The REAL cost of owning a Cirrus Vision Jet

[@cirruscapo]

Must let you know what my wife just said as I watched this video. "Oh, I like him, is he back flying yet?" I wasn't aware that she has been watching these videos over my shoulders, and she was concerned about you being able to get back to flying. She's such a great person and I am so blessed. Just thought you might like to know that she, and I have been routing for you to get back behind the yoke, so to speak... Also, kinda strange seeing an actual trim wheel...

[@lepetitprincejets]

Thanks Stephan. But there are other expenses to consider like hangar, depreciation and taxes (in Cal you pay prop taxes, 1% of plane value each year). Insurance is more like 30K min for a 2.5M hull and can go way higher for new pilots or brand new planes. Finally JetStream for is 100K for 150 hrs of flight (~180 Hobbs). But for 200 hrs JetStream is way more. There is also loan costs as pretty much nobody who flies any kind of jet actually buy their plane outright. At the end 2K/hr is a minimum 😢

[@Reloadeez]

Your numbers are right. They like to leave out depreciation, personal property taxes, and underestimate average fuel price. A pilot owned and flown 2023 SF50 is 320k-360k fixed cost per year depending on location, and roughly 285k variable at 300 hours per year. So 2k-2.1k/hr.

[@mu2995]

Stef, great fun video. Also the second. Enjoy you content for years a private pilot. The Cirrus Jet is a nice aircraft, but it has many limitations. You talk about the cost and it's not cheap to operate any jet or turbine aircraft. What many forget in all the calculations is the cost per nautical miles, this is more important than cost per hour. And than quickly the Cirrus Jet goes on the more cost side in comparison to a Phenom 100 or Cessna Mustang. Cost per nautical mile is the factor we all consider for any aircraft. Also of course the time it takes to get from A to B, the comfort for example a Phenom has a potty, 6 seats a lot of space for bags and higher payload. Financing cost is a big part of the cost calculation and it's a fixed cost, 3M at 5% a year is 150,000.... Discussions about fuel costs or landing fees etc are not the real cost drivers for a jet or turbine. Again Steve, love your content! All the best from stormy Florida.

[@Skywayman22]

How many years of EYZ flying would you get for the cost of a year of Jetstream? 😂

[@notmenotme614]

If you book far enough ahead, you can fly a similar route to this video… from London Heathrow to Munich Airport Franz Josef Strauss for £76.49 with Lufthansa. So you could fly with Lufthansa 2,965 times for the same price as 200 hours in the Cirrus Vision Jet

[@rdawgz866]

That is a ridiculous comparison, people who fly private are paying for convenience not value. Why buy a Ferrari if you can just drive a Camry?​@@notmenotme614

[@COO415]

​@@notmenotme614 And not to mention the added layers of security and commercial level of maintenance for the jets. Of course, the inconvenience of check-in, security gates etc, ain't that bad for the money one saves. Anyway, my 2¢😊

[@LLIBS]

@@notmenotme614

[@sharex21]

Depreciation should be added to the costs as well.

[@Visionjetpilot]

We just renewed our JetStream for another year and 150hrs for $95,900USD.

[@rickdc3]

That is insane. I just completed the 4 year on my 2008 Eclipse (which is a better, faster, more efficient jet than the Vision in every way) and it was $42k. Next year it will cost under $5k. The 2 year after that will cost about $10k. Engine program costs $180/hr per engine and I only pay for actual hours flown.

[@marcanthonyfranz]

You guys have the best jobs in the world.

[@markjones2781]

Glorious episode Stefan!

[@cappuccino_please]

Echelon is in the UK … maybe I overheard the beginning, but I somehow thought you fly from Sydney to Germany until I saw the map, lol. So I hope you did go to Deutsches Museum in Munich for the aeronautics and astronautics exhibition? If not, I can recommend for the future!

[@robvolkk]

Love this, but you’re leaving out some serious costs in your analysis. What about interest, depreciation, and hanger costs? Are engine overhauls included in the maintenance program?

