The sin next to murder in Mormonism

Ep. 1459: • Expelled from BYU for ...
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Ep. 1459: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJmulKh_a52jnrc

[@keithherrera1038]

Sounds pretty logical.

[@sademccall6838]

It’s a cult. Jesus forgives all

[@paulnewkirk7351]

I have always wanted to have my own planet to rule. So I wear the proper undergarments, no fruit of the loom. I don't drink coffee or coke. I do all of the stuff like riding my bicycle around town and lie to people. I feel bad for all the other cult members.

[@busylivingnotdying]

@@bubba_good That is because you are NOT responsible for your nature and natural inclinations. you didn't create yourself! Your nature is NOT an addiction. And fighting it with that type of fear is DESTRUCTIVE and makes sexual desires INCREASE (not decrease). There are better and gentler ways to help the youth!

[@chikkipop]

@@sademccall6838 "Jesus" is just another cult. Grow up!

[@MeanGinia9607]

I'm multi generation Mormon on both sides of the family. I had a child while not married at 25. Some of my family tried to force me to give her up for years. Now 21 years later, I have no contact with my father and basically no contact with 6 siblings, all of my Aunts, Uncles, and cousins and all of their children. My mother was the ONLY blood relative who always stood by me. Religious people can be such hypocrites.

[@henryng9406]

❤️❤️❤️

[@gregbailey45]

You're well off out of it.

[@strangerinastrangeland6865]

I’m raised by aethiest and I’m also excommunicated by my whole family, ironically made me understand the bible better or the sentiments in it, such as “a prophet has no honour in his home town” in that story they killed Jesus for telling the truth they didn’t want to hear, I was excommunicated for telling the truth as well, the truth hurts and people don’t like to hear it, even if they need to, There is no such thing as a non religious person in my experience, just many things people treat as sacred

[@Heidelmann]

Give up your daughter? Who does that serve?

[@rurome2151]

​@@strangerinastrangeland6865 Has little to do with having or not having faith... it's more about intollerance

[@bendingunit-rw1vc]

The bishop asked why I am not doing what he told me to do, I looked at him confused and said you are not my father and you don't tell me what to do. The look if shock on his face. I didn't get kicked out but they never called me in to talk to me again. Be strong and stand up for yourself.

[@faithm9284]

Bending unit 2847 You have my utmost respect! 🥳💌

[@SquashBlossom62]

Better yet, get out. RUN

[@kellyjewell1899]

There is nobody that has a direct line to God or JC...they are preaching what was preached to them, right or wrong.

[@allanmason3201]

@@ukokepaoa5536 The only place a bishop "speaks from" is a position of very limited power that he's been placed in by other men in a social hierarchy created by yet other men.

[@edmc1000]

@@ukokepaoa5536 the Bishop is not God nor was he appointed by God. The book of Hebrews teaches that after Christ died for our sins on the cross we do not need a priest or intermediary between us and Christ. We can come directly to him in prayer.

[@RowanWarren78]

I experienced the same kind of shame and guilt concerning sexuality in the Southern Baptist Church. We girls were taught that if we couldn't give our future husbands the "gift of our virginity", then we had nothing to offer. If you had already lost your virginity, you were beyond redemption. I wish more people knew how common this was. The pastor and his peers spent most of our Sunday mornings talking about the politics, the fate of unrepentant sinners, making jokes about gay people, and denigrating everyone outside the faith. I was so happy to get out of there. I packed everything I had into my little Ford Contour (worst vehicle ever 😂) and left home for Atlanta.

[@Karateboy6]

Wow, sorry to hear that, and I pray that collagen all over Pentair centers. (They apologize and all are repentant sinners) 🙏🏼🕊

[@boxoffisa]

Did you finally get married?

[@RowanWarren78]

@@boxoffisa 22 years, married to my best friend. He's awesome.

[@boxoffisa]

@@RowanWarren78 that’s so inspiring. I hope that miracle to happen to me. Amen.

[@johndavolta3124]

Do you have contact with your parents and family?

[@Cindy-qo2uo]

I got disfellowedshipped for spending the night at a friends house- a man- instead of sleeping in my car. My husband kicked me out of my house and that wasn’t addressed, but I was at fault for staying the night under another man’s roof. The bishopric told me they loved me, as they humiliated me by talking about these issues to everyone behind my back. Such a dark time in my life, being Mormon. A very toxic and dysfunctional group of people.

[@natakhavan]

That is such a toxic way to be taught & raised to think. It's insane.

[@ericczimskey2533]

And having sex at 12 years old isnt?!

[@chikkipop]

@@ericczimskey2533 What does that have to do with what she said?

[@natakhavan]

@ericczimskey2533 why, who was having sex at 12 yrs old???

[@chikkipop]

@@godworden2768 What is the *"proper union"* and how does the lack of it show?

[@chikkipop]

@@godworden2768 I don't know about "karma," but I know humans aren't perfect, and it's not surprizing that many find themselves in less than optimal situations. I certainly wish more families would remain intact for the benefit of the children, but realistically that isn't going to happen as much as we want.

[@Sashique86]

That's so sad. And I see so many Reddit posts by husbands trying to get their wife to be open to having sex with them now that they are finally married but she's too traumatized. Every one of them needs to be shown this.

[@alapahi]

@@rondenniel2894 here's another fact, if you haven't committed spousal rape then I'd eat my hat.

[@court2379]

I have seen it as well. Many religions teach chastity so heavily and then expect once married to have lots of children. It messes people up mentally. They shame them if they give in. They don't teach about birth control and STDs so that when they do make a "mistake" they really make one. They don't teach about healthy relationships and behavior around sex. They are told to do things that conflict with biological urges that creates distress in a young person's life. That can lead to depression. It's all around just messed up.

[@someundeadtalent2016]

@@rondenniel2894 Not at all. If a man marries you, and knows about your background, he shouldn’t push you to do anything. That’s called rape.

[@someundeadtalent2016]

@@josephcoon5809 traumatized by being taught that a woman who has sex is worth nothing, and that having sex = almost being a murdered Yes that’s traumatizing, cause it’s a normal human need

[@donjerthemisfit]

@@josephcoon5809 I love how you deflect, it's so like you religious puppets, but go on though; for I find amusement in knowing that your subscription to those ideologies are in fact detrimental to your mental health whilst you're absolutely certain that you're righteous. 😂😂😂😂😂 #ReligiousZombies

[@carlabeck4861]

I remember being told that by my bishop. This is almost like murder. Yes a 17 year old girl dealing with statutory rape is almost a murderer. My mom cried so hard that you would have though I was dying. And when I almost died due to a suicide attempt because I thought I was almost a murderer. She didn't even care. I swear...

