The Super 9s: Great for Self-Defense!

[@JR15A2]

The 9x25 Dillon is another neat cartridge I consider a "Super 9".

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I mentioned it in my 1911 Calibers video.

[@fritzd2116]

I thought of the 9x25 Dillon also?

[@bigandy2109]

I wish the 357SIG would catch on like the 10MM is currently doing

[@LibertysetsquareJack]

Yes. It is kinda cringe how sexy 10mm Auto is held to be right now. Leaving aside the fact that we already went through this before (or, more specifically, our fathers went through it, if not grandfathers), in the '80s and early '90s 10mm craze, only for it to all wane away; the elephant in the room is that 357 Sig is arguably a better cartridge anyway. More to the point, 357 Sig addresses the same performance targets as 10mm Auto, while having several mechanical advantages to boot.

[@jimmywilliams7876]

the reason I got a 10mm instead of 357 Sig for a 'hotter' handgun was reloading. To Dick's point about popularity of necked pistol rounds, straight wall are just easier to load. 10 mm is cheaper because of bullet availability due to the 40 s&w, and outperforms all the above. 357 Sig offers at best the same and more often less than a 10mm with far greater cost and effort with bullets, whether handloading or store-bought.

[@LibertysetsquareJack]

@@jimmywilliams7876 One of the other things holding 357 Sig back it seems are the pistols themselves not being properly suited: 357 Sig is reported to function just fine in Sig pistols, but people using the catridge in other pistols, namely Glock, have reported high tendency for the bullet to "jump back" in the case. One could argue that this is a cyclical issue: if 357 Sig was in greater demand/portrayed as more sexy, then manufacturers would probably have addressed that issue effectively; at the same time, the lack of manufacturing attention on this aspect is definitely not going to help make the catridge more popular. So kind of a chicken-or-the-egg thing.

[@jimmywilliams7876]

that extra pressure crammed into a frame made for 9mm / 40 S&W pressure would do that. the alternative is of course 1911 frames, but then 10mm and 45 have that covered, even 38 super. Besides Sig, who would see enough market to create a new frame? This is kinda like the 30 super carry: good on paper, but doesn't create enough "wow' to warrant the investment. If I was just starting, I would be interested in the 30 SC. But it does not bring enough to the table for me to get rid of half a dozen pistols and one revolver in 9mm and start over with a Shield. @@LibertysetsquareJack

[@LibertysetsquareJack]

@@jimmywilliams7876 Yep. Good on paper doesn't, by many means, necessarily translate to logistically or economically viable.

[@Swampytheroot]

I carried 357Sig for 20 years in a Glock Gen2 31. My favorite Glock by far. I also have a Sig P229 custom in 357. The round is often sold short. That's unfortunate. Last Fall I found a place in New England selling 357 Sig 125 and 147 Gold Dots for $300 a case of 1000. I bought enough to fill a minivan. It's that good.

[@jasonashley4579]

I'm 43 years old and grew up in the River Quay of Kansas City, gangland, when I was a kid people referred to the .357 magnum as the king of the street, today I carry a model 66 smith stoked with 125 grain magnum hollow points and a couple speed loaders of the same ammo, I saw what a .356 magnum can do first hand when I was 10, it was over in one shot.

[@Sniperfox1]

We (a state agency in NC) carried SigPro pistols in 357 and swapped over to Glock 31 pistols in 357 Sig. We loved the flat trajectory and power but availability and cost of the ammo forced a change to 9mm. What a shame.

[@rustypugh123]

Sir, I enjoy watching your videos. I find them very informative. You are one of VERY few people on KZbin that I trust. I got weary of all the gun store commandos a long time ago. I find your experience and knowledge very helpful.

[@stevenessary7986]

I agree with you. I trust a person with real life experience.

[@Mrelindio42]

I will just add a "Me too!" to your comment.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I appreciate that, than you.

[@corbettcharpentier2123]

These videos are some of the best content I've ever seen. Nearly dying to see the 10mm installment.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Please don't die, it will post in a week.

[@callaseter4811]

😂👍🏻🙏✝️💕

[@callaseter4811]

😂👍🏻🙏✝️💕

[@FlapjackKalanchoe]

I am reading Jim Cirillo’s “Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights” and he had a lot of similar opinions as you do from his experiences in the NYPD Stakeout Squad and almost 2 dozen shoot outs. He had some wild experiments with handloading and testing his bullet designs on real suspects

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Jim Cirillo was one of the giants of police use of deadly force training.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

I have Jim’s book…. Autographed by the man himself. 😊

[@FlapjackKalanchoe]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb do you have any other good book recommendations? Being a millennial, unless you dig real deep you aren’t going to know about the greats who were once common knowledge. Love your content!

[@boostimalaka1]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jbIt’s a shame he died in a car accident. He was great at telling his stories. The one with the two bad guys walking in talking jive getting shot dead by his Smith and Wesson Model 10. Jim did say he was impressed by the M-1 Carbine using 110 grain Softpoint ammunition. He did go to the Morgue to see the results from the ammunition he used. The .38 Special Federal HST has that Wadcutter effect.

[@daleweller5193]

I believe that most police can’t handle the recoil of the 357 sig.

[@roykiefer7713]

Excellent video, Dick, THANK YOU. Many years ago I purchased an Sig P226 chambered in .357 Sig. It’s a great autoloader, but I converted it to .40 S&W simply by purchasing a Bar-Sto barrel. My rationale was simple: (a) both cartridges more than met my needs, but (b) .40 ammunition was - and is - far more available, in a far greater variety of loadings, and it was appreciably less expensive. To this day - that firearm is on my belt as I type this comment - the P226 loaded with a top-tier 180 grain ammunition is my frequent nightstand and EDC combination.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Having the ability to adapt is a cool feature in a pistol.

