The Shallow World of Helluva Boss | Video Essay

Helluva Boss is a lot of things to a lot of people. For me, it's an obsession I can't stop thinking about. Here's the product of years and years of sleepless nights trying to figure out this show that I really really don't like.
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[@friendlycatwife]

Note: PLEASE do not post hate about the creators in this thread. Keep things to the art. Do not harass any of these people. I will delete comments.

[@magiclovelinu7234]

i love yr opinion very enlightening

[@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme]

Can you review Panty and Stocking?

[@friendlycatwife]

@@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme I’m not sure I have an interesting opinion on it. I also haven’t seen it since it first came out so it might be worthwhile to watch it again. I kind of have a small point on Kill La Kill? Maybe a mini-episode…

[@SillyStringGor3]

I kinda wanna see your reaction/opinion to the newer episodes if you’d like to ofc

[@friendlycatwife]

@@SillyStringGor3 I am planning a brief thing as part of an “update”video but it’ll be pretty simple. Nothing in the new episodes really changes my argument here

[@Flower_Mom]

Something that confuses me about the premise of this show is that I see so many people make the claim "it's hell so everyone's supposed to be awful and do awful things" but then why is one character being abused by his wife portrayed as a serious issue and we should feel bad that he's being abused? Is this a world where morals don't exist or not?

[@christionpulliam9870]

Hell I’d a place where natural born sinners are second class citizens so a lot of them live in poverty and deal with crime and the other citizens are earth born sinner which are people who are being sent to hell for punishment for whatever crimes they commit so morals are their it’s just the starting place is already demented so it just gets more and more demented

[@alejampi2]

morality =/= empathy. morality = "principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour." per a culture or a religious tradition empathy = "the ability to understand and share the feelings of another" per the sapience of the species perceiving the events spousal abuse is wrong, just like assault is wrong, just like murder is wrong. Let's say a murderer gets assaulted (however one chooses to interpret that word). It has nothing to do with the murder in any way shape or form; a completely unprovoked random assault. Does the fact that this person is a murderer make it moral or just? Could've been a random innocent, guilty of no crimes.

[@Flower_Mom]

@@alejampi2 True, but it seems the show frames things like assault and murder and abuse as "just another day in hell" except in certain cases, like with how Stolas is treated. Isn't Stella just behaving how the denizens of hell are expected to behave? Is it just because she's acting that way to an established main character that makes it bad and if she was mistreating a background rando it'd be treated comically? Why is the audience supposed to feel bad for Stolas but supposed to laugh when, say, Moxxie is being verbally abused? If you want to make a show where everyone is awful to each other I have no issue with that but having abuse be a joke sometimes and serious other times just feels like the show is trying to have its cake and eat it too to me.

[@alejampi2]

@@Flower_Mom "Isn't Stella just behaving how the denizens of hell are expected to behave?" Yes she is, this is Hell. All things are permissible (relatively speaking). This does not negate being able to empathize with Stolas' situation, which was forced on both him and his wife since before either of them were born, and by extension Octavia, who is now caught in the middle. "Is it just because she's acting that way to an established main character that makes it bad and if she was mistreating a background rando it'd be treated comically?" It is and it is not. S2E1 early on shows a young Stolas being shown an image of his future wife choking out a servant. it is played comically, in the tradition of western cartoon styles, but it clearly upsets young Stolas (cuz she was truly as big of an uptight hoity-toity abusive privileged bitch as she appeared in the photo). it is treated comically but it sets up for her trully awful actions in the future, with a young Stolas bawling his eyes out. "Why is the audience supposed to feel bad for Stolas but supposed to laugh when, say, Moxxie is being verbally abused?" Comedic timing and character development. both Stolas and Moxxie serve as comedic foils early on in the show. we know next to nothing about the characters at the start. those first Pilot-to-3 episodes was learning their basic personalities, what makes them likeable as characters. Loona calls Moxxie fat, it becomes a meme in the show. We all laugh at at Loona and Moxxie bickering. (oh my god they killed kenny! you bastards!) we laugh at the wall falling on Moxxie over and over. When it comes to him being taken advantage of cuz he's......"sophisticated".......and out of touch; it's funny. cuz he doesn't understand. however when things get serious with Moxxie in particular, in situations where he and others could seriously get hurt outside of comedic value (the assassin episode, the FBI episode, the last episode with his shit father and what happened with his mother) it is taken quite seriously IMHO. no comedy or irony. when the coyote needs to have an anvil dropped on his head for levity it happens, when he needs to have an existential crisis over why he's chasing the Roadrunner he sits down and has a think.

[@jaylorts1608]

@@alejampi2 moxxie deserves to be loved, NOT to be insulted/laughed at.

[@riderblaze6819]

Funny enough, in Reddit there was a blog about Verosika as a character, someone said that if it weren't bc she r*ped Moxxie she wouldn't be any different that any other demon. But then another said "what they did to Moxxie isn't any different than beatting him up, they just showered him with kisses"... Dude, Vivzie made that scene as an implication that Moxxie was getting molested by her and her crew, as if something else was happening. I cannot comprehend how they can turn their cheek to something like this, even when it's an inconsistent trope about Male abuse

[@KiaBlocker-ig3ws]

Sexual assault episode it's not funny it's against the real law.

[@Solanin0803]

It's reddit. Half of the people commenting on that thread don't know the Touch of a woman that is not their mother. Of course they would go "Well, but it's not so bad" because they think it's exciting...

[@willieboi.]

That scene always rubbed me the wrong way. I know damn well that if Moxxie was a girl, only then will people notice how awful that was..

[@riderblaze6819]

@@willieboi. Period 💯

[@willieboi.]

​@@riderblaze6819 💅 I also forgot to mention how Blitz literally says "Don't let them access any of your holes" or something like that.. that literally refers to SA, I don't understand how anyone thought that was okay

[@Zelnyair]

I think the problem is more fundamental and severe than what Madeline said, about no reason for characters to be doing what they're doing. "What is the actual plot of Helluva Boss?" You cannot say it is about demons doing hit contracts on Earth, because that does not happen consistently enough to be accurate, in my subjective opinion. Character arcs happen, but it is not within any framework or context or stakes. The show is not like something such as the Day of Unity from The Owl House, where several episodes built it up so you knew it would happen and get a payoff. What exacerbates this is that Helluva Boss is not written in a 'meta' or self-aware manner where it can poke fun at itself and not care about continuity. It's not like a show such as Aqua Teen Hunger Force, for instance, where the plot was always to not have a plot and to be extremely random. Then you have the worldbuilding working against it in the following aspect. Helluva Boss is not a satirical show. It doesn't do what the likes of The Simpsons, Family Guy and South Park do, where it is obvious they exist largely to poke fun at current events and politicians and pop culture. Helluva Boss does not use the Hell setting in order to make any comment about religion or morality or people, or anything. This is not an issue in and of itself, but unless you really like the character relationships and the jokes, I don't know what there is of substance in the show, beyond the "Sokka answer" of "But the effects were decent" I would make the suggestion that if Helluva Boss could set up a season arc that builds up to a finale, that would improve it. Currently, I feel it really is a show that stands for nothing. Vivziepop saying "Things sure do happen" is literally a description of the show, because that's about all it amounts to.

[@friendlycatwife]

It wants to do everything, right? It wants to be a satire. It wants to be a complex world. It wants to talk about morality. It wants its characters to say offensive things to each other. It wants us to judge characters and then praise them in the same breath. It wants to be a “monster of the week” show. It wants to be an intense melodrama starring a million character in sordid affairs. It wants to be a musical. It wants to be a comedy. It wants to be serious. It wants to be kinky. It wants people to see it as MORE than kinky. The problem is having some of those things will inevitably contradict the other things. You can’t satirize characters and want us to unconditionally love them at the same time. You can’t have a moral play about hell and also really really want people to like hell and want to live there. When everything matters, none of it matters. Instead you just emphasize certain aspects to fit your needs for a particular moment then downplay it when you need something else emphasized. It really is a mess in the most fascinating sense

[@blaria95]

Shallow is such a good word to call this show. It doesn't go deep at all. Then it tries to, but doesn't know basic writing.

[@kirin1230]

It's really trying though, it's just... Stumbling a lot. I wish this show the best but it's identity is growing more and more confused.

[@RavenStarMedia]

Honestly, I think the reason for that is because Viv and her team didn't have a story plan when they first started Helluva. Viv confirmed that they didn't start nailing down a story until during Season 2's production. Prior to that, through most of Season 1 it was intended to be an episodic comedy about demon assassins, just a spin-off to tide people over before the more serialized Hazbin released. Then somewhere down the line they decided they wanted to shift to things being more serialized instead. They didn't lock in the story map until recently, likely during the writing process for Season 3. When a show is pitched, it's either serialized or episodic. Sometimes an episodic show will have a few elements that return later (Fairly Oddparents, My Little Pony Friendship is Magic, etc.) but largely you can watch the episodes in any order and not be confused. Whereas a serialized show may have some episodic stories but overall be part of a larger narrative (Gravity Falls, The Owl House), etc. But when you pitch a serialized show, you need a story map. Helluva's problem is that it initially started out intended to be an episodic side-story to tide people over before the more serialized Hazbin came out. But then the writers decided to pivot into making it a serialized story while working on Season 2. This they were then trying to create a story... with no story map to start out with. But fans started the series thinking that they were getting into some big overarching story, when it wasn't until recently that Viv and the team even started planning to have a story to begin with. And when you have a serialized story that doesn't work. I don't entirely blame Viv for not having any plot mapped out early on, because even though you should plan out your show's direction before you start it, unlike Hazbin, this wasn't originally meant to be serialized, just a fun episodic romp to tide people over. Now that she has though, I hope the writing will straighten out and improve later on this season since they now have an actual story they want to tell.

[@jaydenc367]

Not really. It does go deep actually. it does know basic writing.

[@jaydenc367]

@@RavenStarMedia They did have a story plan for when they first started Helluva or at least some story plan. You mean the endgame plan? Season 1 did build up some story though clearly. Not all of it, as early as episode 2 set up some bigger story focused things. Which is fine really, Adventure Time did the same thing really. Nah it was around the time of season 2 it seems or at least near the end of it. You can make a transition though like what Adventure Time did. That isn't a problem at all though, again Adventure Time did the same thing. But they did create one and it's working out. Nah it planned to have a story to a degree since almost the very start. It does work. It will and it will improve.

[@nightmarerex2035]

UNLESS you understand esoterics, watch chrion last the golden web part 1-3 and this show will be more reality of how EARTHS/HELLs systems work.

[@Party-Rocker007]

I always found it weird how, despite being the character that you are supposed to root against, Stella isn’t even that bad of a person/demon compared to the rest of the cast. The show wants us to view her as this evil abuser because of how she treats stolas while Blitzo does very similar things if not worse to Moxie and is treated as a lovable scamp.

[@avivastudios2311]

What I've noticed is that there isn't a scrap of nuance in the whole show. They are trying desperately hard to convince you to like the characters you're supposed to like and that there is absolutely no goodness or development in the characters you're supposed to hate. You have to root for Blizto and Stolas' relationship because Stolas' wife is apparently abusing him, and that's it. Never mind the fact that he is actively manipulating and abusing Blizto. His wife is terrible, so PITY HIM!!! It is actually discusting how far they'll go to convince you that evil people deserve to be looked at as uwu simpathetic tragic characters. The only tragedy I see is whatever is happening in the writers' brains.

[@bcw1313]

That’s really is the game summed up. I legitimately liked the first season as a midnight black comedy. I thought that it would be a a nuanced look at how toxic people be, spreading the misery. Whilst I tend to think the progressive side of the ledger tends to be too much of hall monitors and wet blankets in the realm of comedy (I’m a firm believer that comedy is supposed to push the boundary and dance across “the line”), Helluva Boss has so failed do spectacularly at providing that nuance and depth that I’m left with no choice but to call it “problematic”. I sincerely thought and liked what I thought was a subtle acknowledgment that Verosica and Stella were in the right to be angry. But no…Blitz and Stolas have be in the right and everyone who opposes them has to be irredeemably evil. I’m sorry but that’s just the worst kind of romance anime plot. The immaturity and vulgarity of the humor paired well with what I thought was a somber, mature, and frankly bleak dark moral parable. Then season 2 went out of its way to assure everyone it was no such thing. The sassy, bratty imp with mommy issues should fall in love with the Weinstein owl and anyone who isn’t rooting for them is the real evil in the world. Such a let down.

[@crowdlycrow3632]

That last line hahahha, I loved it

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

@@bcw1313This perfectly sums up my journey with Helluva and it’s sad, I want to champion this for indie animation but season 2 has just not held up.