[@markfryer9880]

It's such a messed up value system that it isn't actually about moral behaviour but rather controlling behaviour.

[@bia.miller]

I’m so deeply sorry you went through this. I am so horrified how this ‘bishop’ and your mom treated you. I hope you have been freed from their stupidity and that time has managed to bring you strength and healing 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@jessicashenefield1546]

Carla, I hope you are now surrounded by people who care for your wellbeing without strings attached, and that you have found a credible therapist to help you process the traumas you have survived.

[@alisonpham767]

Narcissist. Thats it really. You may not think she is, but the good doesnt make her not one. When a mother cares more how something makes her look and feel, dont even bother bringing up anything. Then youll see its even worse than you thought first time around.

[@carlabeck4861]

@@alisonpham767 oh I know. It's been 6 years since this happened. And I've started to really learn who she is.

[@lindsay644]

Hi...formor Mormon here and this one hit hard. I was sexually abused as a kid, then again as a young adult. I grew up being told the sin next to murder crap and already thought I was disgusting and dirty for having thoughts in my head about the trauma I had experienced and was remembering and did not understand. When I finally gave in and let it happen(literally what happened and it was not fun, special or beautiful nor was he nice about it)or this guy I was thought I was dating, I was 19 and was blacklisted from my family when my friend told on me, even though I no longer lived at home since age 16. I could not talk to or be around my younger siblings for fear " the behaviours would spread" as of it was some disease. When I got pregnant out of wedlock in 2004 with my BFs(who is now my husband)kid, wooooah nelly. I lost a ton of "respect" from my dad and he said he thought of me as "dead". This cult is such a pos and the day I quit going was the day my guilt and shame and healing process began!

[@mylie6181]

@@orinsweeney2805what

[@cutoverpark9596]

@@mohamedf8859Deserve what Buddy??

[@lindsay644]

@@notyouagain1428 no.... I got pregnant WITH(with meaning the baby)my boyfriends kid(kid meaning his child). Not sure why I needed to clarify that, but you just made my day, laughter is the best medicine.

[@drewsiph18]

I got “disfellowshipped” for something similar, which is a half a step away from being kicked out completely. They told me I couldn’t actively participate in anything in the church. No answering questions in Sunday school, no praying to open or close Sunday school classes, no taking sacrament, no nothing. BUT don’t forget to give us 10% of everything you earn still. Uh huh… left that day and never went back.

[@Quackerstacker1973]

The church sent me a letter of excommunication when I was 20. I was never baptized or even set foot in a LDS church when I was growing up I only had one good friend because I wasn't LDS and neither was he so we couldn't play with the good LDS kid's in the neighborhood so we did our own thing Riding bike's and fishing on Sunday morning when they were forced to go to church

[@t-bone3657]

Something similar? Uh huh 🤔

[@drewsiph18]

@@t-bone3657 you want details or something you weirdo.

[@tomelder2358]

That is "church". Not God.

[@cryofpaine]

​@@tomelder2358 same difference. One imaginary construct created to control people by through worship of another imaginary construct.

[@iamimperfectionperfected4]

Lol they tried to tell my daughter that. I told her nope and I remember bishop doing stuff in back of a truck. My daughter busted out laughing.

[@h.r.9563]

Omg i wish I could tell my local youth something similar. 😂he kills the neighborhood squirrels😢 and you tell him about your porn 🙄

[@everaldodejesus4018]

So no one has a past?

[@camgalbraith936]

Oh ya my bishop asked how many times I did it which is insane I was 17 and the girl was 16 he asked who she was who her bishop was lol I lied and said she was a non member. I was like shunned from my ward and that’s when I realized I am done feeling guilty. And stopped going to church. It’s insane that bishops ask sexual questions to minors. So disgusting

[@rickmcdonald1557]

Glad you were one of the smart ones now go out and enjoy your life and best of luck to you~!!

[@SnailWhales]

So glad you didn’t expose the girl to that creepy bishop! I stopped going to bishop interviews and church as a teen because I didn’t think my personal life was any of their business.

[@bigtim94122]

as a ex Mormon I hear stories like her's and its mortifying the level of manipulation in the church is disgusting

[@palipali4264]

It is a blasphemous, pagan cult. What do you expect.

[@allanmason3201]

It's all about manipulation and men maintaining their positions of petty power over others by dominating them with an escalating hierarchy of social shaming. It's like Mormons believe that because a bishop learning that someone has had sex outside of marriage doesn't result in him getting together a mob of "saints" to stone the woman to death, then it's all cool, and DEFINITELY not cultish at all.

[@chlyri]

​@@jeffreyturner4252The church does nothing to discourage it.

[@ipman4715]

Utah prisons are full of Mormons, young Mormon girls get pregnant all of the time, and the small Moron towns, like Ephraim Utah are corrupt and Immoral they hide (pretty sure the ex chief of police was forced out of office). This from an ex Morman that found it's a false religion

[@SageTheRedFoxTherian]

i hate it how because of how people listen to these stories and think every church is manipulative like this, my church would never allow this. And im still lds, our church has kind people. mind you this is the same religion

[@esotericone9101]

I’m so so sorry. You deserved real support and understanding. May you heal. One love

[@JulieFranklin-hk9wz]

Parents ignorant😢

[@Warrior-J316]

Ironic that pornography addiction is one of the highest in LDS Utah.....hmmmm

[@belogical3961]

Isn't it better to actually go have sex then to look at pornography? Because that's just the fantasy, at least you're doing the real thing and learning actual real world stuff.

[@belogical3961]

@@firepower7654 If you actually could have sex with 1000's then you are God level.

[@belogical3961]

And why do they have to be strangers? I like to get to know people, and it's not all about looks.

[@belogical3961]

@@firepower7654 He said I was talking about prostitutes. 🙄 I do think that is healthier because you're actually living real life. It's' up to you what you want to do. Judge correctly, you can choose to keep on jerking it off in a fantasy or choose to experience the real thing. I choose the real thing.