[@chrismayo4902]

Always appreciated the versatility of the .40 caliber firearms being able to adapt to .357 sig’ 9mm or .40 with a barrel and recoil spring most times

[@FoulPet]

Supposedly, there's a 9mm conversion capability also. That's 3 calibers for one pistol. I'm a 357/40 fan. Shame it being abandoned.

[@rexhinlo3398]

The later barrels (Bar-Sto, etc.) on the .38 Super headspaced on the case mouth. Later barrels also had the option for a fully-supported feed ramp. Bar-Sto barrels with the right ammo in .38 Super are accurate barrels. Very good info on the .38 Super, which I feel, is an underrated caliber.

[@NBT31]

357 Sig is an impressive round when loaded with light weight solid copper rounds. The 9x25 Dillon is the most impressive cartridge for its size. 125 gr bullets will do about 1700 out of a 6” barrel and 2400 fps with 68gr Xtreme Defenders. This would be an outstanding PDW cartridge.

[@kevinrichardson8859]

357sig is an impressive caliber with any grain weight!!

[@robertmakowski7808]

Thank you... Have carried a Colt Commander in .38 Super daily since 1980... Underwood Xtreme Defender 90 grain at 1560 fps if the current carry round... If I was back in LE I would want anything in .357 SIG...just because there are no under-powered round..

[@GmanGSW]

I will never forget the day my parents dropped me off a 50rd box of .357 Sig. My parents got a free box with something they'd bought at a hardware store. I owned 4 .38/.357 magnums and my Dad thought how small, but powerful and, again, got for free! I still have 'em...

[@davidqualls1766]

Gman, you've gotta get a gun to fire those now very costly rounds! Y'all will never regret it!

[@GmanGSW]

@@davidqualls1766 Probably so and valid point. I've debated on/off and, literally, still have that 50 round box. I'd been veering .40 Cal with my 9mms and other pistol chamberings. Rarely seeing .357 Sigs, I thought to keep the .357 Sigs for a time I want to shoot 'em in someone else's firearm or as "trade" for other ammo, if needed. I know the cost and .357 Sig is not a slouch, ballistically speaking. Have a good weekend!✌

[@johnlacasse8893]

I like the 357 SIG... But never embraced it, because I loved the 40 S&W, which I find to be ballistically similar to the 357 magnum... At least enough for me. I like the capacity of the 40, and it has pretty fair power, but my heart is still 45 ACP...

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

It's OK to like them all.

[@robertmakowski7808]

Have a G40 with a .357 SIG LoneWolf barrel...it feeds 100% in the 10mm magazines. Also have a G23 and G35 with SIG barrels...really smokin'....and laser accurate.

[@chrisblake1918]

I had, and wish I still did, a Tanfoglio Witness in 38 Super. It loved the *9x23.

[@stevenessary7986]

Thanks for the great info. Tennessee State Troopers did and I think still do carry 357 Sig caliber Glocks. I have always favored 45 acp and 357 mag, and carried both as a LEO, but I am interested in 357 Sig.

[@johncoleman2495]

I promise you won't be disappointed

[@davidqualls1766]

Sorry Steve, THP have switched to a Glock G45 in 9x19. Sad. Reverting to a much weaker round is doing no one any favors. Instead of possibly stopping with a minimum of harm with less rounds now multiple rounds might well be required.

[@robertshay9951]

Enjoy these videos. 357sig barrel for a 4 " 40 S&W shield for CC work, On the list. As an RSO, I get a chance to check out things. 2 different times I've spoken to Air Marshall's. 1 retired and 1 active, both said the ONLY round they know would stop a threat quick,fast, and in a hurry. I found the recoil very manageable and accuracy superb. My 2 cents. But people who carry them are very loyal to that round. Wonder what some of the old revolver officers would think of the 357sig round. 38 super never shot. But the 9x23, 9x25 Dillion I've been hearing about around the club. 5" 1911 in 9x23 for whitetails.

[@DRay-or4tc]

You brought back some memories discussing the Super. I ran HS7/Win. 571 in my USPSA loads to make “Major Power Factor”. In mid ‘80s we had Ramped Barrels which helped. We had a buddy in KC that worked at Hodgden. He pressure tested my Competition rounds and told me they were “Proof Loads”. The Good Ole Days.

[@reachvictoria3386]

Very interesting video. I have never heard anyone compare either 38 Super or 357 Sig so favorably to the 357 magnum. Buffalo Bore has a 357 magnum 125 gr jhp they rate at right around 1600 fps and 180 gr loads at right around 1400. These are all very powerful rounds and sounds like they’re all (the super 9s and the magnum) potential winners!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I'm not putting down Buffalo Bore and a couple other "high intensity" ammo companies, but I've loaded for many years and had the opportunity to have some of my stuff pressure tested and I don't know how they get some of their velocities without exceeding SAMMI specs. One brand in particular bulged 10mm cases so badly in my Colt Delta Elite that I threw away the remaining rounds in that box. We don't need those kind of pressures and I have to wonder how many new pistols they buy folks when something gives with one of their loads.

[@reachvictoria3386]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I’ve read some reviews saying the same. All are excellent cartridges within SAAMI specs, so maybe BB should label these heavy loads +p at least.

