dylekt]

Yep I’m at that point too. Game is as buggy as DBD now, they completely ignore some heroes that desperately need attention, story looks mid, and the biggest deal about season 5 was stupid ass text with a couple voice lines as you progress the battle pass. Now they want more time to fix the half baked story mode, and this is the point where we should all be done waiting. Try Diablo dude, I never played one but I got hooked on it. Will stick with that game now unless it gets fumbled too. So sad watching this game die, have loved it since release.

[@kkona3868]

@@Dylekt yeah bro I might just have to try it everyone that plays it seems like they’ve been having a blast. And yeah with the some hero’s getting neglected thing that’s another gripe of mine. Like why is it that the three best dps hero’s in GM1/TOP500 are symmetra and torbjorn the and pharah lowest skill hero’s (pharah taking skill but she always has mercy pocket which allows her to make so many mistakes without being punished). I’m either moving on to Diablo or CSGO. Sad to finally quit my all time favorite game but they have ruined this IP.

[@dravenbluesummers]

As much as i love hearing from new people its three people who arent about to burn the bridge to blizzard by saying bad stuff about them so hearing credible thoughts about pve wont happen they will praise it no matter how bad it may be plus the true giveaway is how unexcited they were to discuss it .. says everything if it was good theyd be like oh my god this part was bonkers .. but their excitement was beyond mid karq is practically a blizzard employee at this point

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

Your comprehension skills are lacking. He literally gave it a 6.5/10 and if you actually watched you’d come to the conclusion that it was mid. You just expect them to shit on pve?

[@avatarnang5803]

May i just remind everyone that the HBO show "Chernobyl" is a miniseries, 5 episodes about an hour long each. 15 minutes over 3 5min "episodes" is not a miniseries, that's just a moderately long youtube animation. Also I'm so over hearing the "I'm happy we're getting something/anything" arguement. Like no, at this point that's not good enough from one of the biggest game companies in the world. There's literally hundreds of great games out there that you could be much happier playing and spending your time in than the Stockholm Syndrome Simulator that is Overwatch. This whole "hey at least I'm getting water now so lets be easier on the devs they're nice people" is ridiculous, like no you should've been getting water the entire time! If not then find another water source goddamn! You know who else are probably nice devs when you meet them? The Gollum game devs, yeah sure they're probably nice people, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't dunk on them for the shit product that they put out, it is what it is. And look, their whole dev team got axed, almost like the PvE that Overwatch promised.

[@ironman1458]

Yea its literally two shorts. Three shorts if we're being generous

[@Hiroth86]

I quit the game after they dropped the news about dropping the PvE. I always wanted Overwatch 2 to be like Destiny, that was the dream they were selling us. I've played the PvP part for years and got everything out of it that I wanted.

[@DecayedPony]

I would be more excited if it was just more than 3. Maybe in 2 years it'll be worth getting it all at once assuming it won't cost an arm and a leg at that point

[@IHJello]

Im so glad all 3 guests were mature enough to have a wholistic view towards the content provided after "four years"

[@midmoose]

1:01:05 i always felt like this is what the season pools were going to be for at the start ow2, pool content on seasons so there was never an overwhelming amount of map/modes to learn at one time. but people who play the game hated it so they stopped lol

[@rrc1183]

Don’t really agree with karq on this one, I 100% support him but I’m so sick of pvp at this point. PVE is sorely needed. I actually enjoy grinding, ranking up, etc., but can’t I just have one immersive overwatch gamemode where I don’t have to worry about my teammates and toxic people affecting my time?

[@johnnypt14]

I'd like to remind everyone that Arcane took 7 years to make. Granted, there are extra artistic factors with the use of hand painted look that add to that. But still takes work, passion and time. Are we even sure Blizzard could commit like that after fumbling like they have been

[@J.R.Swish1]

One question: why does it seem like everyone ignored the fact that they promised us a model of "One season, new map, another season, new hero" successively and we got Season 5, without any heroes, without any maps... just a silly little Arcade mode that halfway into the season is still nowhere to be seen? How many "Season 5's" with no content are we gonna have? 😂 The PvE is dead, the PvP is dead, the only thing keeping the game alive is the community's hopes and dreams.

[@VesperEm]

Considering we're getting two maps and a hero the season after I feel that's adequate compensation

[@eastwaters4082]

@@VesperEmwe shall see.

[@zc8673]

As long as Prop hunt is in the game for more than three days like the April fool's patch, like bro we barely even got to play that shit.

