The Real Reason Pokemon Sued Palworld

[@knowledgehusk]

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[@jessetorres8738]

Digimon > Pokemon.

[@chickenwings6172]

Kid they were not sued they have not even gone to court yet. They are attempting to be sued.

[@akamatt67]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you. Nintendo went after Palword, because they were incredibly successful and that they are now working with Sony to expand it into a franchise.

[@yasunakaikumi]

Nintendo : I WILL SUE YOU!!!! Pocketpair : eh, for what exactly? Nintendo : I DONT KNOW YET BUT WAIT TILL YOU SEE!!! ♪Pedro Pedro Pedro Pe♪

[@outlawstar2090]

@knowledgehusk yeah this lawsuit is very dumb and on top of that pocketpair started develop the palworld in 2016 way before pokemon Arceus in 2018. This means palworld had their legal patent rights year's ahead before the release. And on top of that the game was meant to be released in 2021 but they postponed to use a different engine from unity to unreal engine before release the game in 2024 which they had everything in development already way before pokemon got their patent right. This lawsuit is not going to be great for Nintendo. They failed to get craftopia because they couldn't do anything to get them and now this. But we shall see later on

[@jomomma900]

Game mechanics should not be able to be patented. The Nemesis system is prime example. God, video games used to just be fun, I miss that.

[@Zalman1337]

It's the law. Nobody should hate on Nintendo for defending themselves when another game blatantly and illegally rips them off.

[@m0j026]

I mean yeah, video games were probably more fun when you were 12

[@bearistotle2820]

​@@Zalman1337Literally every game in existence uses mechanics from other games.

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

@@Zalman1337 "It's the law" isn't a reason, it's an excuse. In reality, (software) patents has repressed way more genuine invention than encouraging it. See: Amazon's patent on one-click buy button.

[@weamibrahim2146]

The nemesis system is actually what i immediately thought of. I feel like its a rare case where it does deserve a patent somewhat. Would love to hear your point

[@SwagBroPlays]

Patenting Specific Game Mechanics is fucking dystopic

[@LAHFaust]

I'd argue it's no different from patenting a diesel engine or something. That it's vague enough to span the games from Red/Blue all the way to the current games is what's troubling. Patents are typically EXTREMELY specific but have enough wiggle that if somebody builds the same product but slightly different they can catch a lawsuit. Palworld vs Pokemon are far too different to warrant patent violation. If anything, Palworld is more "Rust but with Pokemon."

[@zyxey]

TRUE.

[@augustday9483]

​@@LAHFaust No, it's not like patenting a diesel engine. It's like patenting the CONCEPT of a diesel engine, so no one else can make any type of engine that uses diesel as fuel. What you're thinking of is patenting the design/implementation of a kind of technology. But patenting a game mechanic is more like patenting the result. It doesn't say anything about HOW the mechanic is coded, it's just "you can't have this mechanic in your game without paying us for a license". That's evil. That holds the industry back. Imagine if Id Software had patented the FPS so no one could make shooters for decades after Doom. That's what we're talking about here. Entire genres could effectively be destroyed if game mechanics can be patented.

[@LAHFaust]

@@augustday9483 like you stopped reading after the first sentence.

[@augustday9483]

@@LAHFaust I did read the whole post, but I wanted to address that I fully disagree with the notion that patenting a physical product is any way similar to parenting a game mechanic. Because at that point a game mechanic isn't even a software patent. It's like some kind of "idea patent". Which is what I find absurd.

[@thatonecookie242]

honestly i think gameplay patents just making gaming worse they shouldnt exist at all best example of this is the nemesis system and how no other game can use that system

[@thatonecookie242]

good video too this puts exactly what i was thinking into something comprehensible

[@ryanrg8511]

Whats the nemesis system? I've heard it alot but I dont know what it is

[@nathanlevesque7812]

no one ever justified the existence of such patents, and no one really can

[@minimoYT]

@@ryanrg8511 It's a mechanic in Shadow of Mordor. Some of the named enemies you fight can come back later in the game, they'll remember you and gain additional traits. Basically it turns some minibosses into recurring villains that get stronger with the player.

[@ericquiabazza2608]

Copyright and oatent has always been about EXCLUCIBITY Have a MONOPOLY on an idea/product/service. Always has been a catch up with thelaw. Example, wires, someone patented wires, and now they are everywhere so are Common Domain. The nemesis system will be reproduce and edited somewhere in the future. THE ONLY excuse this law have to exist is copy of idea 1:1, like getting illegal copies of an engine and making it again, But NO ONE is stupid enough to do that, they will improve on it or chabge its aspect. Not to mention how disney have been expanding the Exclusive right over all its media to 70+ years AFTER death of the author. I recomend checking public domain release each year, some good shit there

[@Harff-_-]

Namco-Bandai patented mini-games during loading screens ages ago, that's why those Dragon Ball games always had stuff like "mash X to do push-ups". So if you ever wonder why loading times have unnecessarily sucked for years, it's because of game design patents.

[@SatanenPerkele]

So the "no Internet access" dinosaur Jumping game is illegal?

[@indiana47]

​@@SatanenPerkele no, the dinosaur is when no internet, not loading.

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

​@@SatanenPerkele no, Since it's not a load screen

[@SatanenPerkele]

@@jesusramirezromo2037 A load screen to Internet acccess

[@FreedomFighterEx]

@@bluehairedaigaming It is but since hardware becoming more powerful, the loading time is almost non-existence anymore and since it got patented for so long, most of people lost interest into doing it.

[@SirEvilestDeath]

This news broke a little too close to right after Palworld announced it would be on PS5. Nintendo likely isn’t happy for Sony to have a Pokemon like game.

[@mr_biscuit]

Nintendo is really gonna hate their partnership with Sony Japan to make plushies they made a month back as well.

[@shakachoarroyo]

But they already do and it's called Persona

[@therealjaystone2344]

@@shakachoarroyopersona was never a Sony exclusive

[@AlexVanChezlaw]

It was before, SMT was exclusive to Nintendo for a couple of years in the 2010s. ​@@therealjaystone2344

[@MarvinPowell1]

Nintendo have been planning this for months. I doubt Soy had anything to do with it.

[@koikoimono4748]

nintendo on their way to sue italy for having people named mario and luigi

[@cinnamonnoir2487]

They have peaches and mushrooms there too. Friggin' hacks.

[@danielmalinen6337]

Wasn't there a case* a while ago where a child was denied a passport and an ID card because the boy's name was Luke and surname Skywalker and the passport office considered the name to be a copyright infringement because Disney owns the rights and trademark protection for that name combination? It would be interesting to know if the names Luigi and Mario have caused similar problems for people. (*unfortunately, according to that news article, the boy was not allowed to keep his name and so the boy's parents changed the name to Loki only to troll Disney)

[@ethanfreeman1106]

​@@danielmalinen6337"not allowed to keep the name mother and father gave you" is stupid and I'm not going to pretend it isn't. Yea, according to whom? The authorities? F that. If I can talk to that boy he will KNOW he is fully acknowledged as Luke Skywalker. By me. Sure, on paper and as seen by a body of government he might be Loki, but under MY authority and according to MY book, Luke Skywalker is as legitimate a name as any other. Also whoever made up that law to enforce that on the spot had no right to do it. I hereby dub that person, whoever was ultimately in charge of that decision, "one stupid mf." That's their name now.

[@jaymzx0]

Mamma mia!

[@Chokoboh]

MAMMA MIA!

[@gankgoat8334]

Pokemon is the most profitable IP in human history. The fact that they have a golden goose, yet choose to starve it in terms of funding and staff is an embarrassment. Imagine if the same level of work for Mario Odyssey had been applied to the last Pokemon game. Palworld would have been nothing.

[@jameskarg3240]

And perhapse THATS the whole problem with Pokemon: Theyre NOT getting the funding needed, yet are expected to push out annual titles. Frankly, blame Nintendos board of directors, THEY hold the fact they literally PAY Nintendo to exsist, and they likely deprioritized Gamefreak to focus on Mario and LOZ projects. Thats the BASE problem, the CEOs CEO is cutting funding to an ENTIRE branch of a corporation.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

I haven't played Super Mario Odyssey much. I have played Breath of the Wild and beaten it twice. It is one of my favorite Zelda games. Oh man. If Pokemon had a game with just as much effort, that would be incredible.

[@jameskarg3240]

@@c.d.dailey8013 of course. So really, Gamefreaks crisis ISNT their own OR Nintendos fault. The BoD is who dictates where the money goes, and if THEY say Gamevlfreak is getting short-sticked, there really isnt Jack and/or shit Nintendo can do or say to countermand them. So what is Gamefreak to do but try and secure what they CAN get, and protect what they stand to still gain from rivals?