[@brucevaughn2886]

@@reachvictoria3386. If these or other loads are within SAAMI standards then the BB ammunition should not be marked as +P since it is not beyond the standard.

[@highxj]

Great video. I currently have three 38 Supers, all Dan Wesson's and two of which are Commander length with one being an Officers sized Dan Wesson ECO with a Bar-Sto barrel. All use full ramp barrels with flat bottom firing pin stops and 23-25 lb mainsprings. I normally load to 1450-ish fps with 124's and am really liking Vihtavuori 3N38 powder. Also just started working with the 9x23 in a GI lightweight Commander, and a 5" Dan Wesson 9mm rechambered to 9x23. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of the "Super 9's". In my opinion, the 357 Sig is a handloaders nightmare and I've abandoned it long ago. Bullet setback is difficult to control with the short neck, and it's a PITA in general.

[@michaelestrada2772]

YES! I was hoping you’d do one on the 10!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Coming up shortly.

[@BBDragon66]

357 sig is my choice in my SIG P226 or P320C. I have found it to be very consistent in standard loadings between different ammo manufacturers also. I have the 40 S&W barrels for them when I want to shoot cheaper ammo at the range. Thanks for this series! I have been really enjoying your videos and look forward to the 10mm video to come as it is perhaps my favorite cartridge due to my first handgun purchase. That being the Colt Delta Elite when they first released them. Sadly I no longer have it and the Springfield TRP Operator I have in 10mm is a bit cumbersome to EDC regularly (although it is awesome). You might reignite my 10mm passion and entice me to pick up a new pistol in that caliber that would be easier to carry.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I would never want to be accused of causing someone to buy a new gun ...

[@BBDragon66]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb 🤣🤣It would really just be an excuse. I kinda wanted another 10mm anyway. Just can't decide which one.

[@ultrafuel2559]

Great video. I think 357 Sig is currently THE best carry round for self defense against people, because of the power of the round and the size of the available guns. My daily carry is a Sig P224 in 357 Sig. My P226 is also converted to 357 Sig. I carry three grizzly 90 gr JHPs (1900fps) or 50 gr Liberty Defense (2300 fps) on top of 65gr Underwood Extreme Defenders. I never chronographed the Liberty or Grizzly ammo, but I chronographed the 65 gr Extreme Defender 357 Sig out of my Sig P224 with a 3.5 inch barrel at 2124 fps and out of my P226 at over 2200 fps. Up until about this time last year I could still buy the PPU 357 Sig for less than $30 for a 50 round box. PPU rated their 125 grain 357 Sig at 1542 fps--that is smoking! I never clocked that round, but based on the way it whacks my hand it is hot. It is also a flame thrower. There is zero information on the effectiveness of the really light fast rounds, but based on gelatin tests, I'm betting the smaller high velocity rounds will have a rifle-like hydro-static shock effect. One thing I am sure of, I've seen numerous videos of guys exchanging hits with what I assume are 9mm pistols and it turns out to be like a knife fight, where the loser dies on the spot and the winner dies at the hospital, so 9mm won't cut it. I just wish manufacturers would build a 10mm on it's own platform instead of building them off their 45ACPs so they're not so thick. I have an FN FNX 45 converted to 460 Rowland as my "outdoors" carry, but I feel my P224 with the PPU rounds or Extreme Penetrators would be adequate for anything in Colorado.

[@krashdude1]

Excellent video...Glock 22 with a Storm Lake 357 Sig barrel swap was super easy and not expensive. Great accuracy. No need to get different magazines...the .40 mags work perfectly as well as the recoil spring/guide rod. Also the felt recoil is actually less in the exact same gun with 357 Sig ammo. Less side to side torquing. 357 Sig FMJ can penetrate some very tough barriers. My 2 cents.

[@mtkoslowski]

Interesting comment. I’ve got a Glock 27 in 40 S&W. Are you aware of anyone who makes a .357 Sig barrel that will interchange with it? I’m a fan of .357 Sig and do have a Springfield XD in it but for conceal ability pov would like to use the G27. Thank you.

[@jason_m_schmidt622]

Shame that Storm Lake went out of business. Their barrel I use for 45 Super is top notch.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I like the "Super 9's", too.

[@kevinrichardson8859]

​@ibnewton8951 contact glock and order a Glock 33 barrel...they will need your serial number and make sure the Gen you have is compatible...or storm lake or alpha wolf also make barrels but nothing better than a factory Glock 33 barrel

[@LibertysetsquareJack]

Sweet.

[@BoomerMutt55]

Thanks, fun to watch and I learned stuff. I’d settled on 357Sig or 45, depending. An old friend, definitely appreciated the 1911, preferred his 9X23s. The powder information was also good to hear. I’m enjoying your videos; your knowledge going back before the internet, and your perspectives, are part of this. Best….

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks!

[@Rampant_Colt]

I thought I read that the 1911 was originally chambered in .38 ACP; then after the "Philippine Insurrection", the army/military requirements for a new semiautomatic pistol was to be chambered in .45 to replicate the ballistics of the .45 Colt cartridge, due to the inadequate stopping power of the .38 Colt revolvers they were issued at the time. Correct me if I am wrong

[@hjs1725]

The 356TSW should also be included in this group. USPSA rule changes and S&W mis-marketing left it stillborn.

[@The_Conspiracy_Analyst]

What about 9x25mm Mauser? The officials at Mauser are said they wanted the cartridge to match the ballistics of .357 magnum, that was their intention. It's kind of a dead cartridge now, but worth noting for historical reasons. There's also 9mm winchester magnum (9x29). Also kinda dead, but it was available as a chambering for the notorious AMT Automag III pistol (based on the 1911 platform).

