The second layer of Spikes kinda sucks...

Рет қаралды 15,916

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 105

@BKCplaysPokemon Жыл бұрын

this video does focus mostly on adv skarmory, but the principle applies to other gens and tiers just as well, whether it's deoxys-speed (saving it as a sacrifice later), ferroseed (leech seeding or knocking off), or greninja (attacking)

@jmcbango Жыл бұрын

s/o to ferroseed. Love the lower-tier appreciation

@tempestgreen1125 Жыл бұрын

This is coming from someone who mostly plays later gens. If your team’s wincon is getting the max layers of spikes, would you reconsider getting 2 layers of spikes as something eventually needed for the third layer? Or is it still better to play with 1 spike and look for an opportunity to get a double spike?

@Alexcoman51 Жыл бұрын

@@tempestgreen1125I think his point is that ending the game with 2 layers is bad. If you plan to eventually get all 3 then obviously that is better

@piousmage9583 Жыл бұрын

🎉🎉oo🎉65😊🎉🎉😊

@GoldGuard Жыл бұрын

No BKC, you’re wrong. My uncle who works at Game Freak said the second layer of Spikes saved his marriage and indeed doesn’t suck.

@Nako3 Жыл бұрын

Is your uncle called Dr. Pepper?

@GoldGuard Жыл бұрын

@@Nako3 Nah, Dr. Aim

@Alexcoman51 Жыл бұрын

Endpert wants to know your location

@Nako3 Жыл бұрын

@@GoldGuard neat

@jewdy5739 Жыл бұрын

WHAT DO YOU MEAN MORE SPIKES IS GOODER!?

@Truncation1 Жыл бұрын

For context, 1st spike +3/24, (12.5% total) 2nd spike +1/24 (16.67% total) 3rd spike +2/24. (25% total) Shows just how little impact compared to the first spike it adds. I think the issue for a lot of people is that the gaps between 1/8 -> 1/6 -> 1/4 being uneven is counterintuitive.

@willjoyce5013 Жыл бұрын

They should reduce the first layer to 8-10%, makes the curve way smoother

@BobDFish Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I get the feeling it was programmed this way to look nice and clean. I can only imagine layer 2 jumping from 1/8->1/5 though and it is a lil scary. Maybe this was an accidental correct call here to make layer 2 a stepping stone to layer 3 instead of just a big upgrade all on its own.

@becausesakamoto5938 Жыл бұрын

@@BobDFishi mean logic dictates that the second layer should be 3/16, since that's the direct midpoint between 1/8 and 1/4

@whomgod420 Жыл бұрын

It'd be interesting to see one on how the second layer of Toxic Spikes sometimes kinda sucks

@pacmanboss256 Жыл бұрын

i think the benefits of 2 layers of toxic spikes are inherently tied to other chip since you have to keep switching out

@pedroide23000 Жыл бұрын

i would even argue two layers are generally worse

@SPZ-gv2on Жыл бұрын

Yeah that one is very interesting, the second layer doesn't even sometimes suck, it often sucks. A lot of offensive teams especially would prefer the toxic.

@fulltimeslackerii8229 Жыл бұрын

id imagine t spikes second layer gets better the less pokemon remaining as there’s less switching

@butteredsalmonella Жыл бұрын

From what I can remember, the first turn of Badly Poison deals 1/16 while regular Poison deals 1/8 from the start. Unless you're staying in for the poison to rack up, regular poison is better.

@EmeraldG01 Жыл бұрын

This feels strange from a gen 9 perspective because we have samurott-H running around where the 2nd spike is still chip on whats standing infront of you

@BlockAndDot455 Жыл бұрын

A video idea, what if Fairies were in gen 5. Would BWOU be saved with the addition of Azumaril and Clefable or will it be even more of a dumpster fire.

@pedroide23000 Жыл бұрын

that would change the tier completely, almost impossible to imagine what it would be like

@orbital1950 Жыл бұрын

@@pedroide23000 Makes me think of ORAS without megas.