[@liathedoll]

One way they could “force” replay is specific store where you can only get currency by playing the pve. There could be sprays etc. Also I think they might have a lot of stuff but nothing that is ready to be shipped. Like several missions started but nothing even close to be finished.

[@Farmer_Rick_Ross]

Nah they will sell all the skins for $20 each on regular store

[@karlach-s7h]

Yeah that'll make more people Overwatch fans. Try and force them to buy the half ass PVE and play it over and over like they have no life. Blizzard is already in enough of a hole by only listening to autists but I'm sure they'll continue to do just that.

[@kellz9972]

Talking about breaking stuff in the spawn room is pretty indicative to the OW experience as a whole.

[@k00laidman0025]

They should have a game mode filter button on qp like cod. You hover over qp mode alt click and have check boxes with the game modes you want to play. I would only play control and push. I hate just defending on escort in qp

[@lucasevans5640]

havent heard that idea yet but i think that could be a good thing. it’s just quickplay after all, may as well let people tailor their own experience

[@worldsaway1002]

I take it Eva just woke up to do the podcast 😂

[@untapped8776]

I'm at such a loss as to why it is that we can't add Talent Trees to these missions. They seemed to have so much already done. At bare minimum, I think the version of the system they had back at Blizzcon 2019 was fine, perhaps even better now that the scope has been so drastically reduced. Just give us like 9 or so ability changes *just* for the heroes available in the mission. They don't even need to be that super complex. Tracer had something like her Blink damages enemies when she moves through them. It doesn't seem that difficult to implement for these smaller missions. We don't need 100 talents for EVERY hero, Blizzard. But please, for future missions, at least try and recycle some of that content and actually let us do different things with these heroes than the same things we've been doing for the past 8 years.

[@KhaiShinryu]

Great work on your end as always, SVB but I was not a fan of this episode. GURU gave very narrow-minded input. Of course this is coming from his own perspective but it just didn't seem like he cared to see things from another person's perspective. He even admits that he could be out of the loop in regards to community sentiment. As another person in the comments pointed out, I'm not exactly sure why Blizzard invited people who weren't interested in the PvE to test it. KarQ was ok aside from the numerous "ya know?" filler that didn't convey his point entirely, but that's just me being extremely picky about overuse of filler words in a conversation so not a primary concern regarding the topics. You had to pull teeth from Eva to get her to chime in 90% of the time and whenever you brought up valid criticism and especially the point of "we should not settle for mediocrity", she would respond with "well this is better than the last few years of Overwatch 1 so I'm just happy to get anything." This is the very definition of settling for mediocrity. Overall, I understand that they can't just be overly critical but this episode felt like a lot of tip toeing and copium with not much substance to further the conversation. Enjoy your break, Mr. SVB!

[@Vastspartan]

Typical streamers dont have the spine to speak up. At least Samito did even if it was complaining

[@Samuraithekid]

Man I wish the best for SVB but he just seems so disgruntled with OW2 which is crazy with how much more there is to talk about now than there was back then, but I feel his frustration because he is a hopeful person and they just keep getting dashed.

[@waynetec13]

1:37:26 I bought the Watchpoint. I bought the battle passes for seasons 1-4. I bought some currency to get a couple of skins. I spent money because I was still holding out for PvE, but when they announced the cancelation of what they promised, I stopped spending. I'm not going to pay for archives+ missions. I guess it's time to just move on from this game. I'm having plenty of fun with Diablo and indie games, anyway. Good opportunity to jump ship. I wish everyone who sticks around the absolute best. Thanks for the fun matches, and the memories.

[@olliehaha]

God guru is so annoying

[@mossup-]

I honestly think that they should have had people play it that was actually interested in PvE as well as people in the target audience, like me, I love A bit of PvE but has to be good and not A boring monotonous attempt of PvE, it doesnt sound like its going to be that good and zero replayability which is not good. it maybe something but its not good, I want it to be good. I have replayed Portal 1 over 40 times, thats A good replayable PvE, this OW PvE I will probably play once and leave, like I did with the Halloween, yes it was not good. What they dont realise is that they would make more money in the long run if they make A good replayable PvE, but they just seem to want to make A quick buck.

[@mossup-]

If Blizz can do it with WoW and other companies can do it then Blizz can do it with Overwatch instead of this lack luster effort.

[@mossup-]

The First time experience is also bad, it doesnt actually show how to play the game in any way, that is something that needs changing if they actually want it to be of any use, also the characters that you can play at the start, some are not the best hero's to have, like moira, when people join they just think they need to dps and they choose moira and then thats all you get in the low ranks.

