Villains Who Were Right

[@Mangakamen]

Be sure to leave a like and comment to support the channel - What villain do you think was in the right?

[@Fairywhisker]

I'm mostly of the opinion that, Ganondorf was in the right, granted he's a hard sell since all the Ganondorf up until tears are the same, so we have seen all the bad he can do. Maruki, I think he was right to an extent, but rather then cresting a fake world, it's best to make the world a better place in reality. But to play devil's advocate, technically what he is doing isn't all that different from a religious perspective, he simply is remaking the world, rather then making it a false reality, as he does state the world would be as real as any other, if I remember correctly, and that's really no different from god creating a world, or the goal of rhe protagonist from SMTV, so it wouldn't be that bad. (If I play devils advocate)

[@insectostrich4407]

I think Silco from Arcane is a pretty good one. If you haven’t watched it, go watch it before reading this. His actions are cruel and he doesn’t care how many people he sacrifices to achieve his dream of building his nation. However, it’s a result of Piltover never listening and silencing anyone who opposes their lives of luxury. He believes that as long as you die for his cause and not in the gutter it’s a worthy sacrifice; and scaring Piltover into submission is the way to win. Which in the end actually worked! He would’ve had all of his demands realised as long as he gave them Jinx.

[@hilgigas09]

If you want a lot of comments say anything about Fire Emblem or Dragon Age.

[@bearberserker]

Maruki from Royal due to how he is right to a point. He is right about how pain and strife can cause a person to go through a lot of trauma that they may not be able to push forward. The counterpoint is that Maruki's delusional world creates stagnation while people are at peace; they don't strive to overcome or become stronger than the person they were. He stops people from moving forward, which he needs due to what happened to his girlfriend or what happened with Sumire.

[@Cieloacestriker]

Grifith jk jk

[@edwinvanderhaeghen2221]

To play defense of Oogway: the fact Tai-Lung reacted the way he did to being told he was not the Dragonwarrior, proved Oogway's point, even if I he was given the title. Tai-Lung was trained too hard, martial-arts was his life at that point, he lived to fight, rather than fight to live. Shifu basically said it himself: "I was too blinded by my love for you, to see what I was turning you into." By the time Oogway shared the news it was already too late.

[@DangerDan64]

You can summerize the ones that did this out of revenge to say with this one line. "YOUR LIFE'S MISERIES, DO NOT JUSTIFY YOUR ACTIONS!" Because anyone taking it out on the innocent, for others' wrongdoings to you, immediately loses any forms of being in the moral right. Because it makes look no better than the ones who caused the problems in the first place.

[@marley7868]

my favoriite part is when the smart enough to call out the villian on this "so you were wronged or you can see horrible actions coming and your solution to this connundrum is kill more people in worse ways? does that sound like a hero to you?"

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

You summarize it Perfectly.

[@HaKilly]

This is "Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse" trope

[@Nazo-kage]

There’s a very interesting piece of information that’s kind of gloss over when talking about Tai Long. His confrontation with Shifu. Until that moment, everything you learn about him is mostly through second and thirdhand accounts. That his actions were solely because he was denied the dragon scroll. Well, that definitely was a big point to his actions. There’s one other even bigger part. His father figure did not fight for him. When Oogway said no. Shifu just bowed his head and walked away. The same teacher that spent years telling him that he was destined to be the dragon warrior. You can’t even really cry and blame Oogway with this. Master Shifu was stuck in a philosophy that meant your master is always right, and you must do whatever he says without any contradiction. That’s why he doesn’t try and fight for his son to be dragon warrior. But this was an action that Tai long saw as a betrayal and weakness.

[@CaptainSilvaRex]

Reading this comment made me realize why people saying Tai Long was right never sat well to me. It’s the equivalent of a dad telling his son that he will be the Captain of the football team at his alma mater. Trains him for his whole life to be the best at football and when the coach says no, they usually both throw a hissy fit. I don’t know if it’s just me looking at it from a different angle, but Tai Long feels like a spoiled kid who was finally told no and the dad didn’t coddle him. Sure, Shifu could have done way better, but Tai Long was still acting like a child who didn’t get what he wanted.

[@lpfan4491]

The way I see it, he was fine until he learned the whole truth twice from both Shifu and Po and then decided to stay the way he was. He had the perfect opportunity to get off the hook and choose a better road in life, but he just didn't. And that proves a poor character more than lashing out in the first place does.

[@Nazo-kage]

@@CaptainSilvaRex part of that unfortunately, comes from the fact that he literally was taught nothing else. He was told from the moment he showed an inkling of skill in kung fu that he was destined for greatness so that obviously meant he’d be the dragon warrior. Shifu was literally trying to live vicariously through his son because he wanted to be dragon warrior when he started out but eventually wanted to settle for training the dragon warrior. I’m not trying to defend Tai long he still made his choices. But they were choices that he felt were all he had. You can call it a hissy fit, but if you spend your entire life for a single goal and never achieve it, that’s going to hurt significantly. If you spend your entire life training for something that you are never allowed to achieve. Then what is there left? It’s why some kids who spend all their lives, wanting to be a football player if an accident happens and they’re gonna lose their leg. They’d rather die because they’re entire life has only ever been to play pro football.

[@joseguadalupemartineztorre9702]

​​@@Nazo-kageSeparately, and I'll argue over this: the villagers deserved Tai Lung attacking them. We've seen that the villagers aren't good people; in both the movies and series, they heckle and taunt Po and other martial artists. They laughed at Po when he was chosen, heckled him when they had to evacuate because of Tai Lung, they actively criticize Po trying to be better, and demean the heroes when they fail. We've seen that TL was by himself during his training, no friends, barely seen his family, his only support was Shifu; the title wasn't just something that he expected, he needed it to show the village that he was the greatest. After finding out that he wasn't the DW, he had no one to soothe him, and the villagers were definitely going to openly mock him. It wasn't just Shifu letting him down, it was also the villagers kicking him while he was down. Tai Lung was just one of the first times we witnessed a failed hero, take his anger out on the ungrateful. How many times before he was rejected did he help protect the village? How many times was he injured for the sake of one day hearing the crowd respect him? He did everything for a title meant for Strength and Protection, only for those he was supposed to protect to mock him?

[@bigyoshi5170]

Senator Armstrong was right the whole time, we were just too busy fretting over every egg to realise it.

[@slowkabal]

He makes a damn good omelet if I do say so myself!

[@sdbzfan1]

He was right, he was just also insane Which is why he had to go down

[@Toby-Wan_Kenobi]

​@@sdbzfan1 He was also a total hypocrite

[@vengefulforces7395]

Right that things need to change, wrong in the method and extremity

[@thunderflare59]

Nice argument. Mind backing it up with a source?

