The Reality Of Being a Pro Fighting Game Player

[@lordknightclips7878]

Watch the full original on @brian_F channel - kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWiknYWPpdWIasU (also pls subscribe) EDIT: Going to type this here before the comments start repeating themselves but - 1) I simply watch what gets submitted and react to it 2) On the money line. This unfortunately is a topic I am just very passionate about (as you can tell from me ranting). My comments on the matter are not saying that Xian does not know this, but sharing my thoughts in response to a statement, that's all. I am aware that Xian does a ton for his local community. Fighting games have had this money discussion for a really long time. Another commentator said I made "fairly big assumptions about his mindset" - if you think I'm making an assumption on his mindset, then I apologize. The things I said after come from me hearing similar statements + discussions from other people over a long period of time, it's why I try not to name drop when talking about these topics. Unfortunately, the topic and the perspective is more common than I would like, and it is something that deeply upsets me. It is also the main motivation for additional things I've started to do, like the invitational I ran recently.

[@misterkeebler]

I think an issue with this video is you're reacting to a reaction. So even though you've only seen a clip of the video of Xian, you're making some fairly big assumptions about his mindset since you're watching Brian F mostly focused on content creation. It isnt a good representation of what Xian was trying to say. Neither you or Xian even have opinions that differ much if you watch the actual vid. He is very aware of the importance of content...hence why he's working on VV and he streams as well. He also mentions how his new sponsor helped him greatly and hes still on the tourney grind. But brian's vid was mostly agreeing about the financial issues and how to truly make a living in the fgc, and you went further into acting as if Xian is only money focused. Just saying that i feel react vids like this would be better if reacting to the originals for context.

[@aveshlutchman8573]

Yeah, he seemed to take the most negative interpretation of Xian's opinion possible. It's pretty simple. Who can you expect better play from given all other things being equal: 1) A player who dedicates 100% of their time to honing their craft? 2) A player who splits their time between working a day to day to make ends meet while honing their craft? It's a rhetorical question. Xian is saying he wishes that he can be adequately rewarded for being a pro so that he can just focus on being a pro instead of all the side shit to keep himself afloat. Now, to address the aspect of content creation. LK should know it's not as simple as "just stream yourself". It's not a matter of only showing up for 2-3 hours a week/day, you need to pour more into it and also pour a lot of your attention span to chat. There are some exceptions where people will show up just to see you play like if you're Daigo and not everyone is Daigo. Lots of pros just don't have that and content creation just isn't their thing. You can actually end up wasting more time by trying to be a streamer because not everyone has the chops for it and you end up in a deeper hole. Regardless, whether you're succeeding as a content creator or not, it means you have to pour all these hours in side gigs that you're not actually interest/passionate about. This is the core issue, Xian seems to be expressing the opinion that he just wants to focus on the game and that's it. The thing is that this was somewhat achieved in other esports, but it came alongside franchising and the scene getting more corpo as a direct result. This is could be the reason why Xian has this POV, because he's seeing pros in other games (not FGC) able to focus on just their game and game alone. They still have marketing commitments as per regular sports, but they don't have to stream or do regular content creation themselves to keep themselves afloat. However, this is just for T1 leagues and not every pro.

[@duelme1234]

REACT ANDY BABY

[@pedroscoponi4905]

I feel like LK's approach to what being a professional FG player *means* reminds me a lot of, like, being a professional artist. Everyone wants to paint their Mona Lisa. Or get a big gallery expo and get critics and the audience to look at your work. You put time into the artform, you love it, you want to get really, REALLY GOOD at it and say something with that work. But the day to day of the job is commissions, selling prints and stickers, etc. Unless you have some 15th century style rich guy patron paying you to work on your masterpiece, that's just the reality of the job. I don't think I 100% _agree,_ I think there's definitely room for things to improve such that the money is spread out more evenly, and they should! But it's not like FG players are in this unique position when their "archetypal main job" isn't the thing the actually pays the bills.