[@notmenotme614]

Hangar fees would be the biggest one

[@Jimmer-Space88]

Yes, JetStream includes TAP BLUE engine program for Williams

[@KimKolds]

Very nice and informative video. I have been considering buying one myself and I do live in Europe. It's just the range, because I mostly fly between Denmark and Cyprus which would require a fuel stop in Greece. Other than that it is really a cool little airplane.

[@dashingstar8841]

Are you a millionaire?

[@Leadballooner]

I fly this every week in MSFS 2020! 😂

[@mattfromuknfrance]

Very accessible and well put together piece. Thank-you

[@LaResistenciaEDC]

Very interesting thank you. I was actually womdering myself.

[@JoshGoesSlow]

You excel at Excel Stefan 🤣

[@StefanDrury]

Love me a good spreadsheet, thanks Josh

[@AsherWeinstein-m7n]

@@StefanDruryYou coming to MB when Matt hall does the display ? Gonna be sick

[@Jimmer-Space88]

Good information Stefan. Currently operating several turbine aircraft, we looked at the Vision SF50 G2+ as a potential replacement for an aging TBM…and we keep looking. No compelling “negative” complaints about the aircraft, however, EVERYTHING IS WRONG with the JetStream pricing. On average, JetStream is $630 - $700 per hour depending on the package and for those with a mixture of short and medium haul missions, this is completely cost prohibitive. We’ve looked into purchasing an SG50 G2+ aircraft (used) and omitting the JetStream due to our relationships with Cirrus trained A&P’s and have learned there is no guarantee Cirrus would sell us needed parts without JetStream. What…we might not be able to get parts on a self-maintained aircraft??? With the views on aircraft ownership changing in the late post-Covid era, we’re not the only ones balking at JetStream pricing. With an average of 8-6 G2+ normally for sale on Controller, there are currently a whopping 19 being offered. Guess what, almost all of these have near expiring JetStream programs - in other words the owners are timing the sale to avoid renewal of what is arguably an overpriced compulsory cost-to-own program and, if all you’re flying is 100 hours per year - not only am I going to question pilot proficiency with the aircraft, the total annual cost to operate with a low divisible of hours is an eye opener that just doesn’t make sense. And, if you’re a high time flight operation like we are, the cost per hour is very discouraging. The ideal beneficiary is an operator at 200 hours per year - on either side of that number of hours are very questionable cost benefits. So for now…NO THANKS…until we can better manage self-maintenance, the SF50 G2+ can we had our eye on can sit with the other “growing list” on Controller!

[@yacahumax1431]

So beautiful aircraft.

[@spiro5327]

Would love to go flying in this, and as you say, not as costly as many may think but obviously still alot of money. Thanks Stef

[@peterwaugh9416]

Biggin Hill to Augsburg about 850km so Moorabbin to Newcastle. Somehow to first pair sound so much better.

[@MrBigdan90]

The engine mounted on the top of the aircraft allows him to land in dirt or grass??

[@PilotFlo]

I don't know the hourly cost of the SR22, but I know that they charge around 450 € (500 US$) per hour. So considering that you're a lot faster in a Jet, 1000$/hour is not that bad (in the realm of aviation costs, of course)

[@Fastvoice]

I guess the calculation here is Australian dollars.

[@anomalousresult]

​@@Fastvoice his calculations were usd, or at least the fuel was

[@dontbescaredhomie3137]

If you're smart you're chartering out the plane for the time you're not using it, which would bring down your personal cost a lot.

[@Fastvoice]

@@dontbescaredhomie3137 OTOH you would have additional costs for founding and maintaining a business, special license and insurance etc..

[@dontbescaredhomie3137]

@@Fastvoice AFAIK (Accidentally stumled on it a while back) there is a little boom in private jet rentals where the company is just the intermediate and provides the customer base etc (i.e. google Stanford Flying Club rental). they don't mention the insurance however, which seems to be an owner cost, but there are additional benefits so it seems in certain states like tax deductability of maintenance cost on income. So no need to run a business, works kinda the same as sales costs tho. In my country (Netherlands) you can deduct costs to acquire income. e.g. costs for renting out your house or part of your house such as laundry and cleaning services could be deductables in income tax. Seems some states such as California provide such an opportunity. Again, not sure how this is offset by insurance costs, but I'm guessing in the end the math will be in your favor.

