What If Leman Russ Had Slain Horus? - 40K Theories

If Leman Russ had managed to slay his treasonous brother upon the Vengeful Spirit before the siege of Terra took place, then just what could have resulted from such a decisive act?
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[@anonymous-dk3um]

Russ hesitated and almost destroyed humanity The emperor himself hesitated and also almost destroyed humanity A lone conscript did not.

[@RyoKasai25]

Like father like son.

[@Sliceofpi]

Youre assuming it wasnt the plan.

[@anonymous-dk3um]

Sliceofpi if that was the plan, it was a shitty plan.

[@Sliceofpi]

@@anonymous-dk3um Not if your end goal is a human controlled pantheon like the Eldar had. Until they write the convo E has with Horus on the vengeful spirit its up in the air but there is alot of reasons to think that E was firmly planted on the path of "godhood" after Magnus fell. Russ is just an idiot.

[@marcustulliuscicero5443]

Magnus didn't hesitate and doomed mankind the an eternity of stagnation and decay

[@sexualyeti7023]

The Horus Heresy would have been remembered as the Russ Retribution.

[@SkullArrol]

The Reckoning of Russ

[@thelordchancellor3454]

The Russ Reconciliation.

[@skylark306]

Corgi retribution.

[@nightlord6653]

FUCK russ

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

The Corgocalypse

[@barryhill2836]

The only time Russ shows compassion was the only time he really shouldn't have...

[@SavageHoax]

He used to be my favourite primarch till I read the Thousand Sons book. I wonder if Magnus was the reason he hesitated. He'd already broken his brothers back, forcing him to chaos. Perhaps his ruthlessness with Magnus caused him to second guess himself...

[@barryhill2836]

@@SavageHoax You know it's weird I always thought Konrad would have made a much better "emperor's executioner" than Russ, what with his obsession with brutal justice. But yeah I think in the end Russ was plagued with sentiment which caused him to pause.

[@absolute-focus]

Actually there is acouple of time Russ has shown compassion. He tryed to resolve the matter of Prospero peacefully twice.

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

He also showed compassion before attack on Prospero and contacted his brother and begged him to surrender or at least evacuate the planet. Or when he an Magnus of all people were standing against Emps when he was censuring Lorgar's works.

[@karlthompsonpwns]

@@barryhill2836 "Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" - Jago Sevatarion

[@eyeof3ndr364]

> Lorgar trying to become Warmaster > Horus beats his ass in front of the others Sounds about right.

[@erickelly1323]

I can already see a TTS episode of Russ coming back and the Emperor saying "Way to go Leman, because you pussied up and froze when you could have killed Horrus I'm now stuck on this giant golden port-a potty. Everything is your and Magnus fault. From now on, your Space Marine chapter will go by the name Space Corgis."

[@empireempire3545]

We all are waiting for it!

[@gigamesh780]

@@empireempire3545 I am laughing so hard from what you say a new laughing god is born in the warp XD

[@cormacbevins9679]

the Corgi King rises

[@rafalbronowski8124]

I don't think you can call Russ a pussie..is two different things to kill enemy and kill his brother ..

[@HaloFTW55]

Rafal Bronowski Russ isn’t a pussy, that’s a cat. He’s a mutt.

[@jacklang3314]

Lorgar as Warmaster would've been hilarious, he'd be stomped by any loyalist Primarch he came across.

[@crypto1223]

Jack Lang None of the other legions would even care.

[@HaloFTW55]

Even Lorgar isn’t a pushover, but he is somewhat of a joke since had he fought the Ultramarines Legion 1v1 without the element of surprise, Guilliman would have crushed the Word Bearers and make it to Terra in time for the Siege even if hampered by the Alpha Legion. Having the largest Legion in itself is a huge force multiplier, controlling a sub-Empire of 500 worlds is too. Against the Sons of Horus, The Ultramarines can lose two fully trained Astartes to kill 1 Sons of Horus Astartes and still come out victorious and ready to fight the Iron Warriors.

[@TKUltra971]

Logar as warmaster? After he and his legion was forced to bend the knee in front of a live studio audience?? No one would care.

[@Hunt3rK3nw4y]

Lorgar vs Sly Marbo. Round 1. Fight.

[@Zankaru]

Very likely, but dont forget that the entire heresy was started by lorgar. He is a psyker second only to magnus. The religion that rules all of the imperium was written by lorgar. He is the best politician and diplomat by a mile and knows how to use others skills with or without their knowing. If you wanted to pick someone to be an actual warmaster, he would not be a bad choice in the classical role of a general commanding from the rear. He might have even stayed loyal after his rebuke if he was given such an honor. And a jealous horus would find it hard to out-manuever someone like lorgar to gain allies for a rebellion.

[@stalbourne]

If Russ had struck Horus, Cadia would never have fallen.

[@boxtank5288]

HERESY! Cadia never fell! The planet simply exploded but the guard nor Cadia fell!

