The Second Legion Of Magnus The Red - 40K Theories

During the Siege of Terra, The Emperor would offer Magnus the Red, the Primarch of the Thousand Sons traitor legion, a chance to command an entirely new legion should he return to the Imperial fold. But just what exactly was this legion that The Emperor had offered to his wayward son?
This video contains spoilers for Fury of Magnus
Featuring the voice talents of Randolph Carter as The Emperor
/ supersnakekick
And Bruva Alfabusa as Malcador
/ alfabusa
Intro theme by Stringstorm
/ galiant609
Additional audio editing by Officio Audiorum
/ officioaudiorum
Additional artwork by Eliphusz, Disarmonia, Álvaro Jiménez and Koowanchee www.deviantart.com/eliphusz
www.deviantart.com/d1sarmon1a
www.artstation.com/alvarojh
www.deviantart.com/koowanchee
All art property of their respective owners
Visit Games Workshop's official site here:
www.games-workshop.com/
Support 40K Theories on Patreon:
/ 40ktheories

[@40KTheories]

*WARNING* : This video contains spoilers for Fury of Magnus. You have been warned!

[@cliffnpaige2009]

My bad.

[@Prenz01]

If magnus is in the palace where are the Custodes? Why is the emperor being defended by the space wolves and salamanders?

[@carlylebermudez8057]

Siege of Terra content? Why not put the spoiler warning in the title? 😪

[@Matthew-ws8md]

@@Prenz01 The Emperor and Malcador essentially left open a secret way into the palace for the very purpose of letting Magnus in because they knew he was the only one capable of detecting the gap in the psychic barrier. The Wolves are what's left of the pack that was seeking out the soul shards, so they're basically just carrying on the hunt, and the Salamanders are there looking for Vulkan who never returned to the surface to battle with them. If I remember right, at the end of the book, Valdor was furious that there was a path into the palace theyd kept from him and the custodes. (At least that was my reading/understanding of it all!)

[@40KTheories]

@@Matthew-ws8md Pretty much

[@Kameth]

Vulkan: ...you killed my boy. YOU ARE NOT FRIEND. Magnus: oh I may have made a MISCAL-OHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT HALP OH NO HELP

[@Carahan]

*engage orky mode* Vulkan: I HAVE BECOME THE HUGGER OF WORLDS!

[@updfdrakkell143]

is it bad i read this in the tts voices

[@Kameth]

@@updfdrakkell143 I was aiming for their style, so if it is bad, you could argue entrapment

[@updfdrakkell143]

@@Kameth ?? not sure about the second part but you nailed the tts versions. I still hear tts magnus going OHSHITOHSHIT!

[@5680009]

If Emp's had shown some, well, empathy, history could have been different. Something as simple as "I'll let your warriors fight until their honorable deaths" or something to that effect, ol' One Eye might have had a change of heart.

[@dracorex426]

Exactly! He didn't make Corvus put the Raptors down.

[@a.N.....]

Yea these steps must be taken. Hope redemption for magus but unlikely

[@Cemtexify]

@@a.N..... Magnus was the only traitor that was betrayed 1st no matter what the others claim to be the case

[@vraska8799]

one would think that an incredibly powerfull transhuman and a psyker on top of that, wouldn't need to be explained that it was expected for his warriors to fight and die the same as the other hundreds of thousands of space marines... but hey, children now-a-days...

[@____________838]

@@Cemtexify Can we have a word about Angron?

[@TherealSBlair]

The tragedy of Magnus continues to run ever deeper. The lost possibilities are as numerous as they are saddening.

[@jonathandavies1716]

It's touching that he passed on being forgiven out of love for his sons.

[@Ddarth_sidious]

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Magnus the Red?)

[@redthunderboar1323]

Yeah but really Emps never really tried. Either he's missunderstanding Magnus, or wants to fork him off to Tzeentch asap so he does not have to deal with his Psychic son ever again.

[@singletona082]

Sounds like the emperor was both trying to play to his son's want for better, and not understanding that magnus didn't want new toys. He wanted what he had fixed.

[@Sumzja]

And the dumb child simply wouldn't understand that there is no fixing what tzeench did to their genes

[@cegesh1459]

@@Sumzja No one knows what the flaw is.

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

Magnus returning to the side of the Emperor would be fantastic

[@bgcvetan]

and "very" original.

[@thecommentguy9380]

He would be able to free the emperor of his burden and allow him to start regenerating.

[@HirotheWanderer]

indeed!

[@MrMikeroffel]

Magnus Wuld not abandoned his sons

[@CleoPinto4317]

And tzeench thousand sons are too cool

[@huanquocmanh416]

It was an ogryn legion Flawless flesh, fists harder than steel and too dumb for corruption!

[@alphagonomegarius5068]

that would be actually terrifying........................and heretic.

[@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745]

Ogryns are easily corrupted

[@darrianweathington1923]

Magnus would find a way... remember. This is all his fault

[@venerablebrothergoriate5844]

Magnus would’ve hated every minute of it XD

[@FitzPenn]

Imagine an orgryn Primaris

[@arthurmclaughlin1458]

BLOOD RAVENS! "The lost sons and a Raven of blood! The worst mistake for the noblest reason!" Kallista Eris's words come true, it all comes full circle!

[@jonathantheslow]

I still think that they’re Word Bearers successors.

[@thomasblunt3404]

I have been saying this for a while now. Blood Ravens are loyalist 1000 sons!

[@robertnelson9599]

@@thomasblunt3404 They are Thousands Sons 2: No Mutating Boogaloo.

[@badgamemaster]

Ah yes, the Blood Ravens with their many many psykers in the Chapter... so many that there are almost no one.

[@franciscorui]

@@robertnelson9599 but with the emperor instead tzeetch!

[@sniperblast]

Emperor: Behold, your new legion! Magnus, tears streaming from his one eye: it’s beautiful. Before them, a thousand primaris lieutenants.

[@tylercrissman847]

Behold, 1000 Primaris Lieutenants, with Cast and Deny 2.