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I stuck to cartridges where both weapons and ammunition are readily available. If you want to carry a 9x25 Broomhandle Mauser you can find one on Gun Broker ... good luck finding the ammo.

[@stevenrush9862]

Thank you for your extensive research and trials . This is information that is not available anywhere.

[@johnclark5695]

The Smith & Wesson 3566 chambered in the .356 TSW had a lot of potential, but was supplanted by the .357 Sig.. In a 1911 pattern gun you can achieve 1400+ fps with a 124/125gr bullet in 9mm Major, As a point of interest the 9x19, 9x21 and the 9x23 all have the same taper and can be reloaded with the same FL dies.

[@bigal2696]

Your content is excellent. It is information that is both interesting and unavailable anywhere else.

[@larrybassett5559]

Dick I've always wanted a 1911 in .38 Super, you've convinced me, Good video and information, thank you.

[@kevmoful]

Have to say I find your videos informative and if nothing else you speak from experience. Gotta find a replacement for Mr Harrell and I believe you will now be what I listen to as I reload . Reloading 45acp during this one , I too believe in it .

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Comparing me to Paul Harrel puts me in mighty good company.

[@johncoleman2495]

I've been preaching the gospel of the hot 9mm/.38 pistol since I discovered the .38 super at 20 years old! And the 1911 as well! When Colt/Winchester announced the 9x23 Winchester I thought all my dreams had been answered! I can remember like yesterday reading about Cooper's work with the cut down .223 cases as well as your article in handloader! It wasn't long before I also realized that 9x23 could be fired from .38super barrels of modern design and I was off and running. Eventually having a .38 super Springfield factory comp rebarreled to 9x23 with a Nowlin match barrel. When the .357 SIG came out I was dismissive at first thinking it can't do anything in a 1911 that 9x23 and 9x25 don't already do and the 9x23 holds an extra round. Then I shot one and had to have it too! I now have both a 4.25" and 5" SIG nightmare fastback and love them as well! These are cartridges that are too good to die! I handload both of these cartridges to their full potential and regularly carry both in my commander size pistols and believe they're the pinnacle of self defense in a service size handgun. I've even built a 9x23 on a .38 super EEA witness with an 18 round capacity.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Sad thing is the original Winchester 9x23 brass, which looks like cut-down .223 rifle brass when you section them, is almost impossible to find. The Starline 9x23 stuff is probably adequate but doesn't look as strong to me.

[@johncoleman2495]

​@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I have 1300 rounds of soft points and 550 rounds of silver tips, about 900-1000 once fired brass, 350+/- brass i've reloaded multiple times and have yet to need to trim any and probably in the ballpark of 2000 new old stock primed brass....all Winchester. And I have close to 1000 rounds of my hand loads with 125gr gold dots and 124gr XTP's

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

@@johncoleman2495 You should be good for a few days.

[@johncoleman2495]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb 🤣 I think so! I did something similar with.40 super gathering all the factory triton ammo I could find....now I'm laying in a stockpile of .357 SIG factory ammo....

[@highxj]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb The original Win brass is for sure tougher, but the Starline is perfectly adequate in modern design barrels with good chamber support...unlike the old style Colt two piece feed ramp design. Those need the WW brass for top end loads.

[@williamzeller294]

A fascinating dissertation, Mr. F. I thoroughly enjoyed it. That's coming from a gun background that may be similar- Commanders, my first gun (a steel .45 Colt Combat Commander in 1973 that I still have and shoot) and still going on through the years with several others. The super 9s are very intriguing. I am fortunate to have a 1951 Colt Super .38 (as they called them then) to go with a 1947 Super .38 Government Model. The Super Commander holds a dear spot and I've always thought it would be a superior carry gun, excepting that my .45 Commanders have a hold on me that won't break. I've loaded enormous amounts of .38 Super but for a defensive load have relied on Buffalo Bore and Sig V-Crown loads. This Commander still has the early pencil barrel yet is quite accurate. Best of all, it's 100% reliable. I've never seen it stop, even with lead-bullet semi-wadcutter reloads (don't bother trying that at home). Then I lucked into a largish supply of Winchester-brand 9x23, hundreds of FMJ 125 loads and a precious box of the old Silvertip 125s. The Silvertips clock a solid 1450 out of my stock gun, but I know that's irresponsible to do with the original barrel. I keep planning to get a 9x23 barrel but still haven't gotten around to it. Additionally, I have a TK Custom .38 Super conversion cylinder for my L-frame S&W 586 that I used to use in ICORE. I have run the Winchester 9x23 in it and darn if it doesn't yield about 1425fps in the four-inch wheelgun. The Winchester brass is said to be vastly superior to the other brands out there, and my experience agrees. I have not seen any bulging or rings or anything with them. I have another perspective on the Super and 9x23. Being the proper length for the 1911 platform, unlike 9mm Parabellum, it runs absolutely wonderfully. My wife used to be a sponsored USPSA competitor and had her sponsor gunsmith Rich Dettelhouser build her two Single Stack Division .38 Supers. Those guns are beyond superb. The #1 gun, which she named "Nacho", has the smoothest-racking slide I have ever experienced on a handgun. She did two full seasons of every-week matches with it, including Areas and Nationals, and even including practice work, and it never, ever malfunctioned. That's a testament to Rich's incredible skill; your friend the late Mr. Heine would most likely have agreed, as he knew Rich and his guns well. Honestly, as much as I love the .45 ACP, I have to admit that our various Supers seem to run more smoothly than do my .45s. It's a delightful sensation as it cycles like butter on ice. There's one aspect of the 9x23 that is a concern for personal protection, though: the blast, flash, and concussion are very strong, perhaps enough to be a problem indoors, especially in the dark. I've experimented with shooting a 2-inch .357 Magnum in IDPA dark house stages and by the end of the stage, I could barely see the targets even with the flashlight. Blinding and deafening. I worry the 9x23 could be the same. Apologies for the length, but the long nines are a special caliber for me (and the Missus).