[@MobiusPrime2028]

The very fact that Russ hesitated from killing Horus is proof enough he was no mindless brute who just followed orders. Brotherhood meant much to the Wolf King.

[@sergiovieira8272]

That only proves that he his a fucking hipocrite...

[@commissarlugh1040]

Just means hes a moron who crippled the empire twice.

[@MobiusPrime2028]

So it’s all his fault everything went south for the Imperium? Point your fingers at the actual traitors.

[@leowilly29]

@@MobiusPrime2028 Yeah fuck the traitors!

[@wolfblade40k89]

Russ is a moron he is the reason the thousands sons is dust

[@deff_bepis]

Russ: anyone but curze and sanguinius, those two are dangerous. Angron: *WhEeEeEeEeEzE*

[@robbiet9176]

well like...… Russ once had the opertunity to game-end Angron gifted to him on a fucking plate but he still showed compassion for his brother even though Big E ordered him to kill Angron for being an ungrateful fucking disappointment that was going on a rampage because he was completely insane. he did the same with the Lion and Magnus. he has a surprisingly shit record as the Emperors Executioner.

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

@@robbiet9176 Well he wasn't ordered to kill angron, he came on his own to try and get argron to stop mutilating his sons and learn how to take an objective.

[@Trepex_VE]

Man, Horus must've been one hell of a guy to make two separate highly willful and powerful individuals (that Horus was ACTIVELY trying to kill) hold back and question their decision to kill him.

[@Sliceofpi]

One was a half insane dolt and the other event hasn't been written yet. You're misunderstanding the character of the Emperor if you think he held back for sentiment though.

[@rosiebell3561]

Sliceofpi The Emperor hesitated because Horus was his most trusted son. He felt the closest thing to human emotion towards Horus. Remember, the Emperors personality is everchanging and extremely variable, to the point where the Emperor is not even a single individual. So actually, it was sentiment that held the Emperor back, but that would most likely be the only time he felt true human love/sentiment towards his sons.

[@Sliceofpi]

@@rosiebell3561 that is ridiculous. The Emp very plainly and with no exception thinks the primarchs are weapons. He doesn't even call them by their names if he doesn't have to. Not to mention the fact that he does have actual real children. If the novels have shown anything its that the Empire, E persona as the Monarch of the Human empire and the "imperial family" were and are tools created to Shepard humanity.

[@yakamao91]

@@Sliceofpi From wich book ? I heard something similar but someone stated that the writer of the book had a LOT of daddy issue and it reflected on the personnality of the emperor, making his character quite... special and sometimes contradictory. (genuine question and sorry for the poor english)

[@HaloFTW55]

Horus was trusted and appreciated by everyone, a friendly guy who proves that he is friendly even though he doesn’t look friendly. Though the true people person is Angel Boi, because obvious reasons.

[@DocWolph]

They are constantly told they are "better than human" that human thought and emotion is either beneath them or they are simply beyond it. As a result the primarchs have little to NO experience in dealing with their human emotions and thoughts. The Chaos Gods could play on that and did saving Horus several times before the end. If the Primarchs were more experinced in dealing with their humanity, perhaps the Horus Heresy would not have happened or ended on a much better series of notes.

[@mrbadguysan]

Most of the primarchs have a lot of experience among normal human beings. Everybody except Conrad Curze had upbringings of one sort or another.

[@Sliceofpi]

While the common empire is lead to believe they are better than human I dont see anything that leads to the idea that emotion is beneath them. (Maybe Lion in a few short stories). There are many story's that talk about the rage or emotional outrage of one primarch or another. And they certainly dont see themselves as above emotion. One of the statements they repeat about each other and to each other constantly as that the are humanity personified and thus feel emotions stronger than any human would. Horus fell because he felt betrayal and loss from being shown a future where he was forgotten and his father had been elevated to godhood on the corpses of his own children. That isn't a failure of emotion its a perfect expression of it.

[@jeffthemercenary]

To add : also if E isnt terrible father

[@jeffthemercenary]

@@Sliceofpi 2 years but im still gonna say it : yea Primarchs are dont think emotion is beneath them (they show more emotion then most of the current Astartes) also i dont think Lion thinks emotions are below him maybe it had something to do with he growing up in thw forest with demons

[@Sliceofpi]

@@jeffthemercenary To be fair these comments were made well before the bulk of the Lions current Canon had been written. The Thramas Crusade and later parts of Imperium Secundus filled him out a lot. Today I would say the Lion has an emotional depth and range just as deep as any of the other primarchs.

[@mercenarygundam1487]

If that happened, everyone gets drunk in the end. The end.

[@skylark306]

Armored mecha very drunk and start worshipping corgies.

[@TKUltra971]

It will all end in beers, howling and wenches. Long live the wolf king.

[@HaloFTW55]

And the population of Terra terrorized (accidentally) by Drunken Astartes.