[@Fernisvale]

@@jameskarg3240 holy cope

[@jameskarg3240]

@@Fernisvale I dont believe in "Corporations literally only give a damn about money" Thats a Bullshit lazy summize of intention surrounding the POINT of a bussiness. There is so much more about it that goes into it we talk SO much shit about ammounting as "well when I open a bussiness, I wont HAVE this or that that makes me reliant on money" yet we NEVER consider: what if we literally dont get a choice?

[@kiwilemons737]

I still can't over the fact its not just Pocketpair that can't use throwing a ball in a field as a mechanic, its ALL GAMESSSSS Like we'll never get the game we want from nintendo and they're making sure we won't ever get it at all from anyone wtf

[@AußerirdischeLebensForm]

Just don't publish in Japan. Let them pirate it.

[@Zelkiiro]

I don't want any Pokemon game that isn't a turn-based RPG, so I don't know what you're talking about.

[@teejaysounds420]

@@ZelkiiroI think he means a Pokemon game that’s actually polished. With a game world that doesn’t look like it’s running on PS2 hardware. A story that’s engaging but also lighthearted. A full national Dex without lying about their absence and then putting up a paywall for DLC to unlock the rest of the dex. A fully fledged end game that doesn’t consist of the same 3 boring tasks. More consistent and innovative gimmicks, or just a return to the fan favourite and building upon mega evolution. Just an overall better product to suit the price tag. You know, what they should be making with 20 plus years experience with this formula.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

ook ook competition hard lawsuits go brrrrrrrrrr

[@dennisbeaman958]

​@@teejaysounds420hey PS2 has a lot of games that run smoother and looks way better then pokemon

[@mrwri]

People were close to liking Nintendo again, so they had to make sure that didn't happen.

[@Horvath_Gabor]

The thing is, according to some people I know who can read Japanese, their home fanbase is completely on Nintendo's side and wants Palworld shut down. Now, take this with a pinch of salt, because who knows what kind of echo chamber the guy could've stumbled into, but just the fact that such sentiments exist in Japan says Nintendo might think they absolutely are the righteous ones in this case, and they don't care what people across the pond think.

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

And I don't understand why (for the people liking Nintendo thing). They never do anything for the fans or consumers. They upscale Nintendo Wii games that got mixed reviews and then charge full modern price. But their fans still buy it up due to the under-developed frontal lobes.

[@solanumtuberosa]

​@@haruhirogrimgar6047tbh I can say the same for western audience and disney

[@jobo5300]

The people who nintendo cares about most won't ever hear of this lawsuits existence. And among the more vivid games enthusiasts who follow gaming news you are already going to be either in the camp where you don't buy nintendo consoles and don't play their games or you are going to still purchase everything no matter what lawsuits nintendo throws out. The PR side of this really isn't as impactful as you would like to believe.

[@27泓佑劉]

For the record, east Asia is pretty much siding with Nintendo, not just Japan. Palworld screwed up, they get disciplined, period. No excuses, no whining, no nothing; they got mainstream popularity through controversy, this is the price they pay.

[@neoasura]

I remember Namco patenting the ability to play classic games during load screens, and when Sega patented the ability to free rotate a camera. This isn't the first time this has happened.

[@wrathfulgaming3373]

I thought it was the arrow pointing towards your next location that Sega patented?

[@x_voxelle_x]

@@wrathfulgaming3373 Yes, Sega did do goal arrows. I think @neoasura was mistaken because thousands of games have been released with free rotating cameras.

[@FreedomFighterEx]

@@wrathfulgaming3373 It is, for Crazy Taxi. Sega did patented over the zoom-in out slow panning camera when you changing view from cockpit to 3rd person. It is why no racing games do that and make it snappy instead which is actually better for the most case.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

actual slime creature behavior

[@thepikminbrawler1746]

The public reaction to this has always felt weird to me. It’s like people WANTED Nintendo to sue Palworld since that’s what it feels like the majority of conversation around the game was and were just waiting for it to happen with bated breath. It’s like the hatred for this lawsuit stems almost entirely from people’s distaste in the current state of Pokemon, rather than any kind of pro-consumer or anti-patent angle. Nintendo does this shit literally constantly and no one cares until now. You want to see something truly dystopian? Look into the kinds of patents Nintendo filed for Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. And then the whole “no one is going back to actually support it” just adds more fuel for my argument. Makes it really hard for me to take the internets side when it feels like this is a childish dig at Pokemon. And I don’t even like Pokemon myself

[@William99387]

Good video, but comparing elden ring's player count to palworld's is kinda weird, mostly due to elden ring getting a massive dlc recently. And when palworld got a big update during the summer time, it grew from 20k to 100k, so the same will probably happen when they release more content.

[@Zhtrik]

Also, Palworld is still in early access this is like comparing PUB:G to Fortnite’s Battle Royale Year 1 in terms of gameplay mechanics and stuff you can do.

[@SolitaryLark]

He definitely has some odd points

[@notreallyhim]

Not really, palworld is meme trash and the player count reflects that accurately.

[@William99387]

I mean, i wouldnt say pal world is just "meme trash" if it consistently gets over 20k players daily... like the game has 20k people playing rn while ark has 26k.

[@noty2673]

and lets not forget that comparing an indie game that was made with an indie budget to a goty winner that has a triple a budget and has a decades old dedicated fanbase is already a win for the former. and its not like having 20k+ players a day when the last significant update you had was months ago is by any means bad for a game that does not run a liveservice model. things dont have beat the literal best game of that year to be a great game.

[@Smexbi]

Oh boi, wait till Atlus finds out Gamefreak stole their monster catching mechanics. I find gameplay mechanics should not be able to get copyrighted. That's like writing a sentence and then making a patent of how you wrote that sentence.

[@TheMightyNovac]

I mean, they uhh... They didn't. They arguably stole their monster *collecting* mechanic, but Demon Negotiation in SMT is nothing like Pokemon. Palworld, meanwhile, actually just has Pokemon's exact method of creature collecting--up-to and including the whole throwing a ball to catch a wild animal action, the evolving, ect. I think it's fine to think that it's bad to sue on immoral patenting, yes, but I also think that pretending Palworld isn't uniquely, exceedingly derivative is, uhh... Dumb.

[@MarvinPowell1]

@Smexbi Pokemon stole their idea of catching creatures in objects from Ultraman, which the creator has directly stated several times over the decades. And they also stole the idea of them being capsule-like objects from Dragon Ball. Pokemon also stole many of their Pokemon designs from Dragon Quest (and you know, real life nature.) That's why I find it interesting that it's not The Pokemon Company and Game Freak suing Palworld, it's Nintendo doing it. Almost like The Pokemon Company knew this would lead to bigger problems if litigation got involved... Good luck trying to convince the Nintendo fanboys of anything though.

[@Gaia_Gaistar]

I miss other monster catching/training games. Are we getting a new Monster Rancher any time? I could swear I heard something.

[@abaddon1503]

@@Gaia_Gaistar Try Cassette Beasts!

[@deathmourne1]

@@TheMightyNovac The pal spheres give you a percentage and you watch the bar go up . As pals with a low chance of capture will bust right out with ease. In pokemon you buy or find pokeballs. In palword you cna only buy the basic type. Other types you find in chests, scattered about in the enviroment or you have to make them

[@TheHylianJuggalo]

The infuriating thing is the attempt to sue based on nebulous patents. One of the "infringements" is the fact palworld has differing creature spawns based on the time of day. BRO, NOCTURNAL ANIMALS ARE A REAL THING

[@jameskarg3240]

And Nintendo was the girst and ONLY to lock it down to THEIR games snd THEIRS alone

[@Draggobuttboi]

Wouldn't animal crossing from over 20 years ago also count? You can catch bugs and fish too so how on earth was that patent granted when the original expired?

[@sporovid5856]

Don’t thousands of games have that feature? Are they gonna sue Minecraft, Skyrim, etc. for having night-spawning enemies?

[@shooby9496]

I can name at least 5 NES games that spawn different enemies based on time of day. What a ludicrous notion.

[@BenersantheBread]

@@jameskarg3240 Please tell me this is sarcasm. I've seen so many braindead Nintendo fanboys that I genuinely can't tell

[@rayofmeep]

I don't agree that Palworld was a flash in the pan. You compare the player counts between Elden Ring vs Palworld, 57K per day vs 25K, when both numbers are fantastic. For additional perspective, Palworld's player count is on par with that of Left 4 Dead 2: an all time classic. 25K players a day still puts Palworld firmly in the top ten most played games on Steam per day, if not top five, according to SteamDB. I also don't agree that Palworld's success came from being a Pokemon ripoff. If anything, this is an additional fault of Nintendo's, who have neglected the quality of their franchise for so many years, leaving a vacuum of sorts that Pocketpair gladly filled. Players wanted a Monster-catching game of decent quality, and Palworld gave them that. If the Pokemon Company invested into their games as heavily as they should, I doubt Palworld would've seen success like this.