[@marsgal42]

On paper you could fly this with a PPL and a type rating. In practice you'd want more: an instrument rating to access the plane's performance, and a CPL (at least) to make the insurance company happy. I sat in the cockpit of one of these machines at AeroExpo 2023 after a nice chat with Philippe. I see the attraction. My bank account doesn't, alas...

[@lelandjeger3129]

So you said you will come back to the subject of redundancy in a sec. Did I miss it, or is the parachute part the redundancy?

[@PetraKann]

Good one Stephan! 👍

[@StefanDrury]

Thanks! 👍

[@AviationLucas]

Hi, I Love watching your videos and I'm an aspiring private pilot now I have had numerous brain surgeries and I know you've had one as well what are the CAA/FAA or Australian equivalent like with people who have had brain surgeries. Loved this video by the way keep up your good work and hopefully soon you will build up a big enough fan base for the cirrus vision jet!!

[@The_Prince770]

Good luck with your ppl!

[@GolfonFlying]

Stef, really interesting video. Well done!

[@cmilburn26]

I am quite confident the air vents are identical to those in my Ford F150😂

[@Mixturerich]

As distance per hour flown is different for each aircraft, wouldn’t it make more sense to work this out per mile rather than per hour? Then you have a comparable.

[@aleksjudd2124]

It doesnt matter how far the plane flies for maintanance. Its just the time it has flown that counts.

[@carlwilson1917]

Wish I had a few spare millions of dollars. Would love to fly in the Vision Jet.

[@pete9364]

Then if you divide by 6, is $150/hr per person (pilot included). Less than a C150 in YMMB

[@PitoVH]

People who buy this stuff don’t worry about prices!!! 💯🗣️

[@jarrodt5786]

Was this just Stef trying to justify to the boss 😂 if we fly the vision jet for 200 hrs it would only cost x amount 😂. Good simple explanations on the costs 👍

[@StefanDrury]

Now I have a video I can refer her to in case of emergency!

[@jarrodt5786]

@@StefanDrury exactly 👍 🤣

[@reeces8173]

Excellent video Stefan

[@BrynPrice]

Gret content as always Stef. I think they make a lot of sense in Europe and US; not so much in Australia. But hey, if had the spare cash, damn straight i'd want one.... not sure i could keep the #team4blade then.... maybe #teamJet?

[@StefanDrury]

TeamJet > Team4Blade of course! Thanks Bryn.

[@iantaylor052]

I'd take an M600 or a TBM over a vision jet. Better peformance, better support, more airfields available with shorter runways etc. etc. Vision Jet is a nice aircraft but struggles on performance compared to the competition.

[@GowthamNatarajanAI]

Vision is more spacious and better support in US

[@rdawgz866]

I was literally about to type the same thing. All those other planes are little tiny tubes. The vision jet has by far the most spacious cabin and large windows. Passangers have way more confidence in a jet, and prices should only be compared new to new. The PC 12 is a 10million dollar plane in a different class​@@GowthamNatarajanAI

[@luisoliveira601]

Stef, u've been dating this aircraft since ever! Just do it man! Buy the frikin' thing! xD and make you around the World trip like a BOSS!

[@SWR112]

I’m sitting here without your spare 2-3 million too and still thinking that’s not too bad running costs 😂 lovely plane.

[@copperfield3629]

By the way - while you're stooging around at Biggin Hill, have you ever dropped by the Biggin Hill Heritage Hanger? Would love to see you do a video on that, if you could make it happen sometime...

[@ShowMeWhatINeedToKnow]

What a bargain! I think I'll buy two of them.