[@username-mk4qv]

For real though. I’m a fan of the show and I want it to be good but man does it have glaring problems. I’m hoping they’ll clear some things up. Supposedly the writing was all planned, but imo it feels like backpedaling. For instance, there were times in S1 where Stella’s dialogue implied she was angry with him cheating, implying she was hurt. And Stolas apologized for hurting her. Then suddenly it’s like no, he didn’t apologize. He actually boasted about initiating their divorce, and he said he WOULD feel bad IF he hurt Stella but it’s ok everyone because he didn’t. She’s not hurt she’s just a b!tch who wants to maintain her status. Conscience clear.

[@gigachad3925]

Just because Stella is abusive doesn’t mean you have to like the Stolitz relationship. It’s fine and valid for it not to be your cup of tea. Nobody can tell you what ship you have to like. You can acknowledge it without liking it.

[@estelle6528]

Thank you for addressing the sexism in this show. The female characters are given no attention whatsoever while the men come in all packages the women are almost always the "whore", "the always angry cruel one", or "a badass with no other character traits" and the worst thing that makes my blood boil is when called out on this Vivienne said that "because hazbin hotel is more female character centered-(which is untrue btw) she made helluva boss more Male characters centered)" that as a whole reeks of misogyny, it seems to me all she wanted was to write guys doing cool things while the girls get the bad end of the stick while also making a cute overtly sexualized gay ship the main focus- basically have her cake and eat it too. Good Writing is writing good, complex and interesting characters without emphasizing or keeping their gender always at the front back of your mind while making them. That being said millie, loona, verosika and even stella deserve better. This show is trying SO HARD to be "queer south park", it's not working. It would NEVER work.

[@friendlycatwife]

Thanks for the comment! I’ve been calling it gay Rick and Morty myself 😅

[@Spectra651]

Vivienne said that "because hazbin hotel is more female character centered-(which is untrue btw)..." You're right about that. Every few months or so Vivzie's official merch store comes out with a new set of pin designs featuring the HB and HH characters (I collect pins, so I notice these things). And you wanna guess who's missing entirely from her newest spring designs? Charlie and Vaggie. Oh, but you can be sure they've got Angel and Alastor ones up for sale! I just find it really funny that Vivzie recently came out with those statements about HH being more female-centric, but then she can't even half-ass it when it comes to her merch. I mean, at least *look* like you're trying to convince people. Honestly, I don't care that much if she wants to focus on the male characters more if that's her preference (that in of itself doesn't necessarily scream "misogyny" to me, but everything else you pointed out about her women characters always being the whore, bitch, or badass certainly doesn't help Vivzie's case), but at *least* have the guts to admit it. It's this constant dancing around her critics and stringing along fans who *do* care about the female characters with promises of "Oh don't worry, that Millie-centric episode is coming along soon!" or "Yes, when HH finally premiers it's going to focus on the ladies!" when we know full well Vivzie favors Angel and Alastor. It's the constant talking out of both sides of her mouth and giving fans expectations that she has no plans on meeting that I can't stand.

[@LauraBow]

We all know there's no way in hell Alastor and Angel Dust are getting sidelined the way the female characters in Helluva Boss do. I'd be genuinely surprised if that happened.

[@LinkfromTLOZ28]

the difference is that south park is funny and has good offensive jokes while vivzie's jokes are just constant cussing and bad sex jokes

[@maravreloaded]

South Park works because it understands where to land a joke and where to give breath. HH/HB are what people think of South Park without watching the actual show.

[@twinkl0r]

I always felt like Hazbin and Helluva blatantly wanted the fans to ship and draw NSFW art of these characters which is so unusual for any show. Unrelated to the show, the merch for Valentine’s Day is the cast doing sexy poses in lingerie as keychains and standees. Even the trans character that had like two lines total has this kind of merch.

[@animalanimatesthings]

Absolutely. If that merch was made by a fan on etsy or something, then it obviously doesn't mean the creators wanted NSFW art to be drawn of their characters. It's by a completely different person who's not affiliated with the crew, but the creators themselves posting very sexualized merch of their own characters? That's obviously going to be affiliated with probably the entire crew, even the members who had no say in creating the merchandise. It's definitely very unusual, even for adult show creators where characters are sexualized regularly

[@Leo-64DC27]

@@animalanimatesthings This is quite problematic for stuff like this keep occuring

[@animalanimatesthings]

@@Leo-64DC27 I agree. Even if the characters they're making this merch for are adults, it just rubs me the wrong way that the creators of a show, not some fan on another site, made merchandise sexualizing their own characters. Hell, most creators seem disgusted at the thought of that. I know damn well I'd feel appaled. But, they obviously don't if they're the ones making it, which just seems really weird to me.

[@Leo-64DC27]

@@animalanimatesthings This is kinda similar to Helltaker as well

[@soliel5680]

@@animalanimatesthings why should it be weird and why should it matter tho?

[@Murkymaid]

I think the funniest part of the show hating feminine men is that moxxie, the main male character that they give feminine traits to, is the only one that i actually like seeing. He's pretty much the only male character that doesn't come off like a sex pest, he's the only one that gets punished by the shows world, he's the only one that refrains from constantly swearing or saying sexual stuff. At this point he's the complete antithesis to the rest of the cast and because of that, he's actually enjoyable and i'm engaged when he shows up in comparison to someone like blitzo or stolas where i just skip whatever scenes they're in at this point (i know its bad for continuity but the show has none so)

[@beef3442]

Moxie also has a good backstory that’s been shown and isn’t being drawn out for an entire season and a half

[@aegisScale]

He (and sorta by extension Millie) is kinda like the eye of the Helluva Boss storm. Sure he doesn't prevent the show from tossing you around forever, but he does offer moments of calm that can round out the viewing experience. Odds are the show would've been better if it focused on developing him (and Millie) from the start . . .

[@kentuckyfriedsushi2049]

I've seen this video a few times already, but I just realized something. Verosikka (or however tf you spell her name idk) is mocked and punished for her alcoholism. But when Stolas is revealed to take medication (presumably anti-depressants) and drink lots of alcohol as a coping mechanism, the audience is supposed to sympathize with him. Wonder why that is? 🤔

[@Randomyoutuber-4831]

Verosika drinks because she’s an out of control party girl and hedonistic celebrity only out to satisfy her own pleasure. Stolas is a domestic abuse victim trapped in a horrible marriage who drinks to numb the pain and misery rampant throughout his life. That’s why Verosika is condemned for it but Stolas is sympathetic for it, they have entirely different reasons for drinking.

[@LiMe251]

​@@Randomyoutuber-4831 exactly

[@friendlycatwife]

Judging someone’s alcoholism on a morality scale is certainly a…take.

[@LiMe251]

@@friendlycatwife yeah, alcoholism is less of a moral downfall and more of a physical health downfall, for the most part it doesn't really hurt anyone

[@friendlycatwife]

@@LiMe251 um…not sure I agree there. Alcoholism absolutely hurts the abuser and can hurt their friends and loved ones. I was more commenting on someone saying that someone’s alcoholism was “more excusable” than another’s. That is honestly a pretty horrible take 😢

[@IferGanomer]

In The Circus, when Stolas is revealed to have slept with Blitz, he proudly rejoices over how it would excuse divorcing Stella. In Loo Loo Land, Stolas tries to explain how sudden and unplanned his intercourse with Blitz was, almost as if he didn't want it to happen in the first place. now that's a major inconsistency that I can't really fathom.

[@CallOfTheDragon885]

I think Stolas wasn't ready to deal with Stella's wrath once she got close to him.

[@gigachad3925]

Well the fact that he rejoices doesn’t change that it WAS portrayed as sudden and unplanned within the same episode. In fact he was still portrayed as conflicted about the ordeal within the episode as well. The difference is that he doesn’t feel he owes an explanation to the person who’s abused him for years, whereas he does for his own daughter who he loves very much.

[@moonzie37]

It's sad to think about how Moxxie could have been the one to awaken something good in all of them that they didn't even know was there, but instead his hopeful nature was shattered and now he doesn't care about who he murders.

[@beef3442]

He’s always been fine with killing, he just didn’t want to kill the family in episode one because of his own trauma.

[@moonzie37]

@@beef3442 well, gotta say that makes his character even worse

[@jaydenc367]

But he was always fine with killing and they are meant to be bad people, it wasn't shattered and he cares at times.

[@jaydenc367]

@@moonzie37 It really doesn't, like how does it?

[@moonzie37]

@@jaydenc367 please tell me what you want me to explain.

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

I have my own hot take on this show: Moxxie should have been the MC. He has enough complexity to him and charm that he works both as protagonist and as a character other characters can bounce off of. His personality allows for many different relationships to bloom and all of them can be charming thanks to Moxxie's charm by itself. He can be dignified when he needs to be, he can be funny, he can be conflicted and there is a legit interesting things with his character possibly having interesting struggle with him being a moral imp, maybe an imp that doesn't feel like an imp and doesn't know who he is. That's kind of why I think Moxxie would make a far better protagonist, he has far more unique position that allows for some truly interesting conflicts, stories and character growth. And because of his more moral nature in hell he can grow while also allowing other characters to grow alongside him because of how he affects them. And he is also a bit weaker character in physical and mental department, but that also gives room for him to have REALLY strong moments when he pushes against adversities. Basically Moxxie can serve far more roles than any other character would and there are far more potential stories to be made with him thanks to his versatile character. And those things also explain why out of all of the characters he has by far the most fanfics written about him (by myself too and I definitely try way too much with all the lore I'm doing for those for absolutely no reason). He is likeable and is well made enough that you can make all kinds of stories with him and for them to not feel out of place and you WANT to write about him and read about him, unlike with someone like Blitzo.

[@Marrianno]

Your comment aged like fine wine, because new Moxxie lore has been revealed alongside new storyline (spoilers of you haven't seen ep yet) Everything mostly happened like you said. Moxxie has been revealed to have conflicting relationships with his father Crimson and his ex. Those relationships led into complex story of Moxxie trying to escape his father's heavy controlling hand and mafia. His father defidently poses a big thread and can come back in series later. Overall it's interesting, and Moxxie is best writen character so far. Everything bounces off of him in this episode specifically(but I wish we had explanations from Millie)

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

@@Marrianno To me I didn't like the episode all that much. I LIKED the backstory, but the fucking comedy ruined it for me. Just shoving dicks everywhere right after it just felt so dumb and inconsistent. This show has BIG problem with how it mixes comedy and serious moments. Also I hated how Moxxie basically was shit on YET AGAIN! He never gets to fight back and it pisses me off. At this point he is basically Meg of this show and it's sad how this show as a whole seems to hate him and is hellbent on him having nothing dignified. Always being a damsel that needs rescuing. It's tiring at this point. And Moxxie is honestly not that interesting to me. He seems like another generic villain and he is quite a dumbass if he didn't check if Chaz really had any money. And him having the same look and voice as Moxxie just doesn't do it for me.

[@Marrianno]

@@AzraelSoulHunter oh yeah, the comedy threw me off so much when I first watched the episode, I literally wanted to rate it the worst up until third half of it. The only reason I didnt mention comedy was because it was not a focus of your OG comment, sorry. Secondly yeah, Moxxie can be either called Meg or Morty of this show, he basically serves as a punching bag despite being the kindest. The premise of him going agains whole mafia family was interesting, hovewer it seemed to wrap up in the same episode and Millie took care of it. Speaking of Millie, she got even shorter end of the stick. I expected her to give backstory about how she met Chaz, how how the th broke up and where all the hate exactly comes from(I suspect its tied to money issue, however cant tell for sure) Crimson is. . .a character. I whould say that he's completely one dimensional for now, and evil for no reason. I like "the idea" of his conflict with Moxxie, not the character itself. Hovewer, Crimzon not checking Chaz' possessions and saving seems like writers not knowing how to solidly build thing up. And I agree, his desing is way too much alike Mixxie, hovewer I was thrown out by how of model Crimzon is most of the time.

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

@@Marrianno To me Crimson is boring. He is basically the same shithead we saw every other time... And it's the same complaint I have about Paimon. They are boring. Also the way this episode juggled him being abusive and then him doing the "gays like dicks" thing just made him feel like a disjointed character I just can't take seriously. Chaz was basically made probably just to make the point that "Moxxie is bi" and then he was killed. The moments of him feeling remorse and dating Millie before were pointless. And funny thing about this episode is that when I saw there would be an episode I decided to make a new chapter of a fic where I wanted to introduce Moxxie's family. Normally I update every blood moon, but this time I wrote one in about 3 days to make a point that my versions are different so people are not confused. Which made me realize how inconsistent and lazy I can be. And I also got action there to take place on Greed. Nice bit of coincidence, but I made my version a very different place with how it functions. Now don't think I don't like it because it's not how I write it. No. I liked Moxxie's backstory, I have a different one, but this one was nicely done too. But this episode REALLY undermined itself with bad comedy. This entire season just feels not very good. And honestly. I couldn't give two shits now about it, I write my own version of this universe and I don't want to be accurate to this one. And I genuinely hope other fans will keep on treating Moxxie better unlike the show which seems to get off on humiliating him in every possible way. Just fuck this. I am genuinely tired of this show with how it's slowly, but surely seems to be getting worse. Not just with how it treats Moxxie, but just overall in many other ways. But of course some fans will flame you for criticizing it. But that's true for many fandoms sadly.