[@Toto-95]

i just puked

[@zeppelincraft1443]

I think that Tzeentch was REALLY salty after the emperor cheated him out of his secrets and planned the flesh change as an attempt of long-term retaliation and cursed the legion. Since the mutation is not the emperor's, Gene-cults or even potentially Magnus' fault. Then there is only one explanation. Also the Emperor telling Magnus to drop the legion because it is tainted tells us the legion was the problem all along.

[@supercellodude]

Magnus himself did not experience the flesh change (although that eye was lost in a sorcerous ritual before his recovery). The ruinous powers did kidnap the infant Primarchs, but we might need to wait for details on if those 4 floating reality tumors planted aspects for the Primarchs to become corrupted later

[@Will91289]

I've always wondered if the problem is Magnus's gene-seed, After all, he was, akin to the Emperor, able to change his appearance at will (even Lorgar asked of Magnus " ‘I’m speaking of your… facelessness. You are as powerful as him, and your face dances in the same way ... Have any of us even seen your real face? Did you ever have two eyes?' "). Being that he is a practically (or even truly) immortal being of near-infinite potential, what happens when all that potential is rendered and given to a being, although powerful, is also just a mortal. what if the flesh change is simply a mortal being attempting (and failing) to become a demi-immortal being

[@zeppelincraft1443]

@@Will91289 The thing is, naturally the Flesh-change is a mutation when one mortal fails to break through his boundaries. But you must also question, making a space marine is artificial mutation too in a sense. If one is bestowed too much changes in one go, the result is predictable. It would overload.

[@jeambeam3173]

@@Will91289 that's an interesting point you make like trying to put even a fraction of Magnus's psychic energy into a normal even enhanced human body of an astarte can result in you just randomly mutating from al the psychic energy

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@zeppelincraft1443 The first of the flesh change mutation only appeared after the Thousand Sons battled a world of only psychers (really well trained and powerful sun worshipping psycher cultists). Additionally, the creation of Magnus was really different as it was hinted to be a "pact" or something similar like that (like a binding or something) and that broke after his back got broken. I think all gene-crafted species designed to harness the warp will suffer some form of deadly mutation or disease like the Psychically attuned Eldar turning to crystals.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

"He broke my spine!" Magnus, upon questioning by the Emperor of Mankind

[@ThrawnFett123]

"I punched out one of his HEARTS why does no one ever remember that!?!?!"

[@GreatChickenGod]

i believe the Flesh Change is part of Magnus' gene seed, due to his ability to shape change. Since his sons don't have his degree of control over the ability, the shape change ability goes out of control in the Thousand Sons marines

[@bjarkev1296]

This is the best explaination I have heard for it.

[@NiskRanThawll]

if that was the case then it was the emperors doing, and his offer was a hollow effort to save his life and install Magnus on the throne as intended all along. the legions first recruits were taken from the genes used to create Magnus BEFORE he was yeeted into the warp and Tzeentch went all Slaanesh on him ;P If what the snake/deamon tells Magnus in the ancient Eldar/Necrontyr temple is correct (and we have no reason to assume otherwise) then the flesh change was wrought BY Tzeench in order to turn Magnus by selling his soul to save his sons. the Emperor offered him the same deal at the cost of his sons for his NEW legion. Magnus couldn't accept this offer if he wanted to, as he'd ALREADY given part of himself to Tzeentch to save his sons.

[@venerablebrothergoriate5844]

That actually makes a lot of sense

[@Yumao420]

@@NiskRanThawll maybe they had this capacity in a latent state and Tzeench simply activated it

[@sindrimyr5351]

I read the book (was one of the mad Men who got the collectors edition) and even though it's tragic he didn't chose to rejoin emps I get him. Even Vulkan begrudgingly can't answer Magnus if he was in his situation if he would accept. Magnus said he couldn't accept... For each time he would look at this new legion he would be haunted by the memories of the sons he gave up. What pushed him over the edge though was ttht both Vulkan and Emps fully expected him to accept.... And even agrier at himself for considering it for a second. During the battle Vulkan says "really? You couldn't sacrifice a thousand sons for the chance of redemption? " To which Magnus answers " Even a single one would have been too much". I really liked this book

[@benott2375]

Magnus punched one of his hearts out why dose no-one remember that

[@JimboDoomface]

whoses?

[@nicknameramnotram5226]

@@JimboDoomface Leman Russ's.

[@chosenofkhorne2951]

The emperor: wanna have a new legion? Magnus: yes? Emperor: gonna kill some innocent people and join a dictatorship that believes that religion and free speech are herecy and also you need to kill all of your sons Magnus : are you sure you are the good guy?

[@yasser.r8350]

Because one was still standing while the other was broken.

[@darrianweathington1923]

Because it's stupid

[@gryphonofmight]

I wouldnt be surprised if this was a second attempt at the Raptor project

[@w0lfgm]

It can be done only within Alpha Legion with good results.

[@robertnelson9599]

Big E could of restarted it, seeing as he still had the Sangprimus Portum and he made the original space marines.

[@w0lfgm]

@@robertnelson9599 He could, but he is busy keepeng door closed will all Custodians, Sister and Legio Sinister. In basis, he is so deep that all resources are poured into the breach, that even the Battle for Terra is secondary thing.

[@chaoslance4959]

@@w0lfgm Well he could still employ someone else to do it. My knowladge of timelines is a bit fuzzy, but I believe Director Ezekiel Sedayne should still be around - and even if not, Sedayne's knowladge got yeeted into Cawl, something Malcador could be aware of. Speaking of, Malcador himself could start this new side-project.

[@w0lfgm]

@@chaoslance4959 He Is there but I don't think tat Big E would trust him.

[@gordonfreeman2023]

A part of me thinks the Emperor was bullshitting. I mean, given the emperor's character, I could see him thinking the best way to coax back Magnus is offering a 'flawless' legion, not understanding that Magnus cared for his flawed sons. Why? Because Emps needed a powerful psychic to plug up the hell hole on Terra. Plus, he must've known the 'good' part of Magnus was already used for Janus.

[@dracorex426]

Clearly Janus didn't take all of Magnus's goodness, considering Magnus was able to be civil with Malcador, Vulcan, and even Emps, and calmed down multiple times. And there were probably options to reunite Magnus with the bit of his soul in Janus.