[@nibzee]

A mate with a SR-22 had signed up when the Vision Jet was first launched to buy one so that he could fly a lot between Brisbane and Melbourne, plus a bucket load of other places. He had crunched the numbers for me for a SR-22 which could have made a lot of sense, but it was when he showed me the numbers for the Vision Jet that I could see why it would be so good for him. Unfortunately cancer got hold of him and he couldnt take delivery of it. I fell in love with his SR-22 as it was a great plane in so many ways, but the thing I loved in it is the "Jesus handle" if things really go bad. It is so refreshing to have it there, but you hope that you dont need it, but as a lot of my light aircraft flying was in Tasmania, I would have loved it then.

[@foxiedogitchypaws7141]

Anytime someone needs a passenger to hang out in the plane, I will be glad to help out. 😁🛩️ That new jet smell never gets old.

[@downunderdave5417]

Thanks

[@emcincosflyingadventures5031]

How come you didn't include the 'real world costs' of the trip you did in the video? Fuel, landing fees, parking, nav fees etc.

[@jorgegerleinotalora327]

Would you use the Cirrus Jet to fly over sea? Like Panama to Miami?

[@GreatDataVideos]

If safety is your #1 priority, the Vision Jet is a great choice. If not, you may want to look elsewhere.

[@HippoBig]

hi Stefan, are you going to COPA in P.Macquarie?

[@rickdc3]

That is insane. I just completed the 4 year on my 2008 Eclipse (which is a better, faster, more efficient jet than the Vision in every way) and it was $42k. Next year it will cost under $5k. The 2 year after that will cost about $10k. Engine program costs $180/hr per engine and I only pay for actual hours flown. I have no idea why people pay twice as much to buy a jet that is slower, flies 10,000 lower, burns more fuel per mile, costs WAY more to maintain, and will be totaled under a parachute if you lose the engine. Getting a multi-engine rating does not take that long.

[@kallyomega8925]

Most impressive thing was the spreadsheet skills

[@SomeRandomPerson]

@3:50 "Rudervator" ... not an Elevon? I'd heard it called that in other places.

[@Lewis_Bree]

2 different things Ruddervator - Rudder + Elevator Elevon - Elevator + Aileron (probably best known example is the Concorde, if you look up pictures you'll see there is no horizontal stabiliser for the Elevator) So both combine two control surfaces, just different ones

[@IndaloMan]

1990s Biggin Hill memories of Bernie Ecclestones F1 Bae 146s #goodolddays

[@pilotpeego1820]

The Vision jet is a great entry level jet.

[@staLkerhu]

I know it probably is, and this is how it should be treated, but saying something is "entry level" while it costs more than 2 mill USD is still weird for my average eastern european head. 🤯

[@AceNinja2112]

How does the Cirrus Vision Jet manage with the thrust not being inline with the horizontal axis? How does it cope with that nose down moment arm when the thrust is increased?

[@johnfitzpatrick2469]

G,day Stefan from Sydney. Having the jet engine between the 'ruddervators.' Is there authority of the empenage from jet thrust or mainly airflow flying? E.g taxi using differential braking? 🌏🇦🇺

[@EuroAviators]

As always, a very enjoyable video blog! 🙂 Looking at the prices and specs of the Vision Jet, I would definitely prefer a PC-12 to operate here in Europe, which is more versatile for all kinds of missions. But since it's all way over budget, flying smaller SEPs for now is good enough. You don't have to hide for a nice SR22! 😎

[@ludiment]

I wish planes & cost of ownership of them were cheaper

[@cihangarros]

How did you cross atlantic i couldnt understand

[@cryptoslacker-464]

Perfect jet for me as i would need a toilet for anything over 3 hrs trips 🙃 I will need Bitcoin to really fly up this bull cycle though , up to the moon 🤔 😅

[@Skippers.86]

Have a look at the Hondajet then. It can be ordered with a toilet.

[@impulseaviation253]

At this cost my wish of seeing VH-EYZ on one may just be a wishful dream

[@StefanDrury]

Never say never, I just need to make a LOT more KZbin videos... :)

[@dsdsdsdsdsds3139]

awesome!

