The Royal Commission - Episode 2 - Watchtower: In Focus (with special guest Paul Grundy)

The brains behind JWsurvey.org and JWfacts.com join forces to delve into Case Study 54 of Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, as the WTIF team are joined by Paul Grundy (founder of JWfacts.com) who attended the public hearing in Sydney.
Paul gives his firsthand account of seeing two heavyweights from Watchtower's Australia branch (Rodney Spinks and Terrence O'Brien) grilled over the organization's failure to implement key reforms that would have served to protect children - not only of Jehovah's Witnesses, but in the wider community.
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[@RandomPerson-js3rc]

They think they are being bullied?! They need to put themselves in the shoes of the victims they've bullied.

[@tonyjoyce8576]

Thank you for waking me up , I’m 69 I will be 70 on the 21st of this month November. I have been a JW since 1975; I started watching your videos about 2 months ago and have stopped going to the meetings. Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you . I live in Dublin Ireland.

[@LloydEvans]

This is the sort of comment that keeps me going! Thanks so much, Tony. Congratulations on finding your freedom! :)

[@bobz1736]

Re shunning - can you imagine the situation of a 8 yr old who got baptised then did something wrong over the next few years resulting in them being disfellowshipped. Suddenly being shunned by friends and family at such an age will seriously affect their mental health ...

[@islandgirlxx3465]

My gateway to freedom started with Paul Grundy. JWfacts was the first "apostate" website I visited where I learned the TATT. Thank you Paul!

[@kookootrix1978]

I'm not JW nor ever have been, neither do I personally know any, but I find the subject matter and your channel fascinating. Great content!

[@rogerkirkpatrick5256]

Thank you John Cedars, John Redwood, CovertFade and Paul Grundy! Your analyses of these proceedings is invaluable and so appreciated! Lloyd, you're my hero, man!

[@lindadent1138]

All JW'should have all information in the elders letters given to them and also read to the congregations.All members should have their own Sheperd the flock book to know what their rights are.These elders aren't ignorant when it comes to JW policy they are willing to protect the organization at all cost.Lieing under oath is proof of that.

[@blankslate77]

Angus Stewart is my hero.

[@frankvecchio4792]

I'm in Sydney Australia and have used jwfacts and meet Paul Grundy and he's such a nice and humble man. Thanks for this KZbin

[@bradbower5883]

The problem with asking these representatives of the WTBTS is that these guys probably don't have the education to understand what it is they are being asked, they take the GB the light on all and they know nothing better, like programs, but to deny or throw the questions in another direction is disrespectful to all those who have been abused by them

[@lovelive2216]

I'm so glad you all have addressed the issues within the JWs.. I was raised in the "truth" and now I really know the truth!! All thanks to you who have brought the truth to light.. thank you 👏🏻

[@lizardpieable]

Intelligent, provocative, and fair, objective analysis, thank you.

[@blindmansbluff]

Didn't the shunning section at the last convention clearly state that faders are to be shunned the same as disfellowshipped and disassociated? Wasn't that one of the key points made? That totally contradicts Rodney Stinks' testimony.

[@bettyjanellull1315]

I've really enjoyed watching this programme with all 4 of you. I watched all ARC both in 2015 and 2017. Primarily I watched it because of the child abuse but also to get an insight into how the organisation works and to see Branch members and Geoffrey Jackson as 'real' persons. I have come a long way thanks to JWfacts and JW Survey. I feel I know John Cedars after watching a huge percentage of your videos and reading parts of your book.I was unable to comment before as I had not set up a pseudonym. I am still a member of the JW Organisation in body but not in spirit. My mind has left. My circumstances are captive. The usual story. Family ties.

[@Onazzz808]

Hopefully soon the rest of the family will wake up so all of you can be free from this extremely dangerous cult

[@Sera-Marie]

A brilliant summary of the action from the ARC from 4 guys with vast knowledge. Great job guys! :)

[@saffronhammer7714]

What a lie, that one can just walk away. If you are very careful, move far away and the elders don't stalk you (as my BOE did)--you might be able to fade. But it isn't at all possible for many.

[@bridgwll]

But why should they have to move at all? So wrong.

[@BOOZEHOUNDD]

Wouldnt it be easier for them just to report? I mean surely they know they cant hide things forever. More and more cases will be brought before them, i hope they keep that billion from the Brooklyn sale. They gonna need it...............