[@flameknightplayz2939]

They were bullshitting, Malcador lied about the shards' whereabouts saying that it's forever gone. He also lied that the shards are all him not aspects of him which is entirely false, they were all missing something and Magnus is missing that pure shard of himself, there were good and bad shards and Malcador lied saying that "there are no good or bad shards, they are all you" bullshit, the fucking good Father shard did his best to stop the corrupted crimson king along with the sorcerous evil pride/arrogance shard even if it meant the death of all the shards during the event of the second rubric (Ahriman was just a pawn in the war of the Shards, the real players were the good vs bad shards of Magnus i.e Father, Crimson King, the one manipulating Astreos) bunch of lying shits.

[@supercellodude]

I mean, The Emperor intended for a healthy, human Magnus to sit upon the Golden Throne to manage the segments of the Webway connected by Him. Although Magnus would have been busy with this task, he would be *alive* and possibly able to carve out sanctioned psychic powers after repairing the damage to the Webway with the Emperor's cooperation.

[@doomguy9049]

If the Emperor was lying he would have lied about being able to cure magnus’s tainted sons as well, basically told him whatever he needed to hear to win him back into the fold and not just fairytales about new legions and perfect flesh. Malcador as well would have been able to come up with a better bunch of lies to keep magnus civil and open minded rather than being incinerated if he and the emperor planned to just BS him into sitting on the throne. The Emperor is a bad parent but I don’t think he’s lying in this instance, just too lacking in guile or tact to be able to relate to his son and too arrogant to actually apologize or forgive and love his cyclopean ghost of a failson

[@bagrym]

which is what makes me think that the offered legion might have been the custodes as magnus caretakers for when he sits on the throne for eternity, or maybe the primaris marines

[@dracorex426]

A lot of people are forgetting that Big Bobby G started the Primaris project *after* the Emperor committed die.

[@hamarbiljungskile8953]

Everything's canon. Nothing's canon.

[@northernnaysayer1240]

He also spoke to 'Cawl' before he sat on the golden throne by having a convo with a very confused geneticist that becomes part of Cawls gestalt consciousness. Big E can read possibilities of the future through the power of prescience, which he passed to his 'sons' Sanguinius and Kurze. So in theory Cawl just continued Astartes' work with Big Es permission before Cawl even knew that's what he was going to do... These timeline jumps are mega weird but I sense they have an important part in the future meta.

[@Drew_Thompson]

Emperor: "Listen Magnus, if you want to make a better world you're going to have to get used to watching your sons die". Magnus: ಠ_ಠ

[@gryphonofmight]

Part of me is always tempted to say the Blood ravens but i doubt it so I agree with Grey Knights

[@gloriousmongoose]

@Lorenzo Panza they’ve never outright confirmed it, and there are far too many hints otherwise

[@AGS363]

@Lorenzo Panza I am interested. The Magnus/Blood Ravens was very strong at the time of Dawn of War (I). I wonder what changed...

[@AGS363]

@Lorenzo Panza Thank you very much! Seems that the change of the lore stepped over the Blood Ravens.

[@gryphonofmight]

@Lorenzo Panza i actually believe the blood ravens are loyalist word bearers

[@chuckwood3426]

​@Lorenzo Panza The Blood Ravens are probably a synthetic or heavily modified legion. If they were actually descended directly from some other legion then they could just make a DNA test to see who the daddy was. That said it must probably have a little bit of traitor in them, otherwise they would know and worship their ancestor. The fact that they dont know means that the imperium dont want them to know who their daddy is.

[@freddymylove-dk]

Magnus - "Would you sacrifice them, would you betray one of them for your own desire?" Vulkan - "I could not..." Magnus The Red, asking Vulkan if he could make that choice for his own legion.

[@bigalzo5311]

As usual the emperor being a bad father, telling his angry son to forget about your sons and being a Father to them, adopt these new kids. All he has to say is I forgive you and want to help fix his sons and the one who cause all this problem in the first place is the demons since he can’t hide their existence anymore

[@D2017_]

Grey Knight Primarch Magnus? Man, that'd be cool. I'm just imagining his new armor now!

[@MrLansonman]

it will be fulgrims clone who will be offered redemption , somehow escaping trazyn the infinite either by divine or plot armour means , he might even be offered a new legion to oppose a possibly ascending slaanash army, just a thought

[@supercellodude]

Fulgrim's soul was transmuted into that serpent-shaped Daemon. Unless that's still the Daemon from the blade of Laer in control, the Primarch clones will be incomplete despite Fabius Bile's machinations. The Gene-cults were one large piece if the puzzle, but the Emperor entered the Warp at Molech for a reason. Psychic/soul engineering made the Primarchs what they were/are

[@killinspecialist1965]

yes he will have to prove his loyalty to Guilliman but once he does he will take command of his loyalist sons (looking at you Sons of The Phoenix) hopefully Cawl works out a deal with the homie Trayzyn to get him released soon Roboute is getting lonely being the only loyalist primarch around and could probably use some help rebuilding the Imperium

[@samhobbs9116]

@@revu34 I would also love it to be 4 because that whole debacle was awful but I actually see it being 3. Whatever part of original Fulgrim still existed, tormented in Snakegrims head prison, felt the creation of a new perfect body and just yeeted himself into the new body. Would give Clonegrim good cause to go after Bile as well and a fully reinstated loyalist Fulgrim in front of Bile would probably just break his brain.

[@supercellodude]

@Rill Was Fabius Bile aware of the arrangement with the Blade of Laer? Considering his distaste(?) for calling the warp entities "gods", he might accept manipulation of spirit as another science and sought to preserve himself but also keep an "out" for Fulgrim. He's loyal to humanity (kinda), and he sees his projects for the "New Men" as cast in the mold of the Emperor's intent. Does a non-daemon Fulgrim fit in that future?

[@viewernewest]

His reward is obvious, the legion of the damned!