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Great post. Dick Heinie is still alive and well, I would have heard if otherwise.

[@williamzeller294]

Good grief, don't know where I heard that but what a terrible faux pas!@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb

[@lukedemello2077]

Great channel you have here!!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks

[@theepicgamerultimate4831]

You opened up a lot of nostalgic names; Content, Hatcher and Cooper. My opinion of the G22 gen4 40 S&W is this, I went through the police academy a S&W model 10 and carried it on duty up until the transition to semi-autos and I always qualified as expert with it. Then came the DA/SA semi-autos, I will just say I qualified and I never could adjust to 2 different trigger pulls. Then Glock a 19 gen3 I was once again qualifying comfortably. Next came one gun and one caliber for the agency, the Glock 22, all I heard was the 40 S&W was a hard recoiling caliber, in short I qualified 98% as good as my revolver scores, my best ever for a police duty sidearm. Unfortunately for me in my retirement a texting driver changed my life. I had spinal neck surgery and sustained permanent nerve damage and had problems retracting the slide forcing me to sell my G22. I replaced it with a G17 gen3 and I believe it's the single spring guide rod that enables me to retract the slide easier. But like you I believe in the law of physics a 9mm is not equally effective as the 40 or 45 as most gun writing keyboard warriors claim.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks for your service and sorry about your injury, a similar story to my wife's accident and neck/spinal surgeries. There are many reasons why people choose different calibers, but your slide racking issue points to another reason for not carrying a larger, hard recoiling caliber, their recoil springs need to be heavier. If the G17 gets to be too much, you might look at a S&W EZ pistol in 9mm, specially designed for an easier to operate slide.

[@theepicgamerultimate4831]

More often than not, my 2 EDC sidearm is a 5 shot snubby in 38spcl. if I feel the need arises for more capacity, such as going to a place I can't avoid it's my Sig P250 subcompact 9mm, which I refer to it as a hu-caoacity revolver.

[@ronalddunne3413]

Very interesting and informative. Your way of speaking holds the attention- you make a good teacher. Your breadth of knowledge speaks for itself, thanks for posting! You almost convince me to get into 9x23 or .357SIG, which is saying a lot...😜

[@arapahoetactical7749]

Great video! I've been involved with shooting, training and some competition for over 50 years and I learned a lot from this one. Thanks and keep up the great work.

[@SquallWulfhart]

Would love to hear more about your thoughts on kinetic energy, since you mentioned it, and it's generally the standard people go by. I generally look at momentum to get a better idea of how powerful a given round is and what kind of recoil to expect. I'm no expert, but a lot of those light for caliber rounds, like a 125gr 357sig, tend to have their speed sapped pretty fast and that is where they have expansion issues. Lucky Gunner has a video on it a few years back. 45acp 230gr HST +p was still expanding at 100 yards, 357 sig was basically an fmj at that point.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Kinetic energy is velocity focused. Double the velocity you quadruple the energy. With momentum, if you double the bullet weight you double the momentum. Bullet performance trumps KE, in my opinion.

[@michaelestrada2772]

I’d love to also hear your take on the 44mag/spl for edc. Thanks again for sharing, I look forward to your video on the 10mm!

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

An upcoming video will discuss the "4" caliber revolvers and the .44 Special is about the best of them all IMHO.

[@Paladin1873]

In the past I experimented with several 9mm x 23 Largo pistols. I called them the poor man's 38 Super because they were inexpensive. But the 9mm Largo cartridge itself is weakly loaded to 38 ACP performance levels, well below its theoretical potential. The same can be said about the very similar 9x23 Steyr. This is a necessity because many of the early pistol designs could not handle the higher pressure of 38 Super. I did convert some of my 1911 type Largos to 38 Super, but my preferred plan had been to work up 9mm Largo loads that would mimic 38 Super. This proved unfeasible because at the time the only ammo available was Berdan primed. It might be doable today, but the 9x 23 Winchester case is much stronger and able to handle at least 50% more pressure, however I doubt these guns can handle it and I'm not brave enough to find out.

[@tacd962]

Thank you sir

[@RebelByNature]

Great video, learned an awful lot. To be honest, was not very familiar with any of those beyond being aware of their existence. That said, when I heard you talking about your lt wt commander as something a little easier to conceal, it caught my attention. Carry techniques generally would be a topic I would be very interested in hearing your views on. Personally, I find it hard to imagine that I would find it comfortable to conceal carry a commander sized weapon, in all weather (warmer days too) where you are not necessarily going to have some kind of extra long sleeve jacket, heavy shirt or whatever to make it easier to conceal. I tend to go for IWB with sub compact 9.