[@belogical3961]

God has many partners

[@jillionairess]

I worked for a small company owned by a Mormon bishop and run by his family. They were the weirdest and most dysfunctional family I've ever encountered.

[@sabethdeclercq5057]

I'm so sorry that you had to go through this.

[@Emily-pi3wg]

👁️👄👁️ stares in Jewish. Like my rabbi once joked "if G-d really wanted you not to play with it, it would be on your back where you can never reach the itch" I'm sorry you were treated this way

[@Arizona_lilly]

Very true

[@Sara11614]

There are so many things wrong with that statement. My gracious.

[@Emily-pi3wg]

@@Sara11614 the Tanakh is absolutely full of sex. Song of songs is explicitly sexual, more specifically it is using erotic literature to express G-ds love for us his creation. You can easily read into the story of the Garden in Genesis/Bereshit a Drash that the tree of Knowledge is of knowing biblically 😉(it makes sense in Hebrew), the knowledge was forbidden when they were as children but Eve is taken aside and told that what was forbidden is good and she shares this SWEET FRUIT with Adam after being tempted by a SNAKE 🐍 (seeing the poorly disguised symbols?), After they KNOW they need to learn that life as a new family will involve work and childbirth hurts... There's no devil, no curse no sin, just people growing up and moving out to be their own family. There is no hell or devil in Judaism, Xians invented that all in their own. The Bible has a number of heroic prositutes, implied homosexuals and adulterers, and there isn't a single wedding, people are married when they move in together and have sex. G-d didn't demand purity, only your best... It is better to feed your neighbours hungry children than to follow all of the mitzvot, because we are here to repair the ills of the world and not to buy our way into grace in some popularity contest.

[@tatiana4050]

​​@@DoYouKnowGods ameen different from amen? And where in old testament does it say masturbation is bad? There is only story of Onan and that isn't really about masturbation.

[@Emily-pi3wg]

@@DoYouKnowGod you know Enoch isn't scripture right some Christians just went "wow that's some neat fan fiction, I'm keeping it"? And it is tanakh... It stands for Torah, nevi'im and ketuvim. People can have sex, there is no devil, there are no demons looking to pull them off the derech. There is only the yetzer harah, their own bad intention or greed or malice. G-d cannot forgive them for transgressions against their neighbour, they must seek forgiveness from their neighbour. Xians can be as high and mighty as they like in claiming to be the one truth, but Judaism teaches that you are responsible for your bad deeds and not a spiritual boogy man, we tell you that it's your job to make the world better for it's own sake and we don't threaten you with punishment in hell or bribe you with heaven, and we don't believe you have to be Jewish to be good or find your way to G-d. You can affect an Ashkenazic omayn all you like, it doesn't mean you begin to understand anything.

[@mubeam7668]

And then the boys don’t listen when you tell them no. Mine still went on a mission and I was the one who carried the guilt.

[@malihakarim1696]

That's just rape if sex didn't have consent

[@lindaolsen7089]

@@malihakarim1696 Or rank hypocrisy if there was consent.

[@vOtEbIdEnTosAvEdEmOcRaCy]

The insanity of responding more harshly to gay kids than abusers. I was always taught that the "sin next to murder" was being gay. So of course I did everything to be straight. When serving a mission and going to BYU-Idaho didn't work, I left.

[@dyllpickleproduces9588]

​@@vOtEbIdEnTosAvEdEmOcRaCyI'm sorry that you had to experience that. I can't image what that would be like. It's sad how harshly lgbtq people used to be treated. I'm glad that the church is now emphasizing that identifying as queer is not a sin. I don't understand how anyone would believe that something you can't control would be considered a sin.

[@a.walters123]

My parents pulled me out of high school because I was simply talking about sex with my friends. They overheard phone calls. Also, I was wearing tank tops and they panicked. I can’t blame them, they are a product of indoctrination and it came from a place of serious concern. They were very stressed and worried. Thanks to the church’s insane, unreasonable view on sexuality, I have never graduated high school, thus never went to college, and this has forever negatively impacted my life. That’s just one way this church has damaged me, I am now coming to underhand in my later years.

[@a.walters123]

@@notyouagain1428I am fully at peace with my parent’s hand in this, they had been convinced that I was a bad child who had gone astray, but no, as a stranger you cannot confidently state that the church has done more good for me than it has bad. Once I left, I was able to see all the psychological problems it had caused, and THEN I found peace when I dealt with that, through therapy.

[@susiepummill9391]

i’m so sorry. I’m sure they did what they thought was best out of love

[@violetvengance202]

I was raised the same way and it’s why I made it a point to break that cycle. My daughter was raised without religion. Best decision I ever made.

[@violetvengance202]

@@roberttramontana9875 😂🤣😂🤣

[@violetvengance202]

@@roberttramontana9875 crawl down off your soapbox bud. I don’t support ANY religion that was forced on people by threat of death and murder, slaughters innocence in the name of their god, and/or controls and profits off hate and fear. If that’s what you support 🤷‍♀️ I would just rather be a good person because that’s who I am, not ranting fire and brimstone trying to scare or convert others into believing something there is absolutely no proof of 🤷‍♀️

[@violetvengance202]

@@roberttramontana9875 If you’re so smart why are you spouting for people to read a book full of inaccuracies, misinterpretations, and one that was created and influenced by politics at the time? 🤔 You’re either a zealot or a troll..either way I’ve wasted enough time entertaining your delusions that had absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Have fun turning more people off Christianity so you can feel “special” I guess 🤷‍♀️

[@seventeendandelions]

@@roberttramontana9875 bro stfu Robert if people don’t want religion in their lives you don’t force it on them

[@violetvengance202]

@@shadowbanned5164 I hate to be the one to break this to you but Christians didn’t event “morality” nor are y’all particularly great at practicing what you preach. Then again the majority don’t even know your own book or the history behind your own text. By not indoctrinating my child she wasn’t robbed of valuable critical thinking skills, was taught research and fact checking even if the answer came from my own mouth, setting healthy boundaries, and didn’t push my own views and opinions on her because guess what..her life isn’t mine to live or control. If she had questions about religion I taught her how to find the answers she sought even if that meant taking her to a church,temple, etc. I wanted her to be a free thinker and for her to be a decent human not out of fear and trauma but because it’s the right thing to do. Teaching a child right from wrong isn’t something you need to be Christian for and as she’s a happy well adjusted adult and not one of these nut bags trolling the Internet trying to shove her religion down everyone’s throat just proves I made the right decision.