[@drakeyork241]

I really hope that, that would not be the case but instead that the emperor meant that the current thousands sons would join the legion of the dammed so that the legion of the dammed could show up with new phykers and f*** even more sh*t when they are deployed by THE GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND. And then an entirely new legion would be given to magnus. But magnus decided to be a moron and not listen to the entire offer but instead try to kill the emperor again SO WE WILL NEVER KNOW IF THAT IS WHAT THE EMPEROR MEANT!

[@bigmoe9856]

@@drakeyork241The Thunder Warriors suggest otherwise.

[@drakeyork241]

@@bigmoe9856 what?

[@bigmoe9856]

@@drakeyork241 you said the original thousand sons would join Magnus' new legion. I'm very certain the emperor would have them eradicated.

[@drakeyork241]

@@bigmoe9856 oh! That’s what you meant.

[@Tillman581]

Heh, the irony of Vulcan getting mad and trying to kill Magnus at one of his sons being killed, but hoping Magnus would accept the death of all of his. Great plan Pops!

[@DeathSithe92]

It annoys me severely that it seems everyone is able to EASILY overcome magnus in combat, its almost laughable who or WHAT defeats magnus with a great deal of ease whenever the story calls for it.....

[@admiralmurphy1543]

Maybe Magnus just overthinks things.

[@Kameth]

Magnus be hitting the books, not the gym.

[@TheNicoBozo]

I think that part of the why is that all Primarch are supposed to be warp/psyker resistant.

[@konigstiger3252]

Just like Avatars =) So many bad writers...

[@sindrimyr5351]

The thing is... He is actually a good fighter and was about to win every single fight.... If it was truly 1 vs 1. Magnus vs Russ: Magnus was about to deliver the killing blow to Russ... When suddenly Russ 2 wolves jumped in nd allowed Russ to break free. Magnus vs Vulkan: Magnus was about to split open vulkans skull... But one of vvulkns sons jumped in and saved him. Magnus vs Guilliam: Magnus wrecks Guilliam on Luna.... Gets saved by the arrival of sisters of silence. As said... If it was 1 vs 1 he wins... But someone always jumps in

[@franekkus546]

The story of Magnus is even more tragic now. His choice was either to let all of his sons die, or die himself. Even Vulkan wouldn't have done otherwise in his place

[@z2ei]

The possibility of Magnus switching sides (again) might be the most interesting "what if" of the Heresy.

[@gryphonofmight]

Last time I was this early, Magnus hadn't ruined the webway project and doomed humanity

[@prussiankingdom1693]

Yeah, for me, I arrived to prospero before leman

[@1IGG]

Magnus did nothing wrong!

[@D2017_]

@@1IGG the guy made endless mistakes before he even ruined the webway. He made deals with demons for example. He can't plead ignorance either, he understood demons. Later, instead of helping his boys once the space wolves showed up, he let them get massacred so he could attempt to prove a point. After many thousand sons got killed, he jumped in anyway, abandoning the point he was trying to prove. Plus, he knew he would eventually join the fight because he can see into the future. So he just let them get beat on for a while for seemingly no reason.

[@chrisbennett6236]

You make it sound like it was an outright malicious act on Magnus' part.

[@emperordankiest9570]

Last time i was this early, Ahriman wasnt a disappointment yet

[@svagglaorde4387]

Some where within the webway Cegorach is laughing at Magnus' mood jokes and he now knows the Fury of Magnus is a funny book.

[@chenli9778]

Maybe the Big E just trying to fool Magnus and there is now second Legion for him at all. And even if Magnus Did Agree the Big E's Deal, I doubt those Legionaries around him would just stand down and accept their probably demise as Big E just said they are beyond Redemption.

[@chenli9778]

@@augustuslunasol10thapostle Nope, but seriously they did nothing wrong, like they didn't make their own flesh change, right?

[@iamcaesar6741]

The Emperor will just say Kneel and just like the Word Bearers everyone drops to their knees and can’t move in disbelief.

[@Triumph263]

But if he were why would he say the Thousands Son's were damned? If it was complete BS why give him something that is a complete deal breaker?

[@spartana1116]

I'm surprised that the emperor didn't tried to explain to magnus that the burning of Prospero was not his command and instead it was horus

[@Fourtytwo4242]

Magnus most likely already knew, he just did not care.

[@powerflumi]

@@augustuslunasol10thapostle nope at the time of siege Magnus already knew

[@BerserkingGator]

Malcador and Magnus discussed it in this book, before he tiki torched him (on accident).

[@iamcaesar6741]

That has been my doubt about Magnus all this time. He is a Loyal Prime-arch, why didn’t the Emperor convince him that Horus misinformed Russ and this was a misunderstanding he could communicate to Magnus directly since he was totally committed fighting the hordes of demons flooding the Webway at the time. Magnus should have automatically switch and acted to seek revenge against Hours and the Lunar Wolves.

[@Rammkommando]

@@iamcaesar6741 i think its because since they always planned to make the thousand sons and thus magnus as traitors, they wrote themselves into a hole with him and instead of trying to rewrite it they wrote it in a way where he would still be a traitor

[@baldermort]

Magnificent as always. grand Master. I soooo need to read faster. I’ll never keep up. Lol. Brilliant video. Adored it.

[@Or_Am_I_Alpharius]

Remnants of the II or XI, possible a new generation of Astartes from his gene-seed with no previous ties to the Thousand Sons. Edit: OR since one of his last shards was with who-would-become Janus, Magnus would become the pseudo-primarch of the Grey Knights

[@FitzPenn]

Heck even a literal Primarch if they decided to make it a regular legion going forth.

[@azraeldelune2096]

I second the primaris theorum.

[@donperez8774]

Would prototype second-gen Magnus marines free of the flesh change curse (but not with all the extra features the Emperor spoke of) actually be ... The Blood Ravens?

[@bloodraven7237]

NO

[@iainhansen1047]

Yes

[@chaoslance4959]

100%

[@barklordofthesith2997]

ANGRY MARINES

[@jakecarroll9500]

Probably a dumb question, but couldn’t the Thousand Sons just have their gene seed glads, for lack of a better phrase, swapped like how the earliest proto-Grey Knights were?