[@thomaspurol9322]

And vise versa with drunk humans

[@Nyctophora]

Sanguinius. That's the difference it would have made.

[@alizard7617]

Can I get an F in the chat for Sanguinius

[@randomguy3954]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[@akiramasashi9317]

*F*

[@mattward4916]

No

[@guardianofasgaard7469]

F

[@jacklang3314]

F

[@Shaderaygun]

While I do see the traitor legions fracturing pretty quickly, I could see them staying together long enough to get revenge against Russ. The Space Wolves might've become the target of all the traitor legions and been wiped out.

[@absolute-focus]

Horus admitted that the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons were 2 major threats to his heresy and took steps to remove them but it didnt quite work out the way he wanted it to.

[@cas-17]

Man, this channel always makes me rethink everything that I already know and question all of the books I’ve read in the series

[@VoiceOfTheEmperor]

Happy 100K Subscribers Remliez!!

[@RyuKaguya]

Know what would be a hilarious what if? What if the lone soldier who charged Horus actually killed him.

[@When_did_they_add_handles]

The Lone Soldier Protects

[@observer2484]

What would Alpha Legion do after Horus died? Only reason they joined forces with Horus was to weaken Gods of Chaos by causing death of the humanity.

[@matrimalviarin5043]

I maintain that Alpharius was a Chaos Worshipper, but Omegon is a Loyalist that only battled Imperial Forces to set his legion up for the right time to slay Horus, then Abbadon the Despoiler and save them all.

[@michealarchangel637]

@@matrimalviarin5043 I agree, but I think he still regrets the death of alpharious even if he was a traitor.

[@matrimalviarin5043]

@@michealarchangel637 I think that while a Loyalist, Omegon would follow his brother anywhere, and loved his brother above even the Imperium, or their father the Emperor. I think that while he did not believe what they were doing was right, I think it was only after his brother died for a ruinous cause that Omegon chose to betray the Traitor Legions and dismantle Chaos from within. Omegon serves the Imperium not out of love for the Imperium, but hatred of Chaos for leading his brother and the Alpha Legion down this path. Apharius believed in Horus, and in Chaos. Omegon believed in his brother.

[@leowilly29]

@@matrimalviarin5043 so why after alpharius death, the alpha legion continued to attack the imperium ?

[@bryanskscion2229]

@@matrimalviarin5043 I think that both Omegon and Alpharius weren't even entirely sure what they stood for anymore by the middle of the Horus heresy. Allegedly do to the Alpha Legions Ingrained false identities and fractious memories this would leave them into conflict with everyone and everything. It almost seems like a curse, just as the World Eaters crave battle so too does the Alpha Legion desires to sabotage.

[@crocrox2273]

Russ saw the last bit of old Horus for the moment,its confusing what really goes inside horus's mind

[@Hakazu]

Great video! Have always liked this "what if" possibilities. Keep making Three awesome videos man!

[@kasrkinvalchez3500]

It should have been so! I could imagine Ragnar telling the story "I was there, the day Russ slew Horus" and making an homage to the 10th Captain of the Luna Wolves, which you should recognize if you read the book.

[@Sorain1]

I've got to admit, that was one striking way to open up the novel series. But I have a sneaking suspicion that they're planning to wrap it up with a repeat of that line, claiming that he arrived just as Horus made the (near) killing blow, or just as the Emperor annihilates Horus. (I'm okay with the latter, but it's still a retcon.)

[@andresfeliperodriguez2651]

As I understand, the chaos gods could resurrect Horus if he was killed and that was the reason the emperor destroyed his soul in the end. If that fact is true it wouldn't have changed much, maybe delay the plans of the Warmaster, but then some reinforcements were coming to Terra as well so any won time would help

[@the_dropbear4392]

Not if he was killed by that spear

[@cainabel6356]

@@the_dropbear4392 - I thought the spear would have just remove the chaos power from Horus, not destroy his soul. In that case, wouldn't the Chaos Gods be able to rez Horus then?

[@Orkprof]

I'd never heard of this piece of lore. So basically, Russ was easily going to succeeded where Sanguinius could not and the Emperor barely could (and supposedly wasn't going to be able to, had Sanguinius not weakened Horus)? And they say the Ultrasmurfs or Kaldor Draigo are the ones with plot armour...

[@stevensanders6696]

Sanguinius was, contrary to Russ' belief, not a superior warrior to Russ. The Emperor himself was weakened from having to fight a war against the warp itself on the Golden throne prior to fighting Horus, and even still could have defeated Horus if it were not for the fact that until the last moment, when he himself was struck, the Emperor refused to believe that the Horus he knew was completely gone. He had to banish all love (or whatever the Emperor's closest equivalent of that is) for Horus, literally banish it, from himself in order to strike Horus down. Russ hesitated in much the same way, seeing in that decisive moment, a hint of the Horus that was, and that is what stayed his blade. Like father like son, they didn't want to kill the Horus they believed was still there somewhere

[@floridaball4896]

@@stevensanders6696 Also wasn't Sanguinius already injured when he faced off against horus?