[@severdislike4222]

Honestly it's on par with Ark Survival Evolved's trajectory for a survival crafter. Long as Pocket Pear is around long enough to add more islands/maps to Palworld it'll likely have the same longevity as Ark Survival Evolved did too (prior to being axed by snail games / wildcard to pay off their publishers absolutely bizarre debts.)

[@AshnSilvercorp]

player counts don't seem to mark the success of this game. If they are looking to expand to other IPs, if the pals are memorable, people will want to see pals elsewhere. That could also mean them actually making pal focused games, while the Pokemon company seems to keep making choices that explicitly exclude their own pokemon...

[@SolitaryLark]

Elden ring is one of the most successful games ever and part of a franchise that people replay constantly. It’s the worst thing to pick for comparison.

[@marmar3530]

It's success is purely from being a Pokemon ripoff. It is what it is.

[@FalloutDrake-go9jf]

Nintendo will never improve because it doesn't care about the IP's they hold, except for very specific cases, such as games that have superficially similar mechanics as any Mario or Pokemon title (read: about a solid quarter of the video game market). In which case, they forego reason and immediately go for the lawsuit option, like the smoothbrains they are.

[@FINALQUEST7]

i remember when capcom sue koei tecmo for a patent about transferring data between games in the ps2 era, but they sue them in the ps4 era, and they won. is crazy out there

[@ausgod538]

Funny how almost no one knows this happened

[@ericm5315]

That's why Japan is a dysfunctional mess when it comes to stuff like this. Totally dystopian

[@leedlebob2667]

​@@ausgod538 Thats because news about lawsuits have to include the big guys. Other names just don't get the traction unfortunately.

[@nophion2-electricboogaloo647]

While I agree that Palworlds devs kinda picked the fight here, thats only the case because we all know how easily Nintendo sues everyone. In the past few years there have been a lot of obscure soulslikes but no one expects Fromsoftware to sue them. But whenever anything remotely Pokemonlike appears everyone gets their popcorn for the surely ensuing legal battle.

[@Yuuki_Asuna]

I mean some of the designs in palword are nearly identical to pokemon, it is not that obvious in soulslikes games

[@Crater1221]

@@Yuuki_Asuna And yet none of them were "nearly identical" enough to be worth suing over copyright and trademark infringement.

[@SuperCrazyfin]

What about Yokai Watch? Did they get sued?

[@The24thWight]

You know. It's kinda fucked that you can't make a game even remotely similar in any capacity can be sued into oblivion because nintendo felt like it. Nintendo has this idea that they own everything and intends to use it to strangle anything that has a chance to make a good game. I mean as far as I can tell they basically think the ability to capture and summon pals is their idea (though if I recall dragon warrior five? did it a few years before the first Pokémon game so YK) But honestly I've long since decided nintendo is a corrupt demonic parasite that exists only to kill any creativity left in the market. Here's hoping nintendo gets their shit wrecked on this lawsuit.

[@takingday]

@@SuperCrazyfin Probably cause it was released in the Wii U era where nintendo had less goodwill and money to throw away.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

What's concerning is that this patent isn't that old, but became official not even a year after Palwords release into early access. It really does look like an attempt to snuff out potential competition before it can even really get off the ground. Given the declining quality of recent Pokemon titles, and here comes a small group of guys making a game that blows what Gamefreak and Nintendo made out of the water. Even if it's not because of the competition, it's a huge blow to their ego that someone was able to do what they do, but better and for cheaper.

[@RoystoReed-fl6gt]

It's legally questionable and won't fly.

[@ganondoof]

I wouldn't consider palworld a competitor to pokemon at all. As you said it's more of a survival crafting game. It's really tiring to see people who haven't played either palworld or pokemon say "palworld is better than any new pokemon game" because it just isn't comparable.

[@TrixyTrixter]

Agree. This video screams of someone that has not even given this game a minute of playtime trying to make some argument on why its ok for Nintendo to do this.

[@OzixiThrill]

They're not competitors, because Pokemon is exclusively on Nintendo platforms and Palworld is exclusively NOT on those. Competition only exists in shared environments.

[@dopiercomic4106]

Palworld's player count dropped and has stayed relatively low because people played the game and beat it. For the most part, everyone who was going to play Palworld already has so it's not going to draw in many new players. There also hasn't been too many major content releases to bring back old players. It shouldn't be a shock that the game has fewer players than Elden Ring, which recently dropped one of the most anticipated DLC releases in the history of gaming. It's like people forget video games have a life cycle.

[@RandoGrunt]

These KZbinrs deliberately ignore that Pocketpair themselves stated this game isn’t some live service microtransaction hell and once you’ve had your fun, it’s put down and the player goes to do something else and that’s perfectly okay. I swear to God they’ve all gotten so used to this free to play live service model they cannot even fathom the existence of a traditional buy to play game that’s a one price tag that doesn’t need everyone to be married to the dang thing.

[@SnugWugs137]

What is it with these Japanese video game companies fucking over everything for themselves?

[@Kalmera6238]

Its almost like Nintendo is just a very successful Yakuza family

[@the-letter_s]

it's because they're an entirely different culture group. western companies are somewhat obligated to at least vaguely pretend to be something other than single-mindedly greedy and cutthroat, due to the culture of their customer-bases opposing those attitudes. East-Asian cultures are almost completely opposite in this regard, and put value on being clever and even conniving in business. this is why, for instance, Chinese industrial firms are infamous for scalping and scamming foreigners at every opportunity.

[@sleepyespurr2922]

​@@Kalmera6238The same goes with Sega's parent company.

[@commandoepsilon4664]

It isn't just Japanese video game companies. (looks accusatory at EA)

[@therealjaystone2344]

@@Kalmera6238the spirit of the yakuza never left

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

Microsoft had its own controversy by laying off a bunch of staff. Sony had its own controversy by blocking Helldivers behind a PlayStation account. Nintendo wanted its own controversy!

[@aze94]

Gotta keep up with the competition!

[@kinglycrimson]

Sony at least put in the tos iirc, that you'd need a psn account to play eventually and also reverted it. Nintendo is just being an asshole here

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

As CandyEvie said, Palworld is *way too early* for them to use AI. The timeline of trailers simply isn't possible. We can definitely rest the AI acussations, please. Also (software) patents are hella dumb and i'm glad my country doesn't have it. IP as a concept is already pretty bunk, so we _really_ should scrap it altogether. EDIT: Can we pool up resource to find prior art? Cloudflare sometime ago has quell patent lawsuit because they bounty prior art for inter-partes review, invalidating their patents. We can _definitely_ do it, just need enough people looking and some reward.

[@SushiSteakSeafood]

no i want artists to have incentive to keep creating. Getting rid of IP law is a bad idea. Reining it in is a good one.

[@EvilParagon4]

@@SushiSteakSeafood Artists do have an incentive to keep creating without IP Law, it's called making things for the sake of making things.

[@malif1279]

Indeed

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

@@SushiSteakSeafood We have created art and innovate since the dawn of time. Do IP exists back then? No. Do IP made the current works possible? Maybe, but nowadays it's all about money and isn't genuine. And yet artists still got the shaft anyways.

[@ven7165]

Nintendo winning this would basically imply that any company can legally prevent competition from existing and monopolize an industry. Throwing objects to catch something is patented? Hiding behind a tree and casting a shadow is patented? With pokemon games going to crap and Nintendo being an ass to everyone, your options are to stop playing Nintendo (people won't because addiction to anything on the internet is real and this is a day and age where people think crying hard enough will solve their problems) or to get played.

[@yasunakaikumi]

it will also limit a lot of indie/big company games to sell those pokemon like in Japan that has the potential to get big, outside of Japan it will be fine but accessing the Japanese market, Nintendo will patent troll them so im sure any games that will going to be made outside of Japan will never going to reach Japan because of it.

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

it's why there's no games in loading screens for decades because of bandai namco

[@fluffynator6222]

Wow, you're so edgy and insightful. People truly do... cry to protest. A real thing that totally happens.

[@yasunakaikumi]

@@dissonanceparadiddle Back in the 90s as a kid, I was actually fine with no mini game while loading, it was actually a nice exercise to move away my eyes from the TV at the moment, come to think of it good for kids health (nice job namco).

[@Kloyster2010]

@@fluffynator6222 hi Patrick star

[@thunderdragon8341]

thing is patents like this only exist in japan not here in the US so if nintendo wins it will only be delisted in japan if nintendo wins then ubisoft should sue nintendo look at assassin's creed linking with towers to get maps is an assassin's creed thing and nintendo copied it in zelda breath of the wild

[@halo129830]

Oooh boy that’s a can of worms Japan doesn’t want to open several game mechanics are ripped off others and many companies will go patent stuff in Japan just to stop innovation.

[@MarvinPowell1]

Dragon Quest and a ton of JRPG's could sue Nintendo, as literally nothing Pokemon came up with was original. The closest original game mechanic Pokemon invented were the different element types, but that was only the first time it was done in a video game RPG; as Capcom could argue Pokemon stole the idea from Mega Man. Nintendo are too greedy to realize what a dangerous precedent they are setting up here if they end up winning.