[@capchuckpriceutyoub]

Stefan, nice content as usual. Disagree on the turboprop comments. First, the parachute. Turbines rarely fail, unlike pistons. Parachutes are essentially irrelevant. Best feature Garmin has released is Smart Glide to address engine failure. But in defense of turboprops, in this size of aircraft, a propeller is the most efficient method of propulsion. The goal is to move the most air possible, that’s what a prop does. A turboprop is just as fast as the Vision Jet, or faster. It can land or shorter runways, and it can take off on shorter runways. If you are at a high and hot airport (e.g., Telluride, CO), you might be stuck until nighttime to be able to depart in a Vision Jet, while a TBM could depart on the highest/hottest day from the same location. All because of the prop. When I was evaluating a purchase, I considered Citation Bravo, HondaJet, Vision Jet, and TBM. When we called Cirrus to demo the Vision Jet, the regional sales manager said “If you’re considering the TBM, there’s no point in demoing the Vision Jet. You won’t like it.” ‘Nuff said.

[@palmhoej]

If you get payed by Cirrus you take your 20% error margin and convert that to 0.8, but all other normal people would convert that to 1.2, the error should always reflect worst case. And just like a cars, deprecation of value can't be left out, especially not if your are comparing two planes with substantial different prices.

[@CardiffHomeMade]

Should you be known as a promotor for Echelon Air or Cirrus?

[@StefanDrury]

Considering neither have ever paid me a penny I'd say I'm a promoter of aviation.

[@CardiffHomeMade]

@@StefanDrury understood and your content is great. How much did it set you back to get on that repo flight?

[@gavinsullivan9015]

Even at 4 hours a week it’s 4 grand a week to run 😮 - how much to charter a jet for a 2 hour trip into Europe?

[@waynesilva3129]

You couldn’t give me a cirrus over the TDM 960. Try to put a couple bicycles in the cirrus compared to the TPM with the huge rear door and a pilot door.. I think the cirrus is more of an ego thing for people to say that they own their own jet .

[@Ticklestein]

This should be compared to the HondaJet

[@icekeyboard]

I wonder your insurance price. Doesnt seem legit for a 3M hull cost. Or you just get for the liability. And you didnt calculate the type rating cost every year.

[@Tanax13]

It's insane to me how expensive aircrafts are still. You can buy a new car for $40.000. Granted, an aircraft is more complex, but $3M + $162.000 per year at least, more complex? Just utterly crazy that there's not been more progress here to bring cost down.

[@darbyohara]

Regulation and government intrusion has stopped development. Watch over the next 10-15 years how drone style helicars and aircraft develop. If the government doesn’t fuck it up, in 20-25 years each upper middle class family and above will be able to afford one

[@fjordkingcarpetupholstery3102]

buying the jet or custom yacht is the easy part,

[@samdovakin2977]

why would someone get this over the Honda jets ?

[@FlyingDarkLord]

I think for the money I’d rather go for a turbo prop 🤔…like I’d ever be able to afford either! 😂

[@garymyers6638]

If any of those costs bother you, planes, boats and dancing horses are not for you

[@mohamedadelbenhamouda6528]

The cost per hour is insanely high for such a slow jet... Sorry but I prefer a turboprop prop that is maybe a little bit slower but with reasonable hourly operating cost.

[@Fastvoice]

I guess it's Australian dollars which are about 30% cheaper than US$.

[@darbyohara]

What’s the cost per hour difference?

[@CarlMims]

You might want to check how the Jetstream service is actually sold. I believe you buy a specified # of hours per year... and I think you can go out to 3-5 years... If you don't use those hours... you lose the unused hours for that year... if you come up short you can renegotiate, The more you buy the cheaper per hour... but off course more per period cost. This channels videos explains it www.youtube.com/@DonAv8 in one of his many videos. I have seen others where the cost of the AirCond compressor was like $36,000. So not sure you want to take your chances without the Jetstream. Bottom line is it cost a bunch per mile to own and operate. Also have to consider hanger cost.. and a few other things. Nothing cheap about flying. But I agree with you nice plane and easy to operate... has many advantage. BTW you channel is great!