[@blackmark2899]

Ganondorf may've started off wanting what as best for his people the Gerudo but the moment he got the power he sought, the winds he coveted so much, he left them in the dust being no better off than any other denizen of Hyrule. It shows that at his core, he didn't really care for the Gerudo. He bore the title of their king because it was convenient and came with power. What Ganondorf wanted was power, and the moment he got it, he used it to only enrich himself. He never once enriched the Gerudo.

[@twinzzlers]

Exactly

[@viniciushenrique6672]

Well, he IS the incarnation of the Demon King Demise's hatred for those with the blood of the Goddess and the spirit of the hero. So its in his very essence to be evil, both in body, mind and soul.

[@DarkIceKrabby]

Yep, Nintendo gave Ganondorf a tiny bit of depth in Wind Waker and fans took that as being the Mariana Trench.

[@twinzzlers]

@@DarkIceKrabby Not really depth, he was just being manipulative

[@Actively_Schizoing]

Vigilante protagonist is such a great archetype. Even if you don't agree with the character you want them to succeed so the story doesn't end too early.

[@kindasomeviews]

_Frank Castle enters the chat_

[@lisboah]

Light/Kira was right about his goal. The problem was that he was wrong that only he could make a better world. Light was petty, sadistic, and childish. A guy that killed people just because they insulted him, that made a woman commit suicide and then mock her for no reason other than sadism, that treated the people that were loyal to him as tools, and even insulted his father after the latter's death was not worthy of reenacting justice and become god.

[@marley7868]

I mean deathnote is not about morality everyone init is a b*stard they all deserve the chair deathnote is a cat and mouse game between two arrogant psychos who are totally willing to trample others and the morality the claim to have to win it's about winning

[@topcat59]

It does make me curious if light would still behave this way if he was older and more mature.🐱

[@SamsarasArt]

Not to mention it's naive

[@marley7868]

ehh let's be honest the series is about a cat and mouse game everyone who talks about morals and stays around is a hypocrite the cops frequently break the law whilst talking about the law L is no better than kira hell when he's mind wiped light is the voice of reason and compassion and no going crazy it's about winning that's all its about

[@historicflame972]

@@marley7868 Yeah, what people don't talk about with L is that the dude is horrible He beat up friendly kids as a child to make it clear who was boss and has made it pretty clear he only takes cases if they can provide a challenge, rather than to stop bad people Expanded material also reveal he was a lil' bit of wacko and signed off on stuff to create the next L, procedures so bad that the first guy offed himself and the second became a killer The only thing keeping L out of villainy is that working to stop criminals was more interesting

[@thatguymatt5816]

“The road is paved to hell with good intentions”. You got so close with that one 😂😂

[@sdbzfan1]

The road to hell is paved in good intentions

[@HunterAnsorge-ok9jk]

Im from the Government and I’m here to help!

[@billnyetheaquaticfly]

The road to intentions is paved in good hell

[@bahesb2419]

Another thing i like about "villain with noble goals" thing is how even the hero sympathise with the villain. It's shows how things aren't black and white when even the hero understand why the villain does what he does but still stop them because they know what they do isn't right. It also makes a interesting dynamic with both the hero and villain understand and care for eachother but still fight for what they believe is right( like joker vs maruki or proffesor x vs magneto).

[@12DAMDO]

friendly reminder: if you ever have a "wait a second, Light was right" moment, remember that Matsuda exists and why his character works so well within the narrative of what Death Note is about..

[@De_La_Evo]

This is why despite the last act's flaws the ending is still nigh-flawless to me. All characters really do come to a satisfying conclusion, Matsuda was the perfect surrogate for someone who *actually* unapologetically wants to do the right thing

[@aliciastokes9897]

Mangakamen +villians that are right = garentteed senator Armstrong appearance with the first song playing being FREAKING COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS

[@Simpsonsfan1011]

I think both Light and Thanos both have something in common where they had good intentions but went about them horribly in their methods that we fully see play out Light because he would kill anyone who doesn't cater to his ego or make him look bad along with the strong possibility he killed a lot of innocent people given how many people are wrongfully convicted. Thanos is right about the scarcity of resources but a lot of resources are hoarded and there are better methods than committing half omnicides!

[@historicflame972]

It goes further than that, both are using their goals as a façade... to cover their egos Light never wanted do good really, he just wanted to decide who got to live or die Thanos was wrong and deep down he probably knows it, or he really is just that mad; his crusade isn't about saving anyone, it's about proving that he was right, that his people were fools for not listening to him

[@quarreneverett4767]

​@@historicflame972honnestly the case with light. Sometimes you have to accept what needs to be done and fill the dirty role. He starts witha aimple question everyone has asked. What if bad people were gone. What if this vad person decided to leave or dissapeared. With fear in his heart abd mind. After certain events he embraced it. Someone has to be the garbage man. There is also alot more going on as well. Some of it he had to do as a cover. But really L pressured him on purpose for the rhrill of a rival. Also counting on him doing it more to try and be a cover. Kira did have an impact we see. Its undortunate there was some causaulties caught. Even L talked about how the crims were crims without a doubt he went after. But it started changing the more he pressured him to try and have a cover and throw him off. Whoch brings up the question. If L didnt exist alot of things wouldnt have gotten the way. The second season always feels odd. Things get twisted. Contrived and forced. The dirst season L made it abojt the joy of the cat and mouse. Nier came up being like okay i won. By some weird happen stance out of character. I consider the first season the best part. Second is interesting in a vacuum in a different way

[@quarreneverett4767]

You see several cases where the person has to fill the role to do it or sell it. If people knew kira was just a guy he wouodnt be able to hve an impact on crime. Like bat man. Batman takes the form of fear. An icon more so than a person. Kira does same thing. He isnt dumb

[@anubis7457]

@@quarreneverett4767 Light wanted to create a world free from criminals, sure. But much more than that, he wanted to be the God of such a world. That's the whole point of becoming "Kira." And remember... he doesn't JUST want to target criminals. That's just to start with. He literally said once all the criminals are gone, he'd start targeting the "lazy" and "rude" people, who haven't actually done anything legally or morally wrong, but that he thinks don't fit in to his society. And maybe you agree with that too, but remember.... LIGHT is the one who determines when a person isn't "good enough." Spending a bunch of time on the internet would probably be enough for Light to consider you lazy and undesirable. And that's ignoring the many innocent people whom he killed, unnecessarily, in pursuit of this goal. A lot of dead cops and FBI agents just doing their jobs, and frankly if he HADN'T killed them, L would have had a harder time finding him.