[@yacubco]

of course they can't they want to picture themselves as perfect religion and this would make them similar to their frequent moquery target - catholic church

[@jeremiaspolanco8892]

Guys, this was a great analysis of the Australian Royal Comission. ...please continue to do more of this as this is a cure to minds of many of us that have been damaged by the Watchtower. ...thanks

[@neverperching6955]

I attended each day and had the privilege of having lunch with one of the survivors. Not one witness in attendance showed empathy to the survivors. There was very much an us vs them atmosphere in the room eminating from the witnesses.

[@SusanGaskin]

I am so enjoying watching all of you. What a fantastic job you all did! Thank you for your thoughts, your activism and thank you Paul for being at the Commission and speaking with Angus Stewart! I get the feeling that Spinks and O'Brien knew that they wouldn't be able to fool the Commission with you there watching them and having Angus Stewart's ear.

[@gabrielhugo4244]

Hope you are safe in this pandemic sister?

[@stephenwyatt6690]

it seems that a sex offender within a congregation has more safety/rights than a victim, how can that be right on any level.

[@billsdoris]

Thank you Lloyd for putting this video together with the other very knowledgeable guys. Any neutral person watching the ARC or the videos on youtube, will be disgusted at how the religion is currently operating and dealing with the child sex abuse issue.

[@jamieangel3766]

This WT in Focus episode is a collaborative powerhouse! Thanks for this breakdown of the ARC gents x

[@steeldutchess]

yay! A perfect start for the morning: priceless insight from John Cedars. Christmas came early this year :D Oh, spoke too soon, it's also Covert Fade and John Redwood, the whole gang and Paul Grundy here. Bliss.

[@steeldutchess]

24:47 not just common, but standard and intentionally so. JWs have no idea how their org is run and what laws the judicial committee is governed by.

[@abramgaller2037]

There are procedures through which the Royal Commission can compel depositions from the Governing Body,in fact they might be able to prefer criminal charges on the Governing Body in American courts.

[@brianblessing8494]

I've met both of these brothers personally to see how awkward and uncomfortable they were at the Royal commission really shows just how embarrassed they really were you see the organization is so pure and clean why should they have to attend such hearings right? Yes in the land of make believe where everything is about candy canes and fairy floss and chocolate fudge one can ignore reality, however in the real world witnesses especially the Watchtower hierarchy need to seriously fix these issues up expediently. The amount of bad reproach those in the branch have brought about by covering over these very serious crimes is unacceptable they all need to removed never to serve in that position again.

[@ericbulman1752]

They live in denial and don't see themselves as doing anything wrong and that keeps them fixing these things for the better . They push blame elsewhere and play the victim . Saying they are being attacked by haters who hate jws . When that's not true .

[@williamsawyer9894]

Thanks to the entire panel; you guys are a model of thoroughness and lucidity. Great job!

[@RealDukeOfEarl]

Back in the day it was not uncommon to find a joke on the back of a matchbox. An example of one such joke in the making is at 1:04:17 The original form goes: "Your Honour, as God is my judge, I am not guilty." "He's not, I am, you are, five years!"

[@bri340]

How convenient that none of the members of the governing body would show up and defend the organization that they run, and these elders are partly clueless and partly just saying what they are told to say. It would make them look so much better as an organization to report and protect not only their own but the whole community of children!

[@maxinemortimer714]

I know these are older comments but I've only recently 'woke'up...I knew someone who had been in prison and he was telling me peadophiles are kept in together in vulnerable wings, partly because of the treatment other prisoners give them. But while there they plan and talk together about what they are going to do with children when they get out. So...yes you are right they are repeated offenders. So dangerous.......

[@liplockednomore]

Me too!

[@dawnross2514]

Huge, HUGE gratitude to you guys for the love & care you show for those discarded by the WT Society. This is how shepherds should behave.

[@georgefresh6897]

That was fantastic! You have really upped your game Lloyd. You and all of your guests were incredibly knowledgeable on the subject. I learned a lot. Thanks for all of your hard work.

[@bobz1736]

When i was a witness over 25yrs ago i recall, if my memory serves me correctly, the term 'marked' being used for congregation members who maybe become inactive and do undesirable things but not enough to be disfellowshipped. It could be announced in a meeting that a certain one was to be considered as 'marked' and in effect to be generally shunned. I don't hear the term referred to recently so maybe there's been a change of policy ...

[@Sittingstraight12]

IF... they do a write up in one of the magazines, or if mentioned in the school... the rank and file will only look at it as new light. I've heard my husband say to his mom on the donation arrangement, how the society is so loving and the GB always get food at the proper time! This too won't make an impact ... because it's "apostate fed lies" and if somebody brings it to their attention as I have to my husband, I said do you want to watch Geoffrey Jackson on the ARC... he said no. "If it's important the society will have it on JW.org"..WTF

[@larrysommer3350]

my wife also refused to listen to Jackson's testimony. As an abuse victim I felt betrayed by my wife's refusal.