[@botta88]

I think my biggest issue in the whole Overwatch saga is that they essentially abandoned the player base on OW1. They made all these claims of things coming in OW2 to try and revive the player base, but now keep walking things back or under delivering. And essentially all that has happened is we reverted back to the development cycle that was in the original OW1 only it's a little more formal now. I just don't think they are ever going to win back that distrust after the neglect of OW1 and false promises. People will play the game but I think they destroyed the chance of Overwatch ever being popular like it once was.

[@pippo17173]

The things the old player base want requires way more time and money which you know why they decided to abandon them. New players are the new suckers for spending on these skins.

[@DonCarmolo]

I would come back for the pve if it didn't cost $15. I can buy whole games with that kind of money, what are they smoking. The wow movie cost 160M and did 439, btw. I think it did really well in China.

[@MeowLesty]

Battlebits is 15 bucks, just saying.

[@ROBAKABIGPAPA]

We are so dissatisfied with Overwatch that we're reminiscing fondly of breakable environments in spawn rooms... Holy

[@faiz8840]

Guru just does NOT speak against blizzard it’s insane

[@Vastspartan]

A shill

[@Eli_Kennemer]

Really love SVB - Although I am not jealous of the job he has 😂 - But he does it perfectly; Voicing regular community sentiment when pros might be out of touch; Reminding casuals that pros ARE objectively correct in much of their observations; Reminding EVERYONE to not flame devs but still not hesitant to give guff to corpo scum. Love it ❤ Unfortunately I think it keeps coming back to the same phrase for Overwatch - 'All this time waiting' - They keep running out the clock on our goodwill, trying to convince us money is being spent on things WE want, and not what ACTIVISION wants.

[@sirnetflix7162]

Asking to give the benefit of the doubt at this point is pure copium

[@_Libosido]

I'm playing Paladins right now and its better game than OW2 by far, in many aspects. I'm kinda disapointed by argue "there is no other game than OW2" from content creators, no - it is, but you must throw away sentiment of OW, pull you head from your ass and look around. In most cases OW2 content creators are like people defending their good friend, right now steeling money and lying to others, because he was good guy, in previous 6 years. ... Also is tiring/ridiculous to hear over and over again "OW2 is better than OW1, because we have a new content". In the Czech republic we have the adage "The hunger, is the best cook." - meaning, if you are starving long enough, you do take any food, no matter of his quality, as the "best food" of your life, because any food is better than no food. In the case of OW2, the "food" is a new content. The fact people are accepting mediocre content and underperforming state of the game as better than OW for reason "its different/its new" is sad.

[@DrJayPlays]

Bit late to this but after hearing the point about New Players getting into OW, as someone whos played for years, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree that Overwatch is hard/lowkey fustrating game for a new player to get into and I think people like Guru is clouded in the fact he's played for years, gaming is his life and is unable to see separate his own experience for others shoes. Most games have variables you need to learn all at once. Overwatch pretty much has them all. Characters, maps, objectives, abilities, interactions... I could go on. And one grossly overlooked learning curve is AIM (unlike Apex Legends where I can learn a new character but use same weapoms, EVERY hero in OW shoots differently). But in OW if I don't learn other characters im lowkey throwing. There is a lot of complexity that is overlooked and you will get absolutely sh1t on for so long, which to most casual and new players, is not worth it to entice them.

[@ErikBPG]

I mean what's the point with throwing a new character into comp on day 1. No one can be moderately good at them and the first 2 werks give them time to tweak if they're horribly broken

[@Noctrimlol]

$15 for battle pass + PVE is fine. The WHOLE point is they split the bundle on purpose… so if I buy the BP and then decide to play PVE I have to spend $15 still it’s not just $5 more. The missions do NOT even seem worth $5 but they are like in bad faith trying to double dip the same extra $10 diff. “Well you can use it on next seasons BP!” Literally there is no way I would give this game a $10 loan for 3 months give me a Fucking break

[@ObeseWizard]

Overwatch lives and dies by the PvP. I can't see this new approach to the PvE panning out well, especially with the feedback that everyone gave in this episode. I was excited for some good PvE but I no longer care. But that's okay, as long as they STRONGLY support the PvP as a result.