[@verdad1234]

Wait? This from elders who follow a church created by a veritable predator? Joe Smith? The guy who legitimized plural marriage to legitimize his predation? The dude who would be seen as an addict by today’s standards? Rich. Not suss AT all. Eff that Shizz

[@kvbstudios316]

I knew a Mormon man who complained to my husband that his wife wanted nothing to do with him physically. She had borne 5 children, the youngest was 5 when his next sibling was 23, and this dude hadn’t gotten so much as a kiss from his wife since conceiving that one. The combination of her lifelong being told sex is only to make babies and him perpetuating that same theology onto her children, plus him being an annoying jerk, made her have no further interest in her “marital duties” once she deemed them fulfilled, in my opinion.

[@tubytootoo]

If he was an annoying jerk, well, there’s the problem.

[@kvbstudios316]

@@tubytootoo that was my thought, too. Of course, I didn’t say that to him because, as a woman, he wouldn’t hear it anyway and I am not in the habit of wasting my breath.

[@mariabunch3541]

I am a Mormon and I can tell you that we do not believe that sex. It in marriage is only for procreation. It’s obviously a really important part of a healthy marriage.

[@damonm3]

This is abuse. And if it’s of a minor it’s extra inexcusable. Similar situation happened to me and the girl I dated when I first joined when I was 21. We met just prior to her turning 18. 8 months later and after much anxiety and trauma relating to emotional expression we started doing sex.. thankfully after the stress and emotional manipulation by this insane church teachings, we were able to actually let go and enjoy ourselves for a little while.. until she missed a period by a week or so. I can’t fully imagine the stress she felt. I told what I thought was my very good friend what was happening and of course he went and told the bishop. So stake president, her parents, me and whomever else was there had a nice talk. I reminded them that we are all adults and we’re able to contemplate reality and come to our own conclusions. I was only a member for a year or so and was quickly on my way out due to finding out one terrible thing after another. Well she was accepted to BYUI and was moving in a month or so. So she did. O, and she had her period later that night or the next morning. Perfect timing haha… she had so much shame surrounding any form of emotional expression. Discussions about normal sexual habits, but with men in their 40s and 50s when she was 12 or 13. She said she wasn’t able to look men in the eyes for years. They abuse almost every child in this way. There should be laws against this and see it as potencial grooming. And make it a sex offense. Enough is enough!!!

[@TylerGarey-pj6vj]

It is heartbreaking to hear some of these stories. I am a current member, but I have been blessed enough to have never been treated the way some of you guys have been treated by church leaders or by family members. Just over 7 months ago, I got my girlfriend (we had only been dating for 2 weeks) pregnant. I was in shambles. I felt such immense guilt, yet my family supported me every step of the way. My Bishop at the time never tried to impose guilt on me, but he loved me and told me that life was not over, that in fact things were all going to be ok. Since then, there have been many, many dark and difficult times (some of them self inflicted), but my wife and I are now married and anxiously awaiting our coming baby 🙏. I am so sorry for those of you who were put down by family members and leaders, that would have been so hard for me to be in yall's shoes.

[@ninersnerd5123]

I always thought it was weird the sin next to murder for them was sex and not RAPE.

[@loneassassin29]

So getting raped counts as a sin?

[@ninersnerd5123]

@@loneassassin29 no, raping is, but apparently it isn’t as high on the list as having sex outside of marriage. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@supahotfyre9687]

Getting raped isn’t sin you should carry but the person who committed the crime

[@immaculatepeter5529]

@@ninersnerd5123 exactly it’s because most of the people in power and power hungry psychopaths who use peoples fear of the unknown to their benefit. For example they will say they can Marry children because of god they can abuse/sexually abuse children and women because god and they can always “repent” and forgive themselves.

[@arowace498]

​@@KaladinDarkEyesbecause its stupid to be shamed for something that doesn't hurt anyone. Read the room.

[@claireholmes3114]

that is so sad. bishops are honestly not the best authority for things like this, and it’s really heartbreaking to hear how many really shame these kids and blow things out of proportion.

[@leeanngreen9830]

I was taught that murder was a more forgivable sin, than sex before marriage was way worse than a murderer.

[@deboraballes9044]

My parents were missionaries and very strict but also loving and had a great marriage that was visible to us, I feel I had a great example......to see these creepy adults browbeat this poor child gives me the shivers

[@Ellen-sg2tv]

I come from Utah and the games Mormons do in the name of God is nuts

[@brendamoon2660]

To me the most troubling thing is her use of the word "caved". That sounds like she said multiple nos but the boyfriend wouldn't take that answer

[@alexandrae8519]

And this heartbreaking treatment leads to so much added trauma 💔

[@sunshinelizard1]

It's remarkable that random men in their 30S are chosen to be "Bishops" and oversee the lives of teenagers as if they are highly trained counselors.

[@spikeybaby1735]

I always look at men of the cloth with suspicion

[@spikeybaby1735]

I always look at men of the cloth with suspicion

[@WellMomma]

Exactly!!!

[@gregblack4581]

Yes you should as people on the outside know what these men are about . They truly believe they are carved from a better lump of dung than women . They are above women .

[@grapechocolate5869]

Damn.. I'm sorry she had to go through that. It still pains her soul. It's all in her eyes

[@a.walters123]

Same thing happened to me. My parents pulled me out of school to shield me from bad influences because I was talking with friends about sex. Didn’t even have sex, just talking about it. That forever changed my life, never graduated high school, lived with little money, stayed in my home town my whole life. The bishop told them that they should pull me out, and they sent me to an expensive therapist who eventually lost his license for malpractice.

[@Nwladylaura369]

😮😢

[@joetaylor8687]

I think most people would agree that RAPE is pretty close to murder, but the "Mormon" theology has extrapolated and misinterpreted it. Wild stuff at this end of the spectrum now, since it's pretty clear that polygamy was conjured up to give some folks ("anointed" ones) some extra options for recreation and pleasure.

[@rebeccacampbell585]

When I read the scripture it seemed the grievous sin could be leaving the ministery he agreed to and causing the zoramites to not hear the gospel because of his behavior. I agree there are sexual sins that are terrible but thay would have to be something like r@pe like you said. Not consent like is described in the video.