[@screamingseal4805]

Straight up false Warner brothers copyrighted the nemesis system and they aren’t even Japanese

[@halo129830]

@@screamingseal4805 they did that in international patent offices which have a lifetime of 20 years. Nintendo only did it in Japan thus they have no way to enforce it outside Japan.

[@thebravegallade731]

​@@MarvinPowell1 On the other hand if it goes to an all out lawsuit FFA its nintendo who'd win as they've been the most innovative ones. The reason wveryone patents everything was because once upon a tome patent trolls were rampant, and so it was a gentlemen's agreement. Nintendo square sega and the like usually leave most people alone. The one exeption was colpol, but it was them trying to enforce thier patent which... was based on nintendo's patent invented 5 years ago...so nintendo slapped that down. Ergo nintendo has a reputation in japan of beong the good guy when it comes to patent lawsuits.

[@ThomasWeaver1992]

Pikachu used lawsuit

[@Wanelmask]

"It's super effective!"

[@Wanelmask]

Nintendo used Army of lawyers

[@cliffordkun2844]

Digimon and other monster franchises joined the battle to defend Palworld.

[@ratedr7845]

they just want some way to get back at palworld

[@FrozenFold_Bread]

Questioning the powers that be is taboo in, if I remember, Japanese culture and is why they hire Americans to tell leaders of groups, ‘That’s a horrible idea’

[@cantingpython]

Currently Palworld is a blend of pokemon/ark/dark souls and it is very derivitive but to me that doesnt mean pocketpair has blame on being sued. Their blend of all 3 of those types of games worked out well. It is an early access game so maybe in 2 years those 3 parts wont feel so separate but feel like a good blend or something entirely new. Nintendo releases fun games for their console and i know people like that but they really suck when it comes to their interactions with anything else.

[@MarioTGP]

so what's going to happen with the whimsu channel?

[@MrCatofdoom]

Mortis

[@nieznajomy4398]

Dead and is never going back, Tyler is too busy with this channel and althistory hub

[@SilentForrest]

​@@nieznajomy4398that's a shame. Content he makes now is a little subpar. I love his planned out videos where he makes jokes and obviously put in time editing. This is just a almost a still livestream, dry news and speculation...

[@MustraOrdo]

@@nieznajomy4398 Doesn't his brother Cody run althisthub?

[@nieznajomy4398]

@@MustraOrdo He is helping Cody.

[@SolitaryLark]

14:19 incorrect it does have a thing to do with national pride. Nintendo is an old and long standing company that IS connected to the national identity where Pocketpair is none of those things.

[@patifuso7562]

6:20 I think that although Nintendo is known for being litigious, they also understood that going after Palworld at its peak would cause a massive uproar. So, they waited until the hype around Palworld died down to sue.

[@suroguner]

the massive uproar happened anyway.

[@justanotheraccounthere2014]

Not only the potential huge blowback, but they want Palworld to make as much revenue as possible before suing for damage, so that Nintendo can make the claim in damage go to a bigger number, maximizing both the potential return, the scary message on others and chance of bankrupting your rival in one lawsuit.

[@MarvinPowell1]

You really think Nintendo cares what the fans think? No. They spent months using their lawyers to try to get them on copyright infringement, and when that failed because of Japan's version of parody and "25% different," they went for this cheap desperation move. I wish the Nintendo fanboys (not you; others in the comments) would realize Nintendo is not your friend; they are the Disney of Japan and just as awful.

[@suroguner]

@@MarvinPowell1 I would actually put them a few steps behind Disney, but still pretty bad in terms of lawfare. Disney has gotten so bad they're falling apart now.

[@fluffynator6222]

Nintendo doesn't do PR. What probably happened is that lawsuits take an eternity to even start up.

[@jellewijckmans4836]

The thing about patents and patent law is that notoriously nobody really checks if a patent is valid when it is being filed. This has gotten slightly better which some places at least no longer allowing like infinite energy machines to be patented but overall patents are worthless until a court has actually filled in favor of it once. We know that these types of gameplay patents don't tend to holdup in court so their only real point is scare people into not risking it even if the actual odds are very low.

[@halo129830]

Even if they win in Japan they can take the case to international copyright court and they will throw it out.

[@cinnamonnoir2487]

You know, Tyler, it's interesting to me that you bring up the idea that Palworld's visual design for the "pals" is uncreative and kind of a ripoff, because I would argue that _Pokemon's_ whole aesthetic is also pretty ripped off. It wasn't in the first few generations, but as soon as they started going for the cutesy, bright-colors vibe their characters started to look a lot like the ones designed by Sanrio, a much older company that's been creating characters since the 1970s. This is leaving aside the fact that the vast majority of Pokemon are based on real animals and therefore have many aesthetic qualities that no human being deserves credit for inventing. It's kind of like how Disney made a ton of money by using and building on the aesthetics of existing illustrated children's stories, then turned around and started suing the pants off anyone who "infringed" on an aesthetic that wasn't originally theirs. It also reminds me a great deal of the lawsuit that the makers of PUBG filed against that game's imitators, and while Bluehole was correct that these other companies were trying to ride the wave of their publicity, all the bloviating about how they had been _so_ creative and their hard work was being _stolen_ really bothered me. PUBG was a mod of a mod of somebody else's game, and its premise was taken from a 20-year old movie. They didn't invent the idea of having shipping containers in a port setting, or using a frying pan to hit people, but they pretended to, along with lots of other ideas which no one should really claim to have invented. I don't feel sorry for Pocketpair _or_ Nintendo here, and I don't play Pocketpair's games, but when you say that you don't sympathize with Pocketpair because they're obviously ripoff artists, that feeling is irrelevant to whether they actually broke the law or not, just the same as the PUBG ripoffs. Obviously the courts will decide, but I don't think Nintendo's case is remotely legitimate either on the basis which they actually cited or the design infringement case you believe they have. Copyrights don't protect ideas, they protect _works_ and parts of works, and that distinction is vitally important if you want creativity to survive. Competition that skirts the line of ripping things off, even when it's "ungentlemanly" like the games that Pocketpair makes, is a good thing for consumers. It keeps the owners of popular IP from resting on their laurels and getting lazy, as Nintendo and Game Freak unquestionably have. When a company like Team Cherry takes a decade to come out with another Hollow Knight, I'm glad _someone_ recognizes the demand for that kind of experience and tries to fill it, even if they end up failing miserably. To everyone who owns a hot property, if you hate ripoffs then you should make something so good that the ripoff artists can't compete. You may not like the idea of others "stealing your ideas", but your ideas were a gift to begin with, and you shouldn't want to extract every last drop of value that others find in them, especially if you won't do anything more with them yourself.

[@kood995]

Best comment in the comment's section.

[@no.5924]

Agreed

[@Socioromanticism]

Very thoughtful comment. And you countered a lot of my concerns with the arguments against Nintendo and pointed out the grossness of Pocketpair. It wouldn't disrupt your whole argument, and it doesn't apply here. But by throwing out patents for legitimately creative game ideas _by_ *indie* developers, what keeps a larger entity from stealing _those_ ideas from the smaller company as a matter of standard operating procedures? I'm also not in favor of just allowing for anything or feeling it's okay (even if it's legal) for companies to do anything unethical just because or primarily because it leads to a better product. Also, I don't think competition _from_ a game like Palworld (even if it was made by an indie team that actually cared about its games...I think Craftopia is still in early access...) inherently means a better product by competition, especially in the modern day. I think "competition breeds a better product" is an outdated concept that doesn't hold up in practice. Companies and their legal teams are savvy and defensive enough to not have to compete, and they've been that way in tech/tech-related sectors for as long as most of us have been adults. So I'll grant you that my stance "Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's okay or it should go unchecked" is just my ethical stance, I don't think that stance falls any more than "Competition should breed better products for the consumer," because I don't think it actually does anymore.

[@autobotstarscream765]

You're thinking of when Ken Sugimori started to retire from making Pokémon character designs and new artists like James Turner started to take over. If Satoshi Tajiri is the Yuji Naka of Pokémon, Ken Sugimori is the Naoto Oshima.