[@Coachteach]

Crazy how out of touch KarQ was about a new player experience. This game will be impenetrable soon without some pick bans

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 05/07/23. Podcast links below! SVB will be taking a small break from streaming, but if you're enjoying this content, why not check out his TV & Movie breakdown channel The Soak (youtube.com/@TheSoak ) where he will be uploading more regularly The best way to support my content is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/preview-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@broad_cat]

Heads up the link for The Soak has an extra parenthesis that breaks the link. Might want to fix the template for next time!

[@KetchumUnderarock]

You recorded this on may 7th?

[@MotionCoMMotion]

the day and month could be flipped. Some people do that

[@GroupUp]

@@MotionCoMMotion If by some people you mean the entire world outside of the US, then yes, some people do this

[@MotionCoMMotion]

I will go whip myself now.

[@lone4896]

its funny that all the ideas they listed out is just "just add this, add that, add these, add those, add everything" if they can have any resources allocated to add anything, they would have continued with the true PVE development the truth is everything got canceled, they just scavenged the corpse of the previously half-developed PVE, and try to make a buck out of it, furthermore as of now they dont even have any plan of continuing the story development any further

[@mega17]

My friend and I played "co-op vs ai" for over a year before we seriously started playing QP regularly, let alone comp. There is a huge market for PvE. TF2 had Man-vs-Machine or whatever, and that was considered successful because you could earn loot. PvE in Overwatch **can** be successful too. It is a crime that Koticke is such a dick who deprived them of the focus and funding needed to make it come true. Diablo 4 got it, but Overwatch can't? We could have both if Activision wasn't such a greedy shit show.

[@Sahilow]

Is this easy mode?

[@justinwinterspear]

There's been summer games controversy? I haven't heard anything about that

[@Trocify225]

Yk it’s sad when you’re “excited” for anything “new” that’s a battered housewife mentality

[@TeaHauss]

I hope they take your feedback, it'd suck if it was one and done with no incentive

[@nikitabatyzhin7821]

"I am happy to just be getting content in comparison to 3 years ago when we didn't get anything" is a bad argument. Starving for years while they cook and then getting served crumbs is not ok. Why after so much dedication and loyalty to the franchise, this is all we get? This is one of the moments when it would have been better for it to die as a hero.

[@Vastspartan]

Its the "I'm glad Im getting paid" but I take abuse mentality

[@jorrellrichardson3181]

i think this discussion on pve is kinda a moot point. pve means player vs enviroment. thats a definition. campaigns are pve so are archives missions. starwatch is pvp with a bot. the discussion is more about missions vs campaign. we should have gotten a almost halo style campaign. instead we are getting random missions that might equal a campaign eventually if they stay permanently.

[@fuckyouyoutube7921]

Svb, love the discussion..tho i think next time invite domeone whos life doesnt depend on playing the game, like a genuine fan and player. Karq has some good insight about whats going on behind the scenes, idk eva and i dont feel like she brought anytging interesting to the table. You just notice the drop in interest when you talk about the series for instance, all 3 of them didnt really care about the lore of the game and the characters which is why ow2 is happening or was to happen. I wish you wpuld invite someone who isnf in GM and above.

[@zairvix]

I really feel the same svb, I want a reason to love Overwatch again but right now the pve and this genesis thing all give the same feeling of like...I guess it's something and so it's hard to complain but I want to complain because it's just not what it could be. And they just keep making stuff that's mediocre and my hearts not in it anymore

[@CriticalxMiss]

1:36:41 you cant buy it with in game currency. And the issue is that they want you to pay a full priced game for 12 missions of mediocre content

[@revostepify]

love this podcast, but this episode kinda feels like karq and svb are the only ones that care :/ were the other two just that disappointed in the gamemode?

[@k00laidman0025]

It's so stupid how the ow team says their going to start focusing on pvp. Then they say that they are going to work on the story missions for the next year. Communication is still the biggest problem and that is the devs fault

[@ninthfriend3347]

I'm not surprised with how PvE turned out after waiting four years for that. Mind you the team four we have now is so different than what we have before. Which is why PvE and you can say Overwatch 2 turns out the way it is. I used to be super interest in PvE because I was expecting to be another core of the game alongside PvP. We would have two core game modes that dedicates both casuals and competitive players. Unfortunately with how PvE turns out, I'm no longer interested in PvE anymore. I have other PvE games that I play, Destiny 2 and Diablo 4, and OW2 will remain my main PvP game because there's just no other games like OW. The universe and heroes are like the best part of the game. I like being connected with the heroes I love and it feels great playing as them. I am looking forward to season six. I think season five was great but it's overshadowed by the news of PvE and others. I'm in love with Tracer's mythic skin 💕

[@Kurama1732]

As a D2 player I love how you added it, being in only a single percentage better than OW state of the game and management care wise

[@Bluemansonic]

1:03:37 in the lower ranks on Console yes you do

[@WarlogicGaming]

"I don't want mediocrity for Overwatch." This right here is the core of all of OW's problems. Everything we receive is mediocre when it comes to one of the best games ever released. Why is it treated with such negligence? It makes no sense and leads to nothing but disappointment.