[@quarreneverett4767]

@@anubis7457 no i dont agree and things did change as they went. However several of them were being driven by other forces. He didnt just randonly decide to do that. I am just trying to have an interesting co conversation

[@RogueFox2185]

While he certainly wasn’t in the right during the war I think Megatron can fit into this as well, (depending on the continuity) as most of his kind that would make up the Decepticons were either miners, menial laborers or just used for entertainment via gladiatorial combat. (Contrast that with the Autobots who focused more on exploration, art and technological advancements.) He did wanted mutually beneficial reforms between his kind and the Autobots, which of course Orion Pax very much agreed with him. However because he was so impatient with getting those results, (along with his ego and anger eventually getting the better of him) it led Megatron to creating a centuries-long civil war with the Autobots that eventually led to their homeworld shutting down.

[@magenstaffarts]

Agreed. I was going to say that this was one of those ones I agreed.

[@CrestORazors]

@@RogueFox2185 Oh yeah. Megatron (at least certain versions of him) is a good example of a villain who was right

[@scramblerbricks7293]

You need to talk about villains who absolutely love being villains, they're usually the most fun ones

[@sdbzfan1]

Like Frieza

[@bahesb2419]

​@@sdbzfan1or joker

[@bahesb2419]

Boy that whould be awesome cause the list of examples is long. Like very, very long. We have: Frieza, Dio, Big Jack Horner, The Joker, Dick dasterdly, Negaduck, Black hat, Bill cipher, bowser, Dr eggman, Dr. Evil, etc.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Debatable

[@juicemanofficial6151]

Ryomen Sukuna. Hes not even a particularly deep character (at least not in the eyes of most) but he's ridiculously fun to watch for me bc he just LOVES causing mayhem and styling on his foes while doing it. Idk if I've seen a villain take more delight in kicking ass and taking names. And he doesn't even give a shit about conquest or inciting any kind of world shifting movement or achieving a grand ideal; he just wants to fuckin flex on people, then eat them. Straight up DEMON

[@luigiboi4244]

One good villain that I’d like to bring up is The Riddler in The Batman (2022). Chronologically he begins as a simple accountant, who just so happens to stumble across the Gotham Renewal Fund that was set up by the Wayne family to help the citizens, and the dark revelation that criminal families like Carmine Falcone have been using it to amass power. Combining this knowledge with the fact that Riddler is a nobody who wanted to be somebody as well as being inspired by The Batman, he dons the Riddler persona to expose this corruption in the most eye-catching criminal acts ever seen. For the entire movie he thinks he and Vengeance (Almost nobody calls him Batman, it’s hilarious) are on the same page, dishing out vigilante Justice without acknowledging the problems. However Riddler takes it too far by murdering his victims, sending clues to his “friend”, and planning one of the most horrifying terrorist attacks I’ve ever seen in film history. Riddler is in the right for trying to expose the criminal corruption within Gotham City, however his insecurity and instability absolutely paint him as the villain and end the movie with him in Arkham Asylum and The Batman now a symbol of hope to the citizens as well as a symbol of terror to the criminals of Gotham.

[@coreenforcer6404]

I'm so happy to see someone else who appreciates that movie as much as I do

[@Shylunar64]

I've mentioned this character before but one of them is Mustache Girl from A Hat in Time. She was right because she was just trying to reclaim her home from the mafia. However her actions were wrong because messing with the time pieces and becoming judge, jury, and executioner was truly when she was in the wrong.

[@captainhuntank7963]

The main problem ive noticed with villains who's ideology is basically "the strong survive and the weak perish" is from a comment i saw about Invincible and the viltrumites, that being in a free for all battle, whats gonna stop the weak ones from grouping up and jumping the stronger ones, leaving only the weaker ones in charge and not those who actually were strong

[@CrestORazors]

Magneto was in the right. Humanity treated him horribly, but he himself went about his motivations in a way paved through blood.

[@renantemerin9248]

Yup us humans did sexual things, did all this for money, fueling pur egos and acting liek they are gods when we are rich

[@StevetheWizard2591]

There's a quote I like: "Venom is an example of a villain who evolved into a hero because he was popular with readers and writers decided to rehabilitate him. By contrast, Magneto evolved into a hero because every decade since Reagan it's harder and harder to pretend he's wrong."

[@CrestORazors]

@@renantemerin9248 What the fuck are you on, brotha?

[@kiracaroso]

@@StevetheWizard2591 Yeah, that sounds about right...

[@ericquiabazza2608]

"Be treated like an animal long enough, and you begin to belive it" Either become Suvmisive or get rabies Same with slaves. Some adapt, and even sell out others Other lash out, kill and scape

[@dreamer1292]

I think people forget that wind waker ganondorf it literally the same person as ocarina o time ganondorf, when you pay more attention to that then his mentioning of taking over hyrule being more of a "personal endeavor" really shows. remember what he did in oot: he sabotaged every single race and civilization in the kingdom, cursed their lands, killed leaders, fed citizens to monsters and betrayed allies. hyrule was at peace after a great civil war over the triforce, all races were on established friendly terms and ganondorf ruined it. the gerudo were not oppresed or even suffering, they were thriving and on friendly relations with the hylians, even letting them work on their borders and establish a bridge for passage, they even could freely travel across the land and request auditons with the king of hyrule (which ganondorf exploited quite well). ganondorf ruined all that, got the triforce, got the cipital and the throne and what did he do? he turned the capital into a wastland, turned the civilians into undead, made even worse curses to wipe out the other civilizations, rulled the mainland with an iron fist and left his people in the desert while making sure his 2 mothers kept oppressing his own civilization with mind control. ganondorf did nothing for his people, he did everything for himself, for power, no wonder his demon form is a giant mad board, he is a gluttnous pig with no room for redendption or even understanding. in ww he is not regretting his actions, he is coping to the fact that when he managed to take over the land again, the very god rejected his ruled and decided to flood the land rather than let him rule even if he had won, which is why he is obsessed with bringing back hyrule, he wants to bring back "his land" while everyone else wanted to just move on, ww ganondorf is just trying to justify his rage against the gods when he 100% knew his speech about coveting winds was BS, it was just sheer cope over the fact that the world rejected his evil ways even when he played by the rules.

[@lpfan4491]

Not "everyone" wants to move on tho. Many people simply don't know and iirc, the Koroks prove that people most likely would be positive about Hyrule coming back if they did know.

[@dreamer1292]

@@lpfan4491 the koroks do know, the deku tree tells them that, heck the point of their seed spreading ritual is to generate more land, but they don't wanna bring back hyrule, they just want More land

[@Shindoun]

Glad to see someone talk about Master Asia, one of the greatest villains of the Gundam franchise, and he absolutely is right with how the Gundam Fight is affecting the world, though as said by one of the characters in the final episode, it is better than full out war and that it could take a long time to find a better solution. And N is also one of the villains done well and who also got to redeem himself in the end. Not a lot of other Pokémon villains who gets to be as well written as him.