[@NemSumeragi]

I was always of the opinion that nowadays, tournaments are a way to advertise your own content and brand. You're not going to tournaments to win money, you're going for the culture (first and foremost) and to get your name out there.

[@Gamevard]

As someone who doesn’t wanna make this a full time job but wants to get good at games, what do you think people waste the most time doing when they’re trying to even get good?

[@eliastew9636]

Tbh it’s kinda like being a working musician. Not a star or a top charts artist, but like a symphony player. Very skilled, but too niche of a field to really hit it big. Pretty much all musicians do lessons, it’s critical to living. Same goes for pro gamers and content, many do lessons too! If you’re a performer you always need more streams of revenue

[@beekoXOXO]

this coming from a 'sponsored' player who does live streams + things for local FGC just shows the whole Esport thing doesn't really work; like some other comment said here, use tourneys to get your name out there and use that to roll your own snowball Infact, this should have been obvious; every Esport is losing money, they have never turned a profit; Look at OWL, or LOL, DOTA, CS; viewership was/is high but they continue to bleed money all the time because the business model does not work. Use the fact that viewers become fans of players and not teams or organisations, to get your name out. Turn that into whatever business.

[@the0therethan]

my favorite part of these reactions is LK’s soundboard 😂😂😂

[@Daytimeprophet3]

I love his soundboard😂😂😂😂

[@free_playstation_2]

yessir

[@dangerousshoes]

The fucking "EWWW" lives rent free in my head

[@as95ms98]

Yessir yessir yessir

[@nrdscott]

The FGC prize pools are a literal joke by comparison to other genres of esports and there's no copium in the world that can change that. League, Overwatch, DOTA, Fortnite, etc all make more money for their players in a year than Evo has all-time. That needs to change

[@nrdscott]

And the pros in other games still do things like making content, etc. It's okay to advocate for more money for the scene and still doing all of the intangibles that people don't consider.

[@numa2k147]

While I do agree with you, Xian is a player who is putting in work content creation wise. And I still agree with him, it's frustrating to put all your eggs in a single basket and not be rewarded for it, I can understand him.

[@BeTReZeN1]

I am casual player that sometimes watches tourneys and I would say, that streams-VODs from players are beneficial for me to learn the characters AND to see a human behind the game. Yes, video making is not everyone's skill, but just streaming playing ranked-custom matches is beneficial for viewers in learning the game and about the player whom playstyle caught your attention in tourneys and some event. And to convert your equipment for games into streaming platform is not expensive (unless you want The Best quality from the start) in context of other hobby/work entries cost.

[@Living_Target]

I remember an old story in melee about a guy somewhere who was technically up by being the best in his region, having like a 95% tournament winrate by farming locals and regionals and never traveling, just saying it wasn't worth it for him. I love the game and I love traveling even though I suck but I can respect the hustle.

[@jozsva8064]

People be saying "we don't make enough as a pro player" meanwhile they're traveling all over the world for tourneys every month or so, and just let their KZbin channels die on the side, uploading 6 hour vods with no editing and thinking that's good enough, or one upload every 3 months or so, and then sit and wonder why they're not growing.

[@DerpHerper]

You know when he mentioned that Japanese league it reminded me: Starcraft Broodwar pros have something called "Proleague" where they all put up some money and ask viewers to donate. Have a little competition between themselves. It's content, it draws eyes, it gets money in pockets, keeps interest up. And they all stream at the same time, money on money man. Someone's gotta get that running for fighting games.

[@ssbmAndy]

Really liking your videos man , love the discussion. I'm 15yrrs in to smash melee so this is all in my realm.

[@Cezkarma]

What do you mean that people want money to fall on them like rain? You're either not understanding or purposefully misrepresenting Xian's point. He's saying that as a pro you can dedicated almost all of your time to tournaments and getting as good as possible, and in the end very few pros can actually make a living from being a tournament player alone. LK, do you really think your life would be the same right now if you relied solely on tournament results instead of your KZbin and Twitch channels?