[@Brutalyte616]

The issue is the potential corruption of the Thousand Sons themselves. Magnus may have been an exception, but there are hints that his Legion were already corrupted by Tzeentch, and the Flesh Change was just the most extreme example of this.

[@commissarlugh1040]

@@Brutalyte616 fucking erebus

[@KopitioBozynski]

@@commissarlugh1040 Worse than that, a nameless parasite that stole even the name of erebus.

[@Deamon93IT]

IMHO the moat likely option are the Grey Knights, although I wouldn't exclude a reformed Thousand Sons. After all Janus was created using a shard of Magnus, used to cure the Flesh Change. If so it would appear that it is possible to cure this genetic defect. Would have been awesome to see Magnus back into the fold but alas Tzeench claimed him way before he went to meet Big E

[@zombielizard218]

Primaris Space Marines. The Emperor is offering Magnus a legion of Primaris.

[@konigstiger3252]

No, just no

[@ZeroNumerous]

Yeah. That's clearly what he's doing. Primaris Thousand Sons would be more resistant to the flesh change, as Primaris are apparently very resistant to the gene flaws of their primarches. They are also apparently incredibly hard to corrupt. And finally Primaris marines are demonstrably "greater than any warriors now living". The problem with the assumption that the Grey Knights are the Legion being offered is that the Grey Knights are neither a Legion, nor are they Magnus' Legion. They have no loyalty to Magnus, no connection to him(Janus aside), and are "merely" a chapter of Librarians. They aren't greater warriors than the current Librarians, just more numerous. Furthermore, the plans to create the Primaris were actually already in motion. Guilliman had already seen the weaknesses of standard space marines, and only needed to make it to Mars to commission his changes.

[@killinspecialist1965]

@Rill actually so far we've seen that they are more resistant to those as well but no one is immune to them

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

@@konigstiger3252 well it's known Cawl merely finished of a work of the emperor. Maybe the emperor is talking about whatever incomplete project Cawl used as a basis.

[@daywither927]

Ahh, Salamanders. Trying to save their straight up immortal primarch and getting killed instead. Classic.

[@thomascrabtree]

“Surprisingly civilised conversation”... Magnus literally kills Malcador and only his eternal companion giving up her life force saves him.

[@40KTheories]

The conversation was civilised before Malcador dropped the bombshell about his soul shard :P

[@Detahramet]

Honestly, all He had to do was say "Yo Lil Red, I'll forgive you and your sons, but their geneseed is trash so we won't use it to make new marines. Instead, they can stick around and we'll make new marines with this other, not completely fucked geneseed. Malcador has this preem Grey Knight shit that you are gonna love."

[@jesseberg3271]

Does anyone else feel like the Emperor is... I don't want to say, an idiot, but that he just doesn't seem to understand humans? I mean basic stuff, like, don't set people up in a parent and children relationship and then ask the parent to abandon the children.

[@sofija1996]

Some people say that either he always was or he became (thanks to his incredibly long lifespan) a sociopath unable to empathize with people, seeing all kinds of sacrifices as justifiable if they're for some kind of "greater good", working towards his goals with cold efficiency no matter the cost. Others speculate that he accumulated so much trauma that now he tries to cut himself away from his emotions and keeps others at a distance because he fears he won't be able to live through any more pain and loss. Pick your poison.

[@ryancrazyrhino8976]

2:42 The Art work of Magnus and Malcador playing chess is beautiful, Eliphusz did it again that beautiful bastard

[@TippyCraft]

I think its a pretty spot on theory that it would have been the Grey Knights. Malcador implanting a shard of Magnus soul into Revuel to make Janus, kinda makes me think that was just one part of the plan to bring Magnus back into the fold.

[@wumbumtm3138]

Huh, so Magnus cared more about his sons than the Emperor did

[@baldermort]

Best high end lore on the platform. The end. Thank you!!! :)

[@Duppyman695]

*ONE* of the best high end lore on this platform....... lol

[@ethan-youtubetips6577]

You got me hooked for the whole video. When is it coming out? Thumbs up 👍

[@donperez8774]

"(Clapping sound) Bravo, Inquisitor Remleiz. Now y'all know what kind of alert and caring Golden Dad we were dealing with. See, Magnus would do anything for his legion. He loved them mutant runts of his, maybe more than any of us other primarchs. I should know -- I would have killed the Thousand Sons during the Great Crusade for acting like a human shield in front of a tower of forbidden knowledge that His Golden Wisdom ordered us to obliterate, but Magnus, bookhugger he was, put every inch of his power to protect it and them from our attacks. Eventually Magnus, in great self-inflicted pain, surrendered his little insurrection and told his legion to go back home -- all his psychic powers couldn't tell him I'm not a primarch you play chicken against. "But yeah, he loved them Sons. Unlike myself, who would gladly punch in the navigation coordinates for a drive into a star if I was again stuck in a ship with the gaggle of criminal idiots Father gave me as a legion. Magnus even sold his soul to save them from the inside-out ailment Dad just shrugged his shoulders at (chortling, whispering 'and some of you think Magnus did nothing wrong')." "So what does the All Knowing Father do when Magnus shows up? 'All is forgiven, My boy -- if you sell out your sons.' The sons the one-eyed whiner has literally and physically gone to hell and back for and made deals with the devils with, mortgaging his soul, their lives and home planet in the process. Can't blame my brother for saying eff no to that, then trying to strike the Galaxy's Greatest Room Reader down before the jolly green giant primarch blocked his shot. Course, Magnus further showed us moments later how so smart he was by selling the remainder of his soul to an untrustworthy warp squid that likely started the whole thing, but that's fate, folks. (Laughs)" -- From a warp-residue covered vox recording obtained by The Inquisition; voice confirmed to be that of Night Lords Primarch Konrad Curze, but dated ... today.

[@giorgigogolashvili3097]

Magnus is on the top of "caring about your legion" Primarch list

[@Kunori]

I think the Emperor should have said "tell you what, we'll put them in stasis, I don't know if we'll be able to find a cure or when we can start looking for one since things are a mess right now, but we'll try". Also it's kind of weird that you can be turned into a daemon at all while in a place that's blocked off to daemons?