[@fishnewt1331]

Hot-take: I don’t believe a word of Ganondorf’s motivation spoken in Wind Waker. He had plenty of time to bring his people out of the desert. Instead, he plunged Castle Town in ruins and left his people in the desert for seven years AFTER getting the Triforce of Power and ruling Hyrule. What I do see is a man who tricked the King of Hyrule to get close enough to ambush the kingdom (and waited for two children to open the door to ultimate power) use those same smarts again to try to trick two more children. Or at the very least try to make them doubt their motivations.

[@historicflame972]

I honestly think he was speaking the truth, the point of the game is that he's still clinging to what was, to the old world, to the old zelda as a franchise It's about letting go and moving onto the next thing, and he just couldn't do that

[@lordxmugen]

@@historicflame972 he already had the triforce of power. Link was trapped (?) in an alternate dimension while searching for Navi. The point of Zelda is Ganon is a thief and always will be. When has what he wants, he takes something else. Thats all he knows how to do and he never does anything useful with the tools he does have.

[@historicflame972]

@@lordxmugen Are we still talking about Wind Waker's climax?

[@lordxmugen]

@@historicflame972 yeah.

[@ECKohns]

I was rooting for L to stop Light from the second Light killed Ray Penber and several FBI agents. I HATE Light Yagami.

[@bahesb2419]

Friendly request: Considering halloween is going to come soon, can you do a "villains done right" Video on a classic horror icon please( they can come from horror movies, video games, KZbin or even creepypasta). That whould be very cool and nice.

[@marley7868]

that'd be cool

[@bahesb2419]

​@@marley7868Out of pure curiosity which horror Icon do you wish whould get a "villains done right" video and why?

[@videogamerzero1schannel]

Glad to see you back with an interesting topic, especially with the villains that have a right goal & I'm glad Stain from My Hero Academia was featured but let me talk about my choices that I believe were in the right Malos/Amalthus from Xenoblade 2, Oersted from Live A Live & Duke from Tales of Vesperia, apologies if I'm grouping them but it's because they technically have the same motivation but I'll talk about them individually starting with Amalthus & Malos, Amalthus was a man that grew to hated the world after all the wrongs it brought him in his life, his mother died, he once helped people only to realize he helped killers that ended up killing more people & climbed the world tree hoping to see the architect only to found nothing but 2 Core Crystals being Malos & Pneuma which he awakened Malos, a Blade that inherited Amalthus's hate for the world & decided to give him what he wants by destroying the world since he hates it so much, however Malos grows uncertain if that's what he himself really wanted but in the end, follows his programming since that's what Blades are like, they inherit traits from their drivers & Malos taken the hate Amalthus felt for the world after it brought him & other countless suffering, why he felt his god abandoned the world, which is why he did so many messed up actions believing it'll be saved, then we get to Oersted from Live A Live, which he was the hero that was gonna get the Princess after winning his fight against his friend, Streibough but after that, his Princess gets captured by a Demon King & rounding up a party consisting of him, Streighbough, Uranus & a former hero against said Demon King, Hasshe, they face the Demon King defeated him only to see the chamber crumbling as they leave except for Streighbough & Hasshe, who has died but they returned to the kingdom, after slaying the Demon King but it turns out, the Demon King lives! Oersted was ready & slayed the Demon King but Oersted killed the king of the kingdom labeling Oersted a wanted man for killing the king that Oersted mistakenly killed due to the illusion & gets captured alongside Uranus but Uranus believes the Demon King is still out there & knows Oersted is innocent freeing him at the cost of his life, where Oersted goes back to the Demon King's castle & then finds his friend now enemy Streighbough that he casted the illusion due to jealously for Oersted getting to win the Princess & not him & decided to gaslight society by labeling Oersted a villain, which after a battle, Oersted killed Streighbough saving the princess only for the to be in love with Streighbough after being kidnapped & decided to off herself, leaving Oersted destroyed after losing the one person he loved lost faith in him alongside the entire kingdom leaving him alone until he decided to become the Timeless Demon King of Hatred, Odio to teach humanity a lesson for loosing faith to him & saw them at their worst decides to end the world for their actions through multiple incarnations of Odio throughout time, now finally we have Duke from Tales of Vesperia, Duke before the events of the game was a hero from the Great War that involved humans & Entelexeia which he fight with an Entelexeia, named Elucifur, believing humans & creatures can live in peace & while they won the war, humans still hated the Entelexeia & killed Duke's friend, Elucifur causing Duke to lose faith in humanity believing on only protecting the world & the Entelexeia as he was willing to erase all humanity & himself for their discrimination & how they refused to change throughout everything he's lived through even Brave Vesperia agreed to his actions after what he's been through but they still insist on fighting him because of his extreme methods which unlike with Amalthus/Malos & Oersted, we finally got to see Duke realize his mistake of wiping away humanity knowing people can change & believe to give them a chance, where as with Malos, he was so far off the deep end, he knew he couldn't turn back after everything he did that the party wished Rex was his driver to not suffer from Amalthus's hatred or with Oersted where after he was defeated, he warns everyone that "For as long as hatred exists, anyone can become the Demon King" & then vanishes, so yeah you can kinda see why I group these characters together, they have the same goal of wiping out the world after seeing humanity at their worse, which is something I believe they're correct, especially irl, humanity is flawed & sometimes I do question if there's any purpose to live but at the same time, we just need to find the right people to make it worth living & maybe someday it will be fixed, so while they're in the right, their actions were too extreme & why we had to stop them at the end of the day while also sympathizing why they became this way & this is by far one of my favorite things with a villian besides entertainingly evil

[@geardestroy]

I like to discuss Light's plans and methods and how inefective they would be, not mention evil, remember the part where he plans to "get rid of those who dont contribute to society", he literally filled a page of the Death Note per day, i doubt all of those were murderf cases, not to mention the series never touches on the big criminals adapting to Kira, just thinl K about it, think about it, the term scape goat exist for a reason, when Light says that crime went down is not likely that people comit less crime, but that less crime is being reported, the way Kira operates is known, theres a reason the Russian Mafia continue to operate and even kidnaped Light's Sister under Mello's order, i wish this aspect got explored more instead of just focusing on catching Kira, actually show that Light's ideal world was a fraud

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

This exactly. So many of the people Light killed were probably only “criminals” for shit like selling weed or public intoxication. And who knows how many of them were just innocent people who got wrongly convicted for stuff they didn’t do.

[@Zetact_]

L coyly saying, "Justice will win," is not necessarily him saying that "he" will win, but also is implying, "Whoever wins will be determined to have always been in the right." I think a core aspect of making a "nuanced villain" is for the character's core motive to be related to something that the writer is personally on the fence about. By the writer mulling over the point, it does show both of the positive and negative aspects and a lot of it what you see on the page is kinda the writer working through, "Well, what do I actually believe on this subject?" It is very easy to represent something you agree or disagree with but if you know where you lie on the aspect the villain is supposed to represent, you often can struggle to actually convey the nuance. Usually you'll push the point you agree with more. Either you make the villain so obviously the one in the wrong it comes across as trite (or misrepresent the actual real world points the villain is meant to reflect), or you agree with the villain so much that you forget to make them actually a villain or show the counterpoint that refutes the motive.

