The Rise & Fall of Blackwater

[@socshooter]

My two cents on this issue. I spent almost 7 years as a contractor and I dealt with BW, TC, Dyncorp , HART etc. When I got recruited by SOC-SMG now SOC-USA in 2004, I spend an entire month being evaluated by SOC instructor in Hawthorne Nevada (HDSOC, High Desert SOC), all instructors were TIER 1 instructors, out of 33 individuals that were invited for evaluation only 12 made it and 3 were fired within 2 months of being in-country. The CEO of the company Mike Janke had one rule for eval, it did not matter who you were and who you knew, if you did not qualify or passed their curriculum you will not work for the company period. SOC fell into the same dilemma as BW and other PMC but that was around 2008, however, one huge difference with SOC was that the CEO would listen to the guys on the ground and gave everytool they needed to get the mission done. I did everything from static, PSD, convoy, Site manager, Project manager etc. One thing about BW ethics was their recruiting tactic, they were poaching other companies shooters like crazy to join their ranks including myself, however I knew many BW PSD guys and they painted a different picture, and that was the difficulty working on the DoS contract and keep in mid that was the only contract BW had. Many BW Tier 1 guys were being blacklisted (blackballed) from country by State and they were loosing allot of good experience so their standards were dropping like a dirty diaper, that is why for a long time if you wanted to work for a PSC they will ask if you had work for BW or in Abu ghraib. Don't get me started with Custer-Battles. Great job and congrats on your channel.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

Not sure how much you guys know about the multi-company corporation Constellis (Academi, TC, OG, TDI, Omniplex, Centerra, and several more) nowadays, but it's massive. They have a lot of moving parts and logistics now more than ever, it's wild and lots of money moving around, but there's still all kinds of issues with these companies in variable ways (just left Constellis couple months ago after several years of contract work).

[@jamesgunnyreed]

I retired from the Marine Corps in 2012 and got bored with my Civ. job pretty quick. I applied to Academi 2013..At that time they were ONLY looking for prior SEAL, Spec Forces, Recon/MARSOC, or AF Spec Ops people which I was not. I thought I still had something to offer but they were flooded by then with guys that had the qualifications they were looking for. I did get a call from them later in 2014 for something about Human Rights Advisor in the Democratic Rep of Congo which sounded interested because I had spent some time there in 97. But by then I had started with the Forest Service, fighting wildfires and was having a lot of fun with that. Looking back I was just miserable after I retired (like most are when they get out) and needed to do something that meant something, and to be around like minded people again... I would have liked to have done the contracting, but the Wild Land Fire Fighting scratched that itch pretty good.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

@@jamesgunnyreed It really depended on the Contract specifics then and even does now, for OGA stuff it's still all Tier 1 and 2 guys, for general WPS, FPS, and a few others they'll take Combat Arms MOS line unit people, Engineers, MP's, Cops, anyone who qualifies and fits the criteria/ requirements on the job listings. Very true though, the market is over-saturated with Vets looking for work especially now, there's still jobs here and there but the pay isn't nearly what it used to be, and the Companies themselves can be a crapshoot with Policies and how they treat you. I just left Constellis (TC/ Academi/ Centerra/ Olive Group/ TDI/ a few others in umbrella) for several reasons akin to the Company playing fuckfuck games and not allowing me to transfer contracts back to what I was doing before (that and I really didn't want to deal with the current gov administration). The Wildfire Service is badass dude, glad you found a good niche to go into, some dangerous work but i'll be damned if that isn't awesome.

[@jamesgunnyreed]

@@DJTheMetalheadMercenary Just now saw your reply to my comment... Hope you are well after leaving... Yea. Fighting Wild fire was great! I humped more miles in 5 years of fighting fire at over 40 yrs old than I did in 20 years in the Corps! Not sure if you saw it yet but I am currently watching the Eric Prince episode on Shawn Ryans channel.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

@@jamesgunnyreed Hey bro, yeah I'm doing well, glad i'm out of the Fed Contracting game and focusing on Private Clients and other endeavors for the time being. That's a hell of a gig man, awesome stuff and you definitely put the work and hours in hah, good on ya! Yeah watched the whole interview, wild stuff. Gotta say after all is said and done I admire Erik in some ways.

[@patrickaherne3598]

I remember being at the '04 or '05 SHOT show as a technical advisor for a manufacturer and Blackwater had several recruiters walking around to the various displays. My partner and I were recruited, we passed. People don't think ITAR be like it is, but it do. I look at all of the cops from the South who went because of the pay and am glad I never did more than take a free t-shirt.

[@PixelatedGypsy]

My husband left Iraq in Feb 04 after invading with the 82nd, then left for his second Iraq tour with 4ID in Dec 05. He ended up doing three Iraq tours altogether, was offered PMC jobs several times and turned it down every time because “I liked being able to call for fire, or QRF, Contractors didn’t have the available support we had.” We run OP Healing now, a nonprofit for Veterans suffering from PTSD and other service related traumas.