[@TommyRibs]

I have a 5” Government 9mm 1911. I just had a 9x23 Clark Barrel fit to it. I got some springs from Wolf, and some .38 Super Magazines. I can’t get any ammo anywhere for it unfortunately. But I will keep looking.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Winchester still catalogs a 125 Silvertip defense load, but finding it will be tough. Buffalo Bore loads several variations available direct or Midway USA lists 9x23 ammo. Starline makes 9x23 Comp brass, which may not be quite as strong as Winchester brass, but the supply of 9x23 Winchester brass seems to have dried up. You should be able to use .38 Super +P ammo in your 9x23 barrel ... I use 9x23 loads in my .38 Super barrel, the two cases are almost identical in outside dimensions.

[@linkbond08]

17:27 just a point about making 357sig cases out of .40sw. You are correct it is too short, if you compare it to normal 357sig brass, however it's not too short for function, you can use it, and load it to max pressure, with no issues according to my experience. I don't have a case trimmer for 357 sig nor do I want to buy expensive 357sig or 10mm brass, so I just buy 40sw cartridges, remove the projectiles, dump the powder, resize to 357sig, and build from there, reloading is fun.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I have never trimmed any handgun cartridge for length, never needed to. Haven't heard of anyone necking down .40 brass to use in a .357 Sig, glad it works for you.

[@linkbond08]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I know I said "no issues" and I haven't had issues shooting the things, the only thing I've had issues with is the neck, because the 357 has already a short neck leaving it shorter increases the risk of having bullet setback, I do factory crimp all my cases and only had 3 instances of setback in the 1000 rounds I've made, and all 3 happened in the first 200 rounds, I guess I'm getting better at crimping. Thanks for covering the _"9mm magnums"_

[@ehornad]

9x23 win 🏆

[@hubertjoyce4542]

This is great info. Really enjoy and appreciate your videos, thank you.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks.

[@carolkmc2855]

Dick, you stated that you do not recomend handholds for self defense use, is that because of lawsuits or ammo quality? Many of not most of the peace officers who also were gun writers used their handholds on duty even when it was against the rules. I make note of these bits of data as I was quite the handloading experimenter in my younger days, By the way you do great work and make great videos.

[@876mpr]

I think the .38 Super is the most criminally underrated and under used pistol cartridge. The industry should standardize on the Super Comp format. It’s not quite as powerful as the .357 Sig, but it’d have more capacity potential if that’s important to you and there’s no fussing with those bottleneck cases. Do you know what issue number of Handloader your article is in?

[@danav3387]

The bottleneck design of the 357 Sig also leads to more reliability in feeding

[@tahertz8544]

10mm is coming back , gun tech has caught up. I Dig my XDE 3.8 . GREAT VIDEO. Did you ever get a chance check on what was going on in nogales? Crap is escalating exponentially on that Texas border. What do you think and do you have any experience by 9/25 Dillion?

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I read up on the Nogales thing and have a former training partner who lives not far away, she is checking to see how much is hype ... I have no experience with the 9x25. It was a way to make "major" in IPSC competition with a 9mm bullet, but then we found out you could do that with a .38 Super a lot easier once strong brass became available. Bottleneck pistol cartridges have never been highly popular in the US.

[@CarolinaRimfire]

Thanks for the video! This was very interesting... For those of us on a budget, I think Rock Island still makes a 38 super 1911. I've seen them out there but never have owned one. Thanks again for your hard work on this presentation.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I'm sure you could tell, the "Super 9mm's" fascinate me.

[@CarolinaRimfire]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb absolutely! I've always had a fascination with 38 super in particular. I'd love to have a 1911 chambered for it. Unfortunately, my unreasonable lending institution tells me that my mortgage payment is due every single month... Can you believe that??

[@michaelrocole7174]

Fascinating

[@nelsondoan8271]

Just stumbled on your channel, been binge watching for the last couple of days, it’s great! Was trying to remember why your name seemed so familiar, must have been because I read that article in handloader, and started using 571 in my super. Only shot open for two or three years,optics and mounts couldn’t stand the pace back then and with a young family it got too rich for me, so went standard. But my eyes don’t work well with irons now, so two years ago returned to open. I’m shooting 9major in a 2011 type. Tried a lot of powders and have really been surprised with CFE pistol. Based on my experience from the old days, it should not be able to do what it does. It provides high velocities, easily making major and a bit more if needed for the cushion. There is no sign of peakiness, and it acts very linear as charges increase. The downside is not big enough powder charges to work the comp as well as the optimum powder choices, nearly a third less. Of course every barrel is different, but I’ve got two that are close in behaviour. i can get a lot of loads out of a pound, and even if i can't move or shoot as fast as the old days, my accuracy is almost as good as ever with the optic.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Thanks for the kind words. I don't have a lot of experience with CFE Pistol, but so far it exceeds almost any other powder in the calibers I have tried.

[@blueeyephil]

Enjoying your videos. I bought a used SIG P226 years ago because it had both the 357 SIG and 40 S&W factory barrels. Was all excited about the 357 SIG at first. I reload and it's a bit tougher to reload for. Brass is a bit hard to get, especially, once fired. And you have to buy specific bullets for it, not just normal 9mm. So I basically gave up on it, and just went with the 40 S&W. And you are correct about the following of the 357 SIG. I see it on various boards. It is a great carry load, if you aren't concerned about the cost. Shoot the 357 SIG occasionally but not all that often. Oh, and at least for the P226, the magazine is one and the same for 357 SIG and 40 S&W.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I've never loaded a bottleneck pistol cartridge, I wondered if it has issues?

[@blueeyephil]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb If I remember, the neck is pretty short and there is a possibility of bullet seback unless using the correct profile bullet. Just more of a pain to load vs a 9mm or 40 S&W. Plus searching for 357 brass on a range full of 9mm is kind of a pain.