[@stevensanders6696]

@@floridaball4896 yeah, from defending Eternity Gate

[@imonbanerjee2997]

Horus also got boons from the chaos Gods while recovering. I think it was in molloc.

[@Guaguadeath]

Man I swear the discussions (and memes) in your comments section of all the history and potential lore is so good!

[@mattward4916]

Then Guilliman wouldn’t have been mortally wounded my Fulgrim

[@royalsunce]

matty boy sad to say but you've got a typo there "by" fulgrim not "my" Fulgrim

[@Bazza1993ify]

Matt Ward Be gone creature of the warp! Your kind isn’t welcome here!

[@mattward4916]

royalsunce Freudian slip perhaps

[@Bazza1993ify]

Matt Ward I thought I told you to be gone vile demon of the warp!

[@mattward4916]

Nah, I’m good

[@SgtThiel]

can we get a theory of why the emperor didn't spread information about chaos at all, even among his primarchs? civilizations that know about it seems to be more secure against it too

[@the_dropbear4392]

Then why does the imperium kill pretty much every civilian that finds out

[@SgtThiel]

@@the_dropbear4392 because grim dark, thats why. but seriously, the imperium don't trust regular people with the knowlodge, but they are wrong about it. the interex knew and was taint-free

[@GodlordBazi]

@@SgtThiel That's probably due to the reason the Interex was way smaller than the Imperium of Man. They were more capable of "educating" their population, whereous the Imperium can't even control what's happening down in the bottom levels of their hive cities. Also, life as an imperial citizen is shit to such a degree that most of them would gladly serve the ruinous powers in return for some quality of life improvements. If the Imperium was more like the Interex or the Tau Empire, where people are actually treated in a somewhat good manner, I think telling it's population about the dangers lurking in the warp and how to prevent them would turn out well, but as long as they are used as some kind of organic fuel to keep the system running, it's probably better when no one knows that there's a way other than dying in a hazardous environment and been eaten by your former coworkers on the same day. :

[@the_dropbear4392]

@@SgtThiel The interex where one line of scrapcode away from all being possesed

[@PandaWolf525]

In the current state of the Imperium. For anyone that head about some beings that could promise eternal life and a chance to escape the drudge of daily life for the common Imperial Citizen. You would have a lot of people willingly follow Chaos. But it could also make people be for Zealous in their Faith within the Emperor.

[@TheYulverick]

Yay got here in 44 mins!! Can’t wait to see how well this turned out hope your holidays were the best 40K theories (glad to see you at 100K plus now)

[@WiseguyThreeOne]

If Russ had succeeded, hard reboot everything, alternate timeline created, GW starts over. The Horus Heresy is what happens when the end of the story is written first.

[@Duppyman695]

If Horus beat the Emperor in combat untill a distraction gave the Emperor time to fry Horus with warp power, then Russ wouldn't stand a chance against Daemon Horus!

[@akiramasashi9317]

An interesting theory, but you are forgetting about one (or two) major player. Alpharius (and) Omegon. If the traitor legions indeed fractured before the assault on the Sol system, a pair of master schemers like Alpharius and Omegon (Alpharius still being alive at this point), while definitely unable to assume command, could have at least steered the path of destruction in whatever direction they chose. And since the true size of their legion, as well as the level of infiltration into other legions, was completely unknown they could have thrown some serious weight around. So while they could never become Warmasters, Alpharius and Omegon could have, to some degree at least, become puppet masters of the traitor legions.

[@sothasil7716]

Russ is the catalyst of the failure of the Imperium he didn't go and arrest Magnus even if he "wasn't responding" so he ignored the emperor's order that horus doesn't have the authority to change and drove him to tzeentch he also stayed his hand slaying Horus the very leader of the rebellion, so for all intents and purposes Leman Russ is a traitor as his actions are directly responsible for what the imperium would become by turning a loyalist traitor and failing his duty of the emperor's executioner by killing Horus

[@Smartbad]

Now, that is one hell of a voice actor for Lorgar. Excellent.

[@mikevasquez1103]

What if Leman Russ had simply waited alongside the forces defending Terra? Furthermore, what if Magnus the Red had been patient and warned the Emperor of Horus Lupercal's treachery via more conventional means? It really seems that most of the problems plaguing the Imperium of Man can be traced back to impatience and irrationality.

[@barrybend7189]

Then he wouldn't be the biggest troll in the warp.

[@NegiTaiMetal011]

I love the idea of these what ifs. It'll be quite interesting to see about what if Horus was dead, somebody dead to prevent or deal a heavy blow to the heresy, what if this and that remained loyal, so forth. For Horus to die by Leman Russ in this scenario would be interesting; I love to see the traitors argue and fight amongst themselves while the loyalists push on to crush them.