[@Bellicose0311]

I wouldn’t say that BW wasn’t well trained because BW did a fantastic job. I think you’re selling them short given the situation. When you’re putting dudes boots on ground with sub par gear, mambas, kinda bleh weapons at first, you’re asking for some crap. TC is the worst company ever. Black water dudes were much better. Dyncorp had good dudes. I worked for multiple companies and I can say a lot of upper echelon dudes try to wash their hands from BW and pretend that they would’ve done better that 2-3 did. You also can’t act like any subsidiary or company that was involved in the GWOT was completely legal because the US made stupid laws and so did the local governments. These dudes keep talking about Nassir Square, when those dudes didn’t do anything wrong. You can’t hold dudes to a different standard than the war. You sure as crap can’t put the local gov in charge of the investigation. Plus contracting as soon as stuff goes wrong people point fingers to keep themselves out of trouble. So I just think this is a super biased interview.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

Even now it's common practice for the Company to throw the Operator/ Specialist/ Officer under the bus unfortunately, some companies try to back their people more than others, but it comes down to the legal connection through the Union the Company Staff are members with, and other mitigating circumstances surrounding the incident and how the Company chooses to handle it. Walkin' on eggshells anymore since those days. Same definitely goes for the regulatory and policy aspects over time and how companies have changed hands, consolidated, and bloated-- how the bigger Companies handle things now (even down to determining pay rate) is waaaaay different than the early GWOT days. Training for OCONUS work (WPS, OGA, etc.) is good, definitely better than for CONUS and ancillary or sub-contracts.

[@jportega9404]

Scott Helvenston's letter that got published in GQ years ago not long after that fateful ambush on the bridge in Fallujah was very telling about how awful they were running things.

[@rueridge7597]

He was a douche. Too bad he got BBQd.

[@mikelee7876]

Why you show Erik in the thumbnail

[@eriksmith6772]

Quite a bit of people on here forming their opinion based on 3rd and 4th hand info and unverifiable news sources. They were the largest pmc in the world and were the easiest to blame for any mishap.

[@jdiggitty]

How does life insurance work with that? Or health insurance? Who the hell covers that?

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

Initially, PMC/ PSC's didn't have to provide health insurance, but over the years with regulation and other policy agreements they have to provide an option for health insurance (it's optional and you don't have to take it if you have your own or use say VA healthcare), many companies also have a 401k program now too-- but the pay isn't as good as it used to be due to both that and other regulatory measures and progressive company policies (that and the companies' increased incorporation/ corporatization and desire to retain more of the profits for the company and their investors' returns).

[@SCARFACE69247]

Those guys were making $2-400,000K a year untaxed and were allowed to use US bases for medical. The military at the time almost didn't cover life insurance, I think it was for only $100,000.

[@queasyislander0274]

I suggest people look up the black water footage from overseas on KZbin. What they did and how they conducted themselves was absolutely disgusting

[@queasyislander0274]

Not saying they shouldn’t have been there or didn’t do some good

[@jamesmerone]

Over exaggerated and out of context.

[@queasyislander0274]

@@jamesmerone kzbin.info/www/bejne/rp6ZmXZopLxohpo there ya go bud

[@CA.0verview]

Tenderr -T.J.

[@notundermywatch3163]

Dave and Jack, please get Erik Prince on.

[@alexander1902]

He's not their cup of tea.

[@notundermywatch3163]

@@alexander1902 well he's not Gregg Smith's cup of tea for sure but I think it would be terrific if he came on.

[@hamdawg3stacks694]

Legends! I’ve done some things with the present entity of BW aka TC, but would have enjoyed to be slightly older and experience those early days of the company. Rest In Peace and God bless to those hitters

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

Yep same, just left TC contract. It was very different back then!

[@DEATHREAPER42]

Black water had the same training standards as everyone else. What you guys are talking about is a lie.

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

The Raven 2-3 crew detailed the training and standards pretty well in the Shawn Ryan Show/ Vigilance Elite podcast/ talk they did, hell of a good talk.

[@alexander1902]

@@DJTheMetalheadMercenary they literally talk about how well trained they were because they're defending themselves. They're not going to say "We were untrained washout yokels who never should've been hired" now are they?

[@DJTheMetalheadMercenary]

@@alexander1902 Standards are standards, that's what they conveyed in majority and good detail. Also, if you watched the whole talk, they were exonerated from the charges that put them in jail. Even with being totally thrown under the bus by Blackwater, they still compliment that training, which says a lot at base about that. The Industry especially back then wasn't anywhere near perfect (still isn't), it's an ever developing and improving dynamic with many factors playing into training and operations development over time. You sound a little jaded, almost like you got denied employment from a company in the industry because you didn't qualify maybe? That or you're just ignorant about how things work or don't fully understand and hate the nature of what PSC's do.

[@rueridge7597]

This guy showed his ass on original. Sure a lot is true but he’s a Trump hater so have no use for him.

[@jamesgunnyreed]

I agree. Hell they were training FBI, CIA, COPS , Spec Ops folks....I applied to Academi in 2013 and they were only taking former special operations guys... Most of the contractors had years of training and experience before they even got an interview. Maybe in the early days there was some inexperience. But how many Military folks had combat experience in 2003 and 2004. There were Special Operations guys that had never seen combat in those days.

[@jayblemsin4226]

This is borderline slander

[@dlmsarge8329]

It could only be slander if it wasn't true.