[@theemperorofmankind7706]

We were this close to having magnus back. But alas...it was never to be

[@dracorex426]

There *IS* time travel going on.

[@hoanguyenthai9170]

@@dracorex426 uhm, excuse me but what do you mean?

[@toddolson4614]

@@hoanguyenthai9170 Word Bearers going back in time and stealing/scattering the primarchs for Chaos.

[@theemperorofmankind7706]

@@toddolson4614 wait WHAT!?

[@toddolson4614]

@@theemperorofmankind7706 one of the Early Horus Heresy books covered it. It has been many years since reading it and I no longer have the book. One/some of the Word Bearers was given the opportunity to see the Primarchs being created and they were involved in the scattering of the Primarchs.

[@ashbannana6286]

I thought that The Emperor was referring to the Raptora project. This seems hinted at by the implication that the new legion would be stronger then current Space Marines. However I also think that Magnus was enraged to learn that his original sons were half baked rush jobs which is what probably allowed for the fleshchange to take hold.

[@O-P-96]

A bit unrelated, but regarding the Blood Ravens origins, could it be possible that they are Thousand Sons that hadn't yet reunited with their brothers and were later cured by the Second Rubric of Ahriman? Because it did bring back at least one Rubric Marine to normal, and in typical Tzeentch fashion, I could see it as a case of "You failed but actually no" where Ahriman is unaware his Rubric was far more effective than just the result he had before him.

[@gryphonofmight]

there is more evidence they are loyalist word bearers

[@ogburnher]

@@gryphonofmight Collecting relics from everywhere sound like a word bearer to me. Look at the relic hype in medieval times by the christs. (sorry for bad english)

[@geistverrse]

just popping in to say my boy doing a fantastic Emperor voice at 5:00.

[@frankeast947]

Yooooo TTS is becoming more and more cannon lol

[@bentaylor809]

I like the idea that Magnus' brand new Armada would be derived from the Gene Seed of Janus. I like the idea all Grey knights are derived from the gene seed of Janus, who, by way of being combined with Magnus' soul, has a gene seed closer to Magnus himself, so having the genetic stability Magbus has rather than the instability of his sons. Perhaps this would be combined with the Primaris Emperor type, an astartes similar to Primaris but from the Emperors own hand. Fun thought

[@UGNAvalon]

I’ve always wondered about Magnus potentially leading the Grey Knights. Thanks for this video!

[@RevantheBlack]

Last time I was this early Horus had just killed the Emperor on the world of Terra

[@TheKnizzine]

Hasn't magnus just kinda been mediating for like the last 1000 years and wouldn't siding with Teeznch just for power then flipping sides be like something Teeznch would get off on? As far as I can tell Magnus hasn't done anything he can't walk back.

[@BlackHawkTZ]

Except y'know, the whole opening his soul to demonic corruption. But that's just a minor detail

[@ZeroNumerous]

Except for how literally everything Magnus has done can't be walked back? The Human Webway Project is 100% dead and unfixable, according to the Emperor. The entire Thousand Sons legion is 97% dead and made of suits filled with dust, with only the tiny fraction of psykers still alive. His soul is 100% daemon now, and belongs to a Chaos God. He even recovered the shard of Janus and now has no possible hope for redemption. And finally even Tzeentch doesn't like him that much and favors Ahriman over Magnus because Ahriman does stuff. Every single thing Magnus touches is irreversibly broken.

[@northernnaysayer1240]

@@ZeroNumerous I agree, but find it hideously bullshit that the webway project is irreversibly fucked. So they manage to reconnect a disconnected webway portal and reinforce the webway that had been destroyed around the connection. Magnus tears a comparatively small hole, everything's unfixable. Bullshit, just patch it and reinforce it like you've been doing this entire time, given what had already been achieved, it must have been within thier power.

[@TheKnizzine]

@@ZeroNumerous all you gotta do is pull the corpse out of the chair and plug in literally any of his psyker clone children and the thing is fixed they are him.

[@chuckwood3426]

@@ZeroNumerous Wait? Was the Janus chard reabsorbed? When did that happen? Also Ahriman hates Tzeench so thats a one sided love.

[@MrMortull]

Willingly accepted eternal damnation rather than abandon his poor, flawed sons... Magnus is a much better father than the Emperor.

[@caelumis3630]