[@jeremykeckler3267]

Mormonism was dreamed up by a madman. Yeah, sure he ran miles with those gold plates. Sure thing Joe.

[@joetaylor8687]

@@jeremykeckler3267 Yeah, and he had to also fight off multiple attackers who were mysteriously lying in wait along the way, too. Yep, grab that whole bundle of gold, run like a rabbit, fight off attackers . . . but somehow the attackers must have had other ideas after he got home with the plates, and decided to pursue other activities.

[@joetaylor8687]

@@josephcole38 So what SCRIPTURE equates pre-marital or extra-marital sex with murder? And Smith wrote passages like Helaman 8:26 after listening to hellfire-and-damnation revivalist ministers of his era. So after writing all this, how could he justify having a little more fun, variety, nookie for himself? Well, that necessitated conjuring up . . . POLYGAMY.

[@Lucifersfursona]

Rape is worse than murder. There are justifications to murder someone- rape has no justification. Ever.

[@57629589]

My first wife was raised LDS. She pushed hard to get me to join so we could be married. We went through the temple at St. George, lived the life etc. Later I joined the Air Force and went temporary duty in England for 90 days. I came home a day early and caught her in bed with a coworker. It was amazing how fast the church turned their backs to us. No sympathy, no nothing. I tossed her out after finding out her mom had known and supported her in this affair while I was gone.

[@scottneil9874]

Evil makes Mormonism go , but hypocrisy is a close second .

[@brentein]

I live in Utah as a non Mormon. I have experienced some similar insane experiences! I am sorry we both have gone through these experiences!

[@terramckay5636]

Wait, her mom thought it was ok? Sorry.

[@brotherenoch6838]

I’ve lived in Utah for almost four years (Hill AFB). Unfortunately, your story is all too common. Hang in there and run 🏃🏽‍♀️ from the LDS!

[@JCDofNYC]

It's so nice to see how religion improves family life. To quote Mr Hitchens, religion poisons everything.

[@thepixielife219]

I am not Mormom but my estranged father raised us in cult like Baptist(?) beliefs. Of course what the public saw and what happened behind closer doors....well. As a SA survivor, I can only say I am so very sorry and so very proud that you are trying to heal. And that you are trying to help others.

[@MPD_dogmom]

And thus women become traumatized when they do have sex with the shame and guilt. Sad reality for a lot of women.

[@lizc6393]

​@@j0ndav1s Way to make it about you, bro

[@immaculatepeter5529]

@@j0ndav1s how did you turn this around and make it about men?

[@chlyri]

​@@j0ndav1sIt's called whining. Statistically, a man is at least ten times more likely to get away with rape than he is to be falsely accused. Grow up.

[@jewelleryaddict]

So sorry you were told these things. Such guilt to lay on a person,that's awful, life is hard enough with out being put down for life choices we make.

[@serenaschnuelle293]

I was raised somewhat similarly and I’m pretty messed up. But at least I broke out of that prison of mental garbage. I hope she heals fully ❤

[@maygrantz4426]

TO CALL SOMEONE AND LABEL SOMEONE IS SHAMING AND MY HEART GOES WITH YOU.

[@ravenwiggins5700]

I grew up very poor. My dad was a devoted Mormon for many years. When I was 12 the bishop in Pueblo Colorado told my dad in meeting that he should let someone in the church adopt us children because being poor ment you were not a good enough Mormon parent. We have not been back to the church since then

[@markogrba1]

Religion is not disappearing fast enough.

[@rickmcdonald1557]

>>>AMEN

[@LTEK4NZ]

I remember when I was 16. Sitting outside bishops office while he was doing temple interviews with the young women. Door cracked being a witness against "accusations". Always weirded me out that you have teens bearing their souls to a middle aged man. Like. Your father is your priesthood leader. That's as far as it should go.

[@taylormade9971]

When I was outed my bishop sat me down alone in his office. Compared me to a pedophile. The next night I was kidnapped while sleeping. Had a bag thrown over my head. Was hand cuffed and thrown into a windowless van to a Mormon run behavior camp. This happened back in 1999

[@ChipArgyle]

Interestingly, no god has ever told a human anything.

[@pechaa]

As a parent of teens myself now, and as someone who has now lived in many parts of the U.S. and sometimes overseas, I finally understand that parents such as these are themselves naïve and ignorant in following the ridiculous advice of their backward church leaders.

[@nikki1400]

​​@@littleceasar9351hat's not what's being discussed here. A teenage girl having sex with her boyfriend is not an "addict" and keeping your kids dumb and afraid of sex only causes more stds and pregnancies. It's radical religious behavior that is the problem. Its about control, and they control through fear, and by making you believe your own body and *very* natural and normal desires are wrong and dirty. No one wants their kids to have sex, that's understandable, but they are going to at some point and the severe and oppressive teachings from the church don't stop anything. It only makes children resentful, uneducated, and in danger. These "teachings" arent coming from a place of care and concern, its about control. Its always about control.

[@nikki1400]

@@AnActualWoman looking out for your kid, and a cult brainwashing you and demonizing any and all sexual behavior (and by any i mean specifically if you are female) by means of getting you to be ashamed of your body and desires for the purpose or control, are VERY different things. This girl was raised in a cult, i do not believe for one second you genuinely wish someone had been "looking out for you" the way they did her. They called her a sex addict for having sex one time. No same person can listen to this story and this appropriate action was take. This wasnt looking out for anyone, this was a cult controlling what young women do with their bodies, how original. These same "elders" that seek oppressive control are continuously found guilty of sexual assault, it's all a ruse. while i can agree sex absolutely does have serious consequences, and that people need to look out for their kids, it will be a cold day in hell before anyone teaches my kid that their bodies are wrong and dirty. "Sex is bad and you're disgusting for wanting or doing it" doesnt help anyone, and only makes for diseased and knocked up teenagers. Teaching kids about sex in an age appropriate way doesnt make em go out and have sex immediately, and it arms them with knowledge which protects them. These people do not care about her or you, they care about control, and so they'd rather keep young people stupid and ashamed in an attempt control them. Kids can grow up to have healthy adult sex lives or they can grow up with the trauma and fear the chuch (even after theyve left) has instilled into them, forever messing up their ability to have healthy and enjoyable sex lives, but they WILL grow up. Screw this chuch. They're all evil, horrible people.