[@vikingorder3141]

Love the Chanel. Big fan. 💪🙏😃

[@HAL-cp4mt]

Gangbang of prospero : no hesitation Killing shit face horus : no can't do.

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

If Russ can determine before a battle how to defeat an opponent and every move that will occur during a duel, that makes Russ the most frightening Primarch in a fight.

[@v_artra5399]

Would love to see a series going deeper into what might have happened if events had gone this way. Would make a very fun series

[@hughgedney3393]

Great video 40k Theories

[@Scheivee100]

Did you ever think that fighting the warp tare had already weakened the emperor prior to fighting Horus

[@Duppyman695]

True, also Horus was pumped up on Daemon roids! Also during the fight The Emperor still thought Horus (favourite Son) could be redeemed, untill Horus killed an innocent only then did The Emperor fry him!

[@andrewporter9144]

What about Mortarion. The novel Scars states that the Death Lord craved the title of Warmaster and was trying to recruit Jaghatai Khan to his faction in the Heresy.

[@SawedOffLaser]

A great video to celebrate 100k subs!

[@TimeTravelisBoring]

Believes that he can defeat Lion El' Johnson. Gets knocked out from a single punch. Good Job Russ.

[@awesome52040]

It was a sucker punch.

[@seangraham1436]

Lol he stopped fighting then the lion punched him. Nothing to gloat about!

[@TimeTravelisBoring]

@@seangraham1436 They retconned that bro - originally, Lion'El just punched him.

[@TimeTravelisBoring]

@@awesome52040 The only sucker was the guy who got punched

[@rogerr.8507]

Always wear your helmet kiddos

[@godemperorofmankind7255]

I would have finally turned the Imperium into Sta Twek! (Star Trek theme song ensues)

[@user-hr1iy4nz4s]

hey star trek is do gay it makes liberalism seams manly

[@joshbunton6424]

Congrats on 100k

[@Xenomrph]

Congrats on 100k subscribers

[@40KTheories]

Thank you ^^

[@ayethe4603]

Love your stuff

[@harrywilson1660]

Hilarious! "Uss-urp", "gords", and "there and there" were fantastically funny.

[@mrmixer7465]

What if Leman Russ had never attacked prospero and instead received a message from the emperor to return to terra. Would Magnus have turned to chaos?

[@SebsterGefunden]

100k hm? Not as much as you deserve, congratulations nonetheless! Keep up that good work!

[@thomascruise4966]

Does anyone else remember the source of the Red Thirst and Black Rage pre-retconning? It was originally written that the Thirst was a precursor symptom of the Rage, and that both were caused because the Angels had lost their entire stock of gene seed and had to rebuild with stock taken from Sanguinius AFTER he had been killed by Horus. It wasn't brought on by psychic backlash, it was brought on by the indelibly-imprinted genetic memory of Sanguinius being killed by Horus. I always thought that was way more tragic of a beginning to the flaws in their subsequent Chapters...

[@martin4622]

GRATS ON 100K

[@sebastian10226]

Kepp the good work up

[@aguspuig6615]

Leman when he has to fight Magnus, who shows clear signs of trying to resist chaos and even tries to lose the fight at certain points to end the danger that he potentially posed to mankind: SMACK THAT FUCKING SPINE Leman against a fully corrupted horus who shows no signs of humanity: what are you doing gene bro🥺👉👈 ?

[@fakechemicals]

7:16 Some solid fucking voice acting right there.

[@jazeroth322]

Great job.

[@Deamon93IT]

I agree with all the changes you listed. There are also other aspects like the post heresy reforms (Codex Astartes and the like). Big E, being alive and well, would have been able to enact all the reforms He deemed necessary instead of leaving that task to Papa Smurf. Moreover things could have turned much different during the War of the Beast, since Big E could have helped organising the war (assuming he didn't find a way to fix the webway portal, giving Him the ability to bash the Beast personally)

[@CptSkillet]

I understand Russ's feelings. It's his brother, for a split second he wondered if it was the right course of action. I wish though he would have acted like the executioner he claims to be and not hesitated! Yes I know we all know how it ends, I'm reading wolfsbane right now and damn it I'm just like "wtf russ"

[@Fordo007]

Horus’s Primarch power must be the ability to look like a cute kitten when someone has him dead to rights to make them pause.