[@cinnamonnoir2487]

@@Socioromanticism You have to ask yourself what patents exist for in the first place. They're a device by the government to promote useful inventions by assuring inventors that as long as they make their work publicly available (that's what the adjective "patent" means), the government will prevent others from copying their work without paying them for a certain period. Once the period is over, the inventor is presumed to have been reasonably compensated for the cost of development and the invention enters the public domain, where anyone can use it for free. My problem with most of these video game patents is that I don't think they qualify as a mechanical innovation that requires a great deal of effort to invent. Many of them seem far more like artistic choices that ought to fall under copyright rather than patent. For instance, until 2015 Bandai Namco had a patent on including a minigame during your game's loading screens. They didn't have special code that made this possible, or a hardware device that enabled it; instead they were basically assumed to own the _idea_ of a loading screen minigame. I think that's ridiculous. Anyone could come up with that idea, and I don't see why the first person to implement should have the right to foreclose others from the advantages of using it. When companies can lay claim to ideas that already exist rather than having to invent new ones, that doesn't benefit smaller innovators because at that point the benefits of patenting are unrelated to innovation. Larger corporations have the resources to file more patents than anyone else, so indie developers won't be able to get a foot in the door. Instead they'll be prevented from using their _own_ ideas because those ideas are too similar to ones already patented by Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. Patent trolling is a much bigger potential problem than patent infringement, particularly when the concept of a "patent" is stretched this far. I agree with you that companies shouldn't be allowed to do illegal things, or encouraged to do unethical things, just because it might improve the products they create. The thing is, I don't think imitation _is_ unethical. As you'll note from the examples in my original comment, most innovators do a great deal of imitation themselves. It's how the human mind works. I would argue that most of the bellyaching over copyright and patent infringement is done by those who subscribe to a double standard; when _I_ imitate, I add something and make the idea truly my own, but when _you_ imitate me you're just stealing. There's nothing outdated about the idea that competition makes products better. Look at any industry dominated by a single company or a single provider of services and you'll see the stagnation that accompanies the demise of competition. However, "better" doesn't necessarily mean "good". If competition brings a product up from terrible to mediocre, you may not appreciate the difference because mediocre isn't good enough for you. I don't think the recent Pokemon games _or_ Palworld are particularly good. Competition may not be enough to make this kind of game something I'm interested in, but that doesn't make it useless. When you say that corporations can get away with not competing these days, I think that's unnecessarily negative. They only don't have to compete if you'll give them your money no matter what they do. I don't patronize companies that shove garbage at me, and I hope you don't either.

[@Donutgames00]

Remember when Warner Bros patented the nemesis system for Shadow of War. Patents should be for technology and inventions, not game mechanics.

[@Taunocturna]

If nothing else, Palworld showed a pokemon competitor is achievable at least in the video game space. Pokemon got comfortable because they're "too big to fail" they got lazy because the vast majority of the money is made by merchandising and the games are advertising for that merchandise. Nintendo should have stepped in a long time ago and said your lack quality is damaging our reputation as company. And now their lack quality makes a game like Palworld and Roco Kingdom the space where they can realistically start competitive race to dethrone franchise as the premiere monster catching game. Tencent is big enough they can eat a 150 million dollar lawsuit from nintendo and still continue as business as usual. Pocketpair, well we'll see.

[@nightwing2032]

I don’t think they are trying to dethrone the Pokemon franchise. The Pokemon franchise is still the most valuable franchise and ip ever. The Pokemon franchise is just very big with many different ways to make not just the games since the Pokemon is a multi media franchise. Considering gamefreak are the ones making the mainline games not Nintendo and only has 33 or 32 percent of shares within the Pokemon franchise. Nintendo has never made any mainline Pokemon games. Which is why a majority of monster taming games can’t keep up with the Pokemon franchise when Pokemon is releasing new mainline games, spinoff games, anime, new merchandise, new movies, new manga, new tcg cards, and new everything within every new Pokemon generation.

[@TheTrueAdept]

No, the thing is that if Pokemon changes *_any_* of its core mechanics, it'll have the Fallout No Mutants Allowed problem but on a *_FAR_* bigger scale. In addition, Palworld literally used 'Pokemon with guns' as one of its slogans, and Nintendo is *_VERY PROTECTIVE_* of its IPs' image.

[@roycampbell586]

Palworld didn't show that though. All of the REAL alternatives to pokemon got eaten by palworld's hype. Cassette beasts, Digimon World & Digimon Story, Coromon, Nexomon, and plenty others got no attention and none of the people talking about pokemon sucking cared about those games. There isn't and can't be a pokemon competitor, which I'm genuinely bummed about.

[@JDReC100]

​@@roycampbell586​ no. Many of those games/franchises came out before palworld, some years before. One of the most innovative of the games came out last year, cassette beasts. People praised it for all the wonderful innovations to the genre, an didn't get half of palworlds sales. Also keep in mind: Pretty much everyone saw palworld as a joke before it's public release. A trendy meme game that would die out within a week. And when that didn't happen and people were mad at it's success they told others about all the good and great mons games they though deserved more recognition. And of those games, cassette beasts was commonly mentioned. Palworld didn't eat the other games hype. (If anything pokemon is more guilty of this). The other games just never reached the highs palworld ended up getting. It's not the fault of palworld or the other games. That's just how the market is sometimes.

[@magusjiro]

Palworld is an early access game. With survival crafting games, people return when there are large updates.

[@BladeBloodTear]

In regards to the japense comments and it not being about nationalion. It is about that for the japanese defenders. Nintendo is a conpany thats been around for 100+ years and is a core major conpany for japense citizens. Pocket pair is being seen as a disrespectful child that deserves to be ounished for " not respecting its elders" from the majority of the comments seen online.

[@idrathernot_2]

And that's why Pokemon stans should be put into nursing homes

[@ObeseChess]

This is the point I’ve been making since this whole thing started and I’m glad I’m not alone - Nintendo patenting a game mechanic and then suing another company for using it like this is absolutely a Dick Move. I don’t think you should be able to patent game mechanics and I think that patent and copyright law are just cartoonishly broken worldwide. However, Pocketpair would have known that the Pokémon Company is extremely protective of its IP and that Nintendo is extremely litigious, and as such it’s hard to see them encouraging the “Pokemon with Guns” comparison and the nearly-identical “Pals” as anything other than poking the bear.

[@halo129830]

Do some research before pocket pair even released the game they went through Nintendo and courts to see if they could even release it.

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

Pocketpair still developing Palworld *despite* Pokemon (and Nintendo) litigious nature should be applauded as bravery instead of scolded en masse.

[@ObeseChess]

@@hanifarroisimukhlis5989 maybe! I’m certainly not scolding them and I hope my comment doesn’t come off like it does. I hope they win, and in fact I hope they win so hard that it sets a precedent against the patenting of game mechanics! But I do think they flew VERY close to the sun and this was an incredibly predictable outcome. This is all speculation at this point anyway since we don’t know what the patents, etc were, and I’m interested in seeing how this unfolds.

[@ObeseChess]

@@halo129830 I’ve been digging for a while and I can’t find anything like this online - the closest I can find is the CEO of Pocketpair saying in an interview shortly after release that the game had passed “legal review” and that they hadn’t been sued.

[@jsmith3946]

@@ObeseChess also Nintendo had nothing to do with this they don't own pokemon company also Japanese compaines are ok with other people using the patent and only go after them if they are over baring in fact if we did included Nintendo it would be there second patent lawsuit

[@josephsager9425]

12:28 re: Pokéballs Listen, nobody wants to re-record their script, but when you're editing the video, and get to the line in the script that says, "magical spheres look EXACTLY like Pokéballs," but the image is two very un-similar spheres... just, c-mon, man! ADR isn't gonna kill you.

[@TrixyTrixter]

The video reaks of someone who did littlw to no actual fakt checking before repeating a nararive given to them.

[@Kloyster2010]

yeah they look nothing alike, I was so confused. I was like: so now ball-shaped objects are copyright infringement?

[@SilentForrest]

But also, Pokémon has so many characters. If you think of a character, it's probably a Pokémon already. For example, a orange cat looking creature that does a backflip to stun enemies. That probably exist to some extent. And Nintendo can't own the premise of owning creatures that fight. The case will be interesting, I hope Palworld wins. I think copyright laws are way to strict as is

[@autobotstarscream765]

The backflipping cat is red and named Incineroar. 😼

[@mogscugg2639]

Why did the grass lizard pal specifically have two antennae and a flower around its neck?

[@Faniwa828]

I think there's a difference between a character resembling another character and a character literally having the exact same features as multiple other characters. Like, I usually don't mind that much when medias do this. Especially parodies. But I do mind when people just straight up deny it for no reason lol. Like, there is literally a Pal that has the same exact hair as a Pokémon. Except for it not having beads despite having an indent for them (like, it's a squished where the Pokémon's beads would be). And there is another one that was found in the game files that was literally just Mega Mewtwo Y but colored black! There's a bunch more examples that I could use (like the Pal that had Clodsire's body, Sobble's top fin, and Slowpoke's face), but I digress. And whenever people retort, they always use that blatantly incorrect Dragon Quest picture. Like, at the very least, they could use some more accurate comparisons like Tyranitar/Godzilla..

[@Grumoire]

​@Faniwa828 Yea, the primarina/serperior clone was the most blatant thing for me. I was genuinely amazed at how many people where claiming it's just random chance that it has the exact same hair down to the indents and swirls. As someone who works in modeling I feel like it's very blatantly that Palworld just retopologized pokemon models and kitbashed them together.