[@PInk77W1]

@@nikki1400 if u ain’t afraid of sex You’ve missed everything.

[@jenpatrick5633]

​@An actual woman Her parents and church weren't looking out for her by making her feel as if she was almost as evil and tainted as a murderer, and by forcing her into treatment for an addiction she didn't have. They did a great amount of psychological damage. No one is telling teens to recklessly have sex with whoever they want, but there's a middle ground between the emotional abuse of this woman's situation, and letting teens do whatever they want. There are ways to foster healthy boundaries in teens that don't involve shaming them in this way.

[@lillymurray8408]

@@AnActualWomanoh shut up. You’d rather be put into some sex addiction thing at age 12? No. All teens have sex. It’s normal. The hormones are raging. I have a child and I’m not married. I’ve been with her father for almost 7 years. Grow up, zip your lips and sit the f down when your 1920s beliefs. Your username couldn’t be further from the truth either.

[@bryancp87]

My bishop did the same to me . Scared the living hell out of me and I carried guilt for so many years. I didn’t even had sex . I am not putting my kids through this kind of pressure and mentality

[@345kobi]

I am very happy to believe that you are mostly recovered from the abuse you received. Your sharing this with others is evidence that you are dealing with well. My respect is with you.

[@nataliefluckiger6568]

This is so sad. I am LDS, and there are MANY people who are also LDS who are so obsessed with being “perfect” that they are brainwashed in a sense. But really, i think they just dont think for themselves or stand up for how they feel. What happened to this woman is awful, and there are bad people in every religion who can twist and warp what is ACTUALLY being taught. I believe this woman should not have been treated like a murderer, and that she should have been given love and compassion, but also told that sex is special, and you should only have sex when you are married, and only have sex with the person you’re married to. Its about commitment and trust, and sex is a wonderful thing. Sex should be respected for what it is, it is so special to share that level of trust, love, and intimacy with somebody. But she should not have been treated that way. Heartbreaking treatment of a little kid who didnt know any better. My heart goes out to you❤

[@alapahi]

"Twist and warp"? Yeah, nope. Her treatment was exactly what the cult always intended, I'm sorry you are similarly brainwashed, despite thinking you are more free. Despite the abuse she'll likely end up in a better place than you, not beholden to the sickening rants of batshit men controlling women.

[@whitelion1111]

I didn't know that LDS stands for latter-day saints, and now I just realized my car tag has LDS, interesting

[@KB-bb2wt]

Don’t think for themselves? Why would they “when the thinking has been done for them”? Tisk tisk. Bring Mormon you should know this tired old phrase already because of how often leadership and teachers use it in Sunday School.

[@alapahi]

@@longlifeprinters9 jesus doesn't exist. Grow up.

[@mathewmusic4919]

Old lds teaching in there own app. Says it's OK to have sex outside of marriage as long as you don't tell anybody. Look it up. Click the blue foot note numbers. I believe its foot note 42 in a the polygamy papers

[@KylaFuller]

It's crazy how unbalanced the accountability is here.

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

I’m LDS and I can tell you pride and idolatry is worse than sexual immorality

[@gowanderlustwithme]

sin is sin. But I get what you’re saying. Not worshiping the true God is heretical and a conscious decision. Sexual immorality can just happen out of weakness and lack of impulse control.

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

@@gowanderlustwithme Luke 12:47

[@DF-fo9bh]

@@gowanderlustwithmesin is not all the same some mortal some venial

[@samanthaannfuchsgruber]

As a Christian, this makes me sad. No one ever should have to go through this. ♥️ I hope she has found freedom and healing after religious trauma.

[@patrickarchbald8734]

There's no hate like Christian love.

[@Maltcandyxp]

Bruh Mormonism is a cult, their 'Christian love' is real warped. Their Mormon books are written so twisted, the first time I heard they both read that Mormon book and the standard bible I know others read, I was baffled. Because it's 2 books that contradicts each other in so many teachings lol

[@taraduckett5917]

This isn’t Christianity…. It is Mormon doctrine and abuse… please don’t confuse the two.

[@edgarallanhoe8838]

Mormon*

[@lukeflinchum2038]

Mormons consider themselves Christians but are not widely accepted by the rest of us Christians.

[@kelliepool4298]

Mormons aren't Christians.

[@deborahoshea2507]

Imagine a world with NO religions.

[@christinebutler7630]

It would still have human beings in it. And humans suck.

[@caesaraltamiranor.7789]

God did not create any religion, JESUS SAID I am the way, the truth and the life, nobody comes to the Father except through me, People must repent and accept Jesus in their hearts, while there is time, BECAUSE JESUS IS COMING SOON, THE END IS NEAR, RUN TO JESÚS BECAUSE SOON IT WILL BE TOO LATE! ❤️ 🙌 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

[@jackieh4582]

Religion is a belief system like politics; it’s huMANS who make the order disordered.

[@mimirose71]

​@@jackieh4582 exactly!!

[@jamespetrey5814]

It is better to live your life and die as if there is a God As opposed to living your life as though there is no God and dying to find out you're wrong...

[@cynthiahill3426]

So sorry u had to go through this snd congratulations youve overcome

[@jordanbailey9852]

Thank you for sharing a sensitive experience.

[@tallgirl2436]

Member of the Mormon church here, that’s absolutely terrible. I hope she recovers from this, that’s super traumatic. In my family (we are very religious) we talk about the ways we should not misuse our religion. We’ve talked about the scripture she’s referencing and how hormones are normal and that sex is nowhere close to murder. I’m grateful for the amazing family and religious values I have, but watching people who have been mistreated by them breaks my heart. I hope one day the Church will continue to improve in the teaching of its doctrine.

[@lorinapetranova2607]

Her testimony causes me much sadness. Tell me a statement like that isn't indicative of an organization that has serious human rights issues. Many blessings for a more compassionate society. Love isn't an ugly thing.

[@ashleygarcia8486]

My dad told me when I was 11 that if I didn't put out for my husband whenever he wanted it regardless of my own feelings if he raped me or cheated on me it was my fault for not doing my duty as a woman and a wife. To this day I still have incredible fear that if I don't sleep with my husband even if I'm not feeling good or whatever, that he'll sleep with someone else. My dad is a jahovahs witness.