[@brayenmorrison3199]

"You know... they might be onto something..."

[@sdbzfan1]

This nigga spitting

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

I'm so glad i didn't spoil myself on the third semester with your video, because *god damn is the story good*

[@lpfan4491]

Honestly, the idea behind WW Ganondorf will always resonate with me on a writinglevel because I think that is the only time they actually did something like that in the series. He was so spooked by the gods doing something so much worse than he ever did that he straight up stopped being demonic, but the reason the game ends up the way it does is that even when he remembers his original goals that he forgot in his OOT-conquest, he's still a selfish thief. His goals are to help people("bring back Hyrule"), but only in a way that benefits him directly("Make me the ruler!"). It's a lot more interessting to have a villain that is right for the wrong reasons basically. Too bad that when most stories try to have a similar grey take, they usually screw it up by pulling too much in one direction(Either overvillainizing a character who didn't do all that much, or straight up forgiving characters like WW Ganondorf when they didn't earn it). As a sidenote, as weird as that is, his speech about the wind and such was actually a lot more brief in the original japanese. The localizers straight up just expanded on it, which may or may not be popular with script purists.

[@mattwo7]

5:28 He's the same Ganondorf as the one in Ocarina of Time as the Ganon from OoT was only sealed away, not killed in the Adult Timeline. Before the events of WW, he escaped the Dark Realm and took over Hyrule but the Golden Goddesses responded by doing the great flood (which really makes them villains as well when you think about it) and sealing Ganondorf away in the tower.

[@frankspick7544]

naaaa the goddess are not villains people prayed to them to stop ganondorf and they did.

[@mattwo7]

​@@frankspick7544 Mass murder is villain shit. Motivation doesn't matter to determine if someone is a villain or not, actions do.

[@Everyone4Everything]

Nox is such a amazing Villain But even with all his suffering, who wants to see his family again, he was even up to erase A WHOLE UNIVERSE to archieve his goal. Wakfu is still underrated Also Victor Von Doom and maybeeee Red Hood could be in the video

[@catboysephiroth560]

WAKFU MENTION!!!!!!!! YES Nox is a wonderful villain, his desires are ultimately selfish and his justifications are insane, but they start from a place of purity. Innocent grief. The most basal desire to see one's family again. It makes him human. I also love that he is the dark interpretation of "Love is the father of innovation", because he becomes a really fucking skilled inventor. His love for his family drives him to make a ***functional time machine***. He harnesses Stasis and Wakfu, energies that ***only*** Dragons and Eliotropes(as well as Eliatropes but that's bc of Yugo's little fuckup) can use. Nox cheated death for CENTURIES with the technology he crafted. All because he loved his family. And he even took his dog with him. Noximillian is the single smartest, most powerful mortal character in that fucking show, and it's not done cheaply. He's a perfect tragic villain in my eyes. Also shoutout to Quilby, that mf wasnt right at all but he was insane too. I personally think he was a great parallel foil to Nox- still selfish, still using his vast expanse of knowledge for evil, but did it for himself and no one else. Not even his sister. Quilby is a little underwhelming when compared to Nox, but I think he's still a great and frankly, nessecary villain.

[@curabletoxin]

In Fairy Tail, there's a guy named Richard who is part of a group called the Orachion Seis. To sum it up fast, he has a change of heart and helps the heroes. He said he could no longer justify his actions of the evil he caused. Another character asks, "how could you justify this" Richard responds with an amazing line, " You can convince yourself to justify anything when you lose someone precious to you" (Not verbatim) Makes you understand why people go to such evil lengths when they do it for the loss of love ones

[@DangerDan64]

The closest one I can think of I see was in the right, but went about it in such a very wrong way was Andrew Ryan from Bioshock. Having the freedom to choose what to do in life, regardless of how smart or dumb or unethical it is, is still better than having the ideal perfect life that was always set up for you, no input since the day you were born and is always told to do this and that to achieve it. Having the right to choose for yourself at least tells you you're doing this for your own reasons, and you let it be your reality. In short: "A Man chooses! A Slave, obeys! Are you a Man or a Slave?!"

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

I think that we can all agree that the fourth kung fu panda movie should have been about Tai Lung being redeemed and becoming the dragon warrior he was destined to be

[@typemasters2871]

The Maruki situation felt like you were stuck between a rock and a hard place On the one hand he was forcing his worldview onto everyone, that life was better without struggle despite the fact that struggle can lead to a fulfilling life But on the other hand he had the power to bring back those who were unjustly killed or easily cure physical and mental ailments like trauma The whole conflict felt like a tragedy because there could have been compromise, there could have been a win-win scenario but Maruki’s fixation meant that the only outcomes were either his way or the old way

[@darkjammin79]

One that I've enjoyed despite how lackluster the writing was is Walhart of Fire Emblem Awakening. He wanted peace and saw that might was right. So, he became the mightiest and forced the whole continent to submit to him. Then expanding his domain to stop the threat of a dragon that'd kill all of humanity. He purely carries the submit or perish kind of attitude. Even shutting down discussions post game for the what if he joined your army. Coincidentally, taking the path of Duma(Who valued power and action) from his capital(When it was Valentia) and succeeding in this phase of his first continent. He brought peace but no one was happy to live under his heel.

[@finaldusk1821]

Edelgard from Three Houses came across as a much stronger execution of Walhart's lost potential. Walhart's ideology is only briefly touched upon in the post-game or if Chrom faces him in battle, while Edelgard's is a core component of Three Houses' story (especially on Crimson Flower and to a lesser extent Azure Moon). Her answer to an absolute and self-proclaimed 'divine' tyranny is delegated meritocratic tyranny. Her answer to seemingly endless oppression is a brief yet bloody war of liberation and conquest alike. And excluding true villains (whether real like Thales or perceived like Rhea) she genuinely cares for others and wishes no harm on them, hoping to share her ideal future with them and see them thrive in it, yet she will not hesitate to bury her axe in even her closest friends' skulls and step over their corpses should they try to stand the way of that future. Where Walhart's depth is genuinely interesting but easily missed and barely explored, Edelgard's depth is front and centre to be both appreciated and scrutinised for all it has to offer.

[@charlien6123]

Edlegard is fucked up

[@Crawdithe98]

One villian that comes to mind for this topic is Sher' Khan from The Jungle Book, more specifically his idderation in the live-action remake (before you throw up, this one was actually decent, at least compared to the other). He wants Mowgly dead because he beleives that Man are inherently dangerous and destructive, and Mowgly will grow up to become like them. I don't think I need to explain to you how he has a point about that. With that said, he is still using it as an excuse to murder a child whose on his way to leave the jungle anyways, so can't really support him for that.