Well... this episode has inspired this bout of madness, enjoy! *Meanwhile, within the TTS-Universe* *"OH"* "Oh?" Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, casted a questioning and furrowed brow at his father. The exclamation, like much of his father's as of late, was sudden... direct... and lacked any build up of context or logic behind their utterance. However, thankfully as predictable as the outbursts themselves usually are... after being followed by -and indeed were now coming in like a Inwit Blizzard- a cascade of expletives of such ferocity that if The Emperor had been able to use his own voice would've struck a mortal dead on the spot... usually were then followed by a... somewhat... reasonable explanation. Waiting out the tirade about copulation and fecal matter, The Emperor finally managed a coherent sentence. *"I JUST REMEMBERED SOMETHING."* "Not surprising, Father, being bound to the Golden Throne *has* addled your memory considerably." *"SHUT THE FUCK UP. I JUST REMEMBERED... I DID CREATE THE GREY KNIGHTS WITH MALCADOR."* A crackled sniffle emitted through the vox-grill as Dorn nodded, "I recall, I was there after all. I did wonder how long it would take you to remember your hand in their making, and it appears I won my bet with Magnus." *"NO, YOU DON'T GET IT, YOU GOLDEN GOBLIN. I ALSO REMEMBERED WHY I MADE THE GREY KNIGHTS AS WELL."* "I recall Vulkan telling me they were originally supposed to be a gift, but he never elaborated beyond that. He looked... sad. Vulkan being sad is always a terrifying thing to see." The Emperor went deathly quiet for what seemed like an eternity for Rogal. Whatever it was that the Emperor remembered must've shook him, or upset him in some way. Which, in that case, *had* to mean it was related to his sons in some way. To be honest with himself, Rogal *had* felt an inkling of that what had spurred the Emperor into creating the Grey Knights had a reason beyond the obvious tear in the Webway that led into the damnable Immaterium... but for the life of him he never knew what it could be. He was jarred out of his thoughts by the crackle of the Text-to-Speech Devices Vox: *"IT WAS DURING THE HEIGHT OF FUCKING HORUS'S TEMPER TANTRUM. MAGNUS HAD DECIDED TO DROP BY AND PAY ME A VISIT. I WAS GOING TO WELCOME HIM BACK TO THE IMPERIUM, FORGIVE HIM FOR HIS ACTIONS THAT TORE MY BEAUTIFUL WEBWAY PROJECT. I NEVER COULD FIX HIS SONS, THE FUCKING NERD TZEENTCH'S FLESH CHANGE IS TOO FUCKING-ASS STUBBORN TO TRULY REMOVE FROM THE GENE-SEED. SO I MADE HIM A NEW LEGION, THE 21ST."* "You mean to say, the Grey Knights are in truth the 21st Legion of the Space Legions?" *"YES, AND THEY WERE MEANT TO BE MAGNUS'S NEW FORCE TO STRIKE FEAR INTO THE HEARTS OF CHAOS... POTENTIALLY EVEN FINALLY CLEARING OUT THE HOARD OF DEMONS OUT OF THE WEBWAY."* Rogal hurmmed thoughtfully as he played out in his mind's eye Magnus's reaction if his Father were to remind Magnus of that dusty part of their history. It honestly *could* go either way: Magnus *was* now actively looking for ways to redeem himself for Father and prove he wasn't always prone to failure, despite Father's attestations. However... and he knew this through his own experience... the love Magnus held for the Thousand Sons was very much like the love Rogal himself held to his beloved Imperial Fists... scrimshawing his severed hand aside. Reminding him that there was effectively an entire replacement Legion to his children *could* rouse the fury of Magnus once more... and Rogal *really* didn't want to need to lead a new expedition to repair the Palace. The last time caused a thousand menials to become lost within its labyrinthine halls. "Magnus might not be happy if you simply reminded him he has a new Legion to command, Father. He holds his sons very dear to him." *"SHUT-UP, ROGAL. REMEMBER OUR VOX-CAST WITH URIAH?"* "Yes, I believe we've almost fully put down the insurrections his visit caused." *"I SAID SHUT THE FUCK UP! IN THAT VOX-CAST, I ISSUED A BLANKET PARDON TO THE ENTIRETY OF THE THOUSAND SONS LEGION, INVITING THEM BACK INTO THE IMPERIAL FOLD."* "Ah-I see, you plan on gifting two Legions for Magnus to command." *"IF MY PLAN IS SUCCESSFUL, THE THOUSAND SONS WILL BE HEALED OF THEIR BLIGHT FOREVER, AND WE CAN FINALLY REBRAND THE GREY KNIGHTS INTO SOMETHING MORE COLORFUL AND LESS AWFUL! THEY REALLY NEED TO WORK ON REDESIGNING THEIR ARMOR!"* "Magnus might actually be pleased with this." *"YES. SO SHUT THE FUCK UP TILL EVERYTHING FALLS INTO PLACE."* "As you wish, Father."

[@Connordaboss45]

I just think the emperor lied to him

[@SC1ENCEP1E]

one thing that frustrates me with HH is that so many of the shorts and Novellas contain nothing but filler so it's tempting to skip them, then one like Fury of Magnus comes along and holy crap does a lot happen in this Novella

[@Lykyk]

"his one and only chance at redemption" Didn't Magnus have like half a dozen by now?

[@Daal169]

This sole lore moment debunks the "did nothing wrong" arguement lmao

[@athatcher9367]

Magnus did a lot of stupid shit, but even Vulcan, the least dickish primarch, admits he wouldn’t have accepted that kind of deal. He ignored his dad’s magic ban (admittedly it wasn’t explained to him like it should have been, but Magnus should have at least expected it to be for a reason) He broke the magic barrier of the webway (I am not sure he even actually needed to, I read once that it was a short cut) He didn’t fight back on Prospero until they were already losing He didn’t psyker nuke Horus’s ship immediately upon finding out what happened, after prospero. But I do not understand how him saying “I will not abandon my children” is somehow one of the bad things he did... it had horrific consequences, but I don’t think any of the Primarchs would have accepted that. No good father would have either.

[@texasallstar6969]

the argument is only for pre heresy. post heresy every primarch that was not a loyalist is a full blow traitor.

[@athatcher9367]

@@texasallstar6969 true

[@BlizzardofKnives]

Or the Emperor was lying.

[@texasallstar6969]

he was.

[@Duppyman695]

Again!

[@steffenronsch8881]

Like always

[@automatics1im]

Good voice acting.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

I'm actually confused about this book since this seems to retcon quite a lot, including malcador getting slain by magnus

[@40KTheories]

Don't worry, Malcador got better.

[@Demigodish4o3]

@@40KTheories Just imagined the charred skeleton raising a thumbs up.

[@barklordofthesith2997]

I'm no WH40K lore expert but i thought Malcador died from sitting on the golden throne for a few to keep the webway portal closed off from demons.

[@bwtrader]

Probably was a clone.. he’s a purpetual as well right? He’ll be fine in 5 min

[@vontheunknown7982]

I'm calling it now the blood ravens are from the thousands sons

[@oblivionnow92]

Yea magnus coming back to the emperor is one of the biggest gets mankind could get.

[@judgestrix5106]

Could possibly be that even back then The Emperor planned on implementing the Primaris Project but due to the outcome of the Horus Heresy he had to use Roboute to push Cawl to do it instead.

[@timm2428]

Now see that little line there about new warrios is how they should have introduced the primaris marines.

[@systemhalodark]

Magnus preferred Tzeentch to Matt Ward. A real Chad.

[@messageinthebottle1673]

Before watching 👀 the video and see the title and thumbnail: please be blood raven 🙏 After video: okay it seems likely to be greyknights. However I want to point out that the secret vaults of the blood raven chapter is lock away with a symbol from the inquisition of the order malluies which they specialize fighting demons. On top of that blood raven has a group call "secret masters" that just so happens to specialize in fighting demons 😈 and sometimes their librarians has red skin appearance like chief librarian Jonah Orion. Sooo way to many connections. If not then I most likely blood raven are word bearers loyalists.