[@Marrianno]

@@AzraelSoulHunter could you give like to your fanfic, I honestly want to read it now

[@witherslayer-7315]

Loona actually DOES have a narrative purpose, but it's for the purpose of furthering Blitzo's character. She exists to show how desperate for love Blitzo is and how he treats people who he actually cares About. And also because Blitzo sees himself in Loona. There's more to it than that, but It honestly doesn't matter because it's still proves your point as to how most of the female characters exists to strengthen the male ones.

[@friendlycatwife]

Right! And that is my point like you said. None of the female characters have lives outside of men. Loona is designed to further Blitzo’s narrative, which is hilarious cause there’s like 5 other characters whose purpose is to ALSO do that 😅

[@jaylorts1608]

@@friendlycatwife the part when you say moxxie gets punished for being kind, I agree with you he doesn't deserve to be punished ( even though he does murder people).

[@gamerstheater1187]

what I hate is how Helluva Boss is falling apart not cause of bad writing, but bad writing to please fans. They retconned Stella's character to please Stoliz Shippers and Stella Simps defend it.

[@jaydenc367]

It is not bad writing or bad writing to please fans. They did not retcon it though.

[@jaydenc367]

@Chaos Vortex No I am not part of the problem. I know that obviously. Listen I do not want Helluva Boss to go bad either and i get valid criticism but that is the thing not all of the criticism is valid and I cannot just pretend it is.

[@jaydenc367]

@Chaos Vortex Well considering she hired Striker to kill Stolas her doing that now is not surprising. She was not changed let alone to appease the Stolas and Blitzo shippers.

[@jaydenc367]

@Chaos Vortex Again Stella never changed, at least give examples to prove a actual argument.

[@jaydenc367]

@Chaos Vortex No you did not. I am allowing that but I can still argue. I am not white knighting or am part of the problem.

[@sinfulpuritan3430]

I absolutely love watching Helluva Boss critiques. It helps me see the positives of the show and negatives, helping me with working on my own projects. It even helps me see the points of views from a wide variety of groups, from professional writers, LGBTQ+ people, random individuals, and more. I know a lot of Helluva Boss fans might end up attacking you, so I hope you can see that there isn't any problem to criticize any show. It not only allows you to see the flaws in a show you like/liked, but can also help others who might be working on their own projects see what an audience might want from a piece of media that might tackle similar topics. Keep making great videos, be it other show critiques or whatever else you want to make (this is my first video of yours I've seen, so idk what type of content you usually make)!

[@friendlycatwife]

Thank you so much! This is exactly the response I want from my videos. I’m working on my second one now so look out for it ❤️

[@sinfulpuritan3430]

@@friendlycatwife Heck yeah! I made sure to subscribe! I feel like, out of the various Helluva Boss critique vids, you gave the best info from an audience POV and pointed out a lot of topics I haven't seen others do. I especially liked the brief section on desensitization to violent/dark subject matter. I feel like I have definitely been desensitized to such things, so I try my best to be aware of that while writing, especially since it seems like a lot of others who have been desensitized tend to not do that. Idk what your next video will be on, but if I had to make a suggestion, and if you were comfortable with making a video on it, I would love to see your point of view on desensitization in media. I feel like, nowadays, a lot of media, from comics to shows, tend to have more violence and such that can make viewers uncomfortable. I feel like it would be beneficial if more people talked about it. Of course, you don't have to if you don't want to! Either way, I'll be sure to watch your videos, as they not only seem to give good advice, but they are really entertaining to watch!

[@friendlycatwife]

@@sinfulpuritan3430 thank you so much for the kind words! One of the reasons I made this video was because I noticed how a lot of Helluva Boss criticism videos were…not great. Most were even pretty offensive. No one seemed to be saying the things I was thinking about so I decided to make my own video. Thanks for the suggestion but I really don’t have anything to add to the “desensitization in media” conversation that hasn’t already been said before or better by others. I try to make videos about stuff I don’t see most talking about, or stuff I’m really interested in.

[@a_naotenhonome780]

This show is the embodiment of a kid trying to be edgy and mature,and miserable failing lol

[@Xeorboom]

or just a really long Brandon Rogers skit... well he is a voice actor and a writer

[@FernandoMazzo175]

Eu já te vi em uma outra sessão de comentários antes, mas eu não me lembro qual

[@RYUUsballpit]

so true- HB literally has the same energy as the first suicide squad movie

[@OffTheRailGaming]

What metric are you judging their failure off? Surely not likes vs. dislikes.

[@jaydenc367]

It really isn't that at all

[@ab.6223]

I'll be honest, the edgy flaws the demons have would be fine if it was simply written better. There's plenty of stories about bad people who never become better and ultimately win or at very least don't lose in the end- where no one is really worth rooting for by moral standard, but you're fascinated with how these people will turn out, and whether they'll live. And there are plenty of stories about people who do terrible things but make you question if they have enough humanity in them to sympathize with them, or at very least they don't deserve to die or something. ( I focus on death because Hazbin Hotel is presumably about saving demons from mass genocide. And so the main question becomes 'why save the lives of evil people?' Which ideally should be the pervasive theme around the demonic characters. ) Stolas can very well do the evil act of holding a favor over someone's head as he makes them sleep with him, cheating on his wife, but then also equally love his daughter at the same time. People are complicated, I'm sure being raised in Hell affects one's opinion on consent and power, by all accounts no one born in Hell should have a healthy understanding of anything. Morality isn't born with, its taught. I expect them to have a dominance hierarchy, outdated prejudices, the inevitably patriarchal morality of a barbaric society without laws. It would be odd if they didn't, and it would be odd if that wasn't reflected in how they spoke to each other and what they're willing to tolerate in a relationship. This is a cesspool of self destruction and sin, a place where virtue and kindness is a weakness. Everything is skewed, but emotions still stand. But that's the problem. What good stories about a cast of bad people get right is they set a tone and set the standards, and they immerse you in the minds, and in turn the world, of the story you're about to see. You come to understand this is not the writer's beliefs, simply the story of these messed up people played out as it realistically would, whether there's a moral to it or not-- though there usually is at least something to be learned about human behavior or self destruction from these kinds of stories. Hazbin/Helluva's fatal flaw is its inconsistency with this. And so the writers must become the god of the gaps as you begin to see through the obtuse narrative, it's lack of theme as well, and they become blamed for the otherwise believable character flaws in their characters. It makes it seem like the framing is making excuses for in-world prejudices. It is near impossible to tell what the moral standards of Hell really are. For example, there are imps that are perfectly friendly and loyal to family/relationships but are just violent. So, is respect for life the only virtue they don't expect there?Then how are people taking the threat of dying so easily if they care so much for those around them? Why do people just walk the streets unafraid if everyone's a potential killing machine? And clearly, that's not really the only virtue they disregard, so why were those imps so nice? Weren't they born in Hell, shouldn't they be worse than most fallen humans? Side characters are haplessly lowbrow and abrasive verbally, emotionally, and other crimes like theft and s*xual assault are as common as any prison. They speak like people willing to say /anything/ so long as it provokes anger or shame, whether they believe it or not ( I doubt Blitzo really cares if someone is a wh*re. So its interesting that he says it like it's demeaning, isn't it? Where did he learn to demean women with that word and why? This is something that should be highlighted by world building. ). But at the same time Stolas seems genuinely heartbroken that his wife is simply mean to him-- and JUST mean to him. All things considered, she doesn't appear to be doing anything else to him except insults and bullying, but he is responding like someone who /expects/ kindness-- like WE would in our lives-- instead of like someone who understands cruelty is the standard and that he needs to assert dominance instead of expecting sympathy. Whether its healthy or not is besides the point, that is what he would learn by living in Hell. So how in the world has Stolas remained so timid and emotional growing up in this environment? Where did he learn timidness? Where did Moxie learn his morality? Why does Blitzo behave like the fact he can't find a healthy relationship is some sort of personal failing instead of just a fact of everyone in Hell because this is just logically not a good place to find that? Isn't Millie and Moxxie supposed to be an outlier, borderline a freakish occurrence? Why isn't any single character's focus ever on the thought that they might be happier, freer people if they could just escape this tormenting environment? Why do I never get the feeling that the demons are aware what it even means to be in Hell, that they never look up and wish for better? Where is their hardened souls broken by hopelessness, knowing they're spiritually at a dead end? Why does none of their self loathing come from the fact that they are condemned creatures, born to suffer? Labeled as worthless on a divine scale? Do they even have a strong opinion on that fact? Has it occurred to them that that might be the source of their problems? It's these inconsistencies that cause Hell to resemble our own lives too much and we begin to expect our own morality from the characters, because they keep begging sympathy and relatability in a very simple and immature way. If every character, and in turn everything about its setting, was thoroughly mature, emotionally complex, and unafraid to embrace its ugliness-- and probably a little less silly would help if they can't write good dark humor-- it could pull off having a cast of bad people like any good cast of bad people. It's fine that they're bad people. It's fine that the story doesn't teach them to be better people. They just have to be believable and interesting people.

[@avivastudios2311]

That is such a good question: how DO the imps feel about being born in such a terrible place and being on the bottom of the hierarchy? They never got the chance to rise above the demons they are. They didn't have a choice other then being lesser. There is a world of questions to explore with this show, if only the writers cared about the story as much as they cared about furries.

[@StellaGoetia666]

@@avivastudios2311 I've said it in another video and I'll say it again, here: The HB team is only good at drawing, cleaning up animation, and animating in general. And they're also great with background art. But that's literally it - the story (or stories) that they are trying to tell are inconsistent and confusing. Perhaps they shouldn't have focused so much on looks, because it really doesn't matter what the animation looks like if you're able to tell amazing stories, build worlds, and develop characters. Adding to that, antagonists/villains should also get writing of their own. Because they play an important role as the opposing energy/the ultimate thing that needs to be defeated. Characters like Stella look wonderful in terms of design, but they have poor writing. We don't even know why Stella is the way she is, and Paimon just showed an image of her, as an equivocal illustration that she's been the way she is from the beginning, without answering any important questions or giving her solid reasons to act like that.

[@friendlycatwife]

You’ve hit the nail on the head here. The problem isn’t characterization (well mostly, sexist and homophobic stereotypes aren’t great in most contexts) it’s how the show treats those characters. It’s who Helluva Boss chooses to reward and who it chooses to punish that’s the problem. This is where we can infer a not great ideology, whether anyone making the show intended that to happen or not. And yeah the world building, I think, has to be dismissed in order to give the best faith interpretation of the show. I get a lot of lore arguments and, really, you don’t want to go down that path. Besides the points I make in the video, and the excellent points you make here, you can even make it simpler: why are there prisons in hell? Why are so many people in hell queer? Do queer people go to hell in this universe, if we are to believe this is the biblical version as some argue? And is that good? That gay people are in hell? Why would Moxxie’s father have problems with gay people? Shouldn’t they just be everywhere all the time? I mean, it’s hell! Why is that weird to him?!?! Imps are a species and they have gendered characteristics. Why? Did they evolve those traits in hell? Is hell a biome? Why don’t other demons have these traits? Wouldn’t it make sense if succubi and incubi had gendered genetic traits too? (The answer is no because it doesn’t make sense for anyone to have them). And where do hellhounds come from?! Did they evolve as well?!?! Were they domesticated by early cave-imps? Could they always talk? Where they made to be slaves WHEN THEY COULD TALK?!?! You can see how dumb this conversation can get. It’s much easier, and probably more accurate, to just say that the creators of Helluva Boss wanted a cool gothic/edgy hell world where people do cool edgy/sexy things. It’s a fun place we as the audience should want to go to. And that, I think, is why they end up writing themselves into a corner over and over again, and why the supporters of the show shout “JUST LET THE DEMONS BE HOT!” That’s the show. Everything else is extraneous.

[@hpropganda]

amazing outline of the thing's it's lacking, but aside from that i love how you mention other works of art and the specific events that happen within them to compare to hb without giving out any names

[@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong]

I also question what the fuck happened to the command structure of hell. Like, the show is clearly using all sorts of judeo-christian sources to complete a picture of an organized hell. But the hierarchy kinda begins and ends with the 8 princes? Everyone else is just fighting for spots. Like, what happened to PAIMON? where are all the Grand Marquis, and Generals, and Kings, and Lords? Are we to assume that the angels wiped them all out? Well why would they, since LUCIFER made that deal originally? If the others found out he sold them out, he'd be dead. And of course, there's the issue that technically Lucifer isn't any more powerful than the other princes post-fall. I'm not saying this is a bad thing to deviate from, but if ur gonna base your story on it, either explain why things are the way they are, or go the full Dante and make everything up. So I guess my main issue, is that there's enough dangling hell royalty to make me question where tf all the others went. Also the Demon prince designs are so... eh. Like specifically Beelzebub. Beelzebub, LORD OF THE FLIES, demon prince embodying Gluttony, usually depicted as one of the MOST grotesque of the princess: is a bee. A BEE. look I know their name has bee in it, but their title is lord of the flies and- ok. not a big deal, I just wish the princes of hell were less, UwU cute character designs, and a little more eldritch looking, or at least acting. they are presumably millions of years old. Lucifer's design seems down pat tho. From what we've seen, very in-character. Prince of pride and vanity, cares more about himself than his family, kinda reclusive: makes sense.