[@andromedaspark2241]

That's such a gross thing to say to an 11 year old girl. I'm sorry that happened to you

[@tyhill9714]

Your dad is trash for telling you that at all little alone at 11 years of age.

[@Camishappy]

That’s disgusting I’m so sorry my family raised me in the JW cult too and I left mentally at 16 but forced to continue preaching and going to meetings till I was 19 they are really creepy because they are so brainwashed into believing they are a loving “religion” when in fact all their rules are hateful

[@ashleygarcia8486]

@@Camishappy yes definitely. Thankfully I only lived with him for a short time but it was traumatic none the less

[@ashleygarcia8486]

@@albertq2323 you don't say that to an 11 year old child. And a grown man can communicate his needs. There's never an excuse to cheat. I guess I can go cheat to in that case right?

[@joclynsmethod4673]

Grew up Mormon. It was horrible. My Bishop used to have us meet in his office to discuss my “sins”. I never told him anything. Sicko

[@anarchisttutor7423]

No longer LDS, but I still believe people don't take sex seriously enough. If you're responsible with your actions, I don't oppose them. When you deceive, or risk or take others' lives, etc., I have a big problem with that.

[@chlyri]

This is the right attitude to have. If you are being responsible, then go for it. That's what life's about. Anyone who isn't being responsible has to deal with the consequences, be it STDs or a pregnancy (which means paying for an abortion or paying to carry out the pregnancy, and both parties need to contribute to that assuming both were knowing and willing participants).

[@SparkyWaxAll]

...and they get to enforce this bullshit while being tax exempt!

[@kensmechanicalaffair]

That's because it's a cult.

[@ClericofAneron]

Given you brought it up, which angers you more?

[@tammybrown1433]

Tax exempt?

[@NottaTroll27]

With a HUGE bank balance!

[@Alma-wl9bo]

As an lds member I could say that not to have sex before marriage allows you to think with your head who are you gonna share your body and mind and your life with and not just to have fun or let other people to have fun with u. And church doesn't say that having s3x is bad, actually is part of life but as a married couple.

[@justrelax129]

I’ve never heard anything like that in the church. I’ve heard of people doing that and then repenting but never anything that extreme. Genuinely everyone I’ve met at church is a sinner and we are all well aware of that. This sounds like the result of one family taking things too far. It’s just the same as a ‘regular’ family sending their kid off to military school. Not every family is like this.

[@Chadass80]

Cults be crazy. I left 27 years ago, and it amazes me that anyone is still involved with that one.

[@leahmerchant1475]

But they didn't send the boyfriend into exile and therapy, just you?

[@arareanddifferenttune3130]

Seriously 😒

[@debbieherrera1605]

Yah they sent him on a mission.

[@wolfsongmoondancer1428]

​@@debbieherrera1605 That will teach him?! 🙄

[@gregbailey45]

He was merely tempted...

[@HashtagTheKate]

It amazes me that the church’s answer to the power of creation/termination is shame based abstinence programming instead of educating people about birth control.

[@ThatOneGirlThatPlays]

That’s horrible that they did that to you. You’re not an addict or a murderer for caving in to what someone else pressured you into.

[@398Vampire]

I had so many things happen along the way. I grew up in Utah and in this religion. You don’t see it til you see it. Women are treated like less. We are disposable. I know god loves all of his children the same and he would never want anyone to feel like they are disposable ❤️. I hope you have found happiness ❤️

[@3arthIsGhetto]

Hi! I got out in time thankfully. I'm glad you did too! 💜

[@cherihendrix3076]

The Utah Mormon Culture is the problem not the teachings of the church. I grew up in Colorado and raised my kids in Iowa. A very different experience to what my DIL experienced.

[@nicwelch]

@@davidmcphail7496It’s not being remembered wrong friend. The LDS church produces monsters of men.

[@TheGenerationX894]

People, stay away from organized cults ( religion). Interpret and live by whatever book you believe in without all the brainwashing.

[@mmj9395]

It's tough being in a cult and not realizing you're in one. My heart breaks for all Mormons.

[@wesleywashington1251]

Religious beliefs hold people back from learning new things

[@epbrown01]

This reminds me of the Simpsons where you find out Ned Flanders is in Alcoholics Anonymous because he had one drink.

[@strangeinamoststrangeland4200]

"one drink is too much and a thousand drinks are mot enough. " comes to mind. Seriously though her story is yet another example of why i dislike religion

[@conniehopkins1499]

You only need to drink 2 times 🍸 a month to be considered an alcoholic so says instructor of my daughters court ordered underage drinking class where parents went to the class with the minor lol

[@theslitherysylvie4010]

I dated a mormon guy in high school and he was one of the worst human beings I've ever known. He had 2 kids while in high school, and was married at 17 to a 15 year old. After he got divorced at 19 after his kids were taken by CPS, he started dating me, and tried to convince me to marry him and have a baby. I am so lucky that I got rid of him. Every mormon man I have ever met was hyper s3xual, racist, and a dead beat dad.

[@bustindustin959]

Hmm not my experience with mormons. I've been around them here in California quite a bit. Typically nice people I like as neighbors.

[@saltytexasranger6301]

Yeah, this another great reason to break from that narcissistic cult. I am finally at peace in my life...

[@rexpope980]

Really sad but powerful message.

[@lisawoodruff1185]

I'm so sorry you were treated this way. It was handled completely inappropriately. I'm an active member of the LDS faith and I'm appalled that your parents and leaders did/said any of that. That's not what Jesus would have done. I promise, that's not how it is supposed to go in the church. I'm so sorry.

[@KB-bb2wt]

That’s kind of you to say that to her. But unfortunately that’s exactly how it goes in that organization. And according to an actual bishop, the verbiage they use when “counseling” transgressive adolescents is by the book. So she heard exactly what they are told to say to someone in her position. You may be one of the few members who feels this is wrong, and I agree, but saying it was an aberration of how it was supposed to have gone is also wrong.

[@stenbiller99]

Ex Mormon here….. man, this church has caused a lot of damage. I ripped out of the family and church before being pushed out the door into a mission. I still have a very distant relationship with my dad. When it doesn’t work out it rips families apart.

[@atheismisamentaldisorder1839]

All cults are like that.

[@alapahi]

These cult parents are such abusers.