[@leatherjacket9]

Unfortunately... If Horus was killed by Leman Russ, then sooner or later the ruinous powers would've corrupted one or all of the other primarchs to turn against the Emperor and mankind. Remember all of the primarchs were swept away and in some way or form all touched by chaos and the ruinous powers had some form of hand in the machinations and plots that directed the primarchs both inside and out. I believe that given enough time all the primarchs would've been corrupted. But the ruinous powers had to move quickly and didn't have time to wait because of the Emperors secret project to create a webway for mankind to use. The other reason I believe that any of the primarchs, loyal or not, would've eventually turned; even if Leman Russ killed Horus, is because when The Emperor asks the sigilite to search the Galaxy for a group of those that are completely loyal and incorruptible, the Emperor doesn't name not one Primarch. Neither does the sigilite return with a primarch that is incorruptible. Yes it could be said that it's assumed that the primarchs were so needed in the up coming battle that their selection wasn't an option, but the same could be said about individuals that were incorruptible to a degree. But such a stipulation of find the incorruptible except primarchs was never mentioned, just "loyal and incorruptible". Once the heresy begun The Emperor now saw that all the primarchs were flawed and corruptible and no amount of science or Gene splicing could prevent that, so he had to find those that had the personality and inner purity to be incorruptible. None of the primarchs have that. But that's just my theory. Thanks for the video!

[@yugioh1870]

Guilliman tho

[@leatherjacket9]

@@yugioh1870 yes. Even Guilliman. Cause Guilliman and Lion'El Johnson hesitated with their aid. I think this hesitation represents a flaw of loyalty. I think Guilliman is prone to the same corruption to a certain degree that Fulgrim was. Because Guilliman suffers from a certain level of pride and need to be perfect. Fulgrim manipulated this in Guilliman and is why he was able trick him and mortally wound him before. The Ruinous powers once again during the gathering storm was able to manipulate circumstances and Guilliman to have him lead them to the moon of Terra. Even by the time Guilliman realized this, it was too late.

[@leatherjacket9]

@Lewis von Feline I agree that the Emperor is not perfect and only a man. The Emperor stated this also. Don't worry... Only the Ecclesiarchy will come after you for heresy. Most inquisitors follow the strict teachings of the Emperor's science and truth over religion and superstition. So you wouldn't have to worry much from the Inquisition. Lol! I also agree that the Emperor's decision to try and keep the primarchs and others ignorant of chaos didn't help matters, but telling them about chaos wouldn't necessarily safe guard things anyway. I believe the Emperor overall didn't want the Primarchs or others to know about chaos because he didn't want it to one day come out that he also dabbled and bargained with chaos as well. Being aware or unaware of chaos doesn't necessarily make you less likely to fall to their lures. Even Guilliman now is susceptible to chaos, but this makes him a better character than a grey knight. It still makes Guilliman relatable, where as we can not relate to grey knights at all because they are so incorruptible. Guilliman and the primarchs (like the eldar) experience things greater than normal man. For example, the pride, ambition, blood lust, etc... That a primarch has far exceeds that of a normal man, but so does a primarchs self control. Although all of these can be manipulated by the Ruinous powers, even their self control. The Emperor received knowledge on how to create the primarchs from the ruinous powers and then didn't fulfill something in the bargain and double crossed them with the intent of destroying them. The Ruinous powers then stole the primarchs and scattered them abroad. Ever since then the Ruinous powers have ever been seeking to stop the emperor from destroying them after he duped them. But I believe the Emperor knows that because the Ruinous powers gave him intimate knowledge on the creation of the primarchs, he could not truly trust the primarchs as being incorruptible. The primarchs are tainted by chaos even in the very existence of their making and creation. A human being born naturally is more uncorruptible than a Primarch. You and I have more purity in our making and being than any of the Primarchs. Because the primarchs were created with the seeds of corruption, the emperor was on a time clock to use them as quickly as possible and create his webway as soon as he could. The Ruinous powers knew this and were on a desperate time table as well. Even Horus knew that there was no Promised Land for the primarchs they were just tools by the Emperor. Yes the Emperor hoped that he wouldn't have to worry about the primarchs falling to chaos, but the heresy confirmed his darkest fears. The Emperor's chickens had come home to roost. He tried to play and gamble with the Ruinous powers and lost (maybe). 😉 Or was all this a part of the Emperor's deeper plan. A friend of mine thinks so, but I tend to disagree that it was all a part of the Emperor's plan to be entered into the golden throne and kill a thousand psykers a day. I doubt it, but maybe it was, cause even still... The Ruinous powers fear the Emperor, cause they still have no idea of what he is really up to. 😁

[@stevensanders6696]

Malcador nor the Emperor suggested one of the Custodians, either, but they're literally incorruptible. The primarchs were tools for a very different role than leading the Grey Knights, that was for lesser beings to prove their loyalty and act as another weapon in the Emperor's arsenal. Also, Lion el Johnson's entire upbringing and demeanor throughout the heresy both debunk your theory that every Primarch would have turned. The Lion was tempted by the Ruinous Powers long before even The Order found him, and he turned them away. When he was tempted as a primarch, he replied "Service is its own reward." When he felt slighted by the Emperor giving Horus the title of Warmaster and not him or even Sanguinius, whom he would have agreed was more fitting due to his public popularity, he never considered turning from the Emperor's plans for him. The Lion demonstrated time and time again throughout his childhood, the Great Crusade, and the Horus Heresy all that he was loyal as they come, with steadfast morals, an ironclad sense of honor, and a steeled resolve against the taint of chaos (He slew a Calibanite Lion single handedly before he even knew who the Emperor was, let alone the fact that he led a purge of a Chaos worshipping Knight order on Caliban before he knew the Emperor to boot). The Lion was, and is, incorruptible. But it would not be a Primarch's place to lead more than their legion. The Grey Knights needed to be gathered from what loyalists Malcador could find, remember, regardless of what legion they came from. He needed Astartes, not his sons, to be a new tool for him to mold and send forth