[@jeremyallen5974]

Holy shit, a Helluva Boss review that DOESN'T rely on cringe humor or flinging derogatory terms at the fanbase? Color me surprised

[@friendlycatwife]

Sometimes when you want to see a critical look at something that doesn’t use the “R” word you have to make it yourself 👍

[@jeremyallen5974]

@friendlycatwife I'll use the R word plenty in my scathing indictment of the SoulsBorne fanbase. It's ironic that KZbinrs bitch about toxic movies companies and their fans attacking the critics with political slurs ad nauseum yet whenever Fromsoft and their fanbase throw a shit fit and hurls out lame strawmen excuses to defend their bare bones RPGs they are practically sanctified by the gaming community It's honestly sad that such toxicity is encouraged. Then again given how the games are a generally toxic experience I shouldn't be surprised

[@friendlycatwife]

Please do not talk like this. I will not stand encouragements of hate on my channel. This is your only warning.

[@jeremyallen5974]

@friendlycatwife what hate? The generally bad attitude they take towards criticism of their games CAN be considered retarded given how their go to response to criticism is to throw a tantrum like little children instead of accepting it like fully grown adults

[@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong]

@@jeremyallen5974 man, I'm sorry, but if you thought bloodborne was barebones, you didn't play it.

[@moonzie37]

It would have made much more sense if Moxxie was the one to come up with all the plans, but never actually participate in killing. And the reason his dad didn't kill him was because Chaz did it all for him and that's why Moxxie fell in love. Btw, that guy shouldn't have been killed off. Just some thoughts.

[@leia4190]

Thank u for making this. I was just thinking about how misogynistic the writing in this show is. It blows my mind how people watch Stella be a stupid, vain, evil gold digger stereotype and respond to all criticism of the writing as “not holding female abusers accountable/not taking abuse of men seriously”. It’s hard to care about her being an abuser when it’s so transparent that it’s a lazy way to make stolas more sympathetic and justified in cheating (we all have read THOSE fanfics). These same people ofc love stolasxblitz and have zero issue with how blitz REGULARLY sexually harasses moxxie and millie (and millie is toootally okay with it … because…?), and I don’t see them caring much about moxxie being SA’d by Verosika’s gang. Blitz is a sex pest and Stolas is an outright rapist. If anyone doesn’t care about SA victims based on their takes about a show, it’s them. I’m glad there’s people like you making videos about this! It’s nice to hear someone sees the same shit that I do in this show. And framing it as a fetish show makes complete sense to me! I think they’d be much happier dropping the pretense and just writing the show like a semi-nsfw writing challenge with one-shot prompts lol

[@beef3442]

It’s a moral thing with Stolas and Stella. It was an arranged marriage that neither of them wanted and only happened to make an heir. Stella doesn’t care if Stolas cheats as long as it’s with someone of their social status or higher. And Stolas never felt anything towards Stella that wasn’t negative.

[@OkiSmokey]

⁠@@SeraphOfTheEarthI agree with this 100%!! I’m one of those people that makes up little stories in my head about Stella and why she is the way she is. Like maybe she HAS to resort to being abusive to Stolas because her peers will think she’s siding with “someone who slept with an imp”, what if the rage and entitlement shown since her childhood was a result of the harsh expectations put on her or taught to her by her family? What if she has a mood/personality disorder that’s constantly being triggered and causing her outbursts because no one around her wants to admit she’s not “normal” and that she needs help? (I personally vibe with this one coz I have bipolar and have friends with bpd) I know I’d be at least pissed off if I was in an arranged marriage where neither of us were happy and I had come to the conclusion I just had to suffer and push through it, only to find out my husband was cheating on me with “whatever he could find”(what I assume she would think) and then used that as his ticket out and framing me as the bad one! Imagine feeling like you’re perceived as less than the lowest when you’ve had to be in a horrible relationship too! Anyway enough of my rambling, I kinda hope they don’t build story on Stella more so they don’t have a chance to ruin my headcanons lmaooo

[@TidalVex]

The notion of the show being "fan fiction without the fiction" is so funny to me because it's the fanfics that are the sole reason I'm even still interested in the show. Seriously, the fans of the show have written more world building and character growth than the actual show will ever do, and that's just kinda... sad...

[@thylacinegamer6314]

Yeah. My problem with the show is that it's short and seems a little rushed. Characters don't get much time to develop. Not to mention the show focuses way too much on the Blitz/Stolas relationship and ignore some of the other characters. Hopefully this changes with the rest of Season Two.

[@AzraelSoulHunter]

And as someone who writes one of those (actually two, but one as a side project to update every few hundred years) I have to say I sometimes question why I'm even doing it, thinking over so much when Viv and her team didn't seem to do so with their worldbuilding. But I want to try either way, but it can be tiring. And weird.

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

i love it when fans are so devoted they will salvage characters from a disaster of a show or game that had the potential, but not the execution. and end up doing a better job then the original creator because they care about the characters more then said creator lmao

[@avivastudios2311]

Could you point me to one of them? I'd like to read it.

[@TidalVex]

@@avivastudios2311 anything by TalosLives on AO3. They're one of the greats in Helluva Boss fanfiction

[@zackscroggins9422]

I am so happy that someone else is out here giving there analysts on vivzepop work the fandom will eat you alive if you even say one thing negative about it but you weren't afraid and you have my respect for that My biggest problem with the helluva boss fandom is they just can't take criticism and they call you homophobic if you think stolitz is a toxic relationship (which it is) so thank you so much for this video

[@crowdlycrow3632]

Lol and Stolitz is the most homophobic relashionship supporting the homofobic stance "All gays only want sex"

[@beef3442]

I guess we’re just going to forget everyone shitting on Hazbin Hotel when it came out

[@crowdlycrow3632]

@@beef3442 Hmm... Didn't see it. What I agree with some of the fandom is that the mayority is mockery and not actual critics

[@supotter377]

@@beef3442Yeah because the pilot sucked

[@lerfarts]

I agree with a lot of your points aside from the rebuttals of “they’re demons in hell so of course they do horrible things!” It’s not *okay* they do horrible things. And of course they aren’t *real*. But they are *written* to be awful because they’re demons in hell. I do think there’s this weird dissonance where we clearly aren’t supposed to think these characters are good people or approve of their actions (one because they’re awful and two because this is HELL for a reason), but the creators are also trying to give everyone human struggles and tragic backstories and make them relatable. And I don’t feel like you can have both? Like… tragic origins for villainous characters can be interesting! You can have sympathetic villains! But… none of these characters are presented to the audience *as* villains. They’re in the protagnoist slots. And while you can EVEN HAVE BAD PEOPLE IN THE PROTAGNOSIT SLOT- we also don’t show them getting punished for their actions! So because they’re constantly getting rewarded for shitty behavior we never get to realize “wait a minute! that WAS a fucked up thing they did!” They’re just completely tripping and fumbling over this and trying to have the best of both worlds where you can easily fix this issue by either: - giving the characters proper punishments for their actions and being shitty people - making the characters better people or having them learn to become better people and reward them for improvements Instead they’re in a middle area of “bad people getting rewarded for bad actions” and it’s very confusing in terms of their message. EDIT: of course you can have the “of course bad people get rewarded for bad behavior because it’s hell” but they don’t HIGHLIGHT that to the audience. and they don’t show another option either. like there’s no flip side to that. and idk i feel like the show could be better structured in just regards to that element.

[@a_naotenhonome780]

Yep like i as she pointed how Blitz is supposed to be thst asshole character, who everyone is supposed to love despite him being a horrible person. These types of characters can work but as she said on the video, the writers never punish him for being an asshole or give him a flaw to make his character more entertaining. I will use Cartman from south park as an example They are both horrible people, but the story knows how to use it in an fun way. Cartman never gets what he wants, it's always funny to see his spoiled brat reactions and how almost none of the characters actually like him, due to him being a horrible person while on helluva boss most of the main cast seems to respect/likes blitz

[@lerfarts]

@@a_naotenhonome780 Agreed! Honestly you can point to South Park as a really good adult animated comedy that does the “shitty characters” things right. When the characters are assholes- even if they’re temporarily rewarded they are always torn down at the end (see Cartman Land). When the characters (even if they are typically assholes) end up doing good deeds they get rewarded (see that time Cartman stopped an armed robbery and his friends decided to start talking to him again). You can have your dickwad characters and have them be fun to watch but you have to make your intentions with them clear. Another think South Park does better is character based comedy- and better plot structure when writing. Helluva Boss just has characters cussing or saying whatever because it’s funny (though there ARE great moments of character specific comedy, esp with Moxxie). Most of the time I feel like I can give one character’s joke to another and it’d land the same (if it landed at all). Helluva Boss also has symptoms of “and then this thing happens!” rather than naturally building up to it. On the other hand South Park’s character comedy is on point- if I gave Stan one of Cartman’s typical punchlines it wouldn’t work for him (for example, his pathetic crying when Kyle hits him. Or making people unintentionally say “dick in balls” on T.V.). Matt and Trey also put a lot of emphasis on “but ___ therefore ___” which Helluva Boss tends to gloss over. “Cartman gets a job but doesn’t want to do any of the actual work while still getting benefits, therefore he creates his own business to hire people. But he doesn’t have the money to actually do anything, therefore he asks Butters to give him money…” you see where I’m going. Meanwhile Helluva Boss gets structured like… “Stolas finds out that Octavia stole his grimoire and is lost in the human realm, therefore he and the imps go after her. And then Blitz suddenly decides he needs a human disguise despite never using one before so they go off on a tangent to get one. And then he gets mistaken for a celebrity. And then-“ there’s no cohesiveness things just happen because they happen, not because there’s a logical jump. Anyway apologies for rambling you just got me pumped to talk about South Park’s superior writing LOL

[@a_naotenhonome780]

@@lerfarts lol i don't mind , i really liked your points there, i think a show like helluva boss who tries to be more edgy should try to take notes from south park/similar cartoons , To know how to balance this edginess with the characters, because usually the show tends to throw the character dynamic under a buss, just to make thee types of jokes, And it often ends up not even being funny since the characters don't have much charisma

[@xerox1084]

As someone who loves shows like South Park and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Helluva Boss's humor always rubbed me the wrong way. It's edgy humor with no backbone to it, nothing to say. Nothing is being satirized, or made fun of, or nothing. It's mean for the sake of being mean, it's graphic for the sake of being graphic, it's sexual for the sake of being sexual. And imo all of these things are fine, but they need to be backed up by something. By anything, and it simply isn't.

[@hv4329]

The power relationships and views on both men and women that the writers depict are especially interesting in this case. Compared to traditional western animation, this show has an overwhelming amount of queer people in its writing staff. To add to this, the creator is a woman. I don't think the writers have any bad intentions, it is however funny to me that they have created a show with this many problems. I guess cis white hetero men aren't the only ones projecting their fetishes and ideas in art.

[@jaylorts1608]

I agree with you, despite it's flaws they don't mean to be bad people.

[@crowdlycrow3632]

Doing sex jokes that are all but bo pro-LGTBQ?

[@weebmaster]

You know… Charlie and Stolas are both hell royals but yet only Stolas gets respect, even though Charlie is higher up than him. Why? Like actually why?

[@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669]

Because Vivziepop didn't plan anything for the world she created

[@notahumanbeing6892]

someone gave the obvious out of universe answer of unplanned worldbuilding, but in universe it could be that stolas plays into the system while we can see charlie doesnt even understand how corrupt the system is, so she cant play into it purposefully. she makes public missteps, is brazen in her wildly hopeful beliefs while surrounded by cynics, and the public only get these glimpses. I imagine they don’t respect her in the same way we don’t respect government officials who constantly goof up and act stupid. In power via nepotism or lobbying and then being flippantly detached from the realities of the average person.

[@TuesdaysArt]

It would've been interesting if HB dissected the stances on violence, sex, and power that you've mentioned in your essay...but we're stuck with The Stolitz Show instead.

[@Short_insomniac_]

As someone who was hyper-fixated on this show for a full year, now that I’m older, I’ve become more aware of how much Stolitz is a toxic “relationship.” I don’t “hate” the show, not by any means, but I’m just more aware of the abuse of Hells hierarchy, Stolas being the prince of hell and Blitz being a imp.