[@copperfield3629]

Are you on commission for these guys, Stef? 😆 I'd offer to bankroll you for your Cirrus Jet, but I just checked my bank balance and - yeah nahhh... Sorry! 😥

[@Garythefireman66]

I need to hit the lottery 😂

[@imik3y]

11:17 This has happened twice and the jet isn’t that old. Not a great sales pitch.

[@rolacook222]

People with lots of money don’t care about the cost of the plane, fuel, maintenance, insurance or anything else, they just want convenience & speed!

[@sugershakify]

If you have to ask ....

[@windhover294]

I mean, if you have to ask....

[@jasonswift7098]

You're an Australian why use US dollars and gallons use metric AUD and litres.

[@Juhujalp]

Living in Europe ✅ Having a few mil to spare ❌ Dang it...

[@TheMurrblake]

Yup- if you have to ask how much then you can’t afford it

[@Howrider65]

I tried to sell my wife for 3 million but no takers. Damn no jet.

[@jeffryglenn7024]

Lease...

[@peterwest3204]

here is the bottom line, to own a jet, you need a monthly income of $100,000. anything less than that, you should get a prop plane.

[@darbyohara]

So basically a net worth of 20m where you generate 1-1.5m annually in interest

[@stefanogrillo6040]

I dont think so🤣

[@JDtheBushwalker]

First... yay! 😂

[@StefanDrury]

Very quick, thanks!

[@JDtheBushwalker]

@@StefanDrury childish games for adult children 🤣🤣 Interesting content... I couldn't even dream of owning one, but I enjoyed it nonetheless

[@db7059]

No flight lessons of becoming first

[@richarddesimone960]

When you have 3 million just to burn . Not sure the rest of the expenses matter to you at that point. If you own this jet money better not be a problem 😂

[@Lachie001]

First

[@StefanDrury]

Welcome!

[@DanFrederiksen]

Vision jet actually came out of the 2000 nasa GAP project to innovate the archaic GA fleet with light low cost jets, which independently is what I have been suggesting years later. One of the demonstrator planes developed was actually called V-Jet II and Cirrus apparently adapted the name. Eclipse also had a 400 model that looked very similar to vision jet. But the program was a significant failure in no small part because of Williams who was supposed to develop the smaller engine and just failed to do so despite getting 34million dollars to do it. Nasa is also to blame for lacking the insight to see they were all doing it wrong and for lack of follow through. Today all we have is even more expensive jets than then. It's a stunning fact that despite not actually being light, The Eclipse 500 twin jet has better fuel economy than the much smaller and slower Piper M700 and TBM940. That fact should get all turboprops seized and destroyed and any mention of turboprops should be classified as thought crimes :) Indeed it matches Baron piston twin for fuel economy despite going twice the speed. Which means all piston twins should be revoked and crushed with extreme prejudice. Eclipse is a 2.7ton MTOW bird. The interesting gap is that it could easily be less than half that weight. If for the sake of argument that would halve the fuel consumption as well then it would match or beat your SR22 in fuel economy despite going twice as fast. And even better if it slowed down to say visionjet speed. Notice how I worked in the subtle dig of the grossly overpriced Cirrus blimp :) Contrary to the VERY comfortable engine pricing from Williams and P&W, a jet engine is actually quite simple and inexpensive to make if done right and it becomes comically so if the plane is an actually light jet ALJ. The turbine and compressor wheels in the Eclipse jet engines are little bigger than a compact disc. You could palm them. Well known non exotic alloys. The main fan is 14 inches or 35cm. Little bigger than a sheet of paper. Is that really a million dollars? and 600k$ to service it. Or is that an enormous opportunity for disruption. A jet engine for a 4 seater could be cheaper than a Rotax. Imagine that.

[@rodsilva80]

TBM is much better, faster, more cargo, shorter runways etc.

[@neuralwarp]

"Scheduled" is pronounced [ SHED•yuld ].

[@exiletsj2570]

It’s slow and looks like a bottom feeding fish.

[@spoddie]

Too much talking, not enough flying.