[@jeffthemercenary]

@@stevensanders6696 true Lion is the last one of all the primrachs to be corruptible Lion is one of the most loyal and hes the closest primarch to be a GK

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

Well two things, Russ didn't attack the Vengful Spirit to kill Horus just to wound him with the spear which he did succeed at, he didn't think he would beat Horus but that just shows how much of an insane combatant Russ was. And for clarification it was the two Primarchs he wasn't certain he could beat not that didn't think he could do it.

[@aymann7234]

Would've been funny if a random Space Wolf jumped in to kill-steal Horus while Russ hesitated. Like a reverse Ollanius Pius. "Ah, damn, Horus is pulling his adorable baby face again, good thing Wulfen can get space-rabies."

[@carlylebermudez8057]

I just finished reading Horus Heresy: Corax... When Corax and the Raven Guard went to save the Space Wolves at the end of the novel, Corax saw his brother Leman severely damaged but it was never explained what happened to him. Were Leman Russ's wounds caused by his battle with Horus Lupercal?

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

Yep

[@markwhiteside7618]

An interesting theory yet again, well done. Two other things might of occurred though. If horus was slain by Russ, his soul wouldn't have been obliterated as it did with the fight against the emperor. This would have left it open for any clone of horus bile created to be a true resurrection of horus body and soul, and in theory acting out the heresy as normal but at a later date. Another thing would be the fate of the death guard and mortarion, they transformed into plague marines on route to terra, with horus dead before that happened they may of escaped that fate or delayed it at best. The blood angels might have also met a more grisly fate also, sanguinius had hidden the flaws of the legion from his father for fear on what happened to his lost brothers (the missing legions) with the emperor very much alive and not interned on the throne this purging of the blood angels might of occurred with any remnants of the legion surviving finding safety within the eye with the traitor legions

[@blob7963]

Leman Russ when fighting Horus: I can't kill my brother! Leman Russ when fighting Magnus: BING BONG YOUR SPINE IS GONE

[@thedegenerate9377]

>The second notable event would emps 'scuse me? I dont think any event could ever supersede that which turned the light of humanity into the vegetable of mankind

[@JanKowalski-hs7oh]

WOW ! Lorgar voice fits perfect !

[@rylanortheunyielding3811]

Don't forget that one guardsmen that srafice himself to "save" Emps

[@Duppyman695]

Which gave The Emperor time to kill Horus, the imperium was saved by a lone guardsman

[@AlexLorentzenloganjamesalex]

I often think about what would happen if the emperor wasn't "undead". Ultimately it would change the universe to such a degree that, "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war." would probably not even be a valid statement.

[@singletona082]

Lemun Russ. Hypocrite. Legion suffered grave instability and mutation. Hid it to avoid persicution. Legion used psychers. Insisted rune priests were nothing of the sort. Ridiculed and persecuted Magnus for both.

[@wolfyboy]

Once again we learn why you DON'T HESITATE when in a duel to the death!

[@MrVoidbringer2002]

so wait, ahhhhh mind blown again dammit... you did it again now I got to think that Magnus did nothing wrong. it is all Russi's fault...

[@bryanskscion2229]

Well yes, obviously.

[@starshiptrooper100]

Well if we are blaming people it was horus who made the false claim against magnus for russ was orders were to bring magnus in to stand trail for his crimes but russes orders were intercepted by someone under horus command changed the ordered to kill magnus and his whole legion and planet

[@weldonwin]

No, its all Lorgar's fault, everything that happens in the Heresy, is because Lorgar set things in motion and corrupted his fellow pirmarchs or fanned existing resentments. And as Heretical as it is to say, the Emperor made some mistakes along the way too, mainly in his handling of Angron and Mortarion

[@tigeriussvarne177]

@@weldonwin Don't forget that fools Erebus and Kor-Phaeron. Damn Word Bearers, they ruined everything!

[@Sliceofpi]

Its ok. Look there are about 6 different primarchs that Chaos had set up to take the ball and run. In the end all they had to do was get magnus to break the unifires paths into the earth webway. The war was OVAH right then no matter if Horus made it to Terra or not. In Fact after the webway breach E needed Horus to get to Terra to be able to save anything he had done.

[@Morec0]

All I hear was: "Wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf..."