[@AlexMourning5635]

No seriously, why is hell just downtown LA

[@friendlycatwife]

This might be my favorite comment ever

[@coopuh]

About Sallie May, the only trans character so far in the show, if you check out the summer merch that Vivzie advertises on her page, you can see multiple items being sold depicting this character, (who has only been in one episode for maybe like 15 seconds total), in very clearly perverse swimsuit attire, giving her a buldge. I feel like that alone solidifies your overall point in this show just being for the kink, for the fetish. This show is sold entirely on the characters being visually appealing and doing funny haha and being able to provide "angst" when the writers want them to, while at the same time they are seemingly attempting to create a coherent story.

[@friendlycatwife]

I do know that the voice actor behind Sallie May is also a trans girl and she does like the fact that her character is depicted with a big bulge. Which is awesome! We all express ourselves differently and there is no one right way to be trans. What I do think is interesting is the life these characters take outside of their show, especially Sallie. Actually it’s even more than that because these characters enter into whole worlds of personality and backstory that do not exist for them within their own show. We know nothing about Sallie, but she’s a bonafide hit! You can buy her merch! People cosplay as her! The character was even in a Philosophy Tube video recently. It reminds me of my days in the Brony community where we all just made up personalities for background characters with no lines. Here though it almost feels intentional. Like these characters were made with that intention. A forced Derpy Hooves if you will. And yeah that’s super fascinating. I don’t think it’s even inherently good or bad. It’s just what’s happening right now. Though I do have this fear that if creators rely too much on fans to fill in the gaps, we’re going to see a lot shallower characters and stories.

[@octavianjoseph8633]

​@@friendlycatwifeYou would also be able to tell that Sallie Mae is trans if you just paid attention to the sexual dimorphosism in imps. Female imps have thin white lines on their horns, and black hair. Male amps have bigger white lines on their horns, and white hair. And not to mention the little blemish of white on Sallie Mae's hair, implying that she *dyed* it, should have already made it an obvious clue in.

[@friendlycatwife]

⁠@@octavianjoseph8633why do the imps have sexual dimorphism?

[@octavianjoseph8633]

@@friendlycatwife I think it's more dichromatism than dimorphosism, But why that is, is never alluded to in the show.

[@friendlycatwife]

@@octavianjoseph8633 no I mean, why did the creators make imps like that?

[@PlanetZoidstar]

I 100% can see where the inspiration from shows like Invader Zim and Billy & Mandy comes in with Helluva Boss. But I also think Rick & Morty's humour and writing influenced Helluva Boss. Especially with Blitzo, who is written VERY similarly to Rick Sanchez. Both are crass, nasty, emotionally distant assholes who are also tragically lonely and afraid to get hurt by getting attached.

[@sudonim3719]

I appreciate you pointing out the elephant in the room with Stolitz. I've been watching this show for a friend, and I see a lot of the fandom focus on Stolitz and how they're just such an amazing couple, but I just felt baffled at how people could watch the show and find it romantic or want it to happen. It made me uncomfortable watching the scenes play out and have the show portray Stolitz as some "troubled romance" to root for. I was actually a little surprised in the Season 1 finale at Ozzie's where Blitzo basically acknowledges their relationship has just been the transactional sex because I thought the show was gonna gloss over that. I know Stolas has romantic feelings for Blitzo, too, but it doesn't change the fact from Blitzo's perspective, he feels Stolas only wants his body and is being treated like an object (well that's true from an objective standpoint too). It makes it even harder for me to believe Blitzo is supposed to romantically love Stolas, when so far Blitzo is aware their interactions have just been coerced sex. People can make-up whatever like "Oh maybe Stolas has had sweet, non-sexual intimacies with Blitzo a lot too!", but it doesn't change the fact there's nothing in the show to really show or imply that. I shouldn't have to fantasize and headcanon to make this gross dynamic make sense. And one last thing to tack on is that even when the show tries to have moments where he does like the sex or feel romantically for Stolas, it just makes me feel like Blitzo is trying to condition himself to like it and enjoy it instead of hating it and aughghgv. Sorry for this giant ass tangent but you're one of the few people I've seen actually bring it up and I feel relieved to know I'm not the only one who saw it that way because I was doubting myself, and even now I'm kinda worried maybe I'm being overdramatic but aaa. I also wanted to say I think you are 100% right about it basically being a buffet for people to like whatever. I feel people fall in love with their own interpretations of the show and that lets them sit through this show

[@willieboi.]

Not to mention that Stolas and Blitz.. kindaaaa don't have much chemistry. Stolas just loves Blitz because he's sexy and feels like he's the only one who cares for him and that's it. Blitz sorta showed attraction when he saw Stolas' human form but that's it. Stolas laughed at some of his jokes in Seeing Stars and.. again, that's it. Even when they were kids, Stolas just fell in love with him right off the bat while Blitz clearly had no interest on what Stolas liked doing, that being books and studying.. and most definetly wouldn't find interesting now as adults since he's selfish as always. It's all just shallow

[@OkiSmokey]

@@willieboi.WHAT YOURE SO RIGHT- I’ve been trying to put a finger on why I was so bored by all their interactions even taking all the gross things out and it’s literally that they have no chemistry!!

[@cyanity1017]

Gonna be completely honest, it's extremely weird how helluva boss tries to skip around the fact stolas and blitzo's relationship is literally started from blitzo disguising stealing as a sex offer which could technically be considered bad in itself since one side is expecting an actual relationship while the other is just trying to get something out of it, which then leads to a literal rape contract meanwhile in hazbin hotel, a show set in the same universe, they have the character angel dust in the same situation where he's in a sex related contract he can't get out of with valentino and they actively show that situation is bad. Like, they're both situations where a male character is put in a contract where one side, another male character, gets sex out of the other in exchange to just keep their job so why is one actually treated as bad while the other is just treated like an "uwu they're just slightly toxic and need to learn to love eachother." Situation. Even if you're gonna treat one less bad than the other at least give it something that actually shows what the difference is, like have it be some reasoning like maybe stolas found out about the stealing later and blitzo offered to have sex with him every now and then to keep the book. It'd still be bad but at least you'd know it wasn't stolas who thought of the deal especially since we see when they meet again for the first time blitzo is the one leading stolas into thinking they're gonna have sex, cuz stolas just tries to catch up with how their lives are going and when blitzo makes fake sexual advances he does seem uncomfortable but then goes along with it after the bite [ granted stolas said 'you were here to ravish me' when they were in the room but he doesn't try to make any sexual advances after that, it seemed more like a small joke than anything. ] It's honestly really hard to make the situation look less bad than another similar one but they could have at least done SOMETHING to show why one isn't as serious as the other, but they don't even attempt to show a difference. Edit : i almost forgot about fizzarolli and mammon, cuz they're literally in a similar situation, granted it's not the same since we don't know much about what they do but we can see mammon choosing to make sex bots of fizzaroli while he's clearly uncomfortable with having his likeness be used for sex and even the fizzbots seem uncomfortable at the sex related part so you can tell none of them are consenting, not to mention even asmodeus states that he's uncomfortable making sex bots of fizz for mammon, and that contract is rightfully treated as bad. If one sex related contract is even treated as bad in the same show why is the other treated as normal?!?!

[@LiMe251]

29:31 moxxie did not choose to get drunk and only ended up drunk due to being forcefully trapped in a beer cooler whilst verocikka actively drinks of her own volition

[@DorothyEditing]

I just watched the whole video. I'm part of the Helluva Boss fandom (and Hazbin Hotel too), and I found your video very interesting. I love Helluva Boss, I've been watching for 1 year now. And I remember I was watching it out of curiosity because I had already seen the Hazbin Hotel pilot, and there was still this series to watch. I wouldn't have loved this series without the relationship between Blitz and Stolas, that's my favorite thing about this series. And I'm not going to argue why I like this show, or why I see the show differently than you said in the video, because I actually agree with a lot of things you said. It's not the first time I've seen a video on Helluva Boss that exposes a point of view similar to yours. And I realize that I agree with what is said, because it seems logical to me when it is explained, and despite that, I still love the series, and its characters. I'm probably a little blindsided, I missed some points of character behaviors, which are actually worse than I thought. I may also have seen too much fan art and comics about Stolas and Blitz, which appear different, and give me a slightly different view of what they are in the series. But I just love this show, I know there are flaws, I was seeing some already, but I will keep watching because I see potential, there are things I love about it. Your video was good, I liked it. Thank you for giving your opinion, it was very interesting, I hope you didn't receive any hate from the fandom. Anyway, I wanted to tell you that I liked your video, really, you seem like a nice person, and I will surely watch other videos that you will release ♡

[@friendlycatwife]

Awwwwww thank you so much! I totally respect your views and am so glad you found something that brings you joy ❤️. I’m not here to hate on anyone, but to express my own personal thoughts and analysis on something to the best of my ability. Hope you like my next video! ❤️❤️

[@xoticisnotgood]

With the addition of the newest episode of Helluva Boss where it talks about Moxie’s “homosexual past” with his father and…the show just made me very very uncomfortable by making it have abusive, homophobic, and sexual harassment themes. I’m a gay man, and I couldn’t help but think the episode was trying to paint gay people as bad and disgusting (not to mention that even in an episode that is specifically about Moxie, he’s still used as the punchline of almost every joke. Hell, he doesn’t even get to stick it to his father.)

[@billcipher8645]

It was actually the opposite. Crimson IS THE BAD GUY here, he IS homophobic and Moxxie calls him out on it. The humour was incredibly uncomfortable in this one, I agree 100% but I don't think they had any bad intentions at all

[@Xeorboom]

Crimm became one of my favourite villains of all time with a single scene (the flashback one where you can see what's going on but only 1 line is said)

[@jackbluehq6653]

But it's literally a show based in hell, isn't having bad people in this show spreading a good message? Yeah there's homophobic characters, characters that swear, hate everyone and act like terrible people, that's the point! This youtuber claims that there's to much bad people in this show that represent bad things, but its based in HELL. That's the entire point! I can't believe I have to spell this out, but hell is a place where bad people go due to their sins, so having homophobic, racist, sexist ect, Is literally the show saying that these types of people are BAD. Why are people getting offended at a show that's basically telling it's audience that these are bad people? I don't get it

[@T_E_G]

​@@jackbluehq6653 that's not a good argument. It's an excuse.

[@jackbluehq6653]

@@T_E_G i mean it is a good argument since ofcourse bad people will be in hell. I mean what do you expect for a show based in hell? a nice place where good and kind people go to? but to each their own I guess

[@Hot_Girl_Baking]

I feel like Helluva boss was supposed to be smt that isn’t serious and runs more on cheap “adult” humour (been watching since i was 15 lol) while the show Hazbin hotel will be relying proper character development. I still agree with alot of the points u made in this video such as the crappy writing for all the female characters.. we have more depth for Stolas who isnt even a MC he is a side character. The writers keep saying that there will be an episode dedicated to Milly and later Loona, but its been almost 4 years now, we’re in season two (season one is meant to lay the ground works for every character but they haven’t done that so poor writing) and there is STILL nothing for the two, not even in the sneak peaks, its all just Stolas and Blitzø

[@friendlycatwife]

idk I don’t see how Hazbin Hotel is going to be that different at this point. Like, if anything Helluva Boss has become more in line with the Hazbin Hotel vision. I’d like something good to come out of course, but I just don’t have high hopes right now :/

[@jmann531]

I sometimes wish moxxie was the main character in this show.

[@rustyshackleford234]

Me too man, I can actually relate to him lmao

[@Xeorboom]

yeah but if he was then the show would be better and I prefer to see an absolutely terrible guy slowly realise how many problems he's caused and having no way to fix them as opposed to a nice guy who doesn't do anything wrong (to be honest I hope that Blitzø dies and still doesn't fix anything)

[@jubileemoquin]

I have the same frustration with Heluva Boss that I do with most of Brandon Rogers’s content…he’s very creative & talented at vocal performance, character design & has unique & funny observations…but I just get so worn down by the aggressive cynicism, gross out humour & constant bullying that goes on between his characters. Like you said, it’s a very immature version of mature content. It’s too bad that the constant verbal abuse & swearing dilutes & takes screen time away from the really interesting potential in the show. I’m a sucker for good animation, great voice acting & also get attached to characters easy so I’m tolerating the gratuitous swearing, sexuality & violence in order to see more of the aspects I do like, hoping they at least get more organic & less performative. Hopefully they improve & at least expand on the world building/character development in the future because this world seems so interesting I want to know more about it!

[@moonzie37]

I really hoped to find something deeper in this show (for example, the message that we all have our own inner demons to deal with, or something similar), but the creators seem unbothered to create quality content. If these were my characters, I'd give them each the love and attention they deserve. I'd even be willing to wait a few more years to release the episodes, if it means making a classic.