[@jesusojeda7850]

You're asking for a secuel when the actual game is still supposed to be in early-access status. Two things about the steam player charts: Player servers doesn't appear in the steam count, and the main reason why player numbers drop is the aforementioned early access situation- the game is incomplete with zero end game content.

[@navynarupan8979]

As for why the decline in popularity/players of Palworld, it's more about people taking a break after seeing everything the early access game has to offer and taking a break after playing it. Also 25 million within a month goes to show a LOT of people has seen what the game offers and are probably waiting for the big updates. There was a surge in player count when Palworld got a new content update, just like what a video game cycle should go through.

[@RunicRasol]

This. I am SICK of hearing "Game lost 80% of its users after a month. Dead game guys". Especially for single player games. You can beat games like Kingdom Hearts in about 30 hours. Maybe 40-50 if you want to go for a full 100% run. Does this mean the game is "bad"? Does every game need to be a life-consuming live service intended to be played until the end of time?

[@D3adCl0wn]

@@RunicRasol Whats ironic is that Elden Ring was used for comparison, when that game literally went on the same cycle as Palworld. Worse ER is a goty title. Black myth wukong is next🤣

[@Bullminator]

The game is still not finished, so main reason why the playerbase drop. Right now satisfactory came out after so many years of early and population got up much higher. So expect the same for a game to pop the population up again when it hits 1.0. Pokemon company doesnt even patch their games to improve them, just some minor hotfixes at best and its usualy a exploit or a broken move.

[@DeadAir21]

There’s only so much you can do with Palworld at this point. There’s no story you just capture pals, defeat the legendaries, and beat the towers. Survival games don’t have much replay ability

[@FreelancerStudios100]

I had a lot of arguments that palworld is more than just a fad cause its numbers are great for an early access game and your comparing it to a fully finished game with a game size dlc that just dropped, but others in this comment section have said that but better. Props to them

[@JeffBilkins]

Palworld was perfect streamer and youtuber bait, like colorful and a bit crazy.

[@vertsang5424]

why are you talking in the past tense? the game isn't even out yet. Last major update was merely 3 months ago and there's weekly bugfixes

[@emeraldfinder5]

@@vertsang5424 because it was big like six months ago

[@vertsang5424]

@@emeraldfinder5 still big right now

[@emeraldfinder5]

@@vertsang5424 okay, live in denial

[@RunicRasol]

@@emeraldfinder5 Steam shows Palworld still gets about 20k unique users per day. That's still pretty healthy TBH. A far cry form the 2 million they got at its peak, but the game is limited in its current state. There is only so much you can do with it. Nothing wrong with beating a game, and then moving on to something else. Not every game is meant to be played forever, or until you learn to hate it.

[@TheUltimateNavigator1]

So I will say; Palworld rn doesn't have that big of a peak but when the latest major update released in June the game skyrocketed back to about 150k players and sat around there until late august, the game's gonna last because those updates give incentive to come back to it for most people and then it drops after that content is consumed as the devs of palworld is supporting. They want people to try out other games in the middle of content updates

[@luigifan001]

2:34 skip ad 🎉 Also Nintendo is not Pokemon Company 😂

[@darksars3622]

These types of comments make me proud

[@swaggitypigfig8413]

Make this the top comment. Go on

[@nazrin992]

@@swaggitypigfig8413 Haven't heard of SponsorBlock?

[@otapic]

Not quite, The Pokemon Company is a joint venture by Nintendo, Game freak, and Creatures inc So while Nintendo isn't all of TPC, Nintendo is still part of it

[@firstnamlastnam2141]

Reminder that they did the same thing with Eternal Darkness' fourth wall breaking satiny mechanics.

[@Passafist333]

I've debated doing a similar mechanic but being aware Nintendo has bullshittedly patented it, I've been hesitant.

[@halo129830]

You’re fine outside of Japan but just be aware and keep a lawyer on retainer.

[@firstnamlastnam2141]

@@Passafist333 I want to assume they wouldn't care about it, especially given how fourth wall heavy indie games have become, but you really can't tell with them. At least in the US, patents expire after about 20 years, I think, so it _should_ be safe anyway, with it coming out in 2002.

[@firstnamlastnam2141]

@@halo129830 I don't know if I'd call that fine.

[@MarvinPowell1]

And the Nemesis System from Shadow of Mordor.

[@yasunakaikumi]

To me I think the originality of Palworld is on how they used the monsters as a tool for automating the crafting mechanic of the game, especially utilizing the elements they have, I have never seen a game that actually did something similar in the past. (I might be wrong but im in my late 30s now so I been gaming since the early 90s), so it is a bunch of game mechanic being joined together but it became its own thing to be honest.

[@cinnamonnoir2487]

People act like creativity and imitation are two different things when the truth is that creativity _grows out of_ imitation. How many great painters are there in history who started their education by copying and sketching the works of older artists? If Manet hadn't been allowed to imitate Velasquez, he wouldn't have been Manet.

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

Not only that, but real-time combat is also very unique in Pokemon-likes. Every single game so far that imitates Pokeom always carry turn-based combat. Palworld being real-time and pals actually fighing with you feels like you have a very useful smart pet instead of a dumb one.

[@CEzikMaj]

Company that can destroy the life of their youngest fan with lawsuit, because he dared to host a pokemon themed party should not be treated seriously.

[@Zalman1337]

Wrong. They were using official pokemon branding, charging admission and selling pokemon themed alcohol.

[@kappadarwin9476]

Pokemon does sell party merch so something else had to be going on.

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

That wasn't the case, they where advertising it and charging as if it was an official event

[@LeafSouls]

​@@jesusramirezromo2037does it really matter?

[@KIKAN_THE_RAT]

I think the funniest thing is that the Palworld developers clearly made the game jist combining shit in like a month and they still made a far better game than ANY Pokemon game since like 10 years. I grew up with pokemon and i loved them but, nowadays just fuck pokemon. Fuck nintendo

[@halo129830]

Yea funny thing is pokemon uranium unironically kicked of the pokemon fan game genre and now Nintendo can’t do anything about it there are so many out there now.

[@MarvinPowell1]

I couldn't agree more. Pokemon peaked with HeartGold and SoulSilver. Gen 5 had a good story, but was a major downgrade in almost all game mechanics (except infinite TM use; that was cool.) Gen 6 was mediocre and unfinished, and gen 8 was complete trash. Every single Pokemon game on the Switch is complete trash, in my opinion. (I HATED Let's Go P & E when it first came out, and it's ironically the least bad Pokemon game on the Switch now. At least they had a good art style with that one.) I haven't paid money for a single Pokemon Switch game; Nintendo and Game Freak don't deserve my money nowadays. I still play older Pokemon games on the 3DS and virtual console from time to time, but Palworld has renewed my love of the monster RPG genre, and it's not even out of alpha stage yet. The game could still benefit a lot more before it finally releases, but Nintendo just had to be greedy and evil again.

[@lenarianmelon4634]

@@MarvinPowell1 Gen 5 lost like 1 major game mechanic what do you mean almost all. And it added several more that have become a regular staple until now (except seasons, I'm still mad they never returned).

[@Cattivagirl]

​@@lenarianmelon4634Black/White had far less QoL content than Gen 4 (No more follow Pokémon, berry farming being exclusive to the Dream World which was shut down a decade ago, & a Battle Subway instead of the Battle Frontier.) It wasn't until the sequels Black 2/White 2 that we received a bunch of bonus content like Pokéstar Studios & the in-game World Tournament.

[@lenarianmelon4634]

@@Cattivagirl Black and White two are still part of Gen 5 though, it's not like Diamond and Pearl introduced all the known Gen 4 features at once as well.

[@clockwork8968]

Given how Gamefreak has been just utterly failing to keep up with modern game development. Someone at Nintendo must be seeing the writing at the wall. Pokemon 'clones' are only going to pick up steam. If Sony or Microsoft start trying to compete in the Creature capture genre it'll cost Nintendo a crapton of money because anything short of completely reforming the Studio and delaying the upcoming releases for quality assurance, which could take combined up to a decade, Pokemon games will not able to keep up in the modern gaming market. Franchise recognition is all they have right now.

[@MrSpartan993]

Then Nintendo deserves to fail. If your product sucks then it shouldn’t make the at much money now should it?

[@_sliver]

Pokemon strives off merchandise and has done for years, having competition on the game side of the things will hardly hurt the franchise that much

[@JDReC100]

​@@_sliver Sony is partnering with pocketpair to make thier own "pokemon international company". Anime and merch are in Palworlds future with this partnership, and considering more people watch the anime than play the games, and pokemons main income is merchendise...it isn't a far fetched idea Nintwndo would not like this at all.

[@Leo-ok3uj]

Shadows of Mordor still casts a shadow in our world, but if Nintendo loses this case, maybe we’ll be able to get rid of that shadow

[@tecpaocelotl]

Gaming mechanics patents are dumb. Palworld looks more like Monster Hunter mix with Dragon Quest/Warrior with Pokémon-like creatures.