[@Dopamine_Drop]

The only difference between fgc pro and being a pro athlete is that an athlete gets the livable salary (admittedly has to be popular enough) first from being able to compete THEN they try to milk the media appearances for what they can in the free time. Now, what youre saying certainly has merit- no doubt. However, that difference is fundamental imo.

[@zegim]

It's wild to react as if Xian is a player that doesn't know how to be a pro, as if he hasn't been a high level player for over 15 years and is constantly helping grow the FGC in his own country. As someone else said, react to the original video, not to the reaction.

[@Farside-sd8tj]

I don't understand how it's unreasonable to want an ecosystem where our best players can make a comfortable living solely off their skill alone. You shouldn't be forced into becoming a streamer or youtuber. Saying "it's part of the job" is kind of bullshit and more or less exactly what Xian was trying to argue is the downside of the current status quo. The whole "fgc should stay broke for the love of game" mindset is boomer af. There is no reason for the best players in the world to be making pennies with the amount of current exposure the fgc is getting.

[@ckorp666]

but it's rare to see examples of top players making a living off of playing alone w/o a sugar daddy investor in the red. esports is not a real industry, else they wouldn't have to cozy up to a dictator that sentences gay ppl to the sword to pay the bills

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

​@@ckorp666Have you ever heard about football? Premier league and stuff?

[@ckorp666]

@@АртёмТор-к2ю have u ever compared viewership numbers between street fighter tournaments and the national pastime of an entire continent?

[@ckorp666]

@@АртёмТор-к2ю have you campared the viewership stats of street fighter tournaments against the national pastime of the entire european continent?

[@eliastew9636]

I compare it to being a symphony musician, you should be able to make a living, but the moneys not there so they all do lessons. It’d be great if the ecosystem let them just focus on their art, but that’s now how it works

[@CF565]

One thing i think would be really beneficial to the scene would be for payouts to be less top-heavy for the major tournaments. Capcom Cup finals dropping off to just 10k and 5k while top 1-4 got six figures is super rough. There needs to be a more generous gradient to support the field. Look at golf and tennis, the major open-tourney individual sports- the prize pools are much more evenly distributed through the placements. Also, Evo being such a low prize, for all placements, is an embarrassment.

[@TonyJenn]

Evo is an event that's dedicated to the hardcore fgc community, which while growing, is minute compared to greater majority of consumers. It doesn't compare most sports tournaments when it comes to prize pools. It doesn't generate nearly that much revenue. Unless it starts approaching that level, The revenue split will likely never be that big. That's why you see a lot of FGC pros get into content creation. The prize money from tourneys is not consistent or reliable to this day unless you're the cream of the crop.

[@mariocruz6599]

I think Xians main problem is how the games work now and he feels anyone can beat him no matter how much better he is

[@madeleine-bell]

i guess the question becomes: if you want to be a pro player, but aren't built for content creation, should we just have less people playing the game professionally? obviously that benefits existing pros, but it's worse for the scene as a whole. i feel like we should be prioritizing the health of the scene over the "reality" of the job. especially because, again, i'm someone who watches dota - i know sumail's story damn well. it doesn't have to be this way, and i don't understand why it *should* be that way.

[@Holesale00]

I feel like branching out into more things is always the ez option here, diversity can lead to better stability financially. Wanting to get paid to do the one thing feels very narrow minded and eventually that 1 thing will go away every 2 - 4 years not a very future forward mindset.

[@612minigun]

I need lord knight to react to some Asumsaus vids on melee jank

[@hjblacdes61]

2:58 true!

[@__rezin__7819]

This is not unique to fighting games.

[@macrosyokai8044]

This vid is such a miss LK...

[@CantHandleThis6]

Bro can't have an opinion??? He hasn't said anything that wild

[@macrosyokai8044]

@@CantHandleThis6 hes misrepresenting what xian said to rant on something else thats bothering him. when if you actually hear what theyre all saying, they are actually agreeing. just as you are trying to misrepresent my comment. i didnt say he couldnt have an opinion. in fact i didnt even say anything close to that.