[@windhelm7375]

the only son the emperor ever referred to as "son" was the angel that went batshit insane after slaughtering entire worlds in a few days.

[@AshtonCoolman]

So our beautiful primarch Sanguinius would have lived if that dog Russ hadn't hesitated?!!!!

[@overlordkrull6439]

Hey just wondering if you can do a video about if Quixos from the book males actually succeeded in his plan to destroy cadia.

[@omganotherun]

3:04 When you said "killing blow", all I could think was "Mont'ka". Heresy, I know.

[@lewisirwin5363]

The new way Lord-Inquisitor Remleiz says '"Thanks for watching" (as "Thanks for watching-a!") reminds me somewhat worryingly of classic Evil Genius speech patterns- can someone in the know please search his tech-labs for any signs of daemonhosts and the like?

[@anothga]

0:34 Leman Russ was the Primarch of the *Sickt* Legion, eh?

[@NetMoverSitan]

Ah, the Primarch of the Vikings in space. | 1:08 - He fears the Primarch of the space vampires and fiction's most horrific version of Batman? (made before the Batman Who Laughs turned up) As for the Primarch with the cedar tree up his rear, it's advisable to listen to him. | 6:25 - The weak willed one. | 12:20 - Yeah, Spiky Tits made a mess of that. | Well...Big Papa Ultrasmurf is doing something to remedy that.

[@Raven_Frame]

Happy fun time parties is what would happen.

[@eltonjohntubola3212]

Unpredictable Insanity...... got nice ring into it...

[@fuser312]

I just noticed that I hadn't subscribed to this channel, even though I have been watching its videos for at least 2 years. wtf stupid me.

[@fakechemicals]

Apparently Horus' true power throughout the rebellion were a big ol' pair of puppy dog eyes. Everyone who tries to kill him hesitates at the last second again and again.

[@dundundada]

Maybe we would know more about the blood ravens

[@ocadioan]

Had Russ succeeded, the Emperor could also have begun a more long term restoration/disposal plan for the webway, which would ultimately free him from the golden throne. None of the Primarchs had the knowledge necessary to repair/dismantle it, but the Emperor might have.

[@SuperDogLog]

'Leman Russ admitted he could not overpower Sanguinious and Curze in combat.' He also got spanked by The lion and Angron.

[@ZombieX13]

If Russ had slain Horus we would not be here enjoying this awesome universe and your channel.

[@Amdor]

I feel live and well Emperor having enough time could remake wards securing throne possibly even making replacement for Magnus to maintain the new webway.

[@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547]

The problem is that Magnus destroyed the webway gate, destroying the emperors webway project

[@jonharper8963]

Beer would be cheaper, pelt coats would be in fashion and everyone would smell slightly of wet dog. Dinner time would be renamed feasts And it would be traditional to sing at least five sagas before starting

[@martynborthwick1845]

Best comment

[@exactinmidget92]

pretty sure the Lion would try to be the new Warmaster since he is the 1st legion and he never missed an opportunity to remind people. if the list is exclusive to Traitors well the Dark Angels fit that description quiet well.

[@ashenwanderer3592]

What did yah just WOLFIN' SAY TO ME!?

[@allanaguirre8134]

Leman Russ not killing Horus was heresy in itself,

[@thesagepilgrim4441]

*coos in Nostraman* That’s some great remembrancer data of my Primarch, Inquisitor. But no, in all *Imperial* seriousness, the events of “Slaves To Darkness” truly demonstrate how close to dissolution the traitor forces came, even with all of Aurelian’s striving for some un-destined fulfillment. I almost feel as though his magnificent put-down at the hands of Horus and his own Apostle was Tzeentch’s reminder not to f*ck with Fate unless you’re the Architect thereof.

[@williamamely7038]

I find it odd the Leman Russ, like the Emperor, would hesitate killing Horus as I thought Kahn and Sanguinius were closer to the Warmaster than Russ. It would have been intriguing if the Wolves and Dark Angels went after Horus together. It would make more sense for the Lion to have attempted to take out Horus , as he felt that he should have been Warmaster. However, Russ would not want Jonson to get to Horus first, which would've made Russ more determined to kill Horus, no matter what.

[@Nyghtking]

It gets worse because if Chaos ever got into the position like when Horus fought the emperor whoever would be fighting the emperor now would be given more power to do so but the emperor wouldn't hold back this time, meaning if it even got to the point where chaos can fight the emperor they would probably be destroyed by him without inflicting a mortal injury.

[@Hunt3rK3nw4y]

This is video proof that the Space Wolves will be renamed to Space Corgis by the orders of the Emperor once he leaves the throne. (It's a TTS joke)

[@57575756]

A moment of hesitation can spawn a lifetime of regret.

[@UserRedZero]

Oh damn. Think of that. *”Aw fuck. Rebellion cancelled guys. Everyone go home.”*