[@dr.archaeopteryx5512]

I remember that my first reaction to the show was "They're not expecting us to like Blitz, right?" I guess I grew to tolerate his presence; maybe I shouldn't have. I did also think that Stolas' treatment of him was excessive, even for a joke about a character we're not meant to like, but whelp. Before I knew what happened, the show turned into a fanfic of itself. My girlfriend stopped watching it and I'm not sure if I should follow suit, I really hate how the characters not only refuse to grow, but in some cases even revert to easier archetypes. This seems to have absolutely wrecked Stella and Striker already, and I am worried about the other eventually-to-be-reoccuring villains now

[@ItIsTheLordWhoKeepsme]

Saw the new episode, huh?

[@dubitataugustinus]

I hadn't thought before about the difference between "a fetish show" and a show that exhibits fetishes. These concepts are worlds apart! The latter still centers on story and characters while indulging in some fetishes here in there. The former is a show that was born out of the fetish in the first place, and therefore makes it its priority. Great video!

[@richardjao748]

I always felt this show was basically “Deviantart/Tumblr: the Series”, but you were able to explain in better detail why it felt like that. Awesome job!!

[@denosaur9227]

I feel the same way too! Vivzie seriously needs to grow out of her edgy deviantart phase. And people are idiots for praising this series and not acknowledge that problem.

[@sonoio869]

@@denosaur9227 are you sure you are not the physical manifestation of my own thoughts?

[@denosaur9227]

@@sonoio869 Maybe lol.

[@Xeorboom]

I mean... it has Brandon Rogers who is basically the embodiment of that

[@kevonica]

45:10 it's also hypocritical because Loona is constantly sexualized in practically all of the merch she's inn, Stella is also sexualized in the recent Valentine's Day merchh, even though she's an abuserr... In factt, so is Stolas and Blitzz, both of them are sexualized there tooo (not to mention the merch where they made the chain scene in "Truth Seekers" with Stolas and Blitz look like it was romanticc) 💀💀💀

[@friendlycatwife]

Yeah I purposefully didn’t talk about any outside stuff but yeah putting all this together does paint a less than ideal picture. There’s nothing wrong with drawing and selling sexy art, but I do think context is important here

[@bluespectrum1348]

I rewatched both Helluva and Hazbin. It's funny how Vivzie claimed that Helluva was "more focused on the boys since Hazbin will be more focused on the girls" which is a complete lie. I'm a lesbian woman. And I can't help but feel a bit...I don't know...conflicted? It's pretty obvious to me that a lot of interactions and relationships in both shows are marked by this almost fetishistic feeling/vibe to it. Basically, fujoshi vibes from Viv and some writers. Are you seriously going to tell me that most men on the cast are not interested in females? IN HELL? Blitz is supposed to be pansexual. This doesn't show at all. Being Verosika's ex doesn't count because they don't show it to us. Never. He talks to her/abour her completely repulsed even though she's objectively pipping hot 😅. He's "pansexual" yet he only gets involved with other men. He sleeps with Stolas, he slept with Chaz, he made out with an imp in the Hellhound party, and was abot to makeout with the imp named Alejandro right after that. He wanted to makeout with Fizz too. He had that weird tension with Striker. As far as I'm concerned Blitz is a gay man. He does not seem interested in women at all. Why call him pansexual? Fizz is pretty much gay as well, Asmodeous is flamboyant and is in a gay relationship, we got no reasons to think he's into women as far as we know. Moxxie is in love with Millie, yes, but he's bi, and we get flashbacks of him with Chaz (and of course it HAD to be Moxxie and Chaz's background story and not Millie's 🤐). Stolas is obviously gay too and doesn't care for women either. Lmfao! 99% of the male cast is a gay man...not even in a good way. It feels fetishizing af, ngl. In Hazbin Hotel, the show that it's supposed to be about "the girls", the main couple, Charlie and Vaggie, doesn't even feel like a couple. They get a small peck kiss at THE LAST EPISODE. They don't make a single sexy joke regarding eachother. A lot of people didn't even know they were a couple up until the last episode, that should say something. Meanwhile...we get several instances of Angel being sexual to other men, scenes of men on men action, flirting between Angel and Husk, hell, even Vox and Valentino have a french kiss at the end of the show. Not to mention, it is not a surprise that Angel, Alastor, Lucifer and even Valentino are way, wayyyy more popular characters than the protagonist herself. And that is not a coincidence. Both Alastor and Angel have their own comics and Angel had his own nusic video (Addict). The shows is about the boys, just like in Helluva, despite what Vivzie says. Not even in the last episode Charlie was able to get the spotlight. Lucifer had to be there. Lucifer was the hero. Thank you, Viv. We really needed a male character in the spotlight since they are sooooo neglected in both of your shows...sarcasm. Is Viv allergic to women? There isn't a SINGLE lesbian relationship in Helluva. Not a single one. Are you really gonna tell me there isn't any lesbian action happening in Hell? Lesbians are way, waaaaaaaay more sexualized in the real world than gay men. Lesbians don't exist in Hell? No girl on girl action in the Lust Ring? Okay sure. The only lesbian relationship protrayed in the Hellaverse, Charlie and Vaggie, don't even feel like an actual couple at ALL. They only share a small kiss...in the last episode! I'm sorry but there is something going on here. I guess Viv is truly allergic to women and doesn't care about female characters. All about fetishized gay twink uwu boys. Okay. Got it. It is so lame and honestly it makes me super uncomfortable. It's just weird.

[@seacrystal6189]

It's the classic fujoshi misogyny. Those kinds of writers AT BEST portray women as wholesome lesbians in the background who have no character whatsoever. At worst they portray women as stupid sluts who get in the way of the main gay couple, even if they have the right to be mad (like Stella). And just like OP said, it all comes down to this being a fetish show. The authors find mlm relationships hot, so they see no purpose in women. And if women aren't hot then what good are they, right? (sarcasm)

[@Luxembourgish]

"The likable Moxxie is a patsy" just like Charlie in Hazbin, these characters are supposed to be fighting an uphill battle. It's the story. "This is r*pe" Coercion is leveraging power as a *threat* There is no threat made as Blitzo is not entitled to Stolas' book. People can consent to transactions, as shown with Only Fans. Customer gets saucy content (Stolas having sex) while the Only Fans girl gets the payment (Blitzo getting the book). "If I had to stumble on someone's identity like a loose floorboard, that's not good writing" It is good because it means their character comes before their identity, rather than all identities needing to be an obvious cardboard cutout. Minorities are people who just happen to be minorities, identity doesn't need to be front and center. "Blitzo always gets to bully his employees without reprocusion" Blitzo is portrayed a miserable and lonely man. Moxie calls Blitzo out on his flaws in their duet song, as he acknowledges he needs to try to be better.

[@ashannaredwolf8485]

Some acquaintances showed us Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel awhile back, neither my husband or I really liked it but I struggled to understand why until my husband said “it feels like all the characters are just queer to be queer, not because that matters”. So when you said something similar, it just felt like confirmation.

[@dammekratman6959]

I totally agree with your vid! However I want to point out that at 23:18 , the imps are sexually dimorphic, I think you’re supposed to conclude that Millie’s sister is trans because of her the thick white stripes on her horns and how it looks like her hair was dyed from white to black! And not because of her voice. But I also think that’s kinda stupid because it severely narrows the amount of characters that could possibly be trans

[@friendlycatwife]

Actually if you pause on a certain frame I do give my take on it 😅

[@sonoio869]

The reason this character was known to be trans is that the fans took it from what the crew tweeted no cap

[@gallibon1319]

One thing I REALLY hate about this show is the constant emasculation of Moxxie. It's not funny, it's just mean spirited; you don't HAVE to shove it in our faces and show off how "superior" Blitzo is all the goddamn time! Let Moxxie do cool stuff too!

[@gigachad3925]

To be fair, there’s nothing wrong with Moxxie being feminine. The issue is that the show tries to tie femininity inherently to inferiority, giving it a value judgment instead of just letting it be a form of gender expression with neutral connotation.

[@mocha8394]

the worst part about helluva boss is that when i finally decided to give it a chance and watched every single available episode i did not laugh a single time. it is a comedy. i didn't even smile

[@terstbrows3374]

As someone who considers themselves a super fan of this show while also accepting it's flaws as abhorrent, I have to say, I fucking lost it at the mention of Loona looking like she's from a different series entirely. Hit the nail on the head with that one.

[@supotter377]

Seriously she is just straight up furry bait

[@amberwingtundrawing776]

I know this isn't about the creator but I'm really glad more people are willing to critique her work rn! People seemed really scared of it up until now, I guess bc shes one of the few indie ppl who made it big so they're singing its praises for the sake of others? But yeah everything you said is present in her other works as well and I thought I was the only one who noticed

[@briasinterlude1755]

Great Analysis! One thing that annoys me is how the show frames the main characters (MC) as sympathetic and others as irredeemable when they both do horrible things. What’s worse is that the MCs don’t really show any signs of growth or reflection. Hope more people see this.

[@Birdyboys]

Super agree. Why is Stella being an abuser irredeemable but not the main characters literally murdering children and sexual assault

[@namkia205]

​@@Birdyboys The murdering children is for the laughs happens in a lot of shows, but when did a MC sexually assault someone??? Please answer I'm disturbed

[@FernandoMazzo175]

1:08 "I don't... _like_ Helluva Boss, I think it's... very bad." Truer words have never been said before.

[@blaria95]

@Fernando Mazzo, Lmao! 😂😂😂

[@CallOfTheDragon885]

Don’t treat your opinion as facts.

[@FernandoMazzo175]

@@CallOfTheDragon885 🤓

[@friendlycatwife]

It’s been months since I’ve posted this and I’m still seeing amazing and fascinating discussions in the comments! This was why I made the video: so people could engage with media critically. You all rock! ❤

[@whatalovelydayyt7640]

I just feel like this show adds more questions rather than answering them. It would be nice to keep things consistent than constantly adding new things.

[@moonzie37]

I heard even more new characters are gonna show up in the next episode. How lovely... But seriously, the creators need to deepen those who we already "know". Unless they really just want a "fun" show full of swearing and dick jokes

[@applefritters1387]

Love this video. This show isn’t perfect and it needs to be so much better. The fandom of this show is known to break down, harass, and bully anyone who criticizes Helluva Boss so stay clear and don’t listen to the haters.

[@CallOfTheDragon885]

Not all of us are like this. Stop making some of the Helluva fans look like assholes who can’t take criticism.

[@andreannad6329]

This is a great video. I'm so happy someone finally talked about how freaking weird the stolis blitzo relationship is. Everyone is, for some reason, so afraid to call it "problematic," when it's weird as shit. I call dubious consent if I want to be charitable. But. It's sexual abuse, really. The power dynamic is just to great to ignore. I also really dislike how they show blitzo being clearly uncomfortable with stolis hitting on him and being explicit, but then show them being in "love" a few scenes later. It just doesn't make any sense. I hate it. I hate it alot. Why does stolis even love blitzo? He's not particularly nice or kind to him. He shows very little actual emotional interest in him - hell, the show even goes out of the way to show stolis realizing it??? And then next episode their fine? The show really wants to fans to sqeee about how much they love the pairing, because Viv herself loves it, and that's all. Narrative and good story be damned. Also, wanted to say this. This show isn't made for adults. I'm an adult women in my 30s who still watches cartoons, watches south park, rick and morty, and so on. This SHOULD be my shit, but it's not. I wouldn't be surprised if very little people in my cohort actually enjoyed the show. It has nothing mature to say. Actually, I think the show goes very much out of its way to make the main characters be in the right a lot of the time and not morally gray. This is because this show is made for kids. Hate to say it, but it's made for zoomers to tic tok scenes of and say, im so like blitzo omg. My 12 year old niece likes this show. That's the demographic.

[@emmanuelcarter3551]

I think the demographic is for those that love being edgy and immature. I understand the fanbase most of the time are teenagers and Viv should do something about controlling her fans and forbid minors watching this show, but why would Viv go out of her way to make this specifically ONLY for minors? She has a Disclaimer up for a reason, telling the audience what the content contains. Viv has so much to criticize about such as appropriating stereotypes, you don't have to agree with me, but I think Viv catering to kids isn't right and if your 12 year old niece watched that show, maybe try to tell her parents that she's watching a show that's not for children. Now, if there's anything I would criticize Viv about is that she isn't taking action and knows she can make money out of any people, no matter if they're minors or not, as long as she has people to defend her whenever she gets herself into controversies.

[@trevormcmahan4415]

MADELINE THIS IS REALLY GOOD Like this is genuinely really good media criticism. The writing flows super well, the edit supports your points, your voiceover & on camera presence is well tuned, it's firing on all cylinders! Great great jobbbbbbbbbbb

[@friendlycatwife]

AHHHHHH THANKS TREVOR YOUR VIDEOS ROCK TOO!!!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@KeeeKeeedemon]

As much as I love the show, It does have it shortcomings and I hope both It, the Fandom and Hazbin Hotel do better.