[@marcushooo]

this dude is super cocky. who is he? "this is Guru, i'm #1, yall know me"..? regarding complexities of the game- it has an extremely steep learning curve, especially having to memorize all the sound cues, gun sounds, ult voicelines, projectile speeds, abilities. does this guy actually think the game is simple compared to other FPSs?

[@harrisonfelice8160]

Who are the controversial people Eva was talking about with representing their country in World Cup?

[@mikeockslong4795]

she sells her body for money, dont take her word for it

[@TheLoneBuffalo]

Sad to see SVB so down on the game. I appreciate the perspective. I don’t get to play as much but always love these podcasts.

[@ryanhawkrider]

I would've been engaged if we got the original pve mode, not glorified archives missions. It's so clear the focus is on battle pass, cosmetics, limited time things. That's it, people pay out the ass for those and it's way less work so why not? It's just sucks cause they're not gonna have anything worth getting hype over anymore.

[@TheSupportWitch]

Because people are able to switch characters mid battle, it's super disorienting for new players to learn who does what. Also, it's insulting to mini-series to call Genisis one. Mini series are essentially full shows with 1 season. 6-8 hour long episodes. That's the expectation of the phrase Mini-Series and SVB is completely right to say it's deceptive and manipulative.

[@austinoswald8318]

Choccy milk in the A&W cup!

[@nobo3196]

Ain’t no way she leaves that cat up for 2 hours lol

[@RaviPillalamarri]

You're a good host. At some point in this everyone says they don't care about PVE and overwatch is a PVP game. So, what was the point of this?

[@liathedoll]

Nah in my ranked my teammates are the NPCs 🙃 not annoyed at all

[@florabtw]

can we get Aspen on the pod 🥺

[@Oliver.Pfahl.]

Engagement comment Also hope you'll treat yourself during your break!

[@user-cu4mh3fy8h]

Blizzard's business model is so clearly short term growth and no focus on sustainability. Quarterly growth at any cost rather then sustainable quality products.

[@MrBreakdownx]

I feel like overwatch content creators try to claim how hard the game is all the the time but it's really not. When the goal post is knowing what the character does it's not that bad. Blizzard just needs the implement a proper hero info page. Also svb saying all of them are complicated. Really?

[@IHJello]

rating scale should ALWAYS BE OUT OF 5. Anything bigger is just excuse for wiggle room. A 6.5 on 5 point would be 3.25.. which is a lame score which is why out of 5 will always be the best. Ill even allow halves in the 5 point scale if you must, but try to be brave in your rating and go for a solid number 0-5

[@TheARESxGOD]

What even was this lol ? 3 people trying to defend a shitshow and SVB trying his best haha.

[@lawoo1411]

This is the first time in like the last 12 podcasts ( besides the pride one ) I’ve been able to finish listening to the whole thing and actually enjoy it, hope we get more like this one 💕💕💕

[@TheDevos1]

I feel like I’m one of the few who plays PvP all the time and is immensely in lore and am ok with the pve just being a story mode to push the story forward….like sure it’s nice to have a great pve that has a bunch of crazy mechanics and new stuff that pulls you in but like Overwatch ALREADY pulls me in. Having the story stuff is just a great add for me 😩

[@TheDevos1]

Like…I don’t NEED a new game. I’m ok with kind of rearranging the current game assets around to create something cute and fun for the girls 😅

[@ironman1458]

Id be okay with that too if they didnt just kill the game slowly over the last 5 years to make this pve anyway lol. I think most people would prefer if they just worked on the PvP all this time instead of just rereleasing the same game with worse monetization

[@actionmarco8556]

I get that point, and it's not wrong, but as @ironman1458 above me said, this shit took 4 years in which PvP was being neglected. That is what stings. So yeah, I would absolutely agree with your take if 1. they hadn't fucked up OW1 PVP and 2. it didn't cost an extra 15 usd for 3 archives+ missions. The approach of using PvE mainly to advance the lore is fine, I agree.