[@Ravensgale]

4:27 This is honestly one of my all-time my favorite villainous laughs in gaming.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

1:53 Gyutaro, Daki and Akaza are good examples of villains who are technically right. Gyutaro and Daki were born into absolute poverty, forced to work for corrupt people and all but sell their bodies just to get by and were brutally punished when they stepped out of line, thus their rage and anger and choice to become demons is understandable as the only other option was to just die in the streets. Akaza similarly tried his hardest to be a good person, did everything he was told to do and rebuilt his life from nothing, only for people to cruelly take it away from him, thus again his rage is understandable.

[@sdbzfan1]

Adachi is still one of my favourite villians Not only does he manipulate and use people, but once confronted he tries to pass it off like he doesnt have a reason to be terrible and is one note, only to be confronted at his boss fight and he does actually have a deeper reason than its easy but its still a selfish one and only benefits him

[@mattwo7]

14:51 To be fair, this one _did_ manage to hide disguised as a windmill until the finals of the Gundam Fight because it was a quasi-battle royale up until the finals, though I say quasi- as all the fighting was still in the form of one-on-one sanctioned matches.

[@DanYami]

we sought an end to suffering. the tyranny of a universe that doesn't feel. the audacity of that frightens you.

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

The reason I could never take Ganondorf's speech about wanting to bring the Gerudo out of the desert seriously is because he had seven years to do so and never did.

[@irishijo1]

Maaaan, Domon Kashu is straight up one of the best Gundam protags ever, and I will challenge anyone to a Gundam Fight who thinks otherwise. G Gundam in general is such a fantastic show, with alot of good and nuanced characters, even if Tequila Gundam exists. Props for mentioning what is probably my favorite show of all time

[@soniaiboyako4023]

No Abby Anderson mention, especially in the Perspective portion is crazy ngl

[@mattwo7]

21:44 Good ol "24 7 internet spew of trivia"

[@madengineerkyouma]

Another great example of the Victim of Circumstance is Dhaos from Tales of Phantasia, but I won't go into details because of spoilers.

[@MojaveKnight17]

For the greater good The greater good

[@Benshavit493]

SHUT IT!!!

[@MojaveKnight17]

@Benshavit493 Come on Nicolas. You might not be a man of God but you sure are a man of Good.

[@ReapersChannel26]

Nice Hot Fuzz reference, I love that movie.

[@MojaveKnight17]

@@ReapersChannel26 same ❤️

[@historicflame972]

Tau 40k

[@jamesross355]

Nice to know I'm not the only one who remembers Fighter G Gundam. I always found Master Asia to be an interesting villain.

[@Kurotaisa]

3:30 Wind waker theme starts and I start looking for my phone because IT IS MY PHOOKIN RINGTONE lol

[@UmbraStarWolf]

I watched transformers one recently and it shed a new light on the Character of Megatron and his dynamics with the Decepticon. No spoilers but being deceived by the government and an idol he turns into an anarchist wanting no government

[@wayneigoe6722]

I defer you to the villain of Psycho-Pass season 1: Shogo Makashima. If ever there was a villian who belonged in the video, he's number one.

14:53 That could also be a reference to windmills being designed to be easy to take apart and rebuild.

[@BotSamich]

The thing to keep in mind with Armstrong is the context of his life prior to MGR. He lived in a world completely controlled by the Patriot AI. So, once the facade had fallen after the Guns of the Patriots Incident I'm sure it caused much disillusionment. I completely understand his want for "pure" freedom. It must be empowering to feel like humanity can control it's destiny once again.

[@Ozzieapologist]

I agree, but this is also the reason why I can’t take his ideology seriously, even though I really like him as a character. With the Patriots out of the way there must be some less destructive way to make a difference in the world, especially for someone so powerful and influencial, but not only Armstrong didn’t choose it, he seems very keen on the idea of resolving things in the most violent, destructive way. Both him and the Desperado (except maybe for Sam) make me feel like sowing chaos and shedding blood isn’t just a means to and end, but rather *the* end, or at least a good part of it. Finally, Armstrong’s goal is way too similar to the one Big Boss once had. A goal BB himself later renounced after he realized how misguided and delusional he was being. But, as Raiden himself points out, Armstrong is too insane to ever have the same realization. But then again, Big Boss had to technically die TWO times before he had this epiphany, so I guess I could cut Steve *some* slack on this one

[@emblemblade9245]

I think the big problem for Armstrong is essentially that he wanted to force people to fight and kill for their freedom and destinies, rather than create a world where people have less obstacles to it, by getting rid of the corrupt systems that still try to control it. He wanted the quick and easy route, and that’s just never the right answer. And he wanted what might have been right for him, but had no empathy to know if it was right for everyone else.

[@rga1605]

Glad you mentioned Master Asia

[@orionperez4985]

I think the Char similarities go further than the costume reference with Shido. At least in the JP dub, Shido's Seiyuu is the same one who voiced Char back when it released all those decades ago.

[@Shadrio]

Windwaker Ganondorf was peak, as while WW Link could feel a sense of empathy for the old man, we as the player know that once Ganondorf overthrew the hylian monarchy and attained power over hyrule he never saw fit to better the lives of his tribe. Basically WW Ganondorf is just a boomer retelling his story to come off better. Sure, you could chock it up to OoT was a late 90's Nintendo game and even now Nintendo doesn't really put in much effort into their stories, buuut I rather just read what we've got instead of what we could infer.

[@themundanemrj]

Stain from MHA, since he was shown in the first third. Heroes are meant to be beacons of hope and potential for those less fortunate or without great power, the big example being All Might. And its when their motives are clouded with money, fame, or the numerous human desires or temptations, it then taints the perception of what a hero truly is. But Stain went about it in a way that instead of finding the problems and injustices of society, and developing ways to counteract them, he went headfirst into crippling or even ending the lives of heroes he deemed to be impure and not up to the standards he viewed as the pinnacle of heroism as displayed by All Might.

[@mattwo7]

14:59 Tequila Gundam's name makes me wonder what Neo Ireland's and Neo Scotland's gundams were called, Whiskey Gundam (which would be leprechaun themed because of course) and Scotch Gundam (which would have a kilt and a bagpipe-shaped blaster) maybe?

[@tomcurl8034]

Sometimes the villain is correct in their goal but their actions to reach said goal are wrong

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

Light wasn't right.

[@seekerofnothingness]

Hey, I like Armstrong as much as any other guy, but for this topic, Solidus Snake would've been a better choice

[@Zetaforce-uv8el]

Master Asia is one of the best written characters I’ve seen. He challenged and tested his pupil Domon until he had nothing left to teach and the end of his story gets everyone.Not to mention his infectious personality.