[@donnazukadley7300]

It's like an ostrich with its head in the sand!

[@hembry5512]

just take a look at thw may 2019 watchtower study edition, the second article. I am speechless

[@dianesicgala4310]

Thank you so much. Wha you are great. God bless you. I have a different story to tell. I left the Catholic Church. In 1995 and became A J.W. What a big mistake my young daughter followed me in. She left in 2001. She meet her young man who she married in2010. We live on the East Coast. I was told by the elders not to go to the wedding. I did not go. Long story. I started to watch the Catholic Channel in 2013. Aug 2014 my youngest Godchild's got married in a beautiful Catholic Church not far from where we live. I believe a small miricule happened to me in that beautiful little Church. It was the day after the Assumption of our Blessed Mother. Next day went to the Mass instead of going to the Kingdom Hall. Yes I lost all my dear friends. I did know that was going to happen. Then I went on the internet to look up shunning because I never agreed with that. Then I saw all this about child abuse. I was horrified. Keep the good work up. I worked for a very nice J.W. lady and as a Catholic did not know my bible well. I am English and was brought up in the Anglican Church. Converted to the Catholic Church in 1978. But did not know my early Church history. The Eucharist was always the Center of the Early Church and the Catholic complied and put the Bible together.

[@angedav]

Many years back we were reproved badly by the elders simply because we invited a faded young man to play football. We were stripped off some privileges for encouraging bad association activities.

[@Onazzz808]

davide angeletti Incredible!

[@thoughtsandviews9083]

You are doing a fantastic job Lloyd...really appreciate your work!

[@Rick_Alden]

Really great discussion you guys, which you handled quite fairly and accurately. It wasn't a typical 'hate' report but warmth and concern came through. At moments I was thinking I was listening in on a body of elders meeting 😀. Good show you guys and keep the good faith I think you folks still retain and have even taken to higher levels.

[@gerryhatrick9277]

excellent info will be passing this on to some witnesses who still talk to me .. look forward to you discussing the exhibits list particularly the letter from Australia Branch to the Governing Body. .

[@roseofsharon853]

Thanks you guys for spending the time to make this video. The way you dissected the Cast STudy 54 of ARC was brilliant and really helpful. i enjoyed this very much keep up the good work.

[@gabrielhugo4244]

Hope you are safe in this pandemic sister?

[@jilllong3627]

John!! Are you out? So cool to finally meet you!

[@jilllong3627]

Okay, I just went back and watched episode 1. I realize I'm a little behind on my comment, but it is still really cool to see your face to go with your voice.

[@heatherwhite6371]

I am glad I saw this hearing.

[@gabrielhugo4244]

Hope you are safe in this pandemic sister?

[@WistfulCreative]

It's about the money...if they report the accusations to the authorities they are doubling the lawsuit threats. Total double talk, they know exactly what they are doing. The arrogance is astounding!

[@MiguelRodriguez-ok9rb]

No. I. Would SAY just convict the wrongdoers and put them in jail or prison and leave the OTHER members alone and the police should THANK them for reporting it THAT'S THE way it should go

[@pfscpublic]

Did the Redress Scheme ever get launched in Australia in 2018? Does it work like a Compromise Agreement and gag the recipient from discussing it?

[@garywalters8991]

wow , "a marathon" to take all that in - it's like a morning session of an assembly . GOOD WORK .

[@thomasmann2581]

on shunning the only other people I can think of who do this, have narcissistic personality disorder. These will often refuse to talk to or acknowledge a person who is exposing their toxic behaviour.

[@ragingdork.]

Romans 13:1-2 says: "Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. ... So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

[@naterobinson5141]

Excellent, and revealing, the Society’s responses I’m not surprised.

[@Fritzw911]

very intelligent discussion of the case. would have loved to have been able to voice in on this but everyone covered the important details very well.

[@j.j.1064]

Seemingly they ignore their own bible which says....prov 3:27 " Do not hold back good from those to whom it is owing, when it happens to be in the power of your hand to do. Here we see the paradox.

[@Sittingstraight12]

This one of the best videos! All 4 of you know your shit!

[@user-kn1eq2jd3s]

Apologies on post here is the way it should have read: Even if a baptised JW stops going to meetings instead of disassociating, that person is still subject to being "marked" which was not addressed. Also, in light of the talk at the most recent district/regional convention , which talked about "shunning inactive ones" that position is not a safe option either.