@fulltimeslackerii8229 Жыл бұрын

rip dragmag

@usernametaken017 5 ай бұрын

@@fulltimeslackerii8229rip bozo rest in piss you wont be missed

@Zero_Chaos Жыл бұрын

First layer is already so big because of how it eats Focus Sash. And 3 layers is massive just because of how quickly it scales vs Leftovers even w/o sand. The fact that the 2nd layer doesn't even eat a full tic of leftovers just means it scales that much worse through repeated switching

@lesqueegee Жыл бұрын

Valid argument! However, 240+ SpA Blaziken Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Swampert: 309-364 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after TWO layers of Spikes These are numbers

@woomynation Жыл бұрын

That's worse odds than focus blast, you ain't getting the roll 😂

@borby4584 Жыл бұрын

@@woomynationikr. Might as well use Zap Cannon as your move against Gyrados

@simros94 Жыл бұрын

And 100% with 3 layers :)

@olivergro7105 Жыл бұрын

Why not 252 spatk

@lesqueegee Жыл бұрын

@@olivergro7105 the hp attack and speed spread makes it so that it gets in blaze range from a zapdos tbolt, kills bulky Ttar with sky uppercut, and outspeeds max speed Ttar while also creeping 244 speed mons like celebi and suicune. The reality is that blaziken is not a good Mon in Advance OU, and you’re better off using zard or moltres. Nonetheless 50% is 50% 🗣️

@ryankeathley995 Жыл бұрын

im glad you are finally embracing the more optimal title style. get the bag dude

@nelsondaily Жыл бұрын

Great video Kev, this was a very good explanation! Also love the nurse moment on turn 60 :)

@Rainer2424 Жыл бұрын

Love your videos, I don’t play old gens (came in at gen 8) but I feel like because of pretty much just you and fsg I know so much about them

@tatersman5347 Жыл бұрын

He writes for FSG 😅.

@Rainer2424 Жыл бұрын

@@tatersman5347 💀

@AlyxIsSpelledWeird Жыл бұрын

Hey BKC I had a suggestion if you're looking for another idea; What if U-turn was in gen 3? I know what if videos feel a little less informative, but they're always fun to watch and you tend to find a way to sneak in a piece of advice that help me become a better player. Side question: Do you have a favorite movie with an ending that's open to a lot of interpretation? I love films like those and you always recommend very good movies.

@BKCplaysPokemon Жыл бұрын

thanks for the suggestion! re endings, some of my favorites that instantly come to mind which would fall into that category are perfect blue, taxi driver, beau travail, persona, l'avventura, stalker, last year at marienbad, to sleep with anger, burning, and of course the thing

@aik21899 Жыл бұрын

Adding to that some informational information that would be interesting: what teamstyles in gen 3 would be affected positively or negatively or could not exist with the concept you are discussing

@EvilApple567 Жыл бұрын

It's really weird how they designed the layer mechanics. The reason the second layer only adds 4.17 and the third doubles that effectiveness with 8.33 is because the effect goes 1/8 --> 1/6 --> 1/4 which I guess they thought made sense because they just looked at the fractions and didn't bother to do the math. I understand why they didn't wanna change the first layer, but to me it would make sense if the damage either increased progressively to represent a compound effect (4.17, 8.33, 12.5) or decreased with saturation (12.5, 8.33, 4.17). The awkward middle hump just doesn't make much sense imo even from a design perspective.

@willjoyce5013 Жыл бұрын

First layer should be 1/10 or so, smoothes the curve

@fulltimeslackerii8229 Жыл бұрын

my theory about the 16% is that they wanted to do 3 layers = 25 means you get 8% per layer but spikes started out as 1 layer doing 12% and they didn’t want to nerf 1 layer

@willjoyce5013 Жыл бұрын

They should nerf the 1st layer, it'd make the second more reasonable

@TheBestFormOfHumor Жыл бұрын

I don't know what it is about a title like this from BKC but for some reason the way the video is titled combined with the usual thumbnail is just really funny to me

@bananatassium7009 Жыл бұрын

The math function for spikes damage (0->1/8->1/6->1/4) may look very intuitive to start, but honestly it is pretty strange. Any sequence (of reasonable size) like that will have the largest jumps at the start and the end, then the next largest jump right before the end, and the next largest being before that, so on with the smallest jump being right after the start. For example, if there could be more spikes but it still capped at 1/4 damage upon switch-in and the calculation was similar, the damage on switchin might be something like 0>1/14>1/12>1/10>1/8>1/6>1/4, with the increased damage with theoretical spikes 1-6 being 1/14>1/84>1/60>1/40>1/24>1/12. That does obviously have some amount of mathematical consistency which the details of are fairly besides the point, but just looking at it, it could've definitely been nice if they chose something a little more simple like 1/12>2/12>3/12.