[@headglitch7003]

40 S&W and 357 Sig are the only two auto pistol calibers worth carrying, They may be harder to find and cost more but my family is worth the extra time and fifty bucks a year. Better to spend the money and time on the best training and carry ammo and cheap out on that extra pair of shoes you really don't need anyway.

[@JamesFoster-y9b]

Dubble tap 125 gr I shot out of my Glock 33 gen 4 it had a 5 round ave of 1473 fps 602 foot pounds !! My Glock 35 with .357 sig barrel 5.8 inch will run that same dubble tap load at 1602 fps with 706 foot pounds! 115 gr dubble tap is at 1756 with 787 foot pounds 😊 I love the 357 sig Great video sir keep up the good work! And thank u for your service!

[@joejones1779]

I just purchased a LEO trade in glock 35. And replaced the stock barrel with a alpha wolf threaded 5.8 inch .357sig and love it. So I appreciate seeing the chrono results in your response. I also carry Double Tap 125gr controlled expansion. Again , thank for the info. If you have any more ammo recommendations please feel free to respond and let me know.

[@JamesFoster-y9b]

@@joejones1779 any time man glad I could help man 👍

[@jaytowne8016]

The Spanish made some interesting 1911 derived designs with some nice features. These were made during the 1950 s and 1960 s. I believe it was a 9 x 23 of some sort. You can use 38 Super Comp brass to reload ammo for them. It can be a hair hotter than 38 Super. My wife has one, and shoots it better than she does any other pistol she owns. Since she has rheumatoid arthritis the grip and recoil properties actually agree with her. Any factory ammo out there we should use?

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I believe you are referring to the 9x23 Largo, which was nowhere near as powerful as the 9x23 Winchester. The .38 Super Comp brass or 9x23 Winchester brass will probably fit well enough to reload it, but I would tread very carefully with high pressure loads.

[@jaytowne8016]

Yes we had no intention to load the ammo to a high energy label... We finally found so 9 mm Largo loaded for defensive purposes instead of FMJ so I think we have our fix. It comes in about the same as 38 Super on the foot pounds.

[@spitfire19692]

I Love Your Videos, Very Insightfull

[@Watchdog_McCoy_5.7x28]

Can you make a full length deep dive video about my favorite caliber 5.7x28?

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I've had several requests to look at the 5.7. I have some experience with the round in both the FN pistol and subgun. Very easy to shoot both, but terminal performance is questionable. I'll try to find one to play with ... very scarce around my locale.

[@Watchdog_McCoy_5.7x28]

@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb thanks man

[@justinkayz8995]

Glad I found your channel

[@alexsweet8585]

Don't forget the 9x25 Dillon and 356 TSW

[@michaelmorgan9973]

I always heard the .357 Sig beat-up the 9mm/.40 S&W frames fairly quickly and replacement cost was prohibitive. Just hear/say on my part.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I just spent a couple of days with an old colleague who worked at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center - Artesia, NM at the end of his career. He saw a lot of .357 Sigs on the range there, often in the hands of air marshalls. He said it was rough on pistols and not pleasant to shoot in small pistols.

[@romeolimagolf]

I wish you included the .356TSW, as well. It'd be interesting to see how it compares.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

The TSW and the .357 Sig came out the same year. The handguns annual editor at Guns & Ammo assigned me to review the TSW and another guy got the Sig. The TSW was about .030" longer overall length than a 9mm Luger, the longest a 9mm-sized action could handle, so really had only a tiny increase in powder space. It was bad idea and died a VERY fast death, maybe it could better be described as stillborn.

[@YellowHammer26]

👍👍well done, thanks

[@bullpup33]

These all fantastic rounds. However, the INDUSTRY is really pushing 9mm parabellum. Sig doesn't even make 357 Sig anymore. Factory load 10mm and 40 S&W loads are suspect. Mexico still makes 38 super I believe. The one negative about 357 sig I have heard, no personal experience, is they are not pleasant to shoot. Either way if your going 357 go with original Sig P229.

[@travhammer]

The last time Coop was here at MCRC, he had an CZ type pistol, and he shot hell out'a that thing, I know 400+ rnd's. and each 223 case had a fat bulge. He tried my M193 case 's and says, damn no bulde. I told him, oh yes there will be, cause u will ad more 296 untill he gets the case to buldge. Last I ever saw him. RIP. ya old tight wad.

[@bigbpdx]

What about a specific comparison between 357 Sig vs 38 Super? Hopefully, including gel tests

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

When comparing current factory ammo, the .357 Sig wins hands down and that is why I said if you want a Super 9, get the Sig. The .38 Super is capable of matching the Sig, but no factory will make such .38 Super loads. I will load my .38 Super the way I want it, but I cannot responsibly recommend that others follow my lead.

[@bigbpdx]

@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb thanks!

[@JohnnyBallou]

Great video! But didn't convert this heretic who favors .32 HR and .32 rim fire(long),and Trail Boss powder! Sorry! Was raised on 8mm Lebel revolver!

[@johnhild-pt4qm]

I think Hornady has reloading tools

[@joeleonetti8976]

Thanks. Enjoying the series. How to you compare the 357 Sig to the 40 S&W? Brother and I have debated that topic a number of times. Curious to see your thoughts.

[@JohnTBlock]

Hey, Dick - would the 9×23 fit a large frame Glock, or similar? Just wondering.....