[@Doodle_Dragon]

Agreed. I don't think I can really come away not liking it despite its flaws-it's a thing me and my friend bond over- but I just hope that what it has can become better.

[@KeeeKeeedemon]

@@Doodle_Dragon Yeah.

[@1000101010]

Absolutely loved this video. You did a great job breaking down the root issues the show has that goes beyond what's been commonly critiqued already. Considering how notorious the fandom is, I wish you the best and can't wait to see more from you!

[@cakefrosting6451]

Man your reasoning made me realise why I couldn’t connect with Blitzo at all. For a team that tries to claim they’re very inclusive ppl, they are putting a lot of harmful homophobia jokes in there, as well as some unnecessary body-shaming jokes, r**e jokes, and soon enough, in what seems to be the Millie-centric episode, trivialising su1c1de just for Millie to earn character growth in the form of “man I’m good at being Moxxie’s wife” after she realised she’s not good enough to “off” herself just because a random ass douche asked her to do so. Just because the crew themselves are LGTBQ+. Man almost sounds like Velma.

[@odothedoll2738]

About half of this video is “girl that’s a bit of a reach” and the other half is “damn girl go off”

[@friendlycatwife]

Haha thanks? 😅

[@odothedoll2738]

@@friendlycatwife now that I’ve finished it it’s more like 1/3d vs 2/3ds

[@friendlycatwife]

@@odothedoll2738 uh is that good? 😸

[@odothedoll2738]

@@friendlycatwife yes

[@friendlycatwife]

Yay! ❤️❤️❤️

[@Rowieismellow]

Not gonna lie I would have preferred Stola’s and Blitzo’s dynamic delved more into how their class effected them. It would’ve been so cool if instead of Stolas just being a chill guy he instead held the classist ideas of his family (social class, honestly the whole class system of hell confuses me) he could have started out being an asshole. He could have only viewed Blitzo as a plaything, not having romantic feelings for him. The show could slowly develop him as he starts to love Blitzo and see him as a person, eventually leading to him having romantic feelings. Blitzo could also have assumptions about Stolas that are broken down over the series. He could relate to him when it came to them both having a dysfunctional relationship with their families and struggling to connect with their daughters (cue LuLu land). This means you could have the “we can’t be together because of class differences” because Blitzo would get judged for being with an upper class member of hell (being seen as a suck up) and Stolas would be judged for being with a lower class imp. Idk Stolas and Blitzo could be so cool but they feel a bit flat? I don’t want to sound like I’m trying to say I’m a better writer that the writers of Helluva but so much of this show feels wasted.

[@vintageincolor]

That intro is something Moxxie would have written

[@friendlycatwife]

Awwwwww thank you! I was trying to match the vibe of the show when I wrote it ❤️

[@Lillx__]

yes thank you! I’ve always been iffy on the series, sometimes it seems like its pretty animation and character designs covers up for its bad writing. We still don’t know at all how this world works, there’s been hardly any consequences for anything like Blitzo using the book despite what the show keeps telling us, it seems like any time a character ends up getting some out of nowhere character development it gets erased in the next episode (or the same episode in Loona’s case 🙄), the show going out of its way to make Stolas look like an “uwu baby who did nothing wrong” when that was not at all the case and season 2 butchered any chance of him growing to accept what he did was wrong when he goes right back to flirting with Blitzo despite episode 7 implying their relationship was going to change. and yeah despite it being trying to be “mature” the humor and complexity of these characters reads like an edgy kid who just learned the f word. Also for the “it’s hell!” argument, so it’s okay and normal when Blitzo and Stolas are terrible people but Stella’s abuse should be taken seriously and emotionally? Loona hitting her dad is funny but Stella trying to hit Stolas is too far? You can’t have both! I’m glad other people are also bothered by all this and letting fans yell at them that it’s perfect in every way. Great vid!

[@Rohtix]

It's essentially an unfiltered deviant art show. The designs, the writing and the audiences infatuation with it. Can't expect much more from it, honestly.

[@victoriabelatti7141]

Though I don't agree with every single statement (obviously) this was a very interesting video essay! It made me rethink certain aspects of a show I enjoy and respect, but am completely aware of its mistakes. And on top of that, it was greatly entertaining because of your editing and the way you express yourself. I really enjoyed it!

[@yourfriendlyneighborhoodgh29]

I hate it when a show has such good animation(or when a comic is drawn really well), and the rest of it is….. bad. I don’t even really like any of vizziepops designs but the animations still good. Edit: also the characters being queer to cover for their homophobia low key reminds me of how in the dear Evan Hanson movie they made his friend gay for the same reason lmao

[@sergio88099]

Jared or Connor?

[@laneatylers5805]

@@sergio88099 Jared

[@axolotlfairy2473]

God everything you've said about Stolas and Blitzo's relationship is everything I've thought about them and TBH viv's work in general. Gay men are fetishized to an unhealthy degree in her work, and people say it's okay because Viv is "making them sympathetic" even though she's just feeding more into stereotypes. What you said about the female characters is so true, too. Viv explictly said that Millie and Loona were last minute additions, and you can REALLY feel it compared to Blitzo and Moxxie. Also yea the lore behind hellhounds is awful and raises horrible, HORRIBLE implications. The fact Helluva is probably just gonna brush over it makes it even worse. The lore in Hazbin/Helluva is a NIGHTMARE, and it really feels like Vivzie was making it up as she went, which would be FINE if it was it's own thing, but for Helluva the fact it's connected to Hazbin makes everything 5000x more confusing and on Hazbin's end it definitely seems like it's trying to be more serious. Also about Sallie Mae: Viv CANNOT stop marketing her, and saying "LOOK LOOK TRANS REP" when as you said, she's only in the show for less than a minute. Also Viv created Valentine's pins which include Sallie and they put....an uncomfortable amount of detail on her bulge tbh. Overall I CANNOT believe this is your first video EVER, cannot wait to see more from you.

[@friendlycatwife]

Oh my gosh thank you!!! That’s so kind of you!!! I had no idea about Millie and loona being last minute additions but it definitely makes sense. I’m really glad to see this video’s resonating with so many people cause I’ve had these thoughts about her work since Hazbin hotel but I just wasn’t seeing anyone talking about it. That’s why I wanted to make this ❤️

[@axolotlfairy2473]

@@friendlycatwife i completely understand why you didn't cover supplementary material but in the future maybe you could make a video going over it, even things like the amount of merch a certain character gets can give you a glimpse into the weird mindsets behind helluva

[@friendlycatwife]

I might make it a Patreon stretch goal but I am very ready to move onto a different topic. I feel like once I talk about outside things I have to go into personal details on the creators, which would require another month of research for an hour long video lol. I’m ready to talk about a totally new thing ❤️

[@axolotlfairy2473]

@@friendlycatwife entirely fair, just a suggestion and you do what you're happiest with! I'm looking forward to seeing your essays in the future regardless

[@friendlycatwife]

Thank you! Still debating what the next one’s going to be. I might go with something happy so I don’t get branded a “hater” 😅

[@foxidermyvaughan4457]

not a fan of the show but calling the different colored horn "like putting a penis on their heads "is sorta off base when its more a nod to other species with color based sexual dimorphism. It'd be like having a girl bird character who is really colorful but in the bird theyre based on the females are grey/brown, often times this is done accidently like when the US regendered a bird character in animal cross because they were too flamboyant

[@smolshark9488]

Oh god the fandom will rip you apart but I totally agree, HB is basically your typical edgy adult show where they say “Fuck” every second, except It has good looking animation and that’s enough to get a fanbase.

[@friendlycatwife]

I mean I’m a brand new channel that just started yesterday so I’d be surprised if they even know I exist 😅

[@chansfeet2500]

Don't forget (poor) but existing LGBTQ+ representation. I'm willing to bet that the rep is one of the only things keeping it afloat.

[@Tkinoi]

Great video, all the excuses I see about this show are just like “it’s an indie show” “it’s in hell” …doesn’t mean it’s good

[@Xeorboom]

I will point to my favourite show, Epithet Erased which has some of the best characters and writing I've ever seen.... but Helluva has Alex Brightman

[@KrystineChristenson]

i wonder if they're trying to get around the whole Stolas, Blitzo R-word thing by having Blitzo being the top... but that doesnt make it any less rapey he's still being coerced

[@oliviab4079]

You really hit the nail on the head with this analysis and articulated something I've always thought of but couldn't put into words: Helluva boss feels more like deviantart fuel and needlessly edgy internet in-humor for that young adult animation fan demographic who's emotional intelligence never matured past high school than an actual show That's a very specific roast I know, but that's the specific audience this show caters to and it's an audience very hungry for content which Helluva rapidly supplies. Though I have begun to see a turning point of people calling out the show's faults and inconsistencies from former fans themselves. It makes me wonder how Hazbin Hotel is going to be received whenever it debuts, and I wonder if the team is shooting themselves in the foot right now showing off their 'brand' so to speak and and if people are going to take so immediately to Hazbin when it releases vs when the pilot dropped

[@Corrector1]

Even if Helluva Boss wasn't having problems, there's another factor I've wondered about. People have had years to come up with their own ideas for Hazbin Hotel. What if people end up feeling that the fan works are more interesting than the actual show?

[@midgetwaffles8635]

Fantastic review! Thank you for making this. I'm a huge fan of Vivziepop. I have been for many years. And I've been personally avoiding negative reviews of Helluva Boss because admittedly, I don't want to believe that one of my childhood idols could do wrong. Nobody really does. But watching this video allowed me to come to a bittersweet conclusion; this show may be visually stunning, but you are totally correct in saying that this show is horribly written and plays into stereotypes more often than it likes to admit. As much as I want to support Viv in her work, I might take a step back from this show to reflect on how she hasn't really changed from her tumblr/deviantart days as much as I'd like to think. I appreciate you making this video because it was a wakeup call, but not a rude one. I hope Hazbin Hotel does better. It BETTER do better. Or I think I'll move onto better things. I also hope you continue to make reviews like this because this video has earned you a sub! Keep up the good work!

[@friendlycatwife]

Thank you for being so kind! I know it’s hard to criticize something you treasure, and it hurts to find faults in the things you like, but I think that’s what true love is. Loving something isn’t just blindly accepting every decision the thing or person you like makes. If you truly love something, you get mad, you criticize, you tell them this is not working. Otherwise it’s just blind devotion. Blind devotion isn’t love. It’s a religion 😢

[@NoodleGuyZen]

Man, I love the reviews coming out about Helluva Boss that aren't just kissing the show’s ass tbh. Your points are well constructed and you perfectly put my opinion on Stoliz into words, and then some. Lovely job

[@cookiecat7759]

Tysm for talking about bow stolas literally coerced blitz into sex and its never taken seriously because holy shit 😭 like why is it just a regular thing that happens whatt

[@thisisanaccountalright]

Love how you explained the purpose of fanfic and how it works. I couldn't put into words why I love fanfic but hate that this show feels like a fanfic lol.

[@Pauli-dg2yv]

I think Helluva boss needs more actual slurs and Blitz saying that the R word is no longer "acceptable" in the show does not make any sense. Theyre in hell. Who tf is gonna stop them?

[@CHROMEBARS]

Great analysis! I shared most of the same thoughts as you but was too afraid to point them out since the helluva boss can get defensive…at this point I’m only watching the show for Moxxie who has said complexity to his character. Though the recent episode…it was a big yikes for him. I can only hope Hazbin Hotel doesn’t follow the same route as Helluva Boss

[@PlanetZoidstar]

Same.

[@gallibon1319]

Saaaaaaaaaaaaame.

[@notahumanbeing6892]

I disagree on some points but I really don’t care because a real thought out critique on helluva OR hazbin is really hard to find, it’s mostly just repeated talking points to the point that im not convinced most of them actually watched the show, and instead fully formed their opinions based on clips from social media. Thank you for laying out what’s actually going on in this show, not just mudslinging.

[@friendlycatwife]

Oh my gosh thank you! I really appreciate that! I made this because all the videos criticizing helluva boss were terrible and homophobic. Nobody was talking about what I thought were the ACTUAL problems.

[@notahumanbeing6892]

@@friendlycatwifeit was definitely a niche that needed filling, and gives a place in the comments for a lot of related discussions

[@funkyvamp]

(only in the first 10 minutes of the video so take this with a grain of salt) I dont think its fair to say blitz never gets punished for being a dick. Second to Moxxie, he's the shows punching bag (emotionally atleast). And its shown in the show that he's mean to those around him, not as a result of homophobia, but as a defense mechanism of pushing anyone away who comes close yet desperately wanting a healthy relationship (whether it be friends, partners, or with his adopted daughter Loona). We haven't figured out why exactly he does this (which is an issue I have with the show; so many episodes and enemies yet the plot remains mostly stagnant). Yeah he's a dick but so is everyone else in *hell* (and people say "well moxxie and millie and charlie are nice", 3 kind people don't change the fact that its hell, and they also have their moments). ALSO about you calling stolas and blitz's "relationship" rape. This is something I COMPLETELY disagree with, or atleast think was a poor choice of words. Blitz and Stolas are both consenting to the interaction, no matter how unenthused Blitz is about it. Is it exploitative yeah, but it isn't rape and I frankly think you should reeducate yourself on what rape is because this can't be compared to the sexual trauma rape causes as blits can just say "no", sure his business couldn't progress but thats what makes it exploitation or blackmail but not rape.