[@sunshinelizard1]

They're doing what they think is right because they were raised that way too.

[@alapahi]

@@sunshinelizard1 being a fucking moron is not a defence to child abuse. When you have all the access to information that is provided in the world, and all access to the short and ridiculous history of your cult, and you still choose to believe the rantings of a pedophilic sociopath who for some reason, despite taking his words directly from God, couldn't get the same words twice? Mormonism is just an even more batshit cult than baseline Christianity. I'm sure plenty of sexpest fathers talked themselves into thinking they were doing the best by their kids as well. No excuse.

[@RuminatingRaptor]

@@sunshinelizard1 And? It’s still abuse.

[@chelseawatson7747]

​@@RuminatingRaptor Yes I agree it is abuse.

[@miighankurt1930]

Les Miserables

[@bowman4275]

Reminds me of the days when heresy was a crime punishable by death. It has the same medieval stench of cruelty.

[@paulnejtek6588]

Don't know who this young lady is, but sounds like she was smart enough to see the light

[@joetaylor8687]

Moroni Chapter 9 discusses rape and murder, and I think that may have been the beginning of equating anything involving sex to be in the same category as homicide.

[@jomc20]

Imagine how many people have been messed up by religion!

[@joetaylor8687]

@@jomc20 Unfortunately, quite a few

[@gail7998]

​@@ronberon9849 what is Moroni 9? A ward?

[@jomc20]

@@ronberon9849 Secularism is not a religion. Just read the comments here to see how damaging religion is, especially cults such as mormonism. It was invented by a convicted conman to gain access to young women wealth and power. How anybody is taken in by it is a mystery to me.

[@jomc20]

@@joetaylor8687 Please don't trot out the usual argument about Hitler and Stalin! Hitler was Catholic and all German soldiers had "God with Us" on their belt buckles. The Catholic Church supported him, too. Staying studied for the priesthood as a young man. Also, no war was ever fought in the name of secularism or atheism, unlike religion, which was spread by the sword and used as an excuse to kill countless millions over the centuries.

[@jennifermcculloch5324]

Only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the holy spirit. Everything else is forgivable. Even s3x as a teenager

[@stampandscrap7494]

Really. So you can rape a child and that's forgivable, but call God an arse and that's it. Religion is a con.

[@shawnadams1460]

And this is why I HATE all organized religion. I often wonder how far we as a civilization would be if we never invented it.

[@seanharracksingh279]

I am so sorry you had to experience this. 😔

[@MrStaybrown]

Controlling with fear. Zoiks. Scary, considering they're usually smiling all the time.

[@designingirl]

Toxic positivity also comes with the cult behavior, just FYI.

[@S-tank_]

Sadly this is all religions...but religious people can only see the flaws in other religions, not their own. The ancient Mayans that sacrificed humans to their God would have thought Christians were barbaric for thinking that circumcising little babies is somehow a good thing. Christians think that African cultures that eat the foreskin are barbaric. When in reality it's religion itself that's barbaric.

[@glendannesquyres2053]

I'm sorry you went through that experience. Hopefully, you are now enjoying a positive life.

[@valeriew364]

May God bless you .🙏🏽

[@Frantic618]

I worked for a Mormon for 12 years. Many of his fellow Mormons came in as clients. Nearly every Mormon girl that came in there was pregnant when she got married. I thought it was promoted by their Church.

[@kookycoolauntkaryn5884]

Bless this woman 💔

[@jenniferb6196]

Omg this poor girl 💔 I hope she’s getting help. How could her parents believe that

[@designingirl]

Uh, that happens when you're in a cult.

[@acreymundo]

This is heartbreaking.

[@ewwitsryd3r]

was told one time during a sunday school lesson about this concert that was on a sunday where a gunman opened fire and people ended up being killed, they then explained to us children that if they hadn’t disobeyed the lord and gone out on a sunday that maybe they would still be alive. yea…super messed up. im also gay and spent most of my childhood thinking that i was a horrible person, there’s no hate like christian “love” :/

[@kasualbeauty309]

Yeah, I never had that happen with my Bishop when I got pregnant long before I got married, nobody ever made me feel like a sex addict. You have to remember that each person is their own person with their own personal beliefs and that does not necessarily represent the church as a whole.

[@HighPhilosophy]

You are correct but much like the catholics, how many grains of sand make a heap?

[@dragondust6761]

Thank you! I think it's hard for people to understand that people aren't perfect but God is and ultimately its his opinion that is important.

[@jadegreen3138]

This breaks my heart 😔 I am so appalled by the way these high control religious groups treat their followers especially young people. I grew up in one as well, and I definitely can relate to being made to feel bad and like something was wrong with me for having any interest in sex. At 18-19 my mom tried to make me feel like there was something wrong with me and and when I finally moved out and left the religion at 23 and started dating someone who wasn't in the religion she insisted that I only left to have sex 🤷🏾‍♀️🤦🏾‍♀️

[@jadegreen3138]

@@masternamer9399 No I didn't have to learn the hard way. I was always a very responsible person and still am. I'm still with the same guy I was with 5 years ago when I left. Never been pregnant never had an abortion. We're not married because neither one of us are in a hurry and don't necessarily believe you have to get married if you don't want to. My mom in particular was just very controlling and strict and religion didn't help it just made things worse. Not saying that every religion is like that but I definitely have no desire to be a part of one because of my experience. I rather just have a spiritual relationship with God, or whatever is out there. I stay very open-minded, and if I ever have kids I will not force my beliefs or a way of thinking on them the way a lot of parents do today. There's nothing wrong with teaching your kids what your beliefs are but when they become of age if they want to do something else that's their decision and their parents should respect that.

[@fendermon]

My Baptist church was fond of the scripture stating you should gouge your eyes out if you look at a woman with lust. "Better to lose your eyes than burn in hell". How I made it into adulthood with my eyes intact I'll never know. As a young teen I actually believed them.

[@karynlabrum]

LDS here. If anyone is tearing apart their family relationships because of perceived sins then they are not following the doctrine of Christ. Sin is part of our experience here. We need to experience it and repent and then try to do better. But above all we should love our families (especially children) unconditionally. These parents severing connections to their children will regret it. It’s the opposite of the will of God.

[@chlyri]

It's the doctrine according to your prophets and apostles, past and present. Still want to say the church is true?