[@TheDevos1]

@@actionmarco8556sorry I think you guys got me wrong. I am speaking on what we have NOW not in what we didn’t get. Like it’s really shitty that that stuff happened but from my perspective on what they are doing now, I’d rather have this route than having them try and make something crazy and have it take forever again.

[@Vastspartan]

The point of Overwatch 2 was the PVE. They dropped the ball immensely

[@Karolien]

I never blame the people we spend all these hours to try to make something .The ultimate decision is not by them. I do find it sad that the way Blizzard comes with new things feels so unpolished. Blizzard was never a company that came with new things often. They always took the time to come with something new. But now they just take a lot of time and come with Beta material. They are not asking for feedback anymore with the test servers anymore. They just dumb new heroes/ campaign on us and then are sometimes a bit insulted when the community points out obvious feedback that probably could be prevented if they would ask more often for feedback before they drop it to everyone. Like you see here, if you would do this more often, they can get out of the box idea's that can maybe be a success. ATM the feedback mentality at Blizzard is almost non-existing and the small amount of feedback there is is only between Blizzard itself and its therefore way to narrow and misses its point.

[@jorrellrichardson3181]

whoever would be making the overwatch show woulsnt be the same as the game development team. and better than nothing is literally the lowest bar in existence. they need a new marketing team and some real effort

[@CriticalxMiss]

Its just wild to me how poorly development went when this is what we are getting. And then add on top of that, they still want to charge us 60 dollars for 12 missions vs what we were going to get... but they still want to take x amount of years to drip fees us the content Like, just take that time off and actually deliver what you promised.

[@ameliaxox8788]

“No one plays Overwatch for the PvE” no shit it’s not out

[@solomonterrell3051]

Ive watched every Group up podcast so far, and like 95% of everything anyone on this podcast has said so far has been reasonable besides a handful of exceptions, like when unsaltedsalt said roadhog had the "fairest one shot in the game". Bc of this i want to call these mfers out on this episode bc something just aint adding up So youre telling me Eva and KarQ gave the old OW1 archive events that were FREE*, A 5 out of 10, but this $15 dogshit that is literally not even what was promised a 6.5???? Nah the deflection and bs in this episode was unreal. 💀💀 If there was something i missed that could make the opinions* on this podcast make sense, plz lmk. But idk how you could rate this shit this highly without* being a shill 😂. But im not joking if you seriously know please let me know and timestamp it. If you agree with me then yea what the fuck r these podcast guests smoking???😂

[@Vrailik]

They had their expenses paid for them to fly out there, play the PvE early, and give feedback in a free lunch. Wtf did you expect, they could've shilled way harder and said it was a masterpiece. They didn't say that. They were just honest while sugar coating it.

[@solomonterrell3051]

​@@VrailikThats fair.

[@sweetpixiesmile]

As a OW1 day zero trash sym player, all I hear are excuses being made of Blizzard's bad decisions. WHO CARES if the devs have passion, WHO CARES if there was turnover. We play what they put out and that's what we're evaluating, and what they have now.... it neither caters to the PvP hardcore or the PvE hopefuls. Pick a LANE! They should focus on making a great competitive PvP experience instead of stringing the PvE hopefuls along for a game that will never reward them. If they would just answer the hard questions honestly, without any PR bullcrap, I think everyone can move on: - Why did all those senior devs leave, including the main story writer AND his replacement? - What did they do those 4 years? give us an itemized list. - Why didn't they split a new team to handle the scoping, the redlines, the full gameplay design? Teams of less than 20 have done a better job. - Why can't they have a small team keep working on feeling out the revitalized Project Titan? They've obviously made a ton of assets and engine improvements Instead they pull in a bunch of PvP hardcores to blow smoke up our asses.

[@abduktedtemplar]

Alien Zarya needs a re-release! Nobody cares about the problematic gamer it was previously attached too, just make it available again already!

[@Kurama1732]

To the point of comparing Bungie to Activision Blizzard while talking about the TV show, Bungie also has MAJOR management issues and straight up said they like it when the player base hates the shit out of the game and the experience because it means they still care, yet offer no solutions. There is are community jokes about how Bungie is a small indie dev and not worth 3 billion under Sony since the game is plagued with cheaters poor balance and only drip fed shallow content thats meadnt to be removed, and how the in game real money store is the only thing that works properly. Their only priority is Marathon currently and nickle and diming an objectively garbage game since the end of the story is half a year away and people are staying for the end of a 10 year story. Asking Bungie for a TV show is like asking for Jupiter, they havent been able to take care of the 1 game they have out since 2019 other than 1 expansion with 8 hours of gameplay