[@worstspytf2824]

'Patent Trolls' have been around for years, mainly its actually random smaller companies trademarking the most basic and vague things and suing large game developers hoping to get some quick cash from a settlement. Like the idea of opening chests to get rewards, mobile companies like supercell I know have been made to pay, they'll sue multiple companies constantly for years on end hoping to get a big payout to make their money back and more. Maybe if Nintendo's attempt works more big companies might try it but this has been an unresolved problem for a while now and its most likely not changing anytime soon.

[@Hlasd]

Pokemon look like cartoony animals. Does Nintendo own the rights to all cartoony animals?

[@vertsang5424]

they like to pretend they do

[@LoneGh0ste]

They’re gonna be suing Square when Kingdom Hearts IV comes out with Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck in the game. Wooboy Nintendo is gonna be furious.

[@cliffordkun2844]

Pokèmon doesn't own the monster taming genre.

[@TrixyTrixter]

Lots of people love to pretend they do yes.

[@AshDeGirl]

It declined in popularity because thats just the life cycle of a game, it happens to everything that isnt live service

[@Horvath_Gabor]

There's a much simpler explanation as to why the game hasn't seen an uptick: Palworld is a single player game. Yes, you can play it co-op, but it's not a live-service game. Chances are, the people who wanted a game like this and were interested in it already played it to death in those first few weeks/months, so even if it's back in the news cycle again, they have reason to go back. It's not like the game is nostalgic; it's less than a year old, so even if people are reminded, they would probably defend it, but not necessarily reinstall it to "relive the experience" or somesuch. Now, if they released a new content pack with big improvements and new mechanics and whatnot, that will get some of the old guard take another look, but I just don't agree with the idea that a single player indie game that was a combination of multiple different genres (monster catcher, base builder, survival, etc.) without doing anything spectacular with either one of them would necessarily need to stay in the cultural zeitgest for years to be considered "successful".

[@thezdude8512]

Elden Ring is also a single player non-live-service game.

[@Horvath_Gabor]

@@thezdude8512 And it's an RPG with hundreds of builds and a dedicated decades-old fanbase that religiously replays the game on higher difficulties over and over again. Not really comparable.

[@thezdude8512]

@@Horvath_Gabor Valheim has a similar concurrent playercount despite having a quarter of Palworld's peak.

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

@@thezdude8512 That's because Palworld goes mega-viral and Valheim didn't.

[@randomjhoni5993]

i think if they can turn it around into a "rules for a game cant be patented" palworld might clutch this one out

[@theFaros]

God I hate software patents

[@milksheihk]

5:52Patents don't last forever, typically 20 years for US registered patents & 15 years for patents registered elsewhere in the world.

[@Leo-ok3uj]

I guess is fine to hold innovation if is only for 20 years I am obviously joking

[@hanifarroisimukhlis5989]

You can pay for extension, and there are _shadier_ ways to evergreen that too. See: insulin.

[@milksheihk]

@@hanifarroisimukhlis5989 I think copyright & trademark are extendable. Patents aren't extendable specifically to prevent stagnation of technology, you can amend a patent but if you do that only the changes you made are protected for a new full patent term, the original iterations of the patented design or process still become licence free after the original 15-20 year period. Thing about patents is that you have to publish it(so people don't accidentally copy it), so military stuff is never patented to keep it a secret, short of capturing the technology & reverse engineering it.

[@logicerrormusic]

Problem is Disney of all people lobbied to oblivion the patent and copyright system for holding in their purchased IPs as long as possible. A patent should last 20 years, but are many the cases in which can be prolonged to more than one hundred, especially for the entertainment industry. Patents are enforced by petty, unfair, unimaginative corporate slime that cannot come up with something on their own and have to shut down competition to survive. Nintendo with this whole story just demonstrated how dated and out of reality really is, and if it wasn't for the Nintendo fanboys that company would have failed long ago.

[@Bonovasitch]

I'm personally more curious to see what Pocket Pair does next now that they've made their splash from Craftopia and Palworld, especially since their entire lineup thusfar has been clear attempts to make their name known. If/when they do ever make something they can call their own, I've a feeling it's gonna be a banger.

[@ausgod538]

Did you even read the announcement? Delist games? Bro it's a lawsuit for compensation of damages...

[@JungoFunko]

Yea, he doesn't know anything. He 'thinks', lol.

[@bigsyrup8567]

The virgin “Pokemon but with guns” The chad “My Digimon is MADE of guns”

[@autobotstarscream765]

Pocketpair should be making the Digimon games fr.

[@JDReC100]

Gundramon my beloved

[@bodaciouschad]

10:00 I disagree with your argument that palworld's playercount relative to elden ring indicate a lack of longevity. Elden ring just got a massive DLC. Palworld has only had one major update since release- and that was months ago.

[@bennyhoffa7648]

Everyone I know, myself included, put Pal World down pretty quickly. New articles were written about it. The developer made a statement about it. It's not exactly a secret that a lot of people got bored of Pal World. It's a fun game and has a ton of potential, but it's kinda shallow atm and the playercount absolutely reflects that.

[@bodaciouschad]

@@bennyhoffa7648 half of my coworkers under 40 took the release week off to 100% the game, so I get the impression that people are completing the game's content rather than getting bored. When sakujima came out everybody finished it by work the next day- the island barely contained 5 hours of content for players who had already completed the rest of the end game.

[@JDReC100]

​@@bennyhoffa7648 You expect a single player game to hold at least half of over 2 million concurrent players!? The player count it's had since isn't even that bad, especially for early access.

[@Volnas97]

lt would be funny if Palworld just changed balls to cubes, because they're not patented and it worked

[@DudeManDude-ot5fv]

I'm pretty sure they can just stop selling the game in Japan and they will be fine if they aren't violating local copy right law.

[@anggasurbakti8269]

The company still headquartered in Japan so they still need to follow Japan laws

[@vertsang5424]

@@anggasurbakti8269 then they could just more elsewhere.

[@犬まにまに]

Many Westerners criticize Nintendo and defend Pal World, but it's interesting that in Japan, it's the complete opposite. Many Japanese people hate Pocket Pair because they trampled on the unwritten rules that have been formed in Japanese business practices and a long culture of derivative works. Japan has the world's largest culture of derivative works, including doujinshi, but Nintendo and many other companies with famous IPs rarely sue these derivative works. It is very rare for them to be sued. As proof of this, many Pokemon copy games have been created, including games like Yo-kai Watch, which were huge hits and even had merchandise widely distributed, but they were not sued by Nintendo. They showed respect for the original and did not choose a design that "everyone would recognize as a Pokemon" nor did they treat the characters cruelly. Pal World completely ignored this rule in order to sell worldwide, and used Nintendo's popularity to add guns that Westerners would like and released a game like hunting Pokemon. In fact, if Pal's designs had been more original, like Digimon or Yo-kai Watch, and not similar to Pokemon's designs, the game would never have become so well-known worldwide. Thus Pal World has broken the delicate balance and unspoken promises between copyright infringement, lawsuits, and free creation that have been built up over the years between Japanese companies and the derivative creative community, which is something Japanese people hate the most.

[@zacharythomas8617]

Should have made a video.. useful information deserves money.

[@tonechild5929]

As someone who has owned a patent before (Not a lawyer) - at least in the US patents can't really stop you from creating something that is similar but different. IIRC something has to be considered at least "40% different from the original" - but that's up to the judge to decide, and if it comes to that it sets precedent and becomes common law. But usually people settle out of court so nothing is decided, and that doesn't set a precedent. Patent trolls have been a big problem in other industries, as most people don't want to fight a patent claim in court. On the other hand people that own legit patents have to spend money to defend them otherwise they lose legitimacy. It costs money to fight the legal battle and the one with th emost money has the advantage in battles like this. Settling out of court is probably what will happen and it'll be some agreement like nintendo gets a licesnse fee or they make changes..If that happens then no legal precedent gets set and the claim remains unchallenged.

[@cameronpower7814]

I think if this was any other company than Nintendo people would be more willing to admit that Pal World intentionally flirted with plagiarism to sell the game, likely due to a lack of want to innovate

[@michaeljebbett160]

Pokémon has been unappealing to me for almost a decade, and nothing about the franchise has given me hope that it'll improve anytime soon. And why should it? It's not like it has any real competition. Not for long, at least.

[@takatatsura]

One thing to consider also is the brand name of Pokemon itself, the fact that people were calling Palword "Pokemon with guns" may cause a banalization of the name "Pokemon" and this is leverage for the name itself beiing able to be used everywhere as seen with "Aspirin" in the US. This isn't foreign to Nintendo as they themselves had a campaign to make people stop using "Nintendo" as a synonym to "video games console" in the NES era (the "There's no such thing as a Nintendo" poster exists for this reason).