[@cam0x195]

​@@macrosyokai8044 hmmm

[@KeshavKrishnan]

@@macrosyokai8044could you elaborate on what Xian's point is? I am not entirely sure and want to understand what you're saying

[@macrosyokai8044]

@@KeshavKrishnan xian said quite literally what brian and lord knight were saying. that solely being a player is not sustainable or even viable. its that simple. however this video turned it into "people just want it for free". which frankly isn't even remotely true for xian. LK in this video saying things like "people want it for free" or "just do better" and even telling him to accept making content/being on social media is kinda ridiculous. in fact its massively disrespectful. Of course Xian knows this, hes saying as much in the video. But Lk ran with some totally different assumptions, presumably from people who actually do think that way. However hes letting it represent itself on someone it just doesn't apply to.

[@108Fire]

A couple of things, I imagine for a lot of players getting to play fighting games for a living is a dream come true, but if it can’t pay the bills and it becomes something you dislike (content creation) why not get a regular job that you will dislike just as much but with better, more stable income? Secondly, just as the tournament scene cant support many top players (at least with the current payout structure) if everyone starts to get into content creation eventually wont there be not enough eyeballs to watch them all?

[@krasmazov009]

I have spent so much time learning songs, practicing with the band. Listen, relisten, gel with people. For the promoter to pay you shit money. Why are we doing this? Is it for the love of the game or is it about cash? If it's about the cash, with your skills you can monetize it. PS: LK is not washed. He just as some salt in his pepper

[@loto7197]

From my perspective, its amazing that anyone can make 1500 per month just from playing fighting games at a super high level. When i was a kid, nobody could make a living playing games. Give it time and the prize pools for fighting games will grow, its just slow.

[@JimmiePitts]

ive been saying this for YEARS, if you wanna live off of games especially in the fgc, then understanding the game, photoshop, obs and premier pro are REQUIRED or your throwing... YOUR LIFE AWAY

[@onthedre]

I don't think fighting games should be main source of income... If it can be that's excellent but it shouldn't be.

[@chrisludwig4729]

FG companies never promised anyone that they'd make a good living off of playing their games professionally. Xian is a great, great player, but he chose this profession knowing full well the pros and cons. Yeah, it's wild that you have a job where a few RPS interactions or untimely drops can literally cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars, but that's the life you chose. Think about Olympic althletes, many of whom will live in near poverty for years, all for 2 or 3 chances their entire career to make a name for themselves. These are not stable professions.That's precisely why you need to build up something more stable to complement it.

[@wilmofosho]

Brah... 90% of people in the Olympics have fuckin day jobs lol. This concept of im a pro at this thing so i dont need any other income source? I saw someone complaining they dont make enough money from their half decent nature videos as if you just should? Are you on the nba team? Are you the main actor in the movie? Ok then, you should be doing your hobbies because you love them not bc you think you should make enough money?

[@Doc_Fun]

He's not saying that, he's not bashing content creation either. Both Xian and Mike Ross have been on that grind for a while now. What he's saying is that the incentives are WAY skewed towards content creation, so skewed that it causes players to question the purpose of even prioritizing being good. It's not exclusively about getting the bag, but you also have to be realistic about time/money ratios. I think there's a reason that the biggest fgc creators on youtube are (mostly) like b-tier players.

[@tweedybird3404]

God I fucking love Lk man love his mindset

[@lokomo]

Man I love this LK so much. This is the LK I've been missing on the main channel

[@SaltiestSalem]

you made 500 a month off of your hobby in ONE DAY and complain? (with travel expenses probably a net minus but) i understand it'd be great to be a full time pro player but it's just not gonna happen right now. play for fun, for sport for sure the prize pools should be spread more evenly, tho

[@bahaman19901]

to be fair "one day" is a misnomer: given the relative rarity of tournaments with large prize pots, and the amount of hours put into it, that $500 could be coming from like a month of consistent practice and stress (not to mention that to get to this level you had to put in years without any compensation) saying you make $500 in one day ignores all of the effort needed, if you slip up on practice you just lose every time.