[@luisjlopez8725]

5:14 the BLOOD RAVENS!

[@samhobbs9116]

10/10 wanted this retcon and loyalist Magnus once more

[@Ether101_Prime]

Maybe he was talking about the Talon project?

[@Duppyman695]

Could be the Raptor project, but Im swayed towards Grey Knights due to them all being psychers !

[@johnclement189]

Magnus : Father, if you're going give me a new legion. What's going to happen in my first one? Emperor : Dusty bois needs to go. Ahriman : *FUCK YOU MAGNUS!* *Snap* **turns to sand**

[@AGS363]

Flawless Legion,...Already in Motion,...Connection to Magnus.... I have to say, it all points to the Grey Knights.

[@chadcuckproducer1037]

It would make sense to have a psyker legions of both offensive and defensive specialities when considering there are both offensive and defensive masters are siege craft in the iron warriors and imperial fists.

[@Alva_Lombax]

Just like Ancient Rylanor, Magnus deserved better I know it might be too late, but I really hope theres still a way for Magnua to be redeemed

[@bloodwolfkoji]

This is what happens when the Emperor offers a perfectly valid and tempting offer to rejoin humanity's defenders, ITS ALWAYS GOOD TO FUCKING ACCEPT IT

[@matenzo]

I'd love to hear more about that magnus-malcador-vulcan-emperor encounter

[@Leifthrasir]

The Grey Knights lead by Magnus would of been epic.

[@w0lfgm]

Well that explains everything. The Grey Knights are larger than Chapter, warp storm explain mutations of XV.

[@timezerohour8864]

Welp can't say Magnus did not love his sons and tried to be a good father.

[@Daleksaresupreme1]

This has been my fan theory for years

[@farseeraradrel4808]

Commenting a bit late, but given that upon Magnus's receiving the proposal, the Warriors of the Shattered Legion recovered the artefact that would later lead to the creation of the Primaris Space Marines (as shown in the novel Sons of the Selenar), perhaps the Emperor intended to replace each of the remaining Legions with a new generation of Space Marines that he created himself, pulling the genocide treatement on the TS due to the Flesh Change. We know Cawl worked based on the Emperor's own work and given that he seems to had a vision of the Emperor in Belisarius Cawl : the Great Work, perhaps Cawl knew partially of this project and tried to replicate it as best he could through the Primaris Guilliman demanded of him, using an artefact the Emperor had ordered secured for the aftermath of the Heresy.

[@AlexWithington]

Straight away said Grey Knights without thinking about it so yea there is that

[@YouthRightsRadical]

I like to think the Emperor was trying to get Magnus to go full Chaos during this conversation. At this point, it had been made very clear that Magnus trying to help the Imperium was consistently making things worse for the Imperium. The Emperor, having basic pattern recognition skills, decided that if he could make Magnus decide to join Chaos, it would be Chaos that would be sabotaged by Magnus' good intentions. Thus the Imperium endured for the next ten thousand years while the forces of Chaos accomplished sweet fuck all.

[@taten-jinmu718]

I think either Magnus leading the grey knights OR that the Primaris project was being implemented long before the current time and it would be a "legion like none had ever seen" for certain one of the 2

[@Gloria-victrix99857]

Ah good to see "Revelation" again.

[@jasonbentley6559]

I think an easy explanation on why the Emperor said he could make Magnus a new and "Fixed" legion could be that the data from all the mutations within the Thousand Sons revealed to the Emperor the specific gene or genes within Magnus's overall genome that caused it so he could take Magnus's DNA and modify it and make the new legion. This fits with the idea that when the Emperor created the Primarchs he didn't understand their DNA 100% and that is why he could not recreate them when they were lost. If the Primarchs were not 100% genetically created but more like a stew made with various genes and gene patches and other stuff it is fair to think you would end up with flaws you don't understand initially.

[@mgeldarion58]

What if Blood Ravens are descendants of gene line from this "second" Legion? That'd explain lack of mutations and effect of the Rubric on them while from some points of view still making them descendants of a traitor Primarch.

[@id9907]

The blood ravens actually do have a minor case of the curse of flesh. In one of the novels a couple of the marines are described as having unusual eye colors and one new recruit had his hands turn into a mass of tendrils, though to be fair the latter character was older than normal recruits (late teens if memory serves).

[@oldeskul]

Magnus could have been given a legion from the Raptor project, though the Alpha Legion may have tampered with Corus' results, his work and notes would have still been around, or depending on exactly when the Primaris project was started, he could have an entire legion comprised of primaris marines.

[@DominikKost]

My view that the Emperor was a fool is only reinforced after learning about those events that you described. As for the new legion, my best bet would be the Grey Knights, after all Janus was Magnus' well... soul son?

[@supercellodude]

Magnus was informed by Tzeentch or one of his agents that Horus would rebel against the Emperor. Magnus at that point was breaking the ruling of the council of Nikea. However, Horus was corrupted possibly with the aid of all of the Ruinous Powers. Magnus seeking to tell the Emperor of this information was in the interest of the Imperium despite how he might have been manipulated. Now at the Siege of Terra, Magnus is not a Daemon yet but his soul is fragmented after the spell cast with his Sorcerers and Tzeentch's aid. Even at this point, the Emperor either sought to forgive Magnus or manipulate him (probably both). Here, consciously, Magnus refused Him probably out of loyalty to his gene-sons and revenge for the Burning of Prospero (which Horus used lessons in manipulation to send that Furry to seek to kill him). This only compounds the tragedy of Magnus. At least his "New Kingdom" kind-of protects the newly emerging psykers in M42.

[@steffenseitter4791]

Ther was a Rumour in the older Canon, which says that the Grey Knights uses possible the Geneseed of the Thousand Sons Legion, which would explain why they have so many Psykers.

[@40KTheories]

The novel Pandorax (and the recent Grey Knight codecies) outright states their gene-seed is derived from the Emperor's own genetic material.

[@HirotheWanderer]

*[Icarion Stormborn Wants to know your location]*