[@nvnvnv13]

There's a reason why Wind Waker is my most fav LoZ game. It's because of Ganon. He sounded so...humane for an antagonist. He just want to save his people. But he's doing it wrong and so Link still have to stop him. There's depth in Ganon WW character, unlike the others Ganon, and I like him to bits 😊

[@dark-winged-angel136]

11:00 what is the name of this song?

[@darkspell9849]

"Throw Away Your Mask" from Persona 5 Royal

[@Vincent_Rabbit]

I would argue Saren from Mass Effect was right about mixing organics with machines, now sure the Reapers could've just indroctinated Saren so that they could harvest the galaxy, but what would you do if you were Saren and discovered an ancient harvesting species like the Reapers? And ironically enough, Mass Effect 3 literally confirms his point with the synthesis being the "best ending"

[@Snoozytube]

Good video, MK! I'd like to see a video from you on heroes or anti heroes that were misunderstood or have a tragic tale like spawn, for example. I think it'd make for an interesting topic such as these ones. Keep up the good work.

[@rmt3589]

Like a month or two ago, I was watching a video about Dr Doom. There was a basically omnipotent god that looked into his mind, and basically said "your methods are horrific but you are in the right. This would save..." I had a realization. He's like a reflection of Narcissism, except instead of being unable to take criticism, all criticism against him is wrong. It is a situation that's been haunting my mind a bit.

[@Snoozytube]

Maruki has the design of Sosuke Aizen and the goals of Madara Uchiha

[@lynaras.673]

I love these kinds of videos!

[@katster1310]

Emet Selch from FFXIV is a prime example. His motivations are understandable and not contrived. In the end we the protagonist walk the same path as him

[@MsUnamusedNerd]

The title instantly makes me think of Joseph from far cry 5

[@magenstaffarts]

Controversial, but Victor Von Doom in both the Marvel canon, and in in the Fortnite canon storyline was right. Maybe not the way he went about it in each case, but he was right.

[@tmb11212]

I'm surprise you haven't talk about John Kramer from the SAW franchise. Anyone who watches those SAW films can understand where he's coming from... even though his methods are questionable.

[@Chaos_Vergil]

FUCK!! WHY DID YA HAVE TO SHOOT ME AT THE SPOILER WARNING!? CALL AN AMBULANCE!! Good vid, btw.

[@mattwo7]

14:48 It also has a surfboard, even though surfer dudes are as far as it gets from the macho stereotypes of boxers and gridiron footballers.

[@BJGvideos]

Are they? Still athletes

[@mattwo7]

​@@BJGvideos It's a matter of stereotypes when it comes to what G Gundam draws from (I mean even Shining Gundam is based on a Samurai and Domon was a practitioner of a mix of at least three different Japanese martial arts (just like how both Neo China and Neo Hong Kong had practitioners of Kung Fu as pilots), the producers weren't discriminating or playing favorites here (although having the Statue of Liberty Cannon hit Devil Gundam in the Neo Hiroshima was certainly a choice)). The surfer dude stereotype is closer to the stoner stereotype than any athletic stereotypes.

[@WeebGuru6]

Dabi from my hero academia is as character who needs a video

[@kekada912]

Master oogwsy was a tortoise

[@williamcrowe2576]

Megatron in Transformers; he hated the caste system, but hated Sentinel Prime even moreso.

[@mattwo7]

Depends on which version. There's a few sympathetic portrayals but not all of them. Especially not the one from Beast Wars who just idolized the one from The Transformers (Cartoon) and wanted to rebuild his legacy. Worth noting that the functionalist society was an invention of IDW's and I'm pretty sure that version of Cybertron's history got rebooted out of existence. That said, other comics also went into Megatron's backstory, usually connecting him to Orion Pax or Optimus Prime as a brother in arms before the war between Autobots and Decepticons started.

[@williamcrowe2576]

@@mattwo7 That said, into which category would Dawn Bellwether from Zootopia fit?

[@mattwo7]

@@williamcrowe2576 None, she was proven to be entirely in the wrong.

[@liammcallister726]

Lelouch from Code Geass is a villain who is actually in the right

[@Kushrada]

A villain I always believed was in the right was Amon from The Legend of Korra. He was right in that Benders were a source of inequality around the world. And funnily enough if he whipped out bending society all future problems cease to happen. With Korra no longer the Avatar the civil war with Unalok never happens, or at least never progresses to the point where the spirit portals open and Vaatu is freed. So no imbalance with the spirit world, no rise of the Red Lotus, no rise of Kuvera. No spirit nuke, no giant mech. Sure his act of Amon was a lie, a standard everymans tale of loss because his actual circumstance were so horrible no one could sympathize. But the desire to stop bending threats and leave the world a better if more normal place came from a genuine place.

[@lpfan4491]

Honestly, I just blame the writers for being too scared to go through with any bit of "maybe the protagonist was actually wrong tho". There is only one thing that needed to change and that was for his scar to actually be real. That way, it would imply that he did attempt to just leave bending alone for a normal life but it never left him alone, which would logically conclude in his desire to lead a movement to make the entire world more peaceful by making everyone normal(Which as we know, was the original state of humanity anyhow).

[@Amadoofus]

A villain who was right is probably weather report when he has his memories. He is technically the villain of the heavy weather arc and he has good reason to be a villain.

[@DanYami]

19:20 yo what's that music I remember hearing it in old SMG4 videos

[@SiliconSlyWolf]

Of all the games I've played with a villain who feels they might be right is Tales of the Abyss SPOILERS The world is prophesied with destruction, and the Score that predicts it is absolutely true in that world (because of course a JRPG religion is true). Some people don't use the Score much, but some will follow it to the point of "what should I eat today." So Van Grants decides to do something about it, and his plan is that the entire world needs to be destroyed and replaced by a clone that isn't spoken of in the Score, and by the logic will save humanity as a species. This leads to things like you first main character Luke, who is a 7 year old clone with the body of a 17 year old, and is a noble, so the clone was basically raised in "captivity" to protect him, and he is the most obnoxious guy you could ever meet (which is just one of many "this villain can't possibly be in the right" moments). Luke eventually gets wrapped up in a Score reading where he's presented as the hero by Van, while Van intends to use Luke as tool to for his own ends to replicate the world. As you go through the game, various events happen that seem to go against the Score, including things you do trying to save the world. But eventually, that event where Van said Luke would be a hero, later on in the game, a different version of the exact same prophetic event happens again, and I found myself questioning if the protagonist actions were actually doing anything positive or not. That the protagonist actions aren't really achieving anything, and somehow Van is the only one who has managed to find a way that is actually against the Score. There are a lot of other dynamics to all this. Like Van and one of your characters, Guy, their home was destroyed by the family of Luke, which was in part due to following the Score, and Guy originally wanted to seek revenge as well as Van. He was planted as a servant into Luke's home. Guy however, began to see Van's plans as going way too far, and sides with Luke in the long run. There's also the character Asch, who long story short, is the original Luke, kidnapped and cloned by Van. For a while, Asch went along with Van's plan, his life was ruined anyway by the clone Luke. But he also thinks Van is going way too far, and turns against Van, but also never truly joins you due to his hatred of clone Luke "being weak" compared to Asch himself, and whose existence ruined Asch's life. I hope recent news that more Tales games are getting remakes will include Abyss, and that it's well done. Abyss is locked on PS2 or 3DS right now, but to me it's an absolutely great JRPG, my favorite of all time, and I hate the idea it might (legally own-able) disappear completely one day without a PC version available.