[@brigade7678]

We do now have one HUGE reason for why Blitzø pushes away people yet craves connection desperately. They took their time but there was always a hint of this, even in Truth Seekers, and because the seasons take SO long to get through it leaves people months or years to get angry that things have not progressed when in-world its not been very long at all. One of the biggest "flaws" this show has is coming out with episodes so far apart, which isn't something they can change. Both good points. Blitz is implied to NOT mind the meetups several times. Its a contract closer to "prostitution" than rape and I agree its weird and upsetting as a SA survivor to see people call it such. They are mutually exploiting each other and the latest episodes/music video and upcoming episode are finally addressing that. We are seeing the characters slowly come to terms with the messes they have made, and reconnecting with other people (or at least trying to) and taking steps to make amends.

[@CallOfTheDragon885]

@@brigade7678Do SA survivors hate Stolas?

[@brigade7678]

@RedDragon45360 well I can't speak for all SA survivors ^^; I can say I personally do not hate him at all, and see it far closer to sex work than assault. Especially after s2ep1 Circus we see Blitzø did choose to sleep with him the first time, pity sex is still not SA, and that he stayed all night hinting he VERY much enjoyed himself. I think at worst Blitzø doesn't like that his business is not only off his own merit, as a pride /self-worth issue. At worst Stolas needs to recognize his unsavory way of treating Blitzø if he wants to try to pivot into romance, which I think he is doing in "Just Look My Way" owning his side of things. The show is amazing for letting the characters slowly change/grow.

[@CallOfTheDragon885]

@@brigade7678 Is sexual coercion forgivable?

[@brigade7678]

@RedDragon45360 I feel as if you did not respond to my comment & just want to use black & white questions to prove your point instead of discuss something. But I suppose that would be for the one who was wronged/coerced to decide. I've experienced people doing harmful shitty things out of selfishness & ignorance who were remorseful or ashamed afterward, who I felt I could talk with and give another chance to. I've had others cause too much damage or maliciously do so, or continuously do so, that I would rather die than give another chance to them. Communication, remourse, and most of all a dedication to change decide that for me. It's not black & white, and I don't think Stolas is portrayed as a purposeful malicious or unrepentant abuser/manipulator. I will enjoy watching the show grow/change his character. Unlike say Valentino who is simply a monster I will personally not enjoy the development of.

[@ruthie8785]

18:33 this is always what’s bothered me about this show.

[@raysquid3474]

6:03 Yes, I know... another comment. /j But for me, the reason why they are so unlikeable is not because "main character evil!" (this is what the fandom is saying not you btw.) its because *"main character is evil but also gets almost zero accountability or consequences for his actions unless it's to make you feel "uwu bad!" for him, and he also keeps getting away with obviously reckless behavior that should have gave him a consequence (like episode 4, how would they not know that I.M.P were there if they were able to detect CHERUB?) but doesnt, because the writers are too busy giving them pitty parties to care about accountability to the point where the only way to actually like him is if you're an ahole yourself. Same for Stolas, Stella, Loona, Season 2 M & M, etc."* which is why him and so many of the other HB characters are so "unbearable." Watching an ahole get away with awful behavior over and over again while trying to sugarcoat what he does isnt just reptitive, its also so annoying that I stopped being invested in the story altogether and now just watch the show ironically. The mc is *that* bad. It makes it so theres no reason to root for him to change because the writers like the way they currently are to begin with. Which is why they sugarcoat him and Stolas and their relationship so often- *They dont actually "want" them to change.* They just want them to randomly "change" so they can give themselves a pat on the back and say "Its ok to like the way they are now with all their terrible behavior that we favor so much because we'll be seen as good people for rooting for them and backpeddling on their actions once they change later! Stolas and Blitz endgame 4 life lol!" and it causes the narrative to come off as virtue signaling instead of redemption. That's the problem with Helluva Boss, and even Hazbin Hotel to an extent- *The writers dont want them to change, they just want to virtue signal their way to an un-natural change to make them romanticizing the way they are NOW look "good."*

[@raysquid3474]

Also- I agree they made Blitz SOOOOOO overpowered and plot armored it makes his aholeness all the more insufferable.

[@succubushunter6093]

@@raysquid3474 How is Blitz overpowered? He gets kidnapped and beaten by his foes throughout the entire series. Not only that but he's in a bad place in society given imps are treated poorly. 😥

[@AlexMourning5635]

You've pretty much laid out all my issues with this show. I also struggle with taking this world's stories as they come. The episodes feel like someone's brainstorming sandbox for their original characters, which uhhh isn't a great thing for a work trying to prop itself up alongside a professional industry. [Fair warning, I do kinda go into Blitz's SA and how that's handled.] I recently watched Gravity Falls for the first time (yes, I know, hush), and for some reason I couldn't stop drawing parallel between the two? It feels like HB is relying on storybeats from other popular works of fiction for their audience to get what's going on. Not in a "Shakespeare re-imagining Greek plays" way, but in a "you need to have an updated knowledge of pop culture to follow along with the plot of this episode" way. It doesn't even have the decency of explaining the easily explained things that could be covered with background details. Ep 2 could have shown the de-age machine being dismantled or mentioned, or the billionaire could seem like he's on the cherub's side, but neither happens so you're left questioning why didn't they use the machine again or just committed to killing the guy themselves. It didn't make sense until I watched a kid's show where **children** get side-tracked and distracted for good reasons that made the **adult, immortal imps** not offing a capitalist. Stolas canonically SA'ing Blitz, or at least pressuring him into s3x as a business transaction was my first (and should've been only) red flag for this series. Especially with how the show handles the tone and framing of their supposed "love" stories. I'm not convinced the writers really understand interpersonal relationships or really understand the heavier subject matter they're trying to discuss. Especially when the tone tries to handle something heavier, it seems like something we've heard before, it's shallow or unearned, or just immediately undercuts itself (see all Octavia episodes as example for some reason). It really wants to push and shove the audience to root for the SA'er and the victim to fall in love, without really stepping back and realizing what they mean by that. And for some reason, the show seems to dig it's heels in harder. I'm never sure what tone I'm meant to be reading from the show, except that gay sex is really cool, SA victims should just take it if their SA'er can be a good "sugar daddy", men owning their sexuality and horniness is a cool thing, men making demeaning misogynistic jokes and pushing sexual boundaries is a cool thing, but women who do those same things are satanist monsters who should be punished for it. The actual feeling for any given episode is completely up in the air. Any fem character who isn't overtly sexual or evil is just flat and kind of a non-character. Every overtly fem character is treated like a joke for their femininity, and every male character owning their body and sex is vilified. Cool, I guess? And the entire show treating Blitz as a jerk for not reciprocating Stolas...? Ick. Blitz's entire business is beholden to sleeping with Stolas, but it's supposed to be tragic and star-crossed since Stolas is secretly in love with him, and Blitz secretly loves him but won't admit it to himself (or ever show any actual interest in Stolas on-screen when not introduced). It's the same damn story as Angel Dust and Fizzaroli, just romanticized and "aw, shouldn't you sympathize and root for them to be together forreal" to hell and back without actually addressing the issue? Idk. I have problems with how the same situation is shown in so many different angles, one of which condemns this exact relationship, but this one has a weirdly contrived tonal use of "you should feel and view these situations this way" scenes. I'd go on, but I feel like I'd just write an 8-page dissertation on why a queer show doesn't seem to want to be queer or imply it's alright to be any other sex outside of XY. If anything, I'll give Helluva Boss this: you always notice the hand of the author.

[@glorygloryholeallelujah]

That was an unusual intro…. And I freaking *loved* it! 😁❤️👍

[@qwertyqwerty-jy9fc]

I actually kinda like loonas design simply because its kinda funny to me and i thought its funny on purpose? Like loona to me is a throwback. A throwback to like. This stereotypical furry design, the kind of furries vivzie used to draw a lot, and she looks like an emo kid who would draw themselves af a wolf, her desigj isnt 2020s to me at all. And thats kinda funny to me, like it looks like an on purpose reference and i was always confused by people thinking loona is hot without any reflection. But my reading might be too charitable, i acknowledge the criticisms toi

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

They desperately want me to care about Stolas and Blitzø's romance, but they've done nothing that makes me buy them being an actual couple. They made that the only theme, and couldn't pay me to care. It would serve Helluva Boss well if it shifted to other characters and theme for a longer while. Like how everybody is screaming for a Millie or Luna focused episode, which I doubt will happen, because there's no room for it in the melodramatic, boring soap opera it has become.

[@friendlycatwife]

Thank you all so much for the kind comments! I was very worried about how this video would go over (for obvious reasons) but you’ve all been so nice and make me feel like I can really do this whole KZbin Video Essay thing! I hope you enjoy the next video I make!! ❤️ P.S. thanks for being kinder than tiktok. They were…not as welcoming lol 😅

[@KrystineChristenson]

hmm this feels like a show that came out a decade way too late, like in the mid 2000s this sort of cynicism was more in vogue

[@chansfeet2500]

Ironic how Viv dodges having characters from certain eras dressing/acting like they were from that time period because "They caught up with the times", while she is still stuck about 15 years into the past.

[@reformedorthodoxmunmanquara]

Nice theme song.

[@moonzie37]

This show is like a drug; you know it's bad but you can't get enough of it.

[@cinny8618]

24:08 If only you knew what vivienne was really like

[@CallOfTheDragon885]

Tell me

[@MeederC]

This was a great reveiw. Hope you make more reveiws soon

[@julietaduarte8922]

I had honestly not considered a lot of the issues you mention and I thank you for bring them to my attention. I also completely agree that female characters get the short stick on the show and that that's a problem, but I disagree on Stolas and Blitz as characters being a bad base for a story just because they are terrible as people. Their "relationship" may be toxic to hell and back (no pun intended) but I think they are fascinating and it makes me wonder what kinda show we may have gotten if that amount of character work was a bit more balanced between all characters. I love Mox, Millie and Luna and I would love to see more of them too. Or even just have ANYTHING relating Stolas' divorce explored with a bit more depth than the b plot to a lot of jokes. So yeah, I've watched a lot of trainwreck shows because I loved the characters and I will continue to do but the fact that the high and the lows from this particular show are so pronounced (for me personally anyway) definitely make it hard to ignore so I get how you feel.

[@succubushunter6093]

Agreed so much with all of this! 💯

[@dbpages6327]

Best critique of Helluva Boss on KZbin as far as I’m concerned. I am a sucker for juvenile edgy slapstick humor and imo, I think Helluva Boss is at its best during its dumb fun and action segments. Helluva Boss starts to get lost in the sauce when it wants the audience to take things seriously, especially if you look at the show as a whole and not just at an individual episode. The lack of care for its female characters sucks, and I wish things stuck to the initial premise of a gang of assassins vs just becoming the Blitz and Stolas show. I'm just along for the ride at this point as I do want to see how things end.

[@W1LL0W_.]

Ok is it just me or not because I keep going back on this video just to hear this theme song bcus omg it’s a bop!!

[@friendlycatwife]

I honestly think it would be a good theme song for them! VIVZIEPOP HIRE ME!!!

[@W1LL0W_.]

@@friendlycatwifeYES. She is required to hire u.

[@friendlycatwife]

@@W1LL0W_.lol I should write something in the style of the show for gits and shiggles 😂

[@icecreamhero2375]

"Adult cartoons shouldn't have the pacing of nicktoons and cartoon cartoons" Why not it works for Clone High.

[@sonoio869]

The real question would be, would clone high be impossible to understand by people under 18? And why would that be the problem not being just for adults? Tone is just a tone, just think on what you have to say and say it well, Vivienne does not understand this and i am not happy a lot of creators don't know it either 😔

[@icecreamhero2375]

@@sonoio869 I think they would get the joke. I am 25 and I never watched a teen drama before but I got it. Older Disney Channel sitcoms used similar tropes. Girl in love with Guy but he doesn't know, stereotypical popular kids, etc. The characters are also over dramatic over the stupidest things.

[@sonoio869]

@@icecreamhero2375 sorry, i was trying to say a show like clone high is not something only adults can understand it didn't make any sense to my statement sorry 😅

[@icecreamhero2375]

@@sonoio869 My brother is under 18 and was laughing at the first episode.

[@sonoio869]

@@icecreamhero2375 yup, tell him the second season is propaganda made up by the CIA and that it never happened