[@D3adCl0wn]

@@takatatsura Goodluck to Nintendo policing players on saying pokemon with guns.

[@Petrico94]

Palworld on it's own has a lot of problems, it's still clearly in beta and needs a lot more stuff to get people to come back and take it seriously. Still I like it had some success, PocketPair devs or other groups could learn from it on the stuff pokemon doesn't want to do or is just unwilling to branch into while Scarlet Violet feels janky.

[@0llyMelancholy]

"it's still clearly in beta" No shit, that's what "Early Access" means.

[@Petrico94]

@@0llyMelancholy Hey Toothbrush Chewer, if a game has a price tag it shouldn't lack an ending or feel like a proof of concept. That's the best I can give it, it's proof you can do a lot more with pokemon than Legends Arceus or other studios, even a really bad one, can be successful with their own monster collector. People are sick and tired of releasing unfinished games and fixing them later, and based on the updates so far I still wouldn't recommend buying it. Just gotta wait and see how the lawsuit goes and how much that delays the game. For that matter they have a dozen other works in progress they've given up on, we're still waiting to see if money can motivate them.

[@D3adCl0wn]

@@Petrico94 An EA release is still better than a kickstarter or a preorder where you get nothing for the same price.

[@Petrico94]

@@D3adCl0wn Man Anthem still sucks. That was allegedly finished and ready to work on future content. I feel bad for anyone who paid more than $25 on that. Palworld could get to $40 value or stay as the same halfbaked junk the studio has made. Regardless this doesn't guarantee better games it means EA makes more money, the people working to add microtransactions into everything and reboot FIFA every year so your loot boxes have zero value.

[@darthmaul7434]

John Carmack was the creator of the Quake Engine, he left the engine open source and free for anyone to use, eventually we would get games like Half Life 1 and many other First person shooters. Could you imagine what the fps industry would have looked like if John Carmack acted Nintendo?

[@rosedawg4584]

the nemesis system is my Roman Empire. im always thinking about how much better games would be if they just didn't patent that. I feel like assassins creed, GTA, red dead, ghost of Tsushima almost any game open world game could greatly benefit from it and it makes me depressed.

[@Egeslean]

Nintendo has no right to speak about anyone 'stealing' their designs, they stole designs from Dragon Quest.

[@Vova-xv3zn]

the biggest issue with pokemon is real lack of originality multiplied by what an utter s**t Scarlet and Violet were

[@gigitrix]

The lawyers told them they couldn't do it with copyright/trademarks, but clearly management demanded something happen. So now the software/design patent crypt has been unsealed and now the gaming industry which spent decades just acquiring them defensively is going to have to confront each other, to everyone's detriment

[@votekyle3000]

I literally forgot about palworld 😅

[@ThwipThwipBoom]

I haven't. I'm waiting for it to get a few more major expansions and then i'm going to do a second playthrough. I'll probably do a 3rd playthrough when the game finally releases from early access in a couple years.

[@vertsang5424]

Nothing wrong with it, it's in early access. Most fans are waiting for the next big content update

[@ReaperCet]

Palworld is in early access. People have checked out because the game isn't done yet. I loved it, but I probably won't jump back in until 1.0

[@donnylurch4207]

The Nintendo patent I've always been aware of and vexed by is the patent on the insanity effects from Eternal Darkness. They will never make a sequel or a remaster/remake of that brilliant game they own the rights to, but they'll be sure to sue anyone who puts out a cosmic horror game where your character losing their mind is reflected by the game messing with your UI or TV display.

[@cinnamonnoir2487]

It's funny too, because in Bubsy 3D (which unless I'm mistaken is the older game of the two) the main character will mess with your TV in much the same way while the game is paused, and that game is _also_ designed to destroy the player's sanity. Nintendo's damn lucky that these patents are based on filing date and not prior art.

[@multi-milliondollarmike5127]

In Japan, the US or both? Because in the US a patent isn't supposed to be granted to anyone if it's not novel, which means if it was done before, that would eliminate the novelty and disqualify the patent.

[@cinnamonnoir2487]

@@multi-milliondollarmike5127 I was mostly kidding. Bubsy 3D doesn't really have a sanity meter, so I don't think Eternal Darkness's system would count as infringement. Bubsy 3D is just so _bad_ it defies sanity. It is possible to challenge a patent application on the grounds of prior art in both countries, though. I'm not sure how feasible that is after the patent is granted.

[@IronWolf123]

The point of competition is that it revolutionises products making them go in certain directions because the competitor is on a similar path and they would do anything to make both sides divert while also being aligned. Pokemon is afraid of competition although their quality of games is waning and they don't want fans to acknowledge it. This is like suing marathon runners for running against you that follow similar yet different training strategies to win the race

[@joker-sh5hv]

Pal world should just take out patents on every mechanic Nintendo uses that they haven’t patented

[@MarvinPowell1]

Nintendo has patented _everything_ though. Also, you don't beat evil by being evil.

[@joker-sh5hv]

@@MarvinPowell1 you make it a pointless endeavor.

[@A.S._Trunks]

​@@MarvinPowell1You're right, you beat evil by being SUPER evil

[@sheicode3748]

Nintendo has a patent that basically is pressing buttons and having a character react on the input. They just can't use it because any judge would instantly overrule this patent

[@idrathernot_2]

​@@MarvinPowell1yes you do, company's stockpile bullshit patents for this very reason. You defeat evil by strangling it with its own weapons.

[@adamsfusion]

While I agree that Palworld is obviously a knockoff, it absolutely doesn't excuse Nintendo's legal menacing here. Sometimes knockoffs are better, like Oreos, and we let the market decide that, not silly "gameplay patents".

[@JDReC100]

Nice example. Most people don't even know hydrox exists.

[@compatriot852]

I honestly believe the whole apathy towards Palworld is the lack of content. There's no story to delve into nor any any depth in the world for that matter.

[@vertsang5424]

for now

[@fattiger6957]

Monsters being stored in tiny capsules and being released to fight was around decades before Pokemon. There was some tokusatsu show in the 70s (like one of the Ultraman spinoffs or something) where they hero would keep monsters in capsules and use them to fight enemies. Hell, the whole concept of Pokemon is inspired by a centuries-old hobby in East Asia of kids catching bugs to fight other kids' bugs.

[@LordOffal]

From my understanding there are a few famous patents in games. I believe one develop patented gameplay in loading screens which blocked that being a big thing. Another one which was a bigger deal was the “Nemesis” system from Lord of the Rings: Shadow of War series which was patented.

[@garf02]

Missing the tree by looking at the forest. The Industry is patented. Almost every game function is patented by someone. Thing is Industry has a gentlemen’s agreement to look the other side “You are breaching my patents and Im breaching yours” for super basic encompassing stuff. No company has decided to sue EVERYONE, in a patent case is brought up so far, its been Single note and personal. See Capcom vs Koei Tecmo

[@WobblesandBean]

This is so messed up. Nintendo stole the Pal World's company's mechanic first!

[@johannesspringinsfeld6381]

god, now i really want to see pokemon but it's postal.

[@mobiusevalon]

I'm surprised that no one has patented the process whereby a patent is filed for and received, to become the end boss patent troll

[@TioRata]

What's the problem with Palworld being a cheap knock-off if people bought it anyways?

[@OpheliaTerat]

Tbh I don't like Pocketpair or Nintendo. Pocketpair has a history of making games that get abandoned in early access and one of the founders said in an interview with Wired Japan that he doesn't care about originality and if there's a good idea he'll take it, which is why their games are just unoriginal mashups of other popular games. They're pretty much no better than triple-A game companies lol

[@spiderenigma2803]

they are still updating crafttopia,,,,

[@VelvetMagician]

Imagine a Pokemon game with soulsbourne mechanics

[@Gaia_Gaistar]

Why is Nintendo like this? I hate whenever a company patents gameplay mechanics, man. WB owning the Nemesis System from the Mordor games pisses me off.

[@brastionskywarrior6951]

“Its not about winning it’s about sending a message”

[@shakachoarroyo]

The whole "people want a Pokemon competitior" comes up often, but falls flat. Remember Yo-Kai Watch? It was exciting when it happened, but ran outta gas faster than a hummer. they say they want competition, but they don’t support it when it develops.

[@jessetorres8738]

Digimon > Pokemon.

[@alywafa3697]

Game or Anime? Because Digimon game worst that Pokemon game.

[@shawnnbits]

This guy gets it

[@kappadarwin9476]

@@alywafa3697 I actually liked Digimon World 1.

[@Marta1Buck]

The anime is legendary

[@MachineMindDesigns]

Too bad Bandai is just as terrible with it as Nintendo is with Pokemon if not worse since they barely acknowledge Digimon's existence.

[@angrybajur]

Whenever the legality of Nintendo's practices comes up and people say "This is just Nintendo complying with the law," I want to remind everyone that Nintendo lobbied for the implementation of many of those laws explicitly because they are advantageous for Nintendo.