[@jamieangel3766]

Why do they go after people who fade and maybe join another church (or not), or maybe stake out those who may possibly be having an affair, but if a child unmistakably says they have been raped, describing in too much detail for it to be imagined, and the abuser says 'nope, didn't do it', why do they say 'OK no probs! We'll just leave it in Jehovah's mighty powerful hands until the ends of time'? (Excuse the thinly-veiled sarcasm here, its just those hands in the present day seem to be incredibly impotent) Why wont they GO AFTER those people, who do the worst things and will continue to do those things? It shows their true priorities

[@wilfredgrey6475]

They give credence to the god of sex and intoxication. Baccus.

[@MRhodes]

Child Safeguarding Document and vague language. Re: mandatory reporting: "They will ensure a report is made to the police or "other appropriate authorities"... Other appropriate authorities could fall under the umbrella of "spiritually qualified men in positions of authority." In other words, the insular circle may continue, wherein "allegations" of child abuse minus two witnesses will in all likelihood NOT be reported. This document appears to be worded to give them legal wiggle room. In any future proceedings, they can say, "We did report it to appropriate authorities and followed their instructions" just as has played out with elders reporting to higher-ups and following instructions to NOT report and keep matters internal, to NOT disclose information to "worldly" authorities.

[@saffronhammer7714]

Brilliant. Thank you.

[@maxmack57]

Maybe the way this Horrible Child Rape situation is the reason they put in print to listen an obey even if it makes no sense from a Human standpoint..

[@juliechurley2716]

Fantastic discussion! Such a shocking indictment on the JWs. Who can support a group that doesn’t prioritise the protection of children? Ironically the Catholic Church - always vilified by the JWs , have been more open & humble. I’ve watched most of the ARC & frankly it’s embarrassing for Watchtower.

[@saffronhammer7714]

2 Thumbs-Down? Who dislikes facts?Are there JWs out there watching this and screaming, " FAKE NEWS!!!"Hahaha

[@RitaMalikfour]

Abigail Parker it’s way higher now I’m here in March 2019 , why thumbs down, I don’t know unless it’s from the bethel and g b

[@RitaMalikfour]

Abigail Parker for sure, my sister is one of those , she drives me mental

[@liplockednomore]

I agree. You'd think since they would be DFed as apostate just for watching that they'd not interact with an opinion. Of course, it's also highly likely they are assigned by Branch to monitor apostate activities so as to que-up for WT study articles, and snitch if they can catch an active tho PIMO JW participating!

[@liplockednomore]

@Myrm Ants I'm glad I came across ur input. Hadn't considered thumbs down from that POV. Perhaps, like myself, the other person commenting isn't narrow minded (that was a mean judgement btw) but only unaware others use thumbs up/down from a POV other than yours😬

[@charleslomanto]

Awesome job gentlemen, great discussion.

[@lovelysosweet8386]

they will shunning while in good standing! good they know they was lying!!!!!

[@heatherwhite6371]

If other ppl know about ur wrong doing u will be df'd. If it's just you and another then you possibly won't. I was repentant an even had a second meeting for my wrong doing and yet I was lied about an still df'd. I was engaged to the wheel chair dude an called him once to find out what was good on and he told on me an therefore they said I was lying and continued to do wrong doing with this person. Which I wasn't I was very repentant and felt like dirt. For doing what I did. Still they decided I was basically a harlot Bc I had legs and that worked. So two different things I had to deal with at same time. My child abuse and also my wrong doing with a guy I thought was going to Merry me n lied. He got his rocks off while I paid the price and also he was on private reproof and handling the Mics in his motorized wheel chair. Wow. Just effin wow. I like the judge Bc he said it's cruel. An it is cruel.

[@sputnik460]

Vincent Tool. I remember when he was a circuit overseer in SE Queensland. He stayed at our home several times. What a spin out to hear his name mentioned.

[@heatherwhite6371]

Sorry for rambling. I just am excited I saw this video and I want justice and yeah... Woo woo they get persecuted but no empathy for the ones they've screwed up for life.

[@woketointelofjws6670]

I couldn't stay .....I was being abused in my Jw marriage and the elders was on his side. I'm now 40 years of being shunned by my family .

[@Better_callMe]

Can we find these episodes on Itunes or any other podcast app?

[@heatherwhite6371]

They don't have to report accusations but yet will take two ppls lies as gold to DF someone. Yeah that's really a good double standard there.

[@alisonholland7531]

You know these buggers have refused to be part of an initiative by our government to compensate the victims.

[@katewilkinson8154]

Re your section commenting about Commissioner Murray's question about assisting survivors through independent expertise with therapeutic intervention - Com. Murray was NOT naive about JWs' aversion to psychiatric counselling etc. I have watched a number of the ARC's inquiries into other institutions and religious organisations where Com. Murray has asked similar questions. He is razor-sharp (in the nicest possible way). He would have been acutely aware of the position apropos the JWs. Note how he uses precise wording and forces the two witnesses into giving a commitment to support survivors in a timely fashion. He also follows up with the sledge hammer of specifically asking Mr Stewart to get formal advice from the JWs that they are indeed assisting people to gain independent therapeutic intervention.

[@LloydEvans]

Yes, I was impressed that he responded to the obfuscation from O'Brien/Spinks by just asking Stewart directly to pursue the matter. He seems very switched on.

[@gayle9977]

Very good video, I'm still so confused how these "brothers" can lie, I want to ask " you do know according to your teachings that lying will not get you into the new world?" How can they sleep at night if they truly believe what they preach?

[@gerryhatrick9277]

Gayle are you not familiar with Theocratic Warfare. check out JW facts . they are allowed to withhold information to protect the organisation

[@scotwm1789]

Gerry Hatrick: Yes, Theocratic Warfare is based on Rahab's lie to protect the Israelite spies in Joshua 2:5.

[@donnazukadley7300]

Abraham lied that his wife was his sister. I guess that makes lying ok. WTH

[@bubbaboey9992]

John redwood did you swipe that mic from the Kingdom Hall??

[@tonyalittle3624]

😂

[@jamieangel3766]

Thats what I was thinking! They were playing to the JWs because the last time was so dire

[@SephreniasSister]

It really angers me when JWs argue that members know about disfellowshipping before they are baptized. I was BFFs with a JW growing up and eventually studied for baptism (but left instead). At no time in those 20+ years or during the study was disfellowshipping so much as mentioned. “They knew what they were getting into” is a blatant lie. I’m surprised y’all don’t highlight this more.

[@heatherwhite6371]

Amen about that case an accusation... Of reporting it.

[@jamessteel1740]

@7:50min. Yes, I am one of them. I believe in the Scriptures and I am convinced we are in the last days Jesus spoke. However, I also believe that the organisation behind it has been damaging people. I make a distinction between Bible and WT.

[@jimbobaggans1564]

james steel You had better keep that to yourself. I hope that is not your real name. Witnesses do monitor these sites.

[@jamessteel1740]

thanks for the advice

[@steeldutchess]

1:48:20 all interesting points on how the inactive are "welcome". They are welcome to come and become active again. BUT BUT if a person likes being inactive and wants to stay inactive in a religious sense (not attending meetings or doing field services) but wants just to maintain friendship with JWs (going to movies, cafes, just going out together), that is 100% NOT welcome. And JWs who will try doing that with the inactive ones will be reprimanded, will get a talk from the elders. And if it's a male who "welcomes" the inactive one, he can kiss ANY promotion in his JW career goodbye. If it's a female, she won't be given the high privilege of serving as pioneer.

[@Glasstable2011]

Steel Dutchess you'd have to be high to view being a pioneer as a privilege!

[@steeldutchess]

lol, I hear ya and I was being sarcastic, but unfortunately, that is exactly how most JWs view it, and losing the pioneer status is one step above disfellowshipping for them.

[@atozed932]

1:16:59, the Soviet Union fell almost 30 years ago.

[@heatherwhite6371]

I faded Bc of my abuse and the constant judging of me being in active Bc of my mental and physical inability to attend. I have PTSD BI Bipolar depression and anxiety along with agoraphobia. The answer to this problem is well you need to call in an listen to the meetings. Which I do not have the desire to have a phone to my ear and listen when I can not comprehend sometimes what's being said. An I have still some ill feelings towards the ones who go to the meetings and their sins have yet to be dealt with. So why do people think it's okay to shun the ppl like me who haven't gone Bc of fear and anxiety PTSD which I do get triggered? I haven't written a letter to them. Was df'd once an then reinstated. But now I am faded out Bc of a ton of corruption I have seen an heard with my own eyes.

[@gabrielhugo4244]

Hope you are safe in this pandemic sister?

[@outandfullyawake4751]

Well worth the wait uploading the video Lloyd!. Loving the international analysis from you all. You managed to highlight all the lies made by the two Watchtower representatives (of "God's true organisation"). I also found it telling that a "Head Service Desk Attendant" (aka admin minion who reads from a service desk manual) was "repectfully" more vocal than the "Branch Committee" member in disagreeing with AS and Judge McClelland as if he had been given full authority to do so! (Brownie points to him becoming a future GB member perhaps?).

[@kirstenornelas881]

I was literally just turned ten at baptism! I could answer their questions because I had been indoctrinated since day one soon as we could be carted off to meeting after birth and I find it ridiculous looking back that anyone thought at ten years old I knew the gravity of the situation. You don’t understand what shunning really means at ten nor do you ever believe at that age that you would ever go against what your parents and the religious leaders wants. It is sick.

[@user-kn1eq2jd3s]

Even if a baptized JW stops going to meeting instead of disassociating, that person is still subject to being "marked" which was to addressed. Also, in light of the talk at the most resent district/regional convention which talked about shunning inactive ones, that position is not a safe option either.

[@postculthygge]

We don't know if they are growing or decreasing because many leave without being disassociated or disfellowshipped. Do they only count active publishers or publishers in the annual report? And of course, many are mentally out but are counted as publishers because they remain for their families and friends.

[@MrGetonyourbike]

come on Rodney wake up man

[@Bel5647]

Terri o Brien is a lovely man him and his wife margret were in my cong many yrs ago...

[@richardvsassoon5144]

another issue regarding notification - the authorities may be notified, but is the congregation...It seems they magnify the scripture about, 'not revealing the confidential talk of another', to the detriment of the flock

[@liplockednomore]

Congregation is NOT NOTIFIED! I found another pedophile in our congregation by looking up registered sex offender list in my town! Insane I can't even tell others!

[@marcoonlinetv7769]

If i understood well, Watchtower could be faced with more than 100 millions american dollars penalty? Is that could be the case?

[@jwfacts]

It is unlikely to be that much in Australia through the redress scheme. Victims will need to request payment, and many of the earlier of 1000+ cases will have died, or may be active JWs that feel guilty pursing compensation through the redress scheme.

[@marcoonlinetv7769]

Thanks for explanation, even if there will be a few million american dollars, impact on people in organization will be huge and many will close door for Watchtower

[@pjvgrundy]

Unfortunately Marco, Watchtower followers will not be affected in any huge way. It will wake up a small percentage, but the nature of belief and cognitive dissonance will ensure most JWs will turn a blind eye to the situation and find ways to justify what has happened. Their indoctrination against the world and apostates also means many will not take the time to listen to, or believe the information. Finally, for those that do come to realise how dangerous Watchtower is, it is very difficult to leave due to shunning, which is why congregations are filled will people that know it is not the truth but feel trapped into going along with it.

[@nixonpresley2111]

Great work friend sincerely Nixonpreley chieff of stafff gg4gb overlapping campaign by land by sea by air

[@nixonpresley2111]

Ps dittos on the words for your fellow guest !

[@Martinj1417]

Nice job Paul, but I would disagree with you about the right of appealing judicial cases. I was an elder for 5 years, and we had to tell them they had the right to appeal the verdict. We had to wait for a week before making an announcement. I am still sick to my stomach that I was in this cult and I helped many to be dfd.

[@naytchh7]

The problem is double-speak. While you're correct that ks10 says elders should orally inform of the appeal arrangement, it then uses language directly afterwards that could be taken to mean "Only inform the wrongdoer IF he feels a serious judgement in error occurred." The sentence after that says elders shouldn't encourage the wrongdoer to appeal. Yes, it says "nor discourage", but taken with the preceding text, the implication here could be to downplay the Appeal arrangement. Here is the section i'm referring to. Shepherd the Flock pg. 100: drive.google.com/open?id=0B0x0dcIOHm5HQmJCR0xQUld0d2c

[@MaciejTrebacz]

You're right, ks10 book specifically says that the judicial committee has to tell the person they have a right to appeal the verdict (source: ks10 6:15). BUT when you do, and you appear in front of appeal committee and THEN don't agree with their verdict, you can appeal (or how they put it: "submit his allegations") again to the branch office, but elders are instructed not to tell you that (source: ks10 8:14). Btw this refers to 24:30 part of the video.

[@naytchh7]

Aquaseventytree you're correct, along with Martin and Maciej, page 100 of ks10 does instruct them to orally inform. See my screenshot above for more info.

[@LloydEvans]

Hi Martin - thank you very much indeed for making this observation. I think Covert (not Paul) may have got a little confused with language in section 28 of chapter 8 to the effect that disfellowshipped ones should be neither encouraged nor discouraged with regard to appealing. Nevertheless, what he said was technically not correct, so in the interests of keeping the video factual I have edited out that portion of the video. I feel it's important that this sort of material is error-free as much as possible so that JWs watching won't be tempted to dismiss the good information on account of one slip-up. Again, thank you for jumping on this so quickly and bringing it to my attention! :)

[@jimbobaggans1564]

Aquaseventytree. I was never told of any right to appeal. I really didn't care what they did though. I was just glad to be out. I did get a phone call, about a year later. They asked me if I was still interested in being one of jehovah's witnesses. Just when I thought I was free, they found me!

[@annieh1111]

What would qualify as "policy documents" ? Letter to elders, edits to Shepherd the Flock of God or...?

[@goodlookingcorpse]

Small point: the title of this video is a bit misleading--it sounded to me like there were two episodes about the Royal Commission.

[@LloydEvans]

By the same logic, I have "misled" people into thinking there are 11 episodes about Publisher ID.

[@goodlookingcorpse]

The worst thing about the Jehovah's Witnesses is the way they won't take constructive criticism on board...

[@LloydEvans]

I love criticism that's constructive. I find it extremely helpful and adapt constantly according to it. What you're giving me, however, isn't helpful, and I have given you an example of how this is so. The title isn't "The Royal Commission, Episode 2." The title is "Watchtower: In Focus, Episode 2, The Royal Commission."

[@goodlookingcorpse]

i) That isn't the title. ii) You've successfully defended yourself from an attack no one was making.

[@LloydEvans]

i - I grant you the sequence differs between the thumbnail and the title text, but you still have three components to the title, and it's clear that this is episode 2 of Watchtower: In Focus - not episode 2 of the Royal Commission. Also, it's worth noting that this video has been up for over a year, and you are the first person to complain about the title being "misleading." ii - That makes no sense. Either your criticism is justified, or it is not. Are you saying I'm not allowed to respond to your criticism unless it's to agree with you?

[@MarieMacify]

I wonder what would happen if Mr Stewart read Romans 13 to those two when they read their NWT on him... :D

[@joanferguson4194]

I wish this had been introduced by someone. Rom. 13 is very specific about the superior authorities being appointed by God and very specific about the duty Christians have to recognize this fact! It’s very apparent this org. doesn’t give a damn about this scriptural guideline at all. They cherry pick their scriptures just the same as all the other religions do.

[@randtech4826]

Who else is here because of "the faithful and discreet slave is neither inspired nor infallible and therefore may err in doctrinal matter." M I N D B L O W N. Then you take a trip down the rabbit hole. "Neither inspired." Two words that led to me learning about 1914 being Armegeddon, 1928 being the start of the earthly resurrection, Beth Sarim, 1975 "wouldn't it be timely on Jehovah's part", Crisis of Conscience, Jesus being the redeemer for only the anointed...(despite the scripture saying something COMPLETELY different - no interpretation needed). Cognitive Dissonance. It is crazy. The real stir from my dissonance was actually way before that February 2017 WT - it was when I was watching a documentary (for adding knowledge to my ministry arsenal as it happens lol) about Scientology - I was flabbergasted by the similarities. Then when JW broadcasting came out, the creepy terminology (friends), the music videos (we used to be so against Christian Gospel music and speak disparagingly about it - aka "superfine") but we had to move with the digital trends... Samuel's Rolex, the growing call for funds with the "reminder" God loves a cheerful giver"...it was all leaving a nasty taste. Currently PIMO (even learning the terminology lol). It's scary- "Lord, did we not minister in your name and perform miracles in your name" I will reply "I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness." I never applied this to US. I'm still researching EVERYTHING, our history but once you know you know.

[@heatherwhite6371]

I have been in therapy at age 18 from sexual abuse from age 14 on up. I'm not angry with my perp. He was on drugs and the promiscuity is well alive when abuse has happened an it caused me to get df'd an I was reinstated but still saw the corruption an the one who was involved in sexual activity with me didn't get df'd Bc I had working legs and he was in wheel chair an he trapped me in my uncles kitchen.

[@craftyajay9495]

Ooh . . . The smell of MONEY.

[@atozed932]

12:01 Lloyd Evans is Woodrow Wilson reincarnated.

[@wldnemesis]

What was the final verdict? Were they found guilty or not guilty?

[@LloydEvans]

The Royal Commission wasn't a lawsuit with a guilty/not guilty verdict. It reached a number of findings which have been taken up by the Australian government to help inform lawmaking and their treatment of the various different institutions investigated.

[@bettyjanellull1315]

Covert Fade. You say you have now left the organisation. I'm interested to know why you're still covert?

[@covertfade5867]

My family are still JW's. If they find out I'm an activist it's shun-time.

[@liplockednomore]

He has family still in cult.

[@heatherwhite6371]

My question is where an how are they going to fund the ones who have been molested any mental health care with them being a contribution based society and claim to be broke all the time. How will they pay for this? I've always wondered why the religion has never given money to help families. It's always a serve Jehovah and u will be provided for. Well, what about the ones living in the dark like me Bc of my abuse and mental inability to even work. We will give them the help they need an spiritual help That's what he said in the end about it an you know dang well that was a hint that if you chose to not follow Jehovah's organization they won't help you. That's how is came across to me anyway. What if we don't want the spiritual help an want the mental help professional help? Hmm... Will be considered apostates then? My perp is dead and gone. The long term sexual problems are still alive and there. An I am now going to be 41 years old. Darkness has been over my head for years and the fact that I had to be in the judiciary meeting against an with my perp that I had to explain detail by detail of the events. Was a real detrimental event for me. Like feeling I was in a room full of corrupt perverse men. Why do I have to tell the sexual details to these men. Then only to see my perp whom I loved and trusted be put through the devastation of it all Bc he didn't know he did it due to the drugs. They should have given him help an they didn't. My Mom chose to forgive and get my perp help. Once you have the conscious of a jw its hard to hold a grudge Bc Jehovah tells u to forgive and with that said I did and my perp got help but to think that I was an am still having issues Bc of the crap I saw inside the body of elders still haunts me and it's not something that just happened in one congregation it was two different ones that I had dealt with. Possibly three Bc I was df'd and reinstated but had to go I believe if I remember correctly back to that congregation to get reinstated and then back to my home town. Very stupid set up. I don't know Bc I can't remember all the situations. But I have a crapload of things I can discuss.

[@eastbaysf]

THey say there is no Leeway for women to even be in on meetings while questioning children of abuse...I say they are not reading their own bible. Judges 4:4New International Version (NIV) Deborah 4 Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord, now that Ehud was dead. 2 So the Lord sold them into the hands of Jabin king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor. Sisera, the commander of his army, was based in Harosheth Haggoyim. 3 Because he had nine hundred chariots fitted with iron and had cruelly oppressed the Israelites for twenty years, they cried to the Lord for help. 4 Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading[a] Israel at that time. 5 She held court under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites went up to her to have their disputes decided. 6 She sent for Barak son of Abinoam from Kedesh in Naphtali and said to him, “The Lord, the God of Israel, commands you: ‘Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali and Zebulun and lead them up to Mount Tabor. 7 I will lead Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River and give him into your hands.’” 8 Barak said to her, “If you go with me, I will go; but if you don’t go with me, I won’t go.” 9 “Certainly I will go with you,” said Deborah. “But because of the course you are taking, the honor will not be yours, for the Lord will deliver Sisera into the hands of a woman.”

[@jasonw1900]

When you state that on JW Survey you invite anyone who notes a false or misleading or incomplete item, I'm wondering how often that genuinely happens that something has to be corrected? I assume you must get lots of JW's or apologists that simply don't like the content but really, how often do you go back to correct things? I'm thinking not too often.

[@LloydEvans]

Every now and then corrections are needed. When you have a website run on a voluntary basis passing on so much information on such a complicated subject mistakes are inevitable. But it's safe to say corrections are rare, at least speaking for JWsurvey. And we do our best to own up to them, document them, and apologise wherever necessary.

[@jasonw1900]

John Cedars I assumed that was the case, and have to say that I have found more honor and honesty with former JW's who are able to publicly post on KZbin and other sites, I recently commented on another KZbin channel about a blatant inaccuracy and he quickly moved to delete his video, I admire him for his eagerness to not spread falsehoods, and yourself, your site and also JW Facts for the honor and honesty you abide by

[@jwfacts]

Jason, I have found the same thing. JW's will often send an email saying my site is filled with lies. When I ask them to specify the lie so that I can remove it, not once has there been a response. Former JW's regularly send me emails, mostly though it regards grammatical errors or where I have mistyped the reference.

[@mommasuesue]

Yep they are supposed to follow ceasar's law !! What bunch of bullshit , why is it he didnt read that scripture!!!!!!

[@vicasbailey6895]

This JW is talking absolute nonsense!! no the individual has just decided to leave the congregation! that's not the same as shunning!