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Lengthwise a 20/21 size pistol would be fine, but Glock doesn't make a slide for that frame with a 9mm.38 Super breechface, so the extractor would be a problem. With a custom slide, yes.

[@gregosborne2041]

What about the 9mm Win Mag?

[@possumpopper89]

When you worked up your 38 super loads, did your pistol have the old unsupported chamber or did you use a more recent ramped style barrel?

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Original frame/barrel feed ramp, I've never had a 1911 with a ramped barrel. In fact, the frame on my .38 Super is a .45 which is probably a little looser than a dedicated .38 frame. Blowouts were caused by weak cases, not the feed ramp. You can never get full support in a semi-auto pistol. The myths about Glock 10mm pistols having bad (unsupported barrels) is BS. That problem is caused by a couple of boutique ammo companies who are loading 10mm ammo WAY above SAMMI specs.

[@terryhopkins8059]

Hello, what is you recommended 9mm ammo to be used with a 1911 Commander for concealed carry..?

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

There are many good choices available today. Jacketed hollow point designs from Speer, Federal, Winchester, Hornady, Black Hills Ammo, etc. are virtually all good choices. The all-copper hollow points made by Barnes and CorBon (loaded by Black Hills Ammo and others) often outperform conventional lead-core hollow points. The Extreme Defense and Controlled Fracturing all-copper designs from Lehigh Defense (loaded by Lehigh, Black Hills Ammo, Underwood Ammo and others) are my personal choice in 9mm.

[@tomg3903]

Why did you say hand loaded ammo is no good for concealed carry ?

[@jason_m_schmidt622]

I would say honorable mention .356tsw but I’d be splitting hairs with the 9x23 😂

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I did a review of the TSW for Guns & Ammo handgun annual the year it came out and it did NOT impress. It died one of the quickest deaths I've seen in the ammo industry. It couldn't begin to match the performance of the 9x23. It had far less powder capacity than the .38 S.

[@Privat3Kag3]

Not even a mention of 9x25 dillon huh?

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I have no experience with the 9x25 and outside of a short life in USPSA competition, it has about disappeared ... though I'm sure someone will disagree with that comment.

[@SDMacMan]

Why is it your opinion that handloaded ammo is not a good idea for self defense?

[@spencermichaelson1882]

9x25 Dillon in a full size gun is getting wayyyyyyy more velocity than the sig

[@FoulPet]

Manufacturers are dropping 40 and 357. I don't see them supporting 9x25 anytime soon or anything else but 9mm. I'm surprised they even decided to humor the 10mm market.

[@thomasmills3934]

Why do cops talk about their choice of duty weapon if they are assigned one?

[@EFalt]

This fuddy duddy makes cool videos

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I've been called worse!

[@EFalt]

@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb the channel is great im glad I found it

[@44SWAGNUM-MAGA5]

i thought the pandemic buying gave the 357 sig more life but i guess not, 327 fed is on the way down too i think, only 10mm is surviving and making a comeback.

[@danielgreen6547]

10mm clearly is being pushed by the major manufacturers and gun industry as a whole. WHY that is, I really don't know. Not saying 10mm is bad by any means either....it is just kind of weird that it's 9mm 9mm 9mmm everywhere (and to a lesser extent .380) and....10mm.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

I think the rebirth of the 10mm is being driven by hunters in bear country, not by ammo manufacturers. It fills a need, deep penetration with controllable recoil.

[@danielgreen6547]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jbInteresting. Definitely looking forward to your next video on the subject!

[@44SWAGNUM-MAGA5]

@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb i think your right, alot of the 10mm is loaded down and i think only the reloaders can use it to its true potential. I my self want a glock 23 for black bears and roaming pack of big dogs that get loose from weed farms here in california, I dont think I need that extra 300 fps so i think 40. S&W will do. was really hoping 327 would make it and survive tho hot little round. thank you for your videos, sir.

[@montyherren26]

I'd like to get a 357 sig but I'm done buying guns in cartridges that go obsolete way to soon.

[@rexhinlo3398]

The .38 Super is pretty accurate after all: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qp6TgXysqKdsraM

[@richvest7212]

Ain't happening, I've loaded 110 grain 357's in the 1800 fps range

[@FoulPet]

Can you drop some powder and grain data

[@greybone777]

Federal plus ➕️ plus ➕️ 115 hp at 1300 plus fps. I have 3 loading manuals and i can't verify any of your claims.H110 and 296 are NOT IDENTICAL. CLOSE BUT DEFINITELY NOT IDENTICAL. please. I can verify this especially in newer manuals. I haven't seen a box of 38 super anywhere for years 60 dollars a box like 357 sig. Hornaday # 7 manual doesn't support any of this information.

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

Try looking on the Hodgdon online loading data site. H110/296 have identical loads & pressures for a given cartridge bullet combination. Yes, the .38 Super is a niche cartridge for handloaders only, to get maximum performance.

[@greybone777]

1700 fps with a 125 grain bullet is400fps over max. You didn't say your charge weight. I'm calling 🐂💩

[@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb]

When you say "over max" I assume you are quoting a reloading manual for the .38 Super. Published load data for the .38 Super is generally quoted at a VERY low working pressure because of the well-known headspace and case-strength issues. My loads were based on reading pressure signs from the primers and expansion of the fired casings. Since the 9x23 Winchester has a SAAMI pressure of 55,000 psi, a 1911 or other long-action semi-auto pistol can handle the pressure. The unsupported portion of the case over the feed ramp is the weakest part of the equation.

[@johnhild-pt4qm]

Reloading dies