@MaXLebel Жыл бұрын

I've been playing competitive pokemon on and off for 10 years. I just realized with this video that spikes doesnt go from 12.5 to 18.75 to 25 %. Who the heck in gamefreak designed it the way it is and how is it not corrected to this day xd

@ectoboggan4732 Жыл бұрын

Same xd

@hannahbriarly4192 Жыл бұрын

@willjoyce5013 Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it goes 1/8, 1/6, 1/4 over 3/16 for 2 layers. It should be like 1/10, 1/6, 1/4 to increase the jump between 1 and 2

@newdonkshitty Жыл бұрын

video reminded me of a question i was posed with once, what if rapid spin could only take out one layer of hazards at a time?

@honjon666 Жыл бұрын

A true dystopia indeed

@BobDFish Жыл бұрын

I think this opens the door to another video idea: what if the second layer of spikes increased the damage dealt to 1/5 (20%) of a pokemon's max HP instead of 1/6 (16.67%) of max HP. The more I think about it, the more horrifying it gets. Let's just say I am glad Spikes are the way they are.

@dtexdarkus 7 ай бұрын

2 layers outheals 2 rounds of leftovers. For offensive pokemon that force a wall to switch in and have a teammate that will force them out the next turn, it gives teams the ability to force progress rather than being locked into a stalemate. A key example would be metagross vs swampert. Doubly so in this instance, as it prevents swampert from gaining a the full 6% from protecting after a check switches in.

@marinaaaa2735 Жыл бұрын

Two ideas I'd like to see: Fairy types in gens 3-5 Eviolite and assault vest in gen 3

@v1ultrakill730 9 ай бұрын

dragmag after fairies 😢

@kieranjo1135 Жыл бұрын

at this point hl3 will come out before that hariyama adv video lol jokes aside great to see all these uploads lately im eating good

@fulltimeslackerii8229 Жыл бұрын

and this is why ceaseless edge is so good

@bananacat7574 6 ай бұрын

“Does skarmory learn spikes?” -BKC

@jayplay8869 Жыл бұрын

Triples klefkie eject button with t wave spikes swagger crafty shield was my go to filler in my triples shadow tag perish song team.

@ShinyTillDawn Жыл бұрын

I would love 2 layers of Spikes in GSC.

@Alexcoman51 Жыл бұрын

This video was brought to you by endpert

@honjon666 Жыл бұрын

This is the one I've been waiting for!!!!

@Nako3 Жыл бұрын

I love BKC videos so much!

@PokeBrodie Жыл бұрын

what if toxic and recover crit

@hxlize4913 Жыл бұрын

i was just thinking about this a few days ago

@zenitsuyaboi9879 Жыл бұрын

Spikes are for losers who cant use luck and just HAX their way to victory

@piszanshid1953 Жыл бұрын

Unless you can attack and set up the spike at the same time. (Gen 9 moment)

@z-leigh6554 11 ай бұрын

I just realized that in gen 3, shadow ball lowers special defense but hits on the physical side. Odd.

@tomazrodrigues7006 Жыл бұрын

What if stealth rock had multiple layers?

@birdieboy02 2 ай бұрын

well i guess the 2nd layer being weak is probably better than making the 3rd layer weak

@willjoyce5013 Жыл бұрын

What I'm hearing is they should reduce the first layer to like 8-10%, would make the jump to 2 layers better plus makes the move from 16.67% to 25% more reasonable

@EarthSpirit.easyzdota Жыл бұрын

Spikes 2 Electric Bugaloo

@tysondennis1016 Жыл бұрын

There should be more moves and abilities like Stone Axe and Toxic Debris for setting up entry hazards.

@pacmanboss256 Жыл бұрын

So why is 3 layers worth it instead

@tempestgreen1125 Жыл бұрын

From a pure numbers perspective: Spikes damage goes from 12.5% -> 16.67% -> 25% The first spike is 12.5%, the second layer is 4.17%, the third layer is 8.33% From a more general sense: Chip damage gets stronger the more of it you have. Like how bkc kept stressing with out damaging swampert’s lefties, the more residual you have the faster it compounds which limits counterplay

@jaketerpening3284 Жыл бұрын

For some reason Spikes goes from 12% -> 17% -> 25%. That means the 3rd layer is adding 8% damage and thus is more than one leftovers turn, while the 2nd one only adds 5% which is less than leftovers.