[@maytalacedo20]

tai lung was interesting because of how he was raised and how he become this way the small moment that caused this was even when shifu defeated him to put him to prison he never bothered to visit him in prison in 20 years or at least tell him what oogray said was wrong or at least tell him that his fights mean matter to him that doesn't need to the dragon scroll. I felt like his visits once in an awhile would've made a difference in tai lungs life. but I get his story was a cautionary tale since when Shifu told tai lung how much he means to him he's already gone no longer the young boy with promise but already a corrupted entitled fighter. that doesn't mean what tai lung said to Shifu wasn't valid since he had a point that his father figure didn't stand up to him but doesn't mean what his actions did later excuse it and I love how that was explored in the first movie

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

7:29 Eh, frankly it could;ve easily been used to help solve world hunger as if cows can produce double the meat then it could easily be sold to other countries.

[@Sheevlord]

My favorite example is Otto Apocalypse from Honkai Impact 3rd. On one hand, he has committed countless crimes against humanity, and his methods were simply inexcusable. On the other, he might've been the reason humanity even had a fighting chance against the Honkai at all. The ironic part about him is that technically he won. He achieved everything he wanted, and went out on his own terms.

[@Gothaman1]

A villian with a point makes for a good villian

[@Rabbitlord108]

Still wonder what would've happened in the anime if N met Paul and Ash admitted that he's done horrible things to his own Pokémon like what was happening to Chimchar (Before his 180 in the last few seasons of the anime)

[@mattwo7]

Ganondorf would be later retconned to be an incarnation of Demise's hatred. Of course in that sense he, Link and Zelda are all victims of a seemingly endless cycle, a "destiny of that blood" if you will as Link's and Zelda's legacy would continue to be passed down across generations to fight Ganondorf. The united timeline even providing evidence that merely not killing Ganondorf and sealing him away instead is not enough to prevent a new Ganondorf from being born. Supposing Calamity Ganon even _is_ a Ganondorf anyway, it's never really made clear what exactly it is beyond a force of nature.

[@OsnosisBones]

Nintendo actually retroactively put BotW and TotK in a totally divergent timeline with no connection to prior games, effectively making it a fully what-if universe that just cherry picks specific stuff to reference, probably as a way to explain contradictions ram ant in the games. Even then, ignoring this Calamity Ganon isn't meant to be a separate Ganon, but a destructive force formed from the accumulation of Ganon's seeping malice while sealed away that seems to instinctively lash out and follow after what the original wanted in an animalistic fashion. Kinda like one of his phantoms, but on a grander scale and probably not intentionally made.

[@mattwo7]

@@OsnosisBones "Nintendo actually retroactively put BotW and TotK in a totally divergent timeline with no connection to prior games" This is not true, it was just not visualized clearly enough, nothing actually changed with that version of the timeline. "but a destructive force formed from the accumulation of Ganon's seeping malice while sealed away" Except Ganon _wasn't_ sealed away, Ganondorf was. There is an important distinction there. Ganon is what happens when a Ganondorf is hopped up on the Triforce of Power's full... Well, power. Of course, in the united timeline, Zelda seems to have the complete Trforce somehow as the "sealing power" so Ganondorf _can't_ become Ganon. Ganondorf hadn't even used the power of the Sacred Stone he stole by that point.

[@OsnosisBones]

@@mattwo7 Except that doesnt seem to be how the Ganon/Ganondorf distinction was presented in BotW and TotK at all. The Triforce only ever shows up being used by Zelda (seemingly a full triforce at that), and never by name, and any instance of Ganon using his power in those games was retroactively presented as him using his own dark power that has been further strengthened through the Secret Stone. Nothing seems to hint he has a Triforce fragment in those titles. The only instance of Ganon was in BotW, and it's not given any sort of established personality or character so it just sort of feels like an instinctive force born from the sealed away Ganondorf's miasma every many years. Outside of the what if story shown in the Hyrule Warriors game, the only indication Calamity Ganon was capable of any deeper thought was it acting to corrupt the only weapons that could hurt it, which is still within the bounds of a beast acting on self-preservation/learned behavior/muddled connection to the sources' mind.

[@firepuppies4086]

11:59 not just his look, his voice too!

[@spencermaley4390]

Handsome Jack too. He predicted that bandits would spread throughout the galaxy unless he controlled the Warrior, which is exactly what happens in BL3.

[@John-Stark]

Another reason why I wish Jack won in 2

[@Kotatsu_Kevin]

Late to the party but I wanna point out that In the manga version of sword and shield, it's revealed that chairman rose did, in fact, do waaaay more calculations and cross references and data analysis to make sure that his findings were correct. His conclusion was that, galar would run out of the 'galar particles' they used for energy in *10 years* and *not* 1000, as well as further explaining in his research documents that galar society would be totally collapsed in 100 years, and that finally, by the aforementioned 1000 years, the galar region would be completely ruined and uninhabitable, with no humans or pokemon living there anymore.

[@Devast8or2000]

But if you remove all the negatives how do we tell good from Bad? Manga?

[@ShadowWolfRising]

I can throw one out to, albeit it's proven in the next game. That being the Villain of Lunar: Silver Star Story.

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

Ok I might be going off halfcocked since I’m making this based solely off the thumbnail but Kira was not right in the slightest. Light was just blanket killing anyone who was considered a criminal, regardless of what their actual crime was. I also highly doubt that all the people he killed were actually guilty, since plenty of folks get convicted wrongly

[@Mangakamen]

Yeah, you may wanna watch the video.

[@josieconroy9177]

Shenzi from The Lion King definitely is one of those villains

[@ninakrishnamurthy6674]

I don't know if MangaKamen has played Lost Judgment, but that might have been the first time I've ever experienced a story I've enjoyed where I genuinely thought the hero was wrong. Usually, you're either intended to see the hero as being in the wrong or the hero is poorly written. Lost Judgment wasn't like that. I'm supposed to see Yagami as being in the right and the bad guy as being in the wrong, but I don't because the villain kills a bunch of people who absolutely deserved to die and Yagami's only counter-argument is "Your vigilantism indirectly led to the death of an innocent because someone else decided she knew too much about your activities".

[@MCPhatman]

"What they did in this universe